Thursday, January 22nd, 2009...8:23 am
What Could Have Been
Over at The Painted Area M. Haubs has provided the basketball public with a hoop viewing guide that runs through the 28th. It’s a helpful resource, and worth linking for that reason alone. But it caught my attention for another reason entirely.
While blurbing Saturday’s Euroleague contest between Tau Ceramica and DKV Joventut, Haub’s makes this passing comment, “Spurs draftee Tiago Splitter stars for Tau - S.A. sure could use him.” And he’s right.
I’ve tried not to dwell on Splitter’s signing with Tau. What’s done is done. But it’s pretty widely understood that the Spurs current roster is short one productive big man. In yesterday’s Per Diem, for example, John Hollinger wrote, “San Antonio probably needs another quality big before the trade deadline before it can outmatch the likes of a healthy Jazz or Rockets team, let alone the Lakers.” Splitter would have been an ideal fit on several levels: his rebounding, scoring, interior D, ability to guard perimeter bigs, etc.. It’s a shame.
As things currently stand, I see the Spurs as the best of class…of the NBA’s second tier. It’s not difficult to imagine San Antonio joining Cleveland, Boston, L.A. and Orlando as the league’s elite by the time the playoffs role in, but they’ve work to do between now and then. If they had Tiago Splitter…sigh. What’s done is done.
39 Comments
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:45 am
On the subject of players we might bring in….
What about Sean Williams of the Nets? A young, athletic, shot-blocking big…sounds like what the doctor ordered.
Or something more drastic: Bowen and Kurt Thomas to the Wizards for Antawn Jamison…. any takers on that trade?
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:55 am
The biggest problem the Spurs have is the ownership’s refusal to spend more money than they have to. Splitter is just another Scola. I don’t have any information in front of me but I would bet the Spurs have one of the lowest payrolls.
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:55 am
Chris,
First, check out ESPN’s Trade Machine for why something like Bowen and Thomas for Jamison is impossible.
Sean Williams is a name many a Spurs fans lips, but there are a couple problems. To start, he is a head case. Google for Marc Stein recent Daily Dime from the D-League showcase in Orem for more on this. The other problem is that he-and I’m just going on what I’ve heard-is that he doesn’t function well within systems. He’s kind of a free roamer on offense and defense. The Spurs require that all their players function within the system. It just wouldn’t work. From a skill-set standpoint, I’m with you. But it’s doubtful the Spurs make a move for Williams.
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:14 am
Mason,
I don’t agree. Holt may be the poorest owner in the league. It’s not that he’s not willing, it’s that he’s not capable. That having been said, he always allows Pop and Buford to straddle the tax line, he’s violated it at points, and he took a big chance by purchasing the Toros. The Scola thing was unfortunate, and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth, even now. But, as the kiddies like to say, it’s a business.
Splitter and Scola are actually different cases. Scola was a cap dump, you’re correct. But the CBA requires that the Spurs pay Splitter according to the rookie scale. They would have offered him more to play in the NBA, but they couldn’t. That’s not on them. That’s on an ill-conceived CBA. You follow?
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:51 am
So, when Splitter’s contract w/ Tau expires, are the Spurs still limited to offering Splitter the rookie scale?
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Yes. Depressing, eh?
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
since diop is not in dallas anymore…
how about kurt thomas and udoka for diop?
diop is one of the few bigs that gave timmy trouble in the playoffs a few years ago.
i think the kid can fit into the spurs system.
discuss
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Why would the Bobcats trade a Diop? They just obtained him. And besides, for my money, Thomas is a better player. Diop is overpaid and his contract seriously messes with the 2010 strategy. I’ll pass.
I open to persuasion, though. Counter point?
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:23 pm
I actually would like to have Rasho back. He’s a guy that you can throw on offensively minded bigs. He’s a legit 7 foot and he’s averaging almost 9 points a game this season. I don’t know what his contract status is. I don’t know what you would have to give up to get him. Just wanted to see what you guys thought.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:33 pm
The Splitter situation makes me nautious. The NBA needs to take a look at the CBA and the implications of young players making considerably more money overseas. The rookie pay scale is a joke.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Hell-no to Rash-o!
Should bring back Malik and Mohammed while we’re at it?
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm
just checked Rasho’s contract status. He’s making a little over 8 million this year and his contract expires after this season. expiring contracts are pretty valuable. I doubt the Spurs could get him. They’d have to give up too much in return I’d assume.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
For contract status information, I suggest http://www.shamsports.com.
If you scroll down a bit, you can read some about Rasho in our most recent At Center Court. We talked with Tom Lewis.
On Rasho: expiring deal, good fit, but he makes 8.4. You can try your hand at the Trade Machine, but I don’t see a deal. Report back if a moment of genius strikes you.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Ok, so let’s go get a young athletic big man that can block shots. hmmmmm…i’m sure there are a lot of those out there that we can get pretty cheap. Look, I’m not saying Rasho would be some kind of savior but we need more size at the 5 position. Duncan is the only legit center on the Spurs. We need someone like Rasho to guard Gasol, Yao Ming, Shaq, Bynum, etc. He’s not more of an offensive liablity than Oberto or Thomas.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Trey,
I’m with you on the need, but not so much on the “I’m sure there are a lot of those out there that we can get pretty cheap…” part. Any suggestions? I ask sincerely. It’s not an easy solve.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
my last post was in response to Gianluca, not you Timothy.
I still think we have a shot of beating the Lakers if Manu is playing like he did last regular season without making a trade.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I was being sarcastic in response to Gianluca.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
The world suddenly makes sense again…
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Sorry for the confusion. Sarcasm can be hard to understand in writing sometimes.
I don’t think the Spurs can make another Nazr Mohammed trade again because Isiah Thomas is no longer running the Knicks. We fleeced the Knicks in that trade. I doubt we’ll be able to fleece some other team this year. I’m sure the Spurs front office guys are looking at every scenario to make the Spurs better. That’s why they get paid the big bucks.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Well, I am headed home but I just wanted to say that I discovered this blog through the TrueHoop network thing. I haven’t read a whole lot of the posts, but I’m impressed with what I’ve seen so far. I love discussing Spurs basketball. Especially with Spurs fans that are half way intelligent. I can’t stand the idiot fan. I’ve got the blog on my favorites and will add this to my regular rotation of websites. Thanks.
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:30 pm
So any foreign player drafted can refuse to accept their rookie scaled contract (in order to earn more playing overseas)?
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Thanks for the love, Trey. It’s good to have smart fans too.
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Not quite. Only first round draft picks are subject to the scale. This is why some international entries asked teams not to draft them until the second round last summer. Couple this rule with the diminishing dollar…perfect storm for Euro teams to lock up their own prospects.
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:06 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=83~846~385&teams=27~27~24&te=&cash=
Trade Machine says Bowen and Thomas for Jamison would work.
Moreover, it would make sense for both teams if Wizards management decides to retool, dump a big contract, and bring in some defenders for a defenseless team.
For the Spurs it makes sense because Jamison is a 20 pt a night scorer and a trooper.
I have heard those things about Sean Williams before, but the talent is there, and there’s not a better locker room to mature in then the Spurs…
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Chris,
Hmm. I didn’t know Jamison’s salary off the top of my head and I just assumed he made more. But unfortunately, I doubt that the Wiz would even return the call unless the Spurs were offering more talent. Jamison is too good, even in a cap dump situation. Washington is not taking back 10 cents on the dollar. Jamison is a picture perfect fit, though. You made my heart swoon for a moment there.
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:11 pm
As a big fan of sarcasm, I can appreciate what you’re saying Trey.
I’m right there with you, Dwight Howard is not falling out of the sky and is definitely not playing for our D-League affiliate.. I’m talking to you Ian Mahini.
The tough truth to swallow for Spurs fans is the realization that we are in this situation because of our success.
We took our formula of draft late, sign veterans, act fiscally responsibly and were wildly successful (4 rings). Why mess with what works?
But the league has caught up. Our reliable veterans now just look old and slow.
Hill and Mason Jr. are steps in the right direction, but until we can infuse more youth(anything under 32) into our mix of veterans we are asking a lot from guys who are on their last legs.
It all comes full circle to the fact that we don’t have expiring bad contracts as trade bait and all of our assets are integral parts to our success.
So, what do we do?
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Yes, Finley, Bowen, Thomas, and Oberto (maybe, I haven’t seen him play much this year) have all slipped a notch from last year to this. Finley can still get hot on occasion and hit a clutch shot, but he disappears for long stretches, and relies on his jumper - for good or ill.
Udoka is now useless and sitting on the bench. What happened with him?
I wish the Spurs had a guy like Julian Wright or Hakim Warrick or Thaddeus Young: a long 3/4 who can dunk and defend.
January 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 am
I’ve read that Chicago is ready to part with any player not named Rose or Deng in order to rebuild NOW. I had always assumed that Noah was on the “not for trade” list so far — I’m wondering if this is still the case since Chicago is playing him more recently and I’m not sure whether they really plan to give him 30 minutes for the rest of the year and starting center responsibilities or whether, maybe, they are actually showcasing him (and I’d say quite successfully). What would Chicago be interested in? Some veteran leadership that Kurt Thomas could provide and a back-up point guard?
(just for fun and I’m obviously no Trade Machine wizard, but Gordon + Noah vs Oberto + Thomas + Udoka + Vaughn works out - of course only on the financial side
January 23rd, 2009 at 6:26 am
true, the bobcats wouldn’t trade him since they just got him…
but crazier things have happened in this league (p.gasol trade).
have bonner “start”.
let diop come off the bench with manu.
he just needs to learn to pick and roll/pop with manu.
his jumper could prob use some work.
but defensively he’s got length and shotblocking skills to help (timmy) in the paint. he needs to stay out of foul trouble though.
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:03 am
Will,
There are a few players from the Bulls the Spurs would be happy to get their hands on, but you’ve got to give to get. Chicago, to my knowledge, is not ready to hit the cap dump reset button. They’ll want to trade talent for talent. And, if possible, I’d think the Spurs would want to keep Kurt Thomas. He’s the first big off the pine and is playing very well the last month.
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:06 am
dtm,
I really doubt that Diop would be a good fit. The Spurs, for example, run as much pick and pop as they do pick and roll. Diop can’t hit from anyway, and defenses would sag way off him. Thomas and Oberto both have effective pick and pop games and are just as good rolling to the hoop. Diop has natural shot blocking on them, but not enough to make me want him. And then there is still the issue of his bloated contract…
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:09 am
Why would any team want to give us a quality player for guys that never come off our bench?
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 am
Tim, you may know the answer to this question. Was the summer that the Spurs traded Scola to the Rockets, the same summer the Spurs signed Oberto to a 3 year extension? Everyone talks about the Scola trade as terrible for the Spurs but I think they signed Oberto to a multi-year deal that summer. That makes the Scola situation even worse. Oberto and Scola are roughly the same size, but Scola just happens to be a much better offensive player and 3 or 4 years younger.
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:23 am
Oberto is not really the issue. The Spurs signed Elson and Butler (of John Hollinger fame) in 06-7. By the next summer, they had to find a taker on Butler’s contract because he was such a massive flop and put them in tax trouble. The only way to do this was by adding Scola to the package. FWIW: the Spurs also approached Robertas Javtokas in 06, but rumor says he wanted a bit more money and guaranteed minutes, so the Spurs took the deal off the table. He’s a free agent this summer, so you wonder…
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:29 am
I just did a little research and Oberto opted out of the final year of his deal in the summer of 2007. The Spurs traded Butler who would have made $2.5 million the next season and Scola. They then resigned Oberto and I’m pretty sure he makes 3.5 million a year. So, had they have kept butler and signed Scola to a rookie scale deal wouldnt’ that be around the 3.5 million that they are paying to Oberto? the link below talks about the Scola trade.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/MYSA071307_01D_BKNspurs_trade_35d9aa1_html.html
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:39 am
Trey,
Yes, you’re more or less correct about the numbers. But Popovich was bearish on whether or not Scola would fit in their system next to Duncan. I could be wrong, but my sense is that he preferred Oberto to Scola. Maybe you say they misjudged talent, which seems fair, but Oberto was never the issue in Pop and Buford’s mind. What did Scola make his rookie year, and could that number have fit beneath the cap even with Butler’s contract in place of Oberto?
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 am
I see what you are saying too. But what is it that Spurs fans are saying we always need? Another young athletic big man that can score. Scola is that guy and we could have had him for a few years at a real cheap price. How sweet would it be if we had Scola and Splitter right now? Oberto doesn’t get off our bench now and Scola has started in Houston from day one. That makes me sick.
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:46 am
Oh well. It doesn’t matter now. I just think that was a rather large mistake they made in the summer of 2007. Anyways, I got to get some work done. I’ll check back later. I’m already enjoying this blog. Good stuff.
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:57 am
Nevermind what I said earlier about Scola. As Timothy pointed out in an earlier post, only 1st round picks are subject to the rookie scale contract. Scola was drafted in the 2nd round. He signed a 3 year 9.5 million dollar deal with Houston. That is why the Spurs couldn’t keep him.
Leave a Reply