Tuesday, February 10th, 2009...11:32 am
Match-Up of the Night: Ginobili vs. Carter
As the trade deadline approaches, Spurs nation has caught the trade speculation bug. We here at 48 Minutes of Hell are no exception: We have considered nearly every option, from Sheed to Amare to Brad Miller and back again. One name that continues to crop up every so often is Vince Carter. I am saying right here, right now that I am as firmly against acquiring Vince Carter as possible. My reason: He is everything Manu Ginobili isn’t.
When talking about potential trades, Spurs fans oftentimes discuss the transformative powers of our lockerroom. Our team is so mentally and emotionally cohesive that we’ve come to believe no player, however selfish or volatile he may be, could upset our chemisty. And in a sense that is correct. I don’t believe a loose cannon would cause many problems for a team as focused as the Spurs (although I think the effort needed to contain such a character could be draining nonetheless). But I think Vince Carter is a rare exception. Carter is not a genuinely selfish player; he is profoundly lazy.
Yes, Vince Carter was once upon a time the most physically gifted player since Michael Jordan but I believe he lacks the deeply competitive spirit that gives birth to championships. In The Macrophenomenal Pro Basketball Almanac, the Free Darko boys capture this perfectly:
The NBA is littered with big men who find employment by virtue of their bigness. Seven-footers like Erick Dampier and Elden Campbell have always lacked motivation or engagement; Adonal Foyle, a well-liked journeyman with a nose for political activism, plays professional basketball only because he can. Those with a Jordanesque skill set- jumpers, leapers, game-changing scorers -tend to overplay, asserting themselves too much and falling victim to the “selfish” label. While he may bear a superficial resemblance to Jordan, Carter fits more into that archetype of big man passivity than into the mold of ball-hogging game changer.
Compare that to the attitude and intensity of Manu Ginobili. Manu is the one Spur who does not know how to take a play off. No matter how much pain he may be in, he is constantly pressuring Pop to put him in the game. Can you honestly imagine Carter getting in an argument with Pop because he wants to play injured?
To the chagrin of many, a couple of weeks ago I attempted just to discuss the idea that we consider trading Manu if it brought in an All-Star caliber player who we could build future championship squads around. As I’ve thought about the idea more and watched Manu play over the last couple of weeks, the idea sounds increasingly ridiculous. Who out there plays with the same reckless abandon as Manu? Who out there is as averse to failure as El Contusion? Manu is the most dynamic member of our squad; a whirlwind of pure energy the likes of which we will be hardpressed to come across again anytime soon.
The game starts at 7:30 Eastern/6:30 Central. Go Spurs.
11 Comments
February 10th, 2009 at 11:51 am
i read that carter got his teammates together before training camp started to get some pickup games together, to get everyone on the same page.
i also read that carter is understanding the game more an not just relying on highlight dunks as he would at the early stages of his career. he’s gotten smarter, and wiser.
he is keeping the nets in the playoff race in the east.
he understands how to execute and he wants the ball in the clutch closing moments of a game.
the carter you see as selfish, in my opinion, has evolved, especially late last year and this year to become a leader.
at this stage of his career, he like most veterans are only playing for one reason, a ring.
i have mixed emotions about him being a spur… but, if we are in “win now” mode, having carter join the big 3 would be huuuuge, because not only can he can knock down the 3 like mason, he can still get to the rim and finish with contact.
February 10th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Agree with dtm - the “new” Carter is not the selfish Carter of the Raptors days. Never underestimate what the possibility of winning a championship will do to a player (See Ray Allen whose defense improved by leaps and bounds in Boston last year and he never once complained about his far fewer shot attempts).
Carter especially has been rebounding and passing the ball a lot more this year. I’m all for bringing Carter aboard - of course there are cap considerations here that I’m ignoring…
February 10th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
dtm makes good points but can you really buy into that? Carter has already give up twice on his teams (Raptors and last season with the Nets). Also, his contract is a cap killer on almost every sense. Getting him would mean have no enough cap space to fill the roster or even getting Manu to resign once his contract is up. Too much money. Too many years. Too many risks. Not worth it.
Also, I would like to say that “win now” mode is not mutually exclusive with the “build for the future” mode.
February 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
I know a lot of people think Carter has turned a corner this year but for me it’s too little, too late. It’s a “fool me once…” kind of deal.
February 10th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
ginobili / carter is not the match up ill look at tonight. it will be parker v. harris a battle of fast pgs that never gets old. thank god that guy is no longer with the mavs.
February 10th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Carter’s line at the half:
17-2-3 on 7/15 FG
I’m just following the game on GameCast, so please tell me:
Does it look like he is playing his heart out?
Would you say he is advertising himself to the Spurs?
Second half coming up…
February 10th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
When I first read your suggestion of trading Manu, I thought, that would end this team. The Spurs may be Timmy’s team, but Manu is the engine that makes it go. See last year’s playoffs. The Spurs let the Hornets take them to 7 games and the Lakers win in 5. The Hornets would have been dispatched much sooner with a healthy Manu; and the Lakers certainly wouldn’t have had such an easy series.
As far as Vince goes… I wouldn’t want him. Definitely not at his current salary. The only way I think the Spurs should ever consider adding him would be as a cheap FA signing, like after a buyout/waiver. But even then I’m not sure I’d want him.
February 10th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Vince would be a great addition, but not at the cost he is right now. There is nothing on the Spurs roster that would be worth trading for, in the minds of the Nets. They are still looking to make the playoffs. So other than the big three, NJ is not looking to bite on anything. Everything Manu is, Vince is not. They used to call Manu the European Michael Jordan. He had the will, desire, and the talent to win. He won championships and MVP awards. Finally coming to SA, allowed him to use his skills to bring three more titles to SA. Manu is a once in a lifetime find. Nobody had him on their radar. Pop, again, is a genius! He won’t bite on the Vince bait. I am almost positive he has something in the works. Just wait, sit back and relax. Let Pop take care of business…
February 10th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
i don’t think i really have to explain much (even though i may go on a rant here). Vince is just not a Spur, as you have compared him as the anti-Manu. To be honest, we do not need another “ball hog” who needs X amount of shots to get his rhythm, we have enough shooters.
We NEED a big, semi-athletic shot blocker in the playoffs. Bonner/KT/Oberto will only take us so far; all 3 are no shot blockers. None of them are exactly rebounding beasts either. We give up too many offensive boards, leading to too many second chance points. Maybe i’m too spoiled from previous teams where they have consistently been in the top 3 defensive teams in the league, but there is merit to that. It’s the same in every sport, “Defense Wins Championships”.
We can’t rely on our upgraded offense to win playoff series. At some point, an offense will usually falter against a half-decent defensive unit (look at the Suns the past 4-5 years). I am crossing my fingers we can make some magic for a decent//great big (i’d love to see Camby, Rasheed, or Joe Smith, maybe Chandler but i worry about his injury issues), because our window of opportunity will only last until Duncan retires. I hate to say he will be riding off in the sunset in the near future (also with Pop), which saddens me beyond belief.
I still remember being 10 years old and watching the morning news before elementary school and seeing Timmy taking jumpshots in our gym just after getting drafted.
To me, we need to do our best in the next few years to win NOW, as a man//TEAMMATE like Tim does not come around often. This might be a problem with our FO doing their best to not overspend (also the atrocious economy plays a part in all of this), but the time is now to get a 5th championship. The “2010 sweepstakes” might be too late, as all the superstars will most likely not want to go to a very small market like our beloved Spurs.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:35 am
While it’s fair to criticize the prospective trade as too costly in cap space or other Spurs’ players, Carter’s deficiencies as a player are being significantly overstated.
February 11th, 2009 at 5:08 am
Well said, senorglory. Just because Carter is overpaid doesn’t mean he’s washed up. Manu is my favorite Spur, does the little things to win. Carter does the big things to help his team win. They are so close in age and to near-all-star that the only place Manu outshines Carter is a Spurs website. That and I can count on one of them to not get hurt the next time Argentina plays Lithiuania.
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