Did he take three steps after he picked up his dribble, or is it just me? (Reason I bring this up is that LBJ most certainly took 3 steps against the Cs in the “where will amazing happen this year” commercial and most ppl did not even see it!)
He’s planting his right foot as he picks up his dribble and then takes two steps. It’s definitely close but I think most NBA referees wouldn’t interpret that as a travel.
That’s much closer to a travel but it’s still difficult to say. The question lies in where you believe his dribble ends. The ball bounces on the floor for the final time and then he clearly takes three steps. But he has planted his left foot before he has both hands on the ball. Does your dribble end the last time it hits the floor or once you have grabbed it with both hands?
For a really thorough breakdown of this problem, take a look at TrueHoop’s excellent 5-part investigation of traveling in the NBA.
Thanks again. I had actually read it when they had posted it but thanks anyway. There is actually a simpler way to look at it and I dont know if you will agree but count the number of steps the player takes with ball in hand. I think by that metric both Manu and LBJ took 3 steps with ball in hand (no dribbling) and hence by any definition these shd be called as traveling. When they pick up their dribble, as you have correctly pointed out, is hard to define but three steps with ball in hand is easy to spot, right? Thanks for taking the time to discuss.
I agree that is simpler in theory. But given the speed NBA games occur at, I think refs are more likely to count the number of steps after a guy has completely picked up his dribble, i.e. has both hands on the ball. But that’s the problem with all NBA reffing, isn’t it. As compared to the concreteness of violations in other sports, a basketball referee’s job is highly interpretive.
Eric R., you inspired me to watch the Ginobili clip multiple times. All this chatter about “Parker for MVP” has been nice, but the truth remains that we depend on Ginobili to close out games. I hope Vujacic watches this commercial, too, because I can’t wait until he finds himself in Raja’s position.
ChillFan. I dont analyze these when I watch the game, I just enjoy the flow but when they showcase these “amazing moves” in commercials and you watch it dozens of times on TV, you tend to notice other things.
Wasn’t it brought up about a month ago that the rule book actually states that a player gets only one step after they pick up a dribble? I remember reading that and being absolutely confused, because starting basketball from the age of 6, I was always taught the 2 steps rule.
Either way, you guys bring up a good point about traveling being entirely up to the ref’s interpretation. I guess that’s why they want to rewrite the rule in the NBA. I’m all for it. Watching those plays is a thing of beauty (mostly the Manu one), and you’d hate to see it called a violation.
Bryan: The issue is that if you actually look carefully, Lebron and Wade (esp on his spin move where his pivot foot jumps!) travel a lot (no pun intended). Kobe, by contrast, has his footwork under control.
I just re-watched the video to check if he took 3 steps. He didn’t, like Graydon said, he takes only 2 steps after picking up the ball. By the time the ball bounces one last time Manu is already on his right foot, then he steps with the left, then right and jumping with it.
Navin, you’ve made some great points in your posts, though I have to admit since I don’t ever expect it called on a star I’m pretty numb to traveling, thanks for the video and the discussion.
19 Comments
March 26th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Although he was 1/7 last night, that one was vintage Manu, and I don’t think he even needed to dribble for that lay-up.
To answer the Q: There’ll definitely be some amazing happening in SA Town, but I can’t say the same for Phoenix.
March 26th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Did he take three steps after he picked up his dribble, or is it just me? (Reason I bring this up is that LBJ most certainly took 3 steps against the Cs in the “where will amazing happen this year” commercial and most ppl did not even see it!)
March 26th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
He’s planting his right foot as he picks up his dribble and then takes two steps. It’s definitely close but I think most NBA referees wouldn’t interpret that as a travel.
March 26th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Thanks. Do you agree that this is a travel?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYa5u-lPS8c
March 26th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
That’s much closer to a travel but it’s still difficult to say. The question lies in where you believe his dribble ends. The ball bounces on the floor for the final time and then he clearly takes three steps. But he has planted his left foot before he has both hands on the ball. Does your dribble end the last time it hits the floor or once you have grabbed it with both hands?
For a really thorough breakdown of this problem, take a look at TrueHoop’s excellent 5-part investigation of traveling in the NBA.
March 26th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Thanks again. I had actually read it when they had posted it but thanks anyway. There is actually a simpler way to look at it and I dont know if you will agree but count the number of steps the player takes with ball in hand. I think by that metric both Manu and LBJ took 3 steps with ball in hand (no dribbling) and hence by any definition these shd be called as traveling. When they pick up their dribble, as you have correctly pointed out, is hard to define but three steps with ball in hand is easy to spot, right? Thanks for taking the time to discuss.
March 26th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
So glad to see him back!
March 26th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Navin,
I agree that is simpler in theory. But given the speed NBA games occur at, I think refs are more likely to count the number of steps after a guy has completely picked up his dribble, i.e. has both hands on the ball. But that’s the problem with all NBA reffing, isn’t it. As compared to the concreteness of violations in other sports, a basketball referee’s job is highly interpretive.
March 26th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Cant stop watching it! 21 times and counting!
March 26th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
I agree, thanks Graydon.
March 26th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Navin, respectfully, I think your eyes are focusing on all the wrong things in these clips. You may be missing out on a great sport.
March 26th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Eric R., you inspired me to watch the Ginobili clip multiple times. All this chatter about “Parker for MVP” has been nice, but the truth remains that we depend on Ginobili to close out games. I hope Vujacic watches this commercial, too, because I can’t wait until he finds himself in Raja’s position.
March 27th, 2009 at 5:36 am
ChillFan. I dont analyze these when I watch the game, I just enjoy the flow but when they showcase these “amazing moves” in commercials and you watch it dozens of times on TV, you tend to notice other things.
March 27th, 2009 at 6:57 am
Wasn’t it brought up about a month ago that the rule book actually states that a player gets only one step after they pick up a dribble? I remember reading that and being absolutely confused, because starting basketball from the age of 6, I was always taught the 2 steps rule.
Either way, you guys bring up a good point about traveling being entirely up to the ref’s interpretation. I guess that’s why they want to rewrite the rule in the NBA. I’m all for it. Watching those plays is a thing of beauty (mostly the Manu one), and you’d hate to see it called a violation.
March 27th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Bryan: The issue is that if you actually look carefully, Lebron and Wade (esp on his spin move where his pivot foot jumps!) travel a lot (no pun intended). Kobe, by contrast, has his footwork under control.
March 27th, 2009 at 10:04 am
I just re-watched the video to check if he took 3 steps. He didn’t, like Graydon said, he takes only 2 steps after picking up the ball. By the time the ball bounces one last time Manu is already on his right foot, then he steps with the left, then right and jumping with it.
March 27th, 2009 at 11:56 am
[...] about He’s Back [...]
March 27th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Navin, you’ve made some great points in your posts, though I have to admit since I don’t ever expect it called on a star I’m pretty numb to traveling, thanks for the video and the discussion.
March 27th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Thanks ChillFan
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