I don’t know which Spurs fans you talk to, but the Spurs fans I know love Manu. Manu doesn’t complain about being on the bench. I think we all know he could easily be a starter, but that’s not how the Spurs have organized their rotations. When you have a star player like Manu who is willing to be on the bench, well that’s just not somebody you get rid of.

And the only negative way I’ve heard him blamed for a championship, is when he made that silly foul on Dirk Nowitzki a few years back. And even then, that’s not guaranteeing a championship. But other than that, he hasn’t necessarily been blamed for championships…it’s been said that we NEEDED him to win it.

Anyways, I think getting rid of Manu will end the Spurs title run for quite a long time. We can’t win this thing without our big 3. Our role players are getting better and better and now is not the time to get rid of one of their leaders. We saw what happened when we lost Manu at the end of the season. The Spurs simply need Manu, otherwise Tony Parker has to do basically everything.

The Spurs have been dealt some tough luck the last few years too. They only traded Scola to make room for Splitter, and then the economy crashed and he got a better offer to stay overseas. Mahinmi has been a big disappointment with his injuries – he’s young and has dumb hops – I really believe the FO and Pop felt that with a healthy Manu – and Splitter and Mahinmi contributing this year – we would be planning the parade today.

The one thing I know eats away at Pop is how the NBA and Stern just let Jerry West and the Lakers fleece Memphis for Pau. Now everyone is looking for a deal like that. However you can’t discount how much the current economy is affecting the NBA – how many teams have asked for a bailout already? Manu puts the fans in the seats so that’s another consideration.

I know the Spurs will be under the cap in 2010, but they are also afraid of getting spurned again a la Kidd back in 2003. I think the guy they are curious about – the guy that can make a huge difference if he could just keep it together – the one guy that would get our defense back on track and the guy they have thought about getting for a while now is…Ron Artest.

Would he sign for the mid-level? Hard to say. He’s free and with this economy and with an honest to goodness chance to bring Kobe down…he’s crazy enough to consider it.

One last note: the Spurs have a history of trading with the Knicks, and despite what many seem to think – the complications with the cap make it so they may not have as much under it as was once thought. If the Spurs would be willing to consider Eddy Curry (I know – but what if a change of scenery did him some good) along with David Lee (they can’t keep him and chase LeBron and they know it) – for some serious salary dump and perhaps Hill or Mason…I’d do it in a heartbeat. Our cap would be gone with resigning Lee and Manu, but our team would get younger, with better rebounding and there are some other nice pieces the Spurs have overseas just marinating a la Manu who would be ready once Timmy retires.

Eddy Curry
Tim Duncan
Ron Artest
Manu Ginobili
Tony Parker

David Lee
Hill or Mason

They would have to trade or release Bowen, Thomas, Oberto, Finley (he has a player option correct?), Udoka (is he a free agent?) and Bonner plus a future pick possibly. They would have to fill in the gaps with Hairston, Mahinmi, Williams and some journeymen playing for the league minimum. They would have to give up either Mason or Hill for some value, probably Hill since he would be a lighter cap hit for the Knicks. One way or another – the Spurs are going to do something this offseason. I just hope they come to their senses and don’t trade Manu – even Kobe knows how good and important Manu is to this team.

Making a reasoned argument to support your case isn’t a ‘lecture’ — it’s called having a discussion. On the other hand, comments like ‘do your homework,’ and, ‘are you even a Spurs fan?’ certainly sound a lot like a lecture to me.

I could say a lot more here, including giving references to posts from syndicated columnists who, despite Vince’s bad rap, have argued that he’s much better than he gets credit for. I could talk about how other players who openly coast through the regular season (Shaq would be one) don’t get nearly the negative response that Vince does, and about how, despite that coasting, Shaq has 4 rings. I could even mention how OUR SPURS (yes, I am a fan, just not a belligerent one like you) quite openly coast through the first half of the season before they kick it in when it counts.

I could refer back to the point I’ve made twice now that Vince wouldn’t have to be the best player on the team for us to win (how do you compare an elite guard with an elite post player, anyway?). I could point out that any reasonably intelligent reader would understand that when I said, ‘we beat other teams by relying on the one of our big 3 who had the greatest mismatch at his position for a given series,’ I’m clearly talking about the offensive end of the court. Some things, like the fact that the Spurs are really good at D, are just a given — kind of like when people say that it was the Bulls’ defense that won them titles in the MJ era (we all know that MJ was the greatest player of all time, but we don’t really have to say that, do we? We understand intuitively that people mean ASIDE FROM MJ’s SCORING ABILITY, . . . ).

But I guess I won’t mention those things, because then I’d be ‘lecturing’ you instead of just making good discussion points on a DISCUSSION BOARD.

Do a little homework before you attempt to lecture..

First off, Vince Carter quit on Toronto, plain and simple.. He even admitted he purposely stopped playing hard!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/columns/story?id=2843733

EXCERPT: And Carter’s cause hasn’t been helped by (a) his being accused in the Tacoma News Tribune of tipping off the Seattle SuperSonics about the Raptors’ plays — a month before he stopped playing for Toronto; (b) distorting his face in derision and mocking the Air Canada Centre crowd for chanting “MVP” at Chris Bosh during a Raps-Nets game this season; and, worst of all, (c) telling broadcaster John Thompson he didn’t push himself as hard as he could have when he worked and lived north of the border.

I don’t want a player on my team who even thinks of doing such a thing..

Second off, we didn’t win championships because “one of our big 3 had mismatches” against other teams.. we won championships because we had the best defense in the league..

Ask Pop, defense won our championships.. that’s our staple.. are you even a Spurs fan?

Vince Carter does not improve our defense and has never been a team-first guy.. he is the anti-Spur.

I’m not sure I would recommend that the FO make major decisions based on how your head feels. Maybe you should cut back on the caffeine and see if that helps.

By your logic, we shouldn’t bother going after Bosh next summer if we keep our cap space because he hasn’t done anything in Toronto either, right?

Carter never had the talent around him in Toronto to do a whole lot. And in NJ, the 3 best players were Carter, RJ (who plays the same position as Carter), and Kidd (who isn’t a great scorer). Whenever your entire offense is based around perimeter players (two of whom can’t shoot), your team isn’t going anywhere.

In San Antonio, Carter wouldn’t have to be the vocal leader on the team, and he wouldn’t have to be a star every night just for his team to have a chance to win.

And the ‘can he carry us to a title’ question, I think, ignores the history of how we’ve won in the playoffs over the past 10 years — we beat other teams by relying on the one of our big 3 who had the greatest mismatch at his position for a given series. Case in point — if we can all agree that Manu should have been the 05 Finals MVP, then that’s one finals MVP among each of our big 3.

Another aspect of what you’re asking when comparing him with Manu is, can Vince bury a big shot with the game on the line? The facts say yes — statistically he’s pretty good at that, even in comparison with the other league leaders.

Again, for the third time in this thread, I’m NOT saying that the FO has to do this deal, but I think it’s a much closer call than some are giving it credit for.

Ask any Raptors fan about Carter and then get back to me..

My head hurts.