Tuesday, June 23rd, 2009...10:44 am
Richard Jefferson to San Antonio
Old flames die hard. In February several news outlets reported that the Spurs were in talks with the Nets and Bucks to trade for either Richard Jefferson or Vince Carter. Apparently, those talks never died.
Chad Ford is reporting that the Spurs and Bucks have agreed to a deal that would send Fabricio Oberto, Kurt Thomas and Bruce Bowen to Milwaukee for Richard Jefferson. This is a no brainer for the Spurs, and it puts them right back in the championship hunt. Richard Jefferson is a monster upgrade.
Jefferson’s skill set couldn’t be a better match for San Antonio. He can score going to the hoop, is a capable defender, and shoots nearly .400 from the arc. His 19 ppg give San Antonio the 4th scorer they’ve needed for several seasons. Jefferson averaged a mere 2 TO per game last season as Milwaukee’s best player. It’s hard to imagine a better trade scenario. The Spurs just struck oil.
Relative to his salary, Richard Jefferson may under produce. His career PER is 16.7. That’s a little low for a player owed 14 and 15 million the next two seasons. But he’s only 29. And his production is vastly superior to anything the Spurs have had on the wing since Sean Elliott.
My best guess is that the Bucks will buy out Bruce Bowen and we’ll see him return to San Antonio prior to training camp. If that happens, this trade goes from a homerun to a grand slam. The only downside is that the move leaves the Spurs thin upfront, but one suspects they have a back up plan in the works to replace Kurt Thomas. Oberto’s best play is two seasons behind him, and the Spurs actually win by freeing up his roster spot. By adding Jefferson, the Spurs have converted Roger Mason Jr. into a potent 5th option or valuable trade chip. The ripple effects go from the center to shore, and I’m hard pressed to find a single negative in this move.
Aside from landing Jefferson, the other story here is that the Spurs have moved away from their 2010 cap strategy. Jefferson’s salary eats up everything they had on reserve for a big name free agent run. But Jefferson is probably as good as any player they were likely to land next summer, so in that sense they’ve simply accelerated their rebuild with a player that can help them within Tim Duncan’s window. They’re not waiting on 2010 by sitting out 2009. This also means there is no reason for the team to play cautious with their checkbook. With their 2010 plan on the scrapheap, the team could theoretically make another trade for a player whose salary would push them against the taxline.
As I write this, my head keeps going back to something that might be missed in all this. San Antonio is good to its fans. Here is a team that is committed to winning. After being bounced in the first round, they could have faded from view just as everyone expected them to. But instead, they got off the mat and started swinging. They’re a small market team with a relatively poor ownership group in a bad economy. And they just added a big contract to their books when 1/2 the league is trying to shed cap. Take note.
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92 Comments
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:54 am
There really is no reason for Bowen not to come back after being released which is a feel good aspect of this trade. I wouldn’t be surprised if they try to make something happen on the front line using Mason and/or Udoka, especially if George Hill comes along nicely this offseason. If they can find a Gortat like big man who can split nice minutes with Bonner I could see big things for this years Spurs. Who knows, we could win on an even year.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:56 am
At the risk of commenting without adding to the discussion …
Goooo Spuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrssssssss Gaaaoooohhhh!!!!
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:59 am
So true, we should really be grateful for the team and ownership that we have. Could cause an interesting dilemma though - who of Mason, Jefferson or Ginobli comes off the bench? I would vote for Ginobli. We definitely need a big man and there are three excellent options available - Rasheed, Birdman and Gortat - if we throw our entire MLE, I’m certain we can get one of them.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 am
I agree, this is just unreal. I think that everyone sitting around me at work is wondering if I’m crazy now because I shouted out loud and about did a dance at my desk!! Couldn’t ask for a better trade. When I saw the headline on ESPN.com, my first thought was wondering if I’d see Mason or Hill’s name in the transaction, but to get Jefferson for so little, amazing.
I think this still gives us room for some kind of maneuvering, whether by FA or through the draft. And adding another big is a big priority.
But to me, the best part of this trade is that it instantly signals to everyone else in the NBA that the Spurs are still here. That they are not backing down, and their demise is once again greatly exaggerated. I bet the draft rooms/front offices of the Lakers, Cavs, Celtics, Mavs, and other top teams in the league just got a little warmer and busier…..
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:05 am
I just yelled really really loudly in jubilation. Attention NBA: We’re baaaaacccckkkkk!
In all seriousness, what a trade. Jefferson seems to be a Spur type of player all the way around. Plus we did this trade without giving up any draft picks, so we can still draft and stash or trade up. This is very very good. Thank you, F.O. Thank you very much.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:05 am
Man I am really pumped about this trade. This is great. It also frees up some roster spots for guys like James Gist, Malik Hairston, Jayson Williams, etc. if the Spurs want to. Obviously the Spurs will need to pick up a big man and hopefully Mahinmi will be good to go this year. I’ve been reading some stuff and Spurs fans seem to be concerned about the status of Bowen coming back to the Spurs. I actually read some commenters on SpursTalk saying that they would think this is a great deal if Bowen comes back to the Spurs. Are you kidding me? This is a great deal no matter what for the Spurs. Why not use Bowen’s roster spot to sign one of the younger guys in the D-league or one of the overseas guy??? I’m totally fine if the Spurs decide to sign Bowen, but I don’t think Spurs fans should get hung up on what the status of Bowen will be. I know he’s a great guy and has been an awesome Spur. But people we just gave up junk and signed an All star caliber wing!!!
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:06 am
This trade is a beautiful thing. I tip my hat to the Spurs’s front office. I’ve been reading the fall out on other blogs and people aren’t very happy. We’re baaaaaaaaaaaaaaack…
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:09 am
The utter awesomeness of this trade is indescribable.
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:22 am
i really like the trade, but can’t say it’s a home run as of yet. i think it adds great depth to our team and solidifies our starting and ‘when we go small’ lineup(s). questions i have that i’m hoping are answered soon.
will Manu remain with Spurs after upcoming season? will he take reduction in salary? cause i doubt we can afford to pay that much for four players and have decent depth?
will Ian Mahimi step it up? do our draft efforts change to getting big man?
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Love this deal.
Where does this put us financially in terms of what we have left to sign an FA or to take on in extra salary on a trade? Hollinger’s take suggests this move already puts us about $4.5 million over the cap. Unless we’re going all-out to give us a chance at another ring in the next couple of years, I would say we’re now trying to fill our hole in the middle with close to minimal salary guys.
If so, here are some thoughts on unrestricted FAs who still might be in our price range (I’m guessing the minimum up to about $3 million/year) that are also consistent with the win-now approach the FO took with the Jefferson trade.
OLDER VETERAN FAs:
Joe Smith
Antonio McDyess
Rasho Nesterovic
Jamal Magloire
Theo Ratliff
Brian Skinner
YOUNG FAs:
Joel Anthony
Shelden Williams
Robert Swift
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:14 pm
This is awesome! I’d rather have traded Bonner than Thomas, but to get RJ for so little.. this is like our own Gasol trade
I think bringing in RJ will increase the chances of a decent free agent coming to the Spurs for the MLE.
Just an example; but a guy like ‘Sheed might be willing to play for less if it means a championship.
Pablo, we traded three guys who barely played for us last year due to injury/uselessness for a quality starter who hasn’t missed a single game the past two years. Not to mention RJ played with the Nets during their two trips to the finals, landing him for Bowen/Oberto/Thomas is a homerun.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
I absolutely love the trade and think Jefferson will fit right in to the Spurs locker room.
It is, definitely, a risky move, as Henry Abbot and Hollinger pointed out. It’s championship or bust with our Big 4 now, because no 2010 savior is walking through that door!
I would love to see Gortat with the full MLE on the squad next year as well. That would be a fantastic addition. I think adding Sheed Wallace, as many people have suggested, might be one too many cooks in the kitchen now, but what do people think? Maybe Mahinmi is the starting center next year, with Gist off the bench and some other veteran gets minimal pay check and minutes.
(Also, I’m not sure it’s a slam dunk that Bruce comes back here if he’s cut. That is a proud guy, and I could understand being hurt by this, as well as the guarantee of limited playing time…)
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Okay, I guess I’ll be the first to say I’m not as fired up about the trade. I’m getting there, though.
My first reaction was that I’ve never been impressed with Jefferson. I have not watched him a lot, and maybe it’s just having rooted against him in the ‘03 Finals. But I’ve never thought ‘wow, we need that guy!’ Please feel free to correct my ignorance. How likely is he to become a ‘Spurs guy?’ I felt that getting a 20 point scorer at the wing was just a matter of waiting for Manu to heal. Wasn’t length the big need this year? If Oberto and Thomas weren’t the answer to matching up with other bigs, why trade them for another guard?
If, as I assume, this is move 1, and move 2 (or 2-5) get us bigger, then I’ll happily be wrong, and even more happily watch all the scoring that will take place this season.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 pm
this site has been hard to get into since the announcement… is it final yet? i hope it doesn’t turn into a tyson chandler deal…haha
after an up and down season due to injuries and a disappointing first round loss, poppovich and company pull off this trade! wow.
i’m loving it.
the spurs culture will make him defend, and playing with the big 3, RJ should get great looks at 3s and he has the ability to take guys off the dribble, get to the rim/ft line.
as stated in this blog, tim is the window, and the spurs just added a player that can help keep that window from closing for another year or two.
now someone let me know how much we have to spend for the MLE and who are the likely candidates, (birdman, sheed, gortat, zaza?, rasho?) cause Timmy needs another solid big next to him.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Sorry about the difficulty with the site. We’re having a server issue.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:37 pm
I wonder what the Spurs are going to do on draft day now that they have address the SF issue. Do you think they will trade up to get a quality big? There has to be something else planned because they’re going to be short a couple of bigs.
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:40 pm
As a fan I love this trade. RJ seems to be a real character guy and a great addition to the team. The fact our front office is willing to stray into the Luxury Tax just goes to show that the Spurs are a top class outfit from top to bottom. Not sure he’s value at 14mill and 15mill the next 2 years but there is no dispute he makes this team better. Getting this deal done early is also great move. Now the FO have enough time to get Tim some help up front and to balance the roster well before the season starts. As a Spurs fan it is now impossible not to look forward to next season!
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:57 pm
This is a pipedream, but could imagine if Rasheed Wallace took a MLE to come play for a championship contender?
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 pm
1. This is the first big move of the offseason and it positions the Spurs as a very attractive place for any FA who wants a chip.
2. In case anyone wanted to know, the minimum for Bowen is 1.3 million per. Someone else (ATS of PTR) informed me that the league pays part of that for veterans so getting Bruce back is really attractive compared to paying a rookie. Basically, Bowen just gave us 2.7 million dollars to get RJ.
3. We still have Hill, Mason, Splitter, Gist, and 3 second round draft picks after the trade!
4. Manu has to still be safe or this trade doesn’t make sense. RJ’s contract is way less appealing than Manu’s. Our FO is definitely saying RJ + current Big 3 = Go for chips.
5. RJ is 29. Parker is 27. This could be a solid base to lead a transition period with Splitter and Hill. RJ played 35 mpg last season., and we might need those minutes with TD and Manu hopefully seeing reduced time.
And some questions:
1. Is there anyways our incumbent big 3 or now big 4 (excluding Duncan) sign deals to adjust their salaries for relief this season? Possibly a deal that gets Manu signed for another 2 or 3 years.
2. How does this effect our draft stance other not being as desperate for a 3? I don’t think a rookie would have gotten the starting job from Finley right away anyways. RJ is our clear starter.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Man, Henry Abbott over at Truehoop is really painting the trade almost as a bad deal for the Spurs. I understand unbiased journalism but come on this was no doubt a good move. I know I sure didnt want to just throw away the year in hopes of the 2010 sweepstakes.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Assuming the Spurs can get Rasheed Wallace, I think the question would be how much he has left to offer as opposed to whether or not he gives us one cook too many.
He’s a big personality, sure, but he thrived in a team-centric setting in Detroit. When the Pistons were rolling, they played hardnosed team ball on both ends of the floor and Wallace was as important to their success as anybody. To me, he has always seemed pretty comfortable as an all-world talent masquerading as a role player.
The Pistons are not going to be in the championship picture within the remainder of Sheed’s career. He’s been to the top of the mountain and I’m sure he wants to play for a team that can get him back there.
And let’s not forget how much respect other players have for Tim Duncan. He’s the kind of player that great players dream of playing with.
As for how much he has left, it is hard to say. He’s going to be 35 next season, but I think it is extremely pessimistic to think that he isn’t capable of being the fifth best player on a championship caliber team. He’s a big guy who can score in the post, defend, shoot a reasonable percentage from the line… and he shoots in the 35% range from beyond the arc. He’s not the transient force of nature he used to be, but he is more than competent. I think he has at least a few “Big Shot” Sheed seasons in him.
This is not to say he is our only good option or even our best one, but I think he fits if we can get him.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Tim,
Looking at our thin front court situation, I get the feeling that the front office isn’t done yet. What are your thoughts on the Spurs packaging a combination of Roger Mason, Matt Boner, Tiago Splitter’s rights and/or Michael Finely for a talented big man?
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
How does Sheed fit with all of this?
Do you think we keep the red rocket?
Room for Gist and Nichols?
Does anyone think we can still trade into the 1st round?
Anyone have any expectations for Ian?
Since we need a big, can we restart the Javtokas talk
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Bahahahhaa. The Spurs are BACK baby.
I’m loving this trade so much. Especially if we get back Bowen. Words can’t describe how happy I am about this.
There really is a basketball God…
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Great deal for the Spurs. I would have personally preferred Vince Carter but I can’t complain about getting a player of his caliber for pretty much nothing especially if it means getting bruce back. As far as RJ goes I like him especially in two aspects as compared to Vince, he is a better defender and runs the floor better. This is especially good news for Tony Parker cause now he has someone who can run the floor with him and finish with a dunk. Great Move. Can’t wait to see what else they do.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Great trade. Props to the FO for showing some savvy.
It will be very interesting to see how this affects our upcoming decisions, some of which might be accelerated with the draft only days away.
If Bowen returns that’s a plus, but NOT if Finley doesn’t retire with grace. If Finley returns, he’ll guarantee to eat up minutes that could go to a Gist, Hairston, or Marcus Williams. Ideally, Finley moves on and we keep Bowen for the playoffs and develop a young player this year while RJ gets a good bulk of minutes.
I don’t see the FO trading both Bonner and Mason as way to get a good big man, mainly because they are two solid 3 point shooters. However, if a trade occurs I’d prefer they move these two and hold on to Hill. Hill will be a legit player. Maybe not a star but there’s no reason to bail on him so soon.
Like I said, so many other details to be filled in. The FO probably have some of them already figured out and we’ll wait to see what develops.
Oh, I can’t imagine the team now trading Manu. The Big 4 is what will sell season tickets and get people excited. It’s gives the PR team something to work with. No way they screw with that now.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I’m sure the Jefferson #24 jersey’s are already in production as well….
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
The Spurs will have to fill out their roster with inexpensive players, unless they another trade. Sheed for the full MLE is probably not an option.
Trading into the first round is far less likely now, but depending on what it costs to get there, the Spurs could save money that way. But they’d have to move for someone who is certain to make an impact.
Javtokas already signed a contract overseas. But I think this helps Gist’s chances of making the team.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Depending on the big…
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Why does Rasheed’s name keep coming up? Did I miss something? I ask sincerely.
With this trade, the Spurs are just south of 70 million. Do we really expect that they’ll sign someone for the full MLE? I’m not sure that will happen.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
**
from hearing about this**
Just to add a twist:
Could the FO be planning of using Jefferson on yet another trade to get a bigger star?
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
ATS is correct about Bowen, and he makes a good point.
You can’t renegotiate deals in the NBA.
Re: our draft stance. 1) Less likely to move into the first round. 2) Should draft guys will an ability to play now. For example, Danny Green at 37 is probably a better fit than Victor Claver. The Spurs will have to fill out the rest of their roster in creative ways.
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Big Wish List (in no particular order):
Gortat
Pachulia
Birdman
Sheed
Camby
Anybody care to add?
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Even if he is coming back, every Spurs fan needs to read this:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129410
June 23rd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Dwayne Jones is probably more likely.
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:05 pm
While I see the added benefit of getting an extra 12-18 points from the wing position, and I think the trade was a good one. I still feel apprehensive about this. I trust Pop so I just hope this isn’t a desperation move.
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Jordan, why do you feel this is a desperation move? Bowen, Thomas, and Oberto all saw extremely limited minutes last season/last playoffs, and Oberto has health issues. We traded three non-factors for a solid starter.
Instead of saving money and hoping to land a free agent for around 15 mil a year next summer, we traded for a 15 mil a year player right now.
RJ will help us out immediately, whereas saving cap space for next summer is basically wishing upon a star…
Is this the best move we could do this summer? I don’t know, but what I do know is, this wasn’t a desperation move.
I don’t think Pop/RC could ever be suckered into any type of desperation type of move.
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
But if I understand correctly, the MLE does not go against the cap meaning that we will not have to pay luxury tax on that. Which is why it was still possible to offer him the full MLE if the owners really wanted to swing for the fences.
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
The 2010 cap maneuvering never made any sense to me. What marque free agent would want to join Duncan and Ginobili when they would be further in decline. The Spurs time to win is right now. This trade was the smartest move the front office has made in a long time. Now the role players can go back to being back to role players (Mason). They need to follow this trade up with finding a big to clog up the paint grab a few boards and block some shots. Maybe Bourosis can be that guy.
I like what Bruce brought to the team but last year he showed he either wasn’t willing to play a smaller role or couldn’t adjust to coming off the bench for spot minutes I think it’s time to move on from Bruce.
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Nevermind, I guess it doesn’t go against the cap but the Spurs would have to pay the luxury tax.
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Bruce will be missed. I’d like to see him retire a spur. Read his farewell to SA…very classy.
That said, this is exciting news and I cant wait for the season to start. Camby, Sheed or the Birdman will be icing on the cake although I am curious about Mahinmi.
Go Spurs!!! the first championship in an ‘even’ year beckons.
June 23rd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Duaneofly,
I should type more clearly, I meant that I hope it’s not a move just for a move’s sake. I will confess that I was against the Robert Horry acquisition back in 2003. I remember reading it and wondering what the Spurs were thinking (obviously I got that one wrong). On the other hand, I didn’t like the Drew Gooden signing and still don’t. I just don’t think he is beneficial to the system at all.
I guess I’m just a little apprehensive about this being the right move for the Spurs. On paper, this trade looks fantastic, as has been stated over and over again we’re giving up essentially nothing for a durable 20 ppg. But, until I start watching him in the Spurs system I’m still going to be apprehensive.
I guess I’m more of a glass half empty type of guy when I start looking at my favorite team. I hope this translates to another championship, that would definitely make it all worth it, but I’m not going to say that this is our cure all to win the west next season. Time will tell, right?
June 23rd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
This is amazing! When the talk of either Jefferson or Carter was going around, Jefferson was definitely in my favor. I always liked after we played against him in the ‘03 finals. He’s always seemed to have a high b-ball IQ and professional. He definitely fits the Spurs’ mentality. I really don’t see why we won’t be able to resign Bowen, and I still hope to see Nichols & Gist added to the roster.
Go Spurs Go!
June 23rd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
I am so freaking happy….I think this is such a home run for us. If bruce gets bought out and comes back it’s just an incredible win.
I can imagine Skiles might love to have a guy like Bruce around though to mentor and coach D. He will make a wonderful coach in my opinion.
June 23rd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
I have faith in the Spurs organization and don’t think Pop would make a move just to make a move. I notice that phrase gets thrown around a lot, but you know what? Not every trade is going to land you a superstar.
June 23rd, 2009 at 3:48 pm
CMoney has got a great point. The front court is now TD, Bonner, and Drew.
And Ian, if you want to count him too.
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:09 pm
GMT,
Skiles may like Bowen but there is no way that FO wants to pay a 38 year old who can’t score 4 million dollars this year. They want that money off the books. I doubt he’d get many clean looks from the corner in the Bucks offense anyways.
Alger,
Drew is gone at the moment. It is more reasonable to include Gist than him right now.
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Oberto has already been traded again to the Pistons for Amir Johnson:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aqvp1E02FPenSuWZMGP1aj3TjdIF?slug=aw-pistonsbucks062309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Like so many, I am excited about this trade. I am so glad to be a fan of a team that will keep swinging until they simply cannot anymore (a day I hope I never have to witness). A Starting 5 of RJ, Tony, Mason, Timmy and ??? w/Manu coming off the bench again is a very enticing option. I am eager to see the ripple-moves this creates. GO SPURS GO!
Tim, I don’t know myself, but I’ve seen a few posts indicating that the MLE doesn’t count against the cap, is that true?
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:31 pm
The MLE still counts for tax purposes.
Here’s the deal: there is a cap and tax threshhold. Two different numbers. The cap is at 58 million, if memory serves. The tax threshhold is just over 70. I don’t have the exact numbers in front of me. If you’re beneath the cap, you can offer whatever you’d like to a free agent. BUT once you exceed the cap then you’re limited in terms of contracts: you can resign restricted free agents, players with Bird rights (same contract for 3 years), rookies and use “exception” money. The exceptions are the midlevel and the biannual. They were created to allow teams an opportunity to improve, but with financial controls. Most teams are over the cap, so they sign new free agents with their MLE. No matter what, however, once you exceed the cap line, you pay. The tax is incurred at the end of the season. So many teams will ride a million or so over the threshold and shed money at the trade deadline in February.
Exceeding the tax line is a real money loser. You pay the league 1:1 on every dollar of violations. So 2 million over the cap is actually a cost of 4 million. Moreover, teams that finish the season under the tax line get a payout from the league-redistribution of collected money. That usually comes in at 3 or 4 million. So, using the 2 million example, 2 million over might actually cost the team 7 million. 2 for the player, 2 in taxes and 3 lost in rebate.
Hollinger is reporting that the Spurs will be 4.5 million over the taxline because of Jefferson. I think his math is a little off because he’s going with an extremely low threshold (next year’s number has not been set by the league yet, so he’s guessing). But let’s run with him for a minute. If correct, Peter Holt not only took Jefferson’s contract, but another 4.5 in taxes and the loss of whatever next season’s rebate will be. That’s a big deal.
The NBA doesn’t have a true hard cap, but it certainly has a harsh one.
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:39 pm
conspiracy!!!!! someone from the spurs is in bed with david stern no two ways about it!!! first there wqas boston’s series of trades that led to a championship, then the lakers get an unfair trade and a championship, then the spurs cried and whined (like duncan on the court) and got their unfair trade. i will bet any amount of money that the spurs are the champs next year. in fact why even play next year, lets just crown them now and get it over with!!!
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Since Detroit is buying out Oberto’s contract is it a possibility that he could be back with the Spurs?
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:45 pm
BlaseE,
Exactly my take.
Golliver (super smart Blazers blogger) says that Monty Williams (close friend of Bowen) says that Bowen returning to San Antonio is not at all guaranteed.
The Spurs simply cannot afford to resign Gooden for the full MLE. Gist and Mahnimi, methinks. Maybe they move up in the draft and grab a big like Blair. Ric Bucher is correct, though, to say that the Spurs really lack an Horry-like big. Maybe James Gist will pan out and can give them some of that.
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Yes, D Counts. It’s possible.
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Jay,
The Spurs are a television nightmare who play a fairly slow, half-court brand of basketball. I can see why David Stern would pull the strings to get this going. No doubt he’d prefer San Antonio vs. Cleveland to L.A. vs. Cleveland. No doubt. Remember how much everyone loved those 2007 Finals. Really brought home the bacon.
June 23rd, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I’m getting a fair amount of email about how this plays into the salary cap. Be patient. I’ll address those things shortly. In the meantime, see my post from early May. It anticipated today.
http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2009/05/04/offseason-breakdown-the-cap/
Also, AST gives a good outline over at PtR.
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2009/6/23/922364/spurs-trade-for-richard-jefferson
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Well done Spurs and ditto Tim on your final thoughts. The Spurs do reward their fans well and in my opinion this move is indicative of the type of mindset I hoped was still active in the front office; sometimes you need to pay to play.
The Spurs are clearly committed to maximizing their window of opportunity and are providing Tim with the kind of talent he needs to succeed towards the final years of his career.
Very well done Spurs.
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Just fyi, Adrian Wojnarowski was reporting the trade a good hour before ESPN.com had anything. I saw Chad Ford on TV getting credit for breaking the news, even though he didn’t. I think Wojnarowski deserves a mention for being out front on this deal.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AsCmZa6dypIyVxhGF.lgYrGM0bYF?slug=aw-jeffersontrade062309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:38 pm
I love this trade yes, but aren’t we really all just waiting for the other shoe to drop? Can RJ be repackaged in another trade?
Call me crazy but I think the Spurs have another move in mind. There’s something about the Spurs and a talented teenage point guard and I can see the Spurs dangling Tony Parker and change (possibly Bonner and Splitter rights) to the Grizzlies for the #2 pick (Rubio), Conley (as insurance), Gasol (to the plug the middle) and one garbage contract (preferably Darko which expires next year, but possibly Jaric who is quite horrible).
Either that or look for the Spurs to reignite talks with the Clippers who have too many bigs and Griffin coming.
The Celtics are trying to rid themselves of Ray Allen and Rondo, and I still think the Knicks know they can’t afford to keep David Lee. Perhaps a complicated three or four team deal? Where is Artest?
I really believe they are going to spend 24 hours thinking about the new fab four very seriously, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if someone big gets traded…I hope it’s not any of the big four, but it’s on the chopping block now.
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:41 pm
The Spurs sent out a press release tonight introducing RJ. If they were about to move him, I’m not sure they’d go through the trouble. Besides this isn’t a rebuild, it’s a “we have a couple years left, let’s reload” trade.
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:31 pm
amazing trade, totally unexpected!so does this def mean omri, finley and gooden are gone? if bowen doesnt return i think udoka has to stay hes the next bowen right? why is everyone talking about sheed, i dont think we can afford him. timothy who do you see here next season for sure? i know this is a great trade, when our rivals fans are freaking out with their crazy comments!!! i absolutely love this site! go spurs go!
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:43 pm
On Bill Simmon’s podcast with Chad Ford, they were throwing around the idea of a Parker for Rondo trade. Both seemed to think it would help the Spurs. Regardless of how you feel about that, his podcast was definitely worth a listen.
I like this Jefferson trade and am excited about next year already, though the lack of depth in the front court has me a little concerned but it’s a long time until October for me to be too worried
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
[...] the other end of the spectrum, the 48 Minutes of Hell folks are understandably excited to be adding [...]
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Zack,
I’m putting together some thoughts about Jefferson’s back up right now.
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Matt Steele: I listened to the podcast, and some interesting questions are raised. It’s all too much for my little mind to wrap around, though. I’m just going to have to sit back and enjoy the next few days and see what shakes out.
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Matt,
I listened to the podcast. I’m a Simmons fan and see Ford as something of a sage. I’m not sure about that Rondo deal, though. I like Parker more than Rondo, if you can believe it. But not by much. It’s the other contracts that scare me off of the idea. Ainge, by the way, is crazy to trade Rondo, or even suggest it.
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:11 pm
zack,
Omri is probably less likely at this point…drafting a big who could take a roster spot now is more important. We also have less assets to get us into the first round but its still possible.
Finley can decide to be on our team (for 2.5 million) or not. Its all up to him. After July 1st, if he hasn’t terminated his contract, he is on our team and becomes trade-able.
Gooden and Udoka are more or less gone. They are both unrestricted FA’s. The Spurs can do better. In Udoka’s case, the FO may see him as an asset for consistency on the roster if we are adding Ian, Gist, Marcus Williams, Hairston, draft picks, or any combination.
On other names mentioned…
It would be absolutely crazy of our FO to go for Wallace or Camby. Wallace would have to accept 2 million or something insane like that. Camby is owed 9.6 million next season. If we are already 1-4 million over, you don’t want to add another 10 million dollar contract.
Was Holt sure he wanted to lock in season ticket prices at last years prices? If you go to a game this season, do your part and buy an extra beer I guess.
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Ha! That last line is true. Every Spurs patron should order a round, or get an extra dog, for Peter Holt at the games. What a great gesture.
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:28 pm
This trade is unbelievably lopsided-so excited about the Spurs adding an All-Star wing for, what did we even give away, dwindling minutes and dwindling productivity?
Jay Thatch, I’m not sure about a conspiracy, but I’m WITH YOU that the NBA can be a bit of a farce lately: poor officiating defended, a league office that rescinds technicals on stars, and inexcusable front offices making their bad teams worse. (I remember being so frustrated at the Gasol trade; this one’s pretty similar.)
My friend points out that RJ makes more than Ginobili or Parker, but he has the POTENTIAL to be better than those two this coming year.
We still need the right Big alongside Duncan, but right not we can celebrate. The Spurs upped their chances in 2010 today, big time…….
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:36 pm
The initial euphoria over getting Jefferson for so cheap has slowly turned into anxiety. We already had gaping holes up front, and now the problem has been exacerbated. Not to mention that we’re already in the luxury tax. Is it safe to assume that Peter Holt is planning/willing to spend even more? After all, he signed off on this deal knowing that it would require more additions. Is Manu’s status with the Spurs in jeopardy? I hope not!
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:46 pm
rocko.texas, Anxiety!!! are you kidding me,
you just picked up an All-Star for Oberto, Kurt Thomas, and Bowen.
The Sacramento Kings would probably not be excited about getting that trio for free!
Of course, Manu’s status is in jeopardy, what planet do you live on!?! If Manu doesn’t produce this year, he will not be with the Spurs long term.
Yes, RJ may be overpaid, but most players are when they go deep into the playoffs as a young All-Star the way RJ did with the Nets. If you are dying to get anxious, or cut money, look to the other “rotting carcass” veterans and underproductive benchers we still have on the team.
June 23rd, 2009 at 8:56 pm
I’m just naturally anxious (what was that noise?). No it is amazing that the FO was able to swing this trade without giving up any picks, or either Mason or Hill (who both seemed like potential trade-bait last year).
What I mean to say about Manu is, it his status for this year in particular in any jeopardy. That is to say, I hope there aren’t plans to trade him, at least before he’s had a chance to show that he’s recovered. I just hope he gets that chance (which I assume he probably will). I realize that the Spurs likely aren’t planning on any extension talk unless he shows he can stay healthy.
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:03 pm
rocko.texas, I guess I can tone it down a bit, he he. But there’s really no reason to be anxious. Injuries and miscalculations CAN happen, but basically the Spurs became much better.
I really don’t think other teams would offer the Spurs as much in a trade as Manu is worth to the team now-he’s an incredible closer. But he’s been injured for the past two years. If that happens for one more or he drops off?
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:05 pm
The Spurs should retire #12. Actually, we should offer a dual ceremony for #12 and #4 on opening day.
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:32 pm
I’m really far from sold on the wisdom of trading a PG like parker regardless but just to trade him for another PG in Rondo?
I am not on the Rondo wagon at all. I think he is a solid pg who has a terrible shot and shines in Bostons set up with Ray Allen, Pierce, and KG around him. If you asked him to carry the team for half a season like Tony did this year i’d be absolutely gob smacked if he could come up anywhere near as big.
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:33 pm
If bruce retires then we have to retire his number, man was/is a machine.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 pm
The first thing that came to my mind was: this is our own version of the Gasol trade. Basically we get a _great_ player for spare change (I mean, I love Bowen as much as any Spurs fan but right now he’s spare change in a trade like this).
June 23rd, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Spurs become instantly quite dangerous again, but as a Lakers fan I feel we still hold the ace: Kobe Bryant is 4-2 all-time in his career against Duncan in the playoffs. What has been the difference? In tight, competitive games between the two teams, Kobe would simply dominate the fourth quarter and there was no one on the Spurs who could match his ability to take over a game and win it. Even with this trade, that remains true. And no, I haven’t forgotten about Manu. If Bynum ever gets clicking and stays clicking (meaning stays healthy), that means these are two relatively even teams…only the Lakers will have the best player on the floor and the ultimate closer. So I still think we have the edge.
But no doubt, the Spurs just became a problem again.
June 24th, 2009 at 12:02 am
[...] you know, yesterday the Spurs acquired Richard Jefferson for Bruce Bowen, Kurt Thomas and Fabricio Oberto. I agree with the general consensus: The Spurs [...]
June 24th, 2009 at 4:01 am
Haha.. love the trade!
Even more than that, I love the chatter from other teams fans who now have to deal with the Spurs again!
Cheers to Peter Holt!!
June 24th, 2009 at 4:04 am
Hah yeah I know Sean! Its funny, the past couple seasons the Spurs got slack for being old etc etc
So we trade three oldies for a 29 year old solid starter with finals experience and other team’s fans (and some sports writers) are saying it was a bad deal for the Spurs. Lol what?
I just get a kick out of that
Go Spurs!
June 24th, 2009 at 4:40 am
duaneofly,
I think that is the first place I’ve seen “with finals experience”. I was thinking about him as our opponent that year but never even thought about his playoff experience as another benefit.
June 24th, 2009 at 4:51 am
I know that the Lakers vs Magic reader comments on Espn.com were all about how the Lakers had finals experience and the Magic didn’t etc etc
How much help that experience was in the Lakers victory I do not know, but if the team to beat (well their fans at least) say that playoff/finals experience means something, than well RJ is an even better pick up.
He played in the finals against the Lakers, than again the next year vs Spurs. He was part of several other NJ playoff teams, plus he’s been in the Olympics.
He’s been on the biggest NBA stage twice and in my opinion his experience can only help us.
June 24th, 2009 at 6:41 am
Antwonomous,
I think that pointing out that Kobe is 4-2 vs. the spurs is just a little misleading. For instance, three of those wins came with shaq in the middle and when both teams were very different. Also, 03-04 win included Karl Malone and Gary Payton and required a mircle by Fischer to keep LA in the series. The only matchup in the last five years was ‘07-’08 and not only was RJ not around yet but Manu was not nearly healthy. (Also, it is important to note that when the lakers were down in 04-05, 05-06 and 06-07 the spurs did not have a chance to beat a Kobe lead team because they didn’t make the playoffs or lost in the first round).
Kobe is a great player, but Manu at 100% has been able to do some scary things himself. Not to mention that Timmy and Tony have been pretty good too. I am not saying I would bet my life either way, just that I hope we meet up in the WCFs this year and sort this out on an even playing field.
June 24th, 2009 at 6:47 am
David,
Even playing field? Who do you have as the top seed with home-court? Just curious.
June 24th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Ill always remember Fab, bowen and Kurt!!!
they were some of our best role players. They joined the names of Brent barry and Malik rose in my heart.
June 24th, 2009 at 10:55 am
On ESPN’s trade chatter blog, Chad Ford throws out a Parker Mason and Bonner for Rondo and Ray Allen trade…..
At the very least it’s interesting to think about. I love Tony Parker, after Duncan he’s my favorite player… but I’m also loyal to the team first.
June 24th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Jefferson makes the Spurs better,but not a true competitor in Western conference. First, Ginobli is a question mark. No one knows how he is holding up physically. But even if he’s 100%,he’s not the Manu of yesterday. You can say that about Duncan too. He is still a great forward,but he’s a step slower to the basket. Parker and Jefferson are very good players,but what about the bench? Pop can’t play these 4 the entire game for 82 games. Roger Mason is a good offense player,but he’s a very poor defender. Houston, Denver, Portland, and LA have better, younger, & deeper teams.
June 24th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Harry, I’m guessing you aren’t a Spurs fan. Look up Manu’s highlights from last season and you’ll see how good he can be 80%. He isn’t that old…..
Duncan had an amazing season:
75 games at 33.6 MPG
50.4% shooting (second highest % in last 6 years) on 14.8 FGA per game all for 19.3pts per game which is only .7 pts less than his average over the last 6 years (years without Robinson)
6.4 FTA per game on that 14.8 FGA’s
69.2% FT’s which is his second best % over the last 6 years
.5 STL and 1.7 BLK per game (worst of career but not by much compared to last season)
2.2 TO’s (second lowest of career) to 3.5 AST’s (3rd highest of career)
and 10.7 rebounds…but really if you look at his stats, Duncan is the model of consistency and the drop off you speak of is super minuscule and he is offsetting it with more assists and less turnovers
and that’s total season Duncan…in the last 25 regular season games he played in he only broke 20 pts 6 times….in the playoffs 3 of 5 games and the two games he didn’t were our game 2 domination and dallas’s game 3 domination so his minutes were less in those games…trust me, your team doesn’t want to play Duncan in the playoffs
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=215
“Pop can’t play these 4 the entire game for 82 games” Tell me one team that can play their best 4 players for the entire game for 82 games. I’ll take our top 4 over anyone else’s. Our bench will be very different once this offseason is over so I’m not sure I can even compare that to anyone else’s lineup.
Compared to the closest top 4:
80% Duncan> Healthy Garnett
Parker>Rondo
Healthy Manu>Pierce
Jefferson slightly less overall than Allen but much better team mate and better on D
With all of our injuries last season and without Jefferson, we were tied with Denver for the second best record in the West. We traded 3 players that averaged less than 19 mpg each for a star who can play 35 on any given night. We could get 54 wins next season playing any 3 of the 4 stars every game for 82 games at a 32 mpg average per star. What has Denver done to improve on their 54 win season?
June 24th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
LA won the title, they’re the best this year, yes they are better than the Spurs.
Portland, they have a bunch of young guys who are average basketball players plus Roy and Aldridge.
Houston has a bunch of young guys and Artest. If we are going to count on Yao being healthy for the post season than that means we can count on Manu (both staying healthy seems rather unlikely).
Denver is a good team, sorry if I’m taking away from what they did this year, but I think they overachieved, had an easier path to the WCF than the Lakers did, and still lost without much of a fight. I don’t really see Denver as that big of a threat. Sorry Nuggets fans!
My point is, is a team full of decent young players and an up & coming stud (Roy) better than a team with 3 studs (TD, Manu, TP) surrounded by RJ and serviceable role players?
Are the Rockets with their beast Ming, plus a superb defensive guy Artest, surrounded by serviceable role players better than 3 studs surrounded by RJ and serviceable role players?
I don’t think they are.
Unless you field a team of all-stars (but no superstars) like Detroit in 04, than its the team with the studs that are going to win it. Who the heck did Boston have last year? PP, RA, KG, Rondo and? This year Kobe rocked, Gasol, Ariza, Odom did their parts and who else did what?
I could be wrong, I could be right, but regardless I am optimistic about this upcoming season!
June 24th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
“This year Kobe rocked, Gasol, Ariza, Odom did their parts and who else did what? ” reminded me of this:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/kobe_bryant_proves_he_can_win
As of right now, Ariza and Odom aren’t even really Lakers. Odom says he wants both to stay but I think Ariza could see offers to pull him away. If Ariza leaves first, Odom could just say “oh well, might as well just take the best offer even if it isn’t the Lakers”
Would you rather pay Walton, Morrison, and Vujacic or RJ $15 next season? But he at least the Lakers have Walton locked in until the ‘12-’13 season.
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/lakers.jsp
June 28th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
[...] 48 Minutes of Hell » Blog Archive » Richard Jefferson to San AntonioChad Ford is reporting that the Spurs and Bucks have agreed to a deal that would send Fabricio Oberto, Kurt Thomas and Bruce Bowen to Milwaukee for Richard Jefferson. This is a no brainer for the Spurs, and it puts them right back in …Read more [...]
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