Comments on: The Poetry of It All

By: ruth bader ginobili

ruth bader ginobili — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:08:26 +0000

Good post. I agree: my favorite part of the last couple seasons has been the intersection between the greats of tomorrow and the greats of yesterday.
I also consider KG as another member of the old guard, and its been great having him on a contending team. Wish we could say the same about Dirk, Dwade, and Paul.
Guess we’ll have to content outselves with Tim, Kobe, Shaq, KG, LeBron, Dwight, and Carmelo.

By: ChillFAN

ChillFAN — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:24:23 +0000

People who argue that “Shaq won the titles for Kobe” are letting their Kobe-hate get the best of them, something I try to stay away from. Kobe is a great player, especially if you like selfishness, being quick to blame others, whining and making faces like a three year old at the refs, barking at teammates for not passing fast enough, demanding that stars are traded then demanding help. Great player, not someone his teammates want to be around.

By: Jay

Jay — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:06:09 +0000

If we’re going off of Finals performance/Finals MVPs as true definitions of who was the best player on the team, then Duncan really only has 2 “on his own”. Parker got his much deserved MVP for the last championship. And let’s not forget that Duncan played the first 6 games of the 05 Finals with both hands around his neck. If Robert Horry didn’t bail him out in Game 5 (assist going to Rasheed Wallace and his abysmal defense on the big dagger), history would remember Duncan and the Spurs as choking that one away. I remember being upset that Duncan was named Finals MVP that year and I thought that Manu/Horry deserved it more.

Besides, as far as Kobe/Shaq’s Finals MVP count goes, that’s skewed due to the fact that the East had no real centers for years. In 2000, Shaq ate Rik Smits for breakfast; Kobe had to deal with Reggie Miller and Jalen Rose. In 2001, Shaq made it a personal mission of his to show the world that Mutumbo was a fraud. Kobe was kept occupied with Iverson (MVP that year). 2002 I don’t even remember who was supposed to be guarding Shaq, I just remember they weren’t doing it (was Martin technically guarding Shaq that series? I can’t even remember, that series was unwatchable). Kobe had to work on Kidd the whole series.

Kobe was arguably the best player for the Lakers in 01 and 02 (and as Spurs fans we should all remember Kobe’s 2001 season) but didn’t get the Finals MVPs because matchups dictated that the Lakers should go through Shaq at all times.

By: mattmo28

mattmo28 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:21:10 +0000

Duncan is still the only one of the 3 that won a title while being the only all-star on the team. (’03) Parker was still very unreliable Gino was a rook. Kobe won his first 3 with shaq and then didnt win again until he got Gasol. Conversely, Shaq had mamba for his first 3 and played 2nd fiddle to Wade for the fourth.

By: duaneofly

duaneofly — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:45:20 +0000

I don’t consider the Jazz to be contenders either, unless they can stay healthy and maybe find a great trade for Boozer. I’d say they are more of a contender than the Blazers though. The Jazz dealt with injuries (to DWill and Boozer) all season which could be why they slipped to the eight seed and lost to the eventual champions LA Lakers. The Blazers however, stayed healthy, other than Oden (no surprise), and still lost in the first round.
Point being: Neither of them are contenders. If Yao is out for the year than count Houston out too.

By: BP

BP — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:38:40 +0000

Kobe will probably be remembered but only because of the hype. 6 trips to the finals 1 finals MVP. 1. 1 in 6? Why because for four of them he wasn’t the best player on his team.

Now the team mate argument is always difficult to judge, who had more or less help etc. But when counting championships for all the marbles as the “eras” defining player surely you can only sue ones where that player was the best player on his team. Otherwise doesn’t Scottie have equal claim to the era as Michael.

If you want to go pure quantitative go % of MVP votes (I’d thrown in atleast 75% of games but it doesn t matter for the results). Do this and you actually find out how short the Kobe “era” has been and what an absolute chasm there is between TD and Kobe.

By: LA_SPURS fan

LA_SPURS fan — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:22:18 +0000

As it stands right now, the Spurs already have legitimate help. If everyone is healthy, I think we could get by the Lakers, even if Gasol is a beast.

I thought in 05 that Ginobili was as good if not better than Duncan in the finals. I could be wrong though.

By: ChillFAN

ChillFAN — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:16:41 +0000

Great read. Kobe, Duncan & Shaq: only one of these players was reliable in back to backs last season. Right now, Kobe just led his team to a championship. No player’s ever, not even Jordan, has won the championship without great teammates. It’s time right now for the Spurs to go get Duncan legitimate help.

By: Graydon Gordian

Graydon Gordian — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 05:07:48 +0000

Mark,

No, the Utah Jazz should not be included alongside the Blazers and Nuggets in the “could be contenders” category. The Jazz only made it to the WCFs because they had the good fortune of playing the Warriors in the second round. The only other team they have beaten in a postseason series during the last 3 years is Houston (a feat that, before this season, was nothing to write home about).

Tack on the fact that the Jazz finished 8th in the West this season, a spot they slid down into after returning to full health, and I think it is safe to assume they will not be contending for a title.

By: TC

TC — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 05:06:38 +0000

If you ding Shaq for playing second-fiddle to Wade for his last championship, you have to do the same for Kobe’s first 3; he clearly was NOT the best player on LA’s 3-peat, Shaq was. TD is the only one who was the best player on each of his 4 championship teams.

By: Mark

Mark — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:21:26 +0000

Shouldn’t the Utah Jazz be included in the Nuggets/Blazers category as “maybe they’re good enough to be a contender?”. They have essentially the same team that made the Western Conference Finals a few back, and maybe better. If Millsap returns, which at the time I write its looking like the Jazz are willing to spend a luxury tax to keep him, this is a team that is quite good. Injuries are always a concern, but isn’t that the case for any team?

I don’t want to distract from the main point of the article, however. Kobe Bryant will probably get more publicity and more people naming an “era” after him, but Kobe, Duncan, and Shaq probably all stand beside each other as equals. Unless, of course, that 5th ring rolls around. If Shaq wins a ring this year, it will mean less to his prestige than, say, a 5th for Duncan and Kobe. Why? It’s because people are just so willing to open the “LeBron era” book that Shaq will not get credit beyond “he was the role player LeBron needed!”.

Just a few thoughts.

By: tsk

tsk — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:13:46 +0000

its a race for thumb ring for everyone.. for kobe its pinkie ring(see chinese tshirts of kobe 4 rings) and that finger is injured. I havent seen MJ play. but can you honestly say anyone from 2000 till now that can play like or better than Kobe? As a teammate there are lots of them better agreed. but as Simmons said, nobody (including duncan and shaq) havent put together this 2 years of great (amazing and consistent) basketball like Kobe has and that alone is enough to push him above the other 4 ring guys.

By: Alex

Alex — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:53:08 +0000

I think calling the last decade the pre-Lebron era is a little perfunctory and brash.

By: .

Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:39:55 +0000

mattmo28

more with less? Lebron has pretty good teammates. During the regular season when they won 66 games no one was talking about his supporting cast not being good enough. He loses in the playoffs and all of a sudden his team isn’t good enough? He has bad players all of a sudden?

And please. Lebron has NEVER played with the likes of Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton all starting on the same team.

Lebron’s teammates after joining the Cavs most of their FG% have actually dropped, while a lot of Kobe’s teammates have risen.

Please don’t pull the “has done more with less” card. Say anything you want about his stats being better than Kobes, his leadership being better (even though that’s debatable), or even about him being able to dominate a game, but DONT pull the “teammates” card.

Delonte West, Mo Williams, Zydrunas are all good in their own right. Maybe if the Cavs had a more offense oriented game instead of a “let Lebron dominate the ball” and make decisions they would be put in a position to be more successful. The fact that Lebron has the ball in his hand almost EVERY offensive position makes everyone else useless. All they do is stand around and wait for Lebron’s pass, then they’re forced to shoot. They’re not allowed to make decisions or set up the offense for themselves. It’s all “okay Lebron gives me the ball, then I shoot” for his teammates.

Just because you have more assists doesn’t mean you’re a better passer.
Just because you have more rebounds doesn’t mean you’re a better rebounder.
Just because you have more rings doesn’t mean you are a better player.
Just because you have more steals or blocks doesn’t mean you are a better defensive player.

By: Tijani

Tijani — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:28:33 +0000

Umm mattmo28 neither did LeBron.

He averaged 38.5 but the only relevant statistic is 2-4 vs 4-1