Thursday, July 23rd, 2009...7:49 am
Spurs to Sign Theo Ratliff
The Spurs have come to an agreement with veteran big man Theo Ratliff. Ratliff, who has been in the league for 14 seasons, adds further depth to what already looked to be one of the deeper frontcourts in the league.
A common reaction to this signing (and, in all honesty, my initial reaction) will be bemusement: Do we really need another big man? Well, Someone in the front office sure thinks we do.
You can draw a direct line from some of last week’s summer league performances to this signing. It’s reasonable to assume that neither James Gist nor Jack McClinton showed Pop and Buford enough to earn a roster spot this coming October. With some roster space open and the LLE to spend, they decided to give Tim Duncan more backups than he will know what to do with.
And that’s the question: Do we now have more big men than we know what to do with? Oddly enough, I don’t think we do. There are 15 roster spots available to any NBA team. It is not absurd to spend 7 of those spots on the frontcourt.
Although I couldn’t be more excited to watch the Spurs dominate the paint this season, the truth of the matter is this frontcourt may be more fragile than we would like to admit. Tim Duncan’s knee issues have not suddenly disappeared. I am very excited to see what both DeJuan Blair and Ian Mahinmi can do, but they are still untested. If, as they did last year, Duncan’s knees limit his minutes during the regular season and one of our two big men prospects doesn’t pan out, the Spurs could do much worse than having Theo Ratliff plugging the hole.
When the news hit, I was in the process of writing a post about how we should save the LLE in order to make a late season acquisition in case any part of the rotation appeared to shallow. But, in all honesty, Ratliff is as good a player as we would have gotten in such a scenario. I am fine with making the rough equivalent of such a move now.
Over at PtR, Rikkido said he believes this move makes a trade almost certain. Personally, I’m not so positive but I will admit that I like some of the names he puts on the table (Raja Bell is realistic and would be an excellent addition at this point). When we’ve had some time to thoroughly consider our trade options, Tim or I will be back with some further analysis on that front.
123 Comments
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:59 am
Any chance the Spurs saved their LLE by signing Ratliff to the veterans’ minimum?
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:09 am
I’m not positive. As I understood things, we only had the LLE left to spend. It’s definitely possible we didn’t spend all of it. I’ll talk to Tim, who is the master of the CBA, and get back to you.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:10 am
Well, the most common critique I’d heard of the Spurs was that even with all the trades and acquisitions, they still lacked a shot blocker. Ratliff has been a decent shot blocker in his career.
I think it is a good, low-risk, potentially high reward signing.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:16 am
I would love Raja Bell. And does Theo Ratliff still have anything left in the tank? The most use he’s provided the last couple years is being an expiring contract. Hopefully he can do well with spot minutes and block a couple shots
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:36 am
If we are trading someone, I hope it is Matt Bonner. He can’t defend, can’t rebound and can’t shoot the 3 when it matters. I miss Isiah so much!!!
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:37 am
I agree with your analysis. Ratliff is a good defender and won’t be asked to play big minutes. Thus not sapping what is left in his tank. I’m happy if we keep the current roster and I’d be happy if we make a move to get a solid outside defender like Bell.
Either way, this is a solid move, in my opinion.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:44 am
Two things: I agree that a perimeter defender would cover the most pressing need, but who would we give up to get that role filled? I’m not so sure there is a net gain there. Second, I love how 48M and PTR keep scooping MYSA with not only news, but links to sources and intelligent analyses. If you aren’t already getting paid, you should! Thanks.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:55 am
I actually really like this move. It didn’t quite make sense at first glance, but once you chew on it for a bit….
It’s good because we aren’t expecting much out of Ratliff, and as everyone else has said, he brings a much needed shot blocker to the team and another long defender to help against bigger centers.
And the move makes me wonder if Rasheed Wallace was really a big smoke screen to throw everyone else off the trail of McDyess. We basically got the scorer we needed with McDyess and then the long defender we needed with Ratliff. Almost a 2 for the price of one deal. I don’t think Wallace, by himself, could have made as big an impact on the offensive end as McDyess, while impacting the game defensively as much as Ratliff will.
Great move and can’t wait to see what the front office does the rest of the way. Although I am a little leery of moving Mahinmi. I think he could have a lot of potential.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:55 am
I’ve said it before, Mason and Bonner shipped to Charlotte for Raja Bell and Alexis Ajinca…a 7′0″ Center out of France, who is only 21? Get it done, R.C.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:59 am
I do think a trade is in the offing. It’s just hard to imagine that the Spurs will keep seven big men that play two positions. Plus, unless we dump either Hairston’s or Williams’ unguaranteed contracts, we have 15 players and no roster flexibility.
I see Bonner finding a new home. I would only part with Mason (as some have suggested might happen) in such a deal if we got back a quality wing defender & gunner, ie. Raja Bell, although that seems a steep price to pay. Mason is at least his equal offensively.
Having said all that, I agree that the frontcourt, despite its numbers, is very iffy. McDyess has an injury history. Blair, Mahinmi and Haislip are mostly untested. Bonner is a softie. Ratliff is nice insurance but he’s old too. And then there’s Timmy.
Duncan’s knees really concern me. I used to have an “in” with the Spurs medical staff, one which allowed me to get a head’s up about an unspecified serious, career-threatening health problem with Sean Elliot weeks before the kidney issue became public. Obviously that was years ago. I don’t have that access anymore.
But I do know several medical experts, all of whom agreed when I asked them last spring, that tendonosis is a degenerative condition, one that can’t be fully resolved through rest or rehabilitation.
There was some dispute among the doctors I asked about the efficacy of surgery. One perspective was that it was pointless to try- that his career was basically shot and that he wouldn’t be able to play out his current contract.
The other perspective argued that surgery could at least temporarily halt the degeneration and allow him to regain the leg strength he lost in recent months.
I’ve heard little about Duncan’s knees since the season ended and it appears no surgery is on the horizon. I have an uncomfortable feeling that this season may see many more DNP’s for Tim, in the undesirable neighborhood of 25-35.
Graydon and Tim- have you heard anything new on this front? Any chance you can look into the status of his tendonosis, at least as far as the scuttlebutt goes among your sources?
Thanks,
Syd
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:06 am
Raja Bell is really washed up. The Raja Bell of 2009 is NOT the same Raja Bell that hounded Ginobli in those Suns-Spurs battles. It would be a mistake to acquire Bell.
I hope Bonner is not shipped out, a big that can space the floor is essential (most of the other contenders have such a player – Boston with Rasheed; Orlando with Lewis; Lakers with Odem and Cleveland has been looking to acquire a sweet-shooting PF).
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:15 am
Wow, Syd, I had no idea about that Duncan thing. If what you’re saying is a real possibility, then you can’t really question the Spurs having 7 guys in the frontcourt going into the season.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:17 am
Ratliff does one thing really well: Block Shots.
His BLK% last year of 6.6% (at age 35) is better than any shotblocker we’ve ever played next to Tim. (#50 only bested 6.6% once in his career).
I can see him filling the hole we have in the middle when Duncan sits. Love the addition!
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:32 am
Well I think that what Syd says kinda plays into the Ratliff signing. Now, when Tim is out of the game, we have a big who can patrol the paint and stop teams from making runs on us. I expect Ratliff to see alot more time in the regular season as Tim is rested more. This signing is really starting to grow on me.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:54 am
Agreed. At first glance, 7 bigs sounds like a lot but we have a versatile group of big men that can match up well with just about any team in the league. I’m so intrigued to see how the rotation plays out this year.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 am
Once again the spurs surprise us.
My first though was that we were going to ship bonner and someone else. However i’ve decided it’s best to sit back and enjoy the surprises
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 am
Signing Ratliff is a good move, but I will pretty much guarantee that we don’t start the season with 7 bigs. Easy math tells me the Spurs are more than three deep at the PF/C positions. no way they need that many guys so who is going to go? Well clearly not the guys they just acquired (McDyess, Haislip, Ratliff). They probably won’t trade the young guys (Blair, Mahinimi). That leaves Duncan or Bonner. Hmmm that’s a toughie. Bonner is a good spacer, but he obviously can’t rebound, defend, and has few offensive moves besides the open 3. On top of this he makes $3million next year and (here’s the big one) has an expiring contract. I could be wrong, but I would just almost bet that he’s gone. We could still use another guy to back up RJ besides a 36 yr old Findog. I wonder if Portland would be willing to hook us up with Travis Outlaw for Bonner and a pick? It would give them more cap space to resign Roy and the others.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:33 am
hobson13,
Outlaw does seem like a good fit. Not sure about his defense, but he can definitely make an impact on the offensive end.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:40 am
According to Adrian Wojnarowski at Yahoo!, Ratliff signed for the vet minimum:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AsJNTNJVD7SXhY.yOGy4xhS8vLYF?slug=aw-ratliffspurs&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:42 am
Raja Bell is not a point guard and the Spurs are loaded at shooting guard. If the Spurs are looking to move Bonner for a veteran point then a trade with New Jersey makes plenty of since. The Nets lack a bonefide shooter and could use some size as well and with the acquisition of Alston, Dooling becomes the odd man out. In short, the Nets get Matt Bonner and the Spurs get Kenyon Dooling to solidify their point guard position. Their salaries match almost to the dollar and Kenyon has two years left on his reasonable contract.
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 am
well as a nurse i know of this being, a degenerative disease common in athletes. i once heard sean elliot say”i have never seen anyone correct this w/out surgery” so yea timmy’s got some problems, i was really expecting to hear about his knees this off season, from what i know the collagen takes about 100 days to regenerate, so hopefully with this long off season he should be healthy.
Now if this is continuous, he has a problem healing, i heard last offseason he was flipping tires lol so i think if he just takes it easy this summer he should be fine. Now graydon, or tim if you know a source close to timmy there is breaking research on tendinosis and stem cells found in adults and placed locally by injection to promote almost certain full recovery this is the best option to me as this can really extend his career. M.D Anderson hosp. is in houston and its a leader in stem cells and research
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:09 am
therealkman,
The Dooling trade sounds interesting and he shoots a decent % from 3 land. I really don’t see Bonner getting too many minutes this next year and if this is the case then we would be better off bolstering our 1 or 3 positions. I think we are ok at the 2 spot with Manu and Mason, but the PG position only has a second year man as backup to Parker and the SF position has a 36 yr old as backup so it’s kind of a toss up between the PG and SF as far as what we really need. If all that makes sense??
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:25 am
This is a Spurs move that we’re more accustomed to, especially since no one was expecting it. I wonder if any fans had even considered acquiring Ratliff; I know I hadn’t. Now the only type of addition we could possibly make is an insurance PG or a defensive SF. I would love to see Battier join us, but for now, I’m not going to be making any speculation. I’ll just keep myself on standby for any FO action.
Go Spurs Go!
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:37 am
I wonder if Ratliff-McDyess-Duncan may be the FO’s answer to if the Lakers stack Gasol-Bynum-Odom. Other than that and possible trade scenarios I think that is what the FO plans are.
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:57 am
More than anything, Theo is a true big. He’s not 7 feet, but he plays the post like a true center. Yao might be out for the year, but the Spurs needed someone to contend against teams with players like Yao (Howard, Shaq). Besides McDyess, who is a bit undersized, that someone was likely to be Ian. Can still be or as rikkido says over on PtheR he can also be included in a sign and trade. More so if Spurs are looking at Splitter as a defensive center presence for next year.
I wouldn’t expect them to trade Ian. It’s hard to aquire and develop true bigs. But you never know with Tiago coming in next year and Blair now backing up Duncan? McDyess will probably be a solid backup next year or a starter at first grooming while Splitter learns the system.
Either way, I do agree this opens the door to a trade. If they go the blockbuster route (hard to call it that), they would involve Ian to get a veteran perimeter defender. If they go the most probable route will probably involve Mason and Bonner like a lot of us expect them too. And don’t be surpised if the main motive is to shed a little bit of salary. I would never blame them business wise. The triumvirate of Holt, Pop and RC has really re-energized our squad and our fan base.
July 23rd, 2009 at 12:05 pm
i made this move in NBA live 08. I’ve got Ratliff and a rookie C/PF i drafted, in addition to Timmy, Tyrus Thomas, Kurt Thomas and Leon Powe. I start TD and the rookie, and then have Tyrus start at the 3 and move to the 4 when the rookie gets fatigued. Ratliff or Kurt are my first bigs off the bench, depending on if i need shot blocking or shooting. works wonders in the video game. Hope Ratliff can be as productive in real life as he is on my ps2.
July 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Hobson13,
I honestly believe that the Spurs are solid at the 3 position. Jefferson averaged 35+ minutes last year and did not miss a game. Additionally, Hairston is growing into that Bruce Bowen-like small forward that many envisioned and based on his solid play in Vegas I see him as the primary backup for RJ with Fin as the 3rd SF. Point guard is the one spot where a injury could be devastating for the Spurs. Dooling is 29 and listed at 6.3″ and he is a true point (unlike Mason). If not Dooling then CJ. Watson would be a nice alternative.
July 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I for one, am VERY interested in aquiring Raja Bell in a sign and trade, or a straight up trade.
He LOVES do D-up Kobe and isn’t afraid to clothesline the SOB. AND he has a heck of a three ball too. JUST what the Spurs love to have!
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Imagine this trade: Shane Battier for Mason and Bonner
This opens a roster spot for the Spurs (so Toros can come up and down during the season). Additionally, we get a proven wing defender.
But why would the Rockets do it? Trading Battier for two expiring contracts would do wonders for their cap situation next year. Without Battier, only Dorsey, Yao, and Ariza are on contract next. Thats (roughly) 25M on the books. With Battier, they have (roughly) 32M on the books. That space could prove vital in the buyer’s market that is the offseason of 2010. Plus, it’s not like they’re losing TOO much talent. Mason is an improvement offensively, and additionally they get Bonner.
Battier just seems like a perfect match for SA. What do yall think?
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
therealkman,
You’re probably right. I had forgotten we have Hairston at the 3. So with that in mind the point would be the weak spot. Hairston should be a decent player and they’d only rely on him to contribute a handful of minutes. Maybe somewhere around 8-10/game with Finley getting around 8-10/game and Jefferson bumped down to about 30/game. As far as I can see Findog is going to be seeing a LOT fewer minutes this year with Jefferson and Hairston.
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:22 pm
I think at this stage you can stick a fork in Raja Bell as an elite defender… No way he can keep up with the likes of Kobe anymore, offensively he is Roger Mason. Plus he earns over 5mill a year. I know the FO has thrown caution to the wind a bit so far this year but I’m pretty sure they’d like to avoid taking on extra salary unless it was for a very special piece.
If there are any other signings to be made expect Vet minimums/Low cost deals or trades that shed salary.
1st Lesson of capology? – Don’t overpay for role players!…. Never had to worry about that with our FO.
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Battier…. Great guy… But ready for back-up minutes? He’s a 30+ minutes a game guy. I know we could juggle him between SF and SG (not ideal)
to get him those minutes but I really doubt at this stage of his career that would be a situation he’d go for. I’d love to see it though.
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Definitely a good depth pickup, as Ratliff is an experienced, length big man with shot blocking capabilities. Obviously, he’s not the athlete he was in his salad days, but the Spurs need a true center who could plug the middle defensively, and be a presence at the rim. He’s that, even if he’s not the space eater of a Nesterovic type, at “only” 6′10” 235.
As that post says at Pounding the Rock, this likely sets up a trade. Seven big men is too many, and if things stayed as they currently stand, Mahinmi would be buried on the inactive list all year, Blair would play, but probably not as much as he should, and Haislip would be buried at the end of the bench as well. If there is a move, I’m guessing it’s for a defensive minded wing.
July 23rd, 2009 at 2:16 pm
I don’t understand the chatter for Bell. In a straight up Bonner/Prospect trade I would certainly jump at it. But Bell is 32 and not the Bell we remember from Phx. He is not the defender that he use to be.
I wouldn’t include Ian or Mason in any trade for him. Mason seems like a younger version of him for 1.5 mill less.
And I don’t like the Ratliff move if it cost us the LLE. Hopefully it was nothing more than the veterans minimum. I still feel like there might be some quality players left over as teams start closing their wallets and perhaps the Spurs can get a good wing on the cheap.
July 23rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Pop must have some mathematical equation he uses to calculate minutes for this players? I suggest this ’cause Theo (an likeable player/person) has not logged in many minutes over the last few years. Looks like 2005-06 was his most productive over the last 4 seasons.
Maybe 6 to 8 minutes a night? Probably less? It’s a curious move. Not earth shaking, yet fit’s the pieces in the Spurs puzzle.
July 23rd, 2009 at 2:40 pm
I think we’d all agree that it is very hard to predict what RC and Pop will do. We are continually surprised by their trades, signings, and international picks. I don’t need to cite any of the numerous examples.
That said, I am wondering if there are any other perimeter defenders who could be in Buford crosshairs. The only perimeter defenders I’ve heard about as potential trade targets are Battier and Bell. But remember, neither Bowen nor his hopeful protege, Udoka, were big names when we picked them up. They were athletes with the right bodies and potential for defensive upside in Pop’s system.
Is there anyone else who could fit this description? Any potential defensive stoppers who aren’t past their prime? Or does Richard Jefferson have what it takes to be the stopper we need?
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Is Tayshaun Prince a realistic possibility? Or is he too expensive for our do-anything-it-takes summer?
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:00 pm
I am also sure that signing raja bell would RUIN our team chemistry just because of our first round series in 2008 against the suns in which they were obliterated and they completely lost their morale. They never forgot that series. Raja Bell on the Spurs=BADD
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Forget trades, what about these under-the-radar potential pick-ups?
Walter Herrmann
C.J Watson
Luther Head
Desmond Mason
Brevin Knight
All could probably be had cheaply, and should have some game left
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Herrmann would have been a dream come true for me, but apparently he inked a 2 year deal with Tau (doesn’t Tiago Splitter play for Tau?).
Though I wouldn’t mind Raja Bell how about a look at DeShawn Stevenson. We could use a defensive 2.
I like Ratliff because he adds a proven shot blocking presence inside that Duncan hasn’t really had since Robinson retired. This brings back memories of 1999. Richard Jefferson is Sean Elliot, and while he’s a backup PG not a starting SG, George Hill is Mario Elie, seriously, look up the numbers.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Didn’t catch that news about Herrmann, but what I’m saying is that if I’m not mistaken, three contracts for next year are unguaranteed, so I think that route 9cut one or more and sign a FA)than a trade…at least until the deadline roles around and Bonner, Finley, and Mason offer up some good savings for a team that is struggling
As for having seven PF/CT types on the roster, remember, Timmy needs to be conserved, Blair is missing two ACL’s, McDyess and Theo ain’t spring chickens, Bonner should be considered a spot player at best, Ian isn’t quite ready for primetime, and Haislip has bounced out of the NBA once already, so a platoon mentality is in order
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Wow, the FO has done it again. They have surprised us. The addition of a 7th big man and the unpredictable actions of the FO lead me to believe someone is going to be traded. And since the FO has put smiles on my face the whole offseason, I’m excited for what they might do
I would see Bonner going. I love hsi ability to space the floor and make threes and he would be a plausible option off the bench, but his defense is less than stellar and I wonder why they would keep Bonner around and sign Haislip, who is a much more athletic version of Bonner who can also space the floor with a three ball
I don’t see Mason going anywhere. He is a solid shooting guard. Although he struggled in the playoffs, he did hit some BIG shots for us last season. Let’s not forget Christmas Day, and our first showdown with Kobe’s Lakers
I think we do need a lockdown perimeter defender. Shane Battier fits that role perfectly, so I agree with drew. but wesley makes a good point, we have nowhere to put him. It looks like Jefferson is going to have to be that guy.
All that being said, I still can’t say for certain what the FO has in mind, but the more they revamp, the more I get excited for the upcoming season.
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Whoops, I misspoke…Spurs have two unguaranteed contracts: Hairston and Williams…and I think CJ Watson has signed an offer sheet, so he’s off the boards
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Dumb question. What does LLE mean?
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:48 pm
You can break them down one by one if you choose, but the reality is 7 bigs is virtually unprecedented league wide. Almost without fail, teams carry 5-6 bigs, and usually at least one can slide down to the 3. Not one of the Spurs’ bigs can. Even the supposedly mighty Lakers only have 3 (if Odom re-signs, and he’s a combo forward anyway) credible bigs, and 5 total.
Whether it’s now or at the deadline, or some point in between, I’d be shocked if the Spurs don’t pull off a 2 for 1 trade of some sort, involving one of their bigs (Mahinmi or Bonner) along with a prospect (Mahinmi, Williams, Hairston), partially guaranteed contract (Williams, Hairston), or expiring contract (Mason, Bonner, Finley).
At some point a regular rotation needs to be nailed down. It’s nice that all of these guys bring something different to the table, but outside of Duncan and McDyess, another one, or preferably two need to be counted on to play against whomever in the playoffs.
Just when I thought I mostly had the opening night roster/rotation figured out, they Spurs throw a curve ball at us.
Here’s a guess…
Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Jefferson, C- McDyess, SG- Mason, PG- Parker
Bench: SG- Ginobili, PF- Bonner, SF/SG- Finley, PG/SG- Hill, PF- Blair, C- Ratliff, PF- Haislip
Inactive/D-League: PF/C- Mahinmi, SF/SG- Williams, SG/SF- Hairston
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:49 pm
First off, no to Raja Bell. His defensive days are over and like many have said, he’s a more expensive Roger Mason.
Regarding Shane Battier, I would LOVE for him to be in SA. I’ve always liked the guy. The guy was born to be a Spur.
And yes, I do think we have room for him. We won’t have room for Finley though. Put Shane Battier behind RJ. Yes, I know he gets lots of playing time in Houston, but what do you think Battier wants more? Playing time for a broken down Rockets team, or an honest chance for a championship with the Spurs dynasty? Plus, we really don’t need RJ to be playing 35 min/game like he did in Milwaukee. We’re not needy and desperate. And I don’t think RJ would mind sharing the minutes with Battier for a championship either. Nobody would mind. So I would see:
Richard Jefferson: 20-25min/game
Shane Battier: 15-20min/game
Malik Hairston: 5-10min/game
How we acquire him? Well I’ll let Pop and RC figure that out. I’ve thought about it over and over but I can’t find something that I truly like.
I know Matt Bonner is the biggest one everybody’s talking about, but I don’t want to see the guy go. Let’s face it, he was a great role player for us. Just not a starter. And I think the second we needed him to be a starter for us, everybody started disliking him. Not only that, he’s been with the Spurs for a while now. I’m starting to get very worried with chemistry problems. No chemistry = Dallas Cowboys. So much talent, but no production. (I love the Cowboys by the way. So please don’t crucify me).
I really, REALLY don’t want to see Mahinmi go either. We’ve spent so much time on the guy, and this might finally be the payoff year. I’m not prepared to lose him to another team, just to end up seeing him producing like oh I don’t know, Scola? *shudders*
Roger Mason’s argument is somewhat similar to Matt Bonner’s. The second we wanted him to play point guard for us, we decided he wasn’t good enough for the Spurs. And that’s not true. He’s a great offensive player and a great SG. We lose Mason, our only true SG is Ginobili. And he’s also some locker room chemistry that I’m not prepared to lose. We’ve acquired a lot of new players this off season, I just don’t want it to end up being a flop for lack of chemistry.
So Pop and RC, whatever you do about this situation, do it quickly because I’m close to losing my mind.
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:51 pm
regardless of what the spurs next move is I give them an A++ for the off-season
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
i dont know if this has been said but can haislip slide to play the 3 spot at times and hairston at the 2, that gives us great length on the floor at times and still spaces the court since they have developed their 3pt shooting
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Is it possible that we could get Marvin Williams in a sign and trade deal for Bonner and a prospect, it seems like the hawks aren’t to keen on signing him.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:41 pm
RAJA BELL!
Now if you guys get that guy, in any way, it will have been a very successful offseason! Raja is an absolutely perfect fit for your system. He reminds me of Bowen.
However, Theo Ratliff, as a Lakers fan, does not have me shaking in my boots, and niether does Jefferson for that matter. In my opinion, you guys need YOUNG legs to round out your veteran core. Legs with bounce, quickness, hunger.
D. Blair in my opinion is an absolutely GREAT pick up. Rebounding is one thing which translates between college and the NBA. He has young legs with tremendous potential. He may end up being a Millsap type player for you guys.
Dice –although he is old old old, Dice was also a great pick up for you guys. He is a very efficient shooter, is a good rebounder and has the veteran savvy. He doesn’t need a million shots to make a difference. He picks and chooses how he can be effected of the offensive side, and always plays greaet D.
Those two pickups were great for you guys. However, I completely disagree with the RJ pickup. And the RJ pickup it seems has Spurs fans the most excited. Here are my reasons:
RJ is a very inefficient scorer. He needs his shots. His defense is suspect, and his playmaking/assists very lacking. Basically his best quality is that he can score. However, he needs to ball in his hands for a lot of time in order to do that. I did some research on RJ, and he seems to be an average player when taking everything into consideration. Everyone is aware of Hollinger’s PER system. RJ’s PER peaked when RJ himself was in his prime: 2002-2006. His PER averaged 17.5 or so through those years. Last year his PER was down to 15. Hollinger sets it up so the average NBA player has a PER of 15. Furthermore his +- scoring is surprisingly bad. When RJ was on the court, his team scored 1.7 points LESS than their opponents. When RJ was on the court, his team scored 0.7 points MORE than their opponents. That’s a -2.4 net difference. I’m basically saying that according to how many points the Bucks scored versus their opponents, they were a BETTER team when RJ was not on the court.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Correction,
When RJ was on the court, his team scored 1.7 points LESS than their opponents. When RJ was NOT on the court, his team scored 0.7 points MORE than their opponents. That’s a -2.4 net difference.
That’s the correct version.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:58 pm
The Bucks would’ve been lucky to win 10 games without RJ last season.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:01 pm
It’s not that Jefferson is a truly great player, it’s that he’s a good player being asked, for the first time in his career, to play a complimentary role to the best three man core in the game, that has Spurs fans excited. That, and, we’re not the Lakers, we don’t have big names falling in our laps regularly.
Think about it though, as a 4th offensive option (he’s an improved spot up shooter from earlier in his career, especially on corner 3’s, a Spurs specialty) he gives the Spurs a big, power SF who can create his own shot, post up, get to the line, defend bigger SF’s in the post, and now he’ll focus the majority of his energy on being a stopper, something he could never do before. It’s also who he’s replacing. Most of us like Bowen and Finley had a decent year, but he’s a massive upgrade over both.
Artest over Ariza? Maybe marginally, as an individual player, but for how much longer? And, most importantly, will he fill the role Ariza played any better? With his volatile personality and penchant for trying to act like an elite perimeter player offensively, I doubt it. Artest also can no longer guard jet footed perimeter players, which is why Battier had to defend Bryant the majority of that series. The reality is Artest is an overrated player, over hyped on reputation, and in all honesty if I had to choose one, I’d pick Jefferson.
It’s about role, fit, and who’s being replaced. That’s how I evaluate acquisitions. Sure, I’m biased, but I truly believe the Spurs have had they best off season in the league by a mile.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Puzzling signing, I would have preferred Rasho, but adds the 3rd big man with fouls for the Bynum, Shaq, Howard, Perkins center matchups.
I do think the Spurs need another swing defender for Kobe, Lebron, Carter, Pierce. I’m not a Raja Bell fan.
Shane Battier should be the 1st choice.
Thabo Sefolosha should be the 2nd choice. Presti might help us out again like he did with Kurt Thomas.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Thabo Sefolosha, might be a good option he can be acquired through a straight up trade with Matt Bonner… and he’s young… it might happen, Go Spurs Go!
July 24th, 2009 at 2:43 am
I like this move. Not because of the possible trade option down the line but someone who can put in solid minuets off the bench. I would trade Bonner in a heartbeat. Yeah he got had a few games when he got hot beyond the arc but he can not defend. Package him with Finley only because of the age difference between Finley and Mason. Everyone keeps talking about next year the Spurs will get Splitter. Like my Father told me ” Tommorow is always tommorow”. The Spurs are set and if Bell becomes available cheap then the Spurs should consider him. Anyways I like this pickup. Enough said.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:47 am
Haislip may also play some at SF Express is Reporting. Man am I excited for this year.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:28 am
I think that’s a little bit of a flawed argument though Kaveh,
When Jefferson was on the court, almost certainly the opponents had their best starting five (which for almost any team is better than the Bucks) and when he wasn’t on the court, it was the backups which is more of a crapshoot.
+/- is a helpful statistic but is also somewhat flawed.
I think Jefferson’s PER will go up on the Spurs because unlike the Bucks, he’s not being asked to be a primary scorer. He’s probably the third option behind Duncan and Parker when he’s on the floor and if Ginobli is on there, he’s even after that.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:45 am
I honestly think that the spurs will keep all 7 bigs. Here is why. We are preparing ourselves for the matchup with the lakers who in a few days here will sign there own free agent Lamar Odom. And with there quality bigs we now have a rotation of players for each of them. Pau Gasol will draw Matt Bonner and Theo. Lamar Odom will draw a combo of Blair and possibly Mahinmi both of which have quick feet and the grit to match up with a smaller more aggressive forward and Bynum will get a rotaion of Duncan and mcdyess. Two big strong professionals against a unproven youngster. I wonder who will win those battles. I am all for this roster. Now bring on the lakers.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:17 am
Please also note that Jefferson’s best statistical season came playing behind both Jason Kidd and Vince Carter.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:24 am
Joe,
LLE refers to the Lower Level Exception, also known as the Bi-annual Exception. It’s just an amount of money (1.9 million, I believe) that a team is allowed to spend once they have gone over the cap.
Basically, it’s exactly like the Mid-level exception except it’s bi-annual and its for less money.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:54 am
1) whoever suggested that the Spurs should play RJ 20-25 minutes is mistaken. We didn’t spend 30 million over two years for him to play half the game. We have him for two years. We will use him up.
2) While I’m a propenent of dumping the expiring contract of Bonner, who has outlived his usefulness, I only see us trading him for a player who also has an expiring contract.
We’ll need that money next year to sign Tiago Splitter. As either Tim or Graydon said a while back- that’s Splitter’s salary slot. We’re not likely going to use it on anyone whose contract runs beyond this season.
3) I think this team is almost done tinkering. Were it not for the signing of Ratliff I would have thought we were done. But adding a seventh big makes it almost inevitable that another one will depart, thus the Bonner talk.
But I don’t anticipate any move involving a major name- someone like Battier or Bell. I suspect the F.O. would like one more long, defensive-minded three, but not if it means adding another contract beyond this year.
4) I’m still worried about Timmy’s tendonosis. I hope my concerns turn out to be overstated, but I wouldn’t be at all shocked if he misses a third of the season or more. When it comes to Duncan’s knee, things seem far too quiet on the southwestern front.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:59 am
All these signings show that the Spurs are looking towards matchups.
Haislip was signed to be an agile SF/PF player; with his athleticism and length, he can cover the Nowitzki’s, the Odom’s, the Rashard Lewis’ of the league.
Now, the Ratliff signing was done so Pops could send him to the post, to the trenches, where he could see the bangers of the league: Shaq, Gasol, Dwight, Bynum, etc.
R.C. and Pops are ready to gamble, and they definitely have with their all-out spending sprees, albeit some that are seen as unSpur-like transactions. But I deem these moves successful. They have weapons loaded at every single position, with room to spare; also, in their signings, they have fortified their roster into morphing into any shape the game calls for.
The fast-paced, 7-seconds or less systems:
Parker, Mason, Ginobili, Jefferson (PF) and Haislip (C).
The usual, Spurs-themed, grind-it-out affairs:
Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Duncan, McDyess (or insert Ratliff when Duncan/McDyess in foul trouble).
July 24th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Araz mentioned picking up Marvin Williams, and I think that’s actually a pretty good idea. The numbers would work if Atlanta did a S&T and we ship out Bonner & Finley.
He’s a jump shooting SF (actual hits more long 2s than Jefferson, only Travis Outlaw shot better in this category (07-08)) at 6′8″ with a 7′4″ wingspan but is still really quick and can offer some respectable D on the perimeter.
The Hawks could use a a 3 pt shooting big like Bonner, and right now it seems like they only have one SG, so I’m sure Finley could be useful.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:25 am
I am also concerned about Duncan’s knees. Yes we have surrounded him with proven talent, but if Duncan isn’t at 100% because of his knees, whats the point?
Duncan has to be at 100%, he has to be a near 20-10 guy this season,command double-teams in the post, be a defensive stopper, and play 60+ games in order for us to have a good chance at de-throning the Lakers
But I’m not sure if we can on Duncan’s knees.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Also I agree with Rye, Trevor Ariza would have been a much greater fit in the Lakers system than Artest. Without Ariza, the Lakers aren’t even champions this year.
Shane Battier and Marvin Williams are attractive wingmen, hopefully the FO does something soon, cause I just want my curiosity satisfied
July 24th, 2009 at 9:34 am
I don’t know if Finley would go for the trade, but the Hawks are definetly looking for a shooting big man like Bonner. So if the Spurs offered Bonner and Hailsap or Hairston, the Hawks would take a look.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Araz, We can’t package Hairston or Haislip until mid December since we just signed them. Are you a Hawks fan? I’m curious to know if this is coming from a Hawks fan’s perspective.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Yeah, I don’t think Findog would let that fly, but we could trade Bonner and Mihimni. Williams would be a good young forward to have alongside Blair, Hill, and maybe Hairston. We would be building for the future as well as winning now. It would be a great idea, but I’m not so sure the Hawks would go for it. The only negative about getting Williams is that his 3 pt% is pretty low compared to Bonners. But maybe that can improve with age and Chip Engelland.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:53 am
I just don’t see the FO trading Finley.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:53 am
GMT, The Hawks are my 2nd team. (behind the Spurs)
July 24th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I have not yet checked the free agent market but I imagine that the money spent on both Ratliff and McDyess could have been used to get a post player who is younger, healthier, and has more basketball ability than both of these two players. The Spurs claim to be wanting to get younger but they are not willing to trust the young guys to step up. So instead of developing the younger players, they pray that the much older ones they pick up in the free market have enough in the tank for just one more season. They still refuse to take chances and this will come back and bite them when they have nothing but old, worn-out veteran legs and young, inexperienced legs to support the stars of the team when it comes to crunch time in the playoffs again.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Ricky,
You’re kiddding, I assume. The Spurs have three young, agile big men on the roster and I suspect that each will be given every opportunity to win quality minutes over the course of the season.
I HAVEe checked the free agent market and there were no available free agents who were “younger, healthier…more basketball ability,” at least none that the Spurs could afford.
Guys like that (Odom, Milsap, Lee) are getting signed (or looking to) in the 8-10 million range. The Spurs simply didn’t have that kind of money to spend. If you’re aware of a top-notch, young, athletic big man who could be had for what was spent on Dice and Ratliff, about $6.5-7 million, I’m all ears.
So, being a reality-based organization, they wisely invested in two veteran hands, one of whom still seems to have a lot left in the tank.
having said that, I seriously doubt that the minutes of either DeJuan Blair or Ian Mahinmi are going to be sacrificed in favor of Theo Ratliff.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Ricky, thanks for introducing us to “a post player who is younger, healthier, and has more basketball ability” and of course can be signed immediately for $5 million a year. I guess for that price we could also add “lockdown defender” and 50% 3-pt shooter to the wish list?
July 24th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
I know you migt say I’m crazy when I say this but lets look at richard jefferson. I think he migt not be as good of a player as yall think he is. The milwaukee bucks had their two top scorers, mike redd and andrew bogut injured all last season and him being part of their big three he should have gotteb much better stats with redd and bogut out of the picture. I think we should trade jefferson bonner and mahinmi or some other players for jermaine o’neal or chris bosh or some other dominant center. This could be possible and would make out team much bette than having jefferson. Just a thought here
July 24th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
The consensus on this board is that Shane Battier would be a nice addition on the Spurs, but I have not seen a truly convincing offer that’s on-par with his value. The Rockets were built on grit (Artest, Battier, Scola) and hustle (Hayes, Landry) last season. What is their identity if you take out Artest and Battier? Battier is undervalued by everyone except for the Rockets.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Zainn, who would our SF be then? Finley? Hairston?
If we did your trade, we’d still end up with 7 big men, but then we’d be lacking in the SF department.
And Ricky, please tell me who this player is that has more talent than McDyess and Ratliff. I would love to know.
Also, I’d really wish that people would stop questioning the Spurs for being old. Almost every championship we’ve won, there were talks of, “Oh the Spurs are too old, they can’t keep up with the young legs, etc.” Seriously, how many championships do we have to win for this argument to die?
July 24th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
agree with DanielB, RJ was signed to start at the SF… and offensively he will 3 or 4 option for the Spurs’ so its good that we signed him….
July 24th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Zainn/Kaveh,
Jefferson was just about the only good player on the bucks this year due to the injuries of everyone else. The opposing team pretty much just had to load against him like everyone does against Kobe/Lebron. While Jefferson is a good player, hes not a superstar like those two. He was at his best when he was playing alongside Jason Kidd and Kenyon Martin. And he wasnt half bad after Kenyon left and they got VC. The point is, hes not good enough to be “the man” on a team, but he is definitely better than a role player. I would say that your PER is going to improve when you dont have to carry as big of a load. If you want evidence of that, look no further than Matt Bonner. His responsibility was “stand and shoot 3’s, and any rebounds you get will be a plus.” He averaged for awhile pretty close to 12/10, and his PER was in the upper teens. Does anyone actually think bonner is a better overall player than RJ? I doubt it. You say that RJ needs lots of touches to score his points, but i dont think that is necessarily true. Since hes not carrying the load anymore, his attempts will go down, but i look for his average to be roughly 15 ppg. We shouldnt need more than that from him. He gets 15, Manu gets 15, Parker gets 20, Duncan gets 20, and everyone else gets 20, thats 90 points per game, worst case scenario. I dont think its farfetched to say that both Blair and Mcdyess could end up averaging 1o a piece, so that leaves 0 contribution from Hill (who could also easily average 10 off the bench), Mason, Bonner, and Mahinmini. We’ve got the firepower this year for sure. And RJ should be athletic enough that since he no longer is required to carry the load on offense, he can contribute on D. And even if he cant, Hill did as good a job as anyone when he was guarding Kobe last year. He fought through screens and had his hand right in Kobe’s face everytime he went to shoot. He didnt often fall for fakes and get himself caught in the air, either. I would say that in the next year or two Hill will be about as good as Bowen at guarding those tough matchups, except for maybe Lebron because of how big and explosive he is.
The too old argument is also, well, too old. Last year it wasnt about age, it was about a lack of talent. We’ve now addressed that. We got some old guys, and we got some good young guys that can contribute.
i’d like to hear Ricky’s answer as well. Who could we possibly have gotten that would have been better? Drafting Blair and signing Mcdyess, as far as i’m concerned, have been the real steals of the offseason. RJ could be really, really good, but Mcdyess is a perfect fit and the most championship hungry player in the league. The guy wants it, bad, and you can tell by the way he plays. He’ll kill himself for a title. Blair has a chip on his shoulder, and hes going to be better this year than any player drafted aside from Blake Griffin. I’d bet money on that. Thabeet was way overrated. I’d take Ratliff and Blair over him for the next 2-3 years any day. And thats what all these moves are planning for- the next 2-3 years while we still have Timmy.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
And as far as all these potential trades to get Bell or Battier or Thabo or whoever, i do not think they are necessary. Give George Hill a chance and watch him work. He can do it on D.
And my guess is Udoke could come back for the veterans minimum. That would be another defensively minded player that already knows the system that we could plug in to go up against Dirk/Kobe/Lebron. He’d do as good of a job as anyone else for much cheaper, and he also wouldnt complain about sitting on the bench when hes not needed.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
sorry for the triple post, but also please never refer to modern day Jermaine Oneal as a dominant center ever again. I’d rather have Shaq. At least hes entertaining.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
SpursfanSteve,
problem with Udoka coming back is that the Spurs have currently 13 players under guaranteed contracts… with 14th and 15th spot partialy guaranteed (Hairston and Williams). if the spurs would like to re-sign him, they have to free up a roster spot, Plus Malik Hairston showed alot of improvement during summer league play… Some even think of him as younger, bigger and more athletic version of Udoka…
July 24th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
i wasnt aware of the contract situations. the point remains that we dont really need any more wings, either. we’re pretty set.
July 25th, 2009 at 5:29 am
Just a heads up… Dice was signed for the majority of the mid-level but not all.. we’re basically getting him and Ratcliff for about 6 million this year. I don’t think even in hindsight the FO could have done any better than that.
July 25th, 2009 at 8:10 am
Dice and marcus haislip were part of the mle and ratliff was part of our lle fyi
July 25th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Zainn, Thanks for the exact details.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Actually, I thought the MLE was McDyess + Blair, with Haislip and Ratliff being minimum signings.
July 25th, 2009 at 11:56 am
I love this site and the amazing coverage they have had of this glorious offseason.
But please, people stop posting trade scenarios that have no value for the other team. Trading for Battier? Hmm. What would Daryl Morey want for his favorite player. I don’t think it would consist of a package of spare parts with no marquee name.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Kalis, thanks for the more exact details
July 25th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
To all the above comments referencing Drew Gooden – he just signed with Dallas. That debate is over.
And for the record, I’m not as firm in my belief that the Spurs will(or need to) make a trade anymore[thanks for the plug, Graydon]. It still seems pretty likely, but may not happen until midseason, when the Spurs have had time to evaluate the current personnel.
July 25th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Wow you just killed the discussion
July 25th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Yeah, it does appear that Gooden has signed with the Mavs. Oh well. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt. I was actually a pretty big Gooden fan when he first joined the team, but he just never seemed to get it. Sure he is a decent offensive weapon, but he misses defensive assignments, doesn’t rebound that well for a big man, and just doesn’t seem to be that bright. You’ll notice that the Mavs only signed him for 1 year. That lets you know how much faith they have in him since he could potentially be a 1 year rental. He’s a good guy and I wish him the best, but we could have signed him a month ago if the FO wanted and believed in him.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:43 am
To me the fact that the mavs only signed him for one year speaks more to his questionable health, not ability. Remember in game 2 against the mavs in this past year’s playoffs Drew took a funny hit on his way down and landed pretty hard on his back. He got DNP-CD for the rest of the series, and I remember hearing on the radio on my way home from the game that he was caughing up blood, the Spurs later called it a sports hernia. But when Pop was asked after game 5 if it was Gooden’s health that kept him out of games 3 – 5, he said that his health had nothing to do with it.
Personally, I like Drew Gooden, he’s a good guy and the Spurs organization thinks he is too. I believe that knowing that his contract was expiring and the Spurs were not in the series against Dallas, Pop and RC just shut the door on any injury talk and benched him to hide it so he could have career this year. Chances are, Gooden got seriously but not permanently injured that night, it will be interesting to see the state of his conditioning, whether he looks like he’s coming back from some injury or his numbers go up as the season goes on.
Frankly, with all the gambles we’re already taking on health this year, the FO just decided it didn’t need one more.
July 26th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Hey guys, I read somewhere that the signing of Theo Ratliff is in preparation for a trade for Raja Bell with Finley and Bonner. Ratliff is a sort of insurance big man for the Spurs given that they’ll be losing a center in Bonner.
Do you have any other source of information on this? This seems too good to be true to read now.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:07 am
@Rey
Pure fan board speculation, as far as I know.
I would like to hear Tim and Graydon’s thoughts on this, though.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Getting Raja Bell doesn’t make sense from a roster standpoint. If we trade Finley then the only true SF on the squad is Jefferson.
I’ve floated this out there before, but I wouldn’t mind sending the Finley/Bonner package to Sacramento for Andres Nocioni.
Nocioni has that tough, get under your skin style of the Argentinians and can play the SF position + shoot the 3 at 40%.
The only issue is Nocioni’s contract.. we would have to throw in an additional player (Haislip) or get cash from the Kings.
The Maloofs would love to shed any multi-year contracts and Bonner/Finley’s 1 year deals would be very enticing.
Thoughts?
July 26th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Re: Raja Bell
Like Kalis, to the best of my knowledge this Raja Bell talk is nothing more than fan speculation. But it does make sense. Even if Bell’s defense has slipped a bit, he would still provide far better perimeter D than Finley. And his outside shooting would more than make up for the subtraction of Bonner and Finley’s offensive contributions.
It’s not a blockbuster trade or anything but, if the Bobcats were willing, I can’t see why we wouldn’t do it.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:07 am
I also don’t like our roster with Raja Bell. We’ve got a good option backing up at SG right now, even if that is our weakest position defensively. And if we wanted to use Bell as anything other than a late game specialist, his lack of offense would hurt us with the minutes we’d have to give him. As a late game specialist, a Finley and Bonner package is a bit steep to me. The FO consciously gave up some perimeter defense in favor of firepower, and I don’t see why they’d go backwards on that decision now.
July 26th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Deep Thoughts:
(1) This thread is insanely long, with mostly excellent analysis, but a few GoCrazyForSpursandGolosetouchwithreality comments..namely
(2) “Raja Bell is as good as Bowen.” If this is supposed to convince me to trade for him, think again.
(3) “7 Bigs is too many.” Frankly, we could have 8 and still lack a solid minutes guy that is going to spell TD and McDyess (who are like a hundred years old.) If we could not afford a solid guy, like Brandon Bass, that’s cool, but don’t pretend Mahinmi-Blair-Bonner-Ratliff strikes fear in the Odom-Bynum-Gasol frontcourt. Gist doesn’t either.
(4) No team is excited about trading for Michael Finley. A few like Matt Bonner. They are probably most useful on our roster.
(5) Games on the line, do we currently have a guy that can defend Kobe (with help)?
(6) Please Pop, let TP, Manu, and Hill run the point. We don’t need another PG. FYI Mason can’t do it either.
(7) Great offseason for the Spurs, don’t get me wrong, huge upgrade from our team that only won a game against the Mavs with home court advantage. But the only thing that worries me is we lack a guy that can soften minute load on TD and McDyss, and could use a good perimeter defender.
(8) Ratliff is not a low risk pick-up, but he may just be another Oberto.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Should read (8) Ratliff is a low-risk pick-up.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
I like to remind myself that a younger Timmy won championships with KWill & an 80 yr. old Admiral. So if you average out the withering contributions of McDyess, current Tim, and the rest of the slightly-beat-up big men, it seems reasonable that they could compete. They don’t necessarily have to beat LA’s frontcourt to beat LA, either.
July 26th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
This is got to be the longest comment thread in 48MOH history..
Headline: “Spurs to sign Theo Ratliff”…
You would think we traded away Manu or the Admiral was coming out of retirement with all the comments..
classic.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
I think this thread has gotten so lengthy because there hasn’t been very many new posts lately…so we need to talk somewhere.
I’m having Spurs withdrawals here.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
To the best of my knowledge this is, in fact, the longest comment thread ever on 48MoH. I remember the days when this blog would go weeks without getting a single comment. I’ll admit, I prefer the way things are nowadays.
And I apologize for the slowed rate of posting. Tim has been on vacation, my grad school program has just begun to ramp up, and the offseason news cycle has begun to slow. Those factors have all helped to slow things down around here a bit.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
I think it’s just been that the Spurs front office has finally slowed down enough that we can complain about the moves they’ve made so far or determine what they should do next. Usually this starts immediately in June, but it’s been building up since they signed RJ this summer.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
No need to apologize Graydon. Real life comes before all.
And there has been a lack of major NBA news (let alone Spurs news), so there’s no need for new posts. Only quality articles are written about quality news here at 48MoH anyways.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Quality comments? I just want to see this thread get longer. Ratliff may never play a second for the Spurs, but for next few months, every time I have a random thought, I’m adding it here.
So Mavs got Gooden, should Spurs try to get Ryan Hollins?
July 26th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
ChillFan,
i think Hill is our new perimeter defender. hes not yet as smart as Bowen was, but what he lacks in intelligence he makes up with athleticism. By the end of the year, i’d put money on him being a lockdown guy.
And i think Dejaun Blair is AT WORST our Brandon Bass. I think Blair has a better game on offense though. I also think hes a smarter player. It may not strike fear in LA, but Ratliff and Blair off the bench will hold their ground.
but i agree with points 4, 6, and point “make this thread even longer”
July 27th, 2009 at 5:55 am
ChillFan
I completely agree with you in the sense that we cannot have too many bigs. But the fact is the that Mahinmi-Bonner-Ratliff-Blair are not meant to strike fear to Odom-Gasol-Bynum trio. All they will end up being is 6 fouls to slow them down. If you have a two to three man rotation of bigs for each of those three main contributors on a team you are going to eventually wear them down. A change in defensive styles per player causes adjustments for the offensive player. You throw in Mcyess and TD and you have a serious rotation that will punish any combination of bigs the Lakers throw at us.
July 27th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Josh, I am considering your point about TD and McDyess being the key guys so who cares about Gasol-Bynum-Odom? also I know it’s about being OUR best and not just beating L.A.
But I personally don’t like the “6-foul-theory,” and not just because it’s painful to watch the other team’s free throw parade. Slashers like Jefferson and Ginobili are less effective with a traditionally slow but tall post guy clogging one side of the floor. Slashers play better with an athletic, shot-blocking BIG who can finish at the rim. Maybe this is the type of thing the 48MoH editors wanted to see with PopsMB, even though my Mavs friends insisted he’d had this chance already. Bonner’s a great backup center for what we ask of our Bigs when Manu’s on the floor. I hope we can depend on Mahinmi to do this type of thing.
If, as SpursfanSteve asserts, Blair is at least as good as someone like Brandon Bass, he could maintain status quo while Duncan rests. We will not have a problem. I’m asking because I’m not sure…..who fits better as a Spurs backup, Thomas or Ratliff?
LOL, SpursfanSteve, all I can say about “extend Theo Ratliff’s thread,” is that TrueFan “started it.”
DanielB, I second that “Graydon’s doing a great job.”
BB, thanks–I’d forgoten Kevin Willis was part of championship team. As an overly intense Spurs fan, I always have plenty to complain about. I have to confess that I usually adopt a “whipping boy,” to scream at during games, in years past it was Tony’s D, then Brent’s D, or Finley’s D, this year I hope its not Mason’s ball handling skills.
Sean, you mentioned “trading Manu?” I mentioned it to my grandma once and she slapped me.
Finally, dumb question here, is McDyess for certain going to start? Is Finley?
July 27th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Just to put it out there. Here are some possible trades that would make anyone happy.
1. Spurs trade Finley and Bonner to Rockets for Battier. Which would be the best trade are probably could happen.
2. This is more of a dream. If Presti helped us out again. Trade Finley and Bonner for Kevin Durant. Unlikely but it works out.
Either one would be a dream for the spurs.
July 27th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
To answer your question, Ratliff is a better shot blocker than Thomas, by far. BUT one thing Thomas was good at was just putting a body on people, making rotations, great team D. I havent seen enough of Ratliff to know for sure if he can do all those things as well as Thomas.
And i think Mason’s ballhandling ability will be the thing that vexes you most this year. I hope so, at least, because if thats the worst thing we have going, then we’ll be in good shape.
I’d say Mcdyess is a starter. It should be him or Blair. Finley i have no idea about. RJ should start at the 3, i’d imagine it will be Mason or Manu at the 2, but Finley could potentially start there.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
I realize this isn’t the place for this statement, but 1) There’s no other place for it, 2) I want this thread to get longer, and 3) it deserves to be said.
Happy Birthday Manu Ginobili!
July 28th, 2009 at 12:49 am
Bert, Trading for kevin durant would requiee much more playets and daft picks from the sours for that to go through
July 28th, 2009 at 7:36 am
There is not a trade package in the world that would get us Durant.
July 28th, 2009 at 7:40 am
You know we’re in a serious summer Spurs news vacuum when people start suggesting that we could trade Matt Bonner and Michael Finley for Kevin Durant.
July 28th, 2009 at 8:17 am
We can only wish. Go Horns!
July 29th, 2009 at 6:19 am
Hey Graydon & Tim,
Can you ban posters who post ridiculous trade scenarios?
Finley & Bonner for Durant??
How about we trade our ball boys for Dywayne Wade & Kobe?
Or what if we trade the peanut & popcorn guys for Lebron straight up??
All kidding aside Bert, just because salaries match does not mean talent matches, especially when it involves players on rookie contracts (first 3 years in league). Durant will be a max contract the rest of his career.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:24 am
actually, i’d prefer to trade some old Gervin jerseys for Anthony Randolph from the Warriors. Or Stephen Jackson. I’d love it if the spurs got Captain Jack back.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I think he’d prefer being the first option on the Warriors to spelling RJ.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Good point BB. shame, though.
July 29th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Sean & SpursfanSteve, hilarious, although Id thrown in a few 9mms so the Warrior could shoot them off in the air when Capt Jack leaves. Maybe we’d At The very least have to pay for a large sculpture of praying hands around a pistol
google Stephen Jackson tattoo pic–
I took the Durant trade proposal as either hilarious sarcasm or a newbie Longhorn Spurs fan.
any way, I’m just glad when a commenter has a point, as JRome would say. before you start begging4 comments to start being banned, make sure the Spurs hardworking Ball kids, popcorn and peanut vendors are insulted by your own comments.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:17 am
I think this thread has gotten so lengthy because there hasn’t been very many new posts lately…so we need to talk somewhere.
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