Comments on: Comparing Greatness: ‘05 Spurs vs. ‘08 Celtics

By: Gregg Popovich, the Spurs, and Tom Thibodeau | 48 Minutes of Hell

Gregg Popovich, the Spurs, and Tom Thibodeau | 48 Minutes of Hell — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:45:35 +0000

[...] all the offense available in Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Rajon Rondo, it was Boston’s stingy defense that overturned the Lakers’ apple cart in ‘07-08. The same stingy defense is needed for the Spurs to maneuver past the Lakers this [...]

By: SpurredOn

SpurredOn — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:24:10 +0000

The point made about West competition vs East competition made my point. Spurs consistently faced better opponents, both regular season and playoffs.

By: SAJKinBigD

SAJKinBigD — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:41:44 +0000

I know this is a little on the late side, but in that RJ interview when he made the comment about the Spus cheating, I think his humor is very tongue-in-cheek. Very dry. He and TD will get along fabulously!

On-Topic: I’ll take the ‘05 Spurs. They faced consistently better competition throughout their season and were more consistent overall, with fewer peaks and valleys, so to speak.

By: The Beat Counselor

The Beat Counselor — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 04:05:30 +0000

Ah, I forgot, we had Horry in 05 too. That should put us over the top in the 05 Spurs vs 08 Celtics.

As for ‘99 vs ‘05 Spurs, no way Elliot, Ellie and Johnson compare to Bowen, Ginobili and Parker on defense right? I’d like to hear what you think about this cuz ‘99 was a ways back…

By: The Beat Counselor

The Beat Counselor — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 03:45:15 +0000

I’m gonna chime in and say that the ‘99 Spurs definitely had the the best interior defense with a spry Duncan and a Robinson with a few years left.

The 05 Spurs had better team defense with Bowen and Ginobili in top form and Parker coming into his own (compared to the 03 Spurs). The frontline was weaker than 99 this year because Timmy was coming off an ankle injury and was noticeably slower. And even though Nazr Mohommad did a solid job that year for the Spurs, he’s no ‘99 Robinson. He’s not even an 03 Robinson.

As for ‘08 Celtics, I’d say they were right up there. The ‘08 Lakers (w/o Bynum or Ariza but with a productive Vujacic, Radmonovic and Farmar)
were a better team than the ‘99 Knicks, the ‘03 Nets and (probably) the ‘05 Pistons.

And remember, Kendrick Perkins was out for part of the 08 Finals as well.

The ‘08 Celtics front line was not as good as the ‘99 Spurs. No way Garnett and Perkins can compare to the Twin Towers in ‘99. On the other hand Garnett (defensive player of the year that year), Perkins and PJ Brown were probably about the same as ‘05 Duncan (slightly hobbled) and Mohammed.

‘08 Rondo and Pierce were GREAT defenders. I’d say it is a wash when you compare ‘05 Bowen and Parker. Bowen being the best of course, but remember the job Pierce did on Kobe? I’d give the slight edge to Rondo on the defensive end over Parker but it’s very close.

That leaves Ginobili vs. Ray Allen/James Posey. Tough. Tough. Tough. I’d go with Ginobli, but I’m biased

I love this topic, my favorite team vs. my second favorite team!

By: Rye

Rye — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:12:54 +0000

Graydon,

I guess I missed or glossed over the part about the hand check rules coming into effect after 03-04, but figured the link would be useful as a comparison anyway (between Lowe’s system and Hollinger’s). I’m still going with the ‘05 Spurs though. Some of the comments in this thread have only solidified that thought for me.

By: SpursfanSteve

SpursfanSteve — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:29:03 +0000

Thanks for sharing that RJ interview. sounds like he is fitting in great from a chemistry standpoint. lets hope that translates on the court. i’m pretty confident it will.

By: alamobro

alamobro — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:03:26 +0000

The`99 Spurs.

By: Jason

Jason — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:58:38 +0000

05 Spurs’ statistical record was IMO badly affected by that ugly ankle sprain Duncan sustained in the opening minutes of an away game in Detroit during March.

By: Bentley

Bentley — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:59:25 +0000

Definitely gonna have to go with the 05 Spurs. Although I’m not sure what kind of games were played when Boston had the 12-4 record against the Western Conference last year, but in the 2005 playoffs in every series (but Phoenix) the Spurs played a hard-nosed, grind it out defense that eventually wore down all their opponents, especially in the Detroit series, where scoring in the crucial games was in the 80’s and 90’s(and 70’s for game 7).
Meanwhile it took the Celtics 7 games for Atlanta and Cleveland, many of those games were high scoring affairs as well. They played pretty good defense in the Detroit series and versus LA they did as well, but in that Finals series I just think Boston overpowered them on the frontline. To me, it seemed like Boston relied on their Big 3’s offensive ablitiy and Kevin Garnett’s defensive ability to win games. The 05 Spurs also relied on their big 3, but it was more so their defense that propelled them.

By: SpursfanSteve

SpursfanSteve — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:33:34 +0000

I like the point that Jones makes. I would probably agree as far as a “defensive presence”, regardless of statistics, that was probably our best year.

By: Jones

Jones — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:08:20 +0000

I realize the parameters of discussion are only for the “non-hand checking era” (what a great descriptor) but I’m curious how the Spurs fared in the “hand check era”. Also, the original author implies that the “hand check era” was an aberration but I wonder if the “non-hand check era” could be considered normal basketball and the recent era is in fact the aberration, inspired, I would imagine, by a push from Stern and the league to keep scoring up and to “clean up the game” from any small threat of violence.

Back to defense. To me the greatest defensive team of all time is the 99 Spurs. I understand they played under different rules from what came later, but still, they played under the same rules as everybody else at the time. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 05 team was more efficient, but the 99 team was way more intimidating with two legitimate shot blockers and they were driven by a singular focus on defense,.

GG, I’m curious to read your thoughts on this issue.

By: Today’s Celtics Links 9/26 | Boston Sports Nation

Today’s Celtics Links 9/26 | Boston Sports Nation — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:03:42 +0000

[...] Report Jeremiah Rivers: The Best Player You Havn’t Heard Of 48 Minutes of Hell Comparing Greatness: ‘05 Spurs vs. ‘08 Celtics Real GM Pacers Extend Coach O’Brien’s Contract NECN Ray Allen: Focus on [...]

By: Graydon Gordian

Graydon Gordian — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:17:34 +0000

To play devil’s advocate, the ‘08 Celtics did go 12-4 against Western Conference playoff teams during the regular season, including regular season sweeps of the Lakers, Spurs, Houston and Dallas. Their Eastern Conference opponents may have been a bit less impressive, but they were impressive against the West’s top teams as well.

By: Tim C

Tim C — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:49:43 +0000

The conference bias is completely valid, IMO. I know we are supposedly throwing away the 2003-04 results, but look at the disparity between the East and West on offense that season:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standings?season=2004

If we look at the 2007-08 season, the offensive averages are even further tilted toward the Western teams.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standings?season=2008

I wish I could find the offensive efficiency ratings instead of going by PPG, as it would be more accurate. But the PPG stats show how dramatic the difference was between the conferences. That’s not to say that ‘08 Boston team didn’t have great team defense – they stopped the Lakers, after all – but they played 2/3 of their games against opponents from a statistically weaker conference.

Anyhow, let’s hope we can settle this once and for all in the 2010 Finals.