Thursday, November 19th, 2009...8:34 am
The Injury Bug Bites Hard
Yes, that’s a double entendre.
Jeff McDonald is reporting that Tony Parker is doubtful for this evening and Manu Ginobili won’t play.
I’m concerned about Tim Duncan.
He played 41 minutes last night in a toughly fought battle with Dallas. Tonight he must run through the gauntlet that is the Utah Jazz. And that knee brace, it’s big.
Maybe I’m just spooked by San Antonio’s seeming inability to get healthy. By the myriad of injuries Manu Ginobili continues to suffer. By the fact that Tony Parker has sprained his ankles more times than I can count. Something’s gotta give.
This is a question one hates to ask of a team on the wrong side of .500, but should the Spurs rest Tim Duncan this evening? The team is in the midst of three games in four days. And despite their offseason efforts to young it up, they’re still the oldest team in basketball at a collective 29.2 years.
Duncan, for all the talk of decline, is playing great basketball this season. He’s still in that elite cluster of elite bigs. But he started strong last year too, and the long season ground his numbers down with each successive month. His knees were worse for wear. No one in San Antonio is eager to see the Spurs repeat that pattern. The roster is radically remade, but this season has an unmistakable tinge of deja vu. We’ve seen this movie before.
Should Pop sit the Franchise on back-to-backs?
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53 Comments
November 19th, 2009 at 8:39 am
yes, rest him. I doubt we beat the Jazz the way that we’re playing anyways-no need to put more wear and tear on the knees.
I’m more concerned that the more time the big 3 spend out, the less time the team has to jell. This rough start could end up with us on the Laker’s side of the bracket, on the road in the playoffs.
If we get to the playoffs, that is.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:41 am
I will now light myself on fire… again.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:50 am
Tim,
I said this summer the Spurs should bench Tim and Manu on back to backs and I still think they should.
I understand that any Spurs team missing Tim, Manu and Tony faces a tough night on the floor, but I also think these kind of situations are the situations that forge the bond among players.
Pop should enter the locker room tonight saying to the players that the big 3 are out, the record is bad and that, since the circumstances cannot be changed, they will have to get a win against a good team only relying on themselves. The players need to develop a siege mentality for the future.
Maybe it would work just like that game against the Nuggets last year.
Best,
Nick
November 19th, 2009 at 9:10 am
I hate saying this but…wish tiago was here this year.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:10 am
I think Nick’s reference to the Nuggets game last year is absolutely right on point. The Spurs were pretty well handled by Utah a few weeks ago. I’m not an alarmist about how things have gone so far this season — even though I suggested prior to the RJ trade that trading Tony might have been the Spurs’ best chance at getting enough pieces around Tim to win another championship before he retired, I’m not one of the people that’s suggesting he be traded or benched in favor of George Hill or any of the other nonsense that’s been floating around. Most of us understood that this team would sputter out of the gate and endure some peaks and troughs before things leveled out at a high level. There’s no need to panic. Nonetheless, I a drastic mix up in tonight’s lineup would be a good idea.
Now, I will acknowledge the point others have made that if Haslip, Mahinmi, and Hairston were playing well enough in practice, then Pop would be playing them in games over guys like Finley, Bogans, etc. However, playing in a real game is different than practice — some guys just find a way to take it to a different level during a game than they ever could in practice. The young/new guys deserve a chance (just like in Denver last year) to show what they can do with full minutes (i.e. not just a few garbage minutes) in a real game against a quality opponent. Tonight might be as good a night as any to give them that chance.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Rest Timmy; give Jefferson some more responsibility. It’ll let him feel more confident about his importance to the team.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:29 am
It seems to me the best chance to surround TD with players capable of winning him one more title before he goes to pasture is to tank this year so they get the top pick next year…just like they did when they drafter Duncan and paired him with David Robinson.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Rest him on back-to-backs? Broadly, no. It should be a situational decision. Rest him tonight? Yes. Go small, give the other guys playing time and see what they do.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Not today, we need a W tonight. We are losing a lot of ground. And if last year taught us anything, it is that we need home-court advantage. I expect Pop to play Tim no more than 30 minutes tonight - that’s the way to go. And let’s hope that Blair gets more burn.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Utah is historically almost unbeatable at home - not so much on the road. They are typically a very poor road team and haven’t won in San Antonio in a decade.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:41 am
No, play the young guns. This is a very win able game. The Spurs need to bring the D and they should be fine.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I’m more concerned about health than wins/losses right now. Duncan was wincing a couple of times last night, if there’s anything the slightest bit off today he should sit tonight.
Duncan’s knees are chronic, and there doesn’t seem to be anything to help except the brace and the change in his routine he implemented this summer. Rest is part of it. Too much grind and we will see him fade like last season.
Duncan always wants to play if he can. I trust Pop to make the right choice for the long run.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Yes, rest Duncan and sit Finley on the bench next to him.
Play young guys, press, play hard, coach them hard, make it a real effort, try and get something good out of this game since it’s clearly worthless as far as developing cohesion among your best players.
Start Hill, Bogans, Jefferson, Blair, McDyess. Bring Mason, Hairston, Haislip, Bonner, Mahinmi off the bench.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:33 am
I may be in the minority but I’m not worried about the record. I don’t like being winless on the road but I expected this team to be at .500 after ten to twelve games. I also expect them to play well above that going forward so we shall see. The injury bug is making the already difficult task of this team finding cohesion even more problematic. That their two best ball handlers are out cost them a win last night and may do so again.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I think he should play maybe 15 min so he can get used to the new guys. But this game is up to RJ, GH3, Blair, and the new blood to win.
May even be good to give Mahimi/Haslip some minutes. In fact, I don’t think Hairston did that bad in the game last night.
Lets see what the youngsters can do….
November 19th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Pop doesn’t necessarily need to inactivate the big 3 in every back-to-backs. But he definitely needs to reduce their minutes. There’s absolutely no point in resting a guy just so he can play 40+ minutes the next night. Having said that, Duncan needs a rest tonight. If he or any of the big 3 goes down with an injury, San Antonio’s quest for championship is effectively over.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
looks like pop will have no choice but to give hariston, mahinmi/haislip some minutes. this could be a silver lining. we need their hunger and athleticism. they will make mistakes, but we can’t be any worse and pop has to be patient if we want to improve our team. we look liftless and anemic.
timmy deserves the night off. even though duncan got that awsome banker to send it to o.t., drew gooden spent most of the night making him look like kwami brown. anyone think we should have kept gooden rather than mcdyess? he is much more potent offesnively and his defense would have improved. we still need a 6′11 plus to guard the rim (mahinmi?).
i did see alot of hustle last night and we played hard without manu and timmy, but i agree.
i feel like i’m watching the same movie, too and it got a 1 out of 5
November 19th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
What about Antonio Daniels? He’s stable, mature, generally takes care of the ball, and already knows most of these guys.
While it might sound like we need a 3rd string PG, it’s really more like a part-time permanent 2nd string PG since it looks like Parker has a permanently wobbly wheel.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
I see no problem at all with sitting Timmy. That’s why we went out and got Blair and McDyess this summer. The extra PT can only help to get those two better inculcated with what we do. Blair, especially, needs to continue to get as much PT whenever possible given how big he could be for us come the playoffs. Actually, if he’s going to get major burn, Utah isn’t such a bad team to do it against. Blair would have his hands full with Boozer on d, but on offense, he could really put up a big #s given that neither Boozer nor Milsap is exactly stopper material.
As far as our current record is concerned, of course, we can’t afford to just throw games away for no reason, but consider how many new faces we brought in this summer and how much Pop forced the big 3 to rest in the off-season. I’ve thought that as long as we can hang around at least at .500 come January when you can reasonably expect the new guys to really be in-sync with everyone else, we should be fine.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
i take back what i said about timmy. he was brilliant. PLAY IAN MAHINIMI AND MALIK HAIRSTON, DAMNIT!
November 19th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
@rj - No Gooden, no thank you. He had a nice night. He’s known for having very respectable scoring games in the regular season. He’s also not the guy I want for the full 82 plus playoffs. I’ll happily take Gooden having 13 shots whenever we play the Mavs, as those are shots Dirk and Terry are not taking. Despite his hustle and scoring, Mavs scored 84 in regulation and SA lost due to turnovers on the Mavs’ court.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I do think they should bench Tim in games that could possibly cause injury, like tonight.
We’re only going to be a great team if our veterans are healthy and some of our young players have a breakout season. Hill is showing promises but we need Blair and someone else to become legitimate players this season for us to win a championship. With all the talent around the league, it seems crazy to think that the Big 3 will be enough, especially because of their age and injuries, which we’re already aware of 8 games into the season.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I’d take McDyess over Gooden 7 days a week.
Hopefully Macus can be activated (or Ian) to get some time. And hopefully Malik continues to get some time.
Sucks that we have to see extended minutes for Mason Jr. at the 1 though.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Don’t forget that the Jazz are coming off a game last night as well and that they struggle on the road.
I say Pop should limit Duncan’s minutes and let RJ prove his offensive prowess. But I trust Pop and am curious to see how things play out tonight. Go Spurs Go!
November 19th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I am seriously worried about Manu. He hasn’t been healthy since the conference semis against the Hornets two seasons ago. He finally took the entire summer off and I really did believe that would get him back to 100%, but here we are not even 10 games into the season and he is out.
I am beginning to believe this is a Peja Stojakovic situation where you have a great player who gets injured and never fully recovers. (Oddly enough they are the same age). I know Manu is a top 5 SG in the league, but that doesn’t do any good if he’s on the bench for a third or half the season. I’ve heard people say, “We can just rest him in the regular season and play him come May and June.” My question is this, If his health can’t hold up against teams in the regular season, how is it going to hold up in the playoffs against more physical and talented teams?
Here’s the point: somewhere down the line the front office is going to have to ask is it better to have a semi-healthy Manu for 66% of the games or is it better to trade his $11 million expiring contract to get a player who may contribute a little less for 100% of the games? Unless Manu can get healthy and contribute soon, my vote is for the latter.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
I for one am a little worried about this record. Yes I understand that we’re not off to a great start, but I think you would figure by now that the team should have some sort of consistency, and thats lacked so far. We can’t wait until mid February for that to happen.
Rest Duncan tonight. It feels as if the offense isn’t very fluent when him and Parker are back because they havent played in a 5 man lineup as a cohesive unit for very long. In the games they sat out, the Spurs were pretty good offfensively, and their offense did not become stagnant. Hello 131 points.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Trade Manu? Did we learn nothing from the ridiculous trade suggestions in here a couple of days ago. Look, there’s no way the Spurs could get anything even remotely approaching Manu’s production(even if it is limited to half the time) in return for him. Not to mention that Manu is the most popular player among Spurs fans by far, which would mean alienating the fan base.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Yup, play the youth. Trophies aren’t won on November.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
It would definitely benefit the fact that I just picked up Matt Bonner in my fantasy league.
This is BY FAR, the best Spurs blog I have ever read. Eloquent and rational, with the Spurs biased twist. Keep up the great work.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Tim C,
So you mean to tell me that for almost $11 million per year we couldn’t get anything close the 14 points and 4 assists per game that he is averaging this year WHEN he plays? That’s ridiculous! There are plenty of other holes in the roster that have been discussed at length in these forums that could be plugged with that kind of money. “Alienating the fanbase?” What about the fanbase that becomes more disenfranchised as the injuries and losses continue to pile up?
This is the problem with fans. They live in the past and can’t give up the memories of the good ole days. The good ole days of the big 3 winning championships and staying healthy are apparently over. Manu is 32 yrs old, has played overseas for years before coming to the NBA, played for his national team during the summers, played extended NBA seasons, etc. The tread on his tires is thin. I’m afraid this loyalty to Manu (while largely deserved) is the equivalent to chaining oneself to a sinking ship.
Manu was shut down last April, I believe, to heal and rest. That means he had almost 7 months of virtually nothing before he’s out again 8 games into the season. You’ve been warned, but the writing is on the wall…
November 19th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Question: If Ginobili can’t play the 4th qtr, why would he be able to start a game? Why wasn’t he out 2 weeks already?
I’ll keep repeating what I said in the off season. Pop needs to give players set minutes. For example, Duncan plays the 1st 8 minutes of the 1st and 3rd qtr’s and the last 8 min of the 2nd and 4th qtr’s. That way Duncan won’t play more than 32 min a night, 37 if OT and he can play back to backs. Or make it 6 min stretches so only 24 in the 1st night of a back to back, or the 2nd night.
McDyess and Ginobili(now hurt, plug a player in his place like Hairston) play only the last 6 min of every qtr.
Get a set schedule. That way minutes are rationed. That way players get a set expectation of when(and how often) they’ll play. That way players are guaranteed to be on the floor at the same time and get used to each other.
After a 5 game stretch, change the rotation a little to get others to play together.
We should be playing 11 players a night, at least 12 minutes each. We have that kind of depth. We have that many old guys liable to get hurt with big minutes. We have that many new guys that need to see time on the floor to speed up the learning process of the Spurs system.
The idea may seem unconventional. But, unconventional situations, 7 new players, 5 of top 12 over 33 years old require bold action.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Hello everyone,
As David Thorpe says, “That’s a ban”
Yes, sit Duncan - he can not play more than 30 minutes anyway.
Having fresh TD is much more important than having the home court. And if the other 11 guys won’t make the playoffs without TD - then we don’t have any chance for the title anyway.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
I think you guys are a bit confused regarding what’s best for Duncan. What is best for him is NOT playing 40 minutes one night and then sitting out the next night. What’s best for him is playing less minutes EVERY night. Kind of like in soccer how a star may come out at the 60minute mark, or enter the game on the 60-minute mark when rest is needed.
Sit Duncan tonight? Are you guys crazy? Sit your best player and lose the game? Just play him less minutes, say 25minutes a night at the most.
And i’ve said this before and i’ll say it again, WHY THE HELL IS BLAIR NOT GETTING MORE TIME! I have the utmost respect for Pop, but this is really starting to vex me. Am i biased because i’ve been picking up Blair off and on for my fantasy team? I don’t think so. Blair is a SERIOUS player who will only get better with playing time. Why play fossils like Mcdyess/Ratliff who are too old to even be effective in D-league games? Play Blair 30+ minutes a night dammit.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
I think that Pop is playing us all, I think saying one or two of the big three is injured is just a way to rest them throughout the season without upsetting the fans who pay for the tickets. I’m fine with it but im not worried about the teams record I almost didn’t get NBA league pass because I knew we wouldn’t be very good until mid feb. but I would rather watch my team lose than not watch the. Pop could put me, kwame brown, robert tractor trailer, sam bowie and Timmy on a team and we would still make the playoffs.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Resting TD and Manu on 2nd set of back to backs might be a good idea. This early though the new players needs to get used with TD on the floor.
Hopefully we can get back on track the soonest.
This 4-6 start is bothering, 5-10 games more we should see a lot of improvements.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Kaveh-
i dont think Blair has the stamina to play that much right now. From what i’ve seen, in the games he has logged major minutes, hes gotten winded. Just a thought. He definitely should be getting more than he is though.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:26 am
Blair is really inconsistent on D, so you can only have him out their for limited amounts of time, especially with some teams (at least until he learns to utilize his body on the defensive end).
November 20th, 2009 at 9:50 am
[...] Timothy Varner of 48 Minutes of Hell: “I’m concerned about Tim Duncan. He played 41 minutes last night in a toughly fought battle with Dallas. Tonight he must run through the gauntlet that is the Utah Jazz. And that knee brace, it’s big.” [...]
November 20th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Hi everyone. My name is Rafael Nieto. I am a Spurs addict.
The truth is I care too much. Too much for my own good, it seems. The Spurs are very important to me. OK, I’m going to repeat that. The San Antonio Spurs are very important to me. I love them. I love everything about them. I now see that it is a problem. At least at times it is. My beautiful girlfriend does not like it when they lose. Not because she actually gives a damn, but because I stop caring about anything. I get in a bad mood. Sometimes I throw things during games when we’re playing badly. During the final minutes of last night’s game I screamed. I screamed so loud that I sincerely thought that my neighbors were going to come knocking on my door and ask what was happening. Luckily, they didn’t.
Whenever we are on a good stretch and winning games and everyone is rolling, life is good. Life is fantastic! And when we win championships?! forget about it! But, when we are on bad stretch, i.e. right freakin’ now! Life is gloomy. And it doesn’t help that the weather in San Antonio today (11/20/09) is in fact, gloomy. The past two nights I have taken 45 minutes to finally fall asleep - and I’m a fast sleeper… seriously I am. 45 minutes is an eternity for me.
I’m worried about these guys. I’m sick and tired of Manu and Tony being injured so much, especially Manu! But, I also know that it is not their fault.
It is just that we are so much better than this! I know it!
In the past, during bad stretches, I always found that breaking things would make the pain go away. For example, throwing the remote control straight into the wall. I’m past that. That’s stupid because it costs money to repair both the wall and to buy a new remote control. Now? Now I just scream from the top of my lungs, or is it the bottom of my heart? The thing is that it scares my girlfriend. And what has my girlfriend ever done? She’s there for support. She knows that it hurts me, emotionally drowns me, to see our Spurs like this. And so she supports me. But my reaction to the Spurs losing worries her.
What should I do? Please, any advice would help.
Anyways, now more than ever… Go Spurs Go!
November 20th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Rafa, I think you need therapy hahaha
No but seriously I’m the same way. I’m in shock. I don’t know what the hell is wrong with the Spurs. I find myself making lame excuses all the time. Could it be that I need to remove my Spurs goggles and admit (gulp!) that they just aren’t good enough? I was talking to my friend Rafa (crazy guy above) and told him this team reminds me of last year’s Rockets. We knew they sucked, but Houstonians could have sworn it was their year. They had Rockets goggles on but everyone else knew they couldn’t hang with the big boys.
Now, I feel like we have the best roster in the league. I just don’t know what the hell is wrong! Killer instinct? Interior defense? Injuries? Heart? Talent? Do we need a trade? Why is Pop throwing different starting lineups out there? Do we need size? Youth?
Too many questions and not enough answers. It’s only been 10 games, but I’m as worried as can be. I love my Spurs though, and will continue to support them day in and day out.
GO SPURS GO!
November 20th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
We’ve only completed 10% of the season. Would everyone quit being so bloody dramatic? Start worrying if we’re sub .500 at the All-Star break. Until then, chillax and enjoy basketball.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Rafa,
Please relax immediately. I understand how sports can get under our skin. A couple years ago when the Lakers lost in the finals, I actually got upset for a couple of days. This should NEVER happen. It is just a game first of all. Second of all, it’s not like I get anything if they win.
Sports are for entertainment purposes only. There are much more important things in life than winning or losing in sports. Like for instance having a fun time! Enjoying YOURSELF.
You are not a Spur, you don’t own the team. In fact, the Spurs organization could care less about you. So why care so much about them? Your life should be #1 for YOU. Concentrate on fullfilling your own life. Be selfish. Enjoy yourself.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
this is not our year,spurs will be in the buttom this year..that means,spurs will get no.2 or no.3 draft pick!..
November 20th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
here’s a question i keep asking myself over and over and over again: why are mahinmi, haislip, and hairston sitting behind the bench in street clothes when they provide us with the athleticism that we need? and why the f@#$ are we starting bonner? this crap is seriously getting old really fast. where’s pj carlesimo when you need him.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Any trade that happens in the short run is likely to involve Roger Mason, packaged with either Mahinmi or Bonner- how about for Shane Battier? the rockets could use a center, with their current starter being 6′6″
November 21st, 2009 at 7:12 am
The time is now to give the newcomers more minutes. We need Blair & Hairston at a minimum playing like seasoned teammates before the end of December. We need the boards and the added penetration. It is early in the season and if Pop has already started to trust only the veteran players then there is not much hope for the youngsters on this team.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:22 am
So J, you think the Rockets want to trade a proven winner who is the rock of their team for a guy who doesn’t dress, a guy who doesn’t start and a guy who wouldn’t start anywhere else in the league?
November 21st, 2009 at 10:05 am
Alright now I’m just pitchin’ ideas right now, but what about Iverson? We could ship Mason off somewhere for a second round draft pick or something, and If AI is playing on a Championship caliber team like the Spurs have the potential to be than he could play for the better.
I mean we want Manu to come off the bench, so starting AI would make sense, and that way we could keep George Hill as the backup point guard.
What are yall’s thoughts?
November 21st, 2009 at 11:35 am
Alright DNITCH….. SPURS fans are in a weird place right now. We’re sitting south of 0.500, two of the big three are already injured and the BIG Fundamental is playing way more minutes than anybody anticipated right now. Why you gotta dangle the “Iverson” question right now?? Hmm… you know, he did play with Duncan and Pop on the 04 Olympic team and what the SPURS can really use right now is energy and heart in that starting line-up…. NOOOO!
November 21st, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Iverson would kill the spurs. Anyone who brings him or Lebron up as potential answers to our problems should get banned.
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:34 am
…The Lakers destroyed the Thunder last night. They are a very, very good team and all Spurs fans and the FO should be very concerned about how we match up. If we can’t beat the Lakers we can’t win the West, or the Championship: LA isn’t going to lose in the first round like the Mavs in 07.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:03 am
Tim & Graydon,
It has been 4 days…we need a new post from you guys. Hope all is well.
December 8th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Tim & Graydon,
It has been 4 days…we need a new post from you guys. Hope all is well.
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