Saturday, December 5th, 2009...7:33 am
CelticsHub on World Champions
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Zach Lowe of CelticsHub has posted a thought-provoking piece on the meaning of winning an NBA championship within the global context. His inspiration: Gregg Popovich.
I suspect that many of our readers can add to the conversation in the piece’s comment thread. Have at it.
27 Comments
December 5th, 2009 at 7:54 am
i find it really annoying, because there’s a world championship that’s almost as old as the nba.
December 5th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Not exactly thought-provoking.
I do agree that “NBA Champions” is more accurate, but is there ANY team in the world, club or national, that could plausibly defeat the NBA champions in a best-of-7 series?
Heck, we could have sent the 2003-2004 Detroit Pistons—all Americans, aside from a rookie Darko—to the Olympics and easily won the gold medal. Likewise, I think an argument can be made that the 2007-2008 Boston Celtics—again, all Americans—were better than the 2008 Dream Team.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Yes, B.D., US national team will defeat NBA champions with any rules, and it’s not given that Lakers will beat Spanish National Team (current world champions) with Pau playng for Spain (do you imagine Pau playing for Lakers in this case), especially with FIBA rules. “World champion” is not a club title, it’s title for national team, as in every sport in the world.
December 5th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
At the Olympics in 2004 the US national team didn’t do well. I don’t see why the Detroit Pistons would have won.
December 5th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Yes, I believe the 03-04 Pistons would win the Olympics that year. Maybe…It was Argentina that won it that year
. It says in that article that the NBA made the Spurs change the banners from “World Champions” to “NBA Champions” How the hell does this make any sense at all when it seems all the other championship banners weren’t manipulated in any way. Pop’s a badass.
December 5th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Spurs as they are playing now SUCK! I’m a big time Spurs fan and have been for the past ten years. But, man this team is just playing awful. No confidence from any players.
Pop is being too conservative, by sitting his best players during critical games. NBA players need to build up their confidence during the season to succeed in the playoffs. Start Ginobli! Play Duncan + Parker + McDyess + Jefferson 30+ minutes consistently.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Tony Parker with 6 unforced turnovers, Bonner missing open 3’s against good competition, and Ginobili looking old and slow.
I’ll be shocked if the Spurs get past the 1st round of the playoffs.
Spurs wasted their money on Jefferson and McDyess(scoreless in last 3 games?!?). Why isn’t Ratliff playing?
December 5th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
stop panicking.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:48 am
Being from Europe I always found it quite arrogant and intriguing that a lot of NBA champions referred to themselves as World Champions, which is just wrong, because they haven’t won a world cup, they won a national championship. Yes, the NBA is, without a doubt by far the best basketball league in the world and yes, an NBA champion would beat every basketball team outside the US in a championship, but other countries have good ballclubs too. It is simply arrogant and wrong to just ignore other teams outside the NBA! Pop is absolutely right to criticize teams who call themselves World Champs..
December 6th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
oh my god, this argument AGAIN?
Look, i’m not sure how to explain to you politically correct loonies out there but here i go:
1) The NBA is not just AMERICAN players. The NBA is about the BEST players from around the world.
2) Thus, the NBA championship is about the best basketball team or club in the world. This is not an international competition where everyone plays on their country. This is about club basketball.
There is no way at all that any team can beat an NBA team. I even heard someone above say, well if you take Pau off of the Lakers and put him on the Spanish team then the lakers MAY lose. First off, Pau is the 2nd best player on the lakers. That’s his TEAM. That’s where his paycheck comes from. That’s who has ownership rights over his play. Why would you take him OFF of his team? Furthermore, even if you did that, the Lakers would destroy Spain in a 7 game series.
I’m not sure why people cannot understand this. It is not about being politically correct. Everyone in the world understands that the NBA is not about American players but about the best in the world. This is where the best in the world come to play. Thus, it is a world championship.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:32 am
Man, best players around the world, in NBA? Talk about the ignorance some of these Americans have…
Except for maybe some top-notch super star players, there are plenty of great players around the world that do not play for an NBA team - be it due to the personal reasons, salary issues, whatever - that can easily become a star in NBA if they ever played in the league. Now I do believe NBA has some of the best basketball teams in the world, but it’s plain ignorant or arrogant even, to assume that all the players in the league are the world-best. For example, I’d say Josh Childress can play a lot better than some of the average players (starters included) in the NBA, but guess where he plays now… Not NBA that’s for sure.
Lastly, World champs? To not have played hundreds of other teams in many other leagues, and claim themselves as the World champs, is simply misleading. More accurate term would be ‘North American champs’ or simply ‘NBA champs’.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:59 am
It does suck losing two in a row like we’ve done, but have you looked at the schedule in December?
It’s really nice. Lots of Eastern Conference teams, and none of the other four among the League’s Big 5 (LA, Boston, Cleveland, Orlando, and the Spurs).
I predict a 10-3 record (quite possibly even better) in the month of December, at which point the Spurs will be 19-11 heading into January. That’s not too awful.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:43 am
Kaveh>> your argument is precisely the reason for this article. It is simplistic reasoning of yours that lead to your conclusion which I will deconstruct for you
1. Best players in the World? I think Ian has highlighted to you that not all best players in the World plays in the NBA. In any case, what makes you so sure of that? Players do not come to NBA because it is in USA. They chase the money. If the American dollar keeps devaluing (its happening already and it will continue due to your huge fiscal deficit) and the Euro League get more sponsorships, I can bet that more and more of your college players will skip NBA and play in Europe. Its a capitalist market out there and the climate is changing.
2. Lakers do not own Pau Gasol. Just like you are not owned by your company (if you are working). You will not walk around, saying that you are a Microsoftian or AIG’ean but you will call yourself an American. Spot the difference? Franchises are companies, capital-driven and not at all, deserving to be called World Champion after winning a local league.
All in all, this is one of the reasons I love the Spurs. The humble nature of the good people of this franchise makes it easy for non-US citizen like myself to appreciate the Spurs.
December 7th, 2009 at 2:14 am
@Kaveh,
I think this is not about the players in it, nor the level of the game, but about where it is. More precisely what nationality the clubs (franchises) are referred as. NBA teams are all in the US/Canada, and owned by US or Canadian people/groups. And you don’t make a world out of just two countries. It’s plain simple, and loonie as I am, I still can understand that.
I guess your point is valid from some point a view (best players in the word, from everywhere in the world: world championship). What bothers many of those who don’t see things the way you do is that outside of the US, you won’t find any national league calling their champion “world champion”.
The N in NBA stands for National, not for International.
The NBA champ is the best team in the world? I’m 99% sure of that. Is the NBA champ the world champ? No, because they simply don’t play in a world championship or anything close to it, they play in a national league.
I understand many call such things just semantics, and they are absolutely right. But world champ for an NBA champ is just false (semantically speaking).
Numerous soccer players from south America compete in the Champion’s League (Europe). Still the winner of the Champion’s League cannot declare himself “world champion” (I guess this would start a war between Brazil and Europe), even if the Champion’s League is the best competition.
Another thing: about comparing national squads to NBA teams. If you give any USA bball team one training camp and 82 games, I’m quite sure they would beat anybody in front of them, NBA team or not, comes the playoffs. Well, obviously that’s hardly doable in reality because you’d probably have at least one player listed on both the NBA and the USA roster.
Another “another thing”: if one says “NBA world champ” and implies champion of the “NBA world”, he might not be wrong.
semantically.
hum.
December 7th, 2009 at 7:15 am
I have a problem with last game’s either coaching or decisions. Timmy usually shoots about 18 or more shots a game, in most cases shooting at about 50+%. This game Timmy shot only 12 shots making 10 of them. Now, why the heck didn’t we feed the hot hand, he was on fire and we only let him shoot 12 times, no reason for that. Timmy kept punishing Nene, why do we get away from what’s working at a specific game, just don’t get it… Yes i like that we share the ball, but damn 10 of 12, I would have had him shoot 35.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:34 am
JT, there’s one thing I’ve said more than anything else during the last 12 years, during the good and bad times, and it’s been “Dangit guys! Get the ball to Tim!” We need to force opponents to respect/double Duncan to open everything else up. No offense to Manu and Tony, but our offense needs to run through Tim Duncan when he is on the floor.
December 7th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
stop crying all of you!
December 7th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Tim or Graydon, can somebody write something inspirational? Because I’m so frustrated and angry with the Spurs. I really am.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Wow, 1 game on the road all season… After a great off-season…. well thats all that’s been great. I’m to the point of not watching anymore. This is embarrassing, can I ask all the ones who say we should just how long we should wait for this team to be decent. Will we make the playoffs, yeah, but thats not saying much. We let a 15 point advantage go by and then decided to play again. Jefferson SUCKS, Ginobili seems to be done, he looks ancient, weak, confused and lost. Our so up and coming defense let the Jazz have a party of our paint, and had twice as many assists as we did. To the comments of the spurs having a good schedule in December by beating weak opponents, it doesn’t make me feel better. Horrible, horrible, wonder what Bufford is thinking now, all the money spent, and fans all ticked off…
December 7th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
DanielB…agreed.
Looking at the schedule the next 17 games are ones that the Spurs can win, until the 12th of January when we play the Lakers at home.
The eternal optimist in me says we could be 26-9 in a month’s time!! The realist in me says we could be 23-12 in a month with possible losses to Phoenix, Dallas and one other team. That’s the good news…the bad news is that we still won’t know if we can beat the best teams…but heck we may gain some much needed confidence along the way.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Why was Tony Parker guarding Derron Williams in the 3rd qtr and not Wes Mathews? He got torched, scorched, and abused! They scored 37 pts in the 3rd.
Then Ginobili off the bench, airball 3 pointer, Ginobili 4 on 3 - 3 point hoist brick in the corner instead of shooting a layup, and 1st possession in crunch time… a turnover! dribbling into traffic
Duncan’s 1st possession in crunch time… a turnover! Popovich should have stuck with the team that got them back in the game. Even if it meant Duncan and Ginobili on the bench. The win should’ve taken priority over hurting the superstars feelings of being on the bench, especially Ginobili!
Popovich did a good job of benching players right away for mistakes. Parker for not hustling around screens, Bogans for a stupid pass to the backcourt, Mason for a crosscourt pass, etc.
Hill is not a defensive on the ball player. He keeps inviting layups by getting out of the way anticipating screens that aren’t there!
No way the Spurs should have lost that game to the Jazz.
December 7th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Spurs suck this season. No way can they beat the Lakers, Boston, Orlando or even the Hawks.
How are they supposed to compete for a championship? Don’t give me the crap of it’s taking a while to integrate all these new players. Boston did it in 08!
December 7th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
I still have confidence that this team will eventually gel and become the elite team that everyone is hoping it to be. The last three games just proved one thing - that this team just isn’t ready to take on the better teams in the league yet. The fact that the losses came at 7 or less points differential, I’d say the team is getting there, albeit slowly. It’s still way too early to panic, I think.
December 8th, 2009 at 4:55 am
They need to stop turning the ball over. They’ve been a problem all season, whether we’re winning or losing. It’s no wonder that it makes more of a difference against big teams. Tony’s been having a hell of a time protecting the ball lately. Whether that’s a lack of communication with his new teammates or just poor play, I expect him to improve. But I hope they’re all working on it.
December 8th, 2009 at 6:28 am
Spurs lack swagger, attitude, and damn it… energy…. we have yet to play a full 48 minutes. 3rd quarter was embarrassing, when our top scorer is Bonner and not just from the 3 point line… you know we have a problem…. (and more power to Red-Rocket) What is going on with Ginobili? at this point I even doubt he could be traded, he turns the ball over more often than not and is just fragile and all over the place. McDyess cannot shoot a layup, if he isn’t open at 15ft, then forget it, he can’t make a shot. Hairston goes to the Toros and plays very well, we recall him and play him a whole 44secs. He will be another Scola, who will be gone and play great for another team. To those thinking that we will win next 17 games…. WHAT? Which Spurs have you been watching? If we do not get another big that can score, (because we don’t have one, McDyess is there for uhmm uhmm “defense”), we do not have a chance at beating the Lakers at all… and this is just reality as much as I hate it.
December 8th, 2009 at 7:29 am
Really, a running jump hook/flip by Bonner is the best play we can run out of the timeout to win the game? I’m not saying he should not be the one taking the last shot, but making him put it on the floor against Boozer?!?! Why isn’t our PG fighting through screens to get the ball and run an offensive set? Do you think if the situations were reversed that Deron Williams would let Mehmet Okur take a shot like that? Because that is what essential happened.
December 8th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers.
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