Wednesday, December 16th, 2009...8:31 am
The Spurs Might Be Broke
In today’s Daily Dime, John Hollinger picks up on a few themes that are popular to 48MoH this season. We’ve recently written that this year’s Spurs team is Tim Duncan and too little of everyone else. Hollinger agrees:
…Tim Duncan is playing unbelievably well. On Tuesday, he had 34 points, his most since scoring 40 in a double-overtime thriller against this same Suns team in Game 1 of the 2008 playoffs. It was an efficient 34, too, as he shot a stellar 14-of-22 from the floor. Yet it still wasn’t nearly enough — the Spurs lost by double figures as his teammates shot only 40.6 percent from the floor.
And then Hollinger picks on Richard Jefferson:
…Jefferson was awful. He dunked on a sweet baseline drive on the Spurs’ second trip and then disappeared the rest of the night, to the point that the Spurs kept him on the bench for the final 6:05 and used Roger Mason in his place.
Oh, and much like Spurs fans everywhere, the good professor wonders about San Antonio’s defense:
I can’t remember seeing a Duncan-era defense lit up the way it was in the second quarter Tuesday. Phoenix scored 39 points, en route to getting 67 for the half, and built the lead up to 20 points early in the third quarter before the Spurs mounted a too-little, too-late comeback. This was doubly notable because it came against the Suns — a club the Spurs normally defend as well as any team in the league.
These three themes have found steady play at 48MoH since the first week of the season. The question before the team is not simply “How to clean up this mess?” No, that’s a follow up question. The primary question before the team is “What kind of mess is this?” The answer isn’t obvious.
This current Spurs team has played together for all of 22 games. “Give them time,” that’s what the Spurs faithful likes to say. But I’m not convinced that’s the kind of sober-minded reflection needed to right this ship. Gregg Popovich issued a “no more excuses” mandate earlier this week, saying “we’ve taken enough time.”Still, the fan-boy knee-jerk amongst the Spurs crowd is a plea for patience.
The “give it time line” is starting to sound a little too much like the life-long smoker who is to happy to tell you about his Uncle Tom-the uncle who lived to 95 and smoked a pack a day. Such anecdotes are rehearsed with dismissive glee right up to the moment your friend, the smoker, is diagnosed with lung cancer. After last night’s game, Manu Ginobili said, “I’m not sure if it’s just chemistry. We’re not playing well.” Manu Ginobili doesn’t want to tell you about his lucky uncle; Manu Ginobili wants to quit smoking.
The Spurs’ front office is in a tough spot: they have until February to figure out if this roster possesses the right mix of players to legitimately compete for a championship. Given San Antonio’s difficulty beating quality opponents, it’s a fair question to ask. Is this simply a will-fix-itself-in-time chemistry issue, or are there bigger problems at play?
Here’s the issue, put differently: if the Spurs shake up the roster between now and February, they’ll prolong the new-faces learning curve and introduce even more discontinuity to a team already facing at least some chemistry issues. A major shake-up would seem to compound any of those problems. But, of course, this current Spurs team is on a short clock. Patience must be held in balance against the reality of imminent decline.
If Ginobili’s suspicion is correct-that there is something more than a chemistry issue at play-the Spurs will have no choice but to examine more radical measures, especially in light of their short championship window, a rapidly aging core, and a pregnant-with-tax payroll.
Having said that, the Spurs are not far from legitimate contention. The Spurs are playing poorly relative to expectation, but John Hollinger’s magic calculator still ranks them as the 6th best team in the league. They’re ranked ahead of every Western Conference team, save the Lakers. Yes, the Spurs are underachieving. Their kind of underachievement is enough to give them even odds to make it to the Western Conference Finals.
But everybody knows the Spurs don’t fix their eyes on finishing second in the conference, and life in San Antonio is fairly meaningless if it’s not lived in the winner’s circle. You don’t go neck deep into tax to finish a notch below. So either the Spurs need to dramatically improve their play, or the team’s button pushers will have to make a sharp, decisive move to correct the problem. It’s probably never been true before, but it is now. The Spurs’ future is on the line, at least the Spurs as we’ve known them for the last decade.
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66 Comments
December 16th, 2009 at 8:46 am
People do like to give the “the spurs are normally slow starters excuse”, but even in the past, slow starts were accompanied by the Spurs’ trademark identity. They were a good defensive team in short. This team, it’s just mediocre. Good enough to get in the playoffs, but not good enough to win it all. Do you really think the Lakers wouldn’t blow out this Spurs team right now in 4 games? Same time, they’re not bad enough to get a significant foundation player. Bad place to be in.
What happens when the rodeo comes and the spurs are still playing like this? Sitting and waiting for doom, that’s what, because it will be too late then
December 16th, 2009 at 9:11 am
The Spurs will not mess with the team with free-agency, they never have, and they never will. Well maybe a few times they have, but let’s be honest, the Pop is not the tinkering type. I predict that the roster stays the same and the team continues to pound the rock, blow after blow.
My problem is this, Duan Blair is not helping as much as we all thought he is; Richard Jefferson doesn’t seem to want to conform to our system and periodically shows up for a monster dunk. The rest of the new guys look uninspired, almost admitting that playing for this club was harder than they expected.
Save faith Spurs fans, we will be there in the end, but what is critical is for the defensive intensity to increase and we need a few benchmark victories. The inspiration our players need to begin believing in the system, to begin believing in the club and start playing for the city of San Antonio.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:16 am
I have been wavering back and forth between the “Give them time” and the “Something’s broken” philosophies. Usually, even when we’re still gelling, it was because of learning rotations defensively. This doesn’t feel like that.
Duncan has absolutely been fantastic. Offensively, and to a lesser extent defensively he’s been spot on. Ginobili has been almost up to snuff. He’s still trying to adjust to the new limits his body has been putting on him, but you can see measurable improvement from game to game, and his playmaking is still there. Blair has been better than expected, showing flashes of brilliance along with the expected rookie inconsistency. Bonner has actually been better than expected as well. He’s shooting well, and his defense seems to have improved significantly.
Unfortunately, everybody else is falling into the underachieving category. Parker seems slow, indecisive and is turning the ball over. Hill has regressed recently, slipping defensively as well as offensively. Mason seems to be picking up his shooting, but I’ll want to see him keep it up before I move him up the board.
The two I’m most worried about though are McDyess and Jefferson. McDyess seems to have aged twenty years over the summer. I don’t know if we’re just expecting too much of him defensively, if he’s out of position because he doesn’t understand the rotations, or what. But at this point, I’d have preferred that we found a way to hold onto Kurt Thomas.
As for Jefferson, oof. I’m not seeing a strong consistent effort on defense. Not good enough. On offense, I think he needs to move to the 2nd unit.
The starts, with Duncan and Parker on the floor, need spot-up shooters to space things out. That’s not RJ. I would put Parker-Mason-Finley/Hairston (Finley when healthy)-Bonner-Duncan out to start the game. That lineup can shoot well enough to give Duncan & Parker the room they need while running their high pick & rolls.
The second unit then becomes Hill-Ginobili-Jefferson-Blair-McDyess/Ratliff. That is a much more movement-oriented offense which plays to everybody’s strengths a bit more. RJ played in Eddie Jordan’s Princeton offense in NJ, so he knows how to move off the ball. Putting him in with Ginobili and Blair (great intuitive spacing guys), and getting the ball moving around should hopefully do wonders for him. It also should help him stop thinking he has to defer to Duncan/Parker on the floor.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:29 am
@ rick. i like your idea of bringing richard jefferson off the bench. i think starting roger mason to start the game would give him confidence and rythm, which is obviously critical in any shooter’s game. my concern with this, however, is who gets the start at sf? finley is another great spot up shooter, but we need some defensive prowess out there on the perimeter. perhaps an undersized bogans could do well in this role. our starting five last year of duncan, mason, parker, and bonner and fin won us 54 games last year. lets keep it up. rj shouldn’t get the starting job because he is who he is. he doesn’t deserve the minutes.
i personally question the idea of acquiring mcdyess in the offseason. we were looking to get younger and more athletic, but we failed to do that where we need it most: standing next to timmy. i think our team has so many chemistry issues at this point that a trade would not be in our favor, unless we ditched hairston, mahinmi, haislip for another athletic post presence (clearly a cap space issue).
i was hoping our rotations were starting to solidify, but richard jefferson’s utter disapoinment should relegate him to the bench. start mason. lets get him rolling.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Blair has been awesome, I’d like to see him get more playing time and get him more seasoned for the post season. The guy makes a big difference in my opinion.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Looking at Hollinger’s magic numbers showed me something I didn’t know: of the top six teams, the Spurs have faced (by far) the strongest opponents, and yet still have a fairly high winning point differential. As I mentioned to my wife last night-we’re losing to good teams (other than, of course, the Suns last night) by relatively narrow margins. We hung tough with the Celtics, the Jazz, and the Nuggets in our respective losses to them before our most recent 3 game win streak. And we’ve blown out weaker opponents regularly. Also, when we’ve been playing the better teams, those teams have treated the contests like playoff games, keeping their starters in throughout. For instance, look at the Suns last night. They played with essentially a seven man rotation, keeping their best players (Amare and Nash) in for almost the entire game. Amare played 41 minutes! By comparison, Pop kept his players regulated. Only three guys (Timmy, Mason, and Manu) broke 30 minutes, and Timmy topped out that group at 35 minutes. Pop played 11 guys last night, and ten of them played at least 10 minutes a piece. Thus, Pop’s playing like it’s the regular season, and the other teams are playing like it’s the playoffs. Also, as the PtR folks noted, the Spurs were on a huge comeback when Pops chose to limit Timmy’s minutes and substitute him for Blair-and that’s when our comeback faltered. If we’d have been willing to go for broke, last night would likely have turned out much differently.
Obviously, we can’t keep losing to good teams and hope to be a contender. We need to be able to play well without Timmy on the floor (given that we have the most productive bench in the league, that’s definitely a possibility). We need to see more consistency from guys like RJ, Tony, and Manu. But I think (perhaps like the fan-boy derided above) that, with a little more patience, we’ll start seeing results soon. This is a good, strong team. I think that will become more and more apparent here in the near future.
Now, with all that said, we better not lose to the Warriors tonight.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:49 am
I think RJ has been kind of lazy in the past couple of seasons. In Milwaukee, he had 20ppg only due to the fact that he had over 30minutes a game. Also michael redd and andrew bogut, 2 of their core 3, was injured. This means rj gets more shots, and that when the big three (bogut and redd) gets back, he is back to his limited shooting with crap field goal efficiency. I still think we should have traded for a C like camby to beef up on defense, as i posted on this blog a week after this trade. Maybe RC and Pop thought RJ loooked somewhat like bruce bowen, but more athletic, so he would be a better defender, but there is no better defender than BB. There is still a chance that we can trade RJ for a big man like jermaine o neal and camby before the deadline, and give Mason more minutes. I thought it was a mistake to take mason out in the fourth because he was hot from three. just my thoughts…
December 16th, 2009 at 9:49 am
@rj I agree about defense in the first unit, that’s why I split Finley and Hairston. Finley would probably get the nod from Pop because of experience, but I think Hairston would be a much better defender, and he is familiar with the system and has improved his shooting to the point that he could help in that regard. I absolutely understand that he’s the 15th guy on the roster at the moment, but he’s 3rd on the depth chart at SF, and if RJ’s going to the bench it’s either him or Finley.
I’m reserving judgement on McDyess somewhat, because his issues seem like they could be more familiarity than fit. Jefferson definitely seems out of place in the starting unit, whereas McDyess seems like he’s almost there.
@wagz I agree on Blair. I love his energy and passion. It’s definitely nice to see someone who’s completely comfortable mixing it up under the basket, diving for balls, and making his presence felt.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:51 am
I expect Bonner to disappear when we need him. But Jefferson was also a no-show, and he makes way too much money for that. Ginobili was off too. Mason showed up. Nice to see ya, Rog. Where ya been all season?
December 16th, 2009 at 9:54 am
@zainn — Totally agree we need a center. McDyess ain’t cutting it. Bonner? I belly laugh heartily at the thought.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:57 am
@Daniel, love the last line
I sometimes feel like Pop doesn’t care at all to lose this games. I think rather have the top teams thinking we are an easy team to beat and them surprise them in the post season. Maybe that is a good strategy… but everyone comes ready when they play the Spurs, they know us.
I think Pop looks at the record and goes, hey we are sucking and we are still right in the mix, I really don’t think hes really trying to get home court advantage against the Lakers.
We shall see what happen tonight, but all the same, it will mean nothing if we win, the Warriors have lost 17 games. We are keeping our season alive by beating bottom feeders.
Oh well, I feel so bad for Timmy. Pop, put Ratliff in, Send Dyess back to Detroit because I don’t see the same guy here. And send Tony to Nash’s Point Guard school
December 16th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Let’s just say that I’m not ready to hit the panic button just yet. The question in my mind is that if it is not an issue of “chemistry”, then what is it? The new additions that were added over the summer are Spurs-type guys (i.e. boring and very coachable), so I don’t think it has anything to do with effort in practice. The basketball IQs of everyone except Blair (inexperience) is high.
The only thing I can really think of is style. We aren’t the defensive juggernaut we used to be because we lost our defensive juggernaut, Bowen, to old age. ESPN has a really cool tool called the shot chart where one of the options is a line graph of the score. Look at our championship teams, and you will see long flat stretches on our opponents graphs when we would shut them down on defense. In most games, you would see at least 2 or 3 times where the other team just couldn’t score for minutes at a time each game. This season, I’m just not seeing that. Outside of grabbing Battier or Artest, we just weren’t going to replace that defense. This is where I loop back to chemistry. Timmy, Manu, and Tony are trying to learn to win in a way that they haven’t before. I’m still willing to give them more time. More time to improve the defense and more time to learn to win without defense being dominant.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:15 am
I’ve been really disappointed with McDyess, but I think Hollinger pointed out last year that he is a notoriously slow starter and then he comes on strong in the 2nd half of the season. Hopefully that happens this year.
I’d like to see Blair get a consistent 20 to 25 minutes a night. He has been great most of the time and I love watching him play. I’d also like to see him play alongside Tim more often. Even with increased minutes, foul trouble should never be a problem for him because his minutes are limited, so he is unlikely to foul out and even if he does it’s ok. The only issue should be if he is racking up fouls and putting the other team in the penalty early in a quarter.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:22 am
I feel the Spurs play much better WITH the lead (maybe this is most teams. But once the Spurs fall behind, like last night, I feel they can’t come back as easily as others as Pop will limit minutes, especially on the first game of a back to back).
To me the starting lineup needs to have more firepower to end the first quarter with the lead. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more Bogans talk. He only played 11 mins last night, 0 pts, 1 reb. I don’t know what Mason did to get pushed to the bench, but I feel replacing Bogans with Mason will help. Sure Mason’s defense isn’t as good, but you have to guard him on the other end. Then bring Manu off the bench, obviously. Bogans could be a situational defender, and 11 minutes sounds about right - just not to start the game.
I’d leave Jefferson even if he has disappointed. There really isn’t another SF we can replace until Finley is back, and I can’t stand Finley’s defense.
As for McDyess, I’m on the fence. Its a tossup with Bonner as whom to start. Heck even Blair could start, who has the same production as McDyess in 6 mins less a game. I’m more hesitant starting Blair as he can’t stretch the floor, and feel his game is better suited off the bench together with Manu.
Tightening our rotation and starting with more firepower should help, but Pop seems to try to keep the minutes down which I can’t disagree with.
Here goes my starters: Duncan, McDyess, Jefferson, Mason, Parker.
Core bench: Manu, Blair, Bonner.
The rest can split garbage time or if a specific need arises (i.e. Ratliff to defend against big lineups like Lakers, Bogans to defend wing, Finley for last minute 3).
December 16th, 2009 at 10:33 am
The choices of the Spurs for personnel is proving to be a big mistake.
1) Richard Jefferson is a fill the lane, fast break type player. He can’t change direction as seen by all the charges. He’s not a spot up shooter and his post up game has been worse than advertised. Spurs don’t play that style.
Vince Carter, Steven Jackson, or Caron Butler would have fit the Spurs style of play better. Even Corey Maggete with his selfish play, but ability to consistently score and get to the FT line would have been better for the Spurs.
Richard Jefferson is a bust.
2) Keith Bogans vs. Bruce Bowen
I have no idea why Pop gave up on Bowen. Bowen last yr alone proved his worth by guarding Nash, Paul, Williams, Barea when needed and doing a good job. Bowen knows the system and had accepted his role. Bowen hadn’t declined like Horry.
3) McDyess, Ratliff, Blair
I’m still evaluting McDyess. Last night, 3 nobody guarding me 15 ft jumpers missed in the 1st qtr. He does a good job rebounding and attacking offensive glass, but his defense has been lacking. Hill driving at him last night, Okur killing him with up and unders, but he did play Nowitski well.
Ratliff, why he doesn’t play 12 minutes a game against good teams is beyond me. Hustles, rebounds, and blocks shots. Just what Spurs need.
Blair is Bonner, but an inside version. Can score and rebound, but not play defense. Why Pop insists on playing both at the same time is puzzling.
I’d trade Jefferson if possible, he just doesn’t fit. But, his salary would make it hard. We missed on Vince Carter or Stephen Jackson. Maybe Maggette? Tayshun Prince? Luol Deng? Michael Redd?
Memphis after the Pau Gasol trade, maybe they’ll trade Rudy Gay, Mike Conley, O.J. Mayo and Marc Gasol for him. It works in the NBA trade machine on ESPN.com.
In a league of 420 so players, Richard Jefferson is the 28th highest paid.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:38 am
It’s time for some changes.
#1 Blair should be starting and getting more than 15 or 20 minutes a game. Sure, his defense is suspect but he’s an efficient scorer and an elite rebounder and FAR better than McDyess.
#2 RJ needs to be told that he needs to drive to the hoop. We need him to be super-aggressive and get to the FT line - no more taking contested jumpers all the time.
Do these 2 things and things should be okay.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Regarding Hollinger’s comments on the Spurs newfound troubles with the Suns, I’m not sure we have the personnel to consistently shut teams out like that again.
Our decade of defense started, and was most dominant with, our twin towers. Funneling drivers baseline into a shotblocker while another shotblocker cleaned up the rest.
Now this isn’t a call for huge minutes for Ratliff just yet. In case you haven’t noticed, we’ve been playing without that second shotblocker for quite some time with great results.
I think the key component to our missing defense is the lack of a versatile defender who can cover multiple positions. He’s not walking through that door, but Bruce Bowen was key in containing point guards Nash and Williams.
His length allowed him to back off. And his ability to navigate through screens and recover was uncanny. And he was always in the mind of offensive players.
Bogans can cover shooting guards within his specific physical attributes. And Richard Jefferson is fine with big small forwards like Pierce. But we lack the person who can guard both while switching over to Nash and Paul and Billups.
Parker is an OKAY defender. Hill has potential to be a versatile defender, but even his size limits how many positions he can guard.
Right now, BOTH point guards are absolutely getting wiped out with screens. With Bowen, our bigs could shade more towards the screener and not have to show so hard. Now they have to commit even more, leaving us in trouble with any big (Boozer especially) with a jump shot.
I have more thoughts and theories on solutions I’ll bring up later, but sadly I have to run. Be back later.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Pops should give the team incentive to try to push themselves: Sporting a new line-up would be would do the trick, consisting of Parker, Mason, Ginobili, Duncan and McDyess.
I’d have to say that right now, RJ is not giving us his money’s worth, so he needs to sit on the pine to motivate himself and light a fire in his sedentary buttocks so he could actually finish his layups and dunks. Ginobili and Mason together would give us a potent 3-point shooting mix that could spread open the floor and ACTUALLY get McDyess involved. I mean, what in the world happened to McDyess? He used to hit his jumpers with regularity and now he might as well be a mannequin-on-a-segway out there cuz he’s not getting any touches whatsoever.
Bogans has been a defensive bust, and I’d rather play Finley or Hairston at this point since they can actually hit a few jumpers and make a dent in the box score.
This team needs to get its act together, and I think Pops needs to become a dictator again and put people in doghouses so they could learn to play with some tenacity.
Otherwise, we will be fighting for the Best Team Not in the Playoffs label. And that won’t cut it with a luxury-tax paying team like ours.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Rick i agree totally pop needs to quit worrying about hurting rj’s feelings and bring him off the bench b/c teams are sagging off of him and giving him too much time to think once he has the ball. I would start mason and bogans at the 2 and 3 and start bonner with timmy up front. I would think pop would have thought about this already but i guess it will take a couple of more losses for him to figure it out b/c wins over the kings and bobcats don’t make me scream its a turn around beat one of the elite 6 before we say that.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:14 am
I actually though there was a lot of positives last night. We started off with terrible defense (you’d think spurs players would realize that the most important guy to defend is the one with the ball … so don’t rotate off him.) but got better, and we missed a lot of easy looks and Phoenix didn’t. My biggest problem last night was with RJ and TP. RJ has been a mixed bag (more bad than good) so far so that’s normal but what is up with Tony? He seems to lack all intensity and it looked like he wasn’t even trying on D. We don’t need an elite point guard against the suns. Give the ball to TD or Grizzly Blair and they can score at will against that front court. We just need a competent ball handler and some serious effort on D. Which is why George Hill had such a high +- last night.
Our best lineups last night included Hill, Manu, and TD. The guys played about 13 minutes together and outscored Phoneix by 21 during that time. I was calling for these guys last night and was not at all surprised when we put them in and went on a third quarter run. I knew we were sunk when Hill picked up his 5th. Hill is not better than TP, not by a mile. However, as long as he keeps giving his all and playing like he is, he needs to be stealing some of TPs minutes. I’m glad Pop recognized this last night.
Right now I can see the potential greatness in the Spurs and still have faith, but I am getting really frustated with some of our players.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:19 am
The San Jose Mercury had an article today saying that the Warriors are open to the possibility of trading Anthony Randolph.
What if the Spurs went after this guy? He would give us that quick PF that we need to guard the stretch 4s. He’ll give us size, athleticism and depth on our frontline (6′11). He also is versatile enough to play the defend the SF position as well.
He’s not a spot up shooter ala Bowen though. Oh, it would have been so key to have gotten Ariza….
I can see the Cavs going after Randolph to solve their Rashard Lewis woes…
December 16th, 2009 at 11:25 am
@BC: It’s too early to make a trade, but Randolph is a major talent. I’m not sure if he would come cheaply enough, though. Randolph would demand talent in return.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I am getting really frustated with our players effort. first quarter of the season over still they are not Adjusting no excuses for the adjust. I am totally dissapointed the new players play rj and Mcdice. we have lot to learn from other teams regarding compete. if we play like this we will be in playoffs and eliminated in first round for sure. right now they are not look like the spurs. pop has to think about his rotation and do some changes give some quality minutes to mason and blair. GO SPURS GO!!!!!!
December 16th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
I agree with bduran about Tony Parker. His inability to finish drives along with the defensive issues sure look like a lack of conditioning to me. Do you reckon that he was expecting to practice/play himself into shape, only to be delayed by the ankle injury?
As for RJ, he’s an athletic, high-character guy, but I’m really starting to question his basketball IQ. He’d probably benefit greatly by coming off the bench in tandem with Manu. Manu’s ability to improvise would be the closest impersonation of what RJ once had with Jason Kidd.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
it’s interesting how no analysts
December 16th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
it’s interesting how no analysts or articles outside of san antonio spurs fans/writers are giving the spurs lackluster start any mention. if the lakers lost 3 in a row or the cavs, there would be 10 articles a day on what to do, should there be a trade, is the season over. it speaks a lot about the respect the spurs get and it goes both ways - whether winning or losing. you don’t see that with successful franchises.
i don’t know if this is an aberration or the spurs are just the lone special case.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
I see most of the comments above concerns the offense of this team, but my understanding (on a small sample, matches are tough to see this side of the ocean) is that the Spurs are having more troubles at the other side of the court.
Personally, I think both personnel and attitude have to do with it.
From a personnel point of view, it’s obvious that we lost our better defender (Bowen) and that savvy big man (Horry) and we did not substitute them adequately. With regard to the big man, I do not only miss the shot blocking ability, but also that ability to make strong shows defending the p’n'r’ and switching on the ball handler without being killed.
In my opinion, McDyess lacks such ability to defend the p’n'r’ and switch, while he is comparable defender in the post.
RJ just is not a defender of Bowen’s level and it shows. Moreover, he’s a player that needs the ball in his hands to affect the game, a necessity that doesn’t sit well with the rest of our current personnel. Is he capable of changing this attitude and become a top wing defender, even in games in which he takes few shots? This far, the answer is no.
Leaving apart the personnel issue, I think the attitude is a problem, too.
I have impressed in my mind the images of Spurs teams in the past waiting for the attackers low on the legs with the arms wide open and an aggressive stance.
Now, I cannot erase from my mind the Deron Williams dunk of last week. Apart from the highway to the rim that was kindly opened to him, you can see that the stance of all and each player on the floor was really passive, like there was no tension whatsoever in that situation.
What I mean is that not only we are missing defensive assignments and rotations, we are also passive and distract in the way we defend.
If the sight of Deron Williams with the ball in his hand at the three point line in a close game does not make every alarm in your head explode, I do not know what can do that.
I think it is obvious right now that the problem is not only related to the learning curves and to the chemistry and to knowing each other. I also think that in our current roster there is not a single player that can bully the other teams’ best scorer, which is something I would appreciate.
I think it is not time yet to push the panic button, but such time could come in less than a month and the Spurs just can’t arrive there without an alternative plan.
My B plan is something that goes along the lines of a trade with Charlotte (say, RJ, Mahimi and Haislip for Gerald Wallace, Nazr and a second rounder) saving them roughly 23 millions (when you count players option, which Wallace would exercise for sure in Charlotte after some rough seasons, maybe not if he was in demand after a championship in SA). The trade is lopsided (Wallace is younger, better defender, worse shooter, but better slasher and rebounds like a crazy man), but they are trying to shed salary to sell the franchise and maybe they would bite.
Best,
Nicola
December 16th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
in the first line, it was *concern*.
December 16th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
I know the 12-10 record looks ugly, but you must admit many of those losses came from a very tight contest. I actually don’t remember seeing a blow-out loss recently (despite so many losses), and the Spurs in these losses mostly stayed or at some point was in the striking distance to turn the game around. Yesterday’s loss was tough, but Phoenix is, so far, the best team at home in the league, and how often do you see Goran Dragic score 18 points with 4/5 of 3-point shooting?
The poor team defense was to be expected, was it not? Spurs lost Bowen and Thomas, 3/5 of their starting line-up are newly acquired players, Hill - despite his defensive abilities - is still a sophomore, Duncan’s knee isn’t going to get any better and he’s one year older, Manu’s defense isn’t like it used to be (injury?), and we all know Bonner, Finley and Blair are poor defenders who get regular minutes. With the squad like this, I’m not surprised their defense is relatively bad at this point of the season (last season wasn’t too different as far as I can remember). I thought every Spurs fans understand having the healthy core is more important than having a higher seed in the post-season. What’s with all the panicking?
December 16th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I’m ready for a moment of crisis and am curious to see how the team responds. I would like to see the press amp up the criticism of the Spurs to get them on edge a bit so we can maybe jar loose some of the dirt to see whats really going on here.
December 16th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Can we send Hill to Bruce Bowen camp?
In my opinion, we will not beat any good team unless we get good a good (not great) performance from Ginobli and Jefferson. They need to have 13-15 points every single game. When Jefferson doesn’t get going early, he needs to sit. When Ginobli airballs his first three, he needs to drive to the basket. Where is the slashing Manu of old?
Duncan is STELLAR. (enough said)
McDyess has been a big dissapointment. Why can he and Duncan not Box Out in the paint?
I like the of Blair starting, but in Jefferson’s place, not McDyess’s. I would like to see more of Ratliff and Haislip. Is there a certain number we are allowed to suit up? Why would we have anyone inactive? At this point, none of our bigs could do as bad as McDyess.
If we bring Jefferson off the bench with Ginobli and Hill, it would completely change our pace (more difficult for teams to guard.)
I am really dissapointed with parkers finishing ability thus far. Kudos on the free-throws.
December 16th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Everyone was riding high on the Spurs after their 3 game win streak, getting excited about how we are gelling as a team. Then we hit lose one game, and we get a “The Spurs Might Be Broke” article.
Ummm, has it crossed anyone’s mind that just maybe the Spurs lost because the Suns shot out of their minds? The Suns shot 51% FG’s with 61% 3’s. Our season average for FG and 3 percentage against us is 46% and 35%, respectively. You can’t stop a team who is just on fire. The crazy thing is, even though they shot the lights out, we were in the game! If Pop really wanted to win, Duncan would have started the 4th quarter and Tony and Manu would have had more than 27 and 31 minutes, respectively.
If Manu hits one more 3, Jefferson hit 2 shots and gets to the line a couple times, Tony makes an extra shot, Bonner makes 1 more, and McDyess makes one jumper, we win. Blair got too excited on 2 offensive rebounds and went up too fast, missing 2 point blank put-backs. That’s 19 points, theoretically. All these guys just had poor shooting nights and none of the Suns did. Add 1 more made shot to each of these guy’s box scores and add another 5 mins for Duncan, we win walking away, even with the Suns shooting 51%!
If we win another 3 in a row, are we still broke?
On a side note, Duncan is just killing. If he was getting 38 mins a game instead of 32, he’d be in the MVP discussion again. The guy is just absolutely incredible. His points per 48 mins are just a fraction of a point off of his highest PPG year ever. He is even setting career best FG and FT percentages. This guy is a machine. I think we can all agree that we are witnessing one of the best players to ever play the game.
December 16th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
(Warning: lots of rambling below)
Lots of questions. My biggest two are: what is our window, and can this team as constructed turn it around?
Is our window tied to Ginobili? If so, then I can’t expect him to be any better next year. Most likely much worse. Not trying to sound an alarm, but I think either we do something major or do nothing at all right now to save this season, and possibly, our window of opportunity. Let’s first look at this with a glass half empty mindset and what we can do to make a big move.
No one is going to take Manu or RJ off our hands right now. And while some teams might have interest in Manu, I can’t see us getting anything legitimate back.
If there is desperation to win this year, I would trade Parker. And possibly look to take a few young guns from Portland in this trade - they do need a point guard and have plenty of pieces we could use. Is trading Parking a desperate move? Yes, and I’m not married to the idea but I think a big picture look is needed right now.
Parker is the one guy who could bring back legit talent. Also, I honestly can’t see Holt giving big bucks to Parker with a new contract in a few years with Tim done, and especially after how Parker screwed up the potential of this team by playing injured over the Summer. My point: I don’t see Parker on the Spurs past his current contract. (And for the record, I don’t see Holt paying Manu any real money either, though Manu might take a paycut to stay. From Parker’s comments, I see no evidence he will stay for less money.)
Other thoughts - yes RJ has sucked but I think not enough blame is going towards Dice. He looks just as lost to me. I think RJ wants to do well; he just doesn’t know how yet. I don’t sense much from Dice. He looks to be happy he got his last contract. He doesn’t seem ready to work hard at this point of the season. He seems to have come into the season thinking he could coast and save himself for the playoffs. That might have been smart had we been doing well, but he just looks old and lost.
He’s not helping, and neither is Bogans who can’t hit the side of a barn. If his jumper isn’t falling it’s like we’re playing 4 on 5 again with Bowen, except Bowen was a better defender. Not a lot better at this point, but better.
Which brings up another point - age. Somehow by getting “younger” this offseason we actually got older, or at least appear that way. Dice is old; Manu looks old; even Parker looks older than can be imagined by his current play.
The only time we seem to play well is with our second unit when Hill and Blair are helping to lead a charge - not surprisingly these are our two hardest playing players right now (though in fairness to Manu, he is still giving effort, just not getting the same results.)
The other way to look at this is to trade no one and find a way to work this out. Maybe bench Parker until he’s healthy and in the meantime focus on getting RJ into the offense. RJ and Blair (and Hill to some degree) our only hopes for making a difference at this point. These guys have to start playing really well. It’s entirely possibly they can.
I don’t see the FO making a HUGE trade, but I do seem they trying to trade Mason, but I don’t expect any saviours to come back our way. So, this team is just going to have figure it out themselves.
Pop has to give some youth a chance. Hairston could possibly give us everything Bogans does, yet be a much better passer and scorer. I’m not saying this is a huge upgrade, but if we’re not shaking things up then Pop needs to change his way of thinking because so far nothing is working.
Sorry for the ramble.
December 16th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I think the SPURS are so confident on offense that they don’t bring the same intensity on defense.
When was the last time you saw the SPURS give up that many open 3s? And to the SUNS? WE OWN THE SUNS!!
I think RJ is doing enough (even though he stunk it up last night) If they beat the Celtics, Nuggs and Jazz, which they should have, We’d be 15-7 and everyone would be happy and no one would be on RJ’s case.
The guy I’m worried about is PARKER. Last season he was unstoppable. Where is his intensity?? He could have gotten lay-up after lay-up last night. I only recall 3 drives to the basket. What happened to his shot?? I think he needs to stop trying to get everyone involved. He’s not that kind of PG. He needs to as PARKER says be in “attack mode” everyone esle will follow. WHen TP is on, the SPURS are tough to beat.
Since everyone esle is playing coach, here is my starting line up.
DUNCAN
BLAIR-He and TD can play a three man game with MANU
PARKER
MANU- I know POP loves his boost off the bench but the Spurs need to get off to a good start. SO many times this season they have had bad starts and it doesn’t get better until MANU comes in.
RJ-Plays much freer with MANU.
December 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
If we would have scored more points than our opponents in every game we would be 22-0!
December 16th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Hollinger is an idiot. Fail. I don’t want to hear from anyone who cant dribble a basketball.
December 16th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
I think what was most telling last night was the 5 players on the floor when the Spurs rallied from 20 down with 8:30 to go in the third. Timeout Spurs - Popovich inserts Bonner-Ginobili-Mason-Hill to play alongside Duncan. All players from last years team. All five feel comfortable in the system. The 20 point lead was cut to 5 by the end of the third quarter. Pop pulled Parker-Bogans-Jefferson-McDyess all at once. . . All of these new players are still not confident in the system. They are all second guessing themselves- which causes mistakes. Parker - is slow and turning the ball over way to much for your starting veteran point guard. I really don’t get what is going on there. I think he’s just kind of worn down. Its funny though - I think Parker secretly wishes he was a shooting guard and Tim secretly wishes he was a point guard…hopefully they figure it out soon and gain some confidence, or we may be in for a very frustrating May optimistically.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
It is time to face facts. We must hire Brue Bowen as a defensive development coach. I am confident he can teach the new guys how to play man on man D!
December 16th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
The team hasn’t found their identity on D. A lot of those players left the team.
More pressure is on the D, especially since the offense is turning the ball over even more.
And then the Spurs haven’t developed their big 4. It’s Duncan and another one of the other 4 that decides to play well (or none play well and It’s just TD).
They are getting the bench production on offense, but until at least 1 to 2 more stars show up each game, then the bench production just makes up for one slacking starter.
December 16th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
That was an awesome post! My favorite line was the “knee-jerk fan boys” line, lol. Great reading, and true too.
The truth of the matter is that “chemistry” issues are FAR OVERBLOWN. Time to gel, get our ducks in a row, et al, are all EXCUSES for not playing well. Think back to the 2008 season after the Lakers got Pau Gasol. Was there any time needed to “gel” together? Was the lack of chemistry a huge issue? Of course not. Right when Gasol was on the team, you just KNEW that this was the beginning of a juggernaught. At the least, you could feel that this was a contending team.
You just “know” things some time with 1 look. Sure, you can decide to stick your head in the sand and avoid REALITY but that only makes things worse. Just looking at this Spurs team, you KNOW, without any doubt, that this is NOT a championship team. It simply isn’t. There are no two ways around it. I don’t care what Hollingers power rankings say, the Spurs have no shot at all of winning this year unless some HUGE changes are made. You don’t need to be an NBA analyst to decipher that much.
Who in the West are championship teams? It is obvious to me that only 2 teams can currently be considered championship quality, and that’s the Lakers and the Nuggets.
What is wrong with the Spurs? They made a huge mistake on somebody that is frankly NO GOOD for them, ie. Jefferson. How long have i been writing about how bad Jefferson is for the Spurs? Ever since the move happened in the offseason.
Why? Because he is an AVERAGE player who is a BAD fit for the Spurs. He is a VOLUME shooter, and an inefficient one at that. His defense is sub-par, and he has no intangibles. He has the worst characteristics for a role player on the Spurs team. And second, Mcdyess. He is old, too old. I thought that Mcdyess would have been a good fit, i was wrong. Father time has caught up with Mcdyess.
What do the spurs need? They need a couple of things. They need a Ron Artest type of wing defender and they need a YOUNG athletic big man. You can’t expect a Andrew Bynum, but something a little less.
What is my secret plan for the Spurs? Anthony Randolph is currently being shopped around by Golden State. The Warriors are an absolutely idiotic organization, and they will make a horrible mistake by trading this highly talented, athletic big man. The Spurs MUST make a play for him. I think that if they get Randolph, the Spurs will be just 1 player away from a championship. That’s a shut down defender like the old Bowen or the current Artest. Maybe George Hill can GROW into the role?
Most important move for the spurs, GET RANDOLPH! Of course i don’t want to see this happen since i’m not a Spurs fan. But you Spurs fans should want this to happen!
December 16th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
The Spurs may have had similar slow starts on the way to a great season, but this is a year where the West appears to have approx. 10 playoff teams, all capable of postseason magic. As there are 60 games left in the year, it may not be time for concern at the present time, but I think getting focused at the Rodeo Road Trip may be too late to ensure playoff success. This team needs to be rolling around All-Star Break, and then on fire come February to be successful.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
lvmainman,
Trading Jefferson will be IMPOSSIBLE. Last offseason when you guys picked him up for “free” and were all excited, the point was that he wasn’t FREE, he was $14million per year! That’s not “free,” lol. And that is the problem. No one will take him off your hands, because at his skill level, they would rather have NOTHING and have the cap room than to have Jefferson and to not have the cap room.
That’s why the Bucks gave him to you guys for “free.” Because he is not worth his paycheck.
Thus the only trade possible is for another OVERPAID and crappy player. Crap for crap so to speak.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Think the Rockest would trade Battier for RJ?
December 16th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
What on earth is Popovich doing? Bonner vs. Maggette?? Are you serious? No way Tony Parker should play the 2nd half after that grand show of ineptitude. Let’s see, 3 four on two fast breaks blown by not passing, a layup dropped pass out of bounds from Duncan, a pass off Mcdyess shins, a pass to the Spurs bench instead of Mason, pump fake his man and instead of drawing contact and a foul - throw the ball off Blair out of bounds, 2 drives to the basket where the ball is knocked out of his hands and off his leg out of bounds. 6 turnovers, Yeesh…
Pop please don’t play him in the 2nd half, give Hairston his minutes.
December 16th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
I agree lvmainman… this is a messy games. I see no signs of the Spurs playing better, we went through a stretch of 5 minutes with only 2 points. This is enbarrasing and I have to say that this is the worst Spurs team I have seen so far and quite honestly… they are getting very BORING to watch.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Final score 103-91. We held them to 42% FG’s, 10% 3’s, and 16 points under their season average. The much maligned Jefferson had 17 and 5 with a couple dunks. Bogans had 13 points in only 24 mins.
Duncan raped Randolf.
@ lvmainman: Parker only had 5 TO’s according to the ESPN box score.
We’ve won 4 out of 5, with our only loss coming to a really good team who shot lights out and dished out playoff minutes to their starters.
We’re broke?
December 16th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Tim Duncan is an absolute beast, and a statistical freak! He’s playing fewer minutes, sure, but his per minute stats are actually better than when he came into the league. People that say he’s falling off need to get the doodoo out their brains. Duncan is the player of the decade, not Kobe!
December 17th, 2009 at 1:36 am
[...] In today’s Daily Dime, John Hollinger picks up on a few themes that are popular to 48MoH this season. We’ve recently written that this year’s Spurs team is Tim Duncan and too little of everyone else. Hollinger agrees: … …Read Original Story: The Spurs Might Be Broke - 48 Minutes of Hell (blog) [...]
December 17th, 2009 at 6:14 am
Spurs Coach for a day…
This is the way I would play this team based on limited viewing of the new guys and extensive viewing of the old guys:
Start:
C: TD - he is OUR premier post player and needs to be close to the basket. There are too many quicker SF/PF’s going around that are taking him away from his best attributes.
PF: Committee - Bonner/ Mc dyess. McD against banging teams like detroit, boston, cleveland and elite teams like lakers….bonner gets the nod against small ball teams so they can’t colapse.
SF: Jefferson. He isn’t liking these early season stumbles and the criticism landing in his lap, and I think this is going to make him take ownership of his role and his importance over the course of the season. His free throws are going to be like little gold nuggets come playoff time….
SG: Manu. Time to change the dynamic of this team and throw the kitchen sink at the opposition from the get-go. We need to be a domineering team and force teams to adjust. Manu will ensure the intensity from the tip.
PG: TP…..he will get a second and third wind this season and the spurs will become another animal.
Bench:
Blair @ 7 minute mark….teams plateau after the initial first minutes of the first quarter and lose structure, and this is when offensive rebounders do the most damage, and provide lift for the team.
Hill @6 minute mark: Tony needs to finish quarters, because he is so good in transition, and teams can more easily be punished then, also, if George finds his range, we can have 2 super quick guards dictating the tempo in our favour, whilst resting manu, and keeping Jeff running.
Bonner/Mc dyess/ Ratliff @ 5-7minute - typical rotation to either control fouls, spread floor or adjust to matchups….
Mason@8 minutes….I think this is his time every quarter except the 4th, when I think he maybe should be starting…..its a time when we often become foggy in offense, and need a big three, or at least the threat of one….other teams really respect his shot.
Finley @ 2nd, 3rd and 4th spells situationally where his shot is clicking and other guys are faltering…..a great insurance policy guy.
Notes: Leave Jefferson on bench to start the third quarter….he may struggle with this at the start, but he can play the last 16 to 18 minutes of the game and be of an attacking frame of mind.
Play Blair when the spurs are going to duncan….Malik had alot of success scrapping when timmy got doubled and tripled, and throw mason, parker and manu at teams late in third and early in fourth.
Bonner is a first half mule, and a second half spot up shooter.
Mcdyess is a crunch time defender.
TP should be rested in the middle of the third for a good stretch, and this is when GH should run our most structured offenses for tim and RJ towards the latter half of the quarter. TP can then attack the rim with RJ for the last 16 minutes of the game and try to get the opposition in foul trouble.
This part of the game is also when big long teams try to assert their size mismatches and “trend” the rest of the game towards that. Our biggest, toughest lineup in that period might at least slow the progress.
Manu with the ball in the last 3 minutes of the game with TP running baseline screens for 18 foot jumpers or back door layins, Jeff flaring on the perimiter for rolling feeds to drive to the rim, with quick give and go’s with TD. Mcdyess becomes the pick guy and rebound hound. Hill, Bonner, Mason get used situationally depending on lead/ defecit/ lineups etc.
We are going to have to be domineering, because we will only scrape low 50 wins and will need to be super aggressive to win road games in the playoffs….but i think we will
December 17th, 2009 at 7:28 am
k, Leland, lets not get that far ahead… Kobe is by far the best player of the decade… In my opinion hes way better than Lebron and think about it, without Kobe, the Lakers would not have won 1 championship. Not that the Spurs would have won without Duncan, but Kobe is ridiculously good. Hes already made a few clutch shots this year and the boy pretty much scores whenever the heck he wants as well as playing excellent defense.
December 17th, 2009 at 7:31 am
I just wanted to add that yes I do agree that Timmy is second to Kobe and Timmy is playing amazing this year, he looks fresh and young,, those were some sweet blocks last night.
Did you guys also hear the announcer say that Timmy said he may play until he is 40, man would that be a treat…
December 17th, 2009 at 10:03 am
ugh, for the first time I have to admit the Spurs are a boring. Not due to their style of play, but because we’re exactly the 10th best team in the league (or so). We ALWAYS win when we’re clearly supposed to (clippers, warriors, etc.). We NEVER do against the better teams.
December 17th, 2009 at 10:18 am
@JT
How is Kobe’s achievements in the past decade better than Duncan’s, and what his shooting this year so far has to do with the past decade? As per statistics, Dunkan is better player even now, Kobe’s team is just playing better so far. Duncan carried Spurs to 4 championships (to 3 in past decade), Kobe to one only (funny how everybody forgets what a monster Shaq was, and how Kobe missed playoffs once and got eliminated from the first round twice, before Lakers got Gasol).
Also, if I’m remembering correctly, Duncan is statistically better clutch player than Kobe. For some reason, everybody remembers the shots Kobe made, but nobody remembers that he missed a lot more in the clutch.
Kobe is the great player. However, I’d say that his play and achievements make him third best player (behind Duncan and Shaq) for the past decade.
On different note, this is a great post, Tim - I’m glad you and Graydon are writing for Spurs. Still think that major problem is Parker’s play so far - if he reverts to last season’s form, we will be championship contenders. Not sure if and when it happens though…
December 17th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Sorry, misspelled Duncan once…
December 17th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Thatbigguy,
I attribute 6 turnovers to Parker because according to statisticians if someone (Duncan) throws a perfect pass that hits someone (Parker) in the hands and goes out of bounds, the turnover gets credited to the person who passed it(Duncan). Why? Because the pass was never caught by the receiver(Parker), therefore having never possessed the ball(even though he was ready, looked it into his hands and still dropped it out of bounds), the receiver(Parker) is prohibited by rule of statisticians from being assessed a turnover.
But, in my mind that turnover should be a judgement call and charged to Parker. That is why I say he had 6 Turnovers.
December 17th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Re: Duncan vs. Kobe
This end of the decade stuff makes for fun conversation and maybe could get its own post as we get near New Year’s Eve.
For my brief take: Kobe Bryant is the most skilled player of the decade. Shaq the most dominant. Tim Duncan is the best balance of both worlds.
If you want to be as respectful and diplomatic as possible you could say that Duncan and Bryant are practically equals. But like they say, with all things equal, go with size. Dominant big men will always have bigger impacts on the entire game.
I’d also like to point out that Duncan has gotten “it” longer. The secret to basketball if you’ve read Bill Simmons book. He’s been the leader his entire career that Bryant has only now grasped.
Duncan is easily the player of the decade and the best post-Jordan player the league has seen (though Lebron’s prime will probably change that).
December 17th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
This has been a good thread so far with some very interesting insights. I understand everyones frustration with Jefferson, I myself have wondered about him on several occasions. However, I believe the hate getting thrown his way is misplaced. He’s been with the team for 23 games and yet he is still shooting a respectable 46% from the field in spite of those who say he’s only a “volume shooter”. When Jefferson scores 15+ ppg, the Spurs are 8-2. There have been 12 games this season where Jefferson has taken less than 10 shots. The Spurs are 6-6 in those games. Bottom line: When Jefferson is involved, the Spurs are tough. When Jefferson’s shots are given to guys like Mason, Hill, etc. the Spurs aren’t that good.
So far this season Tim has played out of his mind. The play of Duncan has been an early Christmas present for me. What ever he’s drinking/smoking he needs to share because he looks like he turned back the clock.
Tony is perplexing to me. He seems to be missing that midrange jumper he was nailing last year and I’ve also seen him miss layups that he usually makes. Everyone’s general consensus is that he’s playing very poorly, yet in spite of this, his fg% is virtually the same as it was last year. He’s turning the ball over a ton, but we all know why that’s happening. Bottom line: I expect Tony to be ok once he adjusts to new teammates and gets his groove back.
Manu: I love him, but in my opinion, this is where our problems get deep. Manu has been with the Spurs 7 yrs and understands the system averages 13.3 ppg while shooting just under 40% from the field. Jefferson has been around for 23 games and is still adjusting averages 13.4 ppg on 46% shooting. In addition, Manu has already missed 6 games this year (Spurs went 5-1 during that stretch). I have seen only 1 game so far this year that would indicate he could return to form and two other games where he was pretty decent. His game log this year tells the entire story: When he shoots the 3-ball well, he scores, when he doesn’t shoot it well, he disappears. He has missed 6 games, but is second on the team in three point fg attempts. His game is now predicated off the three point shot. He rarely drives or gets to the free throw line. Bottom line: Manu is an expiring contract that has value in this economy. Package him with someone else (Mason or McDyess) and get a PF or C who can help Duncan.
I really want to see Manu get his groove back, but see no evidence of this happening based on the 23 games we’ve played so far. The rest of the team just needs a little more time.
December 17th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
I honestly feel like there’s 2 major issues:
1. Chemistry.
I know, duh. We got new guys running a new system and vets trying to get everything sync’d up, nothing new here.
2. Pop giving the playcalling over to TP.
While a bold and gutsy move, I feel like we need to get out of this run-run-run philosophy, and get back to our “slow it down” halfcourt game. We’ve always been able to run with teams when we needed, but I think that was always born out of the cohesion that was bred from running a solid offense. Right now it seems that when we get into this uptempo rhythm is when we make all the boneheaded mistakes, but our 3rd quarter heroics in Phoenix came from our grind-it-out style, which allows us a far better defensive transition.
So, I think #1 will be solved by fixing #2.
December 17th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Hobson…about Manu, I see where you coming from ( not really )
If Manu is playing like this in February, THEN I will be worried. Manu is out of shape and hasnt been playing alot of basketball. Factor in his shaken confidence, and the results are a tentative Manu who is attempting to score from the perimeter rather than paint.
Lets hope Manus tentative play is an attempt to conserve his body for later in the season. I dont think this is far fetched.
Besides, I doubt the Spurs FO would even think of Trading an icon like Manu.
December 17th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Im glad to see the kaveh curse is working again.
wish he would show up before every game and talk about how bad rj is. RJ is playing better than manu and I don’t see anyone yelling to trade him. I think we should shut up and let them play Pop is a pretty smart guy. They had a chance to get Vince carter last year before the trade deadline but didn’t pull the trigger, because RJ was who they wanted.
December 17th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Some of you guys really crack me up! Let’s see…BRING BACK Bruce…TRADE Tony…TRADE MANU…can’t trade RJ, so BENCH HIM.
Can’t wait for the “FIRE Pop” chorus to start.
All of you fair-weather “fans” should be sentenced to watch film of the “Cotton-Ball” era and the “McHone” days.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m as confounded as you guys on the team’s start. I’m still pretty confident that we’ll go pretty deep in the playoffs. No finals predictions, though. It’s obvious to see that Pop doesn’t care what seed he ends up with. I tend to agree. Who cares (besides Holt) if we draw the Lakers or Nuggets in the 1st round? We’re going to have to face them anyway.
I did see one good suggestion: Bring Bruce back…as an asst. defensive coach.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Quote from San X-Press Article “Still, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich remains bullish on the team’s offseason investments. He continues to urge patience with his newcomers as they adjust to their new team, and their new team adjusts to them.
“What I’m learning is we lost more corporate knowledge than I thought,” said Popovich, whose team is 13-10 after a 2-1 Western road trip. “It’s taken a little bit more time than I thought to get everybody on the same page.”
Calming words from the captain steering the ship.
In Pop we trust.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
For tweaking around the edges, I’d love to see us make a move for a second shot-blocker that can play big minutes, specifically Ronny Turiaf.
He’s available given GS’s willingness to blow everything up, has had an unreal blocks/48 rate since his heart issues, is still pretty young, and has a lot of experience practicing against the Lakers’ bigs from his time there a couple of years ago. Even if getting Turiaf cost us Blair, whom I love, I think it would give us a better balance of skills in our rotation of bigs right now (Bonner stretches opponents’ D and McDyess rebounds, but neither is a shot-blocker) and bring us closer to our goal of a championship this year.
December 18th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Im gonna strike your suggestion to trade DeJuan for Ronny Turiaf from my memory banks. This thread has been here a long time , so maybe nobody else will see your comment.
( Dont worry, I wont tell anyone )
December 18th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Unless Blair has telekinetic powers that I’m not aware of, sitting him on the bench doesn’t seem to help much.
December 21st, 2009 at 8:47 pm
So… I’m not one of those “oh my dios we’re doomed let’s just fire everyone” people. I’m just looking for what would be in the best interest of the team.
What’s become obvious is that we officially need a pass-first point guard. Tony has never been that, and that doesn’t really play into his game. The fault is not on Tony; that’s just not his game. George Hill, while inexperienced, has shown flashes of brilliance this year and is ready to step up. He is also a more versatile defender than Tony, being able to shut down some key players on other teams.
So, the Spurs need another weapon that will also provide defensive toughness. I present that man:
Andre Iguodala.
Now, I’m not saying this trade would ever go down (it most definitely wouldn’t). I’m just wondering how other people would react.
I think we can all agree that Iguodala is a beast. His long arms and quickness puts him at 4th in the NBA at just over 2 steals a game. Throw in 20 points a game and 5.5 assists, and Andre is an amazing all-around player.
Again, this trade would probably never happen and I’m sure there would have to be some other pieces involved, but if I was Holt/Popovich and the Sixers’s GM offered me this deal, I would take it.
Thoughts?
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