Tuesday, February 16th, 2010...1:16 pm
Report: Spurs Shopping McDyess (Updated)
According to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports, the Spurs are looking to trade Antonio McDyess in anticipation of trading for Tyrus Thomas:
The Spurs have been searching for expiring deals to move McDyess, who will make $4.9 million next season and is guaranteed about $2.6 million in 2011-12. Trading McDyess would free minutes and give them greater flexibility to re-sign Thomas this summer if they want. Thomas would give the Spurs a younger, more athletic complement to Tim Duncan, and could be part of a future frontline with former first-round pick Tiago Splitter and rookie DeJuan Blair.
Woj’s analysis seems to hit the nail on the head. If were to trade for (and re-sign) Thomas, as well as sign Splitter, the frontcourt might not have enough minutes to go around. Although McDyess has had his critics amongst Spurs fans this season, I’m a defender of his, and Tim Varner may present some evidence over the next day or two suggesting the Spurs have been at their best when he and Duncan are on the floor together.
Nonetheless, a de facto replacement of McDyess by Thomas would reflect the long term, youth-oriented thinking I’ve been a proponent of recently. Depending on whom McDyess is traded for, it also gives the Spurs more financial flexibility headed into this summer, as the team would no longer be responsible for the $7.5 million McDyess is guaranteed for the remainder of his contract.
Woj throws out the Denver Nuggets as a team with which McDyess would fit smoothly, but names no other potential trade partners.
N.B. Our last two posts have cited reports by Adrian Wojnarowski. The NBA is always ridden with unsubstantiated rumors in the days leading up to the trade deadline, but we do not believe either of these reports are exemplary of that journalistically irresponsible atmosphere. Woj is a good reporter and both Tim and I believe there are good reasons to take these reports seriously.
Update: The Express-News is reporting that multiple league sources have said the Spurs are not shopping McDyess but “they are in a listening mode in advance of Thursday’s deadline.”
80 Comments
February 16th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Such a move is almost indicative of giving up on this season in favor of the future. Whether you like Thomas or not, it’s safe to say that having him as the 2nd -3rd best big man on this team is not going to result in a deep playoff run this season (not that it’s a given with the current roster anyway, but at least McDyess is a veteran and was in training camp this year). No matter Thomas’ upside, he can’t reach in a few short months while trying to learn a new system. But long term, it may be the way to go…
February 16th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
I like McDyess, but I like moving his contract better.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
If we don’t look desperate now, then we never have. This is horrible. What happend? This was going to be the team we all hoped for and they have struggled. But i like McDyess and Mason Jr alot a think they are a better team with them. Dyess cause he can get boards and hustles {although old}. Mason has come and gone but he is still good. We need to get rid of Finely, Ian, and maybe bogans. We need young bigs down low. We need to get younger and faster and more aggressive. Attack and defend. More of both. But i like to keep some of our good players like these two and get rid of the fading star’s.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Actually this trade would not necessarily indicate giving up on this season. The defensive rotation scheme wouldn’t really affect Thomas - he would be free to just switch and try to block shots. The complicated part of the Spurs defense is all the rest of the players rotating (in sync) to cover the man Thomas is going to leave when he contests the shot. This is why Nazr Mohammed could be added mid-year without too much trouble - he was free to follow his instincts, it was the rest of the Spurs who were having to know how to make their rotations.
This is also why I’m not really that concerned about integrating Thomas into the Spurs defensive concepts - Thomas’ only job, really, is to react to what’s going on and protect the rim.
The problematic part is going to be offense, but since he’s not going to be the focal point of the offensive flow anyway, it might work out.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
I completely disagree with the notion that the spurs are giving up the season by acquiring Thomas, and trading out McD. This is definitely a youth-infusion movement, but this also helps add more athleticism in depth up in the middle that they’ve been seriously lacking in the season. They obviously must feel comfortable about the players they’ve got up front, in order to make a deal like this happen-as this opens the door more minutes to other players in an area that was previously crowded (I’m still high on Mahinmi—who knows, maybe getting McD out could be the best thing for him). Now, McDyess hasn’t been setting off fireworks with consistent play throughout the season. Thomas is young, has a good defensive presence, and can still make an impact on the team, if placed in a role he can commit to. The team doesn’t expect him to grasp the complete system, only areas in which he feels confident with him excelling in—just as confident the spurs must feel in dealing for the young man. Overall, i like the feel of this deal (if and when it happens).
February 16th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
I just thought I should add that I actually think McDyess has played pretty well (especially lately, when he’s been great) - so I’m sort of ambivalent about moving him.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
I know the RC/Pop tandem is supposedly the best front office in the league, but how did they completely strike out this off season? They made FIVE acquisitions that have really, really disappointed (Jefferson, Dice, Bogans, Ratliff, Haislip). The only move to be applauded now is drafting Blair. But really, 1 out of 6 is horrible. 1 out of 6 just plain sucks.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Blazers just traded for Camby, a trade which make it look like the Spurs could have had him in exchange for Bonner and Mason and maybe Mahinmi, which I think we all would have LOVED for this season, gaining a shot blocker and one of the best help defenders in the game today. Camby probably has 2-3 productive seasons following this one… Oh, well.
Can Ty Thomas become a GREAT help defender? If so I say go for it, although McD isn’t a piece I’m dying to move. We need to build for the future, Dallas and, now, Portland (on paper at least) have 2 of the 4 best rosters in the NBA (not counting Cleveland, Denver, or any of the teams that may yet might upgrade talent this week, such as Houston trading Tracy for Iggy and Dalembert. The Spurs need to shake things up to compete with the elite in the West.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
I don’t think these moves (if they should happen) would mean the spurs are giving up. The timing to me says it’s a response to the Mavs and the Blazers, both of whom just completed deals that brought size and defense in hopes of getting somewhere in the West.
We only see bits and pieces of the front office’s plan, and we don’t know what’s true and what’s not. I do expect the Spurs are trying to get something together and it will likely involve acquiring a big man. But since we only have to wait until Thursday at the latest to find out looking at this too closely is a waste of brainpower.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Whatever happens with Thomas, it will at worst be a 3 month test drive.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
AP,
I don’t think RC and POP have gone 1 for 6 on offseason acquisitions. If McDyess, Ratliff, or Bogans were “really disappointing,” than I think your expectations were way too inflated. I think all three have played about as well as reasonably could have been expected. It took McDyess longer to warm up than I had hoped, that’s about my only gripe with any of the three of them. And Haislip was always a gamble: Great if he worked out, cost almost nothing if he didn’t.
Jefferson is the real disappointment.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Why why why why?
McDyess has been playing much better lately and can stretch things for Timmy.
Tyrus has been a malingering horror for the bulls and CANNOT shoot to save himself.
I watched him go 1 for 18 or something crazy like that vs Boston last year and he had no compunction in bricking it up and up and up.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Hopefully the Spurs are just throwing up smokescreens to disguise the brilliant move they’re actually cooking up in the back room.
People always use the word potential to describe Tyrus Thomas. I think he mostly has the potential to make Spurs fans realize trading for Richard Jefferson is not the worst mistake you can make.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
As a coda I think this trade makes immediate sense if there’s the addition of another big man (somebody like boozer) or if the details are wrong and we’re trying to get Thomas and KEEP Dice.
The theme of the West this year is more, more, and bigger, bigger. Dice is doing great on both ends of the floor but can’t give us more than 20-25 minutes a night. We need somebody who can spell Duncan as the big man, not somebody who runs out of gas first and sits till the third. If Dice were coming off the bench and there were some THIRD player who could soak up minutes as a true big man, then the spurs could play the kind of basketball I expect to see out of Dallas LA and Denver from here out.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
McDyess: 35 years old. Thomas: 23 years old.
If Spurs want a late season push, I think more youth is necessary, as we have a lot of experience. Sad to see Dice go (if it’s true), especially since he has stepped up lately.
I really can’t see Mason getting more playing time anywhere in the league. He would have to go to a bad team but he won’t get the shots. He needs to have other offensive weapons around him to make him stick out.
I just saw a headline: Bulls want Jefferson for Luol Deng. Sadly it was for Al Jefferon.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
@AP
I agree with you, alot of people around the country overhyped the Dice and Jefferson acquisitions this summer, but I was NEVER excited about either, considering what LA had, and even thought Marion was a better gamble. As for Blair, we got lucky that he fell all the way to us at 37! I mean that was just a gift.
And our front office has made dozens of blunders, trading away our good draft choices (Barbosa, Scola, Goran Dragic, to name a few) and keeping poor ones. Not to mention, since we apparently didn’t value Dragic that highly anyway, couldn’t we have taken Nicolas Batum with our first round pick, and the unknown George Hill with the 45th pick?
Let’s hope the front office gets smarter going forward!
February 16th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Hold on, There’s a lot of moving parts here. Be patient all will be revealed in about 72 hrs.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
hopefully, some deal may come into fruition.
dice has had some solid games as of late, but creating cap space and moving towards the future seems to be much more important than limping into the playoffs with dashed hopes of a championship. tyrus thomas is an excellent defender. i think we would rather have his shot contention on the floor than an occasional 12ft jumper.
rmj’s minutes were so influx this year. he is a great shooter, but only a shooter, which means he will only be productive as long as he can keep a streak going. mason would be ideal playing with another dominant big who can give him some quality shots. nice to have you, roger. made some good memories.
we should include finley, and perhaps, bonner to sweeten the deal. no one wants mahinmi unless he proves he is worth acquiring (although his contract maybe be worth it enough). maybe with dice and bonner gone, we could see what he can/can’t do. worst case scenario? mahinmi’s contract expires
February 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Surely we can do better than Tyrus Thomas. If this is true I read this as a desperation move at best, I’d rank it akin to the Shaq to Phoenix trade.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
I think the front office has been very smart with their moves. We get to judge the acquisition of Jefferson now as a failure after having seen half a season of play. At the time of that trade, most everyone (but not everyone) thought it was a great move. The failure of a front office move to yield results does not mean the logic or reasoning behind it were wrong.
One other thing to keep in mind when judging the front office is that they operate in one of the smallest sports markets in all U.S. sports, if not the smallest. Just keeping the Spurs competitive for as long as they have, let alone winning 4 championships, is a tremendous feet. I’m not saying every move has been great, but there have been legit reasons for every move, with some of those reasons having been financial in nature. Financial moves, while not popular, let you live to fight, and possibly win, another day.
@td4life - I would not call those set of moves blunders. One of the innovations of our front office was to draft players they could stash overseas or pawn off on other teams in order to stay financially stable while fielding championship caliber teams. Each of those moves was made during the glory years of the Spurs championship runs. As for Batum, he was not available when the Spurs drafted Hill. Portland swooped in and traded with Houston to take him one pick before Hill. I remember seeing reports that the Spurs were going to take Batum, but Portland jumped ahead of them in a trade.
Lastly, I’d like to share one idea I have had for a while - that the front office had a set of long term plans years ago which were thrown off the rails when Splitter decided not to come to the NBA. Just think if Splitter had been gaining NBA experience that past few years with his skill level. That last Splitter theory is more of a gut feeling for me, but I think my Splitter idea, combined with the Gasol trade really left them scrambling to come up with a new long-term plan to not only stay competitive, but win more championships.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Td4Life, i have to take umbrage with your criticising the spurs draft decisions.
Our record in the draft is excellent. If you can hit on about 50% of your choices your amongst the leagues elite.
Splitter, Blair, Hill, Manu, TP, even Hairston are excellent or beyond excellent draft picks.
Manu alone is the biggest draft steal in the last 20 years.
It’s an inexact science, but one we have a prestigious track record in.
Batum was nobodies fault. As mentioned above he went one pick to early, and he has been injury plagued thus far.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Giving up Dice and acquiring TT is a suicidal move to say the least. I thought R.C. and Pop are better than this… I really hope this indeed is a mere smokescreen to hide the genious move like dogg is suggesting.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Thank you @jezav for a well thought out comment that defends the front office. These guys gave us 4 championships in 10 years (the last 1 just 3 years ago), so I think that buys them another 10 before we should start whining. I have full faith that these guys know that they’re doing and will probably get the job done. Show a little loyalty y’all… I’m just sayin….
February 16th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
@td4life
It’s pretty easy to say the FO has made “dozens of blunders” when you know how each player has turned out. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Lest we all forget, this FO has managed to win 4 championships with one lottery pick and no marquee free agent signings. The last 45 picks of the draft are a crapshoot anyways, so it’s a testament to the genius of the FO that we have drafted 2 All-Stars and many, many rotation players.
Nothing we say here will influence what happens, so let’s all sit back and enjoy the ride. I’m stoked about what the best FO in the league can accomplish in the next 2.5 days.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
I’m with you BigGuy,
I don’t want Thomas but if the spurs grab him i’ll trust that they know more about the state of things than I.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs
It appears to be another baseless rumor involving the Spurs. Adrian Wojnarowski’s reputation is taking a severe beating. 1st amare and now dice. I am guessing that he will stop commenting on Spur’s rumors henceforth.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Wrong link…
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2010/02/sources-spurs-h.html
Sorry!
February 16th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
how about the fact that thomas comes with john salmons? salmons is a guy who can surely help this team. he is athletic, can hit open shots, rebounds some, gets to the line, and has some heart. he would be included in the deal for thomas. both can defend which is the key, thomas would provide the interior defense that dice, bonner, blair are not. he is a decent rebounder but his shot blocking is something sorely missed (shot blocking has been pointed out on this very site).
all in all i have no problem with it. would rather keep dice and let bonner go though. sure we lose his 3 ball but then we are not the suns, the spurs play defense and that has surely been a lost art ever since they got bonner.
I BLAME THE RED ROCKET!
February 16th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
splitter news.
http://www.marca.com/charlas/splitter/15022010.html
its in spanish, but the only thing you need to know its this.
when asked about the nba 3 times? he ignored the question twice and the one time he mentioned it…he said: “about the NBA, we will see”.
so the future is not as bright as we wish.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
Something is seriously wrong in San Antonio. Now Spurs want to trade Mcdyess? I would get more into this one, but I see no need. This is ridiculous. We need a fresh perspective in San Antonio…Pop has bottomed out…Better get his @#$%$% outta here before we have no team left!
February 16th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Lets get real. We have our big three along with Mcdyess, Blair, Hill, Mason, and Jefferson. The rest of the guys on that bench are questionable at best. No decent player is going to come here and play behind Bonner and Bogans. We ran our playoff hopes out of town already and Im sure that more will follow. Bring on Avery Johnson or give Shaun Elliott a shot. We need a new coach and a new philosophy. The ship is sinking fast!
February 16th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
@Nadeem, you can’t be serious. Mike Monroe is really an impartial writer, oh wait he isn’t. The Spurs probably would have denied the Mason scoop that Yahoo had but Mason’s agent made a statement.
It makes perfect sense to move Mcdyess if we decide to bring in Thomas. By no means has Mcdyess proven to be a game changer and while Thomas wouldn’t be either the 13 year age difference that someone mentioned earlier def makes it worth the gamble. Combined with Splitter, and Blair the Spurs would have a variety of different strenghts on front line.
February 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
So the answer now is Thomas? ROFLMAO!
Thomas cant hold a candle to Dice. If we didnt have a coach that has to be able to control his players minds, we might attract some high caliber guys. This seasons shortcommings are not player induced and we all know that. Stop trying to powder this coach’s nose and put it out there like it is. But, you might get yelled at…
February 16th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Spurs shopping Jefferson:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/02/16/jefferson.rumors/index.html?eref=sihp
February 16th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
@BALLHOG
I will respectfully disagree with your assertion that the “seasons [sic] shortcommings [sic] are not player induced and we all know that.” Parker, Manu, and Jefferson are all falling short of expectations for various reasons, and it is because of this that we are falling behind as an elite team. How can you possibly ignore 12 seasons of coaching excellence?
Your nomination of Avery for coach is a very odd choice seeing as he’s known around the league as Pop 2.0. Have you forgotten about his heavy handed ways in Dallas that got him fired?
February 16th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
@cory clay - i did not say anything abt partiality. Regardless, i actually like adrian and never miss any of his articles. He just has a bad streak (even counting roger) going on the Spurs trade rumors front.
The news abt spurs shopping Jefferson is not new and so is the news abt them not finding a suitable trade for him.
February 16th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
ok how about this
word is that chris kaman is up for grabs, and the clips have made it known they want to let thornton go as well. so….
kaman/thornton for bonner/dice/mason
February 16th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
LOL!! I love the trade deadline. First Mason, then Mcdyess, and now Jefferson. @ Rangerjohn, I would take Chris Kaman in an instant and the trade you suggested would be GREAT for the Spurs. I believe LA wants to go after a big name free agent this summer and are trying to clear some cap space. Kaman would be a HUGE upgrade on our frontline. Don’t know whats going down in the next two days, but its gonna be fun! I got a feeling the FO has some little trick up their sleeve.
February 16th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
@Hobson13
I like it if they got Kaiman.
Otherwise I hate this idea of trading Mcdeezy. He’s really been coming along lately. He’s a veteran, its safe to say he’s been pacing himself for the playoffs. I think he’s going to be huge in the playoffs.
I hope its just a rumor, but if they got Kaiman then sign me up.
February 16th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
hobson
the trade can be made to match without dice and only exp contracts also like adding finley and mahinmi, maybe some cash. the only problem would be minutes. although the rotation would not be to bad, duncan and kaman start, dice and blair off the bench. then you have thornton and RJ at the SF spot maybe move one over the 2 guard. (ok thats a stretch)
February 16th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
@Nadeem, you wrote that his reputation had been damaged b/c a S.A. writer wrote a denial, I just pointed out that an S.A. writer who’s livelyhood is based on the amount of access that the home team gives him is going to write whatever they tell him to write.
February 16th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
I think that Pop is far from perfect, but overall I stand behind keeping him in charge at least until after our roster has been overhauled…
I am pleased to see guys defending the FO, but I think the statement “league’s best FO” is arguable… though they are certainly in the conversation… still it hurt to get so little back for Scola, and Barbosa (we could have made that trade AFTER JKidd signed/didn’t sign)…. and, the bottom line is that it’s at least 55% luck… Splitter may haunt us yet, pray not.
I agree with jezav that Splitter’s decision combined with the Gasol trade scrambled the spurs strategy to contend… but that doesn’t dismiss this last summer, where I just plain got depressed about throwing all that money at McD and RJ, and I never understood pundits claiming that we could now topple LA, lol, while totally writing off Chauncey&Co, or Dallas after their upgrade… but I could see we thought that IF each of our so-called “Big 3″ had one of their best seasons yet, we would be in the mix (still, a big “if” though)… I could also live with losing Bowen and Thomas, cuz we needed to change, but I knew Bowen’s absence was gonna cost us.
Finally, I’m generally in favor of keeping a squad together (wheras most teams do a Mark Cuban, or a post 2000 season Blazers and break it up to early, or assume that firing the coach will fix things, lol), but:
- Bonner hurts us, even playing him like Danny Ferry won’t but us over (thank you Stephan Jackson)
- Tony is an inferior defender, is not an smart playmaker, and is a mediocore shooter… and he’s losing his greatest physical gift (quickness) going forward. Anybody who says otherwise is starstruck. An upgrade at point is a game-changer. Can I hear an “Amen!” Anybody?
- To contend we need a stellar defensive squad.
Our best chance to contend is in the Duncan/Popovich era. If we can ship RJ (who can be a better fit on certain teams, and is a short contract; if packaged with the right pieces, he’s not untradable) and/or TP, can we get back size, defense, and/or a true PG, or at least be built for the future.
I’m grateful for what the Spurs accomplished leading up to and in the Duncan/Popovich era, but I also A) despise Kobe, and B) believe the Spurs will someday win back-to-back championships… because of our small market, we will do so in large part because of Spurs Defense.
February 16th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
It’s hilarious that Spurs fans think that Kaman, or Speights for that matter, and the like can be had. Hilarious!
February 16th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
I would trade Mcdyess, Bonner and Finley for Kaman in a heart beat! (financially makes since too)! Huge upgrade to our frontline as mentioned! but if the spurs are looking for a Ty thomas type player, I say go for A. jamison from the wizards!
February 16th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
@td4life: I doubt we could get Kaman, but there’ve been a lot of rumors around him since last summer. I truly believe LA wants to make a run at Lebron and they have good young talent that MAY cause him to think about it. I’m with you when you said an RJ or TP package might be able to net us something good. We aren’t 1 player away from contending (unless you count Wade, Lebron, etc.). And theres no way we can get an impact player for spare parts and expiring contracts. We need to look at serious changes in the next few days and probably a move over the summer also. The only pieces I would consider untouchable would be Duncan, Blair, and maybe Hill. Everyone else would be up for discussion if I were GM. I still maintain that TP would be a HUGE trading chip and could be our ticket to the future if traded.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
It’s also funny when fans think a mike miller, or a jamison puts us over. Not even the mavs last 3 acquisitions into their starting lineup are that frightening to the true contenders.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
For those whiners about Coach Pop, give it a rest, please. The guy’s one of the 5-10 best coaches of ALL-TIME; nothing’s changed. Fact is we have an aging, more injury prone core from our championship years, and even though things haven’t work out thus far this year to meet our hopes and dreams (in some cases, inflated) for a title challenge as a result of the big trades we made in the off-season, using Pop as a scapegoat is silly. Believe me, there’s nothing wrong with Pop. He knows way more than anyone on this blog how to win with the players he has at any given time. And remember, at some point you have to put sub-par performance on the player, particularly with a veteran, mature squad like ours. Every veteran on this team has thus far under-performed, regardless of coaching. This starts with Jefferson, of course, but all of the other veterans are not playing up to their ability: Parker, Manu, Dice, Mace, Bonner, & even Duncan is not as dominant or consistent as he used to be. We can always second-guess coaches on player minutes, or their substitution system, but this really reflects on our own frustration with the PLAYERS for not playing smart, lacking consistent hustle & determination, and just for their basic failure of not MAKING THINGS HAPPEN while they are on the court, and in the clutch. For example, where is the confidence & pride of these veteran, successful players, to lose so many games in the fourth quarter against competitive teams? (unlike any of our teams over the past ten years!) These were not coaching problems. Coaches can only do so much; it is the players that have to be willing to push their god-given talent to the limit, night in and night out, and execute the scheme provided them when it counts most.
One thing is for certain: Pop will never get fired. He would quit first if he felt the team wasn’t going to play for him. So, can we drop the Pop complaints?; it’s thoroughly counterproductive, and usually irrational.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
thank you Hobson13! But no way the clippers ship Kaman (their all-star and the one guy that might lure them someone special) out to make room for a long shot. Sad, but true. I can see why you’d want him though.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Thatbigguy,
Parker is a gamer. He not only has the intangiables, he has the guts that it takes to win. Same goes for Duncan and Ginnobli. They are not the problem, they have always been the solution. Personnel decisions have hurt this team. Spurs have given away a lot of talent over the last decade and it has finally caught up to them.
Even the recent player decisions have been extremely questionable. First, Haislip could play. I just watched some very impressive film of him playing in Greece. This kid was young and athletic, he could score, rebound, and defend. Why the Spurs would sign him to a three year contract and suddenly release him is bizarre….As usual…No explaination offered!
Then there is Hariston. Better right now than Bogans and Finley, yet he is relegated to the Toros again.
Ratiff and Mahinmi could contribute now, but continue to pick up DNP’s.
Blair is mismanaged. He can score at will in the paint. Spurs should be posting him up and running some offense thru him.
Same goes for Dice and Jefferson. These guys arent suddenly scrubs. These are successful NBA players and have been for thier entire careers. They are accustomed to being options in thier teams offense, not garbage men!
As long as the Spurs continue to try and win with the lineups and rotations that are currently in place, it’s over. Pop is playing guys that wouldnt play 1 minute on 70% of the teams in the NBA.
Im not bashing the coach. I just think that his unusual filtering process for selecting players is no longer effective. The leauge has caught up to him and passed him and he has yet to adjust.
Adelman and Carlysle have less talented rosters, at least before this recent trade, but have done quite well. They have done well enough to make the Spurs the 3rd best team in Texas.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
“the third best team in Texas”… OUCH!!
February 16th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
@td4life
Actually if by some miracle The Spurs get Jamison, that would put them over the top. He is a sure 20 and 10 guy.
And I have to defend Bonner. He spreads the floor and can hit the three. SOmething the SPurs lack this season. And now that RMJ might go, Bonner would be the best shooter. So what if they take him to the rim a couple of times. That’s hoops you gotta give up something. Besides they can’t shoot 100% against him. He’ll burn right back with the 3.
As for trading TP, come on. He still can blow by people even with his injury. Its not his fault that the rest of the guys can’t hit wide open 3s which allows teams to close up the paint.
And you say an upgrade is needed. Who is an upgrade from TP?
Let me guess you want Devin Harris.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
Deven Harris for TP? LMAO! Good joke though. Here is a thought concerning Duncan, Parker, and Ginnobli….Maybe they could all benefit from some time in the weight room. Upper body strength could improve. This stands true most with Ginnobli. He has gotten so small that we thought he was sick. As age creeps up on a player, it becomes more and more about strength and conditioning. Our big three could use a little of both!
February 16th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
Jim Henderson = LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
LOLOL
LOLOLOLOL
Thanks for giving me a laugh. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
February 16th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
@Ballhog, I would make the exact opposite argument on just about every topic you brought up.
If Haislip was such a prospect why is it that he isn’t on any other NBA team? You don’t think the Spurs would have tried to turn him into some kind of asset if possible? No one else wanted him. And where do you get 3 years from? If his contract was for anything more than 1 year the 2nd was a team option.
Malik Hairston is a potential contributor in the future but by no means would I want him playing crunch time minutes when the team needs someone to knock down a big shot. While Finley’s best days are behind him he is still def a clutch player that knows the system and can make open shots.
How exactly has Blair been mismanaged? We are getting more production out of Blair than a ton of teams are getting out of their 1st round picks. At the same time it is obvious that Blair is still learning what he can do in the League and how he can be most effective, off the bench with Manu is a great role for him.
Bogans was a gamble that seems to have ended, if he had knocked down open shots I would have no problem with him playing, he didnt knock down open shots and now just about all of his minutes are going to George Hill.
Dice and Jefferson have not done anything close to what was expected from either of them and I have no idea how you can turn that into a coaching issue. Yes Jefferson loses his man in transition b/c of coaching instructions, give me a break. Dice has actually started to play better and that in my opinion is due to Pop trying out a variety of methods to get Mcdyess going, first starting him, then bringing him off the bench and now having him start again.
As far as Ratliff goes, I expect to see him in the playoffs, no sense in using him know and risk him breaking his fossil like bones.
February 16th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
@junierizzle
devin harris is just another guy in the mold of tony parker, minus the experience, except he’s maybe a better overall scorer.
Collison in New Orleans, on the other hand, is raw and a bit of a project, but he scores, is pass first, and takes pride in his defense. Hardly one dimensional.
I’m not suggesting that we can trade Tony directly for an instant answer at point guard, but I think Manu can handle the ball more, and that Stojakovich is an RJ-like disappointment for the Hornets, whereas RJ would be a better fit for them. A lot of our minor assets might fit will with them, both in their front court, and to get scoring help next to/behind CP3, and they have to realize they need to blow things up there.
TP or RJ gets you Peja to land Collison.
TP and RJ, and maybe Bonner, RMj, or Mahinmi gets you those two plus David West (who the Hornets have been trying to move since the summer)… I don’t drool over West (but he, too, could potentially be traded and would be a good fit in, say, Chicago) and I’m not saying that such a move would happen, but I’d just like to know that the Spurs know what needs to be fixed, are thinking big picture, not small changes, and not over guys that do some good things but keep us from contending (this is the case with Bonner and Parker.)
February 16th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
trade TP is seeming more every day like a word that rhymes with mole? pole? toll?
February 16th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
McDyess hasnt done anything for us to be championship caliber. Even if his play is “improving” by some standards, we’re not close to being competitive for the title.
BUT… Say we do bring in Thomas. Like any new player POP will REFUSE to play him. Gooden last year…. I hate Gooden and I thought the trade was a horrible decision, but he played decent the 3 minutes he was in the game. How did we know he wouldnt be as useful as McDyess or Ratliff this year?
February 16th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Let’s just leave RJ on the Rodeo Road Trip and everyone is happy.
February 16th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Phoebus- Its becuase you get these “fans” who think that every move their team makes is the right one, and dont really look at things objectively. Words that sound like gomer, foamer, domer…..
February 16th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
@td4life
I have only seen Collison a handful of times. I don’t get the impression that he is a pass first gaurd. He’s like TP in the sense that he is aggressive on offense. He’s great for a rookie. Infact, the recent game against the Celtics. The hornets won, but there were a couple of plays where Collison shot instead of passing. Passing would have been the better play.
He looks like he might be great in a couple of years.
Devin Harris is solid but I wouldn’t say he is a better scorer than TP.
The injury clearly F’d up TP’s season. Still he’s been effective. He played out of his mind last season. I think we all expected to see the same thing. It’s just bad luck about the injury. TP single handedly led the Spurs to the Playoffs last season.
Collison is still a long way from doing the same thing.
As for David West. I know he’s an All Star, but he hasn’t looked good since his All Star year.
I wouldn’t mind having Peja though. He is asked to do too much for The Hornets. If he were on The Spurs he would just have to worry about hitting the wide open 3.
It seems that you are mentioning players if the Spurs started to look for the future. So a player like Collison makes sense. But I don’t think The Spurs are blowing it up just yet.
Maybe next season when TP’s contract is up.
February 16th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Trade Roger Mason Jr and Tony Parker for Devin Harris, Courtney Lee, and Kenyon Dooling.
Taller, younger, athletic, better defenders @ the guard spots.
Don’t forget Harris and Lee have both played on teams in an NBA finals!
February 16th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
@junierizzle
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yz6haxh
and, yes, we’d building for next season and beyond. Swapping West for Parker gives clears one year of salary for the Hornets. Chi needs post scoring.
Or we just leave chicago out of it, but have still made some forward-looking changes.
The above scenarios still leave the spurs in a flexible position to improve defensively. Camby is still a free agent this summer. Tony Parker “carried us into the playoffs” and then we got exposed… this season and beyond is even worse with Portland looking hungry and Dallas making strides.
i should have been clearer: I’ve never made any campaign for a Devin Harris, and I never will. Never. Never Ever.
February 16th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
@Ivmainman
be careful with your arguments… ie, don’t forget Harris and Lee both PLAY on the worse team we’ve ever seen!
February 16th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Trade Tony Parker?
Are you guys drunk?
The guy is an absolute BEAST. Did you see him last season single-handedly gang rape team (yeah, one-man gang rape - that’s how good he was). is injured performances are not representatives of him perfectly fit.
The big issue with this team is not players as such. It is mentality.
If this team had some balls in the 4th-quarter and didn’t go to collect their pensions in the 3rd-quarter they’re comfortably the number 2 seed. That’s the truth. The team does not have the mentality of winners. And no trade would really change that (unless you got like old school Michael Jordan).
February 16th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
I’ve got my ‘net connection on for any late-breaking news for a possible trade…
There’s this rumor about the Heat discussing a trade with the Spurs regarding Mason and another player for Haslem and Wright. However, no details had been provided, except that Pat Riley has been rooting for Mason two years back.
Right now, I do acknowledge the need to further upgrade, given the trade Dallas made and the stability of the Lakers, but should the SA-Miami trade pushes through, does this make sense?
I don’t see the Spurs trading any of the Big Three, Hill and Blair to any NBA team, unless they’re getting a younger All-Star caliber player (I’m still fantasizing about a Parker& Mason trade for Wade).
February 16th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
“The calls being placed by Spurs general manager R.C. Buford are a stark admittance that he made a mistake when trading Bruce Bowen, Kurt Thomas and Fabricio Oberto to the Milwaukee Bucks for Jefferson, envisioning him as yet another talented scoring option to complement Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.
[...]
Perhaps even more intriguing is whether Buford’s intentions with Jefferson is a sign that he thinks the Spurs in their current form cannot win a title. The Spurs are essentially tied with the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Phoenix Suns for the fifth seed in the Western Conference but have lost eight of their past 14 games.”
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/02/16/jefferson.rumors/index.html#ixzz0flCec3k7
February 16th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
@Rey: I don’t see anyone on that Heat team that the Spurs would want. Who wants Haslem when you have Blair and why would the Spurs trade two expiring contracts for ….two expiring contracts?!? Beasley would be great, but that ain’t happening. I’ve heard Heat fans rave about getting Mason, but they have DWade, Beasley, and a ton of scrubs.
February 16th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
@Hobson13: Haslem’s game is better than what shows up in the stats, and I don’t understand the comparison with Blair other than that they would compete for minutes. Haslem is a good rebounder, as you point out, but his defense is the best part of his game. Blair’s defense is at best adequate. From Hollinger’s scouting report on Haslem:
“As a 6-8 power forward, Haslem gives up inches every night, but he’s one of the league’s toughest players. He battles to push out opponents in the post and is a good help defender who annually ranks among the league leaders in charges; he also does a solid job against the pick-and-roll. If anyone gives him trouble, it’s quick 4s who can take him off the dribble — he’s actually better defending bigger players and using leverage to get under them.”
February 16th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Just a few more trade ideas:
I like Mason, and as such I would like to see him stay. If he’s used properly, and given a consistent dose of minutes, he’s shown to be a proven provider on offense, and his defense is acceptable for most situations. That being said, I would like to propose a few trade scenarios that make minor adjustments as well as frees up some dead weight. Mason’s minutes do need to increase, and likewise Bogans need to decrease. We will never see Bruce ressurected in the form of another player, so we need to stop trying to plug in different players to fill his shoes and just play to our strengths. Since we have a surplus of SG’s, why not try and pair them up as an expiring package for a versatile 3? If Mason were going to stay, we could use some extra help at the SF and this is what that scenario is based off of:
1) Bogans, Finley, Mahinmi to Milwaukee for C.Delfino
2) Bogans, Finley, Mahinmi to Minnesota for R.Gomes
3) Bogans, Finley, Mahinmi to Philadelphia for T. Young
(or)
4) Bogans, Finley, Bonner to Sacramento for A. Nocioni
—————————————————-
I like the Delfino or Nocioni additions personally, basically becasue I know they would have good chemisty with Manu off the bench and are all veterans who could pick up the Spurs system. Young would be great, but he’s young (no pun) and has so much promise that i’m sure they would want to keep him, and Minnesota doesnt really have much reason for trading bench players for only 4 mil in expiring contracts, but who knows.
Parker - Hill
Mason - Manu - Hairston
Jefferson - Delfino/ Nocioni
Duncan - Blair
McDyess - Bonner - Ratliff
February 16th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
@ Joe: Why would we want Haslem when Antonio Mcdyess and Blair are both around the same size and both give you good rebounding. McDyess is a better shooter and Blair is a better rebounder. Why does this team need yet another undersized PF or C? At 29 yrs old, Haslem is not an impact player, yet he’s too old to be considered an exciting young prospect. Mason would be better traded for a draft pick and cash as opposed to this. It would be a senseless trade.
February 16th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
just wanted to say that my heart goes out to George Karl and his family. Hope he does well with his treatment, he seems to be a great guy!!!
February 16th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Trading away McDyess and his contract and an apparently disgruntled Roger Mason would not be a bad idea. I mean with the team we have now, we are not championship contenders unless the team chemistry and execution magically fixes itself quickly. So getting a a much younger, athletic big in Ty Thomas would be great, and would help us a lot more than McD next year and down the road.
Also we should try and draft Jarvis Vernardo, I’m not sure if any of yall are paying attention to college basketball, but he’s a great shotblocker that passed Timmy D for 2nd all time in blocks. Also we should trade for a late first or high second round draft pick to go get Damion James, he could easily be the athletic young SF we need going forward and is a great shooter/ defender/ rebounder. So if we could trade Bonner and someone else to make that happen I think its worth it. It could save us money and give Hariston time to play also because he is doing great in the D league.
I agree with the Ty trade and believe that something along this line should be taken as a look towards the furtur to get younger with great talent.
February 16th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
future*
February 16th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Trade TP
Thanks for the LOL, with you’re famous second-guessing of Pop. Here’s a quote from your previous post:
“BUT… Say we do bring in Thomas. Like any new player POP will REFUSE to play him. Gooden last year…. I hate Gooden and I thought the trade was a horrible decision, but he played decent the 3 minutes he was in the game. How did we know he wouldnt be as useful as McDyess or Ratliff this year?”
So, Trade TP, let me ask you this: Do you think Pop might know something about Gooden that you don’t know? Something that might help explain why he’s been with eight teams in his eight years in the league, perhaps? LOL
And BALLHOG, since Pop manages his players so poorly, and “the league has passed by”, maybe RC should hire you as coach. Hell, we still might have won 20 games this year, simply because it’s ultimately a “players game”.
I know, he won the 4 titles because of the players, but he’s struggling now because of his coaching. You guys and your POP critique give me a big LOL!
February 17th, 2010 at 1:35 am
Good job Mr.Henderson.
Pop is a future Hall of famer.
Drew Goodens on his Ninth team in Eight years.
I am pretty sure Pop made a good decision there.
A lot of uninformed stuff flowing the last few days.
February 17th, 2010 at 4:12 am
If the decision was so great to ACQUIRE HIM why then sit him on the bench. ESPECIALLY when we didnt have any bigs… DUMB.
LOLOLOLOL @ Bushka and Jim
February 17th, 2010 at 8:07 am
@ Jim Henderson
What did POP know about Gooden that we didnt?
Gooden averaged 10 and 4 in 19 games
McDoosh averages 6 and 5 in 40+
Where is the improvement? McD plays more time than Gooden did MPG. So WTF?
It doesnt matter to me that he has been with 8 teams. But the fact of the matter is Pop has this infatuation with old guys. And that was a great idea 4-5 years ago when Tim could pick up EVERYONEs slack. But now it doesnt work.
So youre saying that only POP could have won 4 rings with the teams we had? And Phil could have only won with MJ Kobe and Shaq right?
Pop had a great idea while it lasted. But to continue to be effective we have to evolve with the players, money, and style of play.
HOF - sure
5-10 Best coaches of all time??? Came in with Tim, will leave with Tim. You dont really “coach” domination. In all honesty the 5-10 best basketball coaches of all time are probably coaches who took junk teams and made them competive. But no one will ever know who those coaches are because they most likely didnt have the games most dominant player(s).
I mean Mike Brown… He BLEW before LEbron. Now suddenly he is coach of year? Honestly.?! When Lebron takes over and wins his rings will his coach be top coach of all time? Or will he just be the lucky SOB who sat in the front row watching LeBron dunk on everyone else?
February 17th, 2010 at 8:48 am
@BALLHOG
I will second Cory Clay’s comment that I would disagree with pretty much every point you made.
Listen to what you said about Haislip, “I just watched some very impressive film of him playing in Greece.” Hello! It’s Greece! He kills in a league full of unathletic players by overpowering them with his own freakish athleticism. But the NBA is full of guys faster, quicker, and stronger than he, and so he stays on the bench. That’s not mismanagement, that’s reality. Besides, Haislip didn’t have the balls to ride out this season, work on his game, and try crack the rotation next season, so he asked to be waived.
Hairston is in the same exact situation. He’s killing against lesser competition in the D-League by using his athleticism, but he can’t cut it at the NBA level yet. It’s looking more and more less likely that he’ll be able to break into our rotation.
How does Blair score? He finds angles and space off the ball, not with the ball! As soon as he posts up, bigger defenders have way too much of a physical advantage. He is used perfectly, he needs no “touches.”
Maybe Jefferson isn’t a scrub, but he has been very scrubby so far. You can’t argue with that. Plus, Pop has given Jeff so many opportunities to stop sucking, yet Jeff continues to suck.
Ratliff is injury insurance and playoff beef, nothing more. He’s cheap, big, and professional. Bogans played well early, but has since lost his minutes to Hill, who has progressed faster than imagined. Also, Bogans is cheap as well.
This all boils down to something a casual fan doesn’t understand: practice. The only way to get minutes is to earn them in practice. I would say that all your mismanaged players get raped in practice by these old guys. That’s why they don’t play. If Hairston/Haislip/Mahinmi consistently get manhandled by Finley/Dice/Bonner in practice, they don’t deserve game time. Simple.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:59 am
So you’re saying that Practice holds more weight than games?
Bonner hits 25/25 threes in practice. McDyess outrebounds John Smith in practice. RJ shoots 44% in practice.
Thursday night hero.
“Insert AI quotes about Practice here”
There has to be some sort of balance between what you do in preparation and how you perform in competition. How does that make sense to continually give crappy performers minutes in the game?
Would you say that Matt Bonner is the best player to ever play the game if he schooled Jordan every practice but played like he does now during games?
I understand what you’re saying about Pop getting to see the players skill sets on a regular basis but practice?
February 17th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
mate you need to watch NBA games and understand how they are played.
Until you do the stuff you spout is going to keep sounding inane and insane.
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