Wednesday, February 17th, 2010...9:40 pm
Indiana Pacers 87, San Antonio Spurs 90
As fluid and sexy as basketball sometimes is, it’s not that way all the time. Many times it’s a game of miscommunication and error.
Wednesday night at Conseco Fieldhouse was one of those times.
San Antonio shot just 35% from the floor and 29% from behind the three-point line, yet still beat the Indiana Pacers 90-87.
Perhaps no one’s performance on the night personified the win as much as Tim Duncan’s, who shot 4-23 from the field en route to eight points, yet totalled 26 rebounds, five assists and led the game in +/- at +19.
It was a lucky break on the schedule that the Spurs were playing the 18-34 Pacers on this night. Coming back from the All-Star break, the Spurs went down 20-10 early, courtesy of their seldom-used starting five of Duncan, Keith Bogans, Matt Bonner, George Hill and Tony Parker.
San Antonio had trouble all game keeping Indiana out of the lane and away from the rim, especially Danny Granger, who led the Pacers with 23 points and eight rebounds in 46 minutes of action.
Tony Parker was the catalyst for the Spurs offensively on Wednesday night. With several days off because of All-Star Weekend, Parker started the game fresh and scored the Spurs’ first five points. Despite being slowed with plantar fasciitis for most of the season and lately battling a hip flexor, Parker still boasts an excellent hesitation dribble that allows him space to get to the rim and get his shot off. Against the Pacers, Parker led the Spurs with 28 points.
Making plays when they counted, Manu Ginobili was everything Spurs fans expected of him on Wednesday. Ginobili scored 18 points, handed out seven assists and grabbed six rebounds against the Pacers. His biggest contributions came in the clutch when Manu hit a three-pointer, completed a three-point play (the old-fashioned way) and kept a rebound alive that Duncan was able to tip out to Parker and seal the win.
The Spurs played a far cry from their best basketball and were merely spitting distance of mediocre. Against a good team, San Antonio would almost certainly have lost on Wednesday night. But the Spurs prevailed and are currently just a half-game behind Dallas in the Southwest Division.
62 Comments
February 17th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
no trade=no chance im getting a neg attitude towards pop (never have before)and i think im one out of million right now
February 17th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
I’m on board the Pop train. I see no reason to turn a decade of success on it’s head because of a bad half a season.
Parkers shot to hell with foot, hip & ankle issues, RJ is an imposter, and San Antonio McDyess is only just coming good now.
Manu is manu he’ll get there.
Patience & faith. We don’t look like contenders, but we still have a lot of growth in these horses.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:04 pm
YEAH!!! Spurs win by 3 against an 18 win team! We’re really pulling our shit together now! Watch out Lakers and Cavs!
P.S. Please, please make a trade. Even for just draft picks or cash.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Ginobili, quietly, has now put together a pretty good 4-5 game stretch. I hope that this is a sign that things are rounding out with his game. I am an optimist. Everything else aside, (except Duncan’s 26 rebounds) chalk this up as a game that couldn’t have been won without Ginobili’s intangibles.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
On a side note, Brian Cardinal just got released. I’m thinking he could be the missing piece we’ve been waiting for. Please FO, we need the Custodian!
February 17th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
If Spurs make a good winning streak for the remainder of RRT, this current roster may be enough to contend. I may have been doubtful of Pop’s coaching abilities this season but I’m with him on not needing a roster shake-up before the trade deadline. Spurs have beaten Pacers by one point earlier in the season thanks to TD’s game-winning dunk, so a 3 point win on the road isn’t all that worrying to me actually (on a 35% shooting night no less!). I would like see TP resting to get himself near 100%, however. Others need to get involved on offence more, than Tony taking 20+ shots (even if more than half of them go in).
Signing a F/A who gets bought out after the deadline may be sufficient to fill the needs of this team, may be. I personally don’t think a major trade would help.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Still need an athletic 4 to help rebound, defend and stretch the D.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhDhqgqxKBUkTpWV485ujqe8vLYF?slug=ys-kingstrade021710&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Sacto traded Kmart and change for Tmac and Carl Landry. BAD trade for Houston. Kmart is an injury machine thats a chucker.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:12 pm
It looks like they won’t make a trade after all.
I think its a good thing. The last thing the Spurs need is a new player to work in.
Manu’s coming along.
RMJ played heavy minutes (for Him) and hit some shots. I hope we see more mason.
McDeezy will be there when it counts.
RJ had a decent game and he hit a clutch 3. Hopefully that will get him going.
I think tonight was a good win. Even though the Pacers aren’t a great team. They did take the lead late and The SPurs were able to execute.
A win is a win.
You gotta look at the bright side.
Through all the ups and downs, They are only a half game behind the Mavs.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
Adam is right on. Amare Stoudamire would work. Tim has had little help down there since Mr. Robinson. Robert Horry, Nazr M., malik rose, worked when Tim was younger, hell where’s Fabricio Oberto.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
Pop is one of the best coachest ever and it is pretty unfair to get on him. The one stretch that I thought turned the game into such a close one was the stretch that Blair played where he forced shots and commited unnecessary/overagressive fouls. I love Blair, don’t get me wrong and I would love to watch a game where only Hill, Blair and Mahinmi (if he ever gets in) 20+ shots each, but to win, Blair needs to know his role on the team. We don’t need him to be a Crawford or Al Harrington type of role player.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
I did not like our starting 5 I hope it changes to Dysse, TD, RJ, RMJ, TP ASAP
February 17th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
With or without a trade, there’s no way we win a championship this year. Since that’s really the only measure of success for this team, it only makes sense to start reloading for the future.
Manu will continue to improve (slightly) this season but will never have the same legs he had in 05 or 07-08. It’s painful but if the team really wants to have the best shot at winning a title during the Duncan era, they have to break up the big three and see what kind of young talent they can acquire.
If you look at the Lakers, they traded Shaq when he was still in his prime and several years later they’ve turned that trade into Bynum, Odom and Gasol.
I’m still puzzled as to why the Spurs didn’t make a stronger push for Trevor Ariza this past offseason or even Shannon Brown, for that matter. We need an explosive, athletic player who can give the team an emotional lift. Look at what Shannon has done for the Lakers with Kobe out. J.R. Smith is a similar case with how his play can change a game in the matter of seconds (although he often makes dumb decisions on the court). The FO might be running out of time to make a move…
February 17th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
@Sauce
I agree with you about Blair. He thought he was still playing in the rookie game tonight. He’s a smart player though, he’ll learn from his mistakes.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:55 pm
Hobson seriously.
Kmart is a chucker???
he is one of the most efficient scorers in the league the last 3 years.
How does that mean your a chucker?
His true shooting percentage for his career is absolutely off the charts and up there with the likes of M.J & Co.
Heres a chart for you courtesy of Tom Ziller of scatown royalty fame.
It lists all the people who have averaged 20 PPG or better while maintaining a 60% or better true shooting percentage, an incredibly efficient level of offensive play.
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 11 seasons (1971-72, 1977, 1979-86)
Adrian Dantley: 9 seasons (1977, 1980-82, 1984-88)
Reggie Miller: 6 seasons (1990-93, 1996-97)
Charles Barkley: 7 seasons (1986-92)
Kevin McHale: 5 seasons (1986-90)
Kiki Vandeweghe: 5 seasons (1982-86)
Artis Gilmore: 4 seasons (1972, 1975, 1978-79)
Michael Jordan: 4 seasons (1988-91)
Amare Stoudemire: 4 seasons (2005, 2007-09)
Kevin Martin: 3 seasons (2007-09)
Magic Johnson: 3 seasons (1987, 1989-90)
Bernard King: 3 seasons (1981-82, 1984)
Karl Malone: 3 seasons (1990, 1993, 1997)
Zelmo Beaty: 2 seasons (1971-72)
Larry Bird: 2 seasons (1987-88)
Bill Cartwright: 2 seasons (1980-81)
Brad Daugherty: 2 seasons (1992-93)
Walter Davis: 2 seasons (1979-80)
Dwight Howard: 2 seasons (2008-09)
Kevin Johnson: 2 seasons (1991, 1997)
Sidney Moncrief: 2 seasons (1983, 1986)
Chris Mullin: 2 seasons (1990-91)
Larry Nance: 2 seasons (1986-87)
Dirk Nowitzki: 2 seasons (2001, 2007)
Shaquille O’Neal: 2 seasons (1994, 2003)
David Robinson: 2 seasons (1991, 1995)
Ray Allen: 1 season (2001)
Dana Barros: 1 season (1995)
Rick Barry: 1 season (1969) [Note: Hurt by lack of three-pointers during his era.)
Wilt Chamberlain: 1 season (1967)
Patrick Ewing: 1 season (1989)
George Gervin: 1 season (1977)
Penny Hardaway: 1 season (1996)
Dan Issel: 1 season (1982)
Moses Malone: 1 season (1979)
Yao Ming: 1 season (2007)
Calvin Natt: 1 season (1985)
Drazen Petrovic: 1 season (1993)
Glen Rice: 1 season (1997)
Jeff Ruland: 1 season (1984)
Peja Stojakovic: 1 season (2004)
Orlando Woolridge: 1 season (1985)
James Worthy: 1 season (1986)
—-
Kmart has already done it three times.
Houston need someone like that who can score the ball and who doesn’t have a millstone of a contract.
Daryl Morey and co actually pay attention to this kind of stuff. It’s why without TMAC & Yao Ming and the dropping of Ron Artest they have remained competitive.
They go and get players who traditional stats undervalue.
February 18th, 2010 at 12:00 am
i know it’s just the pacers, and i couldn’t watch the game, but reading the recap and looking at the stats, i feel pretty good about it. it’s the kind of game the spurs used to have: ugly, bad nights from major contributors; clutch executon; and good defense. now, i don’t know if the defense actually passed the eye test, but the pacers shot in the low 40s.
we finally got to see the spurs win in a game when their three-ball wasn’t falling and they didn’t shoot lights out. and, the team gets one more win they had to earn at the end. that’s progress, however little.
that said, i think the west still is the lakers and everybody else.
February 18th, 2010 at 12:11 am
Hobson by the way sorry the tone on that last post was inappropriate.
Didn’t mean to sound like such a sassy ***hole just because i disagree with you.
February 18th, 2010 at 1:16 am
Houston might have signed kmart and his offensive expertise but please be reminded that they also let go of d most underrated defender on that line up which is landry. Houston may encounter difficulties on the defensive side even with battier or ariza on the line up. My mom’s a much better defender than kmart will ever be.
February 18th, 2010 at 1:29 am
Parker scoring 28 shows what could have been this season had he been healthy. He did this while still playing injured but had the ability to get to the rim after nine days off. We’d feel so very different about this team and season if Parker were healthier in the games he’s played. He certainly won’t be able to put up this many points in all remaining games, especially those with very few days off preceding them.
February 18th, 2010 at 1:46 am
Well folks, it seems like there really wasn’t anything out there to make “the tweaks” the spurs supposedly needed in order to make the turnaround for the 2nd half of the season. And coming to think of it, I applaud Pop and management for not making any drastic changes. As we’ve learned throughout the season, building chemistry can certainly be frustrating. With the squad growing as they have, with all the bumps, bruises, and nagging along the way, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this team somehow ends up playing VERY deep into the playoffs—that is, being ahead of those pesty Mavs in the top slot of our division. The players are improving, I think there is really no denying that based upon recent play (the pacers game included: b/c guess what, a win is a win, and maybe they would’ve played better against an even better team—who knows). It’s just really about the team meeting their potential by season’s end—which on paper, the current squad is without a doubt as good as any team in the league.
Not sure this was brought up over here, but there’s also Big Z who’s contract may be bought out by his new employers; tho as big as he is, he is old and fragile now, and not so sure he’s going to be all that effective in clogging the lanes defensively.
And, there’s still the possibility of a last minute trade here, with Ty Thomas being the only one I can see coming over here—as it’s far from being “money in the bank”.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:39 am
@SilverAndBlack
you say you won’t be surprised if we make a very deep playoff run… will you be surprised if we get exposed for the second year in a row in the first round? You say, “on paper, the current squad is without a doubt as good as any team in the league.” LOL!!! Without a doubt?! I have to call you on that… even if you PRETEND that TP is an all-star, even if RJ plays on par with his best seasons, even if Gino and Tim (our 2 best players, by far) overachieve in the playoffs, we are still not on par with the talent LAL or Boston has, even Dallas now has a big 5 of their own, not counting Haywood. Nor Portland’s depth. Utah. Look at Cleveland’s pieces and consider their chemistry, the improved defense of Varejao, and the outright dominance of their go-to guy. Even Memphis and OKC, though they are too young, look as good, as you say, “on paper” as the spurs.
The spurs aren’t even in the conversation talent-wise with the best, even if they miraculously get rock-solid chemistry, health, and over-deliver.
I’m not saying this to be negative, I hope they do over-deliver. Rather, I’m pointing out that we do, in fact, need to rebuild. As for all you guys who claim that the Spurs have the “best FO in the business”, I’d ask you to look at the Lakers, Portland, and even Houston over the last few years! How do the spurs not get Marcus Camby for expirings? I know the Blazers are injured, but they now have 3 of the top 12 centers in the NBA on their rosters, and the Lakers have 2 more!… even more to the point (and this is why I was against the RJ and McD signings this summer as our so-called shot at contention) to win in any era, and especially in this one, you need AT LEAST, (that is at the VERY VERY least) 2 dominant players (unless, you happen to have a healthy LeBron James, I suppose, we’ll see), and a great defense. TP is not a world class PG, he’s good in a scoring role… we need to figure out how to get some other superstar-caliber players (besides TD) on this roster, through the draft, trades, or signings… or at the very least some EXTRAORDINARY defenders and a healthy Manu playing big minutes… the FO has some work to do.
On a side note, I think we’ll be seeing one helluva rebirth in Sacramento; Landry is a great pick up to go with their young long centers, and Tyreke is Hall of Fame material… they are building a team out there. It’ll be interesting to see how their FO does for them (regarding additional superstar talent) in the coming months.
February 18th, 2010 at 5:19 am
WOW…A 3 point victory over Indiana. Pop trots out a starting linep that was a true laugher. Its pathetic. I was hoping to see adjustments after the break, but had doubt that there would be any made..There wasnt.
I havent seen the Spurs this off balance in 10 years. The players have bad body language and are having sero fun playing the game. During a time out, I caught a glimpse of the facial expressions of the players, including the big 3. All had long faces and seemed stressed.
As in any sport, with any team, players must know thier roles. They mmust know when they will play and for how long. They need to know that they can play loosely.
Players cannot be continually worried about making a mistake. Thinking that they will be yanked from the game or scolded on the sidelines in front of thousands of fans, like a pop warner player.
Ive grown tired of jabbing this coach. Plus, it wont do any good. However, as a fan, a true fan…Im concerned about this Pop guy and what he is doing to my Spurs.
I hope that someone that matters, who is in the equasion, becomes concerned as well.
Our big 3 wont say a word, our local media is soft and unwilling to publish any negative coverage on this coach, and even ESPN wont call him out. SCARY!
Hate to say it, but when I saw this coach’s starting line up last night, I knew that the end was here…What a painful disappointment….Most of all, I hate it for Ginnobli, Duncan, and Parker…Our warriors are among the most competitive guys to ever play the game…
I was wrong. I guess it actually is about Popovich.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:46 am
Is there any way possible that we could get Danny Granger? I have no idea about his salary or contract, but damn he has a sweet jumper!
February 18th, 2010 at 6:49 am
This game again shows why TD is the best power forward and one of the best players of all time in the NBA. He couldn’t put the ball in the basket all night, yet he managed to have a +/- of +19 thanks to his 26 rebounds. How many players when they’re having an off night shooting allow it to effect the other facets of their game which ultimately lets their team down? Timmy isn’t one of them. This is his second 20+ rebound game of the year. I think it’s been 2-3 seasons since he grabbed 20+ in a game and this year he already has two! Who says he’s getting old?
February 18th, 2010 at 7:08 am
I don’t know why everyone is so bent out of shape because of the game. Yeah they shot bad, but the main reason for their overall poor shooting performance was TD. If he shoots just under his season average of 51% they would’ve won by about 20 and everyone would be talking differently. Also, how did TD not get to the line once all night?! He didn’t attempt one free throw. Of course with the way he was shooting last night he probably would have missed, but still …
February 18th, 2010 at 7:32 am
That, my friends, was a gutsy win. 35% from the floor and still scoring 90 points with an atrocious shooting night from Tim and the 3 line means we got it down everywhere else. Heck, even Jefferson hit the floor for a loose ball.
Don’t look now, but we’re only a game out of home court advantage. The Mavs looked really good last night, but you’d have to think they’ll have some minor chemistry issues. That along with the 9 game winning streak we are about to put together will get us over the hump.
Let’s dispense with the doom and gloom. Get pumped that we’re in position where all we can do is get better.
February 18th, 2010 at 7:47 am
It is time for Pop to settle into a consistent rotation. The starting lineup yesterday was shocker and it showed in the first quarter when the Pacers were up 20-10. When you start a game like that you are never going to have a good scoring night.
Settle down with the starting lineup and settle down with the bench rotation…it is time the players get a consistent feel for their role in the team.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:13 am
Tanjavur, Your post said it all.
I have played for coaches like this one…I know what they can do to a players state of mind and his level of confidence.
Frustration, uncertainty, embarrassment, and seperatism are not keys to success in team sports. Team looked dead. No motivation, little agression.
All Coaching! Again, it deserves attention.
This coach reminds me of Bob Knight. He is convinced that it is all about him. Hopefully, he will join Knight soon.
Dont hear anybody jumping up and down to hire Knight either.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:38 am
Video on Haislip playing in greece…How Pop let this kid go and kept Bonner is beyond us all. Take a look….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aXqwUXy2cw&feature=player_embedded#
February 18th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Ballhog,
There’s not a professional player that you wouldn’t be able to create a nice highlight reel for the problem generally lies in what happens between the highlight dunks.
I would say that Pop’s reluctance or inability to integrate young athletic players is my biggest complaint with Pop. It seems that if a player can’t fit to a rigid defined role Pop has trouble adjusting and adapting to what that player does best.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Wins are always great but poor shooting shouldn’t come from this team playing the Pacers.
From ESPN reports and what this site has gathered, a trade will not happen. I think the FO has dug in their heels with the amount of money that has been spent so far on this team and Pop doesn’t think a move is necessary.
Unless Pop and the Spurs have been holding back, I’m doubting what this team can accomplish in a very talented Western Conference (11 playoff capable teams, at least).
One of the writers mentioned making trades now for the future of this team and I’m on board with that, as long as the future is next year and not five years.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:22 am
No Trades, I know we all wanted the magic bullet but at this point let’s just pack it in for the rest of the season and get in the lottery and draft John Wall so he can light up the score board and bring his funky dance next season, wait onSplitter, and sign some super free agents, empty the cupboard of insignificant expirings and get at it next season. It’s not worth getting one our good veterans hurt for just the 8th seed and an early departure from the playoffs or worse not even make the playoffs. There’s always next season. Just sayin.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:36 am
I agree Ballhog, Pop did’nt even play Haislip. So why did he bring in an young athletic baller just to let him go? He’s doing the same thing to Ian! They should have spent the first half of the season playing these guys significant min. Maybe they would’nt be scrambling at the last min to get someone in desperation to fix this mess. I think Pop and Buford are loosing their edge. Really screwed up and now they have to face the ownership. I would like to be a fly on the wall when there in conference explaining the season.
Yikes!
February 18th, 2010 at 9:40 am
Bushka, your points are fair enough. I’ve simply never been sold on 20 ppg scorer on a team that won 18 games this year and 17 games last year. This is the NBA. There are a number of guys who can come in and give you this production if they were THE MAN on a really bad team. In fact, the Spurs have a guy who did it last year and we now see his true colors. In all fairness, his FG% for the past few years is good, but this year is less than 40%. Perhaps that is due to injury. I do know that Houston gave up THE expiring contract of the year and gave up the Rockets version of Dejuan Blair for this kid. That to me is a steep price. Martins contract is definitely reasonable and the Rockets certainly need the scoring punch so maybe this deal pans out for both teams. However, I don’t think this makes the Rockets a great deal better than 7 or 8 seed.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:42 am
now i realized that we need to stand pat and believe that our current team spurs is a legitimate contender .and nw i also realized that we really dont need a trade right now,we should not be desperate.what the spurs need is to have chemistry and stay healthy.our core is deep as bench too.RJ step up before its too late.i beleive in you i know your a solid player .just find where you fits in.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Yeah fellas, it looks like were done for the year. There was really no good trade deal out there for this team. Heavy contracts and unmarketable players dont make trade material.
Besides even if we made a trade, the new player probably wouldnt play under this coach.
I just read that the Rockets are trying to get Splitter. Apparently Splitter is buds with Scola and the two have been talking this up a bit. If Splitter has the option to come into the league next year, play in Houston, get significant minutes and minimal bullying from his coach, and get paid? He’s gone too.
Why would he come to San Antonio, play for this coach, and for less money when he can play for Adelman and team up with the roster that they are building; not to mention the addition of a healthy Yao Ming.
Fellow fans, things arent what they should be inside this organiation. Hopefully (for the sake of our proud warriors) the Spurs play well for the rest of the season and stay as healthy as possible. There is always next season, though our Big 3 wont suddenly stop having birthdays.
After witnessing Popovich’s starting line-up in Indiana las night and reading that his intentions are to keep this line up in place,
Seems our fate has been sealed..
February 18th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Ballhog - with all due respect, from a fellow diehard Spurs fan to another, I think you’re way off base.
Does Pop deserve criticism? Sure, as does everyone in the organization. But blanket statements about how he’s a bully, that no one in the league wants to play for him, and that he has single-handedly submarined the Spurs’ season have close to no basis in fact.
It’s one thing to voice you opinion (and I’m all for it - that’s what this website is for). However, it’s another thing to back that opinion up with actual facts, and not just your own assumptions.
Cheers.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:15 am
What’s with all the negativity?
SO they didn’t make a trade big deal. Yeah like they were really gonna trade TP or Manu. ANd boo hoo no Tyrus Thomas.
You play to win the game. And last night they won the game. Its not like they are the ninth seed and two games away from the eigth spot.
All this team cares about is the playoffs. Sure it would be nice to be the second seed, but POP has never cared about seeding.
Besides the Spurs are probably the one team where Home court has really no advantage. They have the tamest home crowd prob in all of basketball.
February 18th, 2010 at 11:01 am
Ballhog,
The Spurs have Splitters’ rights. So, I don’t understand your argument about him playing for the Rockets. The Spurs would have to trade Splitters’ rights to Houston like they did with Scola and I seriously doubt we will see that happen again.
February 18th, 2010 at 11:09 am
@ Tyler,
It’s a post…Not a declaration.
I call it like I see it…It is my opinion and it has not changed.
Why spend 3 yeasrs developing a player, sign the player, and then hide him from the public all year long?
He did it with Haislip, Mahinmi, Hairston, and Mensa Bonsu.
With two young players like Marcus Williams and Malik Harriston on your roster, why bring back Mike Finley (no disrespect to Finley) and go out and sign Bogans? The youngsters were more athletic and cheaper.
I can only image what this team would look like now if those young guys, including Mahinmi and Haislip, had been given 10-12 minutes per game for the whole season.
These young players could have solidified our rotations for the next 5 years.
I mean, wouldnt it have been more productive to put Bonner, Finley, and Bogans in street clothes behind the bench instead?
Pop would have been able to dress those guys and use them on an as needed basis.
Besides Tyler,
If my posts rubs you the wrong way, dont read em…
I wouldnt!
February 18th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Something that just clicked in my head -
If we do not make a trade, we will let 4 free agents walk over the summer (minus Manu). The front office may be saving this money to resign him around $6M.This would give a solid rotation at the 2/3.
If we had decided to grab T. Thomas, then we wouldn’t have the funds available to resign Manu.
Just a thought. Any ideas?
February 18th, 2010 at 11:53 am
at this point I don’t think it’s a lock that Manu will choose tho resign with the spurs, there are so many motivations not to… playing time, title contention + fun team to play with, money, home city. After the dust settles and LBJ, Wade, and Bosh have teams, maybe Manu goes and joins a D Wade on a deep team and chases a title.
Spurs fans are in for a lot of transition over the coming seasons, and I’ve started to resign myself that eventually we will acquire early draft picks that hopefully will yield exciting, inspiring franchise players.
February 18th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
As far as the Spurs’ youngsters go, Haislip, Marcus Williams, and Mensa Bonsu have yet to catch on to any team in the NBA, not just the Spurs. I think there’s a reason for that. The fact that Ian has been in the system for 3 years, has yet to play meaningful minutes, and didn’t get his team option picked up tells me there’s something there that the coaching staff/front office doesn’t like. In the words of Bill Parcell’s, “Potential is nothing” (or something like that).
As much as I want these guys to succeed, the fact that they don’t pan out doesn’t always mean it’s the coaching staff’s fault - most of the time the fault lies with the player. Also, the fact that 2nd round picks and D-league talent don’t pan out isn’t out of the ordinary - it’s the norm. Again, there’s a reason why most of these guys don’t ever catch on to an NBA team.
One last thought - Ballhog, your post didn’t rub me the wrong way (it takes much more than a simple post to get me going), I just simply disagree with your opinion. That’s it, no more no less. I read lots of posts that I disagree with, your’s is no different.
February 18th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
PJ Carlesimo must really want his job back. When he said Pop’s starting line-up was for defensive purposes, I almost choked. And five minutes in the big lie was exposed. But now Pop says that will be his starting five for awhile. Please.
Blair was trying too hard to prove himself vis a vis Hibbert. The opposite of “letting the game come to him.” He’ll learn.
I think the league has changed. Athletic bigs are rapidly becoming the norm. They are becoming increasingly talented beyond just their athletic ability. Not sure that Pop knows how to mentor them and use them. Old ways die slowly.
February 18th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Tyler, The air has been cleared.
Tell you what…Lets do this…
If the Spurs decide to trade or release Bonner and Bogans, and they go to another NBA team and start, and log over 20 minutes a game, and get PT over better players,
I will bow down to your infinite wisdom for life.
Besides, Not only is this coach starting the high profile, super dominant, Matt Bonner and the super talented shut down defender, Keith Bogans, he is killing the morale of the team in the process. Its like having your masters and being passed over for someone with a GED…Just ask Hairston and Mahinmi…
Where else in the entire NBA would these guys start and log heavy minutes?
With this coach, its never been about who could actually play the game at a high level.
Its about who can play for him!
February 18th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Pops not the problem.
Injuries, age, and Richard Jefferson loosing his lucky socks or something.
February 18th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
spurs trade ratliff… For nothing
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64857/20100218/spurs_trade_ratliff_to_charlotte/#%23ixzz0fvLOr8JC
atleast it saves us money…maybe a second round pick would be nice
February 18th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
“With this coach, its never been about who could actually play the game at a high level.”
That assertion is laughable….
February 18th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Yeah, I saw that…The latest taste of brilliance in personnel moves…Send Ratliff to Bobcats for squat…Im sure Ratliff is dancing in the streets. At least he will be an actual part of a team.
Besides, he got paid to come to practice.
We just got even smaller…Been a long time since our team looked this way.
As a true fan, It really sucks….
But, Im done talking about this coach. He wont need any help leaving town…He will do it himself.
However, If I am Duncan, Parker, andGinnobli, and I still have the burning desire to win championships,
Im calling this guy out now….
One thing is for sure…If we keep this coach we wont keep these players…
These three guys would be more than welcomed on every team in the NBA…
The players themselves know it, thier agents know it, Peter Holt knows it, and somebody better let the coach know it, since he has obviously forgotten.
That my friends, is great leverage to have!
February 18th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
@Ballhog and all the other negative humans constantly sooking about Bonner Bogans et al.
Read this thoroughly and please pay attention you might just learn something.
When putting forward a point of view you should generally have an opinion based on facts. It helps because when people say NO NO YOUR WRONG you can say “AHAH!” i have here something we call “evidence” and you are about to look the fool. Then you can use that evidence to substantiate your argument.
“Evidence” can often be found in the form of statistics, these are surprisingly, readily available on the “internet”.
You asked.
“Where else in the entire NBA would these guys start and log heavy minutes?”
By heavy minutes I take it you mean the WHOPPING 17 per game that Bonner is currently ambling along at.
Here for your viewing pleasure is a list of the guys just above and below big Matt Bonner in terms of minutes per game in the NBA.
Ryan Hollins (minnesota) 17:43 ALL STAR!
Nick Young (washington) 17:37 can walk upright
Mikki Moore(Golden State) 17:36 Crab Claws
Tyler Hansbrough (Indiana)17:35 omg! Rookie!!!
Goran Dragic (Phoenix)17:19 Good backup
Darrell Arthur (memphis) 17:19 Who?
Nazr Mohammed (Charlotte) 17:13 Old..old old
Robin Lopez (Phoenix) 17:09 2nd..year pro…
Bobby Simmons (New Jersey)17:07 Bad Contract
Amir Johnson (Toronto)17:05 6′2 Power forward
MATT FRIKKIN BONNER 17:03 ***Apparently the guy that Broke the spurs franchise***
Eddie House(boston)16:57 Role Playing 3pt shooter!
Kris Humphries (New Jersey)16:51 Average player
Chucky Atkins(detroit)16:49 Fought in WWII
Sonny Weems(Toronto)16:48 Slam dunk assistant
Glen Davis(Boston)16:44 Boston hates him
Garrett Temple(Houston)16:40 Everyone else died
Carlos Arroyo(Miami)16:28 Backup PG
Sam Young(Memphis)16:19 Rookie
Serge Ibaka(Oklahoma)16:19 UGH
Coby Karl(golden state)16:17 Everyone got injured
Craig Smith(L.A.Clippers) 16:16 Much improved
Marreese Speights (Philly)16:15 Injured prospect
Jamaal Tinsley(Memphis)16:03 Indiana paid him to go away
Morris Peterson(New Orleans)16:00 Terrible
So where are the spurs missing out here?
Exactly what are you expecting from 17 minutes per?
See many all stars in there?
Just how influential do you think a 17 minutes per game player is?
17 minutes per is a role player. Check through that list and ..wait…it looks like it’s filled with role players, guys who come in and hit threes, play D, Rebound or block shots…
Either that or they are first or second year players learning the NBA game. Like you guys constantly whining about the guy on the team averaging the 10th most minutes should.
For the love of pants would you stop whining about role players like they are the bloody problem and understand that your 10th option is just that…your 10th option.
For the minutes he gets Matt Bonner is great value.
He has skills that suit the team. He is used situationally, and he performs above and beyond expectations in all the available metrics.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
i heard “yawn” has somewhat character issues. he has a lot of potential, but he’s not really a hard-worker. there was an interview that i heard about from project spurs about how he was complaining about having to do certain things cuz timmy didn’t have to do it. i have to find that link….found it: http://projectspurs.com/podcasts/episodes/spurscast-190-midseason-review.html
maybe this is real reason y he’s not getting playing time cuz they’re not planning on keeping him anyways? nonetheless, i wish they would’ve traded him for future picks anyways, instead of letting him walk in the summer. relieve some cap space too!
wut do u guys think?
February 18th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
@Bushka,
Normally I would have a well thought out comeback for something like that. But, because that well thought out post had to take time to put together, I just couldnt do it.
You have to be passionate about the sport and the Spurs to put in that type effort. I say Bravo…Another true Spurs fan..
Understand though, I still disagree.
It isnt about Bonner or Bogans directly. Its about the failure of this staff and FO to put the necessary pieces in place to support the big 3.
This team won 4 titles because they put those pieces in place extremely well during that time. Pop did a HOF job coaching them as well.
But when we are talking about the PRESENT state that the Spurs are in, we must keep it real.
Praise, Praise, and more Praise is what we hear in the local media in reference to the Spurs. Any show, any tweet, any comment; Its all praise. Even when we come out flat and play poorly.
When a team that has a fan base that is accustomed to winning and that fanbase is suddenly supporting a struggling team, there should be media and fan generated srcutiny.
It happens with the Lakers, Celtics, Cavs, Nuggets, even Miami…
Sooner or later the truth about what is really going on with this team will come out…As of now, only the fly on the wall truly knows.
But, Hey….like you said….Im probably way off….
Great dialogue…
February 18th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
@ AMYfromLA
I heard that too…That he was lazy and had to be force fed his work ethic. Even if that is true, it still leaves me wondering why they even brought him back this year. Seems to be just another wasted roster spot.
Besides, it would be in his best interest to get out of town. He had a stronger market before the season started…That marketability decreases with each DNP.
Sad thing…Would have liked to see him given an opportunity to play. From the little Ive seen of him, looks like Ian’s got some game.
Guess thats the business…
February 18th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
ballhog seriously i got halfway through it and thought this is ridiculous.
I had to physically cul the stats out that i cut and pasted over from the yahoo webpage.
Ridiculous effort on behalf of matt bonner.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:36 am
Bushka-
How many hours have you spent defending Bonner on this site? I have to say, I respect your points. And, like BALLHOG (and, I think, some of other critics on this site), I’m not saying that it’s not that Bonner (or many of the other players getting minutes here and there) isn’t a guy who provides some value… it’s not that Bonner is ruining the Spurs (Tony (even if healthy) given their roles and shortcomings, are much greater liabilities in, and of, themselves)… Rather, it’s the fact that as our “big 4″ cannot legitimately be called a Big 4, so in addition to/ in lieu of upgrading some of those pieces, we need to upgrade our power positions.
Given his contract, our needs, and the fact that championship teams are built of defense and power play (Consider that even Diop or Dampier was an upgrade over the shot-blocking shooter LaFrentz. How much better would Orlando have been with a more versatile spacer such as Hedo, Brad Miller, Troy Hudson, Jamison or better yet, someone like Okafor, Horford, Scola, or Amar’e, even a Z-Bo, instead of the marksman Rashard Lewis? Even more to the point, what if Toronto had been wise enough to support Chris Bosh with a Jeff Foster, Horford, Perkins, Camby, Noah, Pryzbilla, Biedrins, Paul Milsap, Haslem, even a David Lee instead of Villanueva/Bargnani?), all we are saying is that the Bonner experiment just isn’t the way to go… if he’s on the roster to use as insurance, or situationally, there should be a lot more DNPs next his next to his name..
At this point, even in garbage time, give more of his minutes to someone else: the Bonner experiment needs to end. If he’s averaging 17 minutes for the spurs, he should be averaging 4 - 7. Not that he’s not a great guy or can’t play, and I hope he has a long career on a team that is a either a bonafide contender or somewhere like crazy Golden State. We have too much at stake, however given TD’s window, not to try to find or develop some legitimate big men. Though, now that the deadline has passed, it’s largely moot, but the worst case scenario was we try to put together a 3-headed monster routine with guys like Kurt Thomas, McD, and Blair (that is, if a Camby or a someone with real promise just absolutely couldn’t be had — but Camby WAS grabbed for expirings!) Looking forward, we critics want to give projects more tick to grow and improve their NBA game as we once did with Matt Bonner — except that Blair has more upside and the Spurs are farther from contention, so Blair deserves more developmental attention than MB got (and, yes, earned) during his time with the Spurs.
I get that Ian must be a bust, and that the last contract we gave him was our final optimistic investment in him. I get that Bonner must just be a far better player (in large part, no doubt, because of his excellent work ethic and coachability) than Ian, and if this is true why didn’t we trade Ian? Would Ian be serviceable if we had a true point guard? Find out if he’s the answer, or cut bait. With Bonner, it’s time to cut bait. If we were contenders, maybe he’d have a place here, but the fact is we need to upgrade. Thus, our frustration is with Pop and R.C., not really with Bonner in and of himself.
If you’ve read my posts, you know I’m not saying to fire Pop, just that it is obvious what isn’t working.
Bushka, I’ve read many of your posts regarding Bonner, I get what you are saying.
Do you get what I’m (and I’m not the only one) saying?
February 19th, 2010 at 12:50 am
typo in the first paragraph: should read “Tony (even if healthy) AND RJ, given their roles and shortcomings…”
and in the second paragraph, I’m assuming you recognize that a soft big man, even as dominant as Dirk, is still too easy to overcome. Which is why Dallas has forever wished he was more of a center, and only Crazy Nelly would pair him with another spacer like LaFrentz, but is also why going small with Marion at the 4 is a bad idea, no matter how talented those guys are, no matter how (supposedly) clever the Mavs (or Raptors, or Magic, or current Spurs) “system” is.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:25 am
* Not to mention that Rasheed Wallace and Josh Smith are much better when not taking 3’s… sure they aren’t the bombers that Rashard Lewis, Bonner, LaFrentz, etc are/were, but the fact is you’d rather have (pick at least one): a challenging inside game, a banger in the post, a great screener, great rebounding, and formidable help and/or physical defense, than whatever you gain in by trying to bait an opposing big man out to the 3 point line.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:25 am
I see value in holding onto Bonner and using him when he suits. I think thats one of the reasons pop is such a good coach & judge of personell.
The real issue is that RJ should have been a big, and a big that can intimidate & shoot, then we could have picked up a mid level guy of a similar standard or better like McDyess for a wing.
Of course at the time it all made sens and i was right behind the front office.
I am still firmly in the camp that thinks this season can be a success. If we make it out of the first round, develop Dejaun & George further and have a solid platform for Splitter (assuming of course he wants to come over) we then have RJ’s expiring 14 million contract to run with.
If ….big if. We resign Manu, we can use that expiring to bring in whatever it is at the time that we need.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:27 am
Something else to bear in mind. People like Bonner & Bogans etc play the way that pop wants them to.
If he is not setting picks its because he’s being told to.
February 19th, 2010 at 7:21 am
I agree - Going back a few articles, Bonner was in two of our top 5-man offensive rotations (you would need the point differential for the whole story obviously). But the point remains - Bonner has some legitimate value as a stretch 4 in certain situations.
Also, before Bonner broke his hand, he was playing the best ball of his life, and the Spurs were just starting to thrive. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that with his injury, the Spurs started to slump. I think it really threw a wrench in the rotation, and forced guys into positions/lineups they weren’t used to or comfortable with.
If Bonner starts to play like he was early in the season, I think you’re going to see a much improved Spurs team.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Yeah TD4life i get what your saying
February 19th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Cheers, Bushka- I have so many typos, it takes something to get what I’m saying. As for MB, I think if he’d spent his whole career being properly used in Cleveland, his value would be widely recognized. On our team, if we can’t upgrade the minutes we’re getting from him next year, our prospects for playoff success are looking dim… sorry to be pessimistic, wish I could root for our guys with unconditional enthusiasm, instead of with a sinking feeling in my chest.
Now, let’s see them go out there and beat some winning teams, and play with passion, smarts, and effort!! To bad we don’t have 2 Ginobilis and 2 Duncans!
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