Sunday, March 14th, 2010...10:28 am
Clippers 88, Spurs 118
Not exactly known for being fleet of foot, Matt Bonner pulled his best David Robinson impression, helping to force Craig Smith into a missed layup and then beating the Clippers in transition for an “acrobatic” reverse layup.
With the score still a reasonable 20-14 before the basket, and still in the first quarter, that sequence is all you need to know about the effort level of a Clippers team that rolled over at the first sign of adversity. Or, as head coach Kim Hughes put it:
“I think we had four players on our defensive side competing tonight and that’s not enough,” Hughes said. “I thought most of our guys didn’t compete.
“I don’t intend to let this team quit and if that’s the case minutes will have to be adjusted and those players will find themselves next to me.”
For most of the night, Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili found themselves on the bench next to their own head coach, albeit under much better circumstances. Ginobili totaled 14 points and six assists in 18 minutes. In 13 minutes Duncan managed eight points and one unfortunate turnover that had George Hill (14 points, 11 assists) jokingly banning Duncan from further joining in on the Spurs recent alley-oop ways.
“On back-to-backs if I can give those guys rest it’s very important and tonight worked out well,” Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said.
Outside of rest, there were a few continuing trends from last night’s game that merit keeping an eye on as the level of competition escalates. Since rejoining Manu Ginobili in the starting lineup, Richard Jefferson has looked like the player the Spurs expected, finishing with 18 points and nine rebounds.
It’s become apparent that Jefferson is a much better fit in the Spurs new Ginobili-oriented offense, thriving off the free movement and passing that was not as available when the Spurs ran so much of their offense through Duncan earlier this season. In short, wherever Ginobili goes, Jefferson needs to follow.
Another development has been Malik Hairston cracking his way into the rotation as the first guard off the bench instead of Roger Mason. Hairston has shown he can get to the rim and finish, though it will be interesting to see if he can hit jumpers consistently against better defenses that will cut off his driving lanes.
For now he offers the Spurs an energetic defender, as visible by some of the work he did last night on Travis Outlaw.
“ Malik does a good job defensively,” Popovich said. “It’s probably the best thing he does and he takes great pride in it.”
Finally, there is the continued improvement of Matt Bonner who scored 21 points on nine shots, missing only one three-pointer. And if the David Robinson impression wasn’t enough, he showed he can also pull off a decent Kobe Bryant too, hitting a shot from behind the backboard over two defenders.
Asked if he ever practices that shot, Bonner came clean.
“Only when I play horse,” he said. “This is like the one chance of my career to make the top ten plays.”
Or at least until he plays the Clippers again.
83 Comments
March 14th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Great win over a team that we own. Glad to see our starters getting some rest before the back to back to back games. Malik proving that letting finley go was a great move. Blessing in disguise with tonys injury. Seems like our backups are getting more confidence. Cedric Jackson seems to be helping out contrary to pops believe no one can help us out.
March 14th, 2010 at 11:12 am
I know it’s the Clippers but I have two comments, Hairston is looking better than I thought he was capable of and Bonner, he’s baaaack
March 14th, 2010 at 11:50 am
Bonner is a shooter. Shooters need confidence. Sometimes beating up on creampuffs is a great way to build that confidence. Very disappointing that Mason couldn’t get something going in the last two games (not that he played badly). I think Mason just missed his last opportunity to contribute to this squad, while Bonner cemented his place in the rotation through our playoff run.
March 14th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
I know it’s the Clippers, but it’s great to see RJ take 14 shots and grab 9 boards (2 offensive). Hopefully a sign of things to come. Looking forward to this gauntlet of games against top quality teams.
March 14th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
@OneWing, I’ll agree with just about everything you said, but won’t be quite as easy on Mason. That guy is a joke and I’m glad he’s finding his way out of the rotation, hopefull this will transition into DNP-CD’s unless he gets garbage time in a blowout. Manu, Bonner and Hill provide enough perimeter shooting and I’d much rather see Cedrick Jackson in whatever backup PG minutes are availabe over Mason as well!
March 14th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
I Know beating the TWOLVES and CLIPS isn’t anything to rave about but at least they are blowing those teams out. If they struggled then I’d really be worried.
Keep it going Red ROCKET.
The best part is TD and MANU practically sat out the whole game.
I think the bench is looking good. Usually when teams empty out the bench there is a lot of sloppy play. But for the most part the bench played with some flow.
Let’s do this. The 4th seed is still possible.
March 14th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
I love Bonner.
I love how he’s called Red Rocket.
I love how he defended Randolph a few games back.
I love how he actually tries.
I love how he has a reasonable contract.
And I particularly love how he will lead us to the Championship this year. He’s going to get Finals MVP, you watch.
March 14th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
RMJ’s struggles just help Cedric Jackson more and more. Spurs still need another guard outside Hill/Manu.
Hopefully they give Garrett Temple some run, since he’s a defense first guy with great athleticism and wingspan. And he can handle the ball/good passer.
RJ’s struggles only occurred when he was pulled away from playing with Manu. That happened once Manu moved to the starting lineup. It looks like the changeover helped.
When Parker comes back, I can see Pop moving both back possibly and moving maybe Hairston forward if he gains that trust. He’s definitely making the most of his minutes.
March 14th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
@ Mr. Anonymous
if he gets Finals MVP, I dye my hair redhead for the rest of this life.
March 14th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
I’d do the same, Gary. And instead of buying a Blair jersey this summer, i’d buy a Bonner one.
Well…maybe both. But i’d definitely have to buy something Bonnerish. Maybe I’d just mail him a sandwich.
March 14th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Pop is doing what I posted in this forum in the offseason. Play 10 players at least 12 minutes every game. Of course, it took injury and back-to-backs for Pop to wake up.
I posted earlier the reasons to play 10 players, 12 minutes every game. 1) save minutes on veterans for playoffs, 2) get new players acclimated faster and know how they fit in, 3) get the team giving all out effort for 4 to 6 minutes stretches without saving energy during the game (notice the 28 fastbreak pts and 8 dunks per game avg in the last 2 games).
Way to follow my advice Pop! Got some blowout wins against inferior teams because of it. Keep it up.
March 14th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
junierizzle: Great point! You would expect with THAT kind of bench-clearing rotation last night, an NBA-team would at least put up the fire to make a few of the bench-warmers look bad. But the guys came off the bench and looked like NBA-rotation guys all night. Unfortunately, I only got to watch this game in bits and pieces while out with friends. At no point did I see plays that made me say “Well, he has the back of the bench in there, that’s gonna happen.” I just kept seeing a decent group of basketball players on the court for our guys.
March 14th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
yeah but parker is not the same 2-3years ago, bad thing about parker is his defence. its sucks very much, thats why hill and bogans should be in the line up together with parker to help on D. parker and dick JUST CANT PLAY TOGETHER PERIOD. when parker plays other players wont get into rhythm. if you guys want parker, we live or die on parkers play. if parker scores 30+ points we have chance of winning, opponents lock down a step slower parker, spurs are in deep shit. SO
i would stick with HIll and Gino who plays BETTER DEFENSE, SHARES THE BALL BETTER AND EVERYBODY GETS INTO RHYTHM AND CAN SHOOT THE 3! PARKER ON THE OTHER HAND SCORES BUT SUCKS ON D, SHOOT FIRST POINT GUARD WHO RARELY SHARES THE BALL AND CAN’T SHOOT 3s!(hill is better 3 points shooter better defender compared to parker)
pg - Hill
Sg- Gino
Sf- Dick
PF- Duncan
C- Dice
bring Parkers ass off the bench
bench
pg- parker
sg- mase
sf- malik/bogans
pf- blair
c- bonner/mahinmi
stick with this starting line up of hill, gino, dick, dice and dunc. i believe in a 5th trophy. with parker in the starting line up, 1st round exit baby!
March 14th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Spurs have yet another opportunity to turn the corner this season and make some noise. We have won 6 of our last 7 and are starting to play better basketball. RJ (with all his faults) has started to come around and play two of his best games in months (they were back to back games which is encouraging to me). Manu seems to have regained much of his old form and the role players (Hill, Bonner, and Blair, not Mason) are playing pretty well. The big game this week is against the Magic. If we win against them at their place, then I’ll start to buy into our new-found success.
I agree with previous posts stating that a 6-7 seed would be better than a 4th seed. The obvious logic is that the longer we can delay the Lakers, the better off we will be. If this team is playing it’s peak basketball, I think we have a chance against the Denvers, Utahs, and Dallas’ of the league. If we lose to the big dogs over the last 18 games of the season, it doesn’t make any difference what seed we land. It will be a one-and-done post season anyway around it.
I won’t hit this point too hard since most are still smitten with Tony Parker, but you can evidently see that the team functions quite well without him and we weren’t beating the great teams WITH him. In the meantime, Hill really seems to be growing, Manu is certainly as invovled as ever, and RJ’s role is picking up. I really wonder what Tony’s future holds since he is an expiring contract next year, still a good player, but is insistent upon destroying his body by playing ball year around. The organization has some big decisions to make in the next 6 months and Parker may be at the heart of the Front Office’s discussions.
March 14th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
We beat the Clippers and T’wolves w/o TP and some ppl are now convinced that we don’t need him? We lost to the Cavs playing w/o LBJ and got smoked at Houston!
March 14th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Hobson & Co,
It’s not really that hard to talk down tony’s production this year. He has not had 5 minutes without injury. I do find it hard to swallow when ignorant opinion states that he basically sucks and everyone else is worse off when he is on the basketball court.
Shoot first point guard nonsense is such positional fundamentalism. It’s like George is the second coming off Magic Johnson, when in fact George is way more of a shooter and grafter.
It’s this weird idea that George replaces Tony. Two very different players, with very different styles and abilities.
For all the chatter about Tony playing poor defence, within the actual schematic of the spurs D, he plays well. He gives good effort and fundamentally applies himself but his physical tools are not there for dealing with big guards.
That said George is not there yet either. He has been abused a few times this year particularly by Chauncey Billups. He is oozing potential and Time is certainly on his side since it usually takes a few years for a truly great defender to blossom in the NBA. Theres so much more to learn regarding NBA D, than there is NBA offence.
That instinctual decision making on D is something that seems to come with age, and George has the right work ethic and physical tools to really shine there in the future.
March 14th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Hobson not calling you out was more the CAPS LOCK bonanza earlier on in the thread.
March 14th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Tony Parker fans,
I never said Hill is better or even equal to Parker. At this point in Hill’s career, he is not as good as Parker and is only a long shot to achieve what Tony has done. Over the course of this season, Hill has averaged 12pts and 3 assists per game (his numbers would be higher if he started) while making $1.1 million dollars. Tony (granted while injured, but playing more minutes than Hill) has averaged 16 pts and 6 assists while being paid $12.6 million. Tony makes almost 12 times as much and if you compare their production on a PER DOLLAR basis, it is easy to see who is more efficient/cost effective.
The problem I have found with everyones argument against trading Parker is that no one takes into account what we could get via trade for Tony. The typical argument against this move typically begins with “The spurs wouldn’t be better off without Parker.” Of course the Spurs would be worse off if we gave him away and got nothing in return, but that’s not a reality. There’s no reason to think that a blockbuster trade couldn’t be made with Parker being the centerpiece. We won’t win a championship as currently constructed so let’s look to the future. Next year could very possibly be Parker’s last year as a Spur. Just like Manu this summer, Parker could walk for nothing in return. (I would argue that Parker is MUCH more likely to leave than Manu, but that is another topic)
With Tony’s game so predicated on his speed, this is a concern. He will be 29 by the end of next year and have a ton of wear for a 29 year old player, not to mention the fact that a pg’s speed generally declines once they reach 30. The idea of trading Tony is not such a radical idea that it should be lightly dismissed as lunacy.
March 14th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
If you just want to look at statistics as a measure of a production, Ginobili averages 14pts, 5assts and makes $10mil. So I guess comparing production on a per dollar basis George Hill kicks Ginobili’s ass! So maybe the Spurs should let him walk? After all we have George Hill who is younger and more productive!
March 14th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Go SPURS…………. i cant wait for tuesdays game againts miami……. goodluck george, manu, malik , blair & cedric………
March 14th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
11 assist for george hill…….. that’s his career high….. & against wolves he has 8……… 9.5 in two consecutive games…. woow……. future allstar…….
March 14th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
No trade of Tony Parker…Too Good in too many ways. Besides, the stuff TP has cannot be taught.
Ginnobli-glad to see the return of his game. Completely unorthodox and totally unpredictable. A nightmare to defend for anyone.
Cant trade him either. Same reasoning as Tony Parker, but there is an added dimension with Ginnobli. He is the fan favorite. He is the main guy that puts butss in the seats…Moving on..
Richard Jefferson-Lots of complaints lately about Richard’s play, and deservingly so. However, Richard apparently demanded his gonads back from Pop and his game wasnt far behind. Welcome back Richard.
May main man Malik Hariston-So glad that this kid is finally getting the opportunity to show his game to the league and the fans. He is a baller and will make this team better. What took so long?
Jackson- This kid comes in to San Antonio and two days later, he is in the rotation and contributing. Blew me away. Ive been told and constantly reminded of the complexity of Pop’s highly detailed system. Well, apparently Jackson is a genious. Welcome to the family Einstein…
Mahinmi-Again, should have been playing all year. Can actually help this team in the middle with limited minutes. We knew this all along.
Finally,
George Hill-Make no mistake. George Hill is NBA starter material right now. He is playing well, cool under pressure, super athletic, and as smart as they come. He and Portland’s Demarcus Aldridge are the most improved players of the year, by far.
During the Clipper game, the team had a new and refreshing look to it. It looked like a family for the very first time. An entire group that felt like part of the plan. Once a team gets everybody involved and allows them to contribute, anything can happen.
Hope it lasts…..
March 14th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
the only reason hill is so cheap is becausw he is still on his rookie contract. I could see him in a 4 yr 16 mil contract after next yr. Parker should cut his ego and come off the bench until he is back to all star form.
March 14th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
Hobson honestly I meant it when i said it wasn’t directed at you.
Regarding a trade of Frenchy, as mentioned in some thread 80 pages back, the issue truly this year with any trade was that it was only contenders willing to take on future salary, and he couldn’t help a contender because he was getting up and down the court on crutchs.
It’s so difficult to trade an injured player unless he is a massive fat expiring (hello Raef La Frentz).
I love George, I love Tony, and I believe that we need them both.
George/Manu/Healthy Tony is an exceptional 3 guard rotation with someone like Malik Hairston/Roger mason jr sliding in and out of a couple of positions and taking up the last 10 or 12 minutes available.
It’s the frontline that’ll be the death of us in the next two years anyway.
March 14th, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Just stop with the RJ stuff…
I wanna see this guy perform in the clutch or hit a big shot down the stretch in a playoff game..
That WILL NOT happen…
The guy is softer then napkins….
This team will go as far as TD/TP will carry them once again….
March 14th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
Bushka,
No hard feelings. I knew your comments were meant for the illogical rant from a previous poster. I agree that the future of the front court doesn’t look too great. Even this year I think we are dangerously thin. McDyess is ok, Blair will be good, but for now is only a rookie, and Matt Bonner is Matt Bonner. Splitter would be a great pickup, but his situation is far from certain. My whole assumption behind the proposed Tony trade is that we can’t get free agents in SA very easily, we have no cap space, and it appears that we have very few young players that are in the pipelines. We are a team in decline. Perhaps by trading RJ or even Tony, we can address a number of needs, but if the FO looked into trading Duncan (as a previous article stated) then they will definitely look at trading Parker. Again, perhaps we retain Parker and trade RJ, but going into next year with the same lineup minus a few role players is suicide. As the saying goes, you can’t do the exact same thing and expect different results. A move has to be made.
March 15th, 2010 at 1:49 am
“This is like the one chance of my career to make the top ten plays.”
Bonner is underestimating his chances: that penetration which ended with the two handed dunk against Toronto (October or November) could have made the top ten, too!
N
March 15th, 2010 at 5:39 am
Couldnt leave without commenting on The Red Rocket, AKA “The Red Improvement”.
Bonner finally decided to come out and contribute. He decided that he can be more than a one trick pony (first flash of this since he put on the silver and black). He even put effort in on the defensive end of the floor. He banged a litle bit and even drove the ball to the rack a few times…
Advice to Matt…Never let any coach convince you that you can only do one thing well. It is a career killer. Just come out to play basketball every night and do whatever it takes to contribute.
Due to your improved effort, I have removed you from my all time “super sucks list”, leaving Bogans on that list all alone.
As for needed front court help…..Of course we need it. Every decent front court player that has landed here in San Antonio, has been run out of town. I knew it was suicide, but all of the Pop praisers were convinced that he was right. Well, he wasnt.
This team can go out and bring in players. Players that can contribute right now and during the offseason. But wil this coach and FO allow it? Or, will they draft 3 more forein players that might or might not stop in San Antonio?
Our nucleous is older, but still effective. Trading them is dangerous business and could easily lead to a 10 year rebuild.
Lets stop making excuses for this Coach and FO…Thier miscues and horrible personnel decisions have hurt this team. Anyone that denies that point is simply in denial.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:15 am
tony parker sucks!
March 15th, 2010 at 6:18 am
Hobson13/Bushka -
If we are truly in “rebuliding” mode, I think you have to look at all options, including trading pieces of your core, i.e. Parker. It might not be popular, but at the end of the day, if we get an offer we can’t refuse, you have to do what is best for the future of the organization. By the same token, if someone offers Manu 4 years, $36M, I think you have to let him walk. I’d hate to see him go, but you can’t cripple your cap for a guy past his prime.
We’ll see how it plays out. To be honest, our team this time next year might look radically different. If we get off to another slow start next year, I think you’ll see RC make several moves in the hopes of shedding salary and getting younger. It might even come sooner than that (this summer).
But you can definitely count on one thing - our salary cap situation right now is not the norm for us. The Spurs organization doesn’t have the earnings power of LA or NY - we can’t sustain this level of spending. Eventually, we’ll have to revert to the mean and get back under the luxury tax line.
March 15th, 2010 at 7:29 am
@Ballhog, yes it’s criminal the way Pop ran frontcourt players like Robinson and Duncan out of town. Had he checked his ego at the door and kept them around this franchise might not have sucked so much the last decade.
And you couldn’t be more right about drafting foreign players. They clearly should have drafted George Hill and DeJuan Blair instead of those furriners. What were they thinking?
March 15th, 2010 at 7:40 am
@BALLHOGI don’t agree with some of your rants but this is an absolute classic, moreso because it’s soooo true… BTW, did you misspell genius on purpose to add to the flavor? Niiice…
Jackson- This kid comes in to San Antonio and two days later, he is in the rotation and contributing. Blew me away. Ive been told and constantly reminded of the complexity of Pop’s highly detailed system. Well, apparently Jackson is a genious. Welcome to the family Einstein…
March 15th, 2010 at 7:55 am
Jackson has played 9 and 15 minutes in two blowout games. I hardly think that qualifies as “in the rotation.”
March 15th, 2010 at 8:21 am
Tyler: with all due respect, I think you’re way off saying that Manu is past his prime. If you mean as a crazy-ass scorer, perhaps. But as a play -maker, I think he’s just entering his prime. Or perhaps more accurately, he has now been put in a position where he can show his full range of play-making ability. I see no reason why he cannot continue to be a play-maker in the Jason Kidd mold (although, honestly, I’ve never been a big fan of his), relying on his court vision (unmatched by anyone in the league IMO), high basketball IQ, competitiveness and leadership to contribute at a very high level for another 5 or so years. I also agree with Ballhog that we should not discard Ian so easily. The kid is raw, to be sure, but he shows flashes of game and he seems driven. And as others have said, you can’t teach height and athleticism. I hope we keep him and groom him.
March 15th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Nice win by the Spurs; obviously we should have gotten the win, but seeing us dominate for 48 minutes is always encouraging. I have to say it’s funny to hear people say how great Bonner is now that he had a great game where a few days ago you couldn’t swing a cat without hitting someone who thought we should be playing the likes of Ian Mahinmi or Dwayne Jones, and I’m also amused at how people think us beating these bad teams without Parker “prooves” we’re better without him(clearly, it’s not like he was our most valuable player on our last championship or anything), but I degress.
Now we get to the teeth of our schedule. If we can go 4-3 in our remaining games against Cleveland, the Lakers, Orlando, Denver, and Dallas, I would be ecstatic, and 3-4 wouldn’t be so bad. Tough games still to come against Boston, Atlanta, OKC and Phoenix, too, and I feel like we’ve really got to go 3-1 or 4-0 in those games to restore any confidence that we might be able to hang with the other contenders come playoff time.
The interesting thing is, how high do we want to climb? 5th (or even maybe 4th) seed means we probably get Utah, a team that swept us this year, and then the Lakers in the 2nd round. Dallas and Denver look like no picnic, but I’d rather take my chances with them and give us a little more time to work Tony back into the rotation before we (hopefully) get to play the Lakers. The honest truth is that we probably still have a hard time making it out of the first round at all, but assuming our goal is to still win a title at this point, it looks like the 6-7 seeds is where we want to be.
March 15th, 2010 at 9:32 am
…Just a weird thing I’ve noticed, on Hollinger’s Power Ranking thing we’re 5th… Wtf. Lol.
March 15th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Why does everyone hate Tony so much? He is an all star caliber player. I have been a long time spurs fan and I have seen Tony’s steady improvement since his rookie year. This season he is playing hurt. On any given game Tony is in my estimation 75 to 85% healthy. You can see that sometimes he lacks explosiveness to get by his man and to the rim. Tony used to be one of the league leaders in points in the paint as a point gaurd! I love George Hill but he will never be an all star in this league. He will never be gameplanned for by opposing teams. He is a way better defender than Tony. But his ballhandling skills are not outstanding. He doesn’t take his man off the dribble and drive to the rim that much. Most of his buckets come off transition, jumpers, and execution of plays(good cuts). With that being said George has the oppurtunity to thrive in SA because our three “stars” take so much of opposing teams defensive gameplan. It’s pick your poison and teams just can’t stop George when their priorities are to limit Manu, Tim and Tony. The Spurs main problem is their lack of size and lack of a lanky, good perimeter defender that can gaurd multiple positions. George is not tall enough to gaurd the Carmello or the Lebron or have the size to bother a Steve Nash or a Chauncey Billups.
March 15th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Holinger’s power rankings heavily way margin of victory over the last 10 games/25% of the schedule. Two big blowout wins in a row helps those numbers a lot, and the “slumping” Lakers don’t help their cause in that regard, but they are on cruise control to the playoffs and everyone knows it.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:10 am
I don’t know about cruise control. Lakers don’t impress me at all this year.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:15 am
agutierrez -
Over the next 1-2 years, yes, Manu might be able to keep putting up solid numbers in line w/ his career averages. But I think it’s safe to say, that with his style of play, his production is eventually going to taper off. Is that 2 years from now? 3 years? Longer? And knowing this, what price tag do you put on him at the end of this season? Keep in mind, you’re going to have to play him less and less minutes every season to keep him fresh.
It’s more a question of value than anything. Believe me, I want nothing more than to see him retire a Spur, but you can’t break the bank for him. Right now Manu is earning $10.725M (and earning every penny!). All I meant in my post was that the Spurs shouldn’t overpay for him. I’d like to see something starting in the $6-7M range. But what happens if someone offers a contract starting at $10M per? Do we try and top it? As much as it pains me to say, I don’t think we can.
We can agree to disagree on when we think Manu’s play will taper off. But I think we can agree that overpaying, especially older players, is not a wise decision.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:47 am
Well I for one will not be drinking the kool-aid with the rest of you. Yes we have played well the last few games, but before you all get too excited you might want to check the upcoming schedule. We could easily go 2-10 in the next 12. With Golden State and NJ as the only wins. Come on people we beat the Minnesota and the Clippers and some of you think we will move all the way to the fifth seed. We will still need help just to stay out of the 8 spot with our schedule.
March 15th, 2010 at 11:59 am
As far as Parker goes, we really need to look at the whole picture to get a better understanding of why it would be prudent on our part to trade him. Some times you have to make hard decisions about stars, in order to make sure you do not sacrifice your future. What I mean is simply this: If we do nothing and he walks after next year because we can’t/won’t pay him what he thinks he is worth, we will not receive anything. That will be a huge set back. If we trade him either in the off season or by trade deadline next year and get players/draft picks then we get some value for the guy. Bottom line Parker is NOT the same player he was 2 yrs ago and will more than likely continue to decline. He still has great value and we could definitely get a good deal with him included. We can find another PG. Look at the Hornets. Paul gets hurt and Collison can straight ball. You don’t think NO is already thinking of shedding Paul’s big contract to try and get more assets for their team. This is what i am saying for us to do. We have to resign Manu for less money and keep Hill in the fold. Together they will more then handle the PG responsibilities until we get another PG or draft one. As I said on other posts trading Parker will not be popular, but we can’t live in the past. We have to think about the future and what will he bring to our team next year and beyond, and the reality is he could be gone afer next year anyway.
March 15th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Bonner seems to have finally found his sandwich.
March 15th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
I must say that I am amused by everyone talking about how much Bonner improved. He’s been doing those little drive hook shots all year long.
Every game he’s been in he works his butt off on defense. He knows the system and he doesn’t make mental mistakes when he plays defense. He’s not going to shut anyone down in the post by any stretch, but he can make them work.
March 15th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
@ hooptser.
Well I guess the SPURS should just stop playing then.
@JORDAN
I agree. I’ve always liked The Red Rocket and he has been playing like this all year. I still think the SPURS would have a higher seed right now if BONNER didn’t get hurt. POP started with all the rotation changes when BONNER got hurt.
I guess people forgot how he took the ball all the way to the rack and jammed on the RAPTORS earlier this season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BAomDJMEwY
March 15th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Tyler
March 15th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Hoopster
March 15th, 2010 at 11:59 am
Tyler & Hoopster: For the most part, I’m in agreement with your comments on this thread. Nice analysis. We are indeed in a difficult situation with our cap. We simply cannot afford to over-pay, even for our core stars. Some tough decisions will undoubtedly need to be made in the next 6-18 months. I’d love to keep Ginobli, but we will not be able to pay him his current market value. If Ginobli chooses to stay, he will undoubtedly have to make some concessions. Let’s hope he does.
And I would be surprised if the Spurs didn’t have someone right now in the organization taking a thorough look at ALL the possible trade scenarios they feel would help the team going forward, with an emphasis on young talent, and “diamond in the rough” strategies to allow us to keep our team salary in line.
They also may try to add a veteran shot-blocker, and will definitely be looking at what TP & RJ’s 2011 expiring’s could net them. At the same time, they will also want to try and avoid being forced into giving them away too cheaply, if possible. And even if Duncan re-signs in 2012-13, he will have to agree to cut his salary considerably, maybe in half.
In the meantime, the organization needs to work hard on developing the young people we do have. Hill could very well continue to improve considerably. I don’t think we even know where his ceiling is yet. And Blair has tremendous potential, but at age 20, and with the “height” burden, he still has a tremendous amount of work to do. Hairston is a keeper, at least through next season, and we need to do all we can do to ascertain his potential and facilitate his development.
The fact is, we could be a considerably different team next year. We have 14 players on the roster, but half of them have expiring deals before or at the end of the season (Bogans, Bonner, Ginobli, Jackson, Mahinmi, Mason, & Temple). And there is a chance that we don’t sign any of them, which would leave us with Blair, Duncan, Hairston, Hill, Jefferson, McDyess, & Parker, and then seven roster spots to fill without a ton of cap space.
I just hope the FO makes some good moves in the next 6-18 months. One thing we obviously need is youth & size on the frontline!
The question remains: can we find it, and at what cost?
March 15th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
If we get an amazing offer for Tony then of course we look at moving him.
Right now though he is a terrible trade option with his injuries and uncertainty over his playing future internationally.
If we don’t resign Manu though we can’t afford to move him. No Manu, no TP means we are thinner at the guard spots than we are in bigs.
March 15th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
@ Hoopster, Tyler, and Henderson
Finally we have some people on here that are more interested in the Spurs future than what kind of player Tony was 2-3 years ago. The Spurs glory days are at least temporarily over with. The big 3 will not win a championship with the current team and they may NEVER again win a title (at least while they are all together). However, the Spurs have HUGE trade assets and need to restock with young talent and draft picks. Good analysis, gentleman.
March 15th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
If Manu keeps playing like he has been since the Durant block the Spurs will be a dangerous team in the playoff.
Parker off of the bench as instant offense normally would never work b/c Parker isnt as selfless as Manu but with the current situation, coming back to the team after missing the last 20ish games of the season, I think Parker will do what’s best for the team.
Parker, Blair, Bonner, and Haiston off the bench could be a good look.
March 15th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Just a quick one.
Tonys glory days are not 2 to 3 years ago. They were last year.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
If we are talking about rebuilding… this coming year’s draft is pretty deep, for what we need I think. We can get anyone from a selection of shotblockers to compliment Blair… Varnardo, Art Parukouiski, Alabi (florida state), and a gaurd in the second round to compliment hill… Reynolds, Warren, Collins, Vasquez.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Parkers not selfless? Parkers a shoot first point guard?
What are you guys talking about?
Tony is a PG who relies on penetration/ floaters and open floor spacing.
During a season that is horrible by his standars he is averaging 5.7 assists per 31.5 minutes. Thats 8.167 per 48 minutes.
Thats better than Chauncey Billups, Derrik Rose, Mo Williams and a bunch of other upper echelon PG’s. It’s about the same as Andre Miller. Your going to tell me these guys are selfish gunners?
George Hill who never gets called out for being selfish or me first shooter is averaging 4.2 assists in 36 Minutes the past month.
The past month, you know the time he has been keyed in to big minutes and a starting role? I’m not skewing numbers here, i’m taking Georges best ever run of minutes and production.
Thats 5.55 assists per 48 minutes.
George is a great player I love him, I have no issue with our assist numbers, never have and never will. Neither should you guys.
As currently constructed this team is run through Tim Duncan and has always been a team that MAKES the extra pass. We have never needed a PG who does nothing but initiate offence.
Tony has always been happy to make the extra pass, and has always shot the ball at a high %.
Tims one of the best passing bigs of the past 50 years. Manu is one of the best passing SG’s in the league for the past decade.
Why do you think we suddenly need someone to initiate the offence?
I’m just wondering when this benign agreement on players “abilities” and “tendancies” is going to get swept away by the actual facts of the matter.
I’m all for improvement in the Spurs. I’d still like to see some reality in the actual assessments.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Ok Corey just re read your comment you didn’t say TP wasn’t selfless at all
You said he wasn’t as selfless as Manu. Fairly hefty distinction sorry.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
@ all the “Trade TP” people.
Two words: ROdney Stucky.
Many of you think G. HiLL is ready to lead the team. I love HIll and he’s a great player, but he ain’t ready.
PISTONS thought Stuckey was ready. SO they traded BILLUPS. Now look at em.
TP is the future. If MANu can still get to the CUP at 32 then TP still has a lot of game in him left.
The Spurs are going to need him in the Playoffs.
He was just starting to play good when he broke his hand. It’s just bad luck.
The only reasons for trading TP is for a swat straight up for CP3 or if TP isn’t planning on resigning after next season.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Just watching the pistons/celtics game…
I’ll I keep thinking is “Finley, you traitor!!”
God, KG looks bad… TD all day, everyday.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
*all I keep thinking
(I had some adult beverages)
March 15th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
@Bushka
Only reason he had such a stellar year last year was out of neccesity. We had no Manu and TD wore down. But teams have wised up to his game and he does not get into the paint at will anymore and when he does he ends up trapped or trying to make a pass while in the air, and it just does not work anymore. One more point about his great year last season. How did that end up for us in the playoffs when the Mavs adjusted their game and he had to rely on passing to Bonner and Mason. Oh thats right we got bounced in the first round in what I call an embarrassing performance.
For those of u loving you some Bonner right now u should seriously take a look at his stats against the better teams in the league(Teams we will potentially face in playoffs). Not against the lower tier teams like the Clippers.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
@Bushka
What am I talking about? What are you talking about? Watching games and seeing how a player impacts his team is more valuable to me than per minute stats.
Parker is a willing passer…..when he has exhausted his options to score, sorry but it’s a fact! That’s why Parker works well with stand still spot-up shooters.
Now with Manu, players no that if they cut and are open on the floor, Manu will find them. Their is a big difference in the types of assists a player like Parker has vs a player like Manu.
And don’t get me wrong, I like Parker, but if you think Parker would be have come off the bench all of these years for the good of the team like Manu has you are seriously kidding yourself!
March 15th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
And sorry for the spelling and grammer errors.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
All I am saying folks is we have to seriously look at moving Parker. I think he would net more in a trade for us to help our future. We will not win a championship as presently constructed and we just do not have much in the way of trade assets unless we give up Blair or Hill. I for one do not want to do that.
March 15th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Hobson13
March 14th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
“The idea of trading Tony is not such a radical idea that it should be lightly dismissed as lunacy.”
Hobson13
March 14th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
“Again, perhaps we retain Parker and trade RJ, but going into next year with the same lineup minus a few role players is suicide.”
Hobson, I understand your point. That said, for the record, I’m not anxious to move Tony Parker. I think he’s an excellent player, he plays well with Duncan, and has plenty of game left in him (I would like to see him drop international play - it’s time). I only mention his name as a possibility because of his large expiring coming up at the end of next season, and the fact is the Spurs MUST get a young, talented interior player with height & shot-blocking ability. If we did, we might be able to get TD to resign at a smaller contract in a couple years to continue his chase at “realistic” title attempts in a Spur uniform. Just remember though, it’s unlikely either RJ or TP would be moved before next Feb. trade deadline. It’s just become harder & harder to do big deals like that during the off-season. Plus, both TP & RJ would have to ramp up their trade value with a solid, injury free first half of next season.
Now, the thing is I don’t want to lose TP for nothing, and I don’t believe we’ll be able to afford his current salary (or market value next year) and still assemble the necessary pieces to truly “contend” in the next 2-3 years. And as with Manu, if we don’t trade TP before next years trade deadline, we risk losing him if he doesn’t want to concede salary to stay here. That’s always a BIG “if”.
The problem comes down to who do we get for TP, and at what cost? You first have to ask, who needs a point guard like TP? Then, does that team have the right player(s) that we need? These are pretty complex scenarios and weighty decisions to be sure.
You are right about this: we are not going to challenge as currently constructed. And I just don’t know if we can afford the big three and still acquire the missing pieces to truly compete for a title. We proved this year that with TD in decline (still great, productive player, but not the dominant force as in the past) we’re not going to be good enough to compete by filling gaps in the front court with aging players (e.g., McDyess, Ratliff), and one undersized talent (Blair).
The fact is, we simply can’t afford many “star” players, even in a trade (TP could net one, but is that the way we want to go, a star for a star?). Or should we focus on guys “like” DeAndre Jordan of the Clips, or Serge Ibaka of OKC, etc. Bigs that might become stars. But can we even work out a deal for these “types” of players? And of course, if we lose Manu, TP, & RJ we would need a guard & small forward as well. If so, we would need to acquire players “like” Ronnie Brewer of Memphis, or Kelenna Azubuike, Anthony Randolph, & C.J. Watson of the Warriors. But can we come up with good deals for these “types” of players?
All I can say is, let’s hope so!
March 15th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Hoopster I don’t disagree he had a stellar year out of necessity, but he still had it.
It’s a harsh assessment when he blows peoples minds and your not happy just because he had to do that. If anything it shows you how much he plays within himself and for the good of the team
As to the playoffs, it wasn’t just the mavs changing it up, it was the fact that he was a wreck. He faded in the playoffs because he was just used up. His usage on the year was absolutely off the charts.
@Corey.
I am actually saying, why do you want him to be a pass first player? What value is that to our team?
What do the spurs gain by him just trying to create opportunities for others? I also don’t agree that he doesn’t hit cutters or rollers in the pick and roll. He finds Timmy plenty, and is a more than willing passer if someone has a wide open look. It’s not like we’re talking about Yinka Dare here.
Those stats are very much in line with the type of player he is. A composite ball handler who can create for himself or his team mates, like most of the upper echelon point guards are. Billups, Rose, Williams, they all bring those type of skills to the table, thats what we have and it is EXACTLY what we need.
Does Tim need that much help to get a shot off? What about Manu? Has tony ever had a problem being a cog in the wheel?
The spurs don’t need him to be that, and don’t want him to be that. If that’s what was needed Pop and Co. would have changed it up long ago.
If you guys seriously think about moving Parker your going to have a gutted team, with limited cap space and no stars at all.
You think Tim Duncans hanging round to play on the Clippers mark 2?
If you can’t sign Manu, or Manu gets injured severely whats your rotation going to be like?
George & three rookies? Is Roger Mason Jnr your shooting guard of the future?
Do you really think George is ready to be an all star? Because at least one of our guard rotation has to be at that kind of level for us to be serious players over the next few years.
Of course, IF someone offers you a killer deal for anyone outside of Tim you take it and don’t think twice, everyone else is always in play. But just cap space and draft picks? That kind of thing kills franchises and fan bases.
As to the not winning a championship as presently constructed, that may or may not be true. But just trading for the sake of trading is not on the cards, and i’m totally not convinced that George Hill & Dejaun Blair are enough to build a franchise on.
We are a spoilt lot, we look like a solid playoff team, but from the general tone you’d think we were languishing in the lottery for the 4th or 5th season straight.
March 15th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
@Bushka
Again, I really like Parker but your forcing me to sound as if I don’t.
The thing with Parker is that #’s matter to him. All-Star game selections matter to him.
I remember during his first few seasons when he was asked when does he determine whether he should push the ball or not he replied that if he beat Timmy and Robinson down the court he knew he could try to score vs a half court set where he would be the 3rd or 4th option. That’s not something you’d ever hear Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Billups or Rose ever saying.
Like I said earlier, Parker will give it up if he can’t score himself. Watch fastbreaks w/Parker, instead of trying to get a player like Jefferson going by feeding him for an easy dunk he takes himself, every single time! When have you ever seen Parker pass up a shot on a fastbreak? The only time that happens is if it would be blatantly obvious that he didnt want to pass to the player ahead of him down court. To me, that’s not a top 3 point guard. When Parker’s athleticism slows him down his production and value will drop significantly due to the fact that he won’t be able to score at the clip he potentially can now when healthy and he doens’t impact the game in any other way.
March 15th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Bushka
March 15th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Thanks for setting the guys straight on Parker. It doesn’t appear many understand his value to the Spur’s system.
Hoopster
March 15th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
I don’t agree with your assessment of Parker. There are numerous legitimate reasons I won’t take the time to enumerate for his under-achievement this year, and yet he’s still put up some pretty decent numbers anyway. Also, let’s all hope your assessment is wrong, otherwise we wouldn’t get as much for him if we were to move him. And the fact is, we need to get back as much as possible to justify moving him.
March 15th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Refreshing @ Cory Clay
You posted earlier:
“Watching games and seeing how a player impacts his team is more valuable to me than per minute stats”.
I applaud that post. It was truth.
Again, trading Parker, Ginnobli, or Duncan is insane. Seems there have been more than enough stupid moves over the last few years…Time for basketball decisions, not personnal ones.
Spurs would be taking a dangerous route by moving any one of these three players. They are still serviceable high profile players. Minor decline in thier games, but what has been lost physically has been gained mentally.
The major challenge will be for this FO to find the right pieces, the right supporting cast to surround these guys with, and convince them to come to San Antonio and to play for this coach. Good Luck!
No need to trade them and no need to be overly concerned about cap.
We simply need Peter Holt to convince this coach that the time is now to committ to not only developing younger players, but to actually play them.
Even this season is not necessarily a total loss. If the team were to give Bogans’ minutes to Hairston and actually play Mahinmi limited minutes, it could actually make us contenders now.
I would gladly take Mahinmi’s inexperience , mistakes, and even fouls in exchange for his ability to change shots, block shots, and provide size and athleticism in the paint.
I would also demand that Mcdyess and Bonner get reaquainted with the paint for the rest of this season and the playoffs.
Both could really help this team by playing like real NBA PF’s for a change. Not blaming the players though…This is a coaching issue.
As for Mason Jr. Roger is a baller. He is solid at 7th or 8th man off the bench. Not the greatest defender, but can shoot and has the gonads to come out and compete.
I will close the way I opened…
Tony Parker is the wrong guy to trade. The team is weak in areas due to bad management. Spurs should actually try and fix whats broken instead of trying to recreate the wheel.
Bring in real basketball players. Guys that can do more than one thing. How about guys that can shoot, move, and communicate? Maybe even a player or two with the ability to intimidate a tad bit, here and there?.
How about REAL power forwards who can play a lil defense, get a rebound, or maybe even block a shot. Younger versions of Mcdyess type players would be excellent.
How about an actual Center for a change?
How about a back up point guard with some size and grit?
Thousands of College players, tons of free agents, and more available role players than one could count….All at bargain basement pricing!
Should it really be that difficult to do?
Do we really need to break up our core to right the ship?
March 15th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
As I said to everyone it would not be the most popular decision, but remember this, he and his hollywood wife/lifestyle might leave anyway and we get nothing for him. Let me make it clear that I think that Parker has been great for our franchise, but he has always been a me first point guard. Remember how much Pop used to rail on the guy because he was not in the right spots on D and he was not hitting cutters, etc. It was because he was and is always looking for his numbers. It was disguised well because we had a lot of quality role players that never complained. As those players have departed and our team is not as strong he has taken on an even larger role. If we do not move him or get something for him we will set ourselves back another several years. Because mark my words getting the biggest possible deal on what might be his last opportunity on a big contract will come first and foremost, and he will not care about how many of you loyal fans stuck by him. I have no doubt that if we do not move him we will lose him for nothing. Because we will not be able to afford him. Keep in mind that TP will probably not want to be here after TD is done, and if i am not mistaken TD’s contract is done 1 yr after TP’s. So why would he not leave earlier?
March 15th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Ballhog,
In your post I agree, but there is a fault in your thinking. we have never really attracted younger/athletic free agents and we were ok with that because TD, Manu, And TP were young and still very athletic but that is not the case anymore. We have to be able to get them here another way and that would be through trade. The players that we need to get on our roster I agree 100% with you, but again we end up with older guys that are on their last legs so to speak. Or guys that are not Pop guys and he won’t play them, but as we have agreed upon before this FO has not done a great job of keeping some of the talented draft picks we have had in the past. We need to accumulate draft picks/players as well as possibly getting some players back in trade. Unfortunately sometimes the only way to do that is by trading a major asset.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
BALLHOG
March 15th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
You say:
“If the team were to give Bogans’ minutes to Hairston and actually play Mahinmi limited minutes, it could actually make us contenders now.”
BALLHOG, can we stick to reality? Please!?
You say:
“How about REAL power forwards who can play a lil defense, get a rebound, or maybe even block a shot. Younger versions of Mcdyess type players would be excellent.
How about an actual Center for a change?
How about a back up point guard with some size and grit?
Thousands of College players, tons of free agents, and more available role players than one could count….All at bargain basement pricing!
Should it really be that difficult to do?”
Of course it is. Do you really think this is “NBA Monopoly”, the board game? This is real money & real assets (players), most of which are of unpredictable value. And no, we don’t collect $200 million for passing “GO”; we get disqualified for passing the cap.
The fact is it’s NOT going to be easy to re-sign the big three AND fill in the important gaps with budding stars and “useful” role players that add up to another championship - AND STAY UNDER THE CAP!
I didn’t say it was impossible, but if the FO could pull it off, the Spurs would be well on their way to another “franchise of the decade”.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
@ Hoopster
We may not agree on every point, but the options that you mentioned in your posts are definately possible . Though I love Tp as a player, he would be the logical player of the BIG 3 to trade, if the team’s hand was forced. Its unfortunate, but true.
I agree with you that his Hollywood wife is a factor as well as Duncan’s eventual exit. If we are truly keeping it real, Tony would be a fool not to go out and get market value. His next deal would probably be his last opportunity for a max contract.
If the Spurs actually decide to trade Tony, they absolutely must get it right. They must persue a trade that will bring them the players that they need, now.
No more scrubs and wanna be’s.
Personally, I wouldnt take that route. I would keep my core intact and bring in the proper supporting cast. That way the team can rebuild while continuing to be competitive in the West for the next two seasons, at least.
Spurs should definately proceed with caution.
They have a coach, with a style of coaching, that will not only deter todays young players from comming here to play, but will create pause for veterans as well. Being small fish in a large pond, surviving a 10 to 12 year rebulding process, even 5 years in this economy, might be more than the franchise could handle.
I would hate to see the city lose the club.
Hoping for the best…
March 15th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
@Ballhog, I agree that trading Parker is not the answer.
The key is to find complimentary players that match what is key to the Spurs current need.
I think the biggest need is a secondary player that replicates what Brent Barry used to bring to the table. Parker can not be the best distributor on the team if we are to be successful. The Spurs need to retain Manu and bring in a player such as Mike Miller or Boris Diaw.
Jefferson thus far has not worked and is only contributing when on the court with Manu when the original hope was that he would be able to somewhat replace what Manu does in case of injury or when Manu was out of the came. That clearly is not the case.
What is interesting is the possibilities that could arise with a likely lockout.
Mike Monroe wrote about the fact that the lockout could potentially mean that the Spurs will lose out in a bidding war for Tiago Splitter. Lets look at this scenario and how it could affect negotiations of NBA players. I wonder if older players that don’t get a contract for multiple years will elect for contract that is 2nd year player option in this case if a lockout occured than the player would be able to opt out of his contract then go overseas and make money while players under NBA contracts would not be able to do this.
Players I could see doing this are Ray Allen, Shaq, Tracy McGrady, and our very own Manu.
March 15th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Hoopster
March 15th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
“Let me make it clear that I think that Parker has been great for our franchise, but he has always been a me first point guard.”
So, you seem to admit that Parker was integral to 3 Spurs titles, and yet in the same breath you diss him for his so-called “me first” selfishness as a point guard. Is his “selfishness” therefore actually good for the team, somehow?
Then you seem to connect TP’s so-called “me first” attitude as a player to a likelihood of him being selfish in his upcoming contract negotiations.
Number one, your premise is wrong. TP is NOT a selfish, “me first” player. And I don’t think the coach or the players would agree. Number two, don’t forget the game is a business too. If TP get’s a better offer at this point in his career, you can’t blame him for taking it. The great majority of players would, just as the great majority of people on this blog would leave their company after several years for a more lucrative offer.
You seem to be impugning TP’s character, and I really don’t feel there’s sufficient justification for that. I’m sure that’s not your intent, and it’s likely that this line of speculation is really just an expression of your concern for the potential of losing Parker to free agency without getting anything in return (an unfortunate reality at times in the NBA). I just don’t think the “me first” TP tact is accurate, or the most effective way to make your case.
March 15th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
What alternate reality are some of you living in? A number of posts act as Parker’s injury is the only thing holding the big 3 back from seriously competing. That is not the case. This team is not really even that close to competing for a championship even if we did have Parker healthy. There are simply too many younger teams that either have up and coming stars or stars that are several years younger that ours. The league changed and got younger/athletic while the Spurs attempted to slot older “veteran” players into the lineup.
IMO, The Spurs need to go back to 2002-2003 mode when Pop was coaching/teaching young talent such as Parker, Manu, SJax, and a much younger Duncan. What do we want to do, keep the big 3 intact and win 50 games this year, 45 games next year, 40 games the year after, etc? Essentially die a slow death or make some moves while we still have options? We need younger talent/good prospects but we have no cap space to sign free agents and we aren’t losing enough to get high draft picks. The only assets the Spurs have are some GREAT trade assets.
I agree with what many of you have stated. It is VERY risky to trade a Tony Parker caliber player, but the alternative is very likely to go through a multiyear basketball wilderness of irrelavency. I, for one, would prefer us take the initiative while we still can.
March 15th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
@BallHog
I agree with you dude. Exactly what I was thinking.
@HOBSON13
I get your point about looking to the future and making deals when you can but not when you have a Finals MVP.
Trading TP will more likely cause the “multiyear basketball wilderness of irrelavency” you mention than Spurs not trading TP.
They need to bring in solid role players to put around TP, not send him off for role players that will have no one to play off of.
March 16th, 2010 at 12:00 am
Hobson13
March 15th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Hobson, if you’ve read my previous posts on this thread you’ll notice that our thinking on the “keep TP on the list of trade considerations” is on the same wavelength. I don’t buy into the, “no, don’t even seriously think about trading TP crowd”. I think it’s silly, and is simply not dealing with reality.
My point though is that we need to somehow come up with the “right piece(s)” in exchange for Parker if we’re going to pull the trigger on one of the big three. It is my contention that the MAIN piece we simply must have to truly contend is a solid, preferably younger defender in the paint that can rebound & block shots to line up next to an aging Duncan. As you know, these types of players are not easy to come by.
Nevertheless, I did find a deal that at least on the surface seems like it might work out well for both teams. Here’s a link for the proposed deal off the “trade machine” website.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzz9lgx
Parker & McDyess to Sixers for Dalembert & Williams.
What are your thoughts?
March 16th, 2010 at 12:16 am
It’s funny how a Clippers game post generates that many comments. But its always interesting to read opinions with good arguments. I don’t agree with everyone of you (and who cares?) but almost every point is interestingly built. That better than the POP SUCKS and the TP CANT DO THAT.
By the way.
I may be wrong, cause I didn’t watch a whole lot of live Spurs Basketball prior to the 2001 heartbreaker, but did any PG in the Spurs system ever rack up lots of assists? I’m guessing Pop’s system doesn’t favor assists from PG like, say, Sloan’s.
March 16th, 2010 at 12:21 am
Ok. While I will not shrink from my idea of trading TP i understand why the argument, but if we can’t find another way to get talent here and or get the draft picks to rebuild, we would be crazy not to trade TP. He is the best asset we have.
Sorry folks but we will not win the lottery and end up with DR and TD in succession. Say what u will but Pop also was the benefactor of this luck. Bottom line we need to do something and even that is apparant to the FO by virtue of their move for Jokerson. All I will say is we have to make moves, of course we have to be careful and make the right moves.
March 16th, 2010 at 1:08 am
buns
March 16th, 2010 at 12:16 am
“I may be wrong, cause I didn’t watch a whole lot of live Spurs Basketball prior to the 2001 heartbreaker, but did any PG in the Spurs system ever rack up lots of assists? I’m guessing Pop’s system doesn’t favor assists from PG like, say, Sloan’s.”
No, you’re exactly right about this. No PG has ever had a lot of assists in Pop’s system, and none have scored 18 ppg either. Unfortunately, the anti-TP crowd just don’t get it.
Parker is surrounded by two of the greatest passer’s at their position (Duncan & Ginobli) to ever play the game. It’s not like Nash on the Sun’s, who’s offense runs around Nash, at least partly because Nash’s principal teammates are NOT good passers (Amare, Richardson, Lopez, Frye, etc.). The Spurs offense runs through Duncan …… and then through Ginobli, Parker, etc. THAT’S THE SPURS SYSTEM, AND PARKER & his SIX apg. fits very well in it!
Bushka does a great job explaining this, and has felt inclined as a result of many of the comments on this blog to explain it repeatedly. So, once and for all, can you anti-TP people please try to understand this basic concept. It’s not rocket science!
March 16th, 2010 at 5:37 am
Henderson,
The trade you proposed is interesting. I wonder if they would take RJ instead of Tony and McDyess. The trade you propose would indeed get us younger at two positions and Dalembert would re-sign for far less than the $12mill he is getting now. He’s a good young shot blocker who could really help TD along that back line.
Here’s the kind of trade I think we would have to pull off for someone like Parker:
Parker and McDyess for the Twolves Center Al Jefferson and PG Ramon Sessions. If we could get this kind of blockbuster deal, I think we have to do it. If we can’t get a great deal for Parker, then I agree with the rest, there’s no point in giving him away.
BTW: Theoretically this trade might actually work. Minny is rumored to be shopping Al and they could buy McDyess out leaving even more cap space to resign Parker. If they did not want to resign Parker, they would have just saved $16 mil in cap space for a Free Agent.
March 16th, 2010 at 6:13 am
As far as trading guys in the future:
I think this playoffs will tell us a lot. If we look slow, old, and worn out, I think RC will feel pressured to make some significant changes next year. But if we make a run at the conference finals and suprise a couple opponents, you might not see any major moves.
I’m definitely not an advocate for trading any of our big 3. I still think they’ve got a lot left in the tank. However, you have to explore all possibilities. Over the past few seasons, injuries have become more frequent, a direct result of age/wear. Expect more of this. This is what happens to players entering their 30’s (even though he hasn’t reached that point, TP has as many miles as most players in their early 30’s).
Either way you cut the cake, the reality is tough decision will have to be made. Keep in mind that our cap figure is waaaaaaay out of the norm for us. Any moves made will have to rein in that figure.
March 16th, 2010 at 6:19 am
And for the record - TP is not selfish or me-first.
TD has been our defacto point guard over the last decade. As others touch on, he’s one of the best passers out of the double team in the history of the league. We don’t need high volume assist guys. We need guys who can attack a fractured defense and take advantage of driving angles. TP does that better than just about any PG in the league and is a big reason why he’s a perfect fit for our offense.
March 16th, 2010 at 8:02 am
im kind of a late comment in this blog, but i was really intruiged by garbage time.
cedric jackson can straight up ball. i believed he tallied 2 blocked shots, 3 steals, and 4 assists. he looked like a pretty savvy player out there. at one point he sucked the defense in with a few fancy dribbles before unexpectedly kicking the ball out to matt bonner for a three. that was the most impressive.
malik hairston continues to impress me, but i still think we should make some kind of effort to get roger mason jr going. we are going to need his offense wonce the playoffs get rolling. im glad we have an athletic defender at the wing position, but we need some offensive punch as well. i guess the only way to get rj going is to play him 20+ and that’s not happening.
mahinmi actually looked like a stud out there, albiet against the clippers bench. he actually looked comfortable with his back to the basket, for once, and had some nice left handed finished around the rim. looked like he was fighting harder for boards as well. the guy is still foul prone, but honestly, i didn’t see how he picked up the 2 he was givin. on offense, he is still a bit lost and at one point crashed into dejuan blair. mahinmi still looks like he is physically uncomfortable with his size like a junior high kid that just hit puberty and he still lacks the leg strength that will keep him from getting pushed out of rebounding position, but i think one good summer can fix this. im telling you, he is one summer away from breaking out into a productive NBA player.
lets beat the heat
March 16th, 2010 at 8:02 am
im kind of a late comment in this blog, but i was really intruiged by garbage time.
cedric jackson can straight up ball. i believed he tallied 2 blocked shots, 3 steals, and 4 assists. he looked like a pretty savvy player out there. at one point he sucked the defense in with a few fancy dribbles before unexpectedly kicking the ball out to matt bonner for a three. that was the most impressive.
malik hairston continues to impress me, but i still think we should make some kind of effort to get roger mason jr going. we are going to need his offense wonce the playoffs get rolling. im glad we have an athletic defender at the wing position, but we need some offensive punch as well. i guess the only way to get rj going is to play him 20+ and that’s not happening.
mahinmi actually looked like a stud out there, albiet against the clippers bench. he actually looked comfortable with his back to the basket, for once, and had some nice left handed finished around the rim. looked like he was fighting harder for boards as well. the guy is still foul prone, but honestly, i didn’t see how he picked up the 2 he was givin. on offense, he is still a bit lost and at one point crashed into dejuan blair. mahinmi still looks like he is physically uncomfortable with his size like a junior high kid that just hit puberty and he still lacks the leg strength that will keep him from getting pushed out of rebounding position, but i think one good summer can fix this. im telling you, he is one summer away from breaking out into a productive NBA player.
lets beat the heat
March 16th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Hobson13
March 16th, 2010 at 5:37 am
“Here’s the kind of trade I think we would have to pull off for someone like Parker:
Parker and McDyess for the Twolves Center Al Jefferson and PG Ramon Sessions.”
Not a bad deal, but I see a couple of problems. Number one, Our FO would be committing to an additional 20 million in excess of the deal that I proposed, and the Spur FO at this point may be very leery of that.
And number two, the deal is really not as good of a fit for either team. For example, I think the T-Wolves are really high on Jonny Flynn to run their point guard spot. And as a result, I don’t think that they are putting a premium on acquiring a high-priced point guard at this point. And as far as the Spurs, Dalambert is a better fit because he doesn’t need as many offensive touches as Al Jefferson, and he defends the paint better, and blocks more shots.
Leave a Reply