Friday, March 19th, 2010...10:22 am
San Antonio Spurs, Duncan look to rebound
Rarely is a matchup against a 19-48 lottery team at the AT&T Center ever considered a must win, but for a Spurs team clinging to the seventh seed in the playoffs with a hellish schedule ahead that’s exactly what tonight is.
And if we’re being honest, success against the Golden State Warriors should not be measured in terms of a win, but by how much rest a taxed lineup can get before hitting the road for an Atlanta/Oklahoma City back-t0-back.
I know, every NBA team is an NBA team with NBA talent. Except when they’re not. The Warriors come in featuring three Developmental League players in their rotation, the familiar Anthony Tolliver, along with Chris Hunter and Reggie Williams.
Not to mention Rookie-of-the-Year candidate Stephen Curry, nursing a sprained ankle, being questionable for tonight.
Somewhere in the back of his mind I’m sure Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich is hoping tonight turns into a veritable D-League All-Star game with Ian Mahinmi (10 points in 12 minutes against Orlando), Malik Hairston, and whoever suits up between Cedric Jackson and Garrett Temple getting at least a quarter of playing time.
Of course, a lot of that is predicated on what happens with the starters, and Tim Duncan in particular. The Spurs are quite capable of winning this game without Duncan factoring in at all offensively, but perhaps as important as rest is getting their star forward into some sort of offensive rhythm again. His recent struggles were well documented by Jeff McDonald at the Express-News:
Duncan made his first shot against the Magic, a running hook, then missed nine in a row. It surpassed his previous worst performance, a 1-for-8 outing against Minnesota on April 20, 2005.
Asked after the game if Duncan had just experienced an off night, coach Gregg Popovich chuckled and said, “I hope so.”
For the second consecutive season, Duncan’s production has diminished after the All-Star break. In the past 15 games, Duncan is averaging 15.1 points and shooting 43.1 percent from the field, down more than four points and nine percentage points from before the break.
With the resurgence of Manu Ginobili, it’s been easy to overlook Duncan’s struggles this month. I’m not even sure you can call poor statistics in limited minutes of blowout wins struggles, but it’s something that merits keeping an eye on moving forward.
37 Comments
March 19th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Agreed — with Tony down and Manu resurgent, it’s not clear how much of Timmy’s struggles can be attributed to him wearing down and how much can be attributed to a poor adjustment to the offense running much more through Manu than through him lately. As such, I’m not terribly worried about how well Timmy plays down the stretch as long as we still make the playoffs.
That said, if Tony is well enough to play in the first round, how good we look in the playoffs is likely to determine whether this might be the end of the Spurs as we know them or whether they get one more shot next year. With Manu’s contract expiring, I think whether or not we re-sign him has more to do with how well the team does than with how well he does individually, per se. Even if Manu plays like the Manu of 5 years ago, if the rest of the team isn’t good enough to put us into title contention, does it make sense to bring him back? If it’s clear that the team is no longer championship caliber, wouldn’t we actually be doing Manu, as well as ourselves, a favor by helping him with sign-and-trade options so that he can get paid and pick the best situation for him (wouldn’t Orlando be able to kick anybody’s butt if they got Manu regardless of how the LBJ summer FA situation works out?) while we pick up some assets for rebuilding?
March 19th, 2010 at 10:51 am
I hate to see Timmy slow down.
It is obvious that his knees have seen better days.
At the beginning of the year, he was winning almost every opening top-off. Now I cant remember the last time he won one.
As bad as it sounds, Timmy is one of only (8?) in the league that is averaging a double-double. He is still an effecient scorer, and rebounder, and is great at team defense. With his lateral quickness went his defensive dominance.
I would love nothing more than (as someone mentioned earlier) to have Timmy approach the front office about a paycut to help keep Manu a Spur. I doubt it would happen, but it would be great the team. If for nothing else, it could help bring over Splitter.
March 19th, 2010 at 10:57 am
Rest TD tonight. We can beat this team without Duncan and he needs the rest when you consider next week: three games in four days with must wins over conference rivals OKC and LA, plus a top team in Atlanta. Then Cleveland. Off tonight means three straight days of rest.
March 19th, 2010 at 11:13 am
I think TD is playing hurt. He’s not jumping well and not moving well at all. Knowing him, he probably will wait until the season is over before telling anybody about it. I also think that Blair has hit the ‘rookie wall’ or he really, really misses Manu playing off the bench.
March 19th, 2010 at 11:20 am
i would say it is a little of column a and column b i terms if wearing down and a pure offensive slump.
since tony isn’t in the starting lineup, tim isn’t getting any easy looks thanks to the pick and roll game. at least 6 point of his current average come off those easy looks. maybe that shouldn’t be the case with manu in the lineup, but maybe it is.
resting timmy would be a smart idea, but this is indeed a must win.
just like in pac man, we need to eat the pellets before we get eaten by inky, blinky, and clyde! (my apaologies)
March 19th, 2010 at 11:37 am
Tim’s 43% FT shooting since the All Star break breaks down as follows:
4-23 vs. Pacers in first game after the break
52% in the next half dozen or so games
40% since Tony broke his hand
He got 26 rebounds vs. the Pacers so it’s hard to argue knee problems. I think he misses Tony, though.
March 19th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
Duncan carried this team for half a year (and several of the past years) when no one else was showing up. Sadly, this team needs to win and rest isn’t an option, at least for an entire game. Start Blair or Mahinmi tonight and see how they roll. If Duncan is needed, bring him in.
March 19th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
What I find perplexing (among other things) is that Pop has talked all season long about resting TD, particularly during the latter half of the season with its many back to backs, but then, right before the second half of the season gets underway, he gets rid of the one guy (Theo) who could spell TD on the defensive end of the floor. I know it saved Peter Holt $800k or so, but I bet he’d have made that up by us extending a playoff series, having home court advantage at some point and/or by making it to the second round (chances of which could have been enhanced by having Theo). It just seems odd.
March 19th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
@agutierrez
Who knows, but Holt may have forced the Ratliff buyout if he thought we weren’t likely to contend. We assume the almighty Pop made that call, but it might not have been his call (or Buford’s for that matter).
March 19th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
I think theo wanted out and lets not underestimate the warriors. they have been giving good teams hard time, just ask the lakers
March 19th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
I agree with SpurredOn, rest Timmy tonight. I believe the risk is worth the reward. There is a good chance of winning tonight without TD (low risk) and the rest will be a good reward for next week’s schedule.
March 19th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
Who knows, but Holt may have forced the Ratliff buyout if he thought we weren’t likely to contend. We assume the almighty Pop made that call, but it might not have been his call (or Buford’s for that matter).
—————-
Ratliff was traded to the Bobcats for a 2nd round pick in 2016, not a buyout.
March 19th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
The Warriors are just ridiculous.
I’ve never seen a team play less D.
March 19th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
Did you guys seem Hairston? Can you guys honestly tell me that this guy should have been on the bench and in the D League all year? Also, looks like Mihimi can play?
With Tim Struggling and needing backup, how can this guy be sitting all year???????
Oh, I forgot, Pop is a genius, so don’t question him! Even when he is coaching like an absolute idiot.
I don’t get it.
March 19th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
as well as Manu and RJ are playing lately, it all comes down to Timmy. we need a big man inside where we can go to for reliable scoring in the paint and last line of defense. unfortunately Timmy is slipping, but he can still play at a high level. he can still be a leader on the court, hit the bank shot, and alter shots. thing is, Timmy needs help. i’m not losing hope on making a run this season, but we do need to make some additions this offseason…. here goes:
1) sign Manu. give him longer contract at smaller amount to show him respect and desire to keep him. say $7.5 million a year for 4/5years. instead of a higher annual salary.
2) we need Splitter. offer him what we can and explain the opportunity to play in NBA, opportunity to compete for championship, learn from Duncan, and even be go to guy in couple of years.
3) find a reliable sharpshooter. doesn’t need to be best player on team, but someone who can make a shot. everyone needs a Steve Kerr/John Paxson/Hornaceck/John Starks type player. go after Anthony Morrow/JJ Reddick/Rodney Carney/Kyle Korver type player. Morrow would be inexpensive and young, although he’s restricted FA.
4) find a taker for McDyess to provide salary cap relief. just didn’t work.
an eight man rotation of Parker, Hill, Manu, shooter (say Morrow), RJ, Duncan, Blair and Splitter would be solid. throw in Ian, Malik Hairston, and two more and we would have youth, athleticism, and veteran leadership.
thoughts?
March 19th, 2010 at 7:19 pm
I want all you genius and Pop back to check the box for the Spurs/Warrior. For only the few times this year do you see proper distribution of minutes and an real effort to limit that bum, Bogan’s minutes- Oh, Bogans is a defensive stopper? How did he do on Monty Ellis tonight? — Cornerstone of the team my Azz! This guy is a bum — Pop is dreaming if he thinks he can plug this guy in for Bruce Bowen. The only thing that have in common is a BALL head.
March 19th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
Why has it taken the lose of 1/3 of our team and 3/4 of the season for Pop to begin to set a reasonable rotation? Are you telling me that it takes a veteran coach like Pop a whole season to decide who can play and who can’t?
Pop should have never gone into the season with Finley. His presence was just a wasted roster spot when Hairston could have been getting productive minutes and more experience.
March 19th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
Somebody send Pop a telegram letting him know that Hairston and Mahinmi can Ball.
Spurs could instantly improve by giving these guys minutes now, and into the playoffs.
They are young and inexperienced, but they bring hunger, young legs, and tons of athleticism.
The Red Rocket…AKA The Red Improvement….Big hand to Matt B for finally deciding to bring some game.
Still say Matt should be at the 3. He would be a much tougher matchup for most teams at that spot. I ragged on Bonners game for years and he desrved that criticism.
However, He is playing harder and showing some variety in his game. He is suddenly playing better defensively than I have ever seen him play.
This Temple kid could be a good role player. Big body, decent feet. Little coaching and he could help off the bench at 6′6. However, Marcus Willams is better.
I must close with a point…
Hairston should really begin to cut into Bogans minutes. A guy that can put the ball on the floor and create. He is a threat off the dribble, shotts it well, plays defense, and jumps clear out of the gym.
Nothing against Kieth “The Glove” Bogans, but Hairston is 10 times better.
Can Spurs get out of the first round? Play these kids, give Blair more minutes, and give Ginnobli free rein.
I will take 11 dimes any day of the week.
March 19th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Cuban and the Mavs can’t wait for the Spurs to release Mahinmi. Pop is a fool for letting a young, 7 footer dangle out there and not even get anything in return for him. Are you telling me that this Spur team can afford to give up a young, hung, athletic, 7 footer?
Geez, Pop really have you guys smelling his gas and liking it — Good grief, why don’t you guys pull the wool down and start thinking for yourselves.
March 19th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
Just as I thought, fresh after a big game and no response. You guys have about as much enthusiasm, emotion and fire as Duncan. By the way, do you guys think Tim will get his flabby tail in the weight before his career is over? Geez, pay a guys $16M per year, its the least he could do.
I like to see Tim stand up for once a be a real leader. Like Kobe and Lebron, it would be nice to hear him be vocal about key personnel matter. To watch he and Tony Parker be silent all year while Pop failed to utilize personnel and set some semblance of an rotation. They really could not afford to just blow games while giving guys like Bogus and Bonner 25+ mins per game. These two guys could not play on any other NBA team. Yet,with the Spurs, they start and or get significant minutes.
You guys need to really consider getting a pair and speaking up.
March 19th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Bravo, Ballhog, Bravo! I was beginning to think no one on this site knew Bball. Just a bunch of Pop jock sniffers.
Doesn’t take much to see that both Hairston and Mihimi should have been playing.
March 19th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Trade Proposal: Keith Bogus -straight up - for a bag of peanuts.
Matt Bonner -straight up - for a can of ranch style beans.
With these two moves, all of Spurs personnel issue will be solved.
March 19th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
I’m loving this, it’s like some furious clones of GT unleashing their wrath and speaking the truth on to the Spurs cybercommunity.
March 19th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
[...] trying to prove themselves and find who they are, fulfilling one of the goals mentioned in our game preview. Somewhere in the back of his mind I’m sure Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich is hoping tonight [...]
March 19th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
@bigballs
Are you serious? Surely you can’t be serious. I’m sorry, but you’re making yourself out to be a mega-douche. I’m not trying to start anything here, but how are you going to rag on Timmy? And then Pop? And then us, the fans? You do know this is Spurs website, right? But fine. Here’s what you wanted.
I’m sorry we didn’t all rush to our laptops to post our full and thorough thoughts since this was SUCH a big game. I’m sorry we didn’t realize that 2 D-Leaguers were going to bring us the 5th championship. I’m sorry you don’t have spell check; misspelling Mahinmi that many times must be embarrassing. I’m sorry we all sniff Pop’s jock and refuse to question him and his 4 championships. I’m sorry Pop wasn’t psychic in order for him to see that Finley wasn’t going to be the savvy veteran we usually have. I’m sorry Tim Duncan, the greatest Power Forward of all time, hasn’t gone to work out to get ripped like Dwight Howard; he clearly needed it throughout his career. I’m sorry Timmy never yelled at his Spurs like LeBron; LeBron obviously knows what he’s doing with his significant amount of NBA Championships. I’m sorry we’re not all as smart as you and Ballhog. I’m sorry we didn’t find your trade proposal to be comedic in the least. I’m sorry we didn’t speak up here on a sports blog, because obviously Pop frequently reads here and takes all of our opinions to heart.
Happy?
Anyways, I didn’t get to see the game tonight. I see it was blow-out though. Hope Timmy got his rest. We’re gonna need it for the ATL/OKC duo. I personally think we can take both of those games. OKC seems the harder out of the two. Not to rag on ATL, I just think our boys are gonna be a bit tired for OKC. But hey, we’ve beaten both before, we can do it again. Go Spurs Go!
March 19th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
@Bigballs,
You aren’t doing yourself any good by posting here. There is no substance to you thoughts bro. At least come here with something quasi-thoughtful.
Let’s not cream our jeans because we beat the hell out of the WARRIORS! Nor should we all start clamoring that Hairston and Mahinmi should be the real answer to our problems….they aren’t. This is the worst defense in the league and a D-league team could put 120 on them any day of the week.
I’ve been a Spurs fan since ‘86 (was at Robinson’s first home game in ‘89) and will always be, but they simply aren’t as good as their teams since ‘99. It wouldn’t matter if Mahinmi and Hairston played 30 mpg or if Phil Jackson were coaching, this team would be really close to where they are now, a playoff team……we should enjoy being fans and quit jumping bandwagons and acting like we actually know how things should be run….in actuality Poppovich will forget, and has forgotten more basketball than any of us will ever know. Besides, no one important really gives a shit what we think anyhow.
March 19th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
Why arent you an NBA coach bigballs? You seem to know everything. Granted, you provide no statistical analysis or even any meaningful thoughts. Please feel free to continue spouting off ignorance, but unless you start saying something intelligent, you’re just going to get ignored.
Nobody here thinks Pop is perfect. I think his only real mistakes this year have been overestimating Bogans and Finley. Aside from that, over the past decade, he’s shown himself to be pretty brilliant. So personally, i’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt a couple more times.
Mahinmi has played very well. Against depleted frontcourts. The Warriors dont exactly have an excellent frontline. Most of the other times he’s been out there, hes scored some but he has also turned the ball over quite a bit. He breaks even. He’s not the superstar or savior so many people think he is- he cant even beat out Ronny Turiaf for minutes for the French National team.
As far as it taking Pop this long to settle into a rotation- there was a stretch midseason where the rotation was set, and we were winning games/losing close games. Everyone was healthy. Then, surprisingly, Bonner broke his hand, and we stopped shooting well. Pop started tinkering with the rotation again to try to get the matchups back in our favor. We starting winning some again, then Bonner came back but had to get in rhythm, then Parker broke his hand, and all hell broke loose. Basically, even though we havent had as many injuries as usual this year, they’ve still come at the worst possible time.
This line of thought that Bonner is not a good player is completely absurd. He is not the best ATHLETE but he is an excellent basketball player. Any real student of the game would have been able to appreciate him from the get go. His lack of athleticism is what prevents him from being a top 10 big guy. As is, he is a more than serviceable 4/5 when he does not have to rely on athleticism to make plays. He makes smart plays, rarely turns it over, and rarely tries to do more than he is capable of doing. He rarely dunks it, rarely swats shots, but he almost never gets torched on defense, never makes bad passes on offense, never takes bad shots, almost never misses rotations and generally just plays good, fundamental basketball.
As for your rant about Duncan, the guy is usually bulkier than this (and you have to be, in order to bang with the likes of Andrew Bynum and the Gasol brothers, not to mention Shaq or Dwight Howard), but he changed his workout to make himself lighter and better conditioned to save his knees. Why does Duncan need to be a vocal leader? He doesnt. If he ran around yelling all the time, people would tune him out. Now when he talks, people listen.
Something Duncan knows, but obviously you dont, is that “it is better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you’re stupid than to open it and remove all doubt”.
Ballhog-
Bonner lacks the athleticism to play the 3. Otherwise, i would absolutely agree with you. I’d love to have a 6′10 guy at the 3- unfortunately, that guy is not Matt Bonner. He’s Lamar Odom.
I was disappointed when Marcus Williams got cut. I think Temple could be a good bench player, too, but lets remember this is the Warriors we just played. We cant really draw many conclusions from this game. I do hope he at least gets a camp invite, though. I liked the way Cedric played too. Both of them have a lot of potential.
And Hairston continues to make the most out of his time out there. I’d be OK with him getting a lot more time. But at this point, to be honest, I would rather him take RMJ’s than Bogans. I think Roger has had one good game this year. Bogans has had a couple nice ones recently. I was really anti-Bogans at the beginning of the year and him getting so many minutes (and even being brought in to begin with) really had me questionning Pop. But lets face it- nobody was going to replace Bruce. Those are big shoes to fill. Bruce was really good at getting after people after they had the ball. One thing i’ve noticed is that Bogans is really good at denying the ball. It’s a different kind of defense and it’s much higher risk, but he’s been getting better recently. I wouldnt be opposed to giving him the veterans minimum next year and letting him try to earn some more minutes again- although i would rather have Hairston and Williams getting the bulk of him and RMJ’s playing time.
To all:
Bonner led the team in blocks tonight, didnt miss a shot from the field or the line, and had 5 boards, 0 turnovers. Just another ho-hum performance from the MVP…I mean Red Rocket
March 19th, 2010 at 11:49 pm
BigB should not be allowed to post and BigB should-yet again-be forced to create a new email account for the priviledge of posting here.
Because of the foul language, but more so because multiple postings totally miss the point as to why the Spurs have won in the past and how they can win in the future….namely Pop.
The Spurs never out-talented any of the other contenders, so it matters little to Pop that Bogans and Bonner are not super talented. Fabricio and Bowen were dead me walking, but if upgrades McDyess and Jefferson don’t fit its not Pops fault. And don’t exagerate that Mahinmi and Hairston are better-they aren’t.
But the coach that can help Hairston is the same one who Hill and Blair swear has made them better: Popovich
March 20th, 2010 at 5:23 am
I have it on good authority that Tim and Graydon will be making significant changes here. The first one will take you to in IQ Test before your comment can be submitted. Comments will not be posted unless your IQ is close to “normal”.
It’s pretty obvious that when this change is implemented, we will not be hearing from a few of our “favorites”. Too bad…
March 20th, 2010 at 7:03 am
@ Wannabe_fan
Everyone has an opinion and thier opinion doesnt have to mirror yours or anyone elses on this site.
I dont agree with vulgar screen names and profanity in here, but lets not star that entitlement crap.
I read that crap too…
This guy BigB was simply ranting. He wasnt making much sense. Seems he was trying to fuel a reaction from any idiot that would bite. Dont like a post, simply move past it.
You remind me of a certain type of guy. He never had lunch money in school.
So if you are a lil sensitve, it is possible to post on the Oprah site.
March 20th, 2010 at 8:16 am
@Ballhog: try following your own advice: “Dont like a post, simply move past it”
Good Luck!
March 21st, 2010 at 10:16 am
SpursFanSteve,
Yikes! SpursFanSteve — It should probably SpursHomer. Its no doubt the magnitude of Pop’s achievements and coaching history. However, it does not give him the right to violate and assault the basketball intelligences of the SpurNation.
In my opin - It does not take a coach with 25+ years of experience in the biz 3/4 of a season to establish a rotation. Further, some of the combination that he experimented with were absolutely ridiculous. Bonner and Bogus would not start for any other team in the league and would really struggle to get minutes. Bogus is not a 25+ mins per game player in the NBA. SpotFanSteve, are you really telling me that you send someone like Hairston down to the D league because you can not find any PT for him, yet you give Bogus 25+ mins per game. Maybe it would be different if Hairston was a rook, but he is a second year player whom you have already spent the better part of the previous year grooming - he has been to (2) Spurs training camps so at this point, you either know this guy can play or he can’t. Clearly, he brings more to the table then Bogus.
Ok! - If Bogus is the teams D stopper, then when is going to stop someone? Every player in the league seems to get whatever shot they want on him and go to the hole whenever they please - are you kidding me! Again, the only thing that Bogus has in common with Bruce Bowen is a ball head. Other players in the league, beginning with Kobe, spoke very highly of what Bruce brought to the table from a defensive standpoint, but also, Bruce made himself into a 3 shooter whom the rest of the league respected — So who is speaking glowingly of Bogus? I’m waiting!!!!! - Let me help you, NO ONE.
P.S. — There is nothing derogatory re my email or screen name - it is just how your mind works, you should consider cleaning up your stinking thinking.
Love BB
March 21st, 2010 at 10:36 am
ChillFan - now your turn!
ChillFan, I am wondering if maybe you are Pop’s son in law! You might say that Oberto and Bruce Bowen were dead men walking, but they both knew their roles and played them to the hilt - Bruce was first or second team All D for several years - How many all D teams or honorable mentions has Bogus gotten in his 7 years in the league? That’s right, Boggie has been stealing money in the NBA for 7 years.
Chill, if you are married, I wonder how much cred your wife gives you for the things you did yesterday? I would bet she is constantly pounding on you to get better, to do better, to do more. So how in the heck are you saying that everyone should leave Coach Poppie alone because of his past achievements when he has been asleep at the year much of the year?
Pop, like every other man, suffers when they are uncertain and indecisive. The fact of the matter is that Pop was not only never sure about his rotation, he was never sure about the personnel whom he selected and whom set on his bench. If I am a young, talent NBA player I would not be so enthused about sitting on the bench and getting no time while watching guys like Bogus and Bonner play every night and not produce. It is highly unusual for 1/3 or your roster to quit on you halfway thru the season, yet this is essentially what happened. Whether you like it or not Chill, Pop has been a poor representation of himself this season and the Spurs have the L’s to show for it.
March 21st, 2010 at 4:56 pm
bigballs
March 21st, 2010 at 10:36 am
If you’ve seen any of my previous posts over the past couple months, you’ll notice that I’ve been, & remain, an adamant defender of Pop. I will not spend the time now to rehash my reasons in detail at this late date (go back and review my previous posts, if you care to).
My posts tend to use as much data as I’m privy to to support my arguments. I rarely rely merely on superficial opinion. I try to use logic and bring as many facts as I can to bare on the points that I make, and I also rarely comment in absolutes.
Thus, in response to your comments on this thread, I will list of a number of “generally” agreed upon premises and or facts (i.e., it is common knowledge, and most people [fans & professionals] would agree with them) that are based on deductive reasoning. I would like to appeal to and put the focus of our communications on logic as opposed to emotions. If you respond to my comments, please do so using basic reasoning, and staying away from absolutes would be helpful.
Generally agreed upon premises:
(1) PLAYERS are “more” responsible for winning games and championships than COACHES (“more” does not mean “entirely”, but means more than 50%, probably much more).
(2) 99 to 100% of “fans” do not have even one half of the “data/information” necessary to make anything close to definitive statements about whether one player plays over another (by the way, I’ve made a few rather detailed comments since the all-star break outlining my argument for trying Hairston in Bogans role - this argument, however, was not and could not be definitive because of my inherent lack of information, and even my lack of sufficient basketball knowledge as a fan).
(3) “Box Scores” and “game time observations” do not allow ANYONE to form a sufficient opinion as to whether one player plays over another (not even professional coaches, if that is all the info that they were privy to, let alone any “fan”).
(4) After being the winning coach of four NBA championship teams over the past eleven years, it is HIGHLY unlikely that Gregg Popovich has this year suddenly lost his ability to perform effectively as coach of the Spurs.
(5) NBA coaches are not solely or even prohibitively in charge of selecting player personnel, but instead the process is a significantly collaborative consensus among scouts, coaches, and the front office, which by the way, take into account a myriad of factors, not the least of which is cap restrictions & luxury tax considerations (e.g., did we get Bogans because we thought his was Bowen II, or was he the best price/quality ratio we could afford at the time?).
Please provide logic if you disagree with any of these premises. If you do not, please look to see how any of the listed premises invalidate some of your comments within this thread. For example, you say “Pop was …….. never sure about ‘the personnel whom he selected’ and whom set on his bench.” This comment is invalidated by premise number five above.
March 21st, 2010 at 6:12 pm
+1 for Jim.
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:36 am
Jim , I see you are at it again. Putting out your piondexter reasoning and stat based opinions, and actually thinking that you are somehow, wiser than the rest.
Have you ever played organized basketball at any level Jimmy?
You dont need 3 years, a bucket filled with stat sheets, or a thesarus, to understand basketball or to rate basketball players. Us poor ol common folk can form a resonable opinion of a player by simply watching him play.
I supported this coach, as do you, for quite some time. But, he gets no free pass, just as players dont.
Without sounding overly critical, Pop made decisions during the Atlanta game that cost us the game. It has become common.
Though he has always preached defense,
He is Playing Bogans 25 minutes, when he was clearly getting skull drug by everyone that he attamped to guard. Doesnt matter how closely I watch him, I see nothing in his game. He is not a lock down defender. He is barely average as a defender. Crawford and Joe Johnson treated him like a high school junior out there. Offensively, he is D league at best.
Then there is his son, Bonner. He decides to play Bonner over Mcdyess down the stretch. Mcdyess was playing better defense and rebounding the ball. With Atlanta getting far too many 2nd chance opportunities already, playing Bonner at that juncture was completely useless.
In a heated contest, comming down to the wire, defensive intensity is high and wide open looks are few. Knowing that Bonner cant attempt a contested 3, doesnt rebound well, doesnt defend well, why play him instead of Mcdyess at that point?
Hairston and Mahinmi would have been effective against this team in spots and would have changed the outcome.
Playing George Hill over 40 minutes because you dont see Mason or Hairston as a friend, is also ridiculous. Hill was clearly gassed.
I dont agree with everything bigballs had to say, but I certainly agree that this coach has allowed his personal preferences interfere with winning games. He seems to have lost himself.
This coach actually seems to think that he can get by without help in the frontcourt. He thinks that Jefferson is the answer to the teams rebounding woes and that Jefferson can actaully make up for Bonners lack of effective traditional power forward type play. He cant.
Sadly, he will probably continue to play Bogans and Bonner big minutes during competitive games.
Dont need to be an NBA analyst to realize that it simply will not work..
Last nights latest addition to the loss column demonstrated that, yet again.
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:56 pm
BALLHOG
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:36 am
Just FYI, I’ve played four years of organized basketball, AND I’ve been an avid fan & student of the NBA for decades.
So, I’ll ask again, do you agree with the five premises that I listed in my previous post? If so, please say so. If you agree with the premises, do any of your previous statements about Pop contradict any of the premises?
Also, there’s nothing unusual about employing logic and factual data to support an argument. In fact, without such support, arguments based merely on personal observation are inherently substantially weaker. This is only common sense.
And by the way, no knowledgeable, reasonable observer of the game would “definitively” assert the following:
“Pop made decisions during the Atlanta game that cost us the game.”
There were in fact NO blatantly obvious coaching errors that Pop made in the Hawk game that could possibly lead one to reasonably, and with great confidence, make such a declarative statement. NONE. If you know of any, please specifically identify, and the provide sufficient evidence to back up your claim.
Finally, why do you seem to need a scapegoat for whenever the team loses a game? And why is that scapegoat inevitably wind up being Pop?
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