Tuesday, March 23rd, 2010...10:40 pm
Creationism vs. Evolution: Spurs get front row look at the Kobe-Lebron debate
Texas is no stranger to intense debates, having long been the national hotbed for our public education system’s creationism vs. evolution discussion. Over the next few days a different sort of debate will play out in the AT&T Center, one that still challenges longstanding values and beliefs.
Kobe Bryant or LeBron James, which one is the best player in the NBA?
Ask Tim Duncan, who at one point in his career could make a pretty convincing argument for himself, and he’d probably answer Kobe on Wednesday and LeBron on Friday. As far as opponents go, the San Antonio Spurs will never face better players in consecutive games.
And Texas may not ever again be privy to as heated a sports debate.
For all the high-flying wings that have been built up as the next air apparent, from Grant Hill and Vince Carter to Tracy McGrady and Dwyane Wade, it’s been Kobe Bryant who has come closest to Michael Jordan.
His career arch mirroring Jordan-transforming from high-flying scorer to coldblooded midrange tactician-Bryant has been mistakenly labeled at times as the greatest player throughout the past decade.
Michael Jordan is the best that ever played. Kobe Bryant is the player that most closely resembles Michael Jordan. Therefore Kobe Bryant is the best player in the NBA.
It’s a logical and somewhat comforting argument. One that certainly works within the framework of what we know and value in today’s NBA, namely that the league’s best player fits into the mold of 6-6 swingman with a 40-inch vertical and acrobatic grace.
But much like creationism sufficed in explaining our origins before being supplanted by the theory of evolution, a new player is laying claim to being the world’s greatest basketball player. But because LeBron James plays nothing like Michael Jordan, it’s called into question NBA fans faith and created quite a stir.
Just read Henry Abbott’s argument on last season’s TrueHoop discussion:
He just doesn’t move like the best basketball player in the world. Put almost any part Kobe Bryant’s game in super slow motion, and you’ll see beauty. Every little part of his game is refined, perfected, tested and honed … Put LeBron James clips in super slow motion, and you’re liable to find things here and there that he could do a little better. That footwork, that release, that way that he walks a little bit like a duck.
This is where the debate gets heated. What, exactly, should the NBA’s greatest player look like?
Ungenerously listed at 6-8 and 250, Lebron’s physique is closer to Karl Malone than Michael Jordan’s. His style, while jaw-dropping, is more violent than creative, more raw than refined. As Abbott said, it lacks the level of artistry of Kobe Bryant, or his template, Jordan. It’s as if someone took a young Shawn Kemp and gave him Magic Johnson’s skills.
Bryant fits our comfort zone as the greatest difficult shot creator/make in the NBA. In this regard, he may even surpass Jordan. He also probably has the most expansive skill set in the history of the league. This is why when it comes to discussing last shots, most people would want Bryant.
But as Bill Walton use to say, never mistake activity for achievement. Or in this case, skill set for dominance.
Whereas Bryant might be able to execute an intricate series of feints and jabs before rising up for a jump shot over two defenders, LeBron James simply blows by the fastest perimeter defenders and overpowers the best front lines.
LeBron James does not have Kobe Bryant’s skill set, quite simply, because he does not need it. The NBA may be defined by creativity, but it’s ruled by dominance. For all his gifts, Kobe Bryant will never physically be able to do what LeBron can.
At heart, basketball is a simple game ruled by efficiency and intelligence. Bill Russell epitomized this, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird put their own unique flairs on it, and Jordan eventually embraced it and become the greatest player of all time.
Even the greatest two players of the post-Jordan era, Shaq and Tim Duncan, understood this. And despite being un-Jordanesque visually, James owns it in a package of skills and physically ability the world has never seen before.
For those fortunate enough to be in the AT&T Center the next two games, bare witness and let the debate continue.
76 Comments
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:59 pm
It depends on the day.
Kobe couldn’t get to the finals without Shaq. He finally made it with hmm, another big man, Gasol. GASOL is so underrated in his importance to the LAkers.
Lebron made it to the finals with, Big Z??
By those standards you give it to LBJ.
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:34 pm
Both have their reasons for being better. As a closer, I’d rather have Kobe. I think Kobe/Duncan > Lebron/Duncan if you paired the two together on a team with some support.
Kobe is like a more dynamic than Duncan (if he had athleticism and was a guard), but they share a lot of the core strengths in their game (even if it doesn’t look the same).
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:38 pm
haha,
Does anyone in their right mind think that Shaq could have made it to the finals or won it without Kobe? Who got the ball when the game was on the line during the 4th quarter and overtime, Shaq or Kobe? I’ll answer it for you, KOBE. Their usage rates were very similar throughout the 3-peet years. Anyone who claims such as the above is using an excuse to justify emotions. The emotion being hating Kobe and the excuse being finding some ridiculous nonsense “reason” to do so. Anyone using the above argument, i wonder why they don’t attempt to denigrate Magic Johnson for playing with Kareem Abdul-Jabar, perhaps the greatest player of all time. Did magic win 5 since he did play with Kareem who was “the first option?” No one in their right mind would say such a thing, yet they blurt out idiotic comments like Kobe couldn’t do it without Shaq.
Here is the truth, no one can do it alone.
The funniest thing is that you changed WINNING an NBA title to “getting” to the NBA finals, lol. Why i wonder? Oh yeah, perhaps because Lebron hasn’t won an NBA finals. So now the level of achievement is simply getting to the NBA finals? If so, then Kobe has been there 6 times this decade…what’s that like 60% of the time?
lol. what far lengths some will go.
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Whatever its all about Duncan.
March 24th, 2010 at 12:25 am
Hey, we talking about the best play in the mba, not a team thing. Kobe got those championships because of shag, pau and all others. Lebron is a one man team not until this year that he have some good help but even that kobe still have a better team line-up today than Lebron. Shag is old and slow right now when compare at the his lakers time which he was the dominated force and won final mvbs not kobe. So Lebron is by far the best player of the game we have ever witness, even jordon in his era cannot match jame’s skills in every part of the game. Kobe has out of the picture already.
March 24th, 2010 at 3:07 am
I can’t believe myself saying this, but seeing kaveh ranting is kind of refreshing after all that BS about coaching & personnel issues in comments section of the previous posts.
I’d be happy if the Spurs can get one win out of the two (preferrably against LA).
March 24th, 2010 at 4:41 am
@ Ian,
Some of us feel that Pop has lost it. That his methods, though effective in yesterday’s NBA, are no longer effective now.
The league is much more athletic now. It is the reason that scrubs like Bogans cant accomplish anything on the floor.
His weak offensive sets no longer work. There is prctically no movement without the ball What he has accomplished is to make this a one dimensional, jump shooting team.
How may games do we need to watch inwhich the Spurs start off playing well, then the scoring slump begins? Spurs end up going 5 to 8 minutes in a quarter without scoring, especially without TP.
With any other coach, after seeing this happen repeatedly, adjustments would be made.
This team has demonstrated all year that they are not very good defensively and lack size and rebounding in the frontcourt.
No zone, no adjustments. Players quitting half way thru season, bad personnel decions, classless yelling and chastising of players on national TV.
Finally, and this is the thing that really pisses me off about this coach,
Playing ineffective players extended minutes.
People talk about Hairston and mahinmi not being ready, or not being good enough to play.
Come on man…Bogans is D League at best and might not excel there. Bonner is a step up from Bogans, can contribute, but gets far too many minutes. 12 a game should be his max unless he is scoring the ball consistently.
The real icing on the cake is that Pop could have brought in the help that we needed. Instead, he signs Jackson and Temple.
How about Dewayne Jones and Curtis Jerrels? This coach consistenly brings in players that cannot contribute over guys that can play.
Some of us are fed up with Pop and his antics and we voice that frustration.
To be atacked for it with bitchy and disrespectful posts and stabs is ridiculous and soft.
Man Up Ian…..This is the 48….Take that weak BS back to the ESPN site where it belongs. It is loaded with Jim Henderson and Ian types. You would be right at home.
Now, back to Spur Nation….
March 24th, 2010 at 5:00 am
“How may games do we need to watch inwhich the Spurs start off playing well, then the scoring slump begins?”
NONE!! Just turn the TV off or watch some other show.
March 24th, 2010 at 5:22 am
I would think long and hard about the whole “makes his teamates better” thing, and look at the actual ‘winning’ time of the basketball game, and then add the resume of week- in week- out achievements ( stats, anchoring a team, leadership etc) in order to come up with the best players in the league. Most of the other stuff is window dressing. Using this info I rate the top current players in the league as follows:
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
these guys are in a league of their own. next is debatable in order but i just group them in the same tier of value
Nowitzki
Melo
Duncan
Durant
Ginobili
Nash
Paul
Pierce
Roy
Billups
Howard and then you got a bunch of guys like
Stoudermire
Gasol
Carter
Williams
Davis
Martin
Kidd
Parker
Bosh ( he is overrated )
Jackson
Johnson and maybe one or two others i have forgot
then
J.Smith
Artest
A.Jefferson
Deng
Terry
West
Bogut
the bulls pg a can’t think of for some reason
etc
I’m sure there are people im missing, but if you look at the way they are grouped, the players near the top aren’t all-league stat leaders….some just have so much impact on the game, whereas some guys like bosh sit lower because despite the obvious tools, the overall package delivered to their respective team does not equate to a whole lot of winning without the right pieces helping out. I also leave out alot of these weak team standouts, because looking at guys like RJ as a prime example at milwaukee, it artificially skews the true value of players when they get 20 shots a game with no real pressure.
I put Ginobili that high because I look at the 2 rings since Robinson departed, and he had his hands all over them, as he does right now, bringing the spurs into some sort of contention with his will.
March 24th, 2010 at 5:24 am
@ITGuy
Posts like that….Useless.
March 24th, 2010 at 5:33 am
I have a respect for the talent, skill and gamesman ship of both Kobe and Lebron - Even Jordan- But that’s where it ends for me.
This thing these guys are the greatest ever, I just don’t agree with. Jordan really benefited in his prime by being the only real gamer in the game. If you recall, when Jordan came into the league, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Gervin, Dr. J, Bernard King, Big George McGinnis, Super John Williamson; David Thompson; Moses Malone and the likes were finishing up their careers, but still playing at a fairly high level through 84-86. Magic and Bird played a few more years beyond 84-86 and into the early 90’s. For the first 7 years of his career, Jordan got schooled. Yeah, he got his points and was young and athletic vs older men, but he was not dominating until the real Bballer’s left the game. Into this void, his legend was built by the NBA and Nike. Witness his Hall of Fame speech, Jordan still continues to harbor resentment towards all the guys I mentioned above because of how they dogged and refused to roll out the red carpet to his greatness. Even with the Nike thing, Gervin was the first big Superstar that wore the swoosh and raised its visibility in the inner city, not Jordan.
So it is with, Kobe and Lebron - No questions about their talent and skill, but the best ever - No Way - Just the best of the current bunch.
Personally for me, having seen all of the ABA years and the NBA of the late 70’s; 80’s and 90’s - both Kobe and Lebron would have only been VERY good players amongst the best of the real ballers, but nothing more. Glad I was there, saw it with my own eyes, so I am not really swayed by all of the Kobe and Lebron hype. I appreciate what they bring to the table, but this talk of being the greatest of all times — lets put the breaks on that!
A REAL BALLER — FOR YOUR OWN EYES:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI
http://en.kendincos.net/video-tdvrjdj-227-s-youtube-iceman-george-gervin-44-ice-nba-san-antonio.html
http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/727/879836?cpt=8&title=pavoldi_broadcast_local&wpid=311
March 24th, 2010 at 5:38 am
@ Easy B
Impressive list…Top 10 are dead on.
and you couldnt be more correct….
Players play.
March 24th, 2010 at 5:41 am
I would have to say, as much as I personnaly dislike the guy, that Kobe is the better player.
I was explaining this to my 8 year old son last week.
If I (25, 6′3, 200), was playing agains a 9 year old boy and won, it wouldnt be that big of a deal, because i am more physically inclined to win. If the 9 year old beat me, it would take much more skill than if I were to win. If you cant tell, Kobe Bryant is the 9 year old and I was referring to myself as LeBron.
I am not trying to take anything away from LeBron, but he is a mere physical specimen of what you would require to obliterate the best athletes in the world, and Kobe is not.
While Kobe has more than dominated this position for 13 years, LeBron has yet to win a ring. I have said this before on this site and caught alot of flack, but i doubt that LeBron will play for more than 10-12 years. Players who rely so much on their athleticism lose 50% of their game after 12 years. Think Shaq, David Robinson, Karl Malone, Shawn Kemp, and yes Timmy D. They are still effective, but not remotely as dominant.
The way I see it; to go down in history as one of the best, you have to win a championship while being the best person on your team. There are of course, exceptions to this rule. You will have your Stocktons, and Nash’s, and Kidd’s of the league. Kobe has done this, Timmy has done this, Shaq has done this, LeBron has not.
March 24th, 2010 at 5:44 am
Trolling is useless as well.
March 24th, 2010 at 5:49 am
Junierizzle you have to understand that Lebron made it to the Eastern Finals. Western Conference I would have to say is a much more tougher conference than the East that year.
I would choose Lebron as a better player. Although as a fan I would choose The Black Mamba!
March 24th, 2010 at 5:50 am
“Some of us feel that Pop has lost it. That his methods, though effective in yesterday’s NBA, are no longer effective now.” ~ BALLHOG
March 24th, 2010 at 4:41 am
what, you mean like this?
http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/03/09/the-spurs-execute-but-cant-finish/
oh yeah, that play stinks. i’m sure you could come up with much better.
look, no one started attacking you personally until you started your cocky, macho bravado and charmingly accused others of being “poot sniffers.” if you could make a convincing rebuttal to anything anyone at all brings up, you might have more credibility, but having failed that, you predictably whine and rail.
your position even contradicts itself. the players you mention, jones, jerrells, hairston, and mahinmi, may be athletic, but have yet to prove they are reliable basketball players. there are countless uber-athletic people out there who didn’t make the show because they couldn’t figure out the game. you blast bonner and bogans (who i’m not a big fan of either), yet you rave about players whom the rest of the league have deemed unfit to play significant minutes for them. do you expect them to deliver us a championship? i assume so, by your advocacy, from which i can only conclude that you’re far less capable a student of basketball than at first glance. do us all a favor and just watch the games, leave the analysis to those with a bit of sense.
this is the last post i will address to you or your alter ego.
March 24th, 2010 at 6:00 am
The Kobe/Lebron debate is kind of like the Batman/Superman debate. Except in this case, Batman has a bunch of championships and Superman got swept in the Finals by the Terminator.
@ Ballhog, I’ve just realized that you are Popovich, (!) posting comments with your typical self-deprecating sarcasm about the way you coach. Best way to deal with haters is to be the number one hater yourself! Touche`, Pop!
March 24th, 2010 at 6:08 am
@DieHardSpur-That’s somewhat one of my points. In saying Kobe Bryant is the more skilled basketball player, of that I have no doubts. Bryant might be the most skilled player in the history of the league.
That being said, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that you would destroy your 8-year old son in basketball if you were so inclined. And that any pickup game, they’d pick you over your son. Physical dominance is absolutely a basketball skill. It’s why all things being equal, and Jordan being out of the equation, every GM in the league would go with an in-his-prime Shaq.
But for all this talk about relying on athleticism, you’re also overlooking that LeBron is an extremely skilled basketball player. And while both are cerebral players, LeBron most often makes the correct plays. (I think Bill Simmons said it best, Kobe knows what the right plays are but sometimes he simply chooses to do it his own way no matter how difficult).
March 24th, 2010 at 6:08 am
Lets see one player shoots 50%, gets 1.48 pps, 8.5 assists, 7.3 rbs, 3.43 TOs
The other player shoots 46%, 1.26 pps, 5 assists, 5.3 rbs, 3.14 TOS.
So one is a more efficient scorer and fills the rest of the stat sheet better. Yet people on this thread, even after reading the above post think the other one is better. Hmm, maybe they are just trying to reinforce the point of the post.
The only argument for Kobe is rings, but he produces less on court and Lebron has never had the surrounding talent Kobe has. Kobe had Shaq in his prime. This cannot be ignored.
March 24th, 2010 at 6:16 am
@ AP,
BALLHOG is not me. At the same time, he sure is getting more and more defensive as time goes on. I used to respect and consider his criticism. Now a veiled one line jab invokes a 12 page essay. Vent much?
My vote in the relevant debate goes like this: Kobe is the best through last season. Lebron will take over at the end of this season. Unfortunately, Lebron’s rein will be short-lived, as Kevin Durrant is the real deal. That guy has shares a lot of the best parts of both Kobe and Lebron, and is bound to keep getting better. I love watching him play. (That’s why I stuck Bogans on him for a significant part of last game. I wanted to see some of his stuff.)
March 24th, 2010 at 6:22 am
Last game of the western finals, the Spurs will face Kobe.
First game of the finals the Spurs will face Lebron.
Back to back.
OTOH, the Kobe ranking above is based on the past, not this hurt year. This year I have it as:
James
[big drop]
Wade
Durant
[big drop]
Howard
Lee
Bryant
Duncan
Bosh
Nowitzki
Anthony
(Ginobli at 27.)
Kobe still has the career lead on James, behind Duncan.
March 24th, 2010 at 6:30 am
Jesse -
Good comparison. If I had to start a team from scratch, I’d have to give the slight nod to Lebron. While his skills might not be as refined as Kobe’s, I think that as he matures he’ll be able to improve his skill set. Simply, because he’s so overpowering from a physical stature standpoint, anything he adds to his game (post up, etc.) is gravy. Lebron’s cieling as a players is higher than anyone who’s ever played the game.
People forget Lebron just turned 25 this past December. His best days are ahead of him. If he improves his skill set as Kobe did, watch out.
Either way, both players are unbelievable to watch. Buckle up Spur’s fans.
March 24th, 2010 at 6:32 am
Where does one start?
As far as evolving as a player, Kobe has demonstrated more dimensions to his game over a period…….as well as having more rings. I think he is the more cerebral player at this stage of his career. But we all know how long he’s been around.
Lebron is awesome. No one will argue that his raw, explosive, charging style as well as his ability to get others involved represent the prototype of all players to come, except Kevin Durant. The day will come when he leads his team to a title. I think this year is as good as any, but last year they looked good too. I’m looking for Lebron to develop his mid-range game into a new art form as Kobe and Jordan have displayed.
March 24th, 2010 at 6:46 am
Respect for the talent, skill and gamesman ship of both Kobe and Lebron - Even Jordan- But that’s where it ends for me.
This thing these guys are the greatest ever, I just don’t agree with. Jordan really benefited in his prime by being the only real gamer in the game. If you recall, when Jordan came into the league, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Gervin, Dr. J, Bernard King, Big George McGinnis, Super John Williamson; David Thompson; Moses Malone and the likes were finishing up their careers, but still playing at a fairly high level through 84-86. Magic and Bird played a few more years beyond 84-86 and into the early 90’s. For the first 7 years of his career, Jordan got schooled. Yeah, he got his points and was young and athletic vs older men, but he was not dominating until the real Bballer’s left the game. Into this void, his legend was built by the NBA and Nike. Witness his Hall of Fame speech, Jordan still continues to harbor resentment towards all the guys I mentioned above because of how they dogged and refused to roll out the red carpet to his greatness. Even with the Nike thing, Gervin was the first big Superstar that wore the swoosh and raised its visibility in the inner city, not Jordan.
So it is with, Kobe and Lebron - No questions about their talent and skill, but the best ever - No Way - Just the best of the current bunch.
Personally for me, having seen all of the ABA years and the NBA of the late 70’s; 80’s and 90’s - both Kobe and Lebron would have only been VERY good players amongst the best of the real ballers, but nothing more. Glad I was there, saw it with my own eyes, so I am not really swayed by all of the Kobe and Lebron hype. I appreciate what they bring to the table, but this talk of being the greatest of all times — lets put the breaks on that!
A REAL BALLER — FOR YOUR OWN EYES:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI
March 24th, 2010 at 6:52 am
@bduran
You can’t play the numbers card when discussing who is the best player…
2004-2005 Allen Iverson averaged 30.7 ppg, 7.9 apg, and 2.40 spg
2004-2005 Tim Duncan averaged 20.3 ppg, 11.1 rpg, and 2.64 bpg
NOBODY in their right mind thought Allen Iverson was better than Duncan that year. I’m just sayin’… just because LeBron has better numbers doesn’t mean he’s the better player.
I don’t like Kobe at all, and if I could have one of the two for the next 3 years, I’d take LeBron. Still, RIGHT NOW Kobe is the better player. Numbers don’t say the whole truth.
March 24th, 2010 at 6:58 am
So some people think Kobe is better than Lebron because it’s harder for Kobe to do what he does than it is for Lebron? Sounds like a personal problem to me, that shouldn’t even factor in to any basketball debate.
Duncan isn’t the best right now, but when he was in the twenties I’d say he was the best player. Better than a slowly getting fat and lazy Shaq and a young Kobe. Lets not forget that Duncan has always played in a system that is about winning championships, not individual awards.
If I had to pick one guy to build a team and win a championship this year, I’d take Lebron. That’s a moot argument too though, because the right role players can make a big difference.
So Kobe has more rings than Lebron, who has none, but MJ only has six right? Well doesn’t Bill Russell have thirteen? So does that make him the GOAT? Oh, but Bill played in a totally different era than Jordan? Well, how is that Bill’s fault?
I don’t think there needs to be the distinction of one player being the current greatest player. The NBA has a lot of great players, who all have different skill sets. I appreciate Kobe as a player, even though I don’t like him. I appreciate what James is, and what Durant will become, and I still laugh at the Blazers for drafting Oden.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:05 am
I really like bigballs post too. I agree with that.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:09 am
Sure. And posting rants about Pop, win or lose, is so useful, right? How many NBA games have you coached? How many rings do you have?
March 24th, 2010 at 7:42 am
I’ll vote Manu Ginobili!
J/k…..kinda.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:47 am
ITguy, ignore them.
As far as the Kobe/LeBron debate, I’d give the edge to LeBron, for his ability to involve his teammates. No man can win without his teammates playing well, and I think LeBron has a skill set that allows him to involve his teammates more so than Kobe. That being said, I can’t really hold my own in a debate against Kobe because of all that he has accomplished and the way he has consciously altered his game to maximize his aging body. I have to give him the utmost respect for evolving his game in order to stay an elite player.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:49 am
Lebron > Kobe
Kobe is a 1 on 1 player and probably not even the best at that. I’d take Lebron in a 1 on 1 match over Kobe.
Put those two in a team setting and I’d still take Lebron every time. He makes his teammates better, period. His defense is also on another level.
Give Lebron James Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest, Phil Jackson, and give Kobe Mo Williams and Jamison. I’d like to see who would win more games/championships.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:58 am
@Drom John, wait who is the Lee in your list, either I am having a brain freeze and am missing something or you are completly off your rocker b/c the only Lee I can think of is David or Courtney.
March 24th, 2010 at 8:00 am
Kobe takes a 1,000 shots a game and 99.4% of his plays are 1 on 1 fadeaway jump shots. I don’t like this player.
March 24th, 2010 at 8:02 am
Eric,
TD also shot 50% that season with 1.9TO.
Iverson shot 42.4% with 4.6 TOs. So it makes sense people would think TD is better, and the box score would support it. Efficiency is something that people dont’ look at enough. TD didn’t score as much, but he didn’t turn the ball over, he scored efficiently, blocked shots and rebounded. Allen Iverson did a lot, but he wasted a lot of possessions doing it. Right now Lebron is producing more and he’s doing it more efficiently, so he’s better.
Kobe’s best numbers, not necessarily taken from the same year (excluding seasons with less than 30min per game)
46.9% FG, 1.39 pps, 5.9 assists, 6.9 rebounds, 2.6 TO.
Good numbers to be sure, but better than Lebron’s numbers this year? No. Kobe’s best possible stats taken from his whole carrer still don’t excede what Lebron is doing RIGHT NOW. Lebron is better than Kobe.
March 24th, 2010 at 8:17 am
Chris Paul, LeBron & D-Wade (when fully fit) are the top 3 players in the league.
Then come the rest.
March 24th, 2010 at 8:46 am
The Kobe and LeBron debate… Not again!.. That’s funny.. Until Lebron Wins a championship then we can have this debate until then everybody calm down take a breather and enjoy two players at the Top of there game.. That being said Kobe Is over Lebron until he can win when it counts!
March 24th, 2010 at 9:28 am
my only request is that the “Greg Popovich” poster learn how to spell Gregg Popovich’s name correctly.
March 24th, 2010 at 9:38 am
Spurs vs. Lakes
SpurNation - Lets look very closely tonight at the following:
1) Keith Bogus, Pop’s defensive stopper, on Kobe.
2) Pop’s personnel packages and rotation. Pop will not be able to hide behind all of that “the Spurs System” nonsense tonight.
March 24th, 2010 at 9:54 am
The major problem with the Kobe Vs. LeBron debate is that both sides generally have a “case closed” attitude about it.
Lebron’s stats are crazy this year, it’s not even arguable that he has a peer.
Kobe’s got 4 rings. Ballgame.
It’s a little silly.
March 24th, 2010 at 9:56 am
My preference though? Right now I go with Kobe… because I haven’t seen an interview with him this year where he’s said “Well I’ve always been an unselfish player, that’s who I am” like I have with Lebron.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Well, we need to base our evaluations about the best player by what happens on the court. The stats clearly favor Lebron (his stats were ridiculous last year as well). As for the four rings argument, people, including me, have pointed out the problem with this. Teams win championships. So you have to look at surrounding players (cough, Shaq, cough). Also, Lebron is much younger than Kobe. Robert Horry has more rings than Jordan. These are definitely problems with the 4 rings argument. I’m still waiting for someone to tell me why the stats are a good comparison.
It seems to me when people start saying well his stats aren’t as good but he wins championships they’re starting to argue for “intangibles”. I’m pretty sure that Spurs fans arguing for Kobe’s “intangibles” is one of the signs of the apocalypse.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:11 am
LeBron is the most efficient player since Jordan(statistically speaking - just do the research - Kobe is not in the same league). Practically all of LeBron’s numbers are better than Kobe’s, except free throw shooting (LeBron shoots higher percentage 3’s, both get 1.7 steals, Bron gets about an extra block per game). LeBron has better clutch-time stats according to 82games.com (look for yourselves - not just last second shots, LeBron usually finishes the game before that point). Also, I don’t buy this argument that LeBron is all talent, little skill. LeBron’s passing skills alone make him a better all-round player than Kobe. If you see LeBron play in person, you will see some of the best mixure of talent and skill that you’ve ever seen in your life… at any sport.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Here is a question I’ve been thinking about for the last couple of games. Why cant Blair be used as a back up small forward? I realize the first response is going to be because of the Spurs’ need of an athletic forward, but with his height at 6’7, I think he would be better suited as a back up to Richard Jefferson. I also realize that he lacks a mid range or even a 3 pt game, but Jefferson at times has proven incapable of handling those responsibilities and instead has been directed into “attacking the rim”. Watching Blair, I know he can do this. Blair as a SF can dominate similar sized Small forwards, and provide additional strength and rebounding abilities, which he excels at. He is not going to do any damage on a big like Gasol or O’neal, which is why I believe pop has kept blair on the bench down the stretch, but why keep him there and waste his talents when instead he can be used to give the spurs some badly needed athletic ability at the SF position? Since he cant make a jumpshot, have him attack the rim like they do with Jefferson and crash the boards. Games like the Atlanta one showed how badly they needed someone in there to grab down missed shots. Duncan needed some help that Bonner couldn’t provide. And McDyess not being out there didn’t help. What he lacks in shooting he can make up for in rebounding and maybe some decent blocking. He has his youth and strength that we need to exploit. This would also give Ian the opportunity to fill in the void. I’m just tired of seeing Blair sitting on the Bench when Bonner is out there and missing his shots, which is pretty much his only strength. McDyess doesn’t make all of his pick and pop shots and cant keep up with the young ones. Im looking for some clarification by some other knowledgeable Spurs fans who might have some insight into this. He is so talented and is being wasted as a bench warmer.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:44 am
@ Kevin,
If I have to spell my name right, then bigballs needs to start capitalizing and adding a space between his first and last name. Being the accommodating coach that I am, however, I will grant your request.
The reason for my post, though, is that I am soliciting some specific advice from my online assistant coaches, BALLHOG, bigballs, et al. I know you guys have issues with the way I coach, so tell me specifically what you would like to see tonight against the Lakers, and I will do my best to accommodate your sage requests. None of this “call better plays” nonsense. I need specific, detailed requests. So far, all I get is that you all hate Bogans and Bonner. Note taken. General stuff like improving “personnel packages and rotation” is not helpful.
Here’s the chance you are waiting for, superstars! I will employ your strategic genius and we can evaluate how well you did after the game. Cool?
Thanks again for all your support (or calls for resignation, where applicable). Go, Spurs, go.
GP
March 24th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Bduran -
Jordan has 6 rings, self made.
Horry has 5 as a role player.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:55 am
@Blazada,
Excellent insight re Blair @ small forward. I agree, in certain sets and personnel packages, Blair has the feet, foot speed and quickness to play some 3 minutes. On the offensive end, Blair would be a mismatch for most opposing 3’s in the post area. The only problem is that Pop does not really feature Blair’s low post game — doesn’t call plays for him.
I think Blair really put his skill package on display at the NBA rookie game @ power, explosiveness, quickness, even a few mid range jumpers.
Great take Blazada!
March 24th, 2010 at 10:58 am
Blazada -
While I love me some Blair, him playing the tree takes away most of what he brings to the table. He is a rebounder and you take him further from the basket. I would bet that 90% of his scoring is from offensive rebounds.
Blair would get the ball stolen in a heartbeat of have to give it up if he was not in the paint when he caught it. Most other traditional 3’s would steal pressure it too much.
you are correct that in the bost he would annhialate other 3’s.
March 24th, 2010 at 11:01 am
DieHard,
Horry has seven, and if you think I’m trying to say Horry is better than Jordan please re-read my posts.
March 24th, 2010 at 11:34 am
I don’t think Blair has the lateral quickness to guard a SF. Blair has great quickness and feet for a PF - that’s why he’s such a mismatch against slower players. But at SF, I think the opposite is true. Just about every SF will be quicker than Blair on the perimeter. Defensively, I think you’d see other teams iso him on the perimeter, similar to what we do with TP when he has a big on him.
Like others have touched on - why would you want to take him farther away from the bucket on offense? Not only is Blair not a threat to shoot, but he gets his offense from putbacks and off the pick and roll. If a SF is guarding him when he sets a screen, defenders will simply switch. Sure, you might get him matched up on a guard, but then comes the double team which he’ll have to pass out of. If Blair’s on the perimeter, his defender is going to sag down into the paint big time as well. That’s really going to hurt our spacing and our slashers’ ability to get into the paint.
You want to put guys in a postion to succeed. Based on what I’ve seen, I don’t think the SF spot is a place in which Blair would feel comfortable right now. However, that’s not to say that in 2-3 he wouldn’t be able to play a little SF depending on matchups. I just don’t think that’s a role, as a coach, that you can ask him to play and expect him to be successful. In the future though, who knows?
March 24th, 2010 at 11:40 am
As a Lakers’ fan, I thought I’d pop in to make a couple notes.
1) To paraphrase FreeDarko, Kobe is the best basketball player in the world, but what LeBron does is something thoroughly beyond basketball - he’s simply not playing the same game.
2) Anybody who claims that they would pick Bryant over James when starting a team today is insane. There are a half-dozen players in the NBA I would take over Kobe, due to his age and mileage, maybe more.
3) I would note that statistics truly don’t tell the whole story even within a single season. As many of you Spurs fans note above, Duncan plays within a system built to win titles, not individual accolades (it’s done very well at that). Well, the truth is, the same is true of the Triangle offense, which heavily depresses assist numbers for its guards (only once in his career did Jordan have more than 6.3 assists/game, despite playing extraordinary minutes and dominating the ball). As for the rebounds - James benefits from guarding small forwards, and most of his rebounding advantage comes from that. Bryant’s ORB% (his # of offensive boards out of the total possible offensive boards) is 3.0%. LeBron’s is 3.1% - LeBron’s numbers come primarily on the defensive end, and I think it’s reasonable to assume are simply inflated (relative to Bryant’s) due to his proximity to the hoop on defense. LeBron’s greatest advantage over Bryant is his ability to score more efficiently, by doing so at the hoop instead of via jumpers. It is enough that he is deservedly the best player in the league right now - though not by as large a margin as pure per-game numbers suggest.
4) That said, to date Kobe has had a better career. Like it or not, the ‘rings’ argument does factor into this debate (it’s why Wilt isn’t thought of as the clear-cut greatest player ever despite having numbers that put EVERYBODY to shame). Also, there’s something to be said for producing at a high level for as long as Bryant has. Yes, Lebron is only 25 - but he’s playing in his SEVENTH season already - it’s not as if he’s new to the league and hasn’t had the opportunity to refine his game significantly. It will remain to be seen if he can learn to update his game as his physicality wanes (and it will eventually - the only question is ‘when,’ not ‘if’).
The last point I’ll make is that I think it’s ridiculous for fans of both players to try to denigrate the other in order to prop up their chosen preference. James, Bryant, and others like Duncan are some of the most wonderful talents the NBA has had the pleasure of displaying, and to try and downplay any of them for some e-preening contest strikes me as absurd, and a bit sad.
(P.S. - Jesse - if Simmons said the ‘right plays’ line, he was cribbing off of, if I remember right, Tex Winters by way of Roland Lazenby. I’m quite certain he didn’t come up with that, as it’s been thrown around in LA for a LONG time.)
Cheers, and good luck!
March 24th, 2010 at 11:47 am
All I know is JORDAN was 6-0 in the finals. Bulls would’ve won 8 straight if it wasn’t for the unfortunate passing of Jordan’s father.
KOBE:4-2 in Finals or 1-1 depending on how you look at it.
LBJ: 0-1 in Finals
March 24th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Interesting that so many bloggers on this site bow at the altar of numbers, yet say that Jordan was the best ever. If you go by numbers, Wilt makes everyone else pale by comparison: Career averages; 30.1 ppg, 22.9, rpg, 4.4 assistsper game. They didn’t keep blocks back then, but was considered to be at least Russell’s equal on defense. Didn’t get that many titles, but that was because he had the misfortune of playing on so many bad teams and back then there were no equalizing forces (salary caps). Scored 50+ points 118 times in his career. Not to mention how many times he “scored” off the court!
March 24th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
I love the debate.
I think we should revisit it after the next two games.
March 24th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
@ Bigballs…
Been a while since I encountered a fan of the Iceman. I was a huge fan. Guy weighed 2 pounds soaking wet, yet scored at will.
As for the Lebron/Kobe comparison, It depends on the standard of grading. Talent, skillset, rings, teamamtes, etc..can all be considered.
Before last season, I would have taken Kobe all day long. But, since then, Lebron has improved his jumper, its all that he was missing. Now, he cannot be guarded.
Lebron is the guy now. The King is that guy that is capable of playing all 5 positions on the floor. Defensive skills are flat out nasty, and his competitive fire is comparable to Jordan’s.
As for your comment on Lakers tonight.
Cant wait to see how Pop will prepare for this game. Luckily, Bynum is out. His absence improves our chances considerably.
With Bynum in the Lakers lineup, we just cannot match up. Dont get me wrong, we still dont match up well with this team, even without Bynam.
Hill will have his hands full with Fisher. Fisher doesnt have the foot speed to keep up with Hill, so he will try to intimidate him. We get to see if Hill has moxy 2nite.
The most intresting match up will be Jefferson and Artest. Looking forward to it.
Now, the question…Who guards Kobe? Putting Ginnobli on him will just send G to the bench early with fouls. Spurs cant afford long stints in this game without Ginnobli.
Hill is just not big enough to play Kobe, so if coach uses the same starting line up that he has been using, who gets the first stab at Kobe?
I sure that this coach will bring Bogans in and put him on Kobe. The outcome wont be pretty.
Duncan should be able to stay with Gasol without picking up excessive fouls.
Cant wait to see Bonner on Odom and Bogans trying to stay with Shannon Brown.
As for Spurs, Hopefully Hill plays well and the home crowd energy helps, but without Parker, this will be a difficult win to get.
As for the negative posts being directed at The Ballhog….Who are these newbies trying to bandwagon jump and get into the 48’s VIP?
The Nerve…..
I still say this new 2010 Popovich sucks!
He will prove me right again tonight. The pucker factor will be high…..
March 24th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
[...] The Fu Manchu: The Spurs play the Cavs and the Lakers in back-to-back games this week, which gives the perfect opportunity to reignite the Kobe vs. Lebron debate. According to Jesse Blanchard, it is a classic dichotomy of beauty vs. brawn. [48 MoH] [...]
March 24th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Ive been saying it for at least 2 seasons now. Matt Bonner sucks!!!!!! Spurs fans r to faithful. The guy cant rebound the freakin ball. Did u see Atlanta get like 20 plus offensive rebounds. Why did pop have Matt in there so long. Ian can at least rebound. bonner is only serviceable when hes hitting his 3’s. If he misses one or 2 he should be benched for the rest of the game. Cant wait till the offseason n bonner is not resigned.
March 24th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
BTW did i mention Bonner SUCKS!!!!!!
March 24th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
From main post, on LeBron:
“It’s as if someone took a young Shawn Kemp and gave him Magic Johnson’s skills.”
Great description, and that’s what makes James “scary good”. And I know it’s hard to believe, but he’s only 25 yrs. old and has 15,000 points already! Are you kidding me?!
Then, LeBron brings an all-around game that we haven’t seen since the big “O” (though Magic was also close). His passing, rebounding and “team” play are above where Kobe & MJ’s were at age 25. Lebron has been the focal point of his team since the beginning. Same was true for MJ, whereas Kobe had Shaq, which allowed him to win his first title earlier.
That said, I can’t consider giving LeBron the “best player” moniker until he wins a title. That’s just my view; whether it’s fair or not is perhaps debatable. So I’d say it’s a toss-up between Kobe & Lebron at this point. Maybe this years results will tip the tide one way or another depending on which of them, if any, wins the title? We shall see. To be continued……
andy
March 24th, 2010 at 5:50 am
AP
March 24th, 2010 at 6:00 am
ThatBigGuy
March 24th, 2010 at 7:47 am
Nice job, Andy, AP, ThatBigGuy!
Jesse Blanchard
March 24th, 2010 at 6:08 am
Great post!
Tyler
March 24th, 2010 at 11:34 am
Nice job on the Blair issue. Your points are so obvious it’s not worth me elaborating on. It’s unlikely the detractors will get it, though. Ho, hum…
March 24th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Add Curtis Jerrells to the team:
http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/spurs_sign_curtis_jerrells_100324.html
I am a bit surprised!
March 24th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
spurs have signed curtis jerrels:
http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/spurs_sign_curtis_jerrells_100324.html
March 24th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
@BALLHOG - Oh so you and your fellow WE-NEED-TO-FIRE-POP bandwagon are setting the tone of this blog? Wow. Did I miss Graydon, Tim & Co. announcing that their blog will be a place where people can have endless rants about the same topic over and over? Did I miss them encouraging their readers to insult others?
And for the love of god, do learn to write it simple - you don’t need to write an essay every time you leave a comment.
March 24th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
The team probably thought he’s worth an audition with thoughts of next year. Hopefully he’ll get a look in some blow-out games. The fact is, we don’t have a lot of salary cap room to play around with next season (i.e., we still MUST sign a solid, tall, shot-blocking big next to Duncan), and we could be a bit thin at guard if we do not re-sign Mason, Bogans, and even Ginobli, so I expect they want to look for a “diamond in the rough” (ok, maybe even “emerald”), that we might have a good shot at signing to a contract for “cheap” in the off-season. They probably hope that they can feel comfortable signing one (at most two) of the following guys if they decide they need to move in that direction (signing young, “cheap” guys to fill out their roster next season): Cedric Jackson, Garrett Temple, & Jerrells.
March 24th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Hey, all. Any suggestions for tonight’s game before I head out of the tunnel for warm-ups? (I’m looking at you BALLHOG, bigballs, et al.) I am thinking up putting Hairston on Kobe to start the fourth-thoughts? Again, more specific advice than “you suck, fix the personnel packages and rotation” would be appreciated.
Cross your fingers!
GP
March 24th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
@ Ian
Move on guy….
Great spot to post….Why poison it with useless verbal combat…..
As for the Jerells signing,
Jerrells has game. He is a gutsy player with a lil swagger for a youngster. Of the three most recent additions to the team, he would seem more likely to earn a roster spot next season. He could play now.
Finally, a role player who can play.
Coach might be starting to wake up a bit…
March 24th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
@ Greg Popovich
Dang, you want in too? Rookies….Please see Jim Henderson for approval. Only JimJim can fire heat rounds at the Hog.
However, You are a skilled stabber. I am wounded!
Your attempted sarcasm actually made sense.
Actually, Hairston is probably the only player on the current roster that could make Kobe work.
But, Coach Popovich, who is second to only Phil Jackson as a coach, is far too wise to pull an idiotic move like that. LMAO
Instead, he will do what any top 5 NBA coach would do. Put Keith “The Glove” Bogans on him, right?
With Bogans’ superior defensive skill set, Pop would be insane not too, right?
What do I know?
Cant wait…..
March 24th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
@Gregg Popovich
The post is true to Pop’s arrogance and egomaniac based approach to coaching.
It is about time that you have asked for some guidance as you have been adrift all season - you are a hall of famer based on past accolades, but you I can grade you know higher than a “D” at this juncture of the season but could very just fail you. After all, it was you who stated that if you could not and did win with the 2009-2010 version of the Spurs, you should be fired - Quotes from very on words.
1/3 of your squad has quit on you, so you don’t leave me much to work with.
As for tonight’s game - DNP - Keith Bogus. Don’t even waste minutes on him.
a) Bring Hairston off the bench as your first fill at the 2 spot for Gino and 5- to 7 minutes at the 3 spot for Jefferson - depending on Jeff is playing - may need Jeff to give me 35+ mins tonight. Dang Pop, this is what I mean, you don’t have a legit body on the bench to really get 3 spot minutes as you decided t let Haislip go. As a result, Jeff forced to play long minutes or have to go small at that spot.
Can mix and match Mason and give him a few of Gino’s minutes, if he shooting well - play Mason a few more minutes. If not, can’t really play him against the Laker’s as he does not match up well.
First 4 off the bench should be Blair, with Mahimi first up for McDyss at the 5 spot. Need 20+ minutes tonight from Blair and at least 15+ from Mahimi.
The SpursNation will be watching tonight to see your personnel packages and rotations tonight.
March 24th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Coach Pop’s current grade for this season is: D-
Why? Because the Spurs were picked to contend this year and really challenge the Laker’s in the west. Instead, look at this mess of a team, a team struggling not to be in the draft lottery. A team with no identity, no purpose. Just a bunch of overpaid - under producing jocks with an overrated coach.
March 24th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
agutierrz,
For those of us who bow at the altar of numbers, Jordan is king. So far no one has done what he as done statistically (at least since they started keeping complete data, so Wilt may have better).
bruin,
Jordan put up better numbers than Lebron under Phil Jackson, so that’s not the whole story. Also, if you want more fair comparisons you should look at wages of wins WP48. Those are based on the same box score statistics but adjusted by position to rule out things like it’s easier to rebound from the 3 vs the 2 etc. In general raw production is higher the closer you get to the basket simply because shots are easier and you get more rebounds. Of course WP48 tells a similar story. Jordan>Lebron>Kobe.
Rings do matter but to me the say less than the numbers, which is why I brought up the extreme of Horry’s 7 vs Jordan’s 6 (clearly everyone knows Jordan is better). Duncan has 4 rings, but he’s also had great talent around him. Kobe has only won with great talent around him. Lebron has had terrible talent around him until recently, so it’s not a fair comparison.
I think another example of this is the Garnett vs. Duncan argument. Most people claim Duncan as the better PF because of his rings, but for most of his career Garnett played on really bad teams. Clearly rings do not tell the tale in this case so where do you turn? When making the (likely pointless) attempt to rate great players I like unbiased production metrics such as WP48, although I guess it does remove the fun of heated debate if we all say “yep, he’s .053 higher WP48, he’s better”.
March 25th, 2010 at 5:01 am
@Jim Henderson
I think you have to view Jame’s numbers in light of the minutes he has played. Kobe has played:- 866 Games and a total of 37099 minutes whilst James has played 541 games and a total of 21872 minutes.
And honestly, it’s a bit unfair to compare James and Bryant at their current state when James is at his peak of his game and Bryant is at the twighlight of his career (which is extremely worrisome for James as you are supposed to iron out the wrinkles of your game when you hit your peak i.e Jordan’s mid-range game, knowledge on when to score/pass). Maybe, the whole question of who is better would be better put in a career perspective when both James and Bryant are retired.
March 25th, 2010 at 10:58 am
Ronald
March 25th, 2010 at 5:01 am
“I think you have to view Jame’s numbers in light of the minutes he has played. Kobe has played:- 866 Games and a total of 37099 minutes whilst James has played 541 games and a total of 21872 minutes.”
How does this relate to my post? What is your point, here?
“And honestly, it’s a bit unfair to compare James and Bryant at their current state when James is at his peak of his game and Bryant is at the twighlight of his career…….”
Well, I’m not sure what you mean by “unfair”. I wasn’t comparing them “now”. I’m comparing them for their careers up to this point. So actually James is at a disadvantage in this regard (not had sufficient time to win a title), not Bryant.
And furthermore, here are some stats based on 36 mpg:
James:
24.8 ppg, 47.5 FG%, 33.1 (3FG%), 6.2 apg, 6.3 rpg, 1.6 spg, .8 bpg
Bryant:
24.9 ppg, 45.5 FG%, 34 (3FG%), 4.6 apg, 5.2 rpg, 1.5 spg, .5 bpg
Also, while Bryant may not be at peak anymore (James may not be either - may be still on way up!), his drop off is very minimal at this point.
For example, here are his main stats for this year (again, based on 36 mpg):
25.5 ppg, 46.1 FG%, 4.6 apg., 4.9 rpg, 1.5 spg
So, in looking at this years numbers, and then his numbers over his 14 year career:
- he’s only had 2 years in career +27 ppg
- 3 years +47% FG
- 3 years +5 apg
- 3 years +5.5 rpg
- 2 years +1.6 spg
As you can see, drop-off is quite minimal. He’s still pretty close to his prime in terms of numbers. When including intangibles, he’s even closer.
……..”(which is extremely worrisome for James as you are supposed to iron out the wrinkles of your game when you hit your peak i.e Jordan’s mid-range game, knowledge on when to score/pass)…….”
If you’re suggesting James still has some “meaningful” weaknesses to his game that he hasn’t yet “ironed” out at the ripe old age of 25, I’m not sure what those are. Would you like to describe them for me?
“Maybe, the whole question of who is better would be better put in a career perspective when both James and Bryant are retired.”
Of course, this is true, but this it was not what the main post attempted to stimulate, obviously.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Laker fan talking about the Kobe / Lebron debate.:
Lebron’s stats are ridiculous. The problem is they have ALWAYS been ridiculous. Lebron’s stats in 2006 were better than ANY SEASON between 1991-1998 that Jordan had. Jordan wasn’t getting 7 or 8 rebs and dishing out 7 or 8 assists during the 90’s but if I ask you who you would take Lebron in 2006 (even in 2009) or Jordan in 1991-1997 I think I would know the answer.
What’s interesting to me is that STATS keep mentioning Lebron as the better player but we can all agree that the Rockets have some AMAZING secret stats that no one knows about yet Shane Battier, who famously gets reports on the players he’s guarding says time and time again that Kobe’s the best player in the NBA.
I find a general trend. Nerds say Lebron’s better, actual ball players and coaches say Kobe’s better. Lebron MAY BE BETTER, his skill set is insane, his athletic ability is through the roof, but the stats argument doesn’t matter. Big Z Was an all star in 2007 when they got to the finals, when the Lakers got to the finals in 2008 Pau wasn’t an all star. It’s not Kobe’s fault all Mo Williams and big Z are asked to do in Cleveland is catch and shoot jumpers. The entire Cavs team PLAYS TO LEBRON’S strengths. Big Z should be posting up instead of setting screens 30 feet from the basket. as an efficient low post scorer and 80% FT shooter he should do that but that would clog up the lane for Lebron. That is why Lebron’s scoring numbers go up whenever Shaq gets injured.
I think Lebron is a phenomenal player, and maybe even the best, but no way do I worry about stats. Kobe leads his team in assists every season, if he gets less than Lebron it’s only because he doesn’t dominate the ball on every possession and plays off the ball.
I have yet to find Lebron fans who don’t PERSONALLY DISLIKE Kobe. Because if they do, they’re appearing objective using stats to cover up their subjectivity. Of course asking them if Lebron is better than Magic in 85 or Jordan in 92 although be statistically superior will result in a NO, but somehow he’s better than Kobe? Does anyone doubt Kobe could lead the league in scoring anytime he wanted to? watching the passes he was making last night in the 3rd quarter does anyone doubt his passing ability is pretty close up there with D Wade or Lebron??
Lebron is amazing but its not his stats that matter, those simple box xcore stats (as well as PER) don’t mean much. If they did GM’s wouldn’t consistently choose Kobe to shoot the last shot when he’s shooting 29% in those situations or call Kobe the best on ball defender (as they did again this year) when he’s not in the top 10 in steals or blocks.
Lebron plays playground basketball, Kobe plays system surgical basketball. Lebron is more consistent due to Kobe’s injuries this year, and if you had to make a case for Lebron it would be his consistency that wins over Kobe rather than his RPG and APG numbers.
March 25th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Vahagn Mkhikian
March 25th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Nice post. Thanks for being honest that you’re a Laker/Kobe fan. In other words, you’re not trying to cover that you have a clear bias on the issue. That said, you do at least make a good effort at being as objective as you can on the matter, and in fact make some solid points in your assessment of Kobe & Lebron, in terms of their respective impact in the system they play in.
Of course, one should NEVER look at stats in a vacuum, and I know you attempted to downplay the “numbers”, but I’m sure you also realize that considering “numbers” is not meaningless as a tool for assessing & documenting how productive a player is during his minutes on the court. In particular, if the numbers indicate broad-based productivity it suggests the player’s impact on his team is greater, and probably suggests that the player is generally less selfish, certainly so as a scorer. And after all, the bottom line is: does the player make his teammates better, and does the “team” have considerable success winning “big” games against other elite competition.
By that criteria, in my view the jury’s still out on who is better, Kobe or LeBron. Kobe’s had Shaq (one of the most dominant players to ever play the game), and has had more time to win titles. That said, in my view, Lebron has enough talent to win a title this year and/or next year. Until LeBron wins at least two titles, if I had to choose, I would give the edge to Kobe. Should he reach that height, or more, than we’ll see.
“The entire Cavs team PLAYS TO LEBRON’S strengths.”
That’s true, but all teams play to the strengths of their star players.
P.S. I do not dislike Kobe. I have a lot of respect for his talent & accomplishments.
March 26th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
I find it very odd that everyone still refers to Lebron as raw. The guy has improved multiple aspects of his game the last three seasons. His three point shooting, post game, and free throw shooting have all seen relatively significant improvements. He’s around the peak of his athleticism but his will and mind for the game are also clearly exceptional. I’m not even comparing him to Kobe, it’s just obvious that his game is getting pretty damn well-rounded
March 26th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Also, I get that the Lebron/Kobe debate is heated, but it’s worth noting a key difference between it and the creationism/evolution debate: Kobe and Lebron are both rational, reasonable arguments that can be based on evidence for either of them. I mean, we all might have our opinions about Lebron or Kobe, but we can probably universally agree that the other side of the argument certainly has some credibility.
March 26th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Good points, Cody!
March 27th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Thanks, friend.
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