Tuesday, March 23rd, 2010...9:20 am
San Antonio Spurs 99, Oklahoma City Thunder 96
A decade from now, when NBA fans look back on the legacy of Manu Ginobili, few outside of San Antonio or Argentina will be able to fully appreciate or comprehend how great a player he’s truly been.
Career averages of 15-4-4 are hardly the stuff of legend, but Ginobili’s value is so beyond rudimentary statistics, and we’re not talking about Matt Bonner’s +/- niche. The otherworldly athleticism might not be there, nor the glossy numbers, but no player has combined the will of Michael Jordan with an inherent knowledge of what wins.
Ginobili’s box scores against the Thunder have ranged from blindingly hot to terrible, but from diving out of bounds to save one last possession to a crucial block on Durant, his imprint has been on each of the Spurs victories.
Visibly gassed, Ginobili had trouble providing his usual offensive genius late last night, missing a layup, falling short on jumpers. But it was again an unspectacular moment that may have made all the difference in what was the San Antonio Spurs’ biggest win of the year so far (as described by Jeff McDonald at the Express-News). Or you can see it all beautifully diagrammed and broken down over at NBA playbook.
Durant took an in-bounds pass from Russell Westbrook in the left corner, hounded there by Keith Bogans. As soon as he caught the ball, Durant saw Ginobili sprinting in his direction, arms flailing.
Making the correct basketball play, Durant, who already had scored 45 points, found the man Ginobili had left, Thabo Sefolosha, and zipped a pass to him, wide-open beyond the 3-point arc.
When Sefolosha’s shot rimmed out and Ginobili gathered the rebound, the Argentine dynamo exhaled.
“I saw Durant catching, and I preferred somebody else to make a shot,” he said. “I knew I took a little risk, but I just saw him really close to me and said, ‘OK, I’m going.’
The three-pointer could have just as easily gone in, and at the time Ginobili knew it. How many superstars would leave their man wide open on the 3-point line, based on an instinct, and risk being the goat for that night?
Ginobili does. Constantly. And save for one bad moment in a deciding playoff game against Dallas, his “risks” are so supernaturally successful that one could hardly call them risks at all.
Any objective analysis would tell you that the Spurs have no shot at advancing come playoff time, and yet, it’s hard to dismiss them entirely based on an unwavering belief that somehow Ginobili will find a way. Ask the Thunder.
And above all, appreciate this while you still can.
102 Comments
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:38 am
Ginobili’s game has one of the best combinations of effectiveness and entertainment value in the league right now.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:38 am
Winning an ugly game sure beats the hell out of losing an ugly game.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:44 am
If Manu had been this good much earlier, he’d have to be in consideration for the HOF. Alas, an 8 year career does not a Hall of Famer make.
He’s still damn good.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:45 am
He made the correct decision, even if the shot had gone in. Spurs had nothing left in the tank to win a road OT game. Don’t let Durant tie it. If the 3 is good, we get one shot to win or lose. It misses (better chance thatn KD missing his jumper) we win.
From this era, his stats won’t tell what an all emcompassing team winner he was. Much like Amare’s stats won’t tell how incomplete his play was.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:51 am
I disagree TBG, you have to remember it’s a Basketball Hall of Fame and not an NBA Hall of Fame. I would argue that Ginobili is perhaps the most dynamic, successful international player in the history of basketball.
He has won at every level while being a vital piece of each of those teams. He was the key force in the Argentine National Team that handed NBA players their first taste of Olympic defeat.
And there have been stretches of that NBA career when it could be argued he was one of the top three players at his position.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:52 am
Hello everyone, this won’t be about Manu because he defies words anyway, but rather about two common topics I’ve read about here.
Actually, in answer to ThatBigGuy, Manu will most definitely end up in HoF, because his career didn’t begin with his rookie year in the NBA, and because the awards and titles that he has won internationally make him a strong candidate at the first available year of eligibility. There is a world outside the US you know.
REGARDING THE “TRADE PARKER” ISSUE
As it has already been said here, the way the game is played in the NBA today, to complement your main pieces, you need a tall, athletic big who’s both a 3 point shooter and a versatile defender that can cover both post and perimeter players.
You don’t need to pay him stupid money and jeopardize your cap flexibility (Rashard Lewis, Jamison…): he can be a midlevel money guy, or an integral member of your core rotation (Odom). We were lucky enough to put our hands on Horry, and noone who understands basketball will dispute his value for the team results during the ’04 to ’07 seasons.
Today we have Bonner, and it’s not his fault, but he’s a poor defender.
I agree that Parker would net us the most if he were to be traded, but traded for what?
Because we all know that Duncan has no more than a couple of decent years left, so it doesn’t make sense to trade TP for a pick or an unproven player, because you would just break up the core and waste Duncan remaining time.
If you trade Parker for youth/potential, than you also have to re-sign and trade Ginobili too while he still has value, and really start over.
Trading Parker in order to improve the team now, only makes sense if you trade him for the kind of player I mentioned at the beginning.
Parker role as initiator, distributor and drive-and-kick guy could be replaced by a mix of Manu, Hill and a middle of the road point guard (someone like pending free agent Steve Blake).
REGARDING THE “POP CAN’T COACH ANYMORE” ISSUE
We may very well stay here and discuss whether Bogans, Mahimni and Hairston should play and how much, but at the end of the day the point is moot, because none of those guys should be part of the rotation of a title team.
The truth is, our team is not as good as in the past, and certainly not as good as the Lakers of today.
In order to compete at the highest possible level we would need a younger Duncan and have more talented players. Pop manages what he’s got.
In his first year back in the saddle at the Lakers, was Phil Jackson to blame for the team lack of success, or was it the acquisition of Gasol that changed everything?
During the 20 or so years in between Pat Riley titles at L.A. and Miami, was he not good enough, or were his teams not good enough to to win it all?
This is a blog and we’re all entitled to our own opinion, but claiming that Pop has lost it on the basis of him giving playing time to Bogans ahead of Hairston is a waste of bandwidth.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:53 am
Manu is a real warrior, no doubt, needs to get in the weight room though as it would only extend his endurance and career. Absolutely no muscle definition in his arms.
Both Jordan and Kobe, “eventually” saw the error of attempting play at the highest level and being a target every night with the upper body of a pre-puberty girl.
It is probably too late in his career to expect that he will ever develop and “off” hand game, but his I.Q is so high that he has actually been able to play at a very high level in the NBA with only “one” hand. The entire NBA knows that he is going left, but can’t do anything about it. Pop has even relies upon the one handed bandit to play a little point in key situations - Can you believe that? Its always scary to watch, but he usually makes something good happen.
Spurs will have to make a big decision is deciding whether or not to re-sign him.
This is the first time in about 3 years that Manu has been Manu. Hope he keeps it going into the playoffs because Pop needs someone who can make it happen, despite his sporadic and indecisive coaching this year.
No real issues with Manu as long as he keeps the turnovers down.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:01 am
“Any objective analysis would tell you that the Spurs have no shot at advancing come playoff time. .. …”
Can’t agree with you there. I think it’s still very possible for the Spurs to make the second round, particularly with Parker coming back. Sure, we might not be able to take the Lakers, but if we get a fifth seed (and, yes, I still think that’s possible) we have a chance against Dallas, Phoenix, OKC, Utah, or whoever lands the four seed come playoff time.
Granted, I don’t think we’re going to the finals or anything, but there’s a good chance we might not get ousted immediately.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:08 am
Go Spurs Go!!
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:11 am
On the telecast last night, Sean Elliott seemed to think that the Spurs misplayed that last defensive possession. He couldn’t believe that the Spurs left someone open for the 3. When Bill Land agreed despite stating the fact that Thabo is a 30% 3-point shooter, I was convinced that the Spurs had made the right play (as Manu usually does).
Great post. The only other thing I would add is that Manu also made some big steals and hustle plays in the last few minutes as only Manu can.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:12 am
Ginnobli is special. He has that competitive fire that is unique to a select few athletes. I agree with Bigballs that Ginnobli could really benefit from an offseason in the weight room. He could also benefit from developing his off hand more. The one handed player thing is a bit scary to watch sometimes. I still cant understand why Zach Randolph is still able to score. He is more one handed than anybody in the league since David Robertson.
Duncan and Parker could stand to pump a lil iron as well..
@ Francesco
Good post. However, if we cant admit that Pop has been awful this season, we are in denial. Its not the end of the world to call a guy out when he is under performing.
Sometimes it can actually have a positive effect on that individual. I hope he is reading.
As for your claim that he is properly managing the talent that he has…
Please elaborate. I see nothing of the sort.
In reference to your comments on trading Parker, you were dead on accurate.
Spurs solution is simple for next season. Duncan will need to take a pay cut in order to get Ginnobli signed.
Parker could surrender a dollar or two to assist in that effort as well.
But, to lose Parker or Ginnobli with Duncan down to his last legs, is a recipe for the ping pong balls. We would become the Nets.
Unless you can trade Parker for a player of equal skill, you lose.
If this coach and FO would have kept the roster intact from the start of the season, our supporting cast wouldnt have been so bad.
Those moves crippled this team. It will be 50 times more glaring when the playoffs hit and Duncan and Mcdyess get into foul trouble or get injured.
If that were to happen, we couldnt beat the Toros, let alone win an NBA playoff series.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:25 am
I hope my post in the comments section of 48minutesofhell can really make a difference in Pop’s life. Pop, if you can hear me, just give me a sign!
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:28 am
Great win, 2nd in back-to-back, on the road! Plus we moved to 6th place! And yes, no team in the West looks pleasant to face in the first round, but I (and I think this team) is more confident with a better seed.
GO SPURS GO!
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:29 am
That was a win for the 2nd game in a back-to-back. Not two wins in a row.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:33 am
I would take Ginobili over Jordan anyday.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:35 am
I would have to say that I am glad that I am a fan of basketball and getting to watch Manu play. Just like my dad said about “the Big O” and “MJ”, Manu brings everything to the table (except his right hand).
Dont get me wrong, I saw MJ play, I just couldnt appreciate it the way I can now.
On another topic -
Did y’all see Ian Mahinmi last night tearing it up? He was wearing a Serge Ibaka jersey. I believe that is the exact amount of raw raw talent that we have that is wasting on the bench.
I dont think he is our savior, but I believe with consistent minutes he would turn out to be an upgrade over what we have now.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:37 am
@Francesco
Good post. Especially: REGARDING THE “POP CAN’T COACH ANYMORE” ISSUE. I agree with most of your statements
I’ll elaborate further by saying yet again, that it wouldn’t matter if Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, Kiki Vandewegh, Barack Obama or The Pope were coaching. This team would STILL be where it is…….15 games over .500 with key injuries in the Western Conference ain’t that bad. YET AGAIN, it speaks volumes to the spoils we as Spurs fans have reaped the past decade. I can’t believe some would actually prefer Avery Johnson. Freakin’ kidding me man. Anyone else remember ’06 finals and ’07 playoffs with him at the reins? Poppovich would have coached both of those teams to the title.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:40 am
Bert
Your comment:
“I would take Ginobili over Jordan anyday”………………………don’t think so man.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:46 am
MANU IS THE MAN. He will def be in the HOF. I agree with Jesse Blanchard. “I would argue that Ginobili is perhaps the most dynamic, successful international player in the history of basketball.”
We should enjoy it while it lasts.
I love that play where he steals the ball and then makes the most insane bounce pass to RJ. IN THE CLUTCH.
On another note.
I for one wouldn’t mind if they slipped to the 8th spot. We all thought they would be playing the LAkers anyway right? So why not do it right away when everyone is healthy.
Two seasons ago they slugged it out with The SUNS and HORNETS. When they got to the LAkers they didn’t have much left.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:48 am
@ BERT
“I would take Ginobili over Jordan anyday.”
I think the fact that someone would even say that just shows how good MANU is.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:54 am
I would not take Ginobili over Jordan/LBJ anyday. However, I would take Manu over Kobe anyday of anynight/ 24.7
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:02 am
I disagree that pumping iron would extend Manu’s career or otherwise make him better suited to play basketball.
1 - Manu is very bony, was skinny as hell as a kid, and this that we see now is probably the biggest he can get. It doesn’t mean he’s not lifting.
2 - Think of Garnett and Tayshun Prince: wiry frames but until a serious injury struck them, models of endurance and peak performance.
3 - Think of Kirilenko: now that he has bulked up a bit his all around game has suffered. Apply the same to Manu. To play the way he does he needs to be as svelte and as agile as possible, not burdened by any extra weight.
@Ballhog
I didn’t express myself properly, I don’t think that right now Pop is making the most out of his players, but that, given the short and long term goals of the franchise, he can try and experiment, and the difference at the end of the year is going to be maybe 5 games. As long as we get to the playoff it doesn’t matter the seading, because eventually we would have to go through the Lakers anyway.
As for Bogans I too agree that he doesn’t belong, but basketball like any team sport is not just what we see during those 48 minutes… Maybe Bogans is the hardest working guy of them all and Pop, fond of teaching lessons, would rather play him than a more talented guy just to show everyone what gets you minutes… So if Pop played Mahimni ahead of Duncan it would be obvious to even the most casual fan that he’s wrong, but when you’re talking about the 9 to the 12th guy… lots of factors have to be taken into account.
NBA rules make it impossible to re-work an existing deal for less money, so no chance of Duncan or Parker making less next year.
Duncan’s deal is actually already slated to drop instead of going up anyway.
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:22 am
Will manu always be haunted for that Dallas play? we were losing by 20 and he brought us back in the game. If not for manu that game was going to be a massacre. Maybe we should remember that
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:33 am
I think tony is great, but maybe if we can work something like TP+ Thiago Splitter rights and ian or Malik for C. Bosh, we should do it. It seems hard but this is a nice package and toronto will maybe do it. Also, Bosh is a texan sohe will be happy here, Furthermore, we can re sign manu (for him is not about the money, it is about winning)
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:37 am
@Manu: Actually, I don’t think it haunts him at all. If anything, I think that play is a testament to his greatness. There are many athletes whose entire career would be defined by that one play (Think Buckner and the groundball, or Chris Webber and his timeout). With Manu, he takes these risks ALL THE TIME, and yet this is the ONLY mistake we can remember.
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:58 am
@MANU
Only if the SPurs never won a title after that. But they did, so you can’t hold it against him.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:01 pm
That’s a great point, Jesse. We can’t stop Manu from being who he is. He very well could’ve blocked that shot as he did and made a spectacular play as he did with Durant this year or Wade last year.
Another note…how about Roger Mason Jr. last night? Great stuff.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:05 pm
@ Jesse and Francesco
I had a good retort, but then I went through the Hall of Fame list and found several guys who played exclusively in Europe and still were enshrined, so I will now join you and agree that Manu is a HOF’er based on his entire body of work.
GGGIIIINNNNOOOOBBBBIIILLLIIIIII!
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:13 pm
To all those who say manu can go only left. You should read the below piece.
http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2009/02/16/do-the-spurs-play-moneyball/
Quoted:
“The San Antonio Spurs’ Manu Ginóbili is a statistical freak: he has no imbalance whatsoever in his game — there is no one way to play him that is better than another. He is equally efficient both off the dribble and off the pass, going left and right and from any spot on the floor.”
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:20 pm
@Francesco
Nice Posts. I agree on all points except having to trade both Manu and Parker. We could have moved Parker this year at the deadline and did not. I have said many times before that I think he is the one player we can afford to move of the Big 3 in order to help ourselves in the near future as well as down the road. I do not think we move him just to move him though, it would have to be a big time deal. If we got a deal and kept Manu for a few more years I think we would be in the hunt. Some people have said only sign Manu for 2 years and I do not agree with that at all. We could sign him for 4 yrs and be just fine. He will still perform barring injuries. (Think Grant Hill after his injuries).
You are dead on about the weight lifting too, anyone who has ever played basketball knows that the manner in which they lift weights is generally not to bulk up but rather to gain strenght without sacrificing their agility/quickness.
To Manu’s greatness, I think it says it all when a player of Kobe’s status states that he would love to play with Manu and how impressed he is with his game! He is also stated that in order to stop the Spurs you have to control Manu. Says it all doesn’t it!
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Manu can go right too. It’s not his fault they can’t stop him when he goes left.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Who are these guys?
Improving your upper body strength will hurt your game? What?
Comapring…With a straight face…Ginnobli to Jordan? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA…..GTFOH!
As for Ginnobli being a beast of a player, he is. But he is a one handed ball player. If I were defending him, he would have to get all he is going to get from his right hand. He is not alone. I add Randolph, the Magic’s Howard, Derrick Fisher, and even Stoudemire to that list.
Great posts though. Loads of entertainment.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:53 pm
@Ballhog
If you were defending Manu you would look like an idiot… Sorry if it souns offensive, but man, get real.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:02 pm
I second that Marcos…
It would be extremely hard for any normal guy to guard a d-league guy, much less Manu freggin’ Ginobili.
Ballhog - Manu Ginobili is the most widely decorated basketball player in the history of the sport, so yes, you can compare him to Jordan.
I dont think he is better, but that is one mans opinion. He is probably of latin descent.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:13 pm
is it just me or are thunder announcers ridiculously annoying?
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Manu Gino is able to consistently make drives to the hoop that I don’t see Kobe do. He has definitely put his own stats down for a team’s benefit. He could have been a high volume shooter like Kobe was without Shaq/Gasol, or like Allen Iverson, and averaged 25 to 28 pts a game. He’s an unselfish winner. Much better than most people outside of Argentina and San Antonio would know just because he was willing to play team, come off the bench etc. Same with Duncan a few years earlier - could have dominated alot more but chose not to for the team’s success.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Andrew,
I completely agree. I’ve never heard commentators whine so much about the officiating. They had something to say about ever bit of contact in a quite physical game. And it was like, the annoying, “Where’s the foul?!” type of commentary.
I can do that on my own without their help.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Ginobili because of his international basketball accomplishments and his NBA accomplishments
belongs in the hall of fame. There are players in the hall that were not the caliber of player Ginobili is. As to Mahinmi the more I watch the less I like. There seems to be a lack of toughness and physicality in his game.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:31 pm
THE SPURS ARE NOT ENOUGH FOR THE WEST……THIS TIME THEY REALLY NEED A BETTER “D”………AND RAJA BELL IS THE PERFECT FOR THE SPURS RIGHT NOW………POP AND RC YOU GUY’S NEED TO SIGN RAJA BELL………….!!!
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Ribanez -
Mahinmi is French, cant blame him for being soft…
lol
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:00 pm
@nba fan 83
Thanks for giving me the chance to read that article.
Conversely, here’s a very interesting recent piece about the dangers of relying too much on statistical data and loosing sight of the bigger picture:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/14056/will-coaches-listen-to-stat-heads
The Mavs were, especially in a 7 games playoff format, the best team by far and favoured to win, but Avery tinkered with an already unsecure team that could afterward never regain his original advantage.
@Regan
I respectfully disagree, Manu would not have been able to sustain a 25-point-a-game career, because that would have meant 38 minutes a game, and we know his body doesn’t hold up to those extremes.
This doesn’t mean he isn’t a winner of the highest caliber. In fact, taking into account the limited time he spent on the floor in the limited years he has so far spent in the NBA, he’s got be the winningest star in the modern era of the game.
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:01 pm
It’s about finding the right balance between bulk and agility/flexability. Each individual is different. That’s why some guys can’t handle the bulk and why it ultimately hurts their game. The idea that basketball players shouldn’t lift weights (usually comes from older guys) is not only outdated, but patently false.
If you look at Manu’s frame, he’s not the kind of guy that’s ever going to be able to carry much more weight. George Hill is in the same mold. On the flip side, you look at a guy like Lebron or Dwight Howard, they’re guys that can carry a lot of weight and not have it affect their quickness or athleticism.
I think Kobe talked about this last year. I remember him saying he had put on 20-25 pounds the year before to help protect himself from injury. He took it off the next summer b/c he thought it hurt his quickness (and b/c he was coming off of knee surgery and didn’t want to have to put anymore stress on it than he had to).
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Unfortunately, Ian is not Serge Ibaka.
Ibaka is much more physical. He is much thicker throughout his whole body. Last night he showed that he could defend TD w/o getting pushed under the basket. Ian struggles 1 on 1 when guarding heavier guys because he lacks the necessary bulk. He tends to get backed down by bigger guys and, as a result, tends to foul more.
Ibaka is also much more explosive athletically. His follow-up dunk and his block of TD late in the 4th are things that Ian would struggle to do. And while Ian is probably as mobile as Ibaka, Ibaka looks like a much more fluid athlete. He had good form on the few post moves and jumpers he took. I was also impressed with Ibaka’s instincts - the block on TD again comes to mind.
Outside of the physicals, Ibaka’s motor was better than anything I’ve ever seen from Ian. Last night, he was a human pogo stick. If Ian displayed that type of motor, I think he’d have a place in the rotation. But, he hasn’t.
Boil it all down, even though Ian has been in development for much longer than Ibaka, Ibaka is head and shoulders farther along than Ian. From his physical stature to his motor to his skill level, Ibaka was extremely impressive last night.
I understand Ian is still young by our standards (23.5), but by this time, Ian needed to show us something more than some decent garbage minutes. Considering he’s been in our system for almost 4 years (correct me if I’m wrong), he should be a regular contributor. You compare him to Ibaka, who is contributing in his first season, and the divide between the two is pretty stark. I’m pulling for Ian, but unless he really works on his body this summer and proves that he has the motor to compete every night, he’s not going to be back next year (or playing meaningful minutes for any playoff caliber NBA team).
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Joakim Noah and Ronny Turiaf are also French… are they soft?
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Careful now, Spurs Nation, lets appreciate Manu for his scrappiness and high basketball I.Q., but please no poot sniffing. This guys has room to still improve his game.
Its sort of like Jason Kidd. Terrible shooter all his career, now the scouting report will at least detail now that you can not leave him uncontested or he’ll drop it in your face. What does that mean? he got his overpaid tail in the gym and worked to really earn that $20M he has been earning for the past 4 or 5 years.
Manu is a gamer, just could stand to upgrade a bit in terms of the weakness to his game. Why? Because in the playoffs, the opposing teams focus more on exposing weaknesses, trapping etc……This always makes it more difficult for Manu and increases his turnovers and decreases his effectiveness. The lanes he gets to the hoop in the regular season, largely are taken away in the playoff, because in the NBA playoffs - you win or go home.
March 23rd, 2010 at 3:06 pm
What a bunch of Numbskull trade propositions
Time to get rid/let go of Bonner, Bogans, Jefferson and mason and pick up peices that can help us matchup out west this isnt 2005 anymore
March 23rd, 2010 at 3:29 pm
@ Bigballs
Welcome to the sight. You come off as if you have played this game.
However, lets not get too real in here.
If you point out that Ginnobli has flaws in his game you could cause a blogging uproar.
You have guys in here comapring Ginnobli to Jordan. When I saw that post, I had to have a drink and gather myself.
I am a G fan. I think he is a great player and one of the most competitive in the league right now.
He could be much more if he got stronger and developed a right hand.
His turnovers are always up in the playoffs because teams exploit that weakness.
As for my suggesting that he should get stronger, Im sure he knows that.
Maybe folks havent noticed his physical decline over the years. When he got here, he was heavier and stronger. Actually, this is the smallest that he has looked since he arrived.
He was playing far too much basketball and his body bears the miles.
Im sure that you can relate….
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:20 pm
I’m interested in the brain trusts’ opinion here: is there any reason why the Spurs shouldn’t get him locked up now?
I realize that we can’t know if this is the last productive stretch for Obi Wan Ginobili, but knowing his sky-high competitive fire and basketball IQ can’t be deterred with age, I can’t see why he wouldn’t be a key piece of our team for the remainder of the accepted 2-3 year window.
Plus, the thought of that man in another uniform because we decided he wasn’t valuable enough to justify the contract makes me want to puke. That is not an objective opinion on my behalf, which is why I will defer to the brain trust of authors and contributors.
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Ballhog -
I agree Manu could stand to bulk up a little in the future, but I have little doubt that his past ankle problems probably persuaded him not to. The last thing he wants to do is put more stress on that ankle than he has to. Similar to guys coming off knee surgery, the first thing they’ll usually try to do is drop weight.
As someone who has gone under the knife on more than one occasion, the less stress you put on a knee or ankle shortly after an operation, the better off you are in the long run.
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:35 pm
SAinSLC -
I’ve though about the same thing myself. I think both sides have figured to wait until the offseason to discuss his contract status. From the FO’s POV, they’d probably want to take a wait and see approach. You never know when an injury will strike. From Manu’s perspective, he’s probably so focused on the rest of the season that he doesn’t want any distractions. No need to push it right now.
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:38 pm
And as much as I like Manu, he’s not in Jordan’s league.
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:44 pm
@ Ballhog
Big ups to you. Yes, I played a lil ball back in the day and have always tried to be a student of the game. You are correct about the apparent physical decline in Gino. When he arrived in SA, he was much heavier - not a muscle man, but much heavier. Honestly, over the past 2 to 2 1/2 yrs, he has looked almost as if he had HIV or something, very, very thin - even balding now. Still crafty and very cagey - his high basketball I.Q. makes up for the deficiencies in his game.
@ SAinSLC
My take - Basketball wise, the Spurs should not resign Gino to a big money, long term deal. However, business wise, Holt and the Spurs probably can not afford not to resign him — Have you seen all those Gino Jersey’s @ Dillards and JC Penny’s in SA? They are all over the place! Not Timmy, Not Tony, All Gino baby!
Moreover, I do not know the numbers, but Gino’s Jersey’s are probably a leading seller with NBA properties in the International and Latin markets, even the impact of the large hispanic and latin markets in the within the US must be considered.
What is for sure, the Spurs will have to move some money off the books soon. My bet is that it will be Jefferson, then Parker if more $ needs to be moved. I mean despite the tangibles and intangibles that Gino brings, would you really sign him to a long term deal? He and his camp will probably want a 3 or 4 yr deal @ $10M plus. The money is not necessarily out of order, but I would be very reluctant to go long term due to the the G man’s health and physical decline.
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:45 pm
To Ballhog and Bigballs,
Indulge your fascination with balls, and find a room.
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:47 pm
Tyler
Lets talk Lakers my man….
Coach could run through 2 dozen clipboards prepping for this one, especially if Bynam was playing?
Without Bynum, Spurs should be able to stay in this game, with the right rotations.
How do we beat the mighty Lakers?
Kobe is comming!
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Hey guys,
First time, long time. I am a regular reader of this site, and come here for the great articles. The 48 team always does a great job, and I feel like these writers really understand my team.
But, what happened to the on-topic, logical, well thought out comment section? I used to look forward to reading some of the comments as much as the articles. I guess it is just a product of the site reaching more people.
For example, yesterday’s article…none of the comments were about what we should expect when Parker comes back. A nice, thought provoking article turned into a few posters, *cough* Ballhog *cough* bigballs, making the same dumbass posts. I try to ignore them, excited to read other peoples’ thought provoking comments. However, it just turned into smart commenters commenting about dumb comments instead of a good article and a well played game.
So, if certains posters can’t be blocked, I hope for my own selfish reasons that some of the regulars can ignore them. I will be looking forward to the excitement of the playoffs and will come here to get much more than the TNT/ESPN analysts provide.
While all of us are a bit let down by this year’s team so far, I think 99% of us realize Parker doesn’t suck. Pop isn’t an idiot. Ginobili makes Kevin Durant look like Olive Oil. Enough with the same bs trolling.
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:57 pm
? for Spurs Nation! After the Spurs release the young, strong, athletic, shot blocking 7 footer, Ian Mahinmi at the end of the season- how long do you think it will take for the Mavs, Rockets, Lakers or the Thunder to scoop him up?
March 23rd, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Regan Rahardja
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Very nice point, Regan. Unselfish “team” play is very underrated. And I agree, Manu & Tim epitomize team play with the Spurs (and could have “bigger” stats). That said, part of that results from an overall “team” philosophy that is strongly emphasized throughout the entire Spurs organization. Pop & Co. have been responsible for acquiring “team type” players, and also have deliberately groomed the young guys that come into the organization on the “team” concept.
And obviously there’s good reason to foster the true team concept, because if you look at all the great organizations over the years (and most championship teams), they all incorporated a strong team philosophy into their system. In fact, that’s one thing that has made Phil Jackson a great coach: he has been able to get “super” talented players to be better “team” players under his coaching. For example, MJ was a much better team player after he hooked up with Jackson, and it’s no surprise that it helped result in several championships.
Francesco
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Nice contribution to the thread. The following is the key quote to take away from the article:
“And that represents the closest thing to a consensus that emerged from this panel: The best decisions will be made when coaches consider advanced stats not alone, but alongside everything else — what their eyes tell them, what the film shows and the psychology of each individual player.”
In other words, of course you never look at stats in a vacuum. You have to take the “make-up” of your team into account before you make personnel changes to your line-ups and/or rotations.
Tyler
March 23rd, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Pretty solid assessment of the Ian/Ibaka comparison. From what I can see, Pop would love to have a young, explosive big that “plays under control” like Ibaka. Unfortunately, that doesn’t appear to be Ian.
On Manu:
- Obviously, Manu is no MJ. No disrespect intended, but that’s a silly comment.
- Manu is great just the way he is. We have much more pressing concerns to worry about than tweaking Manu’s game at this point. By the same token, I’m not much into idol worship either. As fans, sometimes we go over the top in praising our favorite players. No harm, no foul I guess, just not my bag of tea.
On the OKC game:
Hill was clearly the difference in that game. And not just the points. He had been playing recently like a deer in the headlights - tentative, timid, less confident, etc. That type of play out of the point puts a real monkey wrench in our system. But you know, there’s been A LOT of pressure on that kid since TP went down. We have to remember, he’s not a natural point guard. He’s more natural at the two spot.
I’m just very happy for him with is performance against OKC. With all the pressure on him against all the elite teams coming down the stretch, he came up BIG. He’s a key guy for us while Parker’s out, and I wish him the very best in the upcoming games!
March 23rd, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Ballhog-
“If I were defending him, he would have to get all he is going to get from his right hand”
I think we all got “Loads of entertainment” from that one.
On a separate note:
On the topic of training, b-ballers don’t train to get bulky and if they do, it is a by-product of the intensity of their training and that individual’s genetics. The object isn’t to bench press for max or do bicep curls for heavy weights, which have no functional carryover to the court. These guys are doing squats (ass to the grass) with 1.5xbodyweight, power cleans, and high level plyometrics to get explosive. Ginobili can cover half the court in 3 leaps. This dude is all type II muscle fibers which means he is skinny by genetics. Any training he does will be to enhance his natural characteristics, not make him look like something he isn’t. That block on Kevin Durant couldn’t have happened without years of training. Just because he doesn’t have big biceps doesn’t mean dude isn’t in the gym.
Aesthetics are smoke and mirrors! Jordan’s program was NOT to “get big,” he wanted to get explosive and to train the joints that were susceptible to injuries. Jordan’s genetics predisposed him to looking like that, especially after training with Grover.
March 23rd, 2010 at 5:43 pm
@Jim
Nice, thoughtful post, and a good job staying in your lane. Very inconsistent with your previous post as it seems you had developed quite a reputation on this board as a clown, punch drunk on stats. I think most of the SpurNation on this board had begun to just ignore all of your post.
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:01 pm
@ Hemisphere,
What a feminine take on things. I have never heard so much mouth diarrhea in my life. You clearly do not wear the pants at your house.
I feel your weakness and overall lack of real confidence coming through your post.
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:06 pm
Bigballs
“What a feminine take on things. I have never heard so much mouth diarrhea in my life. You clearly do not wear the pants at your house.”
“I feel your weakness and overall lack of real confidence coming through your post.”
It’s pretty easy to talk that garbage holed up in your room in front of a keyboard. Just chill and talk basketball, not everyone will agree. Get over it.
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:22 pm
On the second to last play when Duncan got blocked, he should have dunked it. Duncan goes for the layup more often than not. This is not the 1st time I have seen Duncan getting a crucial possession blocked. Thankfully, it did not matter.
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:50 pm
@hemisfair
It is sad how quickly these comments sections went from unique with interesting and thoughtful conversation, to run-of-the-mill internet anger. At least the articles are still great!
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Hi, everyone. Enjoying my day off today, and getting caught up on my 48MoH comments. Thanks for all the input, again.
As far as Manu goes, I tell the press my favorite player is George Hill, but I wear my Manu jersey as a night gown when I sleep. With Manu, you take the flaws with the brilliance. Wherever he falls among the game’s historic elite, you have to admit there has rarely been a player that will have you dropping a deuce in your suit pants one moment, and .2 second later you are jumping around like a school girl when it goes in.
Lay off the “Ginobili should bulk up” bit. His problems have little to do with strength. Plus, I had him over in my wine cellar this summer building me a new set of shelves. I forced him to only use his right hand the entire time. That should do the trick. Hall of Fame coach? I do what I can.
Hugs and kisses,
GP
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:57 pm
@BALLHOG
“If I were defending him, he would have to get all he is going to get from his right hand. He is not alone.”
That is the dumbest/funniest thing I have ever heard in my life. LOL.LOL.LOL.LOL.
Everyone tries to do that but they still can’t stop him. HE’s good. Yeah, you really cracked the code to stopping Ginobili. You can’t even spell his name.LOL.(Ginnobli?)
I think this also proves my other point that you are just jealous of the Red Rocket. Let me guess, you got mad game??
Thanks, now I know to just ignore your posts from now on.
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:59 pm
I’ve been saying now for a number of weeks that Parker’s days with the Spurs may be numbered. This is especially true in light of the fact that he and Jefferson can’t seem to play together on any level at all. The month of March has been somewhat of a breakout month for RJ. He is now averaging the most points since December and has seemingly found a niche in rebounding while averaging more than 6 per game(even though he’s still vastly overpaid).
If the Hawks game showed us anything, it is that we MUST have another athletic 4 or 5 on the team to play alongside Duncan. It’s obvious that Duncan has lost some of the athletic ability he had when younger and desperately needs some front court help. I’ve said before that if George Hill can do only 60-70% of what Parker can produce, we would be better off with another important piece in Parker’s place. I’ve seen two different lines of thought on this thread: one is that Parker should be traded for 2-3 younger pieces and the other suggests that we need to trade All Star for All Star.
I would love to get back 2-3 younger pieces, but trading that many players gets complicated. Besides, how many teams have 2-3 really good young players that they would be willing to trade? If a team has a younger player who is producing at a high level, that player is more than likely signed to a cheap rookie contract. Teams don’t necessarily want to trade the cheap, good contracts for 1 player in return.
I am therefore led to believe that the only way we could trade Tony is if we trade him for an All star caliber player. (Keep in mind that in order to trade Tony, we MUST resign Manu and maybe get a pg in return) Here’s one option: The Knicks are fairly sure they will lose David Lee to free agency in pursuit of Lebron or JJ or whoever they are going after. I wonder if it would be possible to do a sign-and-trade with Tony and Lee and perhaps a knicks draft pick? The Knicks would get an All star guard to help them lure a HUGE name like Lebron or Bosh and the Spurs would get some front court help. This is only one scenario, but a sign and trade may be the best option for front court help especially with all the decent free agents available this summer. (And no, I’m not talking about a sign and trade for Lebron, JJ, Bosh, etc. thats not realistic.)
March 23rd, 2010 at 7:19 pm
I would take Ginobili over Jordan anyday
same here.
March 23rd, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Hemisfair
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Touche! Join me in ignoring the Pop-Bashers!
junierizzle
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Regarding ballhog, you say:
“Thanks, now I know to just ignore your posts from now on.”
This only makes sense, otherwise responding to them just ends up providing more incentive for their incessant and nonsensical rambling to continue.
March 23rd, 2010 at 7:27 pm
On the subject of Ginobili, found this interesting link which suggests that Real Madrid might make him a $13.5M offer next yr. I am sure Spurs will not come anywhere close to that. I am expecting the Spurs to offer him a 3 yr deal in the 24M range.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/03/real-madrid-interested-in-manu-ginobili/
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:20 pm
[...] Here is the original post: San Antonio Spurs 99, Oklahoma City Thunder 96 | 48 Minutes of Hell [...]
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Hobson13
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:59 pm
Hobson, I like your thinking in terms of looking for ways the team can get back to having a shot at contending for another title. I do not take lightly the thought of trading TP. He’s VERY valuable to this team. That said, he is without a doubt our most valuable trade piece that it at least makes some sense to consider. As you said, the main reason we have to look at this is because it’s the only conceivable way we can afford to get the type of big we MUST have lined up next to Duncan in order to have a shot at challenging again for the title in the Duncan era.
However, as much as I like David Lee, I don’t believe he’s the right fit for this team, at this time. The main reason being that he’s not a shot-blocker, and I think we desperately need that type of presence in the paint. The other reason is he looks to score outside the block — not really a good fit with Duncan. Also, Lee does what I’m sure we hope Blair develops into; a double-double machine. And further, I think we will also need a young Parker-like point (loosely speaking) with potential, which would allow Hill to continue as a hybrid point/SG - more at SG.
I think the trade proposal at the link below is the best option I can think of that might work for both teams. Dalembert is the under 30 yr. old shot-blocking defender/rebounder in the paint that we desperately need, and Williams has potential as a solid scoring type of point guard.
Let me know what you think.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjbxxaz
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:34 pm
I disagree, compared to most blogs or basketball forums this place still seems like internet eutopia.
I didn’t like Ginobili going to Durant on that last play when it was happening (made all the worst because I was watching the game online and the stream froze when sefolosha was taking aim) Even while he isnt a great 3-point shooter a wide open 3 just seemed like a mistake, guess its just another one of them gambles ginobili makes that make it seem as if the basketball gods are with us.
“Moreover, I do not know the numbers, but Gino’s Jersey’s are probably a leading seller with NBA properties in the International and Latin markets”
I wouldn’t be surprised, even here in Perth Western Australia I remember seeing a Ginobili shirt alongside the Kobes and Lebrons Jerseys, the only other SanAntonio Jersey being sold was Robinsons.
“But, to lose Parker or Ginnobli with Duncan down to his last legs, is a recipe for the ping pong balls. We would become the Nets.”
Just had to comment on that, no need to exagerate so much, even if we lose BOTH parker and Ginobili tehre is no way that any team that has a Tim Duncan in it even in its decaying years could ever be compared to the (potentially) worst team in NBA history, this is just crazy talk.
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:43 pm
@Nadeem,
Great post! Nice info reference on Gino, from a different perspective. Its pretty obvious that the Spaniards hold him in high esteem and rightfully so. Gino will have a big choice to make in terms of if he wants to stay with the Spurs, stay in SA. He could really have a nice life, after the basketball, like Geo Gervin. Geo just sits on his Hill Country ranch now just enjoying the fruits of his labors spread over 30 years, just being a LEGEND.
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:46 pm
most of what i’m posting has already been said, but i’ll toss in my two cents.
as a fellow lefty who’s equally comfortable driving right, i wonder where the ball/hogs (which by the way, i’m surprised no one has called at as the anti-spur name) get the idea that ginobili needs to develop his right hand, which you both seem to mean driving right. i also remember reading the article with battier a while back, who named ginobili the hardest person in the nba to defend because of his balanced driving, and if there’s anyone who preps for a guy’s tendencies, it’s him. unless you’re watching and keeping track of every play ginobili makes, i’d learn to read a scouting report.
i also have to disagree with bert and say that jordan was in a league of his own. i love ginobili, my girlfriend is from the same city, and i have lefty love, but jordan is generally considered the greatest player of all time for good reason. that said, ¡viva el contusion! and he definitely belongs in the hall of fame.
regarding ginobili’s body type: i agree that he doesn’t need to bulk up (very few players who operate primarily outside the post do), and that he might not be able to even if he were to try. jim, i disagree that type ii (fast twitch a/b) muscle people are all necessarily skinny, as many people and quick twitch athletes (think modern sprinters, practically everyone outside usain bolt) have bulked up. when i was doing a ton of plyo, and even my legs and torso bulked up like crazy (and i was never a terribly skinny guy to begin with). i do agree that it’s up to genetics though. in the end though, i’m sure ginobili has all the functional strength he needs.
finally, can i start the bandwagon for the spurs drafting jerome jordan and tasmin mitchell (off topic i know) this year? the two things most people seem to agree that we’re missing this year are a lockdown perimeter defender (sefolosha) and a skilled, active big (ibaka). okc has got a great young core and seem to be the best rising team in the nba. presti sure did well from his time with us. maybe these two guys aren’t the perfect fit, but i think it’d be great to see, especially since we could have a shot given their draft ranges. there, i related it back to the post.
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:49 pm
@Colin
? - Have you ever played basketball above the YMCA level?
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:51 pm
@ JIM HENDERSON
TRUE, but that comment had it coming.
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:58 pm
@junierizzle
J, you are acting like such a lil Lady boy. Please, limit your comments to all things Spurs.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:04 pm
jordan/lebron/manu/kobe. There is my order. And raja bell is injured so we can’t sign him, and also we will probably get splitter or trade his rigts with jefferson next summer. My 3 cents
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Bigballs
@Colin
“? – Have you ever played basketball above the YMCA level?”
Yeah bro, sure have. @ yrs JC and 1 yr DII level.
Posting insults on a public forum says more about you than it does the person your insulting.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Was checking out the dailythunder blog, on the recap of the game the following comment caught my attention:
“The day Manu Ginobili retires, I plan on hosting a parade in Bricktown. We’ll burn jerseys, flop on our backs when anyone brushes against us and made big, backbreaking plays in crunch time. Ahhhh, Manu!!! (shakes fist at the heavens) ”
Hero or villain?? haha.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:27 pm
@ Colin,
A Juco/D II reject! - I should have known.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:35 pm
Bigballs
What’s the deal bro? Are you really that insulted?
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Sefolosha, if I remember properly, was 0 for 5 on the night, and he never was a good jump shooter. Manu did well to gamble there.
As for Ibaka, it’s good to see a drafted big man finally working out for the Thunder franchise. After all the wasted draft picks on 7-footers that did not pan out, Presti might have found the big man he’s been looking for. I hope that the Spurs can find a talented big like him in this year’s draft (Spurs do have a first round pick, right?).
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Bigballs
You don’t know me. I don’t know you. You digress to insults with every disagreement to one of your posts as they have slept with your wife or something. What’s the deal man? Can’t you just talk about the ACTUAL subject of the article posted?
Again, this is a public forum. Insulting others on it says more about you than me or anyone else….but obviously you don’t get it.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Anyone watch this game on FS Thunder? Can someone tell me who the commentator was? He was awful.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:00 pm
Colin
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Consider ignoring them. I have.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:42 pm
Jim,
While I think Lee would make a HUGE contribution to the team, you are correct that he wouldn’t help us on the shot blocking part. He isn’t a shot blocker and at 6’9″ will never be one.
Your trade for Dalembert and Williams is very interesting. Dalmebert can rebound and block shots and Williams at 23 yrs old is an interesting and talented prospect. I do hate the fact that Dalembert will make $12 mil next year. He simply isn’t worth that to anyone in the league. This point may be moot considering we already have $12mil committed to Tony anyway next year.
However, the silver lining is that Dal will be a free agent after next year and will be signed for much less than $12mil.
I went team by team throughout the entire league and really couldn’t see too many reasonable options in a Parker for big man trade. Perhaps we could pry away Al Jefferson, but he may not be the perfect fit for the team. Now if we wanted to obtain a wing player (which wouldn’t address our need for rebound or shot blocking) then there were several viable options starting with Andre Igoudala and perhaps Danny Granger or a sign and trade with Memphis with Rudy Gay. I’m wondering if perhaps our cheapest option would be to sign Tiago Splitter even at a $6-7 million/year contract. Your thoughts?
March 24th, 2010 at 4:10 am
Jim, Normally I ignore your punk ass whining. But, you are dangerous to the 48.
You are that guy, that type, that starts shit and turns a public forum into a combat zone.
Dont address me in here again, whether it be directly or indirectly unless you want to do so in person. I am trying to remain civil,
but you are starting to piss me off.
Go start your crap somewhere else. Men post here.
March 24th, 2010 at 6:11 am
……And the discussion regresses……
March 24th, 2010 at 6:14 am
I’ll ignore the balls duo.
March 24th, 2010 at 6:26 am
@ BALLHOG,
“Don’t address me in here again, whether it be directly or indirectly unless you want to do so in person. I am trying to remain civil, but you are starting to piss me off.”
Kind of the pot calling the kettle black, isn’t it? At the same time, I love your Top Gun allusion with the “you are dangerous” line. “That’s right, Ball… Hog… I AM dangerous.” You are Jim both need to chill out with the ad hominem BS. You have one point of view (viz. I suck and should be fired), and he has another (I am perfect, speak directly with Jesus, etc.) As I see it, you each color the extreme positions of a nuanced debate, and I value both of your contributions to it. Like most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but without you guys’ diametrically polar love/hate of me, the discussion might get bland.
I therefore invite you both over to my mansion-that-Tim-built for beers to bury the hatchet. Perhaps we can schedule it for immediately after the Lakers loss tonight?
GP
March 24th, 2010 at 6:48 am
what the hell is up with this “manu should beef up” tripe? basketball players don’t need heavy frames. he is 32 years old. he is who he is and who he will be for the rest of his career. look at tim. he lost weight to sustain himself in his older years. tp on the other hand, he could use a little more weight training.
adding bulk and muscle will only slow their games down.
i say we beat LA tonight. manu is going to tear up VUJABICTCH!!! I HATE HOW ALL THOSE espn MOTHERFUCKERS SAY HE IS A DEFENSIVE SPECIALIST WHEN IT COMES TO MANU!!! kobe will have to do the job, which is going to exhasut him. and george hill better scorch fisher if parker won’t (can’t anyways).
March 24th, 2010 at 11:49 am
Hobson13
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:42 pm
“I’m wondering if perhaps our cheapest option would be to sign Tiago Splitter even at a $6-7 million/year contract. Your thoughts?”
Yeah, I’m okay with Spitter, but I don’t really have any idea if that’s going to be a viable option.
BALLHOG
March 24th, 2010 at 4:10 am
First, don’t try to tell me what to post on here. At least I make focused, sensible comments. I think my posts are fine, thank you very much, and will continue for as long as I find an interest!
Second, if you’d stop ruining the blog with your incessant, anti-pop clap-trap, you’d have much less of a problem.
Third, if you’d discontinue misrepresenting other peoples positions because you’re so obsessed with “proving your point” that you can’t even argue a position fairly, you might make it more enjoyable for others on here.
Finally, why do you feel the need to get personal on here? Your petty sarcasm & insults, and “pop psychology” (pun intended), are as obnoxious as they are pathetic. And your buddy bigballs looks to be an even more antagonistic incarnation.
ThatBigGuy
March 24th, 2010 at 6:14 am
“I’ll ignore the balls duo.”
Unfortunate it has to come to that, but good for you.
March 24th, 2010 at 11:52 am
Greg Popovich
March 24th, 2010 at 6:26 am
With all due respect, Greg, don’t even try to paint me with the same brush as ballhog. That’s utter B.S., unless you’d like to explain how several of my posts, using detailed LOGIC (if people even know what that word means on this site), made the compelling case (from a fan’s perspective) of why it looked like Hairston deserved a shot at assuming Bogans role in the rotation (this was soon after the all-star break). Yes, that’s right, so tell me how that’s seeing you as “perfect”, Greg?! How?!
The fact is, I’m not CONSTANTLY nit-picking at you for your decisions on rotations, etc. And the reason for that is so blatantly obvious that I find it pathetic to even have to mention it: WE FANS ARE NOT IN THE POSITION TO “DEFINITIVELY” KNOW WHAT PLAYER TO PLAY AT WHAT TIME FOR A GIVEN NUMBER OF MINUTES TO BEST HELP THE TEAM WIN. So, whenever I question your decisions, Greg, I do so with a good deal of respect, and the appropriate dose of humility. UNLIKE OTHERS on this blog!
Therefore, unless you’re prepared to back up you’re allegations about my commentary on this blog with facts, please refrain from misrepresenting the character of my comments. Thank you, Greg.
P.S. I know your post was partly tongue and cheek, but still, many will be left with the wrong impression of these ongoing discussions. And I don’t appreciate being misrepresented.
That said, good luck in the Laker game tonight. And always remember, you can play whoever you want! You might make some mistakes, but I don’t proclaim to know for sure what those are. It’s impossible. In the final analysis, I’d rather have you there “making mistakes” than any other coach in the league. And no, not because I worship you, but because 4 titles in the last 11 years makes me pretty happy! I’ll take those odds any day.
March 24th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
@ Jim,
Shall I put you down as a “maybe” for my beer-summit?
Best,
GP
March 24th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Does everyone here realize that this is pretty much the reverse of what happened in Game 5 of the 2005 Finals when ‘Sheed left his man to cover Manu…LOL
March 24th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Sheed left Robert freaking Horry!!
Not 0-5 Sefolosha to cover 45 pt Durant!
March 24th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Wow… what a bunch of great comments. Those that can say with a straight face that Manu is better than Jordan are only Spurs fans. Kinda like a Knick fan saying Patrick Ewing is one of the top 3 centers of all time case closed. I love Gino’s game and we hear tons of comments from defenders that hate guarding him; that speaks accolades to his skills. But better than Jordan… Seriously???
As far as being the best or most decorated international player, that very well may be true. He’s been the heart and soul of team Argentina. The only other guy that comes to mind with such an international reputation would be Sabonis. We have been lucky enough to see Gino play in the NBA at his prime. We never had that opportunity with Sabas. While Gino’s NBA numbers aren’t enough to get him into the HOF, rest assured his International game coupled with NBA success will be enough to get him into the HOF when all is said and done.
March 24th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
From ESPN (Insider NBA Rumors, by way of Daily Dime Live):
“Bucher: The market for Manu
Manu Ginobili’s importance to the Spurs playoff hopes can’t be understated with Tony Parker sidelined.
He leads the team in assists and he’s led his team in scoring in three of its past five games as the Spurs hold onto just a one-game lead for the seventh spot in the West.
But Manu also means a lot to the future of the franchise even though he turns 33 in May. Mike Monroe of the San Antonio Express-News writes that if the Spurs don’t present Ginobili with a serious contract extension before he becomes a free agent July 1, the guard will bolt.
His agent, Herb Rudoy, knows his client is wanted elsewhere if San Antonio doesn’t want him.
We’re not sure on the market for Ginobili just yet, but ESPN The Mag’s Ric Bucher has more on that below:
Ric Bucher
Rich market for Ginobili if he decides to leave
‘There will be a rich market for Ginobili should he decide to leave San Antonio, in spite of his age and injury history. ‘Stone-cold winner’ is how one rival executive described him. With eight teams having cap room and six marquee free agents on the market — and most of those expected to stay where they are — plenty of teams will be looking for a Plan B to Dwyane Wade or Joe Johnson. The question will be finding an appropriate price point — one exec opined $7 million per for two or three years would be readily available. The championship experience, passion and playmaking Ginobili offers will be very attractive and he’s not the type looking to grab every dollar. He settled on his current deal with the Spurs early just so negotiations wouldn’t interfere with his pending marriage.’”
Dang. I guess I will have to reschedule my wine-tasting cruise in the Mediterranean this summer and work on keeping Manu.
GP
March 24th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Gregg Popovich
March 24th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
@ Jim,
Shall I put you down as a “maybe” for my beer-summit?
Sorry, coach, you can put me down for a NO. And really now, what would be the point, anyway? It’s obvious by the great majority of my posts on this blog that I’m interested in logical, data-awareness based communications that have a snowballs chance in hell of making a valid point. I’m afraid that kind of exchange is NOT going to happen at your “beer summit”, with the likes of “bigballhogs” in attendance. Also, I have to admit, I haven’t been a big beer drinker since my late teens & twenties!. So, sorry Gregg, but I’ll need to respectfully decline your gracious invitation. But thanks anyway. It was thoughtful of you.
There is one thing you could do for me, coach, as you did for “Kevin” on the LeBron/Kobe thread in correcting the spelling of your first name. Yes, you could make an even easier accommodation for me as well by simply posting a retraction to your negative characterization of my posts. You did this by connecting/comparing/contrasting them to the clap-trap that “ballhog” continuously spews out, somehow suggesting that my posts are the polar “opposite” of ballhogs, as represented by the following quotes from your previous post:
“You have one point of view (viz. I suck and should be fired),(then, referring to me) “……… he has another (I am perfect, speak directly with Jesus, etc.)
“As I see it, you each color the extreme positions of a nuanced debate.”
Gregg, I know you’re a straight-shooter, and you usually appreciate the importance of considering facts before you make judgments or decisions. But the fact is, the quotes from above are entirely inaccurate representations of my posts on this blog. If you can present evidence to the contrary, using the majority of my posts as your evidence, that’s one thing. But you can’t, because it would be impossible.
So Gregg, I have every confidence you’ll do the right thing based on the evidence before you. In fact, that’s what I’ve respected about you as a coach over all these years. And I know it’s not easy for you to admit errors, although you do anyway, on occasion, because that’s how you grow & improve in any role, including as a coach.
So Coach, a simple acknowledgment from you that you made an error in your characterization of my posts is all that’s needed. It’s not a big deal, but it is the right thing to do. That said, whatever decision you make, I wish you good luck with the Lakers tonight. And I’ll be pulling for the team as I have for a long time.
Best,
Jim
March 24th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
@Gregg
“You and Jim both need to chill out with the ad hominem BS. ”
By the way, Gregg, I also don’t make ad hominem attacks. That’s what the bigballhogs are infamous for. You ask anyone else on this blog if they haven’t seen it on numerous occasions — then get back to me.
That said, I will defend myself from unsolicited “personal” types of comments and sarcastic remarks directed at my commentary. And I’m not going to deescalate the tit-for-tat diatribes until the initiator’s of this “ad hominem BS”, as you describe it, backs off. I’ve already committed to not addressing directly the “bigballhogs”, and trade TP’s in an effort to avoid THEIR penchant for “ad hominem” BS. And that’s as far as I’m willing to go.
And Gregg, you usually focus on the right problem to solve a specific issue. Let us all hope that your commitment to this effective strategy can continue with solving the impasse at hand.
Thank you in advance for an honest assessment of the facts.
JH
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May 2nd, 2010 at 5:16 am
[...] In terms of impact and importance, Manu Ginobili is every bit the equivalent of Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki. Currently there are maybe three to five players who are elite closers in this league, LeBron James and Kobe Bryant being the obvious first two choices. But since March, it’s been hard to make a case for anyone over Manu Ginobili. [...]
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