Monday, March 29th, 2010...8:24 pm
San Antonio Spurs 84, New Jersey Nets 90
In the roller coaster ride that is fans’ emotions, this one night will undo all the goodwill the San Antonio Spurs have built the past two games and transform the Spurs from potential world beaters into first round playoff fodder.
A loss to a New Jersey Nets team that, just a week ago, was in serious contention for the worst team in NBA history will do that. But objectively, shouldn’t this have been expected?
Tonight was a perfect case study of the impact one player can make. The catalyst for everything the San Antonio Spurs have become this past month has been Manu Ginobili, who sat out with back spasms. Ten wins or not, without Ginobili or Tony Parker-and on the wrong end of a back-to-back away from the AT&T Center-the talent gap between the two teams is not as drastic as you think.
Just look at the top two players on tonight’s teams. Improved as he is, and I believe George Hill merits serious consideration for the Most Improved Player award, Devin Harris is a better point guard. Likewise, tough as it is to say, Brook Lopez is a better player on two healthy wheels than Tim Duncan is on none.
That’s an advantage at the two most important spots, and looking down the rest of the rosters, the talent is almost a wash.
The New Jersey Nets shot 38% from the field and were out rebounded by ten, this was not a case of the Spurs lacking for effort or heart. Sans Manu Ginobili or Tony Parker, the Spurs simply lack the ability to create shots.
In years, or even months, past Tim Duncan would be the first candidate to pick up that slack. But Duncan is laboring once again with knee problems after loading up on heavy minutes the past week and it has noticeably effected his play on the court.
His defensive and rebounding presence is vital, but it’s becoming harder and harder to count on brilliant offensive performances on the second end of back-to-backs.
George Hill? He had 19 points and three assists, but on an inefficient 8-19 shots (only two free throws). Hill is vastly improved, but you have to watch how he scores his points to understand why he cannot fully replace Parker and Ginobili, even against a lowly Nets team.
In transition, off of curls, dribble handoffs and cuts, Hill can put the ball in the basket. But ask him to direct a pick and roll offense for an entire game? The Spurs have 16 turnovers and score 84 points.
This is not an attack on Hill, but rather an honest look at what his skill set is and isn’t at this point in his career. A player like Flip Murray might not be able to crack this Spurs rotation, but on a night like tonight his ability to create NBA shots would have been very valuable for a team that gave quality minutes to Malik Hairston, Garrett Temple and Keith Bogans (a combined 3 for 10).
So on the list of things to take away from this game, perhaps the most important lesson is that the Spurs are not a very good team without both Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker.
It doesn’t take away from what the Spurs did with Ginobili and it didn’t take a loss to the Nets to confirm what the Spurs are without Ginobili.
101 Comments
March 29th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
Baaaad game. period.
March 29th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Spurs are not a very good team without both Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker.
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No excuse !!!!! worst lost of the season and in duncan era. and duncan is main responsible for that Hate to see play like that shameful to the coach and players nobody showed any willingness to win the game. full responsible for duncan. they would have easily win blair played in place of duncan. once again its because of coach. as a spurs fan iam very shameful what about you pop and duncan? without manu this team is nothing today it proved. Timmy is a Dummy today??????????? they are guarunteed the eight place
March 29th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
not bad game worrrrrsssssttttttt game
March 29th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
its very hard to digest as a true spurs fan
March 29th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
If this loss was indeed an expected loss, at least Duncan should’ve been allowed to rest. I agree that the Spurs squad without TP and Manu, and with Duncan struggling is no better than the Nets, but with the Nets playing their usual bad basketball, Spurs should’ve easily won this one. They just played bad (it wasn’t as if the Nets were playing best basketball of their season either), and playing worse than the Nets says a lot about this team.
March 29th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
It’s a loss. A loss that in the grand scheme of things is just a loss. The only way that this game has any ramifications on anything moving forward is if Manu Ginobili is out for any extended period of time.
March 29th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
compare this game to last seasons in in which all the big 3 sat out against denver…. and almost won. have we really changed so much over a single season
March 29th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
I hope Manu returns just in time for our home game against Houston.
March 29th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Objectively, fans should expect the Spurs to have 4 times as many turnovers as the Nets? NO.
Objectively, fans should expect the Spurs to shoot 55% from the FT line? NO.
Objectively, fans should expect Blair to play less than 24 minutes on a road back to back or Mahinimi not to play at all after playing well against them in the 1st matchup? NO.
Objectively, fans should expect after the Spurs score 33 pts in the 1st qtr, it should take the next 3 QTRS before the Spurs surpass that point total? NO.
Objectively, fans should expect to lose a team the Spurs have beaten 12 times in a row, never having lost to in the regular season since 2002, or be only like one of 2 teams in the last 10 years to have over 40 wins lose to a team with less than 10 wins? NO, NO, and NO.
Should it have been a dogfight, a contested contest, a game to scratch and claw for a win? Sure. But, to objectively expect to lose to a totally, completely, inept team that shot 38%? NO.
March 29th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Hey pop what lesson you learned today hope you learned that Names won’t win games only play win games .example DUNCAN name is not enough to win the game play like blair win games. i don’t know why you didn’t play blair ???????????????????
March 29th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Goodwill undone? Not for me. Irritated? Yep. Pissed that this was the (sixth, seventh?) completely given away game this year? No doubt. But how many teams in this league can win a road game, on the second night of a road b2b, without their two best players/scorers? The Lakers losing at NOLA and Utah nearly losing at home to the Knicks on this night shows that nothing can be taken for granted.
Even without Manu and Tony, we only lose this game if we miss layups, commit unforced turnovers and miss FTs. Check, check and check.
I’m more upset that Pop played Timmy. When does he get a game day off? This was the one and deservingly we lost. I just hope this loss doesn’t continue to wear on him and cost us an important game this week.
March 29th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
@Ian-the Spurs missed shots they had trouble creating, and couldn’t take care of the ball when it was put in the hands of people who are not use to creating plays.
Not sure what you could tell the Spurs to do other than to knock down shots.
March 29th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
didn’t play blair??????? means below 20 min back 2back and playing well???
March 29th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
Objectively, LV, you should have expected a rough game. And teams can lose rough games by bad luck or one or two possessions…games that go down to the wire can be won by anybody.
The Nets have been horrible this year, but they’ve also been hurt and they do have some talented pieces.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Well……the Duncan-era Spurs have NEVER lost a game like this……ever. Especially to a team that was in contention to be the WORST ever! I don’t care how you spin it ie: no Parker or Ginobili or how good you compare the Nets roster to tonight’s Spurs roster. What the F*$k ever! I am surprised they lost this game and hopefully the Spurs will move on and be a better team because of it.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
@ Colin: What, in your opinion then, should the Spurs have done to win the game?
March 29th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
SAS, go away.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
I agree with “IN the Duncan-era Spurs have NEVER lost a game like this……ever….” each and every gane is counts for seeding .every team is fighting hard in west and you loose the very winnable game and move on??? what a shame for me as a true spurs fan. what about you pop and timmy????
March 29th, 2010 at 9:13 pm
Jesse
Make shots and defend when it counts. I know they shot 38% and were outrebounded, but the Nets still won. How is that? The Spurs couldn’t capitalize on offense or get the stops when they really needed them.
I was mostly highlighting the fact that the Spurs as we’ve known them since ‘99 simply don’t lose games like this. They just don’t. I think even this season we have the best record against teams below .500 right? I know they weren’t TRYING to lose. However, there is something to be said when a team of the Spurs caliber loses to the current Nets roster. I’m not one to say it was the coach’s fault or that the right players didn’t play….hell Hairston got 24 min, but finding SOME way to win.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:15 pm
Spurs just beat Cleveland and Boston. They almost beat Atlanta and maybe with a rested Duncan they beat the Lakers.
This game wasn’t taken as serious by the Spurs. I wish Pop took it to the full extent and forced Duncan and McDyess to sit.
If they can beat Orlando and Lakers then this game doesn’t matter because it shows that the team has still improved and is playing when it counts. No excuse for losing, but there are more important games left on the schedule.
We fans complain when they can’t beat the good teams and complain when they lose to the crappy teams. They have a great record against the crappy teams and no one is happy. We lose to the good teams and no one is happy. So what game can you lose?
March 29th, 2010 at 9:15 pm
SAS
So…..how else are we supposed to play the rest of the season without moving on? Give up? Should we give our playoff birth to the Hornets and say fuck it? C’mon dude!
March 29th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
ON a side note:
Spurs max out with Gee: The Spurs signed forward Alonzo Gee for the remainder of the season, bringing their roster to the NBA’s maximum 15.
Gee, a 6-foot-6 rookie from Alabama, became available after Washington declined to pick him up for the rest of the year after he completed the second of two 10-day contracts Sunday.
The Spurs sweetened their offer to Gee, who played for the team’s summer league entry in Las Vegas and spent most of the season with its Development League affiliate in Austin, by including a make-good offer for next season that would bring him to training camp.
Since Gee joins the roster after March 1, he will be ineligible for the playoffs.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_Ginobili_unfazed_by_free_agency.html
March 29th, 2010 at 9:20 pm
no i am not saying to give up man . its a very winnable game and every game counts in west . if we win today we will be better chance of competing for 3rd and 4th seed its a frustration man!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 29th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Hey everyone,
stop being chicken littles. It’s disheartening. To get down in the mud of the debate here, the, f*cking Spurs are as f*cking fine as they can be.
Losing to the Nets doesn’t mean they’re “worse than the Nets”, despite what you hear tomorrow on ESPN Radio. Why do you all only show up on nights when we lose?
March 29th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Truth be told, Timmy hasn’t played well as of late- but most disappointing is his ball handling skills. He has had a real penchant for turnovers in key 4th quarter situations this year. It’s like he’s forgotten how to pass. His passes are sloppy, forced, rushed and very turnover prone.
It’s clear Duncan is hurting, but when he plays like this, he hurts more than his knees. Oh, and, why won’t someone tell him to put some arc on his shot? When he shoots line drives- the chances are slim to none it’s going in, especially from the free throw line. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge TD fan, but he’s fading down the stretch. Hope we get him some rest before we have to play LA in the first round.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
SAS, uh-gain:
The 4/5 seed is a bad place for us, duh.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Phoebus-
Just venting man. When we’re competing for playoff position, W’s and L’s matter.
I know we’re not worse than the Nets and armageddon isn’t coming tonight.
ps: If you read the site, I usually post after every game, win or lose. Bottom line is that Spurs teams DON’T lose these games, especially to a 9-win team going into tonight at this juncture of the season.
SAS-
Gotcha.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Thanks Chipp for the helpful, honest, not-hysterical analysis.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:27 pm
This loss pretty much guaranteed us 8th seed. The next 6-7 games are just an extention of our hell schedule. It is very possible to go 3-4 over the next 10 days with losses at home to Orlando and on the road to LAL, Pho, and Denver. This game just goes to show how far Duncan has fallen off over the course of the year. Getting a good big over the summer is no longer optional (if it ever was) because its possible we saw the last greatness of Duncan earlier this year. Check out his numbers for the past 3 months and tell me what you guys think…
December
21.1 ppg 9.8 rebounds
January
19.5 ppg 11.5 rebounds
February
16.7 ppg 11.9 rebounds
March
14.1 ppg 7.8 rebounds
The rebound dropoff is interesting to me. Tim’s minutes are essentially the same for the past few months. I wonder if RJ is taking a few rebounds from Duncan?
P.S. I am also perplexed as to why Blair didn’t get 30 minutes of burn in a game like this. He’s played well against Lopez before…
March 29th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Colin: “When we’re competing for playoff position, W’s and L’s matter.”
No, that’s the thing, they don’t. We’re gonna get a playoff spot, regardless, that’s pretty much a given. Especially after doing quite well over the 5 games preceding this one. We definitely don’t want to get the Lakers in the first round, right? The later a Spurs/Lakers matchup happens, the more piss-pantsed Kobe and Phil get about it, and the better our chances are.
Staying where we are right now, seedings-wise, is good. Thus, going about .600 over the remainder of the season is a great plan. Especially if it allows Pop to play around with lineups in a way that makes the return of Parker not at all controversial.
The only people who think that makes us “loosers” were probably really stoked about spring break.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
Worst loss ever? Nah. We’ve been swept by some bad Bucks teams before. Lost @NYK last season (with the big 3). We always lose @Philly. It happens. When you don’t have your two best players it’s most likely to happen. I’m not saying that people should be okay with the loss but once Manu (and Tony obviously) weren’t going to play this game was going to be a 50/50 shot. Had they made a few of their FTs and/or had a couple less unforced turnovers they win by 4-6 points instead of losing by that spread.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
Well, making a few free throws would help. The Spurs were a minus 10 from the line, which included two 75-80% veteran free throw shooters, Duncan & Bogans, going 2 for 8 from the line. Also, taking care of the ball would of course help as well. I understand the team was without their two best play-makers off the dribble, but being a +12 on turnovers is inexcusable against the second worse team in NBA history. Our poor performance at the line and in taking care of the ball tonight shows a troubling lack of focus and poise from what we hope is (and should be) a viable playoff team, which instead of coming out flat, should have been looking to “take care of business” against a lesser team during a still very difficult stretch drive to help avoid getting a first-round match-up with the defending champion LA Lakers. In addition, a loss like this could very well end up killing any momentum & confidence we gained during our back-to-back wins against Cleveland & Boston. Any way you slice it, this is a stunning and disappointing loss that could indeed have lasting consequences for the remainder of the regular season & playoffs.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
Phoebus
Point well taken, but would you rather play the Lakers in the first round or the Nuggets/Mavs?
When it comes down to us beating the Mavs in the last game of the season to “be or not be” the 8th seed, we can look at a game like this.
@Spurred On
—I said that this was the worst loss ever to a 9 win team at this point in the season…….the worst in the Duncan era. You can’t really refute that. The losses you pointed out are well taken, but a loss to a 9 win team with 9-10 games left? No argument there.
I hope a fire gets lit and we finish strong into the playoffs! No armageddon here.
March 29th, 2010 at 10:00 pm
“Any way you slice it, this is a stunning and disappointing loss that could indeed have lasting consequences for the remainder of the regular season & playoffs.”
Ok I guess I’m venturing off into the forest, away from y’all’s opinions about it, but I just don’t see that. The spurs are a veteran, more or less Manu-led team, when it matters. The idea that losing to the Nets is so dire depends on only 2 things: 1. playoff seeding, 2. effect on confidence. NEITHER of those two criteria are terribly hurt by this loss.
That’s not an endorsement of losing. It’s a faith in Pop knowing which games are and aren’t important to win, and for those that aren’t, taking advantage of the opportunity to mess around with lineups, to get an idea of how certain guys mesh.
Makes perfect sense.
March 29th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
Colin
I think you’re saying tonight’s game endangers us of being the 8 seed?
That, no. Portland and OKC are so incredibly young: one of them is garaunteed to collapse a little down the stretch. Phoenix, too, has a tendency to close up shop early. I’m almost *more* worried about the Spurs accidentally climbing up into the Lakers’ side of the bracket.
March 29th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
@Phoebus - I’m with you. My biggest irritant from this game is that Duncan played. That’s one night of wear on his legs that went to waste, even had we won.
March 29th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
From my last post: “Any way you slice it, this is a stunning and disappointing loss that could indeed have lasting consequences for the remainder of the regular season & playoffs.”
I didn’t mean to apocryphal here. Obviously it’s “just one game” and may not have much meaning in the final analysis. That said, my point get’s at this issue:
Teams in the playoffs tend to succeed when the ENTIRE team trusts that every member will do what is necessary to cover for another in their absence. The Spurs team should of made it a point to “cover” for Ginobli tonight come hell or high water. That’s what successful teams do. Unfortunately, they failed dramatically in this “I’ve got your back” mentality that is so often prevalent among teams that ultimately experience playoff success. The bar was certainly low with the Nets tonight, and they still managed to fail! And to me, that is a potentially troublesome event.
March 29th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
SpurredOn:
yeah, I hear you. Duncan needs all the rest he can get his knees on, agreed. but I can also see how Blair and Hill and Jefferson getting some playing time with Duncan without Manu or Tony around to confuse things, so that they -Blair, Hill, and RJ, who are gonna be vital if we have any kind of playoff run- get a clear idea of how Duncan’s game can mesh with their own in the playoffs, is good.
Hill already works well with Duncan, except his weird occasional adventures into the paint, only to find himself under the rim and surrounded by forwards. That’s where knowing where Duncan will be, always, for the outlet pass, is good for him.
March 29th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Umm, Wow…. just didn’t realize how critical this game against the Nets was to the future of this season.
I would agree, this would be the worst loss to a 9 win team this late in the season, of all the times we have played one (let me count, that would be once).
You have to give credit; this Nets team is not as bad as the record indicates. They have won three of their last four now, they beat Boston, in Boston. They have been plagued by injuries this season (I believe they said on key player missed 30 games, another 17 and another almost as many), I think Spurs fans can relate to that effecting a record. They are healthy now and starting to play together better.
Watching the game, I saw a bunch of time with lineups that were not used to playing with each other and a lot of mistakes and rushed and chaotic plays by the Spurs. During one period, Bonner was the most veteran Spur on the floor, the rest were first and second season players and some even first month or week players.
We did get the stops when we needed them, we just didn’t capitalize on the other end because we turned over the ball or just missed the open shot. I would say fatigue and chemistry had a factor tonight.
You can’t tell me that you didn’t see this game coming. With the hard games we have been playing, winning against teams like OKC, Lebrons and Celtics, the back end of a back to back, a desperate team that didn’t want to be the worst team in league history (or at least tied with it). I called it yesterday before the Boston game and when they said Manu was out, pretty much clinched it for me.
Spurs played bad, they really did, and we still almost won. The Spurs are tired and we lost another player during the game. Mason Jr went down during the game, and he was actually doing well in game before that.
The loss hurts, but it is not over and the Spurs have historically been a team the bounces back well from a loss like this. We have a couple days rest and then we need to take care of business at home. I, for one, will be there to cheer them on…
I do agree, might have been a good game to rest Duncan too (thought they would), but a good point about getting playing time for some of the others with Duncan.
Sorry, it’s long, but had a lot to say and saved it up.
March 29th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
To be honest I wasn’t that upset with the loss.
The Spurs played a bad game straight up. To many TO’s and no one stepped up. 16 TO’s! Missed Free throws. If you turn the ball over enough eventually the other team is going to take advantage. Even the NETS. In fact the only reason the SPURS didn’t get blown out is because they are the NETS.
My only disappointment is in HAIRSTON. I like how he plays, he doesn’t try to force anything. But in a game like this I thought he would have been more aggresive, more selfish.
NO TP and now no MANU its really not that surprising. We already know that when MANU isn’t in there, the SPURS get lost at times. It just sucks balls, cuz its the NETS.
The play that personified the game was at the end when the SPURS were going for the tie and TD throws it out of bounds.
Call me crazy but you can’t win like that against anyone.
On a side note, I hope MANU is OKAY. If he was and POP just wanted to rest him, then maybe he should have played. They only would have needed him for about 15 minutes in this game.
March 29th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
Here is my low-down on these recent results….
Ginobili is absolutely indespensible for us, as results have shown over the past 6 years…
Tony’s offence would have won us the game without MG, cos devin can’t guard him with the guys behind him.
Tim is now David Robinson…..stop expecting him to dominate games…he makes his mark with his personality and passing and will to win.
Jefferson is discovering his role, and we all realise that he is a COMPLIMENTARY player, not a game changer.
Most of the other spurs fit this mode aswell, with the exception of ghill, who in the playoffs will get the opportunity to smoke teams with mid range shots, three’s, and drive-and-dishes to the bucket…… I understand why pop has pumped him up so much because in the playoffs teams are going to take the ball out of manu, tp and even Tims hands and make this little guy win……if he can do some damage early, teams will be scrambling to contain 4 guys…ala guarding the lakers….heres hoping
March 30th, 2010 at 12:36 am
went to the game. took my niece and my two nephews. At no point did I think that the spurs would lose. Then all of the sudden they did. Heartbroken. Last 2 years it has been step and a half forward and 2 steps back. I jokingly blamed the loss on my niece and nephews and told them I enjoyed taking them but they are never going to a spurs game with me again. The first time they have lost a game I have gone to. Of course I have seen them play the Nets, Knicks and Sixers. They beat the knicks and sixers on last second shots. GLASS HALF FULL-Hey lets just take the 8 seed and beat the Lakers in the first round. Gotta beat them at some point to win the championship so why not just start out with them.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:10 am
we really do have a chance to win this year……we just don’t have as big-a-chance as previous years…i still believe the spurs can rope-a-dope in the playoffs….
I thought about writing the whole TP sixth man thing when he wen’t injured but others beat me to it, and now i still believe its the best playoff strategy we could adopt….we now have a weak bench and one of the best starting 5’s in the league. TP could bolster the bench and if playing well, finish games with a 5 threat lineup of tim, tp, manu, hill and blair….yes blair, because offensive rebounds are our get out of offensive funk card, and we really need it, despite the defensive limitations of a rookie. These are our 5 most talented players- if rj is having a big game, then he plays- and that lineup is incredibly tough to guard.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:31 am
nutha thing….if we are to be a destructive force in the playoffs…tough d followed by outlet to tp with jeff on the run can punish oppositions….we need that offense
March 30th, 2010 at 3:58 am
Embarrassing loss indeed. The point is not that the Spurs played poorly or had turnovers or missed freethrows.
Point is the Spurs had no offense without Ginnobli. We all had to know this. Unless denial is our watchword.
The problem has not changed. Rotations and bizarre personnel decisions.
Mahinmi should have played half of Duncans minutes last night. Tim certainly looks to need the rest.
Bogans 20 minutes to contribute 1 point and 1 rebound. I have pounded this guy all year because he hurts this team much more often than he helps. However, coach is in denial.
Hairston played the way I expected. Tight and unsure of himself with very little aggression and little confidence. Apparently that is what coach wants for he is directly responsible for it.
Bonner at almost 40 minutes did OK by his standards. Nine boards had to be his career high.
This is why a team must have role players. not role fakers. When your core guys go down for whatever reason, the next guy in line cannot be a scrub. If the next guy in line is a scrub, you lose to a team with 9 wins in a season.
As for Duncan, he is not being properly utilized. Catching the ball too far from the cup. Not working for position on the low block, and far too many perimeter jump shots. Tim is still effective, but without help in the frontcourt, he will continue to struggle.
My assessment…
Mismanaging players. Bonner should be at the 3, regardless of his defensive assignment. He needs the mismatch.
Mcdyess is a PF being used as a 3. Have the Spurs completely abandoned the concept of a PF or Center? Ours are perimeter guys, leaving our 3 to manage the boards. Weird.
Mason is a two guard being used as a 1. He should have been comming off picks all year long.
Bogans is a trainwreck. We will not win with this guy logging so many minutes.
Blair-Not even one of us in this room can figure out what the thought process is in his minutes being below Bogans and Bonner. Especially against the Nets. Eerie!
Mahinmi-Why is he here? Why is he on our bench? At least he could be the equipment manager.
Jefferson is comming into form as I knew he eventually would. He was so blatantly mismanaged this season, its good to see him get back to his strengths.
Said it all year, we are not the coach, the owner, or the GM….However, moves made by the team should make some basketball sense to us as fans. They just dont.
Wonder if we will ever know what is really going on here. It is a tough pill to swallow..
March 30th, 2010 at 4:11 am
no comment needed on this one……………
March 30th, 2010 at 4:40 am
Let’s see, what was different from this game and our last meeting with the Nets…
Ian Mahinmi ate Mr Lopez’s breakfast. He recieved a DNP when it should have been Timmy who was on the bench.
In other news, I have only missed 3 regular season games. All three that I did not watch, we lost. I missed Memphis, Charlotte, and this NJ. UGH! depressing!
March 30th, 2010 at 4:54 am
Ballhog: I understand your point of view, and it’s hard to disagree with some of the things you say.
Still, just a correction:
Bonner played 27 minutes.
Bogans had 19 minutes and Hairston 26. You can’t blame the coach for that, and against New Jersey! Hairston had a big chance here against mild opposition. Mahinmi had a good game against the Nets when he had a chance to show something. (and here I agree that he might have done good things here and spare Duncan some more playing time).
And Did you really knew R. Jefferson would have his feet under him at some point this season? I don’t really want to check all your past comments, but if you did, hats off.
March 30th, 2010 at 4:56 am
@DieHardSpur: Do not miss any playoff game please.
March 30th, 2010 at 5:06 am
I’m with the crowd who say my only realy problem with last nights game is Duncan’s minutes. Truth is, he’s not been good recently at creating his own shot. We may as well sit him in that situation and build depth. Last night’s team has zero people who can be counted on to create their own shot in crunch time. Without a healthy Parker or Ginobili this team needs to put teams away early. We saw this early in the season when we would either blow teams out or lose close.
Also, the Nets suck, but they have NBA talent. Take away two of any teams best 3 player, and slow the other down with injuries, and the nets have a chance. They suck because most other teams would win that game no question, but the nets needed to gut out a close one.
March 30th, 2010 at 5:29 am
@Jesse
“The only way that this game has any ramifications on anything moving forward is if Manu Ginobili is out for any extended period of time.”
I call BS. I’ve waited for you guys to come around, but this blog in general is really in denial. This wasn’t just one game, it glaringly brings out the biggest story of the last month or so for the Spurs. Tim Duncan has been in decline since the All Star break and in the last few weeks it’s reached the point that he’s an offensive non-factor. This game just brought that out. His FG% has been terrible for a long stretch now, his rebounding is down overall, and he can’t create his own shot. This is basically exactly what happened last year and we know how that turned out. Two wins over Cleveland and Boston (the latter being a mere .500 team since the all star break) brought out that the rest of the team was playing better, but they didn’t change the fact that teams don’t go anywhere without a strong frontcourt. Especially in our case where our PF/C is supposed to be our franchise player.
The writers on this blog have mentioned it in passing here and there, but come one. We talk about the “Tim Duncan window”. Tim Duncan’s health is not a minor issue that takes a backseat to Manu’s greatness or RJ doing better. Tim Duncan’s excellence makes or breaks this team (and yes, he needs to be excellent, not just good, for the Spurs to go anywhere). This blog really dropped the ball in reporting these worries early on. You can be positive and optimistic and still face reality.
March 30th, 2010 at 5:36 am
And I’m sorry, but can we cut the crap about sitting Duncan for a game? I mean, I’m not against it, but let’s not kid ourselves and act like 30 minutes less of basketball in the course of the week likely to get him back to where we need him. His problem isn’t back-to-backs. Are we going to give him nights off in the playoffs too? At some point he has to play. If he can’t do it, he can’t do it. He’s had the lowest minutes of his career all season. Some problems can’t be fixed by a night off and it’s pretty obvious this is one of those cases.
Obviously I hope he gets better, but I’m not going to labor under the delusion that fewer minutes at this point in the season are going to pay off in the playoffs.
March 30th, 2010 at 5:55 am
This is becoming a broken record. Personally, I am tired of hearing of Duncan’s health and “rest” every spring for the past three years. At the beginning of the year we hear about what Duncan did or ‘did not do’ to stay fresh and healthy for the playoffs. There is much hype around why Duncan will be a force for the year ahead. Then as the year progresses we start to hear about nagging injuries and how to rest him on back to back etc etc. It is about time we recognize that he is not the force he used to be and start to find a plan B.
To me TD was a liability in yesterday’s game and I could not understand why Pop played him at all…he should have had the night off. Mahinmi had a decent game last time around against the nets and should have gotten minutes. Blair did a good job but he was ‘rested’ instead. After all the hard work by Manu and the team for more than a month yesterday was very deflating.
And…this is not “just another loss”. The loss was a serious dent to our momentum and puts a lot more pressure on the team to win upcoming games.
We have the number one bench in the NBA and the number one bench in the NBA could have won this game for us if given the opportunity.
March 30th, 2010 at 5:59 am
@ pastryP
Accurate posts. Duncan is on the decline. He is declining because he isnt strong enough to get his spot on the low block and it has forced him to become a perimeter player. Not his strong suit by far.
As for resting him, agreed as well. Wont help him as much as it would have helped Mahinmi. This team has no front court and it will hurt hem in the playoffs, as will the coach’s choices in who plays and who sits.
It makes the loss of Haislip and Ratliff even more glaring. Anyone that knows basketball, knows that those players could have bolstered our front court quite a bit.
Mcdyess at center? Backed up by Blair at 6′7? WOW is all I can say.
Coach Pop could simply have the team to back its defense more toward the paint. Defenders are too far out, which just opens the lane for lay up drills. We arent being beat on the perimeter most nights, we are being beat in the paint.
As for offense, Man oh Man…We could really use much more movement without the ball in this offense. Too many guys standing on the perimeter waiting and watching, instead of cutting and slashing.
It is the reason Pastry, that I couldnt join the cheering section just yet. Our roster is just not well thought out and is absolutely insufficient.
Though many try to remain optimistic, which is OK, lets not get too far from the obvious.
March 30th, 2010 at 6:28 am
@Pastry-Tim Duncan’s problems aren’t back-to-backs, they are his knees, which are exacerbated by….back-to-backs.
You’re absolutely correct, the knee thing will not be fixed with a night off, it’s a degenerative condition that he will have to deal with for the rest of his career and probably his life. What a night off does is help at least manage it a little better. And yes, during the playoffs we will give him nights off…in fact, the Spurs will give their entire team nights off (there are no back-to-backs in the playoffs).
If you’d like us to scream from the rooftops that Tim Duncan is struggling with his knees, then: TIM DUNCAN IS STRUGGLING WITH HIS KNEE.
But over the past month Ginobili has been able to run the offense in a way that has removed Duncan’s neccessity to be an offensive focal point. Which is fine.
I’m not sure how saying the Spurs are not a good team without Manu Ginobili or Tony Parker is being in denial. I tend to believe this blog has always (and well before I got here) done a reasonable job of keeping things in perspective. And in the grand scheme of things I’m not sure that a loss to the Nets without two of your three best players (and the only ones that can create shots) changes things.
March 30th, 2010 at 6:28 am
This never would have happened if TIM DUNCAN was still alive…
March 30th, 2010 at 6:43 am
Guys, don’t get me wrong, I’m disappointed in this loss. But when I say it’s not relevant it’s because the Spurs will not play in the playoffs without Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. And if they do, it wouldn’t matter because you couldn’t expect the Spurs to win without them anyways.
March 30th, 2010 at 6:47 am
Does anyone have a scouting report of Ian Mahinmi’s game?
March 30th, 2010 at 6:50 am
Pastrypride is right. Despite a summer of non-impact swimming and weight loss and a career low in minutes Tim is as bad off now as at the end of last season. I had hoped he’d sit out last night, even after I heard about Manu, but let’s not pretend one night of rest cures tendonosis. It’s a degenerative condition which cannot be treated by surgery and is unlikely to improve while he’s still playing.
Also, as much as it pains me to agree with BallHog on anything, he’s mostly correct about Bogans. Keith lacks the lateral quickness of a defensive stopper and makes too many mental errors. He has better offensive skills than Bowen but his corner 3 is not as reliable so in the Spurs’ system he’s actually a less effective scorer. He can provide value in certain situations but should not be part of the regular rotation.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:03 am
@Jesse, DraftExpress has a decent summary from last fall. Ian’s problem is he needs minutes to develop but is no longer eligible for the D-League. He’d probably be better off overseas or on a lottery team that can afford to lose 50 games during his “on-the-job training” period.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ian-Mahinmi-207/
March 30th, 2010 at 7:04 am
@BALLHOG,
So, when Hairston doesn’t play, you complain that he needs minutes. When he plays a huge chunk of minutes and sucks, you still blame it on Pop, claiming that he sucks because Pop has ruined his confidence. If that is truly the case, he needs to be cut, because apparently he can’t play if his confidence is gone. Hairston seems to play plenty loose when he picks up minutes in garbage time. More likely is that his tightness is due to the fact that he can’t dribble or pass, and that makes it scary to play when a game is still on the line.
I pretty much agree with your other points, but I think you have to lay off Pop on the Hairston issue, since he did exactly what you have been begging him to do for ages.
On a side note, I actually really like what I have seen from Temple. He seems to have a game similar to Hill’s only with dribbling ability. I would like to see how he comes out of camp next year, because I think he could be a viable backup.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:06 am
Jesse,
I’m sorry if my original post come off a little strong. It was a tough loss. But I still think you’re denying the obvious.
The “night off thing” is a red herring and silly. I’m pretty sure you knew I meant not having to go in to a scheduled work day.
As for “screaming things from the rooftops”, it should be obvious that’s not what I’m talking about. Expecting media to cover important issues in a timely manner is not asking them to shout things emotionally. Manu’s play is a great story, but if you guys are going to speculate about the team’s chances in the playoffs, as has been happening lately, Manu isn’t the only consideration on which to base speculations. The story of TD’s health is as big a story.
This post at least gestures towards the problem. But look at how it’s formulated:
“His defensive and rebounding presence is vital, but it’s becoming harder and harder to count on brilliant offensive performances on the second end of back-to-backs.”
I’m sorry to go back to stating things too forcefully, but is this a joke, a hyperbolic understatement? How long has it been since you could “count on” “brilliant offensive performances”, whether on the second half of a back-to-back or not? We’re lucky if we get a decent offensive performance after a day or more of rest.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:09 am
Jesse- Its not just a loss. Thinking that way is the same ignorance as pop.
We blew another 4th to one of the worst teams ever.
We saw TD fail in the fourth again.
We saw Lopez manhandle Tim and McD.
We didnt rest Tim.
So not only did we lose, but we also lost confidence.
This is the most ignorant coach of all time: “We just didn’t have anybody who could score. If you are not scoring, you need to make free throws, which we didn’t, or at least you have to take care of the ball, which we didn’t,” Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. “So bad from the free throw line, bad handling the ball and found nobody who could score
Well we all know who the culprits are McD, Bonner, Bogans. Take away those losers and we’re shooting 30/67 = 45% 3/6 =50% 10/15= 67%.
WHO PLAYS THE PLAYERS?
Might I mention Blair was shooting over 50% but he wasnt in long enough.
Play the effective players .No Bogans, No Bonner, No McDyess. More Blair.
Ian even got a DNP? This would have been a great game for him since Pop didnt give a shit. Its funny the games we win Pop did a great job, but the games we lose = he didnt care.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:13 am
And by the way, I think this is an excellent blog. That’s why I read it and post on it. Overall, you guys did a great job this season. But you can’t get everything right!
March 30th, 2010 at 7:17 am
The loss to the Nets was very predictable. The loss isn’t going to change things much. What I’m worried about is Ginobli’s health. Back spasm and the like don’t disappear quickly. He only has about two weeks to completely recover so I don’t expect Pop to be in a hurry to put him back on the floor. If he comes back to soon and reinjures himself you can kiss he playoffs goodbye. I’m really upset with Popovich for not playing Mahinmi more during the regular season. The Net game would have been perfect for him had he played more often during the regular season. TD needed the rest and his performance versus Lopez showed it. I think that next year may be Duncan’s last. When he leaves Popovich will probably give it up as well. I’m a big Pop fan, but he has made a lot of poor decisions this year. There is no way the Spurs can beat Los
Angeles or Dallas in the playoffs. Too weak on the front line. If Mahinmi had been utilized more and developed his game, then the Spurs would be in much better shape now. Pop has a tendency to go with experience more than developing upcoming talent like Oklahoma has. The Spurs roster just isn’t good enough to compete against Dallas or LAL. On the remaining schedule I see losses to LAL, Phoenix, Orlando, Denver and Dallas. Just hope Memphis doesn’t get hot at the same time.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:17 am
Maybe I’m just drinking the Kool-Aid here, but there’s not as much a talent gap between teams as one would think. Any NBA team is capable of beating another on any given night. It’s going to happen. Down both Parker and Ginobili, and they still had a chance to win had they hit their free throws? Doesn’t make me happy, necessarily, but it’s not the end of the world.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:28 am
Miller- My sentiments fall in with development as well. Pop never developed anyone. You will hear the casual douche say TP or Manu, but TP relies on speed only, and Manu was an MVP before getting here.
Hog- I agree with your idea about the analysis of abandoning the power positions. We need D and rebounding so what do we do? We try to beat a dead horse with the “stretch 4″
Jesse- This blog is in denial from day one. People on here just mimick what POP says and any deviation is considered witch-craft. I might not be an NBA coach or ever coach anything beyond high school, but then again I will never have lost to one of the worst teams ever and be baffled why.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:36 am
Appreciate the kind words pastry.
So far as my post, to say not to expect brilliant offensive performances…I’m just trying to say it’s time to temper your expectations of Tim Duncan on a night-to-night bases.
The Atlanta game was not too long ago, so he’s certainly capable of putting up good numbers when the conditions are right. And while not a monster performance, TD absolutely owned Cleveland in the third quarter, which set the stage for Manu in the fourth.
The decline of Tim Duncan is a big story, but I’m not certain it’s a new story. We’ve seen it coming for a long time, and for the rest of Duncan’s career it is survivor mode-as in, can Duncan survive enough to raise his game in the playoffs. He has a good track record of it, so I’ll go with it until he proves otherwise. And then if he doesn’t, it becomes a much bigger story in the offseason.
So long as Duncan can provide an anchor for our defense (which was great last night-again), he is a championship piece.
But really, if you didn’t get swept up in the euphoria of our last two wins you would have expected last night to be rough. The Spurs go through major droughts when Manu Ginobili is not on the floor. Our entire offense clicks around him, as it will Tony Parker when he returns.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:36 am
Good teams have bad games. Sure it makes things difficult trying to find a good position for the playoffs, but we just have to move on.
Credit has to be given to picking up Hill from little oo-ee-poo-ee (IUPUI). If he stays under control and his success doesn’t lead to lack of self discipline, he can have a long-term career in this program.
Advice for the team, forget about the Nets. Concentrate on winning the next game and hopefully getting Manu back.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:51 am
@TP…couple things. To say that Tony Parker relies purely on speed is incorrect. There are a lot of speedsters in the NBA, many of them faster than Parker (Leandro Barbosa, for example). What sets Parker apart as the best of them all is his ability to change speeds fluidly, play fast but not reckless and to finish in the paint. Not all of those things were in Parker his rookie year, they were developed over time.
George Hill should be the MIP this season, that’s the coaching staff developing a player.
And so far as beating a dead horse, we did not lose last night on defense or rebounding.
March 30th, 2010 at 8:18 am
@Jesse,
One of the problems with TD’s game has been his knees (obviously) which make it so he has trouble catching the ball so close to the basket, because the opposing big man can push him out. Do you think that a wrinkle that Pop could put in for the playoffs is having more screens underneath.
I know, as a high school coach, that off ball screens down low help get open players. I just don’t know about NBA or not. The problem is that TD still has the talent, but he can’t punish people with his physicality anymore, he has to be a finesse player on offense.
Also, I must say that I was half-expecting to lose when I heard Ginobili was out. We can’t expect to beat most teams with 2 all-stars on the bench, and our third struggling with age.
March 30th, 2010 at 8:21 am
Things are never as good as they seem or as bad as they seem.
We beat Cleveland and Boston. Good wins? Yes, but that didn’t mean we were immediately a contender.
We lose to NJ. Bad loss? Yes, but that doesn’t mean our season is doomed.
Let’s be realistic - we are what our record says we are: a decent team struggling to make it to the playoffs.
If I had to define our season thus far with one word, I’d go with “inconsistent.” We’ve shown flashes of greatness, followed by giving games away. Last night is just another example. And as much as I hate to say it, this kind of play is what we should expect. Good games here, bad games there. This last 4 games, at least in my mind, has been a microcosm of the entire season. It might be tough to handle, but I think thats the reality unfortunately.
March 30th, 2010 at 8:33 am
Lots of people here complaining about Blair’s limited minutes. Seems like coming from college with suspect knees… that is why his minutes are down. His season would have been long over if he was still in college. There is a rookie wall to think about. Could he play a few more minutes? Probably, but you do need to take care of his knees and not kill them too much considering this is foreign territory for him. He’s a rook and hitting the rookie wall. It is what it is…
I agree with most of the comments about Duncan. His signs of wear and tear are rather large now at the end of the season. It’s a shame but his play is really being affected on the low block, too many jump shots outside his comfort zone and he shows a lack of elevation. I don’t think Haislip was the answer and he looked very unpolished when he was actually given some burn. AN athlete no doubt, but there’s a reason that he was a lottery pick and no longer plays in the NBA. Mahimi has his flashes of brilliance and usually 3-4 fouls in 10 minutes to go along with them. Against NJ it seems like he could have spelled Duncan a bit more. But we didn’t lose the game because Mahimi didn’t play more. Ratliff… that’s another story. He could have made a difference and helped Tim’s game (Larry Brown seemed to have no issue giving his old body minutes), but that is another story for another time.
When you shoot a higher % than your opponent from the floor including 3’s there has to be something that is your undoing. As much as we want to overlook it… 16 TO’s and shooting barley above 50% at the line??? That is the nail in the coffin. If you have two less turnovers and make even as little as 70% of your free throws, you win the game. The Spurs have been horrible in protecting the ball even in their two marquee wins with 15 or more TO’s. But they’ve been able to force turnovers as well. Spurs didn’t force as many turnovers and shooting only 50% at the charity stripe will not get you W’s on most any night. As yes in the Duncan era we’ve had absolute flops against horrible teams. This is not the worst loss in Spurs history. It’s a loss, and realistically the Spurs will do no better than 6th for a playoff spot. I’m not sure if we’d want to be 4th or 5th in any respect, so it’s not the end of the world; 7th or 6th will be just fine.
March 30th, 2010 at 8:43 am
[...] about San Antonio Spurs 84, New Jersey Nets 90 [...]
March 30th, 2010 at 8:47 am
@Jordan,
It’s a good idea, and if I remember correctly the Spurs ran some of that action against Cleveland. But other than a quick-hitting basket here or there I’m not sure it’s a cure though.
The problem is that in the NBA, there’s not much difference between 4’s and 5’s, so running the screen action, players can generally switch or hold off Duncan in time for the defense to recover.
The easiest answer would be for Tim Duncan to run the floor and establish position early, but that sort of require his knees to be okay too.
I’ve said it before and I’ll mention it now, people tend to think of aging as robbing a player of his jumping or speed, so we assume Duncan would age well. But Duncan did rely on fluid movements in the post, a lot of which has dwindled on most nights.
March 30th, 2010 at 9:00 am
Guys, I’m really worried that Manu ill in fact leave the Spurs this summer. We know that Manu will wait for the free agency to make a decision about where he will finally go and some teams are probably going to put together the team of the new decade.
After seeing what kind of team the Spurs are without him and if he really desires to win, he may decide to pack and go.
Crazy to think but also very possible!!!
March 30th, 2010 at 9:21 am
Manu may indeed leave. His exact words in today’s Express News article:
“I know I’m going to get a job. It doesn’t matter where or how.”
It doesn’t matter where? Can’t get much plainer than that.
March 30th, 2010 at 10:09 am
I think Ginobili could have played but Pop thought he could get away with not playing him. They need to take care of the games they are suppposed to win first and then worry about the tough ones because they might lose the tough ones anyway.
March 30th, 2010 at 10:09 am
I think Ginobili could have played but Pop thought he could get away with not playing him. They need to take care of the games they are suppposed to win first and then worry about the tough ones because they might lose the tough ones anyway.
March 30th, 2010 at 11:12 am
Regarding the turnovers, let’s consider that Manu is effectively our best back-up/2nd unit facilitator for the offense in addition to being an elite 2 guard. When we chose not to use a roster spot on a Jacque Vaughan/Brevin Knight/Anthony Carter kind of player (i.e. a vet with very limited skills but who simply knows how to run an offense competently), we took a gamble that Hill’s inexperience and Mason’s lack of true PG skills wouldn’t expose our lack of depth in pure-point skills. For one game, it bit us in the butt.
Panic if you must, but if you choose to do so, please panic for the right reasons — our health, not our play in any one game, is our biggest limiting factor moving forward.
March 30th, 2010 at 11:19 am
Joe -
I agree. We really don’t have a true PG outside of TP. George, for as much as he has improved and as much potential as he has, is still learning the position.
Also, as Jesse touched on, last night really exposed our lack of playmakers outside of Manu and TP. Our offense effectively ground to a halt in the final 3 quarters, which is the side of the ball in which we lost the game.
March 30th, 2010 at 11:43 am
- The decline & inconsistency in TD’s performance over the past 2 months indicates that his playoff performance is also going to be somewhat inconsistent. The idea that somehow Duncan is going to be this “rock” of a performer throughout the playoffs, because he’s done that in the past, is delusional.
- Losing to the 2nd worst team in the NBA because we’re missing Manu & TP is the type of excuse given by teams that are unlikely to compete effectively in a playoff series. We have enough talent and experience on the rest of the team to have won that Net game by 8-10 points or more. Our other guys simply did not “cover” for Manu. To me, that shows a lack of solidarity within the team. The rest of the team should have stood up and told Manu, look, “we got your back”; you rest and we’ll promise you a “W” tonight. That didn’t happen. Unfortunately, we as a TEAM, simply lacked the will, determination, mental focus, & confidence to ensure the win — a win that in the final analysis we may have indeed NEEDED to avoid LA in the first round (the only opponent where we’re just about guaranteed a first round exit).
No team in our position should have conceded a game against the Nets. We NEEDED that win. In reality, this was in effect a “statement” game, and not a very good one at that.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
@ JimJim
Exactly…Nothing more can be added.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
I have a Question :
STILL WANT L.A. IN THE FIRST ROUND ?
If you thought that was a letdown…………………..
March 30th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
@ Joe and Tyler,
Look again… this is not a panic from one game. This current version of the Spurs turns the ball over. It’s not just one game, it’s a season long disease. Some of it can be attributed to the Spurs using Manu/Mason/Hill as points but even when Tony was playing, the Spurs turn the ball over. This is the first season where there is a clear difference between how many turnovers are committed by the Spurs and how many are forced. This hasn’t happen since God knows when. Past incarnations of the Spurs caused more turnovers than they committed. It was part of their tenacious defense and ability to execute their half court game to an almost boring perfection. I for one like boring, but those days are gone. I think as Jim pointed out, a lot of this has to do with a lack of “mental focus.” That is one of the reasons we have trouble closing out tight games, that is one of the reasons the Spurs commit so many turnovers. It is not a panic because we had one game with a lot of turnovers. It is a panic because we’ve had a season full of games with a lot of turnovers. The anomaly this game was the poor free throw percentage. That is not a reason for panic, that is the anomaly. The lack of execution, a sense of urgency and mental focus… those are the causes for concern. One has to wonder when Manu gets back, how long he will be able to carry the team. The lack of execution of this team is very “un Spur” like.
As an aside, execution of such a complicated system does take time. It’s almost April. Has anyone else notice that having such a complicated system to learn has been the downfall of some of the new pieces, however Mike Brown (Pop disciple) employs a similar system in Cleveland and Antawn Jamison has picked up said system since the All-Star break like he’s been playing there all season. And to a lesser degree our own Theo Ratliff has gelled rather nicely (although nowhere near as impressive numbers as Jamison’s) in Larry Brown’s (Pop’s mentor) system. Something doesn’t fit with the logic.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
@TheRealBarackObama:
If health is a precursor for us having any hopes at all, and if the goal is winning a championship (even if that seems unlikely), then for my part, yes, I’d like the Lakers in the first round.
My rationale: there is a short lay-off between the end of the season and the start of the playoffs. The start of the playoffs is the most well-rested we can hope to be. If we have any chance of beating LA at all, I think our chances are better early in the playoffs than later. Let me turn it around and ask you this: if we somehow magically put together a string of gutty performances and make a deep run, who would you rather face in the conference finals when we’re exhausted and limping through injuries, LA or Dallas?
A second rationale favoring playing LA early even if you don’t think we stand any chance of doing well in the playoffs: Management has a huge decision looming this summer about resigning Manu and giving this core one last season together. Since LA has been our measuring stick throughout the decade, don’t we want one last look at how we match up against them in a full series before we decide whether we really need to blow up the team and go into full rebuilding mode? If we get blown out in 4 or 5 games, isn’t that a sign that our ship has sailed? Or conversely, if we play 6 or 7 tough games, is that an indication that the guys deserve one last run together?
March 30th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Dear Chicken Little & Numerous Spurs fans,
Contrary to popular opinion, the sky is currently not falling.
Please desist from public hysteria.
The end
March 30th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
@Dr.Who:
Your point is well-taken; this Spurs team is not on par with past incarnations in terms of taking care of the ball, execution, or consistency. However, I don’t think having flaws is cause to throw the team or its best players individually under the bus, and I don’t think that losing to a NJ team that has a motivation to finish strong and NOT be labeled the worst team ever when it clearly has some interesting talent (including Devin Harris, who always gives us problems, and a guy who should have been last year’s ROY) is a particularly damning case against us. Teams in similar situations to us but with less talent have made deep playoff runs in the past (Houston’s second championship year, where they started as a 6th seed, and the 1999 Knicks, where they started out as an 8 seed and went to the finals). All I’m saying is that rather than panicking, we’re at the part of the season where all we really can do is just lay back, watch how things unfold, and cheer our hearts out along the way no matter what warts we may bring with us.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Dr. Who/Jim H. -
Could our turnovers and lack of execution be not a result of mental focus, but the fact that we are simply not that great of a team? As you touched on Dr. Who, the overall trend in our turnover differential for the past few years is downward. That trend to me indicates eroding talent (or opponents’ superior talent), not anything to do with mental focus. I think it’s all finally come to a head this year. Look at a few more of the differentials from year to year and you’ll find we are getting worse in several categories. That just so happens to coincide with injuries and the increased age of our core. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. The lack of execution is essentially a byproduct of our eroding skills as a team.
If it sounds like I’m condeming this year’s team, I’m not. There’s still the chance for a playoff push. I’m speaking more to consistency.
Like I’ve posted before, the idea that this Spurs team should consistently beat good, quality teams is unrealistic. We are what our record says we are - a decent, yet inconsistent team struggling to make the playoffs. While we still show flashes at times, our overall play has been slightly above average.
Dr. Who, I agree with you: no one game should send the fanbase into panic. It’s the long term trends that I find alarming. I simply believe that this year, it should be apparent to all Spurs fans that, as presently constructed, is not a team that lends itself to any consistency.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
I’m oh so down with what Joe is saying.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
@ jesse
i know you aren’t a fan of mahinmi’s, but we should have at least given him some burn. yes he commits fouls, but he has shown some offensive efficiency. if our troubles last night consisted of a lack of point production (ahem, ANTONIO MCDYESS), i don’t think it is completely foolish to let ian play for a stretch considering he did blow up for 15 pts in their last meeting. yes, it was against the nets, but isn’t that another reason to burn him? no he isn’t a rotation player and no he wouldn’t help against the gasol’s and odom’s, but for a desperate game calls for desperate measures.
and what is the scouting report on his game? i’m curious. probably nothing different than what we have discussed here. athletic, foul prone
March 30th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Ians scouting report is exactly that.
Unpolished raw and prone to make poor decisions on both ends of the floor.
I still would love to see him get picked up for a million a year for a couple more years. At some point you have to hope he gets it, and that he is wearing black and silver when he does.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Duncan should take every second game off for the rest of the season and then the Spurs should trade him. What is the point of having a franchise player who by the end of each season gets stuck in mud. He should be at his physical best by the playoffs but as history repeats itself his wheels fall off and he becomes useless. What’s the point, trade him and get something for the buck. Your best players should be at there peak by the end of the season. Ginobili has timed this season but it is sad that he needs to carry Duncan and the rest of the teams load.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
@ buckets
BLASHPEMY!!!
i saw somewhere on the web the spurs almost traded TD for the rights to greg oden. *whew*
March 30th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Yeah lets trade duncan.
Because that would accomplish so much towards our apparent goal of winning a title, franchise caliber all centres being so thick on the ground and all…..
We already have three quality guards in a rotation with Manu, George & Tony, maybe we can get a 4th and play in the 6′5 and under league at the local rec club.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
It’s not that I’m not a fan of Mahinmi, as much as any of you I wanted (and in some ways still want) Ian to succeed with the Spurs because there are hints of talent there.
What I’m not a fan of is 30 comments talking about how much we should fire Popovich or how horrible a coach he is because Ian is not a starter or the Spurs did not develop him. Especially given that people can’t come up with a simple scouting report on the guy past being athletic and tall.
The Spurs gave him some run in the preseason, he wasn’t ready. With all the new faces it was more important to get the people who would help us in the playoffs acclimated with each other. Even if McDyess hasn’t worked out, it was absolutely the right call to make because getting the McDyess that could give you 10 and 10 a night was more important than developing Mahinmi for the simple fact that we were pursuing a championship.
Getting Roger Mason back to the Mason of last year was more important than what Hairston would’ve given us this year.
Make sense at all?
March 30th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Jesse not to mention that Ian couldn’t crack the French national teams rotation ahead of such luminaries as Ronny Turiaf, Florent Piétrus, and Ali Traore.
Yeah I don’t know who the last guys are either.
Fans just love eating up potential and tall. All day long.
March 30th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
Jesse
Agreed.
March 30th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
We beat the Cavs and Celts back to back, without TD (he’s saving himself) and TP, and then we lose to the Nets, without the formers, including Manu and RMJ…yet, our role players played well, as did RJ-as good as we should expect him to contribute, as he’s ever-so, overly-mentioned ‘getting there’.
To me, the Nets game was great for us. Sure, we lost, but the players we need come playoff time came through…and of course it’s against the Nets, but they too have lots of talent, albeit young…Imagine with TD, TP, and Manu playing at least relatively well come the playoffs, and I’d say we’re not that bad afterall.
March 31st, 2010 at 6:03 am
All season long I have been saying Pop has got to develop Mahinmi. He hasn’t done that. Now with a lame Duncan and no real big man to help defend the middle or protect other teams like LAL or Dallas from grabbing a ton of offensive rebounds the Spurs are in a really deep hole. In order to reach the NBA finals the Spurs are going to have to beat the Lakers and the Mavericks without home court advantage. Ain’t gonna happen. The Jefferson deal really backfired for San Antonio. Splitter will never become a Spur and sometime during the next season Duncan is going to face up to the fact that he can’t get it done anymore and call it quits. So Spur fans prepare yourselves for two or three years of hard times in which our team will not reach the playoffs. Lets face it you can’t win in the NBA without superior talent. We’ll probably lose Ginoble. As much as he loves San Antonio even he can see the Spurs don’t have the people to be a contender. He wants to have a chance for another ring.
March 31st, 2010 at 6:29 am
i am not going to lie, i have been one of those “what the hell is pop doing” guys, but i completely understand and agree with his decision not to play mahinmi this year. and maybe our expectations were a little high for antonio mcdyess. the guy is nearly 37.
i also agree that roger mason’s offensive production is more important than hairston’s athleticism.
that being said, you think there is any chance we will bring mahinmi back nxt year? and if so, under what circumstances? i could imagine him being on our summerleague, but under non-guaranteed circumstances.
i also found your comments @ spurs pregame chat to trade dejuan intruiging.
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