Friday, May 21st, 2010...8:05 am
The Splitter situation is still uncertain
In recent weeks, many have painted the Spurs as optimists regarding their chances of signing Tiago Splitter this summer. Although, Gregg Popovich does his best to quiet the crazies in the Splitter section. Getting a judgement from Splitter for or against the Spurs would be a great help to the Spurs, and the sooner the better. Much of their offseason maneuvering could fall into line around the Spanish League MVP’s decision.
The most recent news on Splitter is not encouraging, although Splitter has not given any official indication as to his thinking on the issue.
Reports suggest that Ettore Messina and Real Madrid are preparing to offer Splitter a contract in the range of 8 to 10 million euros. (Retraction: Bruno, of SpursTalk, correctly points out that the 8 to 10 million Euro figure is not from a reliable source. I should have caught this prior to publication. My blunder.)
If true, this certainly complicates San Antonio’s pursuit of Splitter.
Splitter is, seemingly, a pefect match for the Spurs. In a recent email exchange, Os Davis of BallinEurope piled praises on Brazilian big man’s head.
Speaking totally empirically, Tiago is just a wonderful player who displays that European skill set that makes such players so coveted when successful: He’s a seven-footer who can hit from a variety of places on the floor, is capable of the devastating pass out of the post, and at 15 feet, he’s deadly.
In terms of stats, Splitter is currently the no. 1 overall-ranked player in ACB: He’s 5th in scoring (16.2), 8th in rebounds (6.8), shoots at 58.9%. He also has the most field goal attempts per game, though it should be said his percentage doesn’t rank top 10. He’s third in free-throw attempts, shooting 79%, no. 1 at drawing fouls (an interesting stat that most European domestic leagues track), and third in defensive rebounds (4.92).
Potential downsides to Splitter: He did suffer a mysterious ankle injury that was originally reported as keeping him out day-to-day, but missed an entire month; there are some injuries in Splitter’s past, but nothing out of the ordinary.
Like so *so* many Euros, weight and conditioning may be an issue. At 7’0”, he’s just 245 pounds, meaning he gives up 20 pounds to the Mehmet Okurs and Dwight Howards, and 40 to the Andrew Bynums – so odds are most any team will need some complimentary muscle when putting Splitter in the 4 or 5 spot. And despite his height, Splitter has had 26 shots blocked in the ACB (another bizarro Euro-stat), or basically one per game.
In short, you’re potentially looking at lanky sharpshooting center somewhere in the Pau Gasol/Tim Duncan sphere.
Davis’ final sentence is very generous. If Splitter is able to operate in the Marcin Gortat sphere, the Spurs will have scored big.
But first the Spurs have to convince Splitter to cross the Atlantic.
64 Comments
May 21st, 2010 at 8:13 am
“If Splitter is able to operate in the Marcin Gortat sphere, the Spurs will have scored big.”
That one made me chuckle!
May 21st, 2010 at 8:16 am
Tim, my question is: beyond money, what does Splitter gain by remaining in Europe? Most professional atheletes desire to play/compete against the best to prove themselves against the best in the world.
Doesn’t he suffer being marginalized if he remains in Europe? That is, the great, best center in Europe to never play in the NBA?
May 21st, 2010 at 8:22 am
BigJ, I think the extra money will help him cope with the unfortunate label. There is marginalized, and there is marginalized with a better view.
And besides, international players don’t fall over themselves for the NBA like they used to. They’re happy to win championships elsewhere.
May 21st, 2010 at 8:24 am
Please happen
May 21st, 2010 at 8:29 am
You’re right Tim.
In that light, I hope Tiago has a little slice (note little) of Lebron’s “globalization” ego and it motivates his competitive desire to test himself in the NBA.
May 21st, 2010 at 8:38 am
Signing Tiago is a must this summer. We need a big to help TD anyway around it. If we can’t get Splitter, then we’ll have to trade for a big since we have no cap room and thats bad news for all you Tony Parker lovers out there. There ain’t no way no how we get a good big for RJ. Period.
May 21st, 2010 at 8:48 am
Sometimes people like being the big fish in the small pond, too. I don’t know if that’s the case with Splitter, but that along with the extra cash, could be incentive enough to remain in Europe.
May 21st, 2010 at 8:54 am
He only averages 6.8 rebounds? Very underwhelming.
May 21st, 2010 at 9:00 am
Am I incorrect, or has Splitter given his word to the Spurs front office on several occasions already? If he sidetracked *again* I would want no part of him as a coach or GM.
May 21st, 2010 at 9:11 am
He should be interested in crossing the ocean. Fab Oberto and Luis Scola used to be the best big men in Europe before coming to the NBA.
My only concern is that not all the Euro Stars have their ego in check to come over to the NBA and be role players (Manu was the ultimate player in Europe and in the FIBA world and came to the NBA to be just another player…he then blossomed, but…see Rudy Fernandez)
Now that Varejao and Nene’s teams selfcombusted the only Brazilian player with a shot at an O’brien is Barbosa. If Tiago is hungry enough, he will definitely come over to the NBA. There is always room in Europe for 7 footers after their 30s…but his shot in the NBA is right here right now
May 21st, 2010 at 9:25 am
please come over Splitter. Duncan operates best when he has a true center to start with him. If Spurs get him I really like their big rotation with Splitter, Duncan, Mcd, Blair, Bonner or maybe Harangody in the second round.
May 21st, 2010 at 9:27 am
Only marginally to do with Splitter, check this out: south American passion for sports.
http://www.saltcityhoops.com/?p=1393
@mike
You present a case for all those Europeans who think people from the States are generally ignorant and stupid.
The article clearly states “8th in rebounds in the league”.
2010 NBA 8th rebounder: Tim Duncan at 10.1
2009: Gasol at 9.6
2008: Boozer at 10.4
and so on…
DIFFERENT RULES
DIFFERENT STYLE OF PLAY
and last but not least
40 MINUTES, NOT 48
May 21st, 2010 at 9:44 am
Getting Splitter on board would be nice. However, due to all the hoopla around LBJ during free agency, our FO is smart enough to possibly steal Bosh. With Splitter we don’t know how he is going to adjust in the NBA and what type of an impact he will have. Maybe it will take him a season or two to realize his potential. And the Timmy clock is ticking.
I think the FO should focus on getting athletic, skilled bigs to match up with the length of the Lakers. I see LA as the most consistent threat in the west for the next 2 years. Maybe Splitter can be the answer, but we shouldn’t bank on it.
May 21st, 2010 at 9:53 am
@d.iyer
Well said, Splitter is not the short term answer.
I haven’t followed the blog recently, but I’m sure someone will have realized we couldn’t buy a 3pointer, nor defend the pick and roll adeguately?
The real answer would be a shooting big who can defend the post and the pick and roll.
Unfortunately Horry is retired and Odom is in LA…
May 21st, 2010 at 10:15 am
Jacob
May 21st, 2010 at 9:00 am
“If he sidetracked *again* I would want no part of him as a coach or GM.”
I absolutely agree. The Spurs front line of Duncan and Dyess are getting a bit old and desperately need a younger, more mobile 7-footer. Duncan doesn’t have the mobility and Dyess is closing in on 36. For the Spurs, Tiago is now or never. We can’t wait another year and if he turns us down this summer, chances are we will have to trade for a big. At that point, why even bother with Splitter a year from now. In my opinion, he comes over this summer or we trade his rights to another team.
Martin
May 21st, 2010 at 9:11 am
“There is always room in Europe for 7 footers after their 30s…but his shot in the NBA is right here right now”
You said it. Splitter will be 26 yrs old by January of next season and while thats still in prime playing age, he can’t afford to wait another 2-3 years if he wants to play in the Association. Think on this from his possible perspective. If Splitter comes over now, he could ink say a 3 year deal that will take him to 29 yrs old. After playing for 3 years and increasing his value, he could then get a nice pay raise and possibly a 5 year deal that would expire when he is 34. This would be reasonable from the teams perspective. However, if you push that time frame back 2-3 years, forget about that 5 year deal. He’ll be too old at that point.
May 21st, 2010 at 10:27 am
Maybe we can parlay Splitter’s potential into a proven big man by trading his rights. Selling potential to a fan base becomes more important to a team that doesn’t sign a big name free agent and could be the Spurs biggest asset. “Sure we lost out on Bosh, but we were able to trade for the best big man in Europe.”
I don’t think this would be the same as when we traded Scola…Scola was a proven winner in Int’l play. I might have to rethink this should Splitter lead his team to the ACB championships though…
May 21st, 2010 at 11:11 am
The European writer makes too much of his shots being blocked. He writes in one of the previous paragraphs that he is taking the most shots of anyone in the league. If you average the most shots and you are an MVP drawing doubles and creating out of the post, you are going to get blocked.
May 21st, 2010 at 11:17 am
I really think that most on here UNDERestimate what he brings to the table.
This would be the first time since David Robinson left that we would have a legitimate 7′ true center that is an offensive threat playing next to Timmy.
This is a guy, like Dave, that you could give the ball to on the post and tell him to “GO TO WORK”.
I dont think he will be as good as David Robinson was; and definitely not as athletic, but a true scoring center will be a stellar upgrade. this will get us back to our Twin Towers look that everyone in the NBA has tried to Duplicate.
May 21st, 2010 at 11:28 am
@Francesco you present a case for why Americans generally think Europeans are a-holes. Geez!
May 21st, 2010 at 11:53 am
Hobson13
May 21st, 2010 at 8:38 am
“There ain’t no way no how we get a good big for RJ. Period.”
Agreed, but you continue to exclude Manu as a possibility. Why is that? Because you’re wedded to the idea of getting an established all-star back and Manu is too old to carry that value (instead of, for example, getting two “quality” players back, and/or young players with distinct potential that fill critical needs)? Because he recently signed a three year deal? What is your thinking here? Manu is untradeable because he’s too good, too old, too expensive, or what? Remember, trading TP requires getting back a very solid point guard in return, plus a “big”, which means that “big” ain’t gonna be that great anyway. Parker’s value is simply not THAT high.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:10 pm
@kevin
even if your main interest lies in replying to me, you should make an effort to put something basketball related in it… you know, it’s a Spurs blog.
Anyway, just like I’m not offended in the least by generalizations, it’s good to know you aren’t either, and that you were discussing other American people’s sentiment, not yours.
Individuals who take exception at broad generalization are often in fact guilty of the accusation and, again, stupid for not realizing how their “righteous” rebuttal will make them look.
@BlaseE
Spot on: Duncan has always been one of the most blocked players.
I agree for Splitter is now or never: next year there will be a new CBA (downgrading salaries), possibly a lockout… he’ll never make what he can make in Europe.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:12 pm
@ Kevin and Francesco
I always love to read some well reasoned debate between gentlemen!
That’s just basketball guys (and we are out of the playoffs): that’s no good reason to call someone stupid, ignorant or a-hole.
@ Martin
I did not understand your remark about Fernandez: do you think he’s got an ego problem?
@ Johnny
I never saw him play, so this is *not* a rhetorical question: isn’t Harangody a little bit too small, slow and jumpless to fit in that frontline?
May 21st, 2010 at 12:13 pm
@ francesco
The Europeans who can take a single sentence, from a single individual, to justify a position about an entire nation of peoples (especially one about basketball?!?) do much to condemn themselves. Ignorance and short-sided thinking arent retstriced to geographical, or national boundaries, they are relegated to those who think themselves informed enough to arrive at a matter-of-fact conclusions.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:21 pm
“Individuals who take exception at broad generalization are often in fact guilty of the accusation and, again, stupid for not realizing how their “righteous” rebuttal will make them look.”
Another generalization to combat a generalization…. brillaint. If you’re going to start a fire with an inciting, misdirected comment don’t act surprised or immune when people correct you… places you right back in that “righteous” category you were quick to point out.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Splitter, not wanting to play in the toughest league in the world, is starting to sound a little soft to me. Splitter is not like Fran Vasquez is he? Scared to get dunked on? Brazilian compatriots Varejo, Nene, Barbosa are here. Argentine ballers from Ginobili, Scola, Oberto, Nocioni, Delfino, and even Herrmann came and then left. Spaniards such a both Gasols are here, Navarro gave it a shot and left. Spanoulis tried and left.
Now I’ve never seen him play, but Splitter is a grown man (not a youngster developing ala Rubio) with a reluctance to play in the best league in the world for a good team. That is starting to be a red flag for me for being scared or soft or both, which won’t bode well for playoff competition.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:44 pm
Jacob and Fransisco -
Take your girly chat elsewhere… this is about basketball
May 21st, 2010 at 1:16 pm
@Nick
But Nick, I never said mike is stupid, just that his comment was.
Anyway, glad you noticed how kevin went about it gentlemanly…
@Jacob 12,13
Fully agree with you, unfortunately the world over is filled with that kind of people. I merely wished to make mike notice how his comment reinforced those unsubstantiated opinions.
@Jacob 12,21
Did I act surprised? Wasn’t my intention
Am I immune to criticism? Certainly until it comes from people who demonstrate ability to criticize constructively.
Anyway, 2 medium sized posts with no basketball references in them… possibly I hit a soft spot?
Care to share something of value about the “Splitter issue”?
@Nick
Fernandez certainly deserves to play, but proved to be a case for new age spoilt Euro pro players: didn’t understand the constant complaining would hurt him, and when in the playoff he had a chance to show what he’s made of, he instead played like a pouty kid.
@lvmainman
He could be soft, or he could be good at math, or he could be willing to leave Spain for LA but not for the Alamo….
May 21st, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Timothy:
If he’s skilled enough, his weight won’t be an issue. Duncan played at 240 this year and did pretty well. Also, as many have pointed out, the Tim is mostly a center at this point in his career, especially with all the mobile 4s out there, so Tiago doesn’t have to body up to the Bynums and Howards of the league, only in spot minutes. That’ll be TD’s job.
What they really need him to do is be out there chasing around the mobile 4s like Dirk and Amar’e and Josh Smith. That’s where he’ll prove his worth.
May 21st, 2010 at 1:48 pm
@Francesco
…or he doesn’t want to play in the NBA in general as Tim noted earlier.
That said, I bet he does. Noting assets, he would be joining one of the best run professional sports orginizations in the world. A team which would maximize his skills and give him every opportunity to increase his basketball IQ. Plus, is there a better US ambassador to foreign atheletes in the US than the Spurs?
May 21st, 2010 at 2:05 pm
I see some pouting on here today. Splitter doesn’t owe us or the Spurs a contract. There are numerous valid reasons why Splitter may not come over, and most of them are very likely not disparaging of his manhood, or indicative of a lack of toughness, or a lack of pride to compete in the American-centric, top league in the world, the NBA. Europe’s league is very competitive now, their salaries are more comparable than they used to be, and he might actually enjoy living in Europe much more than here; he has friends, family, etc. living there. The fact is, Europe is his home, and he might just be more of a home-body. That is a legitimate, personal variable, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Other than that, we’re just engaging in idle speculation about his motives, or character.
Splitter may simply not want to come over for a variety of business/personal reasons. That’s why I’ve been trying to get people more interested in addressing our “big” problem with the assumption that Splitter doesn’t come over. If that were to be the case, what are our other options in addressing this very critical need of acquiring another tall, defensive-minded big?
May 21st, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Maybe I’m just being super cynical..but I’m not at all too impressed with Tiago Splitter. His game doesn’t look polished enough to make a clean transition into the NBA. I feel we should just go after some other big, and assume that he won’t come over this season, so when he doesn’t..no one is surprised
May 21st, 2010 at 2:11 pm
I honestly expect Splitter to come over, although he probably is worth 8-10M to an elite European club. I would hope we are willing to maneuver, if we have to, to offer him an enticing contract. Can we offer a fat raise in his second year?
As pointed out, he can go get paid over there later if his NBA career doesn’t measure up. He has a LOT to gain by coming to the Spurs, I expect it to happen this July.
We need a true center one way or another, and they are hard to find.
May 21st, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Jim Henderson
May 21st, 2010 at 11:53 am
“Agreed, but you continue to exclude Manu as a possibility. Why is that? Because you’re wedded to the idea of getting an established all-star back and Manu is too old to carry that value (instead of, for example, getting two “quality” players back, and/or young players with distinct potential that fill critical needs)?”
LOL!! I’ve avoided this argument with you, but here we go. I think you and I generally agree that the Big 3 aren’t going to get another championship as currently constructed. I think we also agree on the fact that one of the Big 3 plus maybe RJ will have to be traded in order to provide what we need as a team in the way of a bench and/or an Allstar caliber player who is not redundant (like Parker and Hill are even though most don’t see this.) Our point of contention is essentially who goes? Parker vs. Manu.
I will attempt to keep my answer brief. To me the answer is clearly Parker. 1) He should have a much higher value to other teams than an older and much more injury prone Manu. 2)By the same token, Manu has much greater value to the Spurs than to other organizations due to the large Hispanic populace in SA. Simply put, Manu is money in the bank. To my estimation, Tony has never had the same cult following in SA.
Who really would want Manu’s contract? It lasts until he’s 35 and at $13 mil/year is not a particularly great deal. Manu got this because he’s more valuable to us than to other teams and it was better to wrap him up than to allow him to try to get more $$ this summer 9)Tony is a free agent at the end of next year. There is absolutely a possibility that he walks, especially if he has a great year. This isn’t like the Manu Free Agency this year. I believe Tony will absolutely test the FA market to get as much $$ as he can. He knows that he has one more big contract left and this one is it. What happens to all you Tony fans if he walks and we get nothing in return? One word comes to mind: f**cked.
3) Tony’s market value is about as high as it can go. Sure he’s coming off an injury riddled season, but everyone knows he doesn’t have a long history of injury. I’m fairly certain that he will bounce back and be a top 8 PG this next season. We can’t afford to wait another season to wait for his value to go up (more on that in a minute) 4) And this is where many will disagree, but Tony’s game is built ENTIRELY on speed. You take away his speed and he has virtually nothing since he’s not a great shooter outside 20ft. Tony is 28 yrs old. How far into his next contract will he get before the speed is diminished? 2 years? 3 years? He’s a ticking time bomb. 5) We have another PG who can’t necessarily replace Parker, but can sure do a decent job. Who will replace Manu’s ability to collapse the defense? James Harden? Not in the next few years. 6) In all the years I’ve watched the Spurs, it is Manu who still has the ability to take over games. Sure, he’s no Kobe or Lebron, but when on his game, he’s a notch below them. At times, he can take over and enforce his will upon the game. While Parker is a good scorer, you simply can’t say that about Tony. 7) Someone recently pointed out that decent PG are not hard to find in the NBA. What is hard to find is a good 4 or 5. If given the choice, you always (let me repeat always) go after a big before a PG.
You will inevitable disagree, Jim, but I simply think Tony has more value to others than to us and Manu has more value to us as opposed to others. We will probably just have to agree to disagree. I am also quite certain that Pop and RC will listen (not necessarily bite) to any reasonable offer they receive this summer regarding Parker. I would be surprised if anyone will be lining up to get a piece of Manu.
May 21st, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Hobson & Jim,
As much as I value Manu, and think Tony can help us, I’d happily trade either guy for a legitimate Big.
Trouble is, there just aren’t that many. I really want to see bigs on our squad more than most anything else, if we could afford it I’d bring over both O’Neals, Tyrus Thomas, and we’d still be lacking someone who can both score and defend the pick&roll in the same 6 minute stretch. Dalembert hurts us as much as he helps us. I really don’t see Bosh coming to SA, and if he did, we could still use an ideal version of Tyrus Thomas in addition.
Seriously, I would give the lion’s share of salary to the 4-5 spots, if we could still have some dribble penetration and playmaking, and some outside shooting & perimeter defense to boot.
I’d like to see a list of guys who can truly put us over. Splitter may not be the complete answer, but he’s just about our best hope. I am still willing to trade for a 3rd or even a 3rd and 4th, even if we do sign him.
May 21st, 2010 at 3:11 pm
Hobson13
May 21st, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Well, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. I think some of your positions are valid, but others are what I would consider, relatively weak arguments. I’m not going to spend the time in detailing them for you. Suffice it to say, I have at least partial disagreements with, or believe the argument is relatively weak, for points 2, 5, 6, & 7. And I have a brief comment to make in response to your closing paragraph:
“I simply think Tony has more value to others than to us and Manu has more value to us as opposed to others. We will probably just have to agree to disagree. I am also quite certain that Pop and RC will listen (not necessarily bite) to any reasonable offer they receive this summer regarding Parker. I would be surprised if anyone will be lining up to get a piece of Manu.”
(1) I think you’re understating TP’s value to OUR team, and overstating Manu’s value to OUR team (the so-called Manu cult of ticket-holders is ultimately overblown as a case to keep Manu, in my view).
(2) I think you’re overestimating the potential interest in Parker during this off-season. There are few “good” teams in need of a PG, and those that are, may not be interested in TP at his salary. TP is NOT going to go to a “crappy” team. And the fact is, TP is NOT an “easy” fit with other systems around the league.
(3) I think you’re underestimating Manu’s value to a young, up-and-coming team, like OKC, for example. His steady leadership, ability to create of the dribble, and ALL the intangibles he brings to the table would be a godsend to that overly young Thunder team. He could clearly help them have a “legitimate” shot at a title in the next three years (this would require a leap from Ibaka, which I fully expect, and drafting another top “big” with their 3 picks this year). ALL GM’s want that chance NOW, not three to five years from now, IF possible. And with them, it IS possible, with the right moves.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but we do at least share this in common: we believe it is critical to trade one of the two (TP/Manu) to get ourselves back in position to challenge for a title. Quickly would be better, but not at the price of gutting our chances over the next 5-10 years. And we both agree that our resources to accomplish this outside of a trade of one of these players is simply too limited to get the job done.
May 21st, 2010 at 3:19 pm
By the way, in my view, we are simply not going to be able to acquire an established, “star” big, that represents the “right” fit on our team, by trading either TP or Manu. That’s why I’m in favor of looking for multiple, solid, young, pieces, with one having a legitimate chance of becoming a “star”. Harden fits that bill, as the number three pick in the 2009 draft.
May 21st, 2010 at 3:21 pm
@Francesco
You stated a good and specific point: a shooting big who can guard the pick and roll.
A shooting big would be a great complement to Duncan on offense because we can spread the floor and have a shooting big and a post up big. An inside outside game along with Manu as a slasher will open up other offensive options.
I just read on ESPN that Bosh has short-listed a few teams and the Spurs are not one of them. If that is true, what other bigs do you guys think we can pursue (that can make a significant impact)?
May 21st, 2010 at 4:11 pm
im from Spain and i know very well the Splitter situation..
the only reason he stays in spain is money, sources says that he is earning 1,8 millon euros net, that is about 4,5 millons dollars…. theres is a lot more comparing to what spurs offered him..
simple, every humanbeen will do the same
May 21st, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Thanks for the insight, Juan. That said, I don’t know if you’ve followed the currency markets lately. The Euro has dropped like an anchor of late in relation to the dollar. So, that NET 1.8 million Euros you were talking about is now equal to just 2.3 million dollars. So, let’s assume that over there in Europe, the net he was getting of 1.8 million EUROS (according to your figure) represents a gross salary of 4.5 million EUROS (at a tax rate estimated at 60% for that income bracket). The Spurs could offer Splitter with their MLE a gross annual salary of approximately 5.8 million DOLLARS. That 5.8 million DOLLARS converts, as of now, into 4.6 million EUROS (and he would probably have more tax advantages here). Thus, it appears that, as of now, if all all monetary & tax estimates are reasonably accurate, the Spurs are now in the “money” game that you say Splitter is most interested in.
I have a question for you, Juan. You say what Splitter’s NET pay is in Europe. Do you know what his GROSS pay is, BEFORE taxes are taken out? This would eliminate the tax rate assumptions from the equation. Thanks.
May 21st, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Jim Henderson
May 21st, 2010 at 3:11 pm
“Correct me if I’m wrong, but we do at least share this in common: we believe it is critical to trade one of the two (TP/Manu) to get ourselves back in position to challenge for a title. Quickly would be better, but not at the price of gutting our chances over the next 5-10 years. And we both agree that our resources to accomplish this outside of a trade of one of these players is simply too limited to get the job done.”
Jim, I’ve enjoyed a number of your insights and suggestions over the past months. I can also respect the fact that you disagree with a number of my points, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. However, I would agree that one of the Big 3 (not Duncan so I suppose either Manu or Tony) is going to have to be traded in order for us to get back to any semblance of a championship team. In retrospect, the Spurs really weren’t that close to being a top 3 team in the league this last year. With the pathetic bench, lack of size up front, and no consistent 3pt shooter, we simply had too many weaknesses. We have NO cap space so we can’t be a big player in the free agent market. I think we both agree that the draft, Splitter, and trading RJ will only give us a small chance to fill our needs and after that the only trade assets we really have are either Tony or Manu. Hope we don’t have to let either one go, but a number of dominoes would have to fall in order to avoid it.
May 21st, 2010 at 10:24 pm
Hobson13
May 21st, 2010 at 7:17 pm
“In retrospect, the Spurs really weren’t that close to being a top 3 team in the league this last year.”
Yeah, not even close, really. We have to always remember that the margin between being a “second round” playoff team and having what it takes to win a championship always “appears” smaller than it really is. For example, being ever so slightly inferior to other teams in certain key areas makes it seem like we’re close to being better than those teams, when in reality, we’re still a ways off. Or conversely, having a more noticeable weakness in just one or two areas lulls one into thinking that “we are close”, because our true problems are limited to just a couple of areas, and we can fix them. And so, I think that’s where we’re at right now. Also, Portland, OKC, Houston, Phoenix, & Memphis should all improve next year. And that’s just in the West (not to mention the Clippers!).
So yeah, no question, our FO has a huge task on their hand during the off-season, at a critical inflection point in modern franchise history. We are very close to sliding off the playoff map in the next few years. And we could dwell there for quite awhile if we’re not careful.
Anyway, Hobson, I appreciate your insights as well, and look forward to seeing what’s on your mind in future posts.
May 22nd, 2010 at 12:09 am
Splitter is not the best big man in Europe. Spurs fans are totally overrating this guy. The best big man in Europe is Ioannis Bourousis. He’s much more talented than Splitter will ever be.
May 22nd, 2010 at 4:59 am
You little girls on here crooning Splitter makes me sick. Hes worse than McDyess.
Think about this. He is 7′ tall and barely gets one offensive board a game. He doesnt even average a block a game. Hell he doesnt even average 6 RPG!
LOOK AT HIS PLAYOFF STATS THIS YEAR
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=CBY
11pts 4 rebs? 30% FT?
QUICK SIGN HIM!!!
This might have meant something 6 years ago when Tim was still Tim, but not now. Screw Tiago.
May 22nd, 2010 at 5:22 am
He either wants to play with the big boys or he does not. The money will come once he earns respect in the NBA, you know, the league with the best players in the world. If this is just a $ issue and not a challenge to the kid, let him stay in Spain. We dont want him. If he wishes to play along side the best PF ever in the NBA and learn even more (practice everyday with him), welcome to the big leagues and a chance to step in line with David and Tim.
May 22nd, 2010 at 4:00 pm
@Jim Henderson
You stated that Splitter does not owe the spurs anything and does not have to come over. Then why did he put his name in the NBA Draft? When you put your name in the NBA draft you are putting your intention to play in the NBA. Teams draft players who they believe they can bring over and play. Teams do not invest a first round Draft pick to have them never play. So in your opinion its okay for players to place their name in the draft and only play if they are selected top 3 and make the most money? If all the first round picks we drafted stayed over seas the spurs would not be able to field a team. What would our team be without tony parker(1st), ginobilli(2nd) and duncan(1st) who are our foreign players. Their main homes are not in the U.S. Splitter would not owe the spurs anything if he did not put his name into the draft. Then he could play in whatever league or country he wishes for. Him not coming over for money is screwing over the spurs in essence losing a first round pick. Last time I checked most players that contribute to teams are first round picks.
May 22nd, 2010 at 4:47 pm
spursfanbayarea
May 22nd, 2010 at 4:00 pm
“When you put your name in the NBA draft you are putting your intention to play in the NBA.”
“Intention” yes, but that’s different than “committing” to “signing on the dotted line”.
“So in your opinion its okay for players to place their name in the draft and only play if they are selected top 3 and make the most money?”
Be careful, now, I never said that.
The point I made was that the Splitter situation is a business decision made by the Spurs coach and FO, one in which they knew all along entailed unique risks to the Spurs, because the obligations and contract issues of a foreign-based player in this type of situation is not as cut and dried as it is when drafting a state-side draftee, particularly compared to NBA 1st round picks. Thus, the Spurs knew that it was “more of a risk” that they would ever sign Splitter, drafted at #28, than if they were to draft a state-side draftee. They took the risk because they liked what Splitter could offer them, apparently to a significant extent over what was left on the draft board by the time pick number 28 rolled around. I’m sure Splitter never “guaranteed” the Spurs that he would sign by such and such date, for X amount of dollars. If Splitter doesn’t ultimately sign with us, he is not “screwing the Spurs”. That said, obviously, it would be disappointing if the gamble the Spurs took did not pay off soon. But putting most of the blame on Splitter for that is not being fair, in my estimation.
May 22nd, 2010 at 11:24 pm
Trade TP makes a pretty good point. I wouldnt me opposed to trading his draft rights for a solid draft pick. I know a lot of people would be in an uproar about the next Louis Scola but come on, 4rebs per game? If the Grizzly Blair received solid minutes he could at least triple that.
Just a thought, what if we traded his rights away and instead brought in a big man like a David Lee, Marcus Camby or someone. Then just had 3 solid draft picks to fill some hole leaving more money to sign a better FA.
May 23rd, 2010 at 12:40 am
Granted, Splitter’s stats aren’t great, but he did average 13 ppg. & 5.4 rpg. in just 26 mpg. That’s really not too bad. Only eight of the other 50+ centers in the league appear to be in his basic realm, stat-wise. Most do not score or rebound at a higher per minute clip, but there are a few. Here’s links to the eight other centers that appear to have comparable, or better, stats per minute:
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=001936
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=AQU
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=BBE
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=002507
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=KNN
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=BWK
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=001922
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=000654
May 23rd, 2010 at 12:07 pm
@Jim
Most of NBA teams are composed of first round picks. Very few Second round picks become big contributers to NBA teams. When a player enters the draft teams expect to sign these players. Signing first round players should not be a risk. They are the backbone of teams. The risk is whether the player will pan out or not. First round picks are given guaranteed salaries due to their importance to the respective team that develops them.
Whether you are a player who lives here or there, when you enter the draft you are stating an intention to play here. The draft does not guarantee players draft position. Imagine what would happen to the league if any player who didn’t get drafted where he wanted to went over seas where he could make more money. This is a scary precedent that is starting to ruin teams futures. Does a team take an inherent risk at lottery level as well? Minnesota is in the same boat. They drafted Rubio very high and now are without a top 5 pick.
The NBA respects other leagues contracts even though players like splitter and rubio are screwing over their teams. Rubio would have played in the NBA if he was not drafted by the Wolves. Do you think the Wolves calculated risks of signing him and consider it a risk worth taking? Should they be penalized a top 5 pick because they drafted the best player available? The worst teams need top talent to become competitive. Not having a top 5 pick is a big blow to a team. But according to your reasoning you would also support Rubio staying over in Europe.
By your reasoning the NBA draft is a joke. Why have a draft if players do not have to commit to signing. Why not have open free agency at all times? The reason is because players would only play in certain markets. The small market teams would never get better. The Spurs would never have won any championships. Duncan, Ginobilli and Parker would have signed with big market teams that could have paid them more.
You seem to forget that no one forced Splitter to enter the NBA draft. If he had no choice about entering the draft, then your points are valid. Unfotunatly he volunteered his name into the NBA draft.
May 23rd, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Spurs fan bay area- I dont agree with your response to Jim Henderson.
Have you ever been offered a job from multiple companies? You go to both interviews trying to find a fit with your style and personal goals. Although I think Tiago is a dick since I am a SPURS fan, you cant blame the guy.
HE WAS UPFRONT FROM DAY 1. We took a risk and it didnt happen to work the way we wanted it to.
Drafting becuase you cant “teach tall” is bullshit. Look at Dwight Howard. Supposedly one of the best big men in the NBA… I would have paid HUGE dollars to see Karl Malone go after him.
Tiago doesnt even fill the void for what we need.
Hes not a shot blocker, an offensive rebounder, a rebounder period, or a defensive specialist. Hell hes 7′ and cant control a game, unless 13 ppg is what you call tempo control.
We have easily what Tiago will get us in Blair. Unfortunately we dont play Blair Duncan together and most likely would not play Duncan Splitter together.
Claiming that Tiago is the “answer” is like paying Larry Hughes or Telfair or S. Bradley…..
May 23rd, 2010 at 1:12 pm
@Trade Tp
My comments do not claim that Tiago fills any of our voids. The discussion is about the principality of the matter. You are right, that splitter has a choice of who he wants to work for. He was not forced to enter the draft. He could have kept his name out of the nba draft and played over seas for his whole career. But when you enter the nba draft, you are chosing to work for the NBA. You and Jim Henderson neglect the fact that he was not forced to apply to the draft. I do not recall a gun being placed next to his head when he applied for the draft. Applying for the draft is not similar as interviewing for a job. What would the spurs be without their first round picks. Imagine if Robinson and Duncan wanted no part of playing in S.A? How does the NBA keep competitive balance if the draft is rendered meaningless? So anytime a team drafts a pick they must assume a risk that the player will not sign? Teams need to infuse talent every year. The method for that is the NBA draft. No one makes you enter the NBA draft. That is the key point. When you chose to enter the draft, teams own your rights. If you want to play for another team, you can play out your contract, and there is a thing called free agency. The player can then go and play for whoever and whatever salary he can achieve. First round picks are paid a handsome salary that most people would never ever achieve. How do you and Jim propose that teams replenish talent that is affordable? You can not fill a team with all free agents. First off the cap doesnt allow for it, secondly only a few teams could even afford it. Also with your analogy of interviewing for jobs, companies can replace you with someone else if you chose not to take the job. In the NBA draft, the team is left without a player. Hardly the same, or fair. What would the spurs roster look like if our last ten first round picks did not want to play? What is left of the team?
May 23rd, 2010 at 1:29 pm
“when you enter the draft you are stating an intention to play here…..”
An “intention” is NOT the same as a guarantee, not by a long shot. And thus, the Spurs knew there was more of a risk involved in signing him. Granted, the risk is normally a relatively small one, but it is more of a risk that they (foreign-based stars) come over during your perceived time frame than it is for a state-side player (and you’re right, Rubio is another example). And that is the legal reality, whether you or anyone likes it or not.
“By your reasoning the NBA draft is a joke. Why have a draft if players do not have to commit to signing.”
It’s not MY reasoning! THOSE ARE THE RULES. If your contention is that the rules should be changes for any future draftees, foreign or not, fine, I might agree. But the point is you can’t hold a foreign player mostly responsible for staying in Europe, if that is his choice under the rules. The Spurs took what is normally a small risk, and thus far have lost.
“You seem to forget that no one forced Splitter to enter the NBA draft. If he had no choice about entering the draft, then your points are valid. Unfotunatly he volunteered his name into the NBA draft.”
No, I don’t forget anything. And again, UNDER NBA DRAFT RULES, a player that “voluntarily enters” the draft, and is drafted, DOES NOT have to come to terms on a CONTRACT with the team that drafted him. That is a simple fact, that apparently you and others still need to come to terms with.
Trade Tp
May 23rd, 2010 at 12:25 pm
“Although I think Tiago is a dick since I am a SPURS fan, you cant blame the guy.”
That is a blunt way of putting it, but is acceptable and understandable.
May 23rd, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Hey Tim, Jesse, Andrew, etc.:
I’ve been trying to make a post on this thread, and I’m getting this error message:
“‘Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!’”
For one, I don’t see the comment in question in the comment section anywhere. And two, I’ve seen duplicate posts numerous times in the comment section on this blog before. Any explanations, or a way to solve the problem? Thanks.
May 23rd, 2010 at 4:03 pm
SpursfanBay=
My comments do not claim that Tiago fills any of our voids. The discussion is about the principality of the matter
I was only addressing the issue with the draft. If you go to a second or a final interview for a job do you HAVE to take the job? No. And thats my point. Again, I agree with you on some points about loyalty, shady dealings (somewhat). But the fact remains Splitter had not ever told anyone he WOULD 100% play for the league.
I dont understand how this is different than college kids not hiring an agent?
May 23rd, 2010 at 4:13 pm
@Jim
You are correct that a player does not HAVE to sign with a team. The point I am making is that the Spurs drafted Splitter in good faith believing he wanted to play in the NBA. If Splitter did not want to come and play, he was not required to enter the draft. They invested a first round pick in the guy. If he were to never come over, the spurs lose a first rounder and thus are SCREWED out of a pick. The intention of the draft is meant to help teams replenish their rosters. Obviously they can not make someone sign a contract if they do not want to. But that doesn’t change the fact that said player screwed the team out of a pick. When a player enters the draft to only play for the team of his choice or based on a high draft pick for money, then they are circumventing the intention of the draft. The NBA rules do not dictate that a player must sign. But with recent problems rubio, splitter, the nba will need to consider making draft entree binding(for first rounders). If the NBA honors overseas contracts, over sea players and teams should honor players draft commitments.
So Jim, how are teams supposed to replenish rosters without first round picks?
Is every draft pick a lotto ticket? Do you pray that they hope to sign?
How can a team then invest in a pick when they can not negotiate contracts until the player is drafted?
So the Spurs Front Office shouldn’t draft the best player for the team, they should draft a player who they pray will sign a contract and play for them? If the spurs only drafted players who they knew who they could sign, they would end up drafting me and you. Unfortunately our drafting would not help the Spurs Franchise. But at least they knew for sure they could sign us! The NBA has not encountered problem with players signing with teams. Therefore there was no need for letter of the law statements. But when this occurs more often, there will need to be a change.
May 23rd, 2010 at 7:18 pm
@TradeTP
A player who does not hire an agent can go back to college only if he pulls his name out of the draft prior to the actual draft. Once you keep your name by draft deadline, doesn’t matter if you have agent or not. Splitter did not pull out his name prior to the draft deadline. That is the difference.
May 23rd, 2010 at 7:29 pm
@TradeTP
College players do not hire agents if they are unsure of their draft status. They can return to college prior to the draft by the allowed deadline. After the deadline to remove your name it doesn’t matter if you have an agent or not. You are not allowed to go back to college. College players who go undrafted can not go back to college.
They have made a decision on their future. They have given their intention to try and play in the NBA. They have then given up their amatuer status. You have brought up a great point that illustrates my point. If a state side player has to make a decision, why do you believe that Euro players are exempt to this.
The situation of not hiring an agent is completely different than keeping your name in and then not wanting to play for the team that drafted you.
May 23rd, 2010 at 8:27 pm
spursfanbayarea
May 23rd, 2010 at 4:13 pm
The point is, there is always more of a chance that foreign-based players will not agree to a contract with the team that drafts them than state-side players. The Spurs knew that, but felt that the risk was small enough that they would decide to draft Splitter anyway. There’s a variety of reasons for why Splitter has not yet been willing to come to terms with the Spurs as of yet, but none of them, in my opinion, involve Splitter deliberately attempting to “screw” the Spurs. Obviously, the Spurs would rather have signed him by now, and I can understand them feeling disappointed that it hasn’t yet happened. That said, the obligations of players and teams are obviously not left to “gentleman’s agreements”. RULES do exist, and they are there for a reason, to serve a particular purpose that the LEAGUE (NBA) deems appropriate for the overall health of the league. You may have a good argument that the league rules in these types of situations should be revisited at this point. However, according to existing league rules, Splitter is operating in an acceptable fashion, as a business person acting in his own self-interests, regardless of whether the Spurs are happy with the situation.
May 23rd, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Send Splitter to Minnesota for the #4. Done and done.
May 23rd, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Why would the T-Wolves do that?
May 24th, 2010 at 12:14 am
Talkbasket.net is a fully accredited European Union press website. Their blogs and writers have EU press credits. It is also a full partner of ULEB (Euroleague and Eurocup and all the European domestic leagues under it). Check it out if you don’t believe it.
Go to Euroleague.net and click on media partners. You will see that talkbasket.net is fully registered as a full news media partner.
I am sorry, but this website is taking some poster named “Bruno” from some talk board and saying he is more reliable than a fully accredited news media website with EU press passes that is an official news media partner of the Euroleague?
That’s quite funny.
May 24th, 2010 at 12:26 am
The guy Bruno from that message board is clearly making things up.
Spanish media reported Real Madrid would seemingly pay any price for Splitter:
http://www.noticiasdealava.com/2010/02/23/baskonia/el-madrid-abre-la-puja-por-splitter
Obviously that guy Bruno is pulling your leg.
May 24th, 2010 at 7:38 am
How is the situation with Splitter any different from putting out several resumes, interviewing with multiple employers, and then only picking one of those (and consequently turning down the rest)? He can do what he wants, which includes staying in Europe. View the draft as a job offer, and things don’t seem so strange.
May 24th, 2010 at 9:24 am
Sarge,
That was my original point in the comment to Spursfanbayarea.
Maybe his family didnt want to move, maybe he knew he would blow in the NBA, maybe he didnt like POP or the Spurs.
What people like bayarea need to understand is that our FO took a chance, just like everyone else does, in the draft. It didnt work out like expected. MOVE ON.
Tiago wont SAVE OUR DYNASTY. Hell he probably wouldnt even make that big of an impact. The continual excuses for the coaching and the FO and the players is why we arent contenders.
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