254 Comments

• Tweets that mention Free Agency Strengthens Spurs, Weakens Foes | 48 Minutes of Hell -- Topsy.com
  July 3rd, 2010 at 12:22 pm

  [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Andrew A. McNeill. Andrew A. McNeill said: Addition by subtraction, the Spurs best offseason move http://dlvr.it/2GtJQ [...]

• c/o
  July 3rd, 2010 at 12:28 pm

  What players or deals are out there that would merit trading TP? I think he’ll be a Spur for a long time.

• idahospur
  July 3rd, 2010 at 12:42 pm

  So some competition is eliminating themselves, but that still leaves a huge gap between the Lakers and anyone in the West. I don’t know if there will be a strong enough team in the East to compete in the Finals.
  It would be to our advantage to off-set the strength of the Lakers. One thing needed is a fast quick 3-pt shooter. If Ray Allen was on his game in he Finals, the Lakers could not keep us with him as he ran through two screens. That is the kind of player we need (but Ray Allen doesn’t have enough in the tank). The Lakers would be winded with that player, plus Parker, Manu and Hill driving to the hoop.
  I have confidence in a front line featuring Duncan, Splitter (please sign with the Spurs!), Blair, Dice, and Bonner (if he re-signs) vs. Gasol, Odom, and Bynum.
  The final key is someone is disturb Kobe’s rythmn.
  He was harassed in the Finals, making him almost worthless (and not deserving of the MVP in my opinion).
  Regardless of what moves we make, the Lakers will still look better on paper and for most of the season. But with these good signings, health, and some luck, this team can take down that team from LA.
  On another note, will Duncan be resting during the summer as he did last year?

• Tobias
  July 3rd, 2010 at 1:02 pm

  Great article. You are right, keeping our core and adding some players to strengthen our weaknesess is the best thing that we can do. Next year’s contenders are going to be the same than this year’s. All the FA trading is not going to change anything all least for the next season.
  Let’s get Tiago, let’s hope that RJ comes back showing us why we signed him the first time and just hope for the best with James Anderson ( He might be our Ray Allen).

• Hurm66
  July 3rd, 2010 at 1:07 pm

  There is an article on ESPN about the Raptors getting disenchanted with the prospect of doing a sign and trade with Bosh (I don’t blame them either). Apparently the Raptors have received several offers including one from the Spurs.

  Wonder who was offered?

• roboSID
  July 3rd, 2010 at 1:14 pm

  There bigs arent tuff and prone to injury.You go up against there bigs with heart and they just foul. Manu TP Hill will drive the ball down there hole…Ryan Richards will be the player @Vegas causeing problems.then an argument for him playing center shooting 3′s will come up and he will catch time like wallace,garnett and horry there rookie year at the wing with Splitter ,Duncan,Richards being the nu big team.Decolo is a 6’6 point guard as good as Tony was his rook year.The better take a hard look at him.

• roboSID
  July 3rd, 2010 at 1:16 pm

  I say Tony an pieces for Bosh

• Timothy Varner
  July 3rd, 2010 at 1:18 pm

  Hard to say…Parker, Dice and a pick? I’m guessing the Bosh offer is the complication in a potential Splitter deal.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 3rd, 2010 at 1:33 pm

  With RJ off the books, it’d almost have to be Parker with Dice as the larger contracts on the books.

• doggydogworld
  July 3rd, 2010 at 1:41 pm

  It wasn’t just JRich that was hot. After torching us from the arc Channing Frye went 1 of 14 in his next three games. Overall he was 55% in the playoffs against us, 28% otherwise. And don’t forget Dudley, Dragic, etc.

  It was just their time. All the bad breaks that conspired to help them lose against us in the past reversed this year.

• Hobson13
  July 3rd, 2010 at 2:03 pm

  “…the power shift could put the Spurs back in prime position for a Western Conference Finals date with the Lakers.”

  Which they will promptly lose. Our team is not ok, unless we are just satisfied with a 5 game trip to the Western Conference Finals. Our only wildcard is that Splitter is very good, and our young guns (Anderson, Hill, and especially Blair) improve. I will admit that the Spurs have several young players who could be good. The Lakers don’t necessarily have that upside. For those that watched the Bos/LA finals (I should say hand-to-hand combat Finals) do you really believe our front line can seriously contend with that of LA/Bos/Orl? I don’t think they can as currently constructed.

  It is interesting to see that there seems to be a shift in power from the Western Conference to the Eastern Conference. However, let’s not allow this to fool us. We need to get BETTER and not rely on others getting worse.

  Hurm66
  July 3rd, 2010 at 1:07 pm
  “Apparently the Raptors have received several offers including one from the Spurs. Wonder who was offered?”

  I don’t know, but I bet he was from France and has a famous wife. On a serious note, I don’t think Bosh wants to be a Spur. He certainly hasn’t indicated such a desire.

  Timothy Varner
  July 3rd, 2010 at 1:18 pm
  “I’m guessing the Bosh offer is the complication in a potential Splitter deal.”

  Splitter still hasn’t signed so do you think the Raps and Bosh are seriously considering the offer?

• Jason Roberts
  July 3rd, 2010 at 2:28 pm

  If the Spurs are (re) acquiring All-NBA PG Tony Parker, then isn’t it fair to say the Rockets are (re) acquiring All-NBA C Yao Ming?

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 3rd, 2010 at 2:36 pm

  Might be a good point Jason, but at least we got a look at Parker starting to return to form at the end of last season. Can’t say the same about Yao.

  Also, a return from plantar fascitis is much better than what Yao has gone through.

• duaneofly
  July 3rd, 2010 at 2:43 pm

  Yes it is Jason. However, the Rockets didn’t even make the playoffs without Ming. So having him back, and healthy, will definitely boost them into a playoff team.
  We were already a second round playoff team who beat the #2 seed in the first round. The team who kicked our ass is losing one of their best players. So if Tony comes back, completely healthy, he’ll push us further than Ming will push the Rockets.

• Tim From Texas
  July 3rd, 2010 at 3:26 pm

  mod, when are you gonna confirm my posts? i wanna get in on the talk!

• Lucas Mayer
  July 3rd, 2010 at 4:02 pm

  See what Marcus Williams is doing now!
  http://www.indysportsnation.com/sports/isn-070310-,0,7980049.story

• Jim Henderson
  July 3rd, 2010 at 4:10 pm

  From the main post:

  “It would appear that the top of the Western Conference belongs to the Lakers, followed by a grouping of the Spurs, Mavericks, and Thunder.”

  Don’t count out the Rockets, with a healthy Yao, or Portland, if they can keep their ENTIRE team HEALTHY, nor Denver, if Karl & Kenyon Martin come back healthy, and they add a helpful piece during the off-season.

  “Therefore, it would be in Tony Parker’s best interest to workout a reasonable extension with the San Antonio Spurs in order to avoid an unfavorable CBA and an entire year’s loss of salary in the lockout season.”

  Actually, it would be to TP’s financial advantage to do a BIG sign & trade deal NOW to either NY, NJ, or Miami.

  duaneofly
  July 3rd, 2010 at 2:43 pm

  “Yes it is Jason. However, the Rockets didn’t even make the playoffs without Ming. So having him back, and healthy, will definitely boost them into a playoff team.”

  Rockets were not “that far” off from making the playoffs. They faded in the final month. Ming missed the WHOLE year. Parker played in 56 games, averaging 31 mpg, and 16 ppg. & 5.7 apg. Plus the Rockets picked up Kevin Martin late, at the trade deadline, while Battier missed much of the final month with an injury. One cannot discard the Rockets as a potential play off threat next year.

  “We were already a second round playoff team who beat the #2 seed in the first round.”

  We were a 7th seed that almost didn’t make the play offs at all.

  Plus, we don’t have Splitter yet, and we don’t know what the Rockets might get during the off-season to further boost their club. And they also have an excellent coach, & FO.

• jason
  July 3rd, 2010 at 4:40 pm

  This is the most intellegent assesment of next year’s competition I’ve read so far, its true much of the spurs competition in the west are taking steps in the wrong direction, but the west will still be stacked next year and we’ll see another playoff race with 2-7 seperated by 4 games or so.

  I agree with idaho spur, its a travesty that kobe was finals mvp, gasol eminantly deserved it more. And the fact that boston took the lakers to seven should be an encouragement for spurs fans because in a way it reaffirms that the spurs style of play is effective agaist the lakers.

  Honestly, I think we have more talent than boston does. Their front line doesn’t scare me at all, garnett’s in worse shape than duncan and if we get splitter than we will definately rival the lakers big men, especially when you consider that bynum still hasn’t played a full season without injury. I’m gonna be the first to say that kobe is starting to become a liability on the court in many ways, and the man might have to get surgery on the index finger of his shooting hand this summer, the lakers are getting old.

  Our big problem right now is making sure we lock up splitter and find a 3-pt shooter / perimeter defender at the sf position. If we can do that I think we’re one of the most complete teams out there

• Jacob
  July 3rd, 2010 at 5:13 pm

  What is it going to take to get some reliable splitter news??? Starting to get anxious.

• quincyscott
  July 3rd, 2010 at 5:43 pm

  idahospur:

  Who picked the Celtics to come within a hair of beating the Lakers this season? The Celtics are an older team, and they took a long time to gel, but come playoff time they were very, very hard to beat.

  There are two ways to beat a great team. (A) Do what they do, but better. (B) Do it differently. If you match up talent position by position, perhaps nobody can compete with the Lakers on paper. But series are not necessarily won that way. The Celtics showed that the Lakers can indeed be beaten with depth, stingy defense, and precision offense. If the Spurs can add quality depth and get their defense into the form of a couple of seasons ago, I like their chances.

• Greyberger
  July 3rd, 2010 at 6:12 pm

  I agree that OKC and the Mavs, with a smart coaching staff and front office running things, are good bets to be in the upper half of the west’s playoff bracket.

  The Rockets, Blazers, Jazz and Nuggets aren’t necessarily worse than those two - just more unstable. Since all these teams could be considered wildcards, it stands to reason that at least one of them will overcome the spectre of injuries and off-court issues to join that duo.

  So Lakers, Thunder, Mavs, Spurs, and one of those four - sounds like the west is as strong as ever.

• charles
  July 3rd, 2010 at 6:33 pm

  (sorry if my english is bad)
  i remember when all said that manu was finish for all his injuries, is true he had a lot but in the end this year we saw how much he improve, i think tony can do the same but if he said that he wants to be a free agent after the next season , the fo must see all choices we can get and with richard too and do trades
  i really like the idea of rj to nj for a trade exception or tony and others for bosh
  the true thing is there’s a lot of possibilities that the fo can do

• Trade Tp
  July 3rd, 2010 at 8:26 pm

  The Spurs didnt “play the wrong matchup” we were outcoached. Pop is a loser, and I cant wait to hear the excuses when Jefferson goes about transitioning in new players… etc.

  Best free agent move= new coach

• rez
  July 3rd, 2010 at 8:33 pm

  Which free agents are the spurs considering/trying to sign besides splitter? all we hear about is possibly signing splitter… who else would be a good fit in san antonio?

• doggydogworld
  July 3rd, 2010 at 8:35 pm

  Mike Brown is available.

• San Diego Spur
  July 3rd, 2010 at 8:59 pm

  Between Ballhog and TradeTP a topic, or rather a statement, can be run into the ground. Sure you both have absurd opinions about a coach that will go into the Hall of Fame, but do you really have to keep saying it?

  We are talking about how to transform the team via players. Nobody but the uninformed would advocate or choose to change the Coach!

  As for trades, personally I think the trade exception and Gallinari would work. Could we not use the trade exception as an offer for Bosh?

• Greyberger
  July 3rd, 2010 at 9:25 pm

  I don’t think we got out-coached necessarily in the PHX series, but that’s an argument for another day (probably a day months ago, but whatever).

  I do have to take issue with calling Pop a loser though. Name me one NBA coach who has room for more rings on his fingers who has been more of a success, a winner, and a class act in winning than Pop and I’ll start listening to your reasons.

  If Pop is a loser, please, show me what a winner looks like!

• grego
  July 3rd, 2010 at 9:54 pm

  You also need to factor in that with the uncertainty of next season, Spurs could offer Parker a nice extension that would be hard to walk away from. Would you rather risk the chances of next offseason and the new CBA or secure yourself a solid contract extension.

• Jim Henderson
  July 3rd, 2010 at 10:46 pm

  For those of you that want to have hope for the Spurs based on the Celtics success this past year, and also those that want to suggest that it was a “travesty” for Kobe to win the Finals MVP, I have a few comments.

  On the Celtics:

  The principal reason the Celtics won last year is because they have a deep & talented team DEFENSIVELY. They have SEVERAL players that are excellent defenders, two YOUNG ones at KEY positions, center and the point. Unfortunately, the Spurs are FAR from comparable in this regard, and they are unlikely to close that gap in just one off-season.

  On Kobe:

  Look, Gasol is a favorite of mine, and there’s no question he was a very valuable player for the Lakers in the Finals. That said, to call Kobe’s selection a travesty is going overboard, in my view. A guy being selected for the MVP for putting up the following numbers against one of the best defense’s in the league is not a travesty:

  28.6 ppg., 8.0 rpg., 3.9 apg., 2.1 spg., 8.6 FTA per game, 88% FTM, getting a triple-double in the close-out game, and playing stellar “D” against a key Celtic player, Rondo.

  Sure, he was hounded by a brilliant Celtic defensive scheme, and he “pressed” a bit at times, which led to a below average FG%. But in my view, that is not enough to refer to his MVP selection as a “travesty”. Gasol’s Finals series was very good, but by the same token, it was not unusually consistent or extraordinary. And thus, it was not strong enough to justify referring to Kobe’s selection as a “travesty”.

• Jim Miller (jimjule)
  July 4th, 2010 at 5:23 am

  I can’t see the Spurs dealing Parker. He’s too much an integral part of the Spurs system. The Spurs would probably have renegotiated his contract already, but for the salary limits. There aren’t many free agents, low priced ones anyway, that can greatly improve the Spurs. Buford has done a pretty good job of giving the Spurs the talent options to be pretty competitive in 2010-11. The base eight of Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, McDyess, Hill, Blair, Anderson and hopefully Splitter is pretty strong. Add Jefferson, Bonner and most likely, but not definitely Hairston, and that accounts for 11. That leaves between two and four others. Available are Garrett Temple, Alonzo Gee, Ryan Richards, Curtis Jerrells and either Marcus Haislip or James Gist. One of the latter two could provide depth at the small forward or power forward spots. Richards has a huge upside. His size, shooting and ball handling skills already exceed several roster players. Unfortunately, he needs experience, work in the weight room, and Pop’s guidance to fulfill that promise. Toro’s time is probably on his menu. I think Temple and Gee are ready, but Jerrells doesn’t meet a need. I really think the Spurs are about to turn it around and meet the promise that didn’t pan out last season.

• Gary
  July 4th, 2010 at 8:25 am

  I’m really happy if we can run the core like that again

  a TP that can actually run and Blair that can actually get some minutes would make me very happy

  on the raptors deal I dont know.. I guess it was involving RJ… They have to get rid of Turkoglu big ass sucky contract too!

• zack in the alamo
  July 4th, 2010 at 8:30 am

  i understand that losing tony via trade could be terrible but it could also be positive and be a good thing there comes a time when you just have to trust the next player in line (do you remember how much pop threw parker in the game w/zero experience) i think pop has the desire to coach hill and thats why i feel comfortable with parker leaving.
  i also feel like parker’s heart is somewhere else dont you guys?? i would love for parker to stay if heWANTED TO but theres another problem george hill is too good and wont be a bench player for long he also may have more upside than parker. hill plays defense hits the three hitting his midrange jumper and seems to get everyone involved more so than parker, thats major guys i do realize parker avg’s more assists than hill but hill lets everyone touch the ball.

  this is going to be a heated discussion until it plays out because some people including myself believe the spurs should trade parker before he walks (which he said he was doing) and were stuck with nothing to show for it, or keep him this year and hope for a championship and also hope for him to stay??? i just think theres alot of passion and heart missing from this team and we need to think about that when moving forward when i saw the celtics playing i saw alot of close teammates with heart playing their ass off giving it their all. we used to be that team and now we have alot of guys just kinda going through the motions and those guys need to leave

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 8:51 am

  Zack, couple things on your take:

  Hill should be a starter next season, as the shooting guard. At the two spot, he’s a positive asset no matter who you pair him with. As a point guard, he’s merely mediocre. The Spurs get more out of Hill as a shooting guard than a full blown point guard. That’s where his upside lies.

  I have not read any quote from Parker saying he was leaving. I’ve read him say it’s a business and though his heart is in San Antonio he’s up to the challenge if things don’t work out. Just to point out, those are the same things Manu Ginobili was saying halfway through the year.

  Regardless, do not put too much stock into Tony Parker quotes. Having been around for a few player interviews, it’s too easy to just ask a player if they’d ever like to play in New York and then blast the headline: “Tony Parker Wants to be a Knick”.

  But who are you referring to as needing to leave?

• Gary
  July 4th, 2010 at 8:59 am

  I don’t understand.. I see alot of scarred 14yr old girl fan out there…

  +TP should be way healthier than last year
  +we got rid of a 14M$ contract from a guy who didnt fit in our system
  +we still have chances for Tiago

  what the hell ?!

• Jim Miller (jimjule)
  July 4th, 2010 at 9:25 am

  I don’t think Hill is ready to handle the likes of Steve Nash or Chris Paul. Parker does a much better, not perfect, but better job than Hill. That was proven in the Phoenix sweep of San Antonio. Parker was able to stay with Nash, while Hill constantly was falling back on his heels and loosing him. The same with Paul. Until Hill can develop the lateral quickness to stay with super fast guards, the Spurs will need Parker. Plus with the addition of Anderson, Hill may end up being the one who is expendable.

• Trade Tp
  July 4th, 2010 at 9:45 am

  So let me get this straight:

  Having parker at top form (as Jesse says) is a plus… Maybe, but he still doesnt LEAD us in the playoffs (0-2 being “the man”)

  Mike Brown is a Pop clone (idiot) who got as lucky as pop if not more.

  Again, with all the possible player moves why shouldnt we all expect Pop to F with the lineups, and continue to select players who dont fit the “system,” play those who do not contribute, etc….???

  Jesse- Your point about Hill being a mediocre PG is not a good one. Hill is not a scoring PG the way that Parker is. He doesnt run the Roll, and hes been more of a jump shooter. With that being said he distributes the ball better and allows our unit to get touches and in the flow of the game. It might be hard to grasp for those who havent played, but from a traditional PG stance Hill is better than Parker. From a SCORING pg stance, Parker blows Hill away. Since we are in decline and getting older we need a pg who can keep everyone in rhythm. Hill does this. Parker isolates. We arent athletic or skilled or young enough to watch parker then instantly create offense off the drive from the wing. Again, its our players and system. Thats the coaches job: play the best players, and make it as simple for us as it can be to win games. Our coach hasnt done that. And until he can either play the best players, or alter the system then were bounced again.

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 9:56 am

  If the goal of the Spurs was to get to the Western Conference Championship than this article would be good.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 10:07 am

  I’m not sure what your basketball resume is, but it’s irrelevant. An opinion is an opinion and they are only as valid as the reasoning that backs them up. Hill was a point guard last season in the sense that he brought the ball up, handed it to Manu, and got out of the way so that Manu could run Tony’s role.

  Any ball movement or rhythm you speak of, well Hill had as much to do with it as Antonio McDyess or Keith Bogans did.

  At some level most of us here have probably played basketball. Unless your resume lists NBA player, the “those that haven’t played” argument doesn’t really hold much weight.

  I really like George Hill as a player, but he’s a point guard only in the sense that Derek Fisher currently is one-only without the opportunity to hit the clutch shots yet.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 10:13 am

  Lenneezz-it all runs through the Los Angeles Lakers. The moment they landed Gasol they’ve been the undisputed best team in the Western Conference. The goal is to catch up to the Lakers, but the only way to measure it is to get there in the first place.

  Barring injuries, there is not a plausible move the San Antonio Spurs could make that will make them a favorite in a 7-game series with the Lakers. But if they can get there, for what it’s worth, I believe they are capable of winning should things play out right.

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 10:32 am

  Jesse-
  Sure, anything can happen in a playoff series. Ron ron could charge Manu, Kobe tries to hold him off and Ron dislocates Kobe’s shoulder. Then Ron gets tossed from the series by Stern. Yep, I think there’s a chance we beat LA in a playoff series too.

  But seriously, if you knew that Parker would bolt at season’s end would you be interested in a trade then? Also, out of curiousity, what would your plan be for “revamping the offense” without Parker.

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 10:56 am

  “Barring injuries, there is not a plausible move the San Antonio Spurs could make that will make them a favorite in a 7-game series with the Lakers.”

  Ya know, I do agree with this statement. BUT, we can give ourself our best shot by improving our overall talent levels and depth.

  Trading Tony would be a change from the status quo that did not work (got swept by a team we previously had dominated).

  Look change is scary. We, as fans, have gotten used to a Spurs concept. Drive and dish. But change can be good. Sometimes, teams need to go in different directions. Just go back and watch video of games from 1999. We played an entirely different game. Change happens, change is OK. Our current roster was not even close to seriously competing last year. We were definitely short on talent. We need more. More depth, more potential. We know what Tony brings to the table and IT IS NOT ENOUGH.

  Look, we could wait until Duncan’s current contract is up. Then we would be able to do some serious over hauling. Are you willing to wait 2 more years to START the necessary changes? I’m not. We can start the necessary changes and Tony, for a variety of reasons, needs to be the first star to go.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 11:14 am

  I think a case could be made that if Splitter signs and pans out (Which is not far fetched, as the top big man in Europe he’s a safer bet than any draft pick outside of the top five not picked by David Kahn or Chris Wallace), I don’t think it would take all that insanity to beat LA in a series.

  If I knew Parker would bolt-and there’s not indication so far that puts that as a certainy, just an assumption from fans he would prefer LA or NY (LA hasn’t the cap space, NY might not)-I would say…it depends.

  To be clear, I’m not completely opposed to a trade, I just have trouble seeing one that could happen that would make us more likely to win a title than if we keep Parker.

  It is my opinion that next year is the most important year left in Tim Duncan’s career. If keeping Parker is their best chance at a title-for Tim-I pursue that chance by any means necessary.

  But so far as revamping an offense without Tony? I mean, we saw it last year. With our roster, without Tony, it’s pretty much just leaning heavily on Manu Ginobili in the pick and roll. As things stand, the Spurs do not have a diversity of skill sets needed to make the motion and flex sets more functional.

  Right now, Manu and Tony are really the only players on the roster that can make passes on the move. Everyone else is pretty much a stationary player-though I suppose we might be able to run Anderson off the same curl plays we had in place for Finley. Depending on what kind of passer/cutter Tiago Splitter is, he might open some of that stuff up.

  Regardless of what offensive system you run, with the exception of the most recent Pistons title team, it doesn’t work unless you have star players to run it through-that can create the mismatches that set up the rest of the system.

  I trust Manu Ginobili to be that guy, but only for a brief stretch of the system. Duncan has it somedays, but though he still scores effeciently, he does it on difficult shots as opposed to layups and dunks he once got, so he’s less likely to get doubled. If you’re trading Parker, you need a third guy who can CREATE plays (the problem with Jefferson is that he is only a star finisher, not scorer).

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 11:35 am

  First, Tony Parker was never going to be the best player on a championship team. Manu Ginobili has always been the superior perimeter player. Any title hopes depends on both of them being healthy for the playoffs (the last time this happened, they won a title). Him AND Manu healthy together are enough to push you over (if any of Kobe/Gasol/Odom are out, the Lakers are winning either).

  I get why some people want change, but you need any move to make you better now. Not two or three years down the line. Once Tim goes, our window of contention goes. And I understand the desire to sell off our core now to build for the future, but that’s just a recipe for mediocrity-role players and middling All-Stars do not matter unless you get a franchise player to put them around. And San Antonio only gets those through the draft.

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 11:38 am

  Jesse-

  You beat this drum time and again. It’s not far fetched either. With the current makeup of the roster, we DO need a second guy who can penetrate.

  That is almost my point in reverse. If our roster got bigger, stronger, younger and more talented we would not have to rely on the pick n roll sets with two ball handlers that we do now. With shooters we would have better spacing that the defense would have to honor. Do you think that makes our entire team better? Of course it does. Back door cuts, give and gos, hi/lo (which is two bigs, one on the free throw line and one in the post. The big on the free throw line has an excellent angle to find the big down low as he just turns and seals his defender. Robinson did it with Duncan brilliantly.), pump fakes on the perimeter to get past the defender. Put Splitter on the free throw line and cuts guys around him, ala Sabonis. Look, I’m not saying that Splitter is Sabonis. What I am saying is that there are plenty of options outside of Tony and Manu running the screen and roll. Expand the roster’s talent level and depth and the team will expand it’s options.

• SpurredOn
  July 4th, 2010 at 11:44 am

  I agree with this article. The Spurs may be getting better bit by bit while al around them is falling by the same margin. Let’s also not forget that the Western Conference playoffs were altered a bit last year by injuries: Roy, Manu and George Karl. Nuggets would not have been swept by LA as Utah was. Manu being healthy means the Spurs don’t get swept, especially if Phoenix had just gone seven exhaustive games vs a Roy-led Portland team.

  All is not bad in S.A. and appears to be improving.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 11:45 am

  I agree with the big at the free throw line. I love the high low game, and running cuts off the pinch post. But I think with Splitter, Anderson, Hill, and the development of one of Hairston/Gee/Temple that you’ve already kind of covered that depth part without breaking up the roster.

  That big making the pass from the high post also opens up baseline cuts for RJ (you know, should both he and Splitter sign). Depth can be acquired on the cheap. Look at how the Suns depth was built.

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 11:48 am

  Jesse- Our 3 pt shooting is darn near atrocious. That is a big problem.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 11:59 am

  Agreed, we need shooting. But offense was not our most pressing need. We lost on defense.

  That being said…We have good three point shooting in Manu and George Hill (Manu is said to be streaky, but he is much more consistent on standstill threes-something he finds more of when Duncan and Tony are breaking down defenses). James Anderson has range on a nice jumper and should be able to at least step in right away at improve on Mason/Bogan’s production. And if we are in fact putting our money into Richard Jefferson, well you hope he rebounds from an off year thanks to his familiarity in the system (we can all agree he’s not a knock down shooter, but look through his numbers, he’s not last season bad either).

  And you can find shooters from anywhere.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

  For that matter, you can teach shooting. It’s one of the easier skills to develop. Exhibit A: George Hill. He began as bad, if not worse, a shooter than Tony Parker was his rookie year.

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

  And you can find shooters from anywhere

  But how do you pay for them? And no, you can’t find 6’10″ shooting forwards than are 21 and agile.

  You are counting on Anderson to outperform Mason and Bogans. Nope. Bogans was actually pretty decent (36%) during the regular season before he stunk it up in the playoffs, ala Boner. Manu, Hill, RJ and Anderson is not enough. We are doomed to matching Boner.

  Not to mention perimeter defense.

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

  If teaching can be taught how come Tony still is below average from downtown? Shooting can only be improved to a point is the answer.

  Well Chip will get overtime trying to help Malik find a stroke from downtown.

  Too many hopes and ifs when it comes to shooting.

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

  If shooting can be taught how come our free throws are cataclismicly awful?

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

  And Mason outshot RJ from downtown (33%). That shocked me.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

  Free throws are as much mental as shooting stroke. For example, I was a middling to sometimes bad three-point shooter but I shot a good percentage from the line the last two years I played ball.

  Malik can stroke the three-pointer. He shot it at around 40% in his Austin time. My guess is he needs to work on getting it off more confidently and with a quicker release in the NBA.

  And Parker has said it himself, he spent the one summer really developing his jumper…the year he cambe back with the midrange. His skill development has been slower because he opts to play for the national team each summer. But supposedly this summer he will be going back to skill development in his time off. The lack of three-pointers also speaks to the Spurs making a decision to simply cut it out of his arsenal to emphasize his driving more. While still probably not a great three-point shooter, I am sure he has improved quite a bit from his first two seasons.

• Trade Tp
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

  Jesse- while Im sure that your case about playing being irrelevant is true in your eyes, I assure you that it is not when understanding why things work and why things dont.

  I would take Fisher on my team over Parker any day. And PG wise (being AN ALL AROUND PG/PLAYER) fisher is better than Parker. He distributes and controls tempo on both ends of the floor.

  Also your point about bogans and McDoosh… Stretching arent we?? Having a shooter at the PG position makes the defender play chase and be honest. You dont have to keep squirming, and opinion or not, we played better TEAM ball when Parker was on the bench.

  Finally your comment “I get why some people want change, but you need any move to make you better now. Not two or three years down the line. Once Tim goes, our window of contention goes” is a little off for the fact that you are only delaying the inevitable.

  The Parker situation comes down to this. Dont do it unless we can send McDoosh with RJ in some sort of package deal that makes us younger and more athletic. Otherwise we should keep him until the break to increase his trade value.

  You’re absolutely correct about manu being the better player. Why? The same reasons as Hill is a better option for us now; he makes his team a team. Parker is a layup machine with no outside shoot/pass/FT ability. Great asset to a team that doesnt have as many HOLES to fill as we do. Same thing Ive been saying for years about the whole situation. Its a new ballgame for everyone now that TD cannot control both ends of the floor. The coaches, and the fans have to accept that.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

  And 6-10 shooting forwards with mobility are very difficult to find. That’s why any that are out there are out of the Spurs price range at the moment. (And Gallinari does not mean defense at the moment, it’s too soon to tell if he will even be better than what Hedo became at this point. Too one-dimensional right now)

• Lenneezz
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

  Everything is out of the Spurs price range right now. That is the point.

  I’m out. Parties and fireworks are calling my name.

• Jesse Blanchard
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

  First, MCDYESS was absolutely vital to getting us past the Dallas Mavericks, and would have been useful against the Lakers. He simply ran into the wrong matchup for him. Admittedly, he had a horrible regular season, but the Spurs did not lose because of him.

  Second, the assessment that Fisher is a superior point guard probably throws away any credibility to the rest of the argument-considering the Lakers are praying Steve Blake can fill that spot.

  Regarding the McDyess, Bogans, Hill comment. My point was not that those two kept the ball moving and teammates fed. In fact, they did nothing to really contribute to that, which is my point. Hill handed the ball to Manu and got out of the way. When the Spurs played their best “team ball”, they used most of the shot clock running the pick and roll with Manu (much like they do with Tony-only Manu is a better passer than most point guards in the league, which isn’t a slight on Tony so much as its just a testament to how really, really good Manu is) which is supposed to be the plan in the playoffs, but not through the entire regular season.

  And my point about playing ball, I mean, we all have probably played ball here. It’s not a valid way of supporting an argument. Neither is a word play on players’ last names.

  But, I’m just about out of work and it’s been fun doing this back and forth to keep my mind off the fact that I’m working on the 4th of July. Happy Independence Day everyone, thanks for reading, and enjoy your BBQs.

• Jim Henderson
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

  Guys, you want a better team by trading Parker? Check out my recent comments in conversation with Tim Varner:

  Jim Henderson
  July 4th, 2010 at 11:26 am

  Timothy Varner
  July 4th, 2010 at 6:19 am

  “Another thing to note is how this would mess with the cap. If the exception is too large, the Spurs could lose their MLE if it pushed too far below the cap. So the thing to do is sign Splitter, then execute the trade.”

  Yeah, that’s a good point. I agree.

  “Finally, if the Spurs do have a sign and trade offer in with Toronto for Chris Bosh ……and, of course, that offer might well be Parker + Splitter for Bosh.”

  Yeah well, that’s a heavy price to pay for Bosh in my books. I’d hold out for Parker, Splitter, & McDyess, for Bosh & Jack. Toronto has Calderon at the point anyway to work with TP, and they could use another veteran “big” to help them make a run next year. They would be too heavy at the point with TP, Calderon, & Jack, and we could really use a point back in any trade of TP. I like Jack’s game, and he would fit well with Hill, Manu, & Anderson.

  Jim Henderson
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

  By the way, as you may have noticed, my proposal with the Raptors would give up TWO “bigs” for ONE, which could pose a problem, but as I’ve stated previously, I would be offering the LLE to restricted FA Joel Anthony of the Heat right now, while Miami has so much pressure on them to keep their financial commitments as low as possible with the hopes of landing TWO of the big names. Thus, with the Toronto deal our team would look like this:

  Hill, Jack
  Manu, Anderson
  Gee, Hairston
  Bosh, Blair
  Duncan, Anthony

  We would still need to secure a starting SF, through the sign & trade for RJ. See possible list of wings:

  D. Wright
  A. Morrow
  R. Bell
  T. Outlaw
  J. Childress
  R. Brewer
  J. Jones
  R. Gomes
  K. Korver
  T. Allen
  M. Barnes

  Perhaps RJ, Hairston and/or Gee for Pietrus & Barnes. Reunite Carter & RJ!

  Hill, Jack
  Manu, Anderson
  Pietrus, Barnes
  Bosh, Blair
  Duncan, Anthony

  That’s a team that can defend & shoot, and is YOUNGER!

  We would also have Temple, & a couple of “vet minimum” pick-ups to fill out the roster.

  Any interest in any of these players if they were available for the minimum? (likely for most):

  J. Boone, T. Thomas, Joe Smith, R. Nesterovic, J. Petro, J. Singleton, S. Novak, J. Hayes, J. Alexander, J. Stackhouse, L. Hughes

• lvmainman
  July 4th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

  It’s delusional to think the Spurs are getting better because competitors are getting worse. It’s like thinking you got richer because your house is paid for and everyone else is underwater on their mortgage.

  Following that logic, the Trailblazers who swept the Spurs last year, are a better team than the Spurs because Roy, Oden, Pryzbilla will recover from injuries. Rockets will be better than Spurs with Yao, Hornets will be better with Paul, Stojakovic healthy, etc.

  Spurs need to upgrade with a defensive big (Splitter maybe, a taller Oberto/Varejo?, never seen him play), a defensive wing and some reliable dead-eye outside shooting. Every Spurs championship had consistent veteran outside shooting from Elliot (Memorial Day Miracle), Elie, Kerr, and Jaren “the Eliminator” Jackson, even Avery hit a game winning jumper in 99.

  To Kerr (remember 4 - 3′s IN Dallas in a 15 pt comeback?!!), to Speedy Claxton knocking down 15 ft jumpers (leaving Parker on the bench), to Steven Jackson (5 - 3 pt’s IN Dallas in a 15 pt comeback?!!) and (3 - 3pt’s in the 4th qtr of clinching game 6 vs Nets!) in 03.

  To Horry (Game 5 clincher in Detroit when Rasheed doubled Ginobili), to Bowen and Barry killing Phoenix knocking down open 3 ptr’s, to the last 2 shots made in Game 7 vs Pistons - a made Bowen 3 and a made Ginobili 3 in 05.

  To Finley making 5 - 3 ptr’s IN Denver, Barry, Bowen, Horry, Ginobili making 3′s in 07 (that’s 5 veteran players deadly from 3 pt range!!).

  The Spurs as currently constructed NEED more shooters or another disappointing playoffs is to be expected. Relying on rookie Anderson, Bonner, or Jefferson to make a clutch jumper come playoff time is pure fantasy.

• lvmainman
  July 4th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

  Trading Parker for the right pieces might get the Spurs there. I had proposed Parker for Foye and Miller (2 deadeye 3 pt shooter, Ft shooters, and good passers) during the Wizards give away for peanuts era, before the Wizards got the 1st pick of the draft.

  Or maybe Aaron Brooks and Shane Battier for Parker (I don’t think Houston is that dumb).

  Or maybe Rodney Stuckey and Tayshaun Prince(ensure playing time for Jerebko, Daye, and Villanueva) for Parker.

  I do believe that Parker will leave as a free agent for max money somewhere else.

• Jim Henderson
  July 4th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

  lvmainman
  July 4th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

  Well, how about the team I just assembled in my previous post through trades & the LLE:

  Hill, Jack
  Manu, Anderson
  Pietrus, Barnes
  Bosh, Blair
  Duncan, J. Anthony

  That’s a team that can score & defend.

  And hit the three:

  Hill - 41% last year
  Manu - 38% last year
  Jack - 41% last year
  Pietrus - 38% last year
  Anderson - about 37% career at OSU

  The four bigs can score inside AND out to 20 ft., plus rebound AND defend with the best of them. For example, Anthony has the 2nd highest blocks per 36 minutes in the entire league (3.0). Plus, we still have a couple vet minimum guys to pick up that could help in certain situations. For example, we could use one more veteran “big”, with good size, to chip in for certain match-ups.

  The whole team is considerably younger & more athletic.

  In my view, that’s a team that can challenge for a title.

• Jim Henderson
  July 4th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

  By the way, Toronto is going to lose Bosh anyways, and they would be a much more competitive team with the Bosh sign & trade deal that I proposed:

  Parker, Calderon
  DeRozan, Belinelli
  Turkoglu, Ed Davis
  Bargnani, Amir Johnson
  Splitter, McDyess

  Toronto desperately needs a center that can operate down low, and Splitter could fit that bill nicely. That also allows them to put Bargnani where he belongs: a stretch 4/5 (a la Okur).

  Orlando would have:

  Nelson, Williams (if they resign)
  Carter, Redick (if they resign)
  RJ, Gee/Hairston
  Lewis, Bass
  Howard, Gortat

  RJ is an upgrade over Barnes at SF for the Magic, and he gets to be reunited with Carter. Pietrus is a good fit for the Spurs.

• johnny
  July 4th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

  I never really understood the hate there is Tony Parker. This is a guy who has gone up against the best point guards in the game in the playoffs and has either bested them or played them to a standstill, which negates the other teams best player who is a point guard. Parker is a far better passer than people give him credit for. This is not to say he is a great passer like a Nash or Kidd, but I would say that he is above average and people treat him like he is the worst passer ever. He is very good at driving and throwing some difficult passes to shooters in the corner. That being said he is point whose scoring sets up his passing not like Nash and Kidd whose passing sets up their scoring. Also in a system like the Spurs the assists get distributed throughout the team because they are a team that makes the extra pass. Another thing in the last 20 years how many great (all-star level) pass first point guards have won a championship. I can think of only Rondo. Even Billups is more of a scorer. So basically the great pass first point guard doesn’t get you victories come playoff time in the NBA. Last thing Hill is not a better passer than TP, I would put Hill right now as below average when it comes as a passer. I think that he is improving but before the NBA he was the guy taking all the shots so passing is something very new for him.

• lvmainman
  July 4th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

  @ Jim Henderson,

  Jim Henderson
  May 10th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
  lvmainman
  May 10th, 2010 at 8:27 am

  ” “Chris Bosh for Richard Jefferson and Tiago Splitter”

  No offense, but that deal doesn’t have a prayer either. Splitter’s not even in the league yet, unless you’re simply talking about trading his rights. And is RJ really going to make the Raptors better? I don’t think so. And let’s face it, it’s VERY unlikely that we’re going to get Chris Bosh (he’d have to agree to a sign & trade, not a very likely proposition), yet I hear his name come up all the time. Let’s try to be a bit more practical in our trade suggestions. ”

  Now you’re on the trade for Bosh bandwagon?!?

  If the Spurs could trade Parker , Splitter, McDyess(I prefer to resign Bonner and ship him back to Toronto than give up McDyess)for Bosh and Jack, they should do it in a heartbeat!

  I can’t see Jefferson for Barnes and Pietrus. I would be in favor of that trade. But, why would the Magic do that deal?

  I agree wholeheartly with those 2 proposed trades. Both trades would fill all the Spurs weaknesses.

• Bushka
  July 4th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

  @Johnny you have to understand that the guys who drive the hate wagon are agenda driven.

  If Tim & Co posted an article along the lines of

  “Detergent what brand is hardest on dirt but kindest to your complexion?”

  The ink wouldn’t have had time to dry before they’d run something along the lines of this rubbish out…

  “Pop is a terrible coach, we are not the NBA champions because of him, and everything he does is a stain upon basketball instruction. Tony Parker is worthless and studies show that when he touches people they become susceptible to virulent strains of ineptitude…”

  Honestly you will learn to skip the posts there is no change in the record.

  They are not as you might have guessed steeped in perspective.

• idahospur
  July 4th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

  “James remains Knicks’ top target”

  http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5355032

  “Stoudemire has fed into the folly by acting as though there was already an offer on the table, going so far as to tell reporters Saturday night that he was already recruiting Carmelo Anthony and Tony Parker to join the Knicks.”

• idahospur
  July 4th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

  Mostly FYI on the last post.

• BayAreaSpursFan
  July 4th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

  Trade Bonner and RMJ for a shooter or a good wing defender. Im tired of seeing those two guys be the ones to shoot 3′s and defend for the Spurs.

• DNITCH
  July 4th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

  @ Trade TP

  “I would take Fisher on my team over Parker any day. And PG wise (being AN ALL AROUND PG/PLAYER) fisher is better than Parker. He distributes and controls tempo on both ends of the floor.”

  Hahaha thanks for the laugh, needed it today.

• Trade Tp
  July 4th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

  Jesse- McDoosh is a loser and we could have managed the same with DeJuan. Second, Fisher is a better ALL AROUND PG. Hes hit more important shots and can actually decide a game FOR HIS TEAM. If you cant filter that then your disregarding history.

  So your point is that hill does nothing? Just hands the ball to Manu and watches? Thats fine. We played our best then. Why do we need to spend millions on some French fag who makes us worse? We dont. Thanks for agreeing

  Dnitch- Please tell me the last time Parker won a playoff game on a shot, or a defensive play… Or when he made a FT….

• Jim Henderson
  July 4th, 2010 at 7:28 pm

  “Now you’re on the trade for Bosh bandwagon?!? ”

  Yes, it appears like more of a chance now. First, Splitter is MUCH closer to actually signing with the Spurs, AND he is a MUCH more needed asset for the Raptors than RJ is/was. And second, I’ll be honest, I under-appreciated the potential value of Bosh doing a sign & trade deal. Due to his Bird rights, the Raptors would have the option of maxing his deal out at one more year than an other club could without a sign & trade.

  “I can’t see Jefferson for Barnes and Pietrus.”

  Well, it’s actually RJ, Gee and/or Hairston. Even though RJ had an off year with us last year, he is an upgrade at the SF spot over either Barnes or Pietrus. Also, it doesn’t hurt that Carter had some nice years paired with RJ at the SG/SF in their days in NJ. Also, Gee & Hairston are young, athletic guys that can play a role in this league, and they both still have some upside remaining over the next 2-3 years. Pietrus fits well because in our system the SF spot has always been our main position for spot up shooters that can play some “D”. And that’s what Pietrus is.

  “……I prefer to resign Bonner and ship him back to Toronto than give up McDyess….”

  I understand your preference, but with the addition of Splitter in this deal I see the Raptors wanting to shift Bargnani into the stretch 4 spot more (instead of the 5), and having McDyess help them on the boards along with Amir Johnson. The Raptors need rebounding/defense in the paint over shooting from the perimeter, which makes Bonner not a particularly attractive addition. And it could be hard enough to get Bosh & Jack out of them as it is.

• Gary
  July 4th, 2010 at 7:50 pm

  wtf still old same crying shit

  if TP is healthy, he’s the guy I want dribbling the ball to Tim on the other side

• Jim Henderson
  July 4th, 2010 at 8:12 pm

  Trade Tp
  July 4th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

  “Please tell me the last time Parker won a playoff game on a shot, or a defensive play… Or when he made a FT….”

  And I suppose his 2007 Finals MVP was a farce, a fluke, a fake, a fraud, a fantasy, a f_ _ _ _ _…….. No, I get it. This was only a part of “his past”, never to be seen again. TP’s just not clutch anymore. He went from age 25 to age 28, and just like that, his “clutchness” is gone …… forever!

  Look, Fisher is a “gamer”, and I’d be happy to have him on our team, but he’s no Tony Parker.

  And P.S. Perhaps you missed the critical game three against the Mavs in round one of this years playoffs. Here’s the scene: Dallas up one, 2:34 left in the game, Parker nails a 20 ft. jumper - Spurs up one - 1:34 left, Parker nails another jumper - Spurs up three - :51.9 left, Parker, like an assassin, hit’s another jumper - Spurs up 5 - now, with :18.7 remaining, and the Spurs up by 4, Parker drives to the cup in a flash, and gets an “and one” - Parker nails the free throw, nothing but net - Spurs up by 7. That’s all she wrote in that game. And that’s Parker rusty, just 7-8 games in after missing a whole month due to a broken shooting hand, and adjusting to an unfamiliar position, gracefully, as a sixth man. Damn, I wish that guy would show up in a big game!

  I’ve been eminently open to trading Parker, but lets drop the nonsense.

• Ian
  July 4th, 2010 at 8:23 pm

  @Trade Tp - of course Derek Fisher is better than Tony Parker. In fact, almost every player in the Lakers squad is so underrated, it’s sickening…

  Take D.J. Mbenga and Adam Morrison for example, who are without a doubt real ballers (Larry Brown is a loser who could not utilise Morrison’s talent) - Phil Jackson was obviously a dumbass for not playing these two instead of Pau “softie” Gasol and the crazy guy that calls himself Ron Ron. He almost lost that Finals series because he didn’t use Mbenga and Morrison.

  If Rivers used Shelden Williams instead of a pussy like Garnett, he would’ve easily won the title - what an idiot…

• DNITCH
  July 4th, 2010 at 10:34 pm

  Derek Fisher is so good and a better passer that his highest assist average for a season is 4.4 while TP has a measly 6.9 as his highest and last season ended with 5.7 per game ( still higher than fisher’s career high even with injury)

  Derek Fisher is such a good play maker that his highest scoring rate with the lakers is 11.7. The only time Tony doesnt beat Fisher in this category is his rookie year. Not to mention that Parker led the league in points in the paint in ’07 because hands down he is the best finisher at the rim. He is a Finals MVP, which is something that Fisher has and never will achieve as long as Kobe is still wearing a Lakers uni.

  You go down to stats and Parker has him beat in ever category. The only clutch shot that anyone remembers from fisher is the .04 shot. TP has been very clutch with his mid-range jumper over the years and dominated last season in case you forgot.

  The Spurs need to sign TP to a contract extension if anything. He is the only player of the big three that you can count on for the long haul. TD doesnt have more than 3 seasons and Manu doesnt have much more after that. Granted he might be the most valuable trade chip, however he is also the most dependable provided we can sign him long term.

  Final point on TP being > than Derek Fisher, theres a reason why Fisher never has and never will get a Max contract and no one is going out of there way to covet him. Also Parker is a 3 time All-Star and last I checked Fisher has never made it!

• Borgy817
  July 4th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

  If TP really wants to be a Knicks then we should trade him, we can get creative by S&T Jefferson with TP to the Knicks for Gallinari and Curry’s expiring contract.. we could have a younger wing player with Gallinari that can shoot 3′s and defend well..

• Bushka
  July 5th, 2010 at 12:56 am

  Gee this gets tiring.

  Have some form of evidence for an opinion would you Tradetp.

  He hit a huge long 2 vs the Hornets in a must win playoff game for the spurs 2 years back just to add to Jims example.

  He was finals MVP because he TORE the cavs apart.

  He carried the team when healthy a season ago..

  The idea that Derek Fisher is a better more valuable addition than TP is a farce.

  Give yourself an uppercut.

• Tim in Surrey
  July 5th, 2010 at 3:23 am

  Can we get back to the subject of the post, at least on occasion? I come to this blog looking for intelligent discussion about the Spurs, not rehashes of old rants, like the “Pop sucks” one. You made your point and most of us disagree. Can we move on?

  That said, I did like some of the comments to another thought-provoking post. I’m with a few of you who pointed out that, by the same logic, Houston and Portland should be much improved. When you’re playing Chuck Hayes and Luis Scola out of position, adding the second-best center in the league is a spectacular upgrade. Same with Portland’s “additions” of Oden, Przybilla (by playoff time) and Roy. Sure, they all have histories of injury problems, but are the Spurs any more likely to have an injury-free year from the big three?

  What’s more important from my Wooden-influenced POV is that the issue should NEVER be the other teams. It should always be your own. If the Spurs can get healthier, deeper, and a bit younger, while important newer players like Blair, Hill, and Jefferson also gain a better understanding of their system, then the team will be much better. In other words, if the Spurs want better results, then they need to become a better team. And it strikes me that the players, Pop, RC, and the rest of the staff are working hard to do just that.

  Certainly, a healthy Tony Parker is a deadly weapon, especially with the newer defensive rules. He is particularly poisonous to Phoenix and LA (and Steve Blake doesn’t change that one bit). DeJuan Blair with a year’s experience and a better mid-range jumper? I’m looking forward to seeing that! Richard Jefferson with a better understanding of the system? That’s another huge opportunity for improvement. (Everybody focused on how much better he played alongside Manu late last year-knowing where to be and what to do seemed to be a big part of that, because Manu seems to communicate well with him. And why do you think Pop was spending precious offseason wine-tasting time working with RJ?) George Hill made a big leap in his second year and is still learning, so I think HE’LL be better, too. I don’t expect a lot out of James Anderson at first, but by next spring he might start to be an important contributor. And who knows what we’ll get from Tiago in his first year (assuming we can sign him)? But he’s talented, skilled, and experienced so I think he’ll add something.

  Those are all big plusses for the Spurs. My main concern, though, continues to be the defense. While some of the improvements I mentioned will come on the defensive end, I still don’t yet see it as the great strength that it used to be. Knowing Pop & RC’s histories, though, I think they’ll be working harder on that than on anything else.

  Tim

  P.S.- I can’t tell you how weird is it to see the Spurs draft someone from the UK. Who knew there was a big man right under my nose? He does have some talent, but the level of coaching in the UK is a lot lower than the rest of Europe right now. So he’s probably going to be really, really green. It’s too bad that Quin Snyder just left the Toros. I just hope his replacement will be good at developing big men. Maybe the Spurs should try to convince a veteran coach like Paul Silas or C.M. Newton to tutor him for a couple of weeks? Does David Robinson have any big summer plans?

• Bentley
  July 5th, 2010 at 7:00 am

  We all tend to forget that this Spurs team, for 11 plus seasons now, has won 50 games and been to the playoffs, with four championships in between, no other NBA team can say that. Our high expectations of this team almost seem to cloud our judgements of the players and coaches. I want this team to win it all every year, and it is hard to take a step back and be proud of what you’ve done when you don’t win it all.

  But you don’t always win it. All the dynasties in the past(Celtics, Lakers in 80′s and 00′s, and the Bulls)eventually stopped winning, and it look a long period of rebuliding and new players, and faces, and coaches, and schemes to win. So I think we can’t rely on building around Duncan anymore. Our team should be about winning for now AND the future, long after Timmy is gone. I dont know if that means trading Parker away, but i’m not opposed to it if makes us better in the long run.

  Lakers traded away Shaq, led to them getting Lamar Odom, and the pieces and cap room needed to execute a trade for Pau Gasol.

  And they’ve been to the finals three straight years, winning the last two.

  Shaq to that Lakers team in the 2000′s is sort of similar to Parker’s role to our team now. So we’ll see what happens.

• Jim Miller (jimjule)
  July 5th, 2010 at 7:19 am

  Leneez, “you can’t find shooting forwards that are 6’10″ 21 and agile.” R.C. Buford did and his name is Ryan Richards. He turned 19 in April. Give him one year with the Toros and I think he’ll be a perfect fit with Splitter when Duncan retires.

• Lenneezz
  July 5th, 2010 at 7:59 am

  Ryan Richards will play POWER forward.

  I will say this about RR: Just from watching his highlights on youtube. He has offensive game, he really does. He has good range (not sure what % he shoots from 3). He can dribble, drive and dish.

  He would actually be a good fit with Duncan. His game reminds me of Lamar Odom’s.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiANnojm34I

• Greyberger
  July 5th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

  Good points Bentley. Next season’s contenders will have an advantage on the Spurs because none of them have been in win-now mode for 11 years. Not only does our success deny us lottery picks it also means the emphasis has never been on the future or saving up resources for one big push (a-la Daryl Morey).

  You can see this with our history with rookies during Duncan’s career. We mine for diamonds and have no interest in lesser stones. They don’t want to develop a guy or give him playing time just to increase his value or for seasons down the road - it’s usually to win then and there. It’s like there’s a threshold for the player to break through: on one side you’re the rookie, with few opportunities in games and with Pop, but once you get the nod you’ll quickly become a starter or key piece. And then you’ll have Pop’s focus whether you want it or not.

  The bar is set pretty high, but James Anderson has a better chance of making it than your average 20th pick. We have a number of (presumably) returning guys who could were basically regular season minute sponges, but have potential to be legit reserves. Summer league is going to be interesting even if our FA stuff is wrapped up by the 12th.

  You can see a speculative summer league roster here

  http://www.poundingtherock.com/2010/6/16/1520947/spurs-summer-league-roster

• TradeTP
  July 5th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

  Henderson- And I suppose his 2007 Finals MVP was a farce, a fluke, a fake, a fraud, a fantasy, a f_ _ _ _ _…….. No, I get it. This was only a part of “his past”, never to be seen again. TP’s just not clutch anymore. He went from age 25 to age 28, and just like that, his “clutchness” is gone …… forever!” Hes never propelled us to win a series, let alone a ring. Fisher has. Parker went nuts against ERIC SNOW in his 16th season….

  DNITCH- Final point on TP being > than Derek Fisher, theres a reason why Fisher never has and never will get a Max contract and no one is going out of there way to covet him. Also Parker is a 3 time All-Star and last I checked Fisher has never made it!”

  Thats how dumb you are. You would rather have an all star than a ring. Congrats. Lets get TMAC!!!

  Bushka- The ignorance keeps getting piled on when you comment. He was finals MVP because he TORE the cavs apart.

  He carried the team when healthy a season ago..

  The idea that Derek Fisher is a better more valuable addition than TP is a farce.

  Give yourself an uppercut.
  1. Unless each team we play in the post season has a shitty backcourt like Cleveland did with ERIC SNOW LEADING THE TEAM he wont be MVP again. And why so much props for INDIVIDUAL AWARDS? WE WANT A RING NOT AN ALL STAR. there is a reason LeBron wants out of Cleveland = CRAPPY TEAMMATES
  2. Where exactly did he carry the team? Thats right … bounced….
  3. TP is not an all around PG. If you think he is your a fool. Hes a scoring PG like Gilbert and Allen. Fisher will do anything to win, even if it means diving on the floor. Parker wont do that. Hes a pussy.

• philip fletcher
  July 5th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

  It looks like Splitter vs Gasol, Duncan vs Bynum, McDyess/ Jefferson will be asked to contain Odom/ Artest, Ginobili/Anderson vs Kobe, Parker/ Hill vs Fisher/Blake. Splitter is going to be the wild card. Also if Ryan Richardson can be involved I believe the Spurs will have an edge because it will take Gasol to guard his 3 point shooting, if you have seen his shooting touch, odds are the 3 is going in. He may be there at the end of the year. I believe

• DNITCH
  July 5th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

  Trade TP glad to see you bypassed every piece of actual evidence to once again push your bias opinion and be rude in the process. Parker is better statistically than Fisher, has a more complete game, and provides more to the team than anything Fisher would. If you would rather have Fisher to have your once diving play than TP’s contribution all game, than its good to great to know that you yourself do not work in the Spurs FO.

• DNITCH
  July 5th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

  (Clearly a typo above)

• Jim Henderson
  July 5th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

  Bentley
  July 5th, 2010 at 7:00 am

  “But you don’t always win it. All the dynasties in the past(Celtics, Lakers in 80′s and 00′s, and the Bulls)eventually stopped winning, and it look a long period of rebuliding and new players, and faces, and coaches, and schemes to win. So I think we can’t rely on building around Duncan anymore. Our team should be about winning for now AND the future, long after Timmy is gone. I dont know if that means trading Parker away, but i’m not opposed to it if makes us better in the long run.”

  That’s right. Everyone needs to try and understand & accept this reality.

  TradeTP
  July 5th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

  “Hes never propelled us to win a series, let alone a ring. Fisher has.”

  That’s completely absurd. Winning a Finals MVP is as close as you can get to “propelling” a team to win a series.

  “Parker went nuts against ERIC SNOW in his 16th season….”

  Snow was a very good defender, even at the age of 33. Also, teams win with “team” defense, not with isolated individual defenders. In fact, Cleveland was 4th in the league in defensive rating in 2006-2007. Enough with the excuses to not give TP his proper due.

• Jacob
  July 5th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

  Tradetp, it’s really difficult to take any if your posts seriously. I mean, your handle alone shows us that you’ll be heavily influenced by the same motivator no matter what evidence is presented. It’s not even a debate worthy of real discussion; Parker is hands down better than derrik fisher, even when he was at his best
  . My hope is that if Tony is traded, it’s well into the season where the spurs have the benefit of evaluating their performance with hill, they can asses their needs, and also see what kind of injuries or trouble other teams may find themselves in and take advantage of a mid-season opportunity.

• hobson13
  July 5th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

  Well, it looks like Amare Stoudamire has raped the Knicks to the tune of 5 years $100 mil. I would absolutely hate to be a knicks fan right now. They began scuttling their team two years ago and all they have gotten so far is an overpaid idiot. It makes you thankful for what we’ve got with the Spurs.

  IMO, Amare is about equal to David Lee. Lee had a clown team and almost averaged 20/12 while Stoudamire had Steve Nash and averaged 23/9. Both players have minimal defensive skills (or desire to play defense) and thrive in a run and gun environment. I often wonder what David Lee would have averaged if he had played next to Nash.

  We all remember how good Shawn Marion looked next to Nash all those years. A number of years ago, there was a camp of league “experts” who thought he might have been league MVP (this was about 5 years ago). Marion got traded and has done NOTHING in 3+ years. While I don’t put Stoudamire in that exact camp (Marion’s decline was due to age) I will say that Amare is very much a product of the Steve Nash system. No question, a clown like Hakim Warrick will put up career numbers next year with Stevie.

  While I don’t doubt Stat will get his 20+ ppg this season, he’ll be forced to take 30 shots to get there. He certainly won’t have those all those easy dunks that Nash hooked him up with (and us Spurs fans saw that for years). I’m not trying to bash him, but he has really struck a nerve with his mindless campaigning for Lebron, Wade, Tony, Melo, and Jesus to come to NY. Two of those are already signed with their teams for next year and one doesn’t give a damn!!! He needs to leave other team’s players the hell alone. The league should pull him aside and talk with him about his “campaigning” of players already under contract for next season.

• Jim Henderson
  July 5th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

  hobson13
  July 5th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

  Hobson, what do you think of my trade proposals with Toronto & Orlando from a previous comment on this thread?

  See:

  Jim Henderson
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

• Bentley
  July 5th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

  Hobson 13,

  I agree exactly with your assessment of Stoudamire in Phoenix. He wasn’t deadly playing face up ball(which is basically what he will do in New York because he is not a post player) He was deadly rolling to the basket off of the screen and roll or stepping back to hit a mid-range jumper. We generally did the best on Stoudamire with stout man to man defense and help rotation. Not to mention that he can’t rebound or play defense, and it all adds to another bust for the New York Knicks.

  And a relief that we never have to see him in the playoffs again. That pick and roll with Nash was getting way too old.

• jason
  July 5th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

  @hobson

  I’ve been reading these stories about how carmello and tony have both said to amare that they want to play with him in new york next year, but carmello just signed an extension and I have my doubts about parkers desire to leave. To be honest, the impression that I’m starting to get about amare is that he seems like the friend that all his buddies are afraid to be honest with. We’ve all known someone like that: a guy who really wants to be friends with you and he tries really hard to set up hang out opportunities, but at the same time he’s kinda psycho and none of your friends have the balls to be honest with him and say we don’t wanna hang out cause nobody’d really sure what he’s capable of in scary follow you into the parking lot after work sorta way. It seems desperate and like he’s sorta living in his own little fantasy world.

  I can just picture tony and mellow saying on the phone to him: ya dude itd be really cool to play with you in new york… Ya why don’t you sign there and we’ll totally catch up to you man.

• Eric
  July 5th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

  Did we all forget about T-Mac? We all, The spurs go into these uncanny droughts!! 10-15 mins where we just miss everything we put up and the other team either catches up or take the lead. We need a player that can come in on these famous droughts and just plain score! Hold down the fort while our player’s do what ever they do to get their a$$ back into shape. Also some one who can make things happen. Some one who doesn’t need a written up “Play” keeping it random. I think T-Mac or Iverson would fit this roll perfectly. Both of these players will not get anywhere the money they use to but they do have something left in the “tank”… sign them a league minimum and give it a shot?

• Bushka
  July 5th, 2010 at 6:40 pm

  Tradetp you don’t know much about basketball…

  the end.

• hobson13
  July 5th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

  “Parker, Splitter, & McDyess, for Bosh & Jack”

  I would absolutely do this trade. Duncan would need to “officially” move to C and let Bosh play his natural position as a PF. I also think Bosh and an improved Blair could be devastating against smaller lineups and would provide the Spurs with an unreal young front line. Jack would give us a decent PG who has the ability to knock down 3′s and space the floor (he shot 41% from distance last year. Parker and Splitter would be difficult to part with, but McDyess is really just a throw in. I don’t see Antonio playing a large role next year with an improving Blair and another big coming on board. This trade would put our front line on par with the Lakers. As a side note, I’d love for Bosh to put on 20lbs of muscle in order to be a better banger, but not if it is at the expense of his speed. It would take Parker resigning with the Raps to make this deal come true. I don’t have the answer concerning whether or not Parker cooperates…

  P.S. The notion that we HAVE to keep Parker due to his ability to collapse the defense is misguided. There are multiple ways to force the defense’s hand besides a speedy PG breaking them down. Case in point: Lakers.

  “Perhaps RJ, Hairston and/or Gee for Pietrus & Barnes. Reunite Carter & RJ!”

  No question, this trade would adequately address our SF needs in a single stroke. Pietrus is a very good player/athlete who could completely address our need for an elite defender and partially remedy our need for a 3pt shooter. He’s not the sharpest shooter in the league, but is better than RJ in this category. I have always liked Barnes. He is much like Pietrus except he is a worse 3pt shooter, but a better passer. This trade is good and would shore up our needs on the wings for the forseeable future.

  Here is my trade suggestion regarding Jefferson. In this kind of insane market where Stoudamire and Joe Johnson get max level deals, RJ is guaranteed to get overpaid. However, that is a good thing for us in a sign and trade situation. I can see a team like NY getting antsy and offering RJ a 4 year $40mill deal. If Amare is worth $20 mil/year surely RJ is worth half that to some ignoramous?!? What about a sign and trade for Mike Miller (who is reportedly wanting $6mil/year) and a great young defender in Ronnie Brewer for $4-5mil/ year. We get a better shooter in Miller and a great defender in Brewer who is younger than Pietrus. If we needed to throw in Hairston or Gee to get the deal done, then that would be fine too. Thoughts?

• Jim Henderson
  July 5th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

  Proposed Trade:

  The Clippers are an up-tempo team, and they need a small forward (VERY unlikely they get LeBron). I say we do a sign & trade with RJ & Mahinmi (I believe he has Bird rights), to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan & a 5 million dollar trade exception.

  Both RJ & Mahinmi could thrive in the Clippers up-tempo, offensive-minded system. Assuming a 3-4 year deal for RJ at 8 mil. per, about 1.8 mil. per for Ian, and 2.8 mil for the 8th pick, Aminu, the Clippers would still have about 13 million to sign 6 other role players/deep bench guys to fill out the roster, and stay within the cap. New team:

  Davis
  Gordon
  Jefferson, Aminu
  B. Griffin
  Kaman, Mahinmi

  (2nd round pick, Warren?)

  That’s a pretty potent seven players.

  Then, use their 12-13 million remaining for 5-6 additional players: about 9 mil. for 2-3 solid rotation players ( a couple of guards and/or a swingman, and a PF/C), and 3 million for three reserves at the vet minimum.

  Jordan is a YOUNG and an exceptionally athletic BIG (6’11″, 250 lbs.) that plays extraordinary “D” for his age (22). He’s an excellent shot-blocker (15th in the league per 48 minutes, at 2.62), and has exceptional lateral quickness for his size, which helps him with off the low-block pick and roll “D”. His offensive game is still quite raw, but he’s also a very good rebounder (13th in the league per 48 minutes, at 14+/g.). With the trade exception, we could get the SF/defender/shooter that we need. New team:

  Parker, Hill
  Manu, Anderson
  SF (thru trade exception), Gee/Hairston
  Duncan, Blair
  Splitter, Jordan

  I would still consider trading McDyess, and we still have the LLE. I’d try to get another “game” 3-point shooter, and/or “defensive” wing. The SF through the trade exception also needs to be a good defender AND shooter.

  I would put the following 6 guys on that short list:

  Mike Miller
  Raja Bell
  Anthony Morrow
  Josh Childress
  Dorell Wright
  Travis Outlaw

  Perhaps something like this would work/help our team compete. Otherwise, in my view, we still must consider deals involving TP.

• Jim Henderson
  July 5th, 2010 at 7:32 pm

  hobson13
  July 5th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

  “I would absolutely do this trade. Duncan would need to “officially” move to C and let Bosh play his natural position as a PF.”

  Yes, you’re right. And that was my intention.

  “It would take Parker resigning with the Raps to make this deal come true. I don’t have the answer concerning whether or not Parker cooperates…”

  For the right price he might! Also, Toronto is a pretty large, cosmopolitan city, and would be just a quick hop to TP & Eva’s favorite stomping ground: NYC. I think Parker would like to get a nice deal in place before the CBA goes into effect.

  “I can see a team like NY getting antsy and offering RJ a 4 year $40mill deal. If Amare is worth $20 mil/year surely RJ is worth half that to some ignoramous?!? What about a sign and trade for Mike Miller (who is reportedly wanting $6mil/year) and a great young defender in Ronnie Brewer for $4-5mil/ year.”

  I like the players you have us getting in this deal, but because there’s 4 different teams involved, I just don’t understand how that would work. RJ, regardless of whether he signs with NY, is no longer counted against our cap (he’s an unrestricted FA now), and as a team we’re still at about 52 million in payroll. How then do we sign 2 FA’s, from 2 different teams for a combined 10-11 million per year with cap restriction at 56 million? Also, we’re using the MLE to sign Splitter. We can’t use BOTH the MLE and “under the cap” money to sign other FA’s.

• Hobson13
  July 5th, 2010 at 8:49 pm

  “I like the players you have us getting in this deal, but because there’s 4 different teams involved, I just don’t understand how that would work.”

  I don’t believe there would be 4 different teams involved. Both Brewer and Miller are unrestricted Free Agents. The only teams involved would be Knicks and Spurs.

  “RJ, regardless of whether he signs with NY, is no longer counted against our cap (he’s an unrestricted FA now), and as a team we’re still at about 52 million in payroll. How then do we sign 2 FA’s, from 2 different teams for a combined 10-11 million per year with cap restriction at 56 million?”

  This sign and trade would be feasible because we have RJ’s Bird Rights which gives us the ability to resign RJ even if we go over the cap. Once RJ is resigned then we would just need to work out a deal with Ronnie Brewer, Mike Miller, and whatever team was wanting to sign RJ. This would also preserve our MLE to use on Splitter. If we do not work out a sign and trade scenario with RJ, then we are doomed to use only the LLE and MLE to sign the players we need (which won’t be enough). This is why I am pushing for a sign and trade with RJ. Otherwise we won’t have enough cap space to bring back any pieces and the team we currently have (even with Splitter) won’t go very far.

• johnny
  July 5th, 2010 at 8:59 pm

  The way a team like the Spurs has to rebuild is through the draft. They are not going to get a Lebron in free agency. They need to ride these championship winning players and put pieces around them to try and succeed now. When that period is over they will need one or two horrible seasons and get lucky in the draft (#1 pick in a great draft with a game changing player) and also draft good players and start the process of building contending team all over again. When the Duncan era is over there will not be some magical process that will keep the Spurs contending, It will take a few years. So keep with this contending team add pieces to help the core 3 and hope that everything clicks.

• Lenneezz
  July 5th, 2010 at 9:38 pm

  @ Hobson
  “Once RJ is resigned then we would just need to work out a deal with Ronnie Brewer, Mike Miller, and whatever team was wanting to sign RJ.”

  Teams can’t sign a FA and then trade him. The Knicks couldn’t sign Miller or Brewer and then trade him for RJ.

  http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q78

• Lenneezz
  July 5th, 2010 at 9:43 pm

  If they were willing to keep the players on the roster, than they could make the trade Dec. 15. I doubt that would appeal to either the Spurs or their trading partner.

• Jim Henderson
  July 5th, 2010 at 9:52 pm

  Hobson13
  July 5th, 2010 at 8:49 pm

  “Once RJ is resigned then we would just need to work out a deal with Ronnie Brewer, Mike Miller, and whatever team was wanting to sign RJ.”

  I fail to understand how you plan to sign Miller & Brewer? Do you really think a team is going to want RJ over BOTH Miller AND Brewer? I just really don’t think RJ has that kind of value, even in this market. If the market is over-valued for RJ, it’s probably over-valued for Miller & Brewer as well.

  “If we do not work out a sign and trade scenario with RJ, then we are doomed to use only the LLE and MLE to sign the players we need (which won’t be enough).”

  I agree. So what are your thoughts about the RJ sign & trade with the Clippers that I proposed earlier on this thread?

  johnny
  July 5th, 2010 at 8:59 pm

  “The way a team like the Spurs has to rebuild is through the draft.”

  You can also rebuild through trades & free agency.

  “They need to ride these championship winning players and put pieces around them to try and succeed now.”

  We don’t have low enough draft picks to get enough production quick enough. It’s VERY unlikely we can get enough quality young talent by tinkering, and leaving the big three intact.

  “When that period is over they will need one or two horrible seasons and get lucky in the draft…..”

  I don’t see ANY “horrible” seasons for this team for quite some time, even after Duncan is retired for a few years. It would more than likely be a considerably slow death; not at all appealing, or necessary. We should instead be trying to get some talented young talent back by trading TP while he still has significant value to other teams. We should continue to steadily rebuild with young talent (through the draft, trades, & FA) to keep the Spurs very competitive over the next several years. If we’re lucky, we could have a good shot at winning the title again over the next 2-5 years, like the Pistons did in 2004.

• Jim Henderson
  July 5th, 2010 at 10:13 pm

  Lenneezz
  July 5th, 2010 at 9:38 pm

  “Teams can’t sign a FA and then trade him. The Knicks couldn’t sign Miller or Brewer and then trade him for RJ.”

  “…….If they were willing to keep the players on the roster, than they could make the trade Dec. 15. I doubt that would appeal to either the Spurs or their trading partner.”

  Yeah, you’re right. Outside of doing a sign & trade with your own team’s free agent, a team cannot sign an unrestricted FA from another team and turn around and quickly trade him. The rule is explained under question #82 at the link below:

  “82. When can a team trade a free agent it signs? Do they have to keep him forever?…

  ….Generally, a player cannot be traded until three months after signing a contract or December 15th of that season, whichever is later.”

  http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q82

• Easy b
  July 5th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

  The team has already spent 14 mil teaching Jefferson the spurs system . I think everyone takes this point too lightly when considering sign and trades and all that. We have an athletic and experienced small forward who will probably give us 14 and 4 per game this year. I think that’s pretty good at 8 mill a year in this market. We just need that quality big (splitter) and we are balling. Come trade deadline , there will be plenty of bargains available and we can sign a vet guard to try and lift us another gear and offset inevitable injuries

• Jim Henderson
  July 6th, 2010 at 12:35 am

  For one thing, I don’t think that RJ prefers to re-sign with us. He knows he’s not a great fit with our system, and would rather play in an up-tempo offense. Furthermore, RJ does not play the type of consistent defense we need out our SF position, and his spot-up 3-point game is not proficient enough.

  Secondly, the addition of Splitter is far from enough to get us into title contention. We need size, youth, AND shot-blocking on our front line. Splitter is not a very good shot-blocker. We also need to upgrade our perimeter defense with at least one, preferably two players, at least one of which has to be an excellent & dependable 3-point shooter, including in the playoffs. We are much further away from challenging for a title than your comment suggests.

  Also, adding players at the trade deadline rarely ends up boosting a team as much as advertised. There’s an inevitable transition period that has to occur. February to April is not enough time to sufficiently incorporate any new addition(s) so that the entire team is ready for “playoff quality” basketball.

• johnny
  July 6th, 2010 at 5:14 am

  What I am saying is these trades for pieces like RJ are fine but trading away Parker or whoever with an eye towards the post Duncan era is foolish. Star players make the NBA and Super Star players run the NBA. Star players get you to the playoffs but super star players win series in the playoffs as long as they have the surrounding talent. Basically what I am saying is that San Antonio needs operate with these next few seasons in mind. In order to contend after the Duncan era they are going to have to luck into a truly game changing great player and use the skills of the front office to put players around him.

• bduran
  July 6th, 2010 at 5:49 am

  “We need size, youth, AND shot-blocking on our front line.”

  You know we don’t really need shot blocking. We need what is usually associated with it which is regularly contesting shots. To use an overly one sided example, if I block 5 shots a game but take every other defensive play off than so what. Most defensive bigs happen to be at least decent shot blockers. Supposedly Splitter is one of those players who stays at home and regularly contests shots without getting a bunch of blocks. Ultimately, we want to prevent easy baskets at close range and Splitter, supposedly, is an immediate upgrade in this department.

  I think at this point the 3 spot is far more important to address than adding depth to our front line. I would certainly like more depth, but for me it’s not the priority, SF is.

• Easy B
  July 6th, 2010 at 6:57 am

  @jim
  by balling, I’m not necessarily saying champions…but we are in the mix, albeit probably relying too heavily on intangiable improvements within the team. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like nothing more than to see some quality guard signing to start the season, and yes someone who fits more naturally into the spurs system at small forward. But what is most likely to transpire this off season for the small market San Antonio spurs? Hauling Splitter and developing our youth is the probable outcome.

• Easy B
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:05 am

  As far as late season pick-ups..I agree, but you gotta do what you gotta do in this business to add talent and save money….

• Lenneezz
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:14 am

  Ya know all this talk about developing our young talent is fine. But, doesn’t everyone think that every other team is also developing their young talent? I mean sure, some talent outdevelops other. But, saying our development is going to outproduce every other contendor enough to catipult us into serious championship contention? Ahhh, that’s a stretch.

• Lenneezz
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:21 am

  Even adding Splitter to the mix. That is not enough. Let me tell ya this; If Greg Oden comes back the Trailblazers will absolutely crush us. Tiago will help but he is not better than Oden defensively. That is where we need help and that is what will ultimately win a championship.

  It’s great to dream but let’s be a bit more realistic.

• doggydogworld
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:30 am

  @Hobson: “If we do not work out a sign and trade scenario with RJ, then we are doomed to use only the LLE and MLE”

  Not doomed. We have Bird rights for players like Mason, Mahinmi and even Robert Horry. A deal for a solid $3-6m role player might be easier using these options than RJ’s desired 4/40.

• TradeTP
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:38 am

  DNITCH- Again the fat kids come out to play. Its not just about being STATISTICALLY better. Its about being a fit with the system that can help us win. I dint disregard evidence. I asked you how many rings Fisher has and how many times HE HAS SINGLE HANDEDLY WON A GAME / SERIES. The answer to both is more than Parker. If we wanted to play one on one or have a foot race I would take Parker in a heartbeat. If I wanted a PG who played both ends of the floor, and could hit FTs, and would do anything to win for less money, I would take Fisher. The original point is we need, in our system, a pg that defers and doesnt need the ball every second to be successful.

  Bushka- I know enough about basketball to say that McDyess was an awful sign. You on the other-hand basically threw a party for winning a ring…

  Henderson- Duh… Parker scored 84 pts that series. Against Hughes, Snow, and Gibson. None of those guys play defense. Trying to argue that shows your inability to grasp the game. Parker was out assisted that series by both manu and Tim. And turned the ball over more than both as well. Hell Robert HORRY had more assists that series. Again Parker scores. He lit up a shit team. WOW. Its not 2007 anymore and Parker didnt CHANGE the series. Granted he was a big part, but really its not fair to say that he was the only one who could do it from the PG position. TD was the MVP of that series. Parker got it for avg 22pts 2 apg. Tim had 18ppg 11rpg 4apg…

• hurm66
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:39 am

  I think Stoudamire is going to seriously miss Nash. That said, I know Steve would never ask for a trade, but this is his last year of his current contract and if you’re going all in - I believe he can be had in a trade. I think the Suns would have to honor it since he’s given so much to the franchise.

  Some team would have to sacrifice young talent for this gamble, but everyone would be rooting for Nash to succeed. Probably a trade deadline deal, but watch for it.

• Lenneezz
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:51 am

  @doggy
  “We have Bird rights for players like Mason, Mahinmi and even Robert Horry”

  We cut Ian, Mason would not resign here even if we were desperate enough to offer and Horry? Horry? Let me smoke what you are tokin on. Dude, you are gonna have to do WAY better than that weak @ss comment.

• Lenneezz
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:53 am

  Pardon, we didn’t pick up Ian’s option. Thousand apologies.

• Hobson13
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:04 am

  Lenneezz
  July 5th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
  “Teams can’t sign a FA and then trade him. The Knicks couldn’t sign Miller or Brewer and then trade him for RJ.”

  @Jim and Lenneezz,
  Ok now I see what you and Jim are getting at. Damn, you boys know your CBA rules. So, in essence we are limited to trading RJ for a player already signed by their current team and a trade exception for the remaining difference between RJ’s and player X’s strategy. Ok, these kind of deals may, in fact, make it easier for another team to trade with us. Instead of us having to already have agreements with two other players (Ex: Mike Miller and Ronnie Brewer) before we talk with teams (Clippers, NY, etc.) we can take a cheaper player off their hands and worry about signing another player with the trade exception after the trade is made.

  Jim
  “I say we do a sign & trade with RJ & Mahinmi (I believe he has Bird rights), to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan & a 5 million dollar trade exception.”

  It would appear that this kind of deal is about the best we can hope for if we are looking to do a sign and trade with essentially only RJ (no Parker involved trade). Trade RJ for a young, cheap player and use a $5-6mil trade exception to lure another wing.

  I just read that Toronto has ok’ed a Bosh trade to Cleveland that would net them Anderson Varejao, Delonte West, and Anthony Parker plus some draft pick (unknown the details of pick) in exchange for Bosh. If the Raptors would be willing to pull the trigger on this trade, they should be more than willing to go for two guys like Tony Parker and Tiago Splitter. Delonte West is a headcase and Anthony Parker is a scrub. Parker is a bonafide all star and Splitter should be as good as Varejao except probably cheaper. I sure wish the Spurs would get in on some trade action.

• duaneofly
  July 6th, 2010 at 10:01 am

  Lenneezz, the point of having those player’s bird rights isn’t to sign them so they can play for us, but rather to sign them to small, partially guaranteed contracts and use them in a sign and trade. An example of this is the Lakers using Aaron Mckee in a sign and trade in the Pau Gasol deal. Mckee was done playing, but since he wasn’t retired, he was still able to be signed and traded to make salaries match. Robert Horry could be used in the same way.

• td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 10:17 am

  Hobson13-
  One week ago I started telling guys at work that the only way LBJ stays in CLE is if they trade Varejao and pieces for Bosh… is this really happening? Bosh is the key to this FA period, he is not going to CHI because he will be traded so he can get his max money. Unlike Bron and Wade he needs his guaranteed $, as he is not yet an endorsement machine, and Toronto doesn’t want Deng. If no S&T for Bosh or Boozer (if they can get his from Utah w/o giving up Varjao), then Bron will leave CLE leaving money on the table
  Wade will stay in Mia if they can can add Boozer or Bron, otherwise it’s Chicago for him for less than his Bird-max.

  But the key is Toronto and Bosh both have to like the S&T. Toronto has already rejected MIA and CHI and NY, so Bosh WILL NOT end up there. But Bosh is requiring it to be a winner. The list of possibilities is Cle, either LA team, Hou, OKC, Dal, SA, and maybe Utah. I doubt the lakers are seriously considering him, and I think he’d probably reject the Clippers, and probably Utah as well. SA can give him as good a chance to win as anybody but he might reject the Spurs outright and here’s why.

  We are not the Lakers or Los Angeles, and he’d rather join a team to be part of creating their title era, instead of just extending it. In SA, even if Pop promised to center the offense on him, he’d be historically in Duncan’s shadow, he’d be a guy that helped Tim win more rings. People would talk about the great TD teams, and sometimes they’d mention the Bosh teams, sometimes not. If he’s gonna go to a small-market team, he’d probably pick Cleveland over SA, and join his buddy and put them on the map together.
  Further, with LBJ or Yao, they’d be a big media eye on his team. He has a new agent and want to build his brand. He and his reps think SA is a poor choice for him, which I think is myopic, but oh well
  If OKC or Houston, or even Dallas, can give Toronto as good a deal as Cleveland can, they have a real shot at getting him. I think the Spurs can offer Toronto the most, but if Toronto is happy with the Clevcland package as you say, Bosh will go there.

  I think this is why we haven’t heard much about Splitter or anyone else, and why NY signed Amare (Toronto rejected NY as an insufficient trade partner). We are in play. Your news of the Toronto approval bodes poorly for our chances, Bosh’s team is probably pushing Hou, Portland, OKC, and others to up their trade bid.
  Personally, I would love to give them Parker or Splitter and RJ, but not both TP and Splitter. Although we’d probably have to part with Splitter, b/c those he’d balk at being giving a bench role, but wow, that would give us a great front line rotation. If we do have to give both Tiago and TP, I just about require Jack in return. I like Jack a lot on the Spurs.

• hobson13
  July 6th, 2010 at 11:05 am

  @Td4life,

  I absolutely agree with your assessment. Getting Bosh would be a long shot. Probably just as long as getting Lebron. Bosh wants a bigger/sexier market like Chicago or Miami. He even appears to be balking at the possibility of going to Cleveland with Lebron.

  I swear! There are even more rumors out today regarding a Parker to NY trade. I really do believe that the Knicks will go hard after Parker if they can’t get Lebron or Wade. From a basketball perspective, it makes too much sense for the Knicks not woo the Spurs into letting Parker go. Whether we trade Parker is, of course, a different story. Once the big pieces fall (Lebron and Wade), I think the Spurs will make some sort of move. Whatever move that may be is anyone’s guess.

• Tyler
  July 6th, 2010 at 11:50 am

  Fisher > Parker?

  Do we really even have to “debate” this?

  The lack of love TP gets from Spurs’ fans never ceases to amaze me.

• DieHardSpur
  July 6th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

  Tyler, I am with you.

  I dont understand where all the hate for TP comes from… is it because his last name isnt Duncan or Ginobili?

  If I was TP, I think I would want to go play with a team whose fans appreciate what I brought to the table, not just bash me for every little thing I did wrong…

  We love ya TP. Stay around please….!!!

• td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

  Hobson13,
  we almost agree… Spurs have a MUCH better chance of getting Bosh than LBJ, in that they have no chance at LeBron, but Bosh is limited to win-win S&T destinations, which means that Mia and Chi are impossible (Toronto wants none of their pieces- this also disqualified NY, prompting the Amare signing). Cleveland and SA are both very much in play for Bosh.

  But, yes, Bosh would probably choose Cleveland, Houston, OKC, and Portland over SA. If Toronto & Bosh weren’t still considering SA’s offer, we’d probably have heard some Splitter news already.

  LBJ’s moves are being held up by Bosh and the possibility of him coming to CLE. Boozer is also holding off on going to MIA or CHI with Wade, pending Bosh going somewhere other than CLE, which opens up a bigger S&T payday for Carlos in Cleveland. The NBA world is waiting on Bosh, not LeBron, to make his decision.

  If Toronto pressures Bosh to go to the Spurs, because they love our proposal way above any others, then he might see the light… Bosh might, in turn, insist that Jack (his favorite team-mate last season) is sent to SA with him.

  Jack, Hill, Manu, Anderson
  (Jefferson, Hairston or Free Agents)
  Bosh, DB
  TD, McD

• zainn
  July 6th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

  so, tradetp, i honestly dont think fisher would be a better fit for our team than parker, but do you think that if we had fisher instead of parker next season, we would win a championship?

• lvmainman
  July 6th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

  Spurs clearly are too timid to make any more changes after the Jefferson fiasco of last year.

  Otherwise, they would have used their 6 expiring contracts last year, to upgrade the team.

  So, all this hopefulness for the Spurs is pretty much a waste of time.

  I will be watching the Spurs summer league team on Monday July 12th to see if Grizzly Blair, Gee, Hairston, and Temple have improved their games. Is Anderson going to play or is he still injured?

• TradeTP
  July 6th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

  Tyler&Diehard- No we shouldnt have to debate it. The evidence is clear. Better all around player = Fisher better scorer = TP. More damage done in playoffs = Fisher. Please take a look at advanced playoff stats for a better understanding of the idea. I know its hard for most people to understand this idea but BASKETBALL IS NOT JUST ABOUT SCORING POINTS. Unfortunately some people have no clue.

  Hobson- “them Anderson Varejao, Delonte West, and Anthony Parker plus some draft pick (unknown the details of pick) in exchange for Bosh.”

  Has to make you wonder doesnt it. I would rather have Parker alone then all three of those losers. You would think if we sent them RJ/Parker they would love it. Plus it brings Bosh back to TX. Where hes from right?

• DieHardSpur
  July 6th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

  Trade TP - I started digging up some stats to prove the idiocy of a world where Fisher is better than Parker; but i decided it wasnt worth my time show something to a blind man.

  If you honestly think that Fisher is better, in any aspect, you are sorely mistaken.

  You have no ground for your argument whatsoever…

• doggydogworld
  July 6th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

  @Duaneofly - thanks for educating Lenneezz. You show much more patience than I would have.

  @DieHardSpur - Why not spend 3 hours digging up advanced stats to show TP > Fisher? It’ll be fun. And you’ll totally convince TradeTP. Really. He always listens to reason.

• Lenneezz
  July 6th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

  @Duanefly
  “Lenneezz, the point of having those player’s bird rights isn’t to sign them so they can play for us, but rather to sign them to small, partially guaranteed contracts and use them in a sign and trade”

  That is true Duane. Did you know that S&T’s are only used in 2 instances?
  1. The team receiving the player is over the cap
  2. If the FA thinks he can get more money from the trading team. i.e. Get the trading team to offer an extra year as guaranteed by the CBA

  They are not sure things. I suppose a team could try to use Horry’s cap space (was he under contract for this year?) for some manuvering if they were desperate.

• Lenneezz
  July 6th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

  Doggy, I would be oh so pleased if your rude self never even acknowledged me. You can’t insult me and then expect civil convo.

  Or didn’t u know that?

• Jim Henderson
  July 6th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

  johnny
  July 6th, 2010 at 5:14 am

  “What I am saying is these trades for pieces like RJ are fine but trading away Parker or whoever with an eye towards the post Duncan era is foolish.”

  I know what you’re saying, and I thought I made it quite clear in my previous post as to why I disagreed.

  bduran
  July 6th, 2010 at 5:49 am

  “You know we don’t really need shot blocking.”

  I just showed you the data with a post at a previous thread that the Spurs shot-blocking has tanked compared to ALL their best years, including their title years. What, are you suggesting it’s just a coincident indicator? Show me some compelling evidence that would support that contention.

  “We need what is usually associated with it which is regularly contesting shots.”

  We need more of that IN ADDITION to more “shot-blocking”, not in place of it.

  “Supposedly Splitter is one of those players who stays at home and regularly contests shots without getting a bunch of blocks. Ultimately, we want to prevent easy baskets at close range and Splitter, supposedly, is an immediate upgrade in this department.”

  I agree. I’M NOT SAYING THAT WE WANT MORE SHOT-BLOCKING AT THE EXPENSE OF SOLID POSITION DEFENSE! That’s a given. But adding shot-blocking is often the defensive “bonus” necessary to get over the hump to a title.

  “I think at this point the 3 spot is far more important to address than adding depth to our front line.”

  In my view, BOTH are equally important if you have any plans of “winning a title”.

  Easy B
  July 6th, 2010 at 6:57 am

  “by balling, I’m not necessarily saying champions…but we are in the mix, albeit probably relying too heavily on intangiable improvements within the team.”

  That is correct. There’s too much “hoping”, or “if’s” to have a bonafide shot at the title for my tastes. I’d like a realistic shot at another title in the next couple years. We’re not going to do it with too much of the status quo.

  “Hauling Splitter and developing our youth is the probable outcome.”

  Maybe so, but that’s consigning the team to a WCF “appearance” at best.

  TradeTP
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:38 am

  “I asked you how many rings Fisher has and how many times HE HAS SINGLE HANDEDLY WON A GAME / SERIES. The answer to both is more than Parker.”

  You continue to make these bold assertions with NO EVIDENCE to back you up. Why is that?

  “Parker scored 84 pts that series. Against Hughes, Snow, and Gibson. None of those guys play defense.”

  You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. Snow & Hughes have always been very good defenders. And quit making up data. Parker had 98 points in that series, in four games, a 24.5 ppg. average.

  “Parker was out assisted that series by both manu and Tim.”

  One thing you fail to understand: OUR SYSTEM HAS ALWAYS RUN THROUGH DUNCAN (it used to more during our title years when Tim was still in his prime). As a result, Duncan, being the good passer that he is, will get his fair share of assists. And Manu is one of the best passing shooting guards in the NBA. WE DON’T HAVE A PG CENTERED PASSING ATTACK. That’s not our system. We rely on good passing & teamwork from all of our top players. That said, stop making up data. Manu did not have more assists than Parker in that series. Duncan had two more (probably to TP, since he had the most makes & attempts, while shooting a sizzling 57%). Also, Horry had the same number of assists as Parker, not more.

  “He lit up a shit team. WOW.”

  A team that has LeBron James, wins 50 games, and was ranked 4th in the NBA defensively that year, could not possibly be characterized as a “shit team”.

  “TD was the MVP of that series. Parker got it for avg 22pts 2 apg.”

  Making up data again. Parker deserved it by averaging 24.5 ppg., 3.3 apg., and shot 57% from the field. The series was a defensive battle, and Parker spearheaded our offense. And that was the difference-maker.

• Bushka
  July 6th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

  Looks like Romaju is off to greener pastures. If only he could have joined Kobe, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and Ron Artest in title land….

  Sadly the lakers already have a new guard in Steve Blake a noted all star and future hall of famer to replace the aging all universe Derek Fisher. Of course he cannot replace the genius that was Derek, he is but one man.

  Fisher however, is not rated as highly as Steve Kerr, the small white guy with the buzz saw hair cut who sank big jumpers in finals games for teams like the MichaelJordaniares and the SanAntonio Tim&Daves, where he totally dominated and created shots.

  Statues will be erected worldwide when Mr.Fisher retires apparently.

  In a rare comment Derek said he was honoured to be honoured for his important work with the KobeshaqsandassortedallstarsIhaveplayedwithyetsurprisinglyneveronanallstarteam.

  In other breaking news it has beendiscovered that John Paxson is apparently the greatest bulls player of all time after footage was reviewed of the teams 2 three peats. He was spotted on various occassions hitting an open jump shot while playing with much over rated Michael Jordan.
  …………………………….

  Welcome to the Idiocy that is the universe Tradetp is living in.

• td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

  @Ivmainman
  The Spurs are being active in trades, but the odds are long of pulling off suitable upgrades. The guys you named may well be important to us if they show development, I don’t have much hope for Hairston, and I believe Anderson will be side-lined by injury. I read Blair is not playing due to working out privately, but I’d think the SL would be a good place to test his mid-range shot. One guy to really watch is Ryan Richards… I don’t expect much from him next year, but relative to the other longshots on our roster, this guy has the most potential to be a real asset for the Spurs.
  Looking for signs of hope means hoping for some big-time steals out of this summers draft picks.

• Bushka
  July 6th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

  Richards is someone that could really step into a role if he can just knock down 3 pointers and learn the system. I see him as a D Leaguer who if he gets it down could play Bonners minutes.

  I agree that it is probably a year away.

• td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

  I’ll say this about Parker and Fisher:
  If the best of each were combined into one player, that would be one hell of a good point guard, and NOBODY would be talking about trading him.

• Jim Henderson
  July 6th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

  Hobson13
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:04 am

  “I just read that Toronto has ok’ed a Bosh trade to Cleveland that would net them Anderson Varejao, Delonte West, and Anthony Parker plus some draft pick (unknown the details of pick) in exchange for Bosh.”

  Toronto should not agree to take West off their hands. Despite some talent, he’s a head case. Otherwise, Parker & Varejao are good pieces for Toronto, two pieces that the Cavs would clearly miss (an excellent 3-point shooter & an excellent defender). I don’t think it makes sense for the Raptors to absorb West’s headache & contract. Bosh is gone either way. In the final analysis, Toronto doesn’t have THAT MUCH leverage here.

  td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 10:17 am

  “If we do have to give both Tiago and TP, I just about require Jack in return. I like Jack a lot on the Spurs.”

  That was essentially my trade offer from the other day:

  TP, Splitter, & McDyess for Bosh & Jack.

  They might not take the deal without Dice thrown in. Besides, we need more room to give Blair minutes, in my view. We would just need to sign another defensive/shot-blocking big with the LLE, for a 12-15 mpg. role in the rotation. Amundson & J. Anthony are my top picks that are available, for such a meager salary. We would need to use an RJ S&T to get us a solid SF.

• Bushka
  July 6th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

  Joel Anthony would be my pick to fill in if this trade went through, I think he might be a tough nut to pry away from Miami though. They don’t really have a lot of players under contract, and he fills a niche for em.

• Bushka
  July 6th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

  What i meant was that I think Miami will try to bring him back.

• td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

  Henderson-

  (As a quick side-note: yes, I acknowledge you as the source of the Bosh+Jack proposal, and that it’s worth considering, even if it ain’t perfect.)

  Cleveland will give up almost anything to keep Bron and get Bosh. Toronto will gladly take West esp. if it means getting Varejao, Hickson, a future first rounder. And anyway, both teams have already approved such a trade. The holdup is Bosh. I doubt Bosh would rather come to SA over going to CLE to play with LBJ.
  But if Toronto plays hardball, in love with our offer, they might pressure him… it’s a real long shot.
  Bosh is holding out right now, strictly for a bigger market, if NJ or Chi (sacrificing Noah) can offer an acceptable trade package, then Bosh can PROBABLY get Wade or LBJ to join up.

  I say “probably” because:
  * Bron won’t leave CLE, if they can get Bosh or Boozer (wherein they can maybe keep Varejao or Hickson, sending Big Z instead).
  * And Wade might stay in Mia, even if all they get is Lee, but for sure would take his Bird-payday if they could get Boozer.
  * I don’t think Chi gives up Noah for Bosh, unless they are certain of getting Wade or LBJ… so without teaming alongside Wade or LBJ, would Bosh rather get paid in New Jersey or SA (or some other dark horse)?

  It’s VERY fluid, and the Spurs have to be considered somewhere between 4th and 8th in the Chris Bosh sweepstakes. Possibly behind Houston, Dallas, and Portland. That’s unless Toronto plays hardball and gambles that Bosh will not walk, and Toronto thinks our offer is worth the risk. Otherwise you are counting on Bosh to suddenly realize what a great situation SA represents. I’m not counting on it.

  I’m ready for Bosh to make up his mind, and all the big names to fall in place after that, and finally see whether or not we are stuck with RJ.

  After we sign Tiago, how do we get our hands on Wright and all the other pieces we need? Long odds, in deed. Pop is trying to transform RJ this summer, but Pop will never give him the tenacious desire and cluthness we need from him, so I’m finding myself hoping for shocking returns from our young’uns and draft picks.

• duaneofly
  July 6th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

  Lenneezz, signing and trading players are also used in a third instance, to make salaries match. As I already mentioned, using Aaron Mckee in the Pau Gasol deal.

  One example I can give off the top of my head. We decide to trade Tony Parker, but the salaries are still 2 million dollars low. So instead of us adding in a cheap player like Blair to make the salaries match, we could sign Robert Horry to a one year, two million dollar contract (that’s also partially guaranteed) and use him to make salaries match.

  The reason we’d do this is because we are able to complete the trade, but without giving up an asset we want to keep. The reason the other team would do this is because they could waive Horry and save money due to his partially guaranteed contract.

  Please check out this link about Aaron Mckie that shows he was signed by the Lakers (who had his bird rights) and traded to Memphis to make salaries match, he was then waived.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_McKie

• Bushka
  July 6th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

  We’d have to won the rights to that player though Duane, to be able to sign him and trade him. The other query is if we do that prior to Splitter signing on I think…not 100% and will let someone else check it out, it would effect our ability to offer him the full MLE….

  Someone get on that right away would you

• Bushka
  July 6th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

  O GOD “wed have to won…” i meant obviously

  we’d have to OWN

• Jim Henderson
  July 6th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

  What would be great is if we could pull of the Raptor trade proposal:

  TP, Splitter, & McDyess

  for Bosh (sign & trade) & Jack

  See: Jim Henderson
  July 4th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

  …….and the Clipper trade proposal:

  A sign & trade with RJ & Mahinmi (I believe he has Bird rights), to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan & a 5 million dollar trade exception (give or take a million). If we have to include a future second round pick, I say do it. Jordan would be a perfect fit on our team with the Bosh acquisition.

  See: Jim Henderson
  July 5th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

  I’m not sure with the Splitter deal if we’d still have the MLE, but either way, we could use a solid wing & an extra shooter. So, even if we have to sign Splitter before executing the trade to the Raptors, we’d still have the trade exception from the Clippers to sign a solid SF.

  With these two trades, we could have the following team:

  Hill, Jack
  Manu, Anderson
  Wright (through trade exception), Gee
  Duncan, Jordan
  Bosh, Blair

  Amundson, or another shooter (probably one-dimensional) with the LLE. Plus Temple, a vet minimum contract or two to fill out the roster (if Gee’s in, Hairston’s probably out).

  Now that is a team with good size, a nice mix of youth & veterans, guys that can hit the three, defends inside and out, blocks shots, and scores from outside, in the paint, and at the rim.

  And that my friends is a title contender!

• Jim Henderson
  July 6th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

  By the way, for those of you that have been dissing on Amare Stoudemire, if that guy is complimented by the right pieces, he is a VERY tough guy to stop, and could be a very valuable player in a quest for a championship. Obviously, the Knicks are a long ways off from that. The smartest thing the Knicks could do is forget about LeBron, etc. They should do whatever it takes to get a guy like Haywood (in other words, a very solid defensive center), and an excellent PG. Obviously someone like Chris Paul would be perfect, but they’d have to get rid of Curry’s anchor of an expiring contract somehow (buy-out?) to pull it off financially, and of course pray that an offer of Gallinari, Bill Walker, and Toney Douglass, and maybe a pick, would be enough to do the trick. But the point is, Amare would be very dangerous with a big, tall defender next to him on the front line, and a top level PG.

  No question, Amare, Haywood, & Paul would be a very good threesome to surround with a handful of decent role players. They would likely become a playoff team instantly, and that’s a start.

  Sure, Amare has his weaknesses, but he has often been a very dominant scorer. If he’s surrounded by good passers & defenders, he can be a big fat handful to deal with.

• Jim Henderson
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:11 pm

  Breaking News:

  James will make his decision as to where he’s going to play next year as part of an ESPN special presentation at 9PM eastern time, Thursday, July 8.

• td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

  @Jim Henderson

  I don’t see why the Clips would trade Jordon, they are now short on Bigs, especially centers. The SF is a less important position. In general, though, Jordon is very much a project, he is confused on both ends of the floor- his current coach has talked about how he promises him minutes based on defensive effort, and yet Jordon has earned inconsistent minutes… So don’t be at all surprised if he turns out to be a bust rather than the difference maker you have the Spurs pegging him as. Think of all the bigs you’ve seen join the Spurs over the last 10 years only to eventually move on, from Samaki Walker to Ian, and think of Jordon in that context. It is much more likely that a promising player makes a mediocre pro than a good one. I wouldn’t count on him to reach the heights of a Mikki Moore, Chris Wilcox, or Francisco Elson in his career, all guys who at least had some confidence about them. Hopefully I am wrong. Sadly, talented big men, not to mention defensive studs are very few and far between.

  As far as Amare goes… he and D’Antoni WON’T win titles. He’s a tool who overvalues himself, overpromises and underdelivers because he doesn’t know what it takes to win… he’s all about the hype right down to his nickname. Because he can score, he thinks he’s truly great, and doesn’t seem to realize that he NEEDS a defensive big to make him shine (and neither does Mike D). Heck, he doesn’t even rebound. Not to mention that Melo admitted he hadn’t talked to STAT about coming to NYC. Amare is full of sshhiitt.
  Good defensive bigs don’t come cheap, and NYC doesn’t appear focused on getting one, they want splashy names. Expect fewer wins, and fewer finals appearances, from Amare than Ewing delivered. Watch him sulk when they pile up more losses than he’s used to.
  Chris Paul is not available.

• Bushka
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:51 pm

  I didn’t think it was possible for me to be less enthralled with Lebron James (who I find to be somewhat of a tit), however this trite one hour announcement B.S on national television does it for me.

  This entire Free Agency fiasco has finally run the gamut from the sublime to the ridiculous.

  What a shame. What an absolute shame.

• td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:01 pm

  Why is Chris Broussard so uptight and serious?

  Every time I’ve seen him report on the FA scenarios I get the distinct impression he is struggling to contain an overwhelmingly gassy colon and, perhaps, drown out and otherwise distract the ESPN anchor and crew from his irrepressible methane explosions.

• Hobson13
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:14 pm

  Bushka
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:51 pm

  “This entire Free Agency fiasco has finally run the gamut from the sublime to the ridiculous.”

  You’re not kidding. Lebron’s 1 hour “Special” has taken this show from ridiculous to bordering on narcissistic. What’s next, a Presidential address from Obama? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player (in ANY sport) have a 1 hour ESPN special to announce where he is signing. Unreal…

  Jim Henderson
  July 6th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
  “By the way, for those of you that have been dissing on Amare Stoudemire, if that guy is complimented by the right pieces, he is a VERY tough guy to stop.”

  Sure, but you can say the same about a ton of players in the association. Now we get to really see what Amare is made of. For years, he has believed he had the stuff to be THE MAN on his team. Now he won’t have the best PG in the league to set him up. I can’t tell you how many time, over the years, I’ve seen Nash do 90% of the work and Amare simply takes a simple pass for a dunk. Steve was the pick and roll master. Amare has no one in NY (even if they were to get Parker) who can do what Nash has done for him. I’m not saying Amare is not a good player, but we’ve seen more than one player leave the Suns after career years only to revert back to their much lower mean. I am curious to see what Amare’s mean actually is (and how efficient he is) without #13 assisting him.

• bigtee34
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:33 pm

  So the knicks are talking to boozer now. any chance of a sign and trade boozer for tony parker.

• ChillFAN
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:37 pm

  Excellent posts, but remember when this website actually had good writing? I appreciate the inital post’s fandom-

  I too, was proud to see the Spurs knock off Dallas-But celebrating a lack of moves ignores critical realities.

  1. A Tony Parker-like injury happened to every contender (Lakers-Bynum, Denver-Karl, Suns-Robin Lopez, Blazers-Roy Brandon, Mavs-Terry/Butler, Yao, Chris Paul); “adding an All-Star” is universal.

  2. Don’t pee on my head and tell me its raining AND dont pretend the Spurs-as-is can cake walk to the WCF. The Spurs were the #7 seed, barely escaping #8, not ever close to #4 because they lost almost every season series, and were not close to playing credible defense against the Suns. Even if, the Suns are now weaker, as they stand now, however, the Thunder, Blazers, Nuggets, and Mavericks will be strong. Boozer may stay and the Jazz able to secure that 4 or 5 seed again. The Spurs are so much more inconsistent versus playoff-bound teams in the regular season than we were in 2009, when we were duking it out with Denver for the #2 spot and easily beating the Rocket- and Thunder-mid-level types.

  3. The Mavericks also believe they are “adding an All-Star PG” this year in Jason Kidd, because he has time to better learn their new players preferences. Know why the rest of the league laughs at them? Because he’s old. But guess which team plays older? I knew the Phoenix series was over when I saw a Seven game series in 14 days. As constructed, our Spurs consistently get tired in a back-to-back league. This aint their first rodeo road trip anymore, and it shows. And don’t think Tim Duncan can’t repeat those 4 for 23, eight point games he was mailing in at the end of the regular season. The Spurs desperately need youth, not a “maybe one more good year” veteran we have trusted in the past, ala Raja Bell.

  4. We need solutions, man, not to pretend we get better by standing still. Here are my hopes…

  Our frontline of McDyess, Duncan, Blair can be competitive with Splitter; if he can’t come, trade for the future. Listen closely: If Bonner is anything more than your garbage-time man, you ain’t ever going to the Finals.

  Trading TP is probably low yield. Keep TP (our most reliable player) unless a trade returns both an all-star AND a better point guard than Temple, who is not ready to start. George Hill is best off the ball, and he and Manu make letting Mason walk an easy decision.

  At wing, two words: athletic defender. Our defensive was atrocious all year, but this was painfully obvious v Phoenix. RJ just didn’t fit, which brings me to my final point.

  5. The Spurs desperately need a return of genius Pop. He did a horrible job getting the team to gel by playoff time. RMJ and Finley leaving will help, but should we commit even more years to RJ? Is Pop really excited that RJ can tear it up defensively against some practice cones at the practice facility? Better yet, is Pop going to binker and tinker with the lineups so erratically that we don’t ever develop a bench? Why give all this regular season time to Bogans and RMJ, at the expense of guys like Hairston and Ian? Phoenix beat us with significant minutes from 5 bench players, while we only had 3 dependable bench guys: Blair, Bonner and Hill.

  Getting Splitter will make things fun again for Pop, I really hope this works out.

• Tyler
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:49 pm

  At least the major hoopla will be over on Thursday.

  All this craziness surrounding free agency combined with the utter ridiculous contracts being given out (on what planet is Joe Johnson worth 6 yrs, $130M? Or Amir Johnson for 5 years, $34M?!?), I’ll be happy when we start the season.

  Also, am I the only one who thinks Splitter at 4 years, $23M feels like a bargain? I mean, that’s just above Darko money, and I’d bet the house he’ll be more productive than Darko, not to mention Amir Johnson. In Johnson’s case, there needs to be an investigation - clearly bribery was what motivated Colangelo to sign that deal, no way you could convince me otherwise.

• Rydog211
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:55 pm

  Hey guys.. new to the boards but always love the reads. Had to comment on everything though so apologies if some of this sounds redundant.

  The whole LBJ signing special is absolutely atrocius. I agree with Bushka that it actually tarnishes the league’s image that one guy can command this much attention. Yeah, he’s good but outside of the president, there’s really isn’t anyone else I can think of who can call up a major network and have the cahones to just schedule his own primetime TV shows.

  Hobs, Jim, Jesse.. this one is for you guys. Is it safe to assume that the reason we haven’t heard anything regarding a Tiago deal is because he’s quite possibly locked up in one of these trade scenarios you guys put together for Bosh? i.e. Tiago, McDyess and TP/RJ for Bosh and Jack. Seems only logical considering we haven’t heard any news of a signing yet the vibe from camp seems to be he (Tiago) is all but locked in.

  On those trades too, while I know Toronto needs a PG pretty badly, you think the reason RJ opted out might be to facilitate this trade happening a la sign and trade? The only reason I could see Toronto NOT being excited about Parker would be that if he were to go, the chances of him staying there would be pretty slim, so they might have better luck with RJ signed to something that you guys have mentioned (4/40?) before. Granted they’d have to keep Jack but as you guys have also noted before, RJ would be a much better fit into their system than he was in ours. My logic in thinking that would be that Toronto could secure a decent player in RJ and a valued prospect in Tiago for long term, rather than have a potential All-star PG rental for a year. Now I know the whole “Pop’s been working with RJ all summer” pretty much counters this whole arguement, but is it something both teams are possibly exploring?

  Another note… if the TP trade scenarios are still around and we think should get something for him while we can. (I’m largely against trading him btw unless something ridiculous comes along), can we still explore the options of the Nets with Devon Harris and maybe Favors? Going with that, I know the FO has repeatedly stated he (TP) isn’t going anywhere, and this might possibly be the best season he may have in a Spurs uniform, but I feel alot of it may just be smoke and mirrors to cover up a larger, multi-team trade….

  Oh.. a buddy of mine asked about this today and thought you guys might get a kick out of it. I know it’ll never happen but how ironically awesome would it be to see Shaq in silver and black? LOL! I know someone had posted randomly about it in one of these threads before but I kind of entertain the idea strictly on a “what if” basis. Can you imagine the drama that would ensue from a Spurs/Lakers West Finals? Hehe..

  Anyway, just some thoughts… I’m sure it all has more holes than swiss cheese but I figure it might be worth a look.

• ChillFAN
  July 6th, 2010 at 9:14 pm

  Actually the free agency period is fun-every fan can dream and every team has a shot at conference finals.

• td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

  Spot on, ChillFAN, spot on!

  Tyler, ATL and TOR are just desperate, poorly run organizations and it shows.The Channing Frye contract was equally laughable. We’ve seen it before (I’m looking at you, Orlando!) Toronto does this BS all the friggin time- I mean go after Hedon’t Turkoglu to add yet another soft 3-point shooter to that squad? Sure, the Hawks are schmucks, but obviously they believe they have no chance at a title and are content to make consistent brief playoff runs, even so they overpaid substantially.

• Half Man, Half Practice Squad
  July 6th, 2010 at 9:44 pm

  @Jim Henderson:

  “Actually, it would be to TP’s financial advantage to do a BIG sign & trade deal NOW to either NY, NJ, or Miami.”

  Why would the Spurs do that? Why would they give TP a raise so they are forced to take back more salary than a trade of his current deal? Why not just trade TP straight up now and let him work out an extension with his new team? For this reason, I have never heard of an “extension-and-trade” in the NBA. This is the Nuggets’ precise dilemma with Carmelo, BTW.

• Jim Henderson
  July 6th, 2010 at 10:36 pm

  td4life
  July 6th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

  “I don’t see why the Clips would trade Jordon, they are now short on Bigs, especially centers.”

  Did you read my entire post on the matter? We’re doing a sign & trade with Ian as well. Ian has good size, and would be a good fit on the Clippers.

  “The SF is a less important position.”

  That’s a silly complaint. SF is important, and all the Clippers have right now is a rookie.

  “So don’t be at all surprised if he turns out to be a bust rather than the difference maker you have the Spurs pegging him as.”

  He’s a ROLE player. I never pegged him as some BIG impact player. The fact is, the guy can block shots, rebounds, and plays tough “D” on the interior. Have you ever seen him play? How can you say that he could not help in the rotation as our FOURTH big?! Plus, he still has upside; he just turned 22!

  “I wouldn’t count on him to reach the heights of a Mikki Moore, Chris Wilcox, or Francisco Elson in his career, all guys who at least had some confidence about them. Hopefully I am wrong.”

  I think you’re wrong. In fact, I’d be surprised if the Clippers were even very open to the prospect of moving Jordan.

  “Good defensive bigs don’t come cheap, and NYC doesn’t appear focused on getting one, they want splashy names. Expect fewer wins, and fewer finals appearances, from Amare than Ewing delivered. Watch him sulk when they pile up more losses than he’s used to.
  Chris Paul is not available.”

  That paragraph is full of complete and utter speculation.

  Hobson13
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:14 pm

  For ALL players it takes two, three, four to tango. Amare’s not the only one. He’s never been asked to develop other aspects of his game, and has regrettably chosen the easy route, which has left him as a less versatile player as a result. This does make him more dependent on others (passers, defenders, rebounders) to enable him to deliver maximum impact than it does for many other “star” players. My only point is that if Amare has a couple of really good players around him, he can be a dominant and very potent force offensively. It doesn’t have to be Steve Nash, although he certainly has benefited from that relationship over the years. Because of the famous Nash/Amare pick & roll though, people tend to forget that Amare has very good power moves to the basket in one on one situations off the high & low block, and a very good jumper up to 20 feet as well. If the Knicks get him the right kind of help, NY will very likely be a much improved team over the next couple of years. And as I said, the center & PG positions are the most important for Amare to maximize his production.

  bigtee34
  July 6th, 2010 at 8:33 pm

  “So the knicks are talking to boozer now. any chance of a sign and trade boozer for tony parker.”

  I don’t think we’d really want Boozer that much. He’s undersized, and not a particularly good defender. Also he’s not a great fit, a bit redundant. I’d rather focus on developing our “Boozer-in-the-making”, DeJuan Blair. The main thing right now is to get Blair to develop & gain confidence in a mid-range jumper. At that point, he’ll look more and more like Boozer everyday.

• Jim Henderson
  July 6th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

  Half Man, Half Practice Squad
  July 6th, 2010 at 9:44 pm

  “For this reason, I have never heard of an “extension-and-trade” in the NBA.”

  Yeah, I’m not sure about an extension sign & trade on the Spurs part. My main point was that it would be to TP’s financial advantage if he was traded to a team NOW, and that as a part of the deal his new team was wanting to lock him up long-term with an attractive extension.

• td4life
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:45 am

  Jim Henderson-

  Speculation runs rampant in all these posts, certainly in yours. I call mine analysis, and stand by it.

  Chris Paul is not available. And if the Knicks are as interested in balance as you say, why haven’t they been setting up meetings with Haywood as you recommend, and the best available PGs and defenders, but instead are talking of adding, uh… Carlos Boozer?
  I propose these queries to you rhetorically, let’s just watch and see how wonderfully it all works out for D’Antoni and those giddy Knicks’ fans.

• roboSID
  July 7th, 2010 at 2:34 am

  BELIVE it or not Rey Allen is the best second tear availabel.did you see him d-up?Man ibet Pop was licking his chops watching that one…then shaq for 2 million you cant get much more then that.

• roboSID
  July 7th, 2010 at 2:38 am

  WHEN tony parker PLAYED like a kid in a candy store against ERUO ballerz it translated to the nba.@ other guys who look like that is Decolo an Ryan Richards.they look like kids in a candy store tearing it up compared to everyone else .

• TradeTP
  July 7th, 2010 at 5:15 am

  Jim Henderson and Die hard.

  please go to basketball reference to look at carreer playoff percentages. FISHER IS AHEAD OF TONY IN A LOT OF CATEGORIES. But keep saying I make up data.

• bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 5:57 am

  TradeTP,

  I haven’t looked at playoff stats. However, looking at career stats, TP has a much higher FG% and TS%, better rebound rate, assist rate and assist to turnover %. He is slightly behind in steals and blocks. Overall TPs numbers are much better.

  Jim Henderson,

  What I am saying is that individual shot blocks don’t necessarily have much impact when you look at the event in isolation. Shot blocking is correlated with good defense because a good shot blocker is having an effect on a lot more possessions than just the one he blocks. For example, every block a player makes may go straight back to the opposing player who then scores on the second attempt. So those actual blocks did nothing. However, the player likely contested a bunch of shots and had near blocks that reduced the opposing FG%

  “I just showed you the data with a post at a previous thread that the Spurs shot-blocking has tanked compared to ALL their best years, including their title years. What, are you suggesting it’s just a coincident indicator? Show me some compelling evidence that would support that contention.”

  This isn’t evidence so the burden of proof is still on you. Not that I even disagree with this or that this is what I was saying.

• Sam
  July 7th, 2010 at 7:16 am

  BREAKING NEWS: Chris Bosh and D-Wade have signed with the Miami Heat

• bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 7:18 am

  I should clarify what I said at the end. I believe shot blocking is correlated with defense and winning games, the question is why? My point is that I think it may be possible for someone to provide much of the same benefit whith out actually blocking as many shots.

  My point is not contradictory to yours about the Spurs shot blocking during their championship runs. Clearly one way to get the benefit associated with shot blocking is to have shot blockers. Honestly, I’m not even saying I’m 100% that my point about Splitter is true. I believe it because it makes sense to me, but I have no evidence to support it.

  Now, that being said, while I agree that shot blocking is correlated with defense and wins, your argument about the Spurs championship teams and shot blocking is not evidence. To many other variables and to small a data set to be meaningful.

  Of course, other people have done much more exhaustive work on this and so we know that yes, shot blocking does in fact make a player better ,although according Dave Berri rebounds and steals are more important than shot blocking. This is probably because steals and rebounds gain possession or change possesion, where as shot blocking does not.

• Tyler
  July 7th, 2010 at 7:43 am

  @ td4life

  No doubt. That’s what makes the Atlanta Hawks the Atlanta Hawks - a franchise defined by ineptitude at all levels, at least for the last decade….

  The great thing about the Spurs organization is that 2-3 years from now, (assuming we continue to manage our finances relatively conservatively as we have in the past) we’ll have the flexability to pick off assets from some of these teams a la OKC the past few years. The key for the Spurs, as it has always been, is financial flexability - never paint yourself into a corner, because if it doesn’t work out, you’re locked in with no maneuverability and little to no hope of getting better.

• Hobson13
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:35 am

  As Sam said, Dwade and Bosh look to be signing in Miami. Here are the big names that are off the board so far.

  Wade and Bosh - Miami
  Stoudamire - NY
  Dirk - re signed with Dallas
  Pierce - re signed with Boston
  Lebron - probably Cleveland, but we’ll know in 24 hours.

  Big names yet to decide:
  David Lee
  Carlos Boozer
  Ray Allen
  Richard Jefferson
  Mike Miller

  I think we will now begin to hear rumors surrounding this second and third tier of free agents once Lebron makes his announcement tomorrow night. Most of us knew that getting one of the super stars via trade was highly unlikely. However, now that they are off the board, I think we will begin to see what direction our front office goes. Do we resign Jefferson and keep Parker? Do we sign and trade Jefferson and keep Parker? Or do we sign and trade both? If I had my guess (and my way) I would say that we will sign and trade Jefferson in order to get 2-3 other younger pieces that the team needs and keep Parker. However, with that said, we’ve all heard the rumors surrounding Parker and NY. If the Knicks strike out on James, which I think they will, then get ready for even more Parker to NY rumors. I think the summer will finally start to heat up for us Spurs fans!!

• Tyler
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:49 am

  Touching on Hobson’s point, I would also look at Cleveland, Toronto, and other teams that are loosing their FA’s and moving into the rebuilding phase. There might be the opportunity to acquire a piece in a salary dump.

  In that case, McDyess’ partially guaranteed deal and Hairston and Gee’s deals (both are expiring contracts) might be valuable to teams wishing to slash salary.

• Tyler
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:09 am

  Might McDyess, Hairston and/or Gee be enough to get Mike Miller?

  McDyess $4.86M
  Hairston $.854M
  Gee $.762M

  TOTAL $6.476M

  S&T Mike Miller, 4years $26M and let RJ walk and sign a big to the veterans minimum…..We might be overpaying the last year or two for Miller, but that type of deal isn’t necessarily untradeable.

  I would consider an offseason in which we acquired Splitter and Mike Miller as a success, plus we’d save some luxury tax money. We still might not be on the Laker’s level, but I doubt any move this offseason gets us to that point. I think we’d be a top 4 team in the West with these moves.

• Tyler
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:11 am

  Clarification - M. Miller trade would be with the Wizards, who are in the early stages of rebuilding and looking to slash payroll.

• td4life
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:47 am

  I guess I’m hoping that LeBron joins those guys in Miami, hopefully leaving Dorrell Wright as an odd man out.

• idahospur
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:57 am

  If the Spurs can’t get a championship team, may there be a team put together that will beat the Lakers.

• TradeTP
  July 7th, 2010 at 10:17 am

  Here it is in the playoffs:

  Fisher: TS% 55 EFG%50 A%14 STL%2 TOV%11

  Parker: TS% 51 EFG%48 A%26 STL%1 TOV%13

  Again Tony kills him in Scoring/APG but Fisher shoots a higher percent and is better in O rating D rating and all win shares. In addition Fisher has played about 700 more playoff minutes and has almost half of the TOs that Parker has.

  The original Point “FISHER IS A BETTER ALL AROUND PLAYER” “PARKER IS A BETTER SCORER”

  We need an all around player in our system, or two. Parker wont lead us to shit with no stellar big man and he will want a lot of cheese. Scoring 40ppg in a series and losing it doesnt mean SQUAT.. We need physical, aggressive players who might be good at a lot of things but excellent at none thats our system.

• rj
  July 7th, 2010 at 10:30 am

  LeBron needs to man up and stay in cleveland. it would be cowardly to joing Bosh and Wade. the cavs can certainly improve their roster aside from resiging lebron. they aren’t that far away from winning the east. hopefully, they can lure carlos boozer back to cleveland

  c’mon bron-bron, if you want a ring, go f*****’ get it

• bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 10:52 am

  Trade TP,

  Parker is not just a better scorer, but far better in assists and assists/turnover.

  Also, Parker had a bad year last year due to injury and Fisher is about to turn 36. Why don’t you go look at the numbers for the 3 or 4 years prior to this one. Parker’s numbers are better than Fishers and considering their relative ages, this discrepancy is likely to grow. So no, Parker is better than Fisher.

  Parker has proved repeatedly he fits our system just fine. Repeated success at the highest level works for me. Replacing him with a 36 year old PG is a terrible idea.

• Tobias
  July 7th, 2010 at 10:53 am

  Just a couple of news going around.
  http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/wade_defection_afcdDaAa3U6jVREGqdhhPK/1
  Just go down a little bit to read the Spurs related bit.

  And

  http://www.noticiasdealava.com/2010/07/07/baskonia/splitter-apremia-a-los-spurs-para-que-le-trasladen-una-oferta

  And for those who can not read Spanish it says that Tiago is urging the SAS to put an offer on the table. The reason for this urging is that the period for opting out from his current contract with Caja Laboral expires on July 15Th.

  Let’s hope that if the first new is true the second article won’t become a matter of concern.

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

  “Chris Paul is not available.”

  So all the rumors in the past few weeks did not have even a grain of truth in them. Right? And besides, I was merely using Paul as an example; that Amare can be a dominant force with a talented point guard. It doesn’t have to be Paul.

  “…..why haven’t they been setting up meetings with Haywood as you recommend….”

  From what I’ve heard, they have been in discussions with Haywood, along with a handful of other teams. Look, I don’t KNOW what NY’s going to do. I’m not being a booster to their management team. I do know that signing Amare is not necessarily a poor first step; it could payoff in spades. All I know is that Amare would be a BIG handful on a team that had a play-maker at the point, and a defender in the middle. If NY’s management team doesn’t see that, and doesn’t do everything in their power to surround Amare with the “right” players, that’s on their management, but it doesn’t take anything away from the opportunity that signing Amare now presents them with.

  TradeTP
  July 7th, 2010 at 5:15 am

  “please go to basketball reference to look at carreer playoff percentages. FISHER IS AHEAD OF TONY IN A LOT OF CATEGORIES. But keep saying I make up data.”

  BUT YOU NEVER PRESENTED ANY DATA COMPARING FISHER & PARKER ON CAREER PLAYOFF NUMBERS!

  What I did, was point out the inaccuracies in some of your data that you presented. And I stick by that. So, unless you can refute it, just admit it, and quit changing the subject, or at least actually present NEW data, that’s accurate.

  bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 5:57 am

  “Shot blocking is correlated with good defense because a good shot blocker is having an effect on a lot more possessions than just the one he blocks.”

  I’m NOT saying I want a shot-blocker at the expense of having a fundamentally sound defender. We must have both, because ultimately if a shot goes up with good defense it has a meaningful chance of going in. If a shot goes up and is blocked, it has NO chance of going in. Plus, just the intimidating factor alone, the altering of shots, etc., that shot-blockers bring is a big defensive “bonus” for a team wishing to compete at the championship level. Now, since I feel like I’m rehashing this over and over, I’ll repeat this point again: I do not want a shot-blocker that does not also provide a more than adequate level of sound, fundamental, position defense as well. Both Anthony & Amundson (and D. Jordan) offer this.

  “This isn’t evidence so the burden of proof is still on you.”

  Well, I’m not going to run a scientific study for you. The fact is, I provided enough data to form a valid hypothesis that the Spurs are at their best when their minutes per blocks are under 21. Currently they’re at 33.

  “My point is that I think it may be possible for someone to provide much of the same benefit with out actually blocking as many shots.”

  “Maybe”, but HIGHLY unlikely in my view.

  “This is probably because steals and rebounds gain possession or change possesion, where as shot blocking does not.”

  Overall, in my view, rebounds are the most important. That’s why Blair needs more minutes, and the “shot-blocker” needs less minutes (especially if he’s not a good rebounder). For me, while steals are important, “forcing turnovers” with aggressive “D” is the key, whether it’s classified as a “steal” or not. Also, you’re wrong: shot-blocking often (not always) does result in a change of possession.

  Tyler
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:09 am

  “Might McDyess, Hairston and/or Gee be enough to get Mike Miller?

  McDyess $4.86M
  Hairston $.854M
  Gee $.762M

  TOTAL $6.476M

  S&T Mike Miller, 4years $26M and let RJ walk and sign a big to the veterans minimum….”

  That sounds okay. I think the Wiz might prefer Mahinmi instead of Hairston & Gee. I think that would work.

  Also, remember, we have the LLE to offer on another big (around 2 million). Joel Anthony or Lou Amundson might work. And I would try to at least get a 5th big or another shooter with a sign & trade for RJ.

  I proposed the other day to send RJ & Ian to the Clippers for D. Jordan & a 5 million dollar trade exception. The Clippers need a starting SF, and Ian would fit well in the Clips up-tempo offensive oriented system. Jordan fits our size & defensive needs on the front line, and we should be able to get a solid SF with the trade exception (e.g., Dorell Wright).

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

  TradeTP
  July 7th, 2010 at 10:17 am

  “Career Playoffs………

  The original Point “FISHER IS A BETTER ALL AROUND PLAYER” “PARKER IS A BETTER SCORER””

  “Scoring 40ppg in a series and losing it doesnt mean SQUAT.. ”

  This has NOTHING to do with Parker. Parker has won three titles, and in the last one he averaged 24.5 ppg., was voted the series MVP.

  CAREER PLAYOFFS:

  ………….PER ..FG%…3Pt..Apg..Ppg..A/TO..Rpg

  Fisher: 12.3…42.6…40.1..2.6….8.9…..2.5…..2.4

  Parker: 16.5…46.1…30.0..4.9…18.7….1.8…..3.2

  …………..eFG …..ORtg…..DRtg…..WS/48

  Fisher: .506……113 ……..107…….. (.107)

  Parker: .478……102……..108……..(.078)

  Parker kills Fisher in ppg. & apg., and beats him handily in PER, FG%, rpg., and also beats him in DRtg.

  Fisher kills Parker in 3-point percentage, and beats him in handily in A/TO, and ORtg., and also beats him in eFG & WS48.

  Nobody is arguing that Fisher is not a “game” playoff performer, but any way one fairly looks at the data, he does not outperform Parker. Fisher’s main value is his “timely” three-pointers, and his carefulness & smart play with the ball. The fact is, Fisher is the prototypical “complimentary” playoff performer, but he cannot be a “driving force” that leads his team to a playoff series win. Fisher has never done anything close to what Parker did in the 2007 NBA Finals. Case closed!

• td4life
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

  If we can’t land Childress or Wright, I predict that Richard Jefferson will be a Spur for the foreseeable future. I don’t think Peitrus is available. This probably leaves RJ as the best available option for us. Of course, I don’t like his skill set on our team, or his lack of hustle and grit, but he should offer decent scoring support (hopefully he’ll be a bit more assertive offensively!). I think our ceiling is far below what it ought to be with him as a key player for us, so I would rather see him shipped out for promising young players and improved depth at other areas of need. But I don’t see it happening. Apparently we are looking to back him up with Matt Barnes, who is probably an upgrade over Bogans.
  I am still hopeful we can add Anthony Morrow, who is sure to be an upgrade over RMj.

  With Bosh off the table, we should hear about Splitter within a week at the most. After that, continued improvement from Hill and Blair will be the main thing worth watching next year, and I will be thrilled if Anderson proves to be as good in his rookie season as those guys were. I really hope Bonner is mainly giving us value in practice sessions, and get very little game time, also hope to see RJ get no time at PF.

  We will be better than last season, but I think a healthy Portland squad may be the only team with a chance to beat the Lakers and get out of the West.

• DNITCH
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

  Of course Fisher has a lower turnover rate, he hardly ever runs the offense. Its always Kobe running the Triangle offense.

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

  td4life
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

  I’m perplexed as to why you now appear so resigned to the fact that we’re not likely to make any significant moves during this off-season? WHY do you think that we’re likely to resign RJ? The FA season is really just starting as of tomorrow night after James makes a decision. That’s when you’re going to see all the mid-tier and lower free agents/teams begin to make some decisions. It’s way too early to suggest that we’re not likely to make any significant moves, which a sign & trade of RJ would qualify as. Not to mention that McDyess could still be in play. Even with Parker, there’s definitely still a chance that he gets traded (low probability, but still, not non-existent by any stretch).

  I wouldn’t give up yet. We still have a chance to make some moves that could make us into serious contenders in the West. It’s too early to assume that we’ll probably come out of this with a team that’s still likely to exit the playoffs in the early rounds.

• bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

  Jim,

  “I’m NOT saying I want a shot-blocker at the expense of having a fundamentally sound defender. ”

  I’m not saying you did. Not my point at all.

  “My point is that I think it may be possible for someone to provide much of the same benefit with out actually blocking as many shots.”

  This was my point. That’s why I said “my point”

  ““Maybe”, but HIGHLY unlikely in my view.”

  Well, okay. It’s just my opinion. Like I said, I have no hard evidence to back it up.

  “For me, while steals are important, “forcing turnovers” with aggressive “D” is the key, whether it’s classified as a “steal” or not. ”

  This seems very similar to my argument about shot blocking, which you seem to disagree with but that’s okay. Personally, I tend to agree with your statement, and players that contribute to turning the other team over probably also tend to generate more steals. Just like shot blocking and altering shots! Yay!

  “Also, you’re wrong: shot-blocking often (not always) does result in a change of possession.”

  Well, I meant the box score stat block doesn’t necessarily mean change of possesion, just means the shot was blocked. I tend to agree with people that TD’s blocked shots are more valuable because he keeps the ball in play allowing us to regain possession than the “swatter” type shot blockers that basically guarantee that their team will not get the ball. I bet if everyone blocked like TD blocks we’d be more highly correlated with wins.

  “Well, I’m not going to run a scientific study for you. The fact is, I provided enough data to form a valid hypothesis that the Spurs are at their best when their minutes per blocks are under 21.”

  Which is funny because earlier you said

  “I just showed you the data with a post at a previous thread that the Spurs shot-blocking has tanked compared to ALL their best years, including their title years. What, are you suggesting it’s just a coincident indicator? Show me some compelling evidence that would support that contention.”

  So you insist that I disprove your hypothesis or accept it but you can’t be bothered to do any work on it? Hmm, this seems wrong somehow. Are you familiar with the scientific method?

  BTW, I agree with your hypothesis and lucky for you work has already been done to support it. I’m just saying what you provided wasn’t evidence and asking my to accept or disprove is well, a terrible way to make an argument.

• Hobson13
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

  Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
  “The FA season is really just starting as of tomorrow night after James makes a decision. That’s when you’re going to see all the mid-tier and lower free agents/teams begin to make some decisions.”

  You’re right. In fact, Boozer now appears to be heading to Chicago so we can now take him off of the board. The big guys are signing fast which means RJ’s number is going to come up pretty soon. I really hope we get a nice sign and trade for RJ. An RJ trade has the best chance of revamping our roster since we would be giving up so little production and may be getting several good pieces in return. I’ve got my fingers crossed the Clippers and NY are going to get a bit desperate and over reach for him.

• mvg03
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

  We need another SF that can score. I wonder if the Spurs are looking @ Travis Outlaw. Maybe not your prototypical Spur, but the man can flat out score! Hes 25, 6’9 with a huge wingspan. Just saying

• mvg03
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

  BTW…are we really comparing fisher n TP?!!!

• TradeTP
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

  Jim Henderson- Fisher is a better shooter and defender than parker. He is also less of a liability turning over the ball and has won more rings.

  Parker is a beast when it comes to scoring.

  Please Explain D Rating…

  The only PERFORMANCE BASED concept that Parker beats fisher in is SCORING and attacking the rim. Why cant you understand that?

  So Fisher is a better ball handler, defender and shooter, won more rings and had more clutch shots than parker. But parker outperforms him because he was a one time finals MVP?

  This right here is why people think Bonner is an NBA player. SCORING doesnt mean as much as a majority of you guys think. Why is Manu better than Parker if his scoring ppg is less than Tony’s?

  The point is Derek fisher is not a GREAT scorer, yet he wins ball games because he does everything else good. He’s smart, he hustles, he knows how to win. Parker scores, cries, breaks down in the 4th…etc.

• philip fletcher
  July 7th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

  Parker did not break down and cry in the 2007 nba finals, no he was the mvp. Keep in mind when you compare him with Fisher that Fisher had Shaq and kobe, Gasol and Kobe, He had it easy. Parker is to Duncan, what Gasol is to Kobe, Kobe was to shaq, that is the 2nd option, Yes Tony Parker was seeing double coverage a lot of the time. Fisher didn’t hardly have any coverage at all, all he had to do was knock down the open shot. You want to make a comparison. Let me ask you who does the league consider one of the elite point guards, single coverage Fisher or double coverage Parker?

• junierizzle
  July 7th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

  I just joined this but Fisher better than TP.

  GET REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Fisher is good as long as he’s WIDE OPEN. I’ll give him credit though, he still hits shots.

  And it’s funny how DFISH only plays “good D” in STAPLES where hacking is allowed.

• VP of Common Sense
  July 7th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

  This site could really use a new article…

• Hobson13
  July 7th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

  VP of Common Sense
  July 7th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

  “This site could really use a new article…”

  Agreed. We could also use another topic of conversation besides whether a broken down 36 year old never-has-been is better than a top 8 PG. This is ridiculous, guys.

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

  bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

  “So you insist that I disprove your hypothesis or accept it but you can’t be bothered to do any work on it?”

  No, I don’t “insist” anything, but you’ve given every indication that you’re not even open to considering, and further exploring the data that I provided that leads to a perfectly legitimate hypothesis: that sufficient shot-blocking is a critical factor in winning a championship for the Spurs. Instead, you just want to say things like, I don’t think we really need shot-blocking (sound defense is sufficient), without providing ANY data, not even data that would at least lead one to consider engaging in hypothesis-testing on the “unimportance of shot-blocking” in the Spurs winning an NBA championship.

  “BTW, I agree with your hypothesis and lucky for you work has already been done to support it.”

  Oh, so you know of studies that support my hypothesis, but you’re arguing against it without supplying ANY data? What is this, merely a game of devils advocate for you?

  Look, nobody on this blog is going to “prove” anything. That said, if one at least makes the effort to provide data that at appears to back-up one’s point, that is a lot more than 95% of the comments do on this blog. And that is what I do on a regular basis.

  “I’m just saying what you provided wasn’t evidence and asking my to accept or disprove is well, a terrible way to make an argument.”

  You refer to “evidence” as if we’re forensic examiners on this blog. I’m not asking you to “fully accept” anything I say. By the same token, it would be nice that when someone goes through the trouble to provide enough data to at least come up with a legitimate hypothesis, a reader would at least indicate that he/she may be right, but that you of course haven’t yet “proven” your case. Instead, all I hear are unsubstantiated opinions, not backed up by any data, that “somehow” shot-blockers” just might not be important to the Spurs hopes of winning a championship. SURE, shot-blocking “might” not be important to the Spurs winning a championship. But is it likely to be unimportant? Not really, and I’ve provided data that gives reason to actually test a hypothesis that “shot-blocking” at a certain level per minute is an important factor highly correlated with the Spurs winning a championship, during the era of Pop and his system/philosophy.

  You’re basic argument was that “shot-blocking” may very well not be necessary, but that some level of “shot-contesting” is just as likely to be sufficient in terms of the defense the Spurs need to win a championship. That’s been your basic case in this ongoing discussion, and I can quote you on it, if necessary. And, you’ve repeatedly made this argument without data, which suggests that the argument is not even close to being teastable.

  The bottom-line is, you’re contention is this:

  “My point is that I think it may be possible for someone to provide much of the same benefit with out actually blocking as many shots.”

  And, you provide NO “evidence” for this assertion.

  My contention is this:

  The Spurs as a team have a base threshold that they need to meet in terms of minutes played per blocked shot in order to greatly increase their chances at winning a championship.

  And I’ve provided enough data to form a preliminary hypothesis for testing such an assertion, and have made the case that it is reasonable to suspect that my assertion could be confirmed through scientific study.

  Now, out of those two points, who’s making the “terrible” argument?

• Phife
  July 7th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

  TradeTP, I’m sure you get this a lot..but why do you come off as an ornery, self-appointed, conflict-seeker in every post? You make viable arguments at times, no doubt. Derek Fisher being a better playoff performer than Parker in not a viable argument. If they were the same age (Parker being almost 40), I could see your point. They aren’t, and TP has hit enough jumpers just inside the three-point line in crunch time to earn his spot as one of the best PG’s in the 2000′s. He’s only 28 and has ATLEAST 1 elite year left in him. Even last year, Parker closed out Dallas even though he came off the bench. Fisher has benefited greatly from circumstance. He’s played with some of this era’s best all-stars. He’s played with/is some of this era’s best role-player’s. Parker was a consistent centerpiece, while not the biggest part of the Spurs machine he got us out of a lot of trouble over the years.

• bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

  Jim,

  Okay, let’s rehash what happened. I said I thought it was possible that someone could provide a lot of the benefit of a shot blocker without actually blocking a lot of shots. Not that this happened often, or that it means shot blocking isn’t correlated with winning or any of the other things you seem to think I said.

  You responded with.

  “I just showed you the data with a post at a previous thread that the Spurs shot-blocking has tanked compared to ALL their best years, including their title years. What, are you suggesting it’s just a coincident indicator? Show me some compelling evidence that would support that contention.”

  So you asked me to disprove your non evidence. You basically attributed something to me that I never said (because I do believe in a link between shot blocking and winning) and provided really poor proof for your argument of why I was wrong. I don’t agree that providing bad data and then demanding I disprove it is a good way to make an argument, even in a blog setting.

  Now I admit that I have no data to back up my claim, which I personally think is better than bad data. You seem to take exception to this and yet make a similar argument regarding aggressive D and steals and of course provide no data just like I did not.

  I feel that it’s okay to have an opinion, explain your reasons for it like I did, and people can agree or disagree with it and that’s fine. You can make an intelligent argument about steals vs aggressive D without being able to prove it with data. However, if you do provide data you better believe I’m going to say something if it’s not actually proof. You’re the one who referenced you’re previous post like it was worth anything.

• Bushka
  July 7th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

  Jim wtf are you actually involved in a serious argument about Derek Fisher Vs Tony Parker.

  In other news WTF is going on….Shaq to the spurs…this must be some alternate reality.

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

  bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

  The fact is, this is what you said:

  bduran
  July 6th, 2010 at 5:49 am

  (I said the following):

  “We need size, youth, AND shot-blocking on our front line.”

  (And you responded with this):

  “You know we don’t really need shot blocking.”

  (And then I responded with this):

  “What, are you suggesting it’s just a coincident indicator (the data that I provided)? Show me some compelling evidence that would support that contention.”

  (And now you’re saying this):

  “So you asked me to disprove your non evidence. You basically attributed something to me that I never said ”

  I’m not asking you to “disprove” my hypothesis. I’m asking you to at least take a stab at making my “hypothesis” weaker, or perhaps, demonstrating that it’s not even worth testing. And, I didn’t attribute something to you that you never said. The above are direct quotes. I am simply asking you to at least provide a “counter-hypothesis” (buffeted by DATA), or supply data counter to my hypothesis, if you’re going to assert that my hypothesis is just as likely to be incorrect, and that your following counter-assertions ………

  “You know we don’t really need shot blocking.”

  “My point is that I think it may be possible for someone to provide much of the same benefit with out actually blocking as many shots.”

  …….. may also in fact be true.

  “Now I admit that I have no data to back up my claim, which I personally think is better than bad data.”

  MY DATA IS NOT BAD!!! Granted, it doesn’t “prove” anything. However, it is sufficient to form a preliminary hypothesis for testing, with reasonable hopes that a rigorous scientific study will confirm the prediction. YES, THAT DATA IS MUCH BETTER THAN HAVING NO DATA AT ALL. Let’s get real here!

  “You seem to take exception to this and yet make a similar argument regarding aggressive D and steals and of course provide no data just like I did not.”

  Look, I’m not saying one should provide data for EVERY FREAKING COMMENT one makes on this blog. Logic, hopefully; data, not always.

  “However, if you do provide data you better believe I’m going to say something if it’s not actually proof. You’re the one who referenced you’re previous post like it was worth anything.”

  I do not use data as PROOF of anything (other than simple, and strictly factual data). Just because data presented does not PROVE one’s point DOES NOT MEAN that the data is not “worth anything”. So, in the future, if you’re going to review my assertions in posts that include data, please do not respond if you’re going to ask me to PROVE my case, or even operate off the erroneous assumption that I’m trying to PROVE my case. Please view the posts as either “making a decent case” or not “making a decent case”. Otherwise, please don’t bother commenting. It’s a waste of time.

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

  Bushka
  July 7th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

  Jim wtf are you actually involved in a serious argument about Derek Fisher Vs Tony Parker.

  Yeah, it is silly. I guess I just like getting on TradeTp’s case now and then!

• doggydogworld
  July 7th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

  “This site could really use a new article…”

  Yes, so we can have 10 fresh, relevant comments before devolving back into the same endless and repetitive arguments over trades which will never happen.

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

  Salary cap is set higher than anticipated: 58.04 million (geez, I’m glad they got that .04 million in there!):

  http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ai98cLcKnJrHmYIdknQ6JE68vLYF?slug=ap-salarycap

  doggydogworld
  July 7th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

  “…… the same endless and repetitive arguments over trades which will never happen.”

  Sorry, but you, or anyone else on this blog, does not know definitively whether any trade proposed will or will “never happen”. If you prefer not to entertain reasonable trade proposals that could make our team competitive for a title, feel free to ignore them.

• bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

  ““You know we don’t really need shot blocking.””

  I should have phrased this differently.

  “MY DATA IS NOT BAD!!!”

  okay true, poor word choice on my part.

  “However, it is sufficient to form a preliminary hypothesis for testing, with reasonable hopes that a rigorous scientific study will confirm the prediction.”

  Okay, sure.

  “YES, THAT DATA IS MUCH BETTER THAN HAVING NO DATA AT ALL. Let’s get real here!”

  I don’t agree with this. I think you were right in saying it may lead down the right path, but as far as evidence for a discussion about the value of shot blocking, I don’t think it is much better than nothing. Usually when you form a hypothesis, you don’t start acting like it’s true until you have some significant evidence.

  “Show me some compelling evidence that would support that contention.”

  See, you then asked for “compelling” evidence even though you feel free to use evidence that is less than compelling. You telling me to find compelling evidence to contradict what you provided, to me, seemed to imply that you found your evidence compelling, rather than merely sufficient to form a hypothesis worth testing.

  Anyway, this is the last I’m going to say about this silly argument that came up from something we sort of agree on. Yes I know I started it and that it’s my silly argument.

• Tyler
  July 7th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

  If we traded Parker straight up for Derek Fisher (or even Derek Fisher in his prime), would we be a better team next year? I cringe at the thought….

  I can’t believe I just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading through those posts. In fact, I think I’m a little dumber now…..

• Sam
  July 7th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

  can we please stop comparing derek fisher to tony parker?? Its redicilous of course by reading his name “tradetp” u can understand why he would make such stupid comments about derek fisher being better than tp.

  Is there anyway to like ban him from commenting? jeez i follow 48moh very closely and every discussion he brings up turns into a total disaster.

• Tyler
  July 7th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

  @ Sam

  If only we had a disclaimer next to certain posts that read:

  “Stupid argument, please skip.”

  That’d be nice….

• zainn
  July 7th, 2010 at 6:26 pm

  so apparently shaq has interest in the spurs… could he play center next to duncan and splitter blair off the bench? or would that make splitter not want to come to the nba?

• junierizzle
  July 7th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

  Yes, post a new article already.

• DNITCH
  July 7th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

  Well apparently San Antonio is Shaq’s preference.

  http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/07/source-shaq-prefers-spurs-wants-to-play-two-more-seasons/

• Ian
  July 7th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

  @doggydogworld - lol true that but you get something like Derek Fisher > Tony Parker comments from time to time. Hilarious stuff really.

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

  bduran
  July 7th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

  “…… as far as evidence for a discussion about the value of shot blocking, I don’t think it is much better than nothing.”

  The basic questions the hypothesis would look to answer are things like: what is the correlation between the Spurs winning championships, and the Spurs having a relatively low number of minutes per shot block (in other words, a relatively high rate of shot-blocks per game). Thus, in a previous post, I provided data on the Spurs top 3-4 shot blockers during the 4 championship years, and as a comparison, the top 3-4 shot blockers for this year, 2010. The data revealed that the minutes per shot-block was less than half the rate (> than twice the shot-blocks per minute) during 3 of the 4 championship seasons as it was for this past season. For the other title year, the minutes per shot-block rate was about 45% less than it was for this season (about 55% more shot blocks per minute).

  Now, I’m sorry, but that’s at the very least, an interesting piece of data, and when I take into account my observations of the team (and the NBA) over the preceding decades, it leads me to reasonably conclude that I may very well be onto something here. At the very least, this line of inquiry was worth pursuing at that point, and working to fine-tune the data into a testable hypothesis. Nobody is going to even bother testing a hypothesis unless they think their “prediction” is more than likely going to be confirmed. It certainly may not be, but there should be a decent chance. Thus, to suggest that the preliminary data that I presented to support my argument is barely worth more than NO data at all, is preposterous, in my opinion.

  “Usually when you form a hypothesis, you don’t start acting like it’s true until you have some significant evidence.”

  Well, it depends on what you mean by “significant evidence”. The data I generally present on this blog is about as close as one is going to get to “successfully arguing a case” in this forum. That does not mean trying to “prove” a case, but it simply represents an initial foray toward providing a preponderance of evidence to support a case. Moreover, my posts are also an effort to give others the encouragement to either support my contention by providing additional documentation, or countering my supposition by presenting data that counters my argument. But frankly, this blog is FAR from a scientific laboratory, and to treat it as such is absurd.

  And I repeat: I NEVER INTEND TO “PROVE” MY CASE in my posts: just “win” the argument, for fun (using data & logic).

  “See, you then asked for “compelling” evidence even though you feel free to use evidence that is less than compelling.”

  My only point was, that if you’re going to challenge my “less than compelling evidence”, at least make an effort to present evidence that is “more compelling than mine” to either refute my argument, or offer an alternative.

  “Anyway, this is the last I’m going to say about this silly argument that came up from something we sort of agree on. Yes I know I started it and that it’s my silly argument.”

  Fine. I’m getting used to your “devil’s advocate” approach that you tend to use at times. It’s just that sometimes you wear me out, and cause a bit of frustration. I know I can be assertive in my views, but rest assured, I’m not trying to “prove” anything, certainly not by using the “scientific” connotation of the word.

• Bushka
  July 7th, 2010 at 7:34 pm

  I laughed out loud when i read Tim @ fanhouse regarding shaq.

  Apparently he would come to the Spurs and prefer for the mid level x 2 years….

  I bet the Spurs reached out to him with the BAE or some such maybe the LLE and he is trying to leverage Atlanta up.

  No way we give up MLE up for Shaq. Especially not with Splitter on the Horizon.

• lvmainman
  July 7th, 2010 at 7:44 pm

  Why all these stupid rumors like Shaq becoming a Spur? The Spurs have no money. Shaq is wanting the MLE. Why report an impossibility?

  The Warriors are being complete idiots if the rumor is true. David Lee for Randolph, Turiaf, and Azubuike/Radmanovic? Are they crazy? 3 decent players for 1 decent player? Huh?

  The Spurs with 6 expiring contracts last year can’t trade for any of the Warriors players given away in a fire sale?? No Stephen Jackson or Corey Maggette??

  The Spurs will not add any player of significance due to the Jefferson fiasco. The front office/Holt have become too passive to improve the team.

• TradeTP
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:06 pm

  Tyler, Sam here:

  I guess you have to discredit anything Fisher does better than Parker. Especially when it counts. The point never was trade Parker for Fisher. The point has been Fisher has more all around game than Parker. So much so that hes ran the show for 5 rings. Parker could never do that because he isnt willing to play defense or DEFER to his teammates. Fisher is the traditional PG, which goes back to the MAIN IDEA. Parker is a scoring PG, much like Iverson or Gilbert see how many rings those guys have.

  When TD was legit and could control the middle and dominate we could use a score only PG. Now, we need someone that stops, can hit FTs or other big shots that seal the deal, not turn the ball over, not just shoots layups. We have blown leads and went through MELTDOWNS the past 3-4 years.

  The main point is as follows: Tony Parker has to score in the mid 20s for him to have a chance to be effective (which means WE WIN). Fisher can be effective scoring 5pts and dishing out 4 assists because he wont do stupid shit, let a layup drill get run on him, miss fts, or care who gets the glory.

  To work in this system you have to be a well rounded player. Fisher is more rounded. Its like RJ. No one really was pissed at the fact that he couldnt shoot or had no flow on offense. Everyone was angry about the fact that he sucked on offense AND he couldnt stop on defense or crash the boards every game. Just because Parker scores 20 doesnt mean he gets a pass. Much like Bonner.

  Parker and McDoosh to DEN for Anderson, Afflalo, Billups

  Parker Doosh to MEM for ZRandolph OJ MAY

• TradeTP
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:09 pm

  Biedrins Azubuike Turiaf

  for

  Parker McDoosh

• Bushka
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:12 pm

  Well it’s the warriors.

  They tend to draft great young athletes(nearly always at the same position that they already have someone young and athletic in) laden with potential then give them to Don Nelson.

  They may as well give them away to someone that wants them.

• Bushka
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:22 pm

  Tradetp seriously you sound like a child.

  You call McDyess McDoosh like it’s some kind of hilarious pun that only you and the other 5th graders understand.

  Fisher is a supplementary / complementary player.

  Parker is someone who actually has the burden placed upon him.

  It’s like comparing Tim & Tyson Chandler.

  Chandler might be effective stat wise on offence but you don’t run it through him because he doesn’t have the aptitude.

  Neither does Fisher. Steve Kerr, John Paxson, et al.

  They are guys who hit shots and hustle they don’t break down zones lead the break and fake people out of their boots.

  They are limited players, role players. They are a hell of a lot easier to find than Tony Parkers.

  It’s one of the reasons Parker is mentioned constantly as a trade target for these guys with cap space and rosters to fill. It’s also one of the reasons that Fisher has never exactly been priority one for anybody.

• andy
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:34 pm

  i’ll pick up the shotblocking or no argument.

  i’ve maintained basically the same premise as bduran, saying that length and hustle (positional d) is paramount, not shotblocking, which is icing on the cake.

  the hypothesis is basically unprovable at our level of statistical analysis, but observationally, i would support my contention with this year’s finals. neither team was a great shotblocking team, placing middle of the pack for the season (let’s face it, while pau and perkins are top 10 shotblockers, only perkins could be called an intimidator). both however, had excellent length in spades, and people who hustled and knew where to be. there are great teams out there that don’t have great shotblocking and there are great shotblocking teams that are just not that good. i don’t want players that will go for the block but get out of position and give up a play.

  i still assert that the first priority is a big man who knows how to body up and play p&r d, not shotblock. you can win a championship without elite shotblocking. would i like to get a big man who does both? sure, but given the market and how salaries are falling out, i’d opt for the former over the latter.

  this is one reason i don’t approve of signing shaq, and i’m hoping splitter is the missing cog.

• andy
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:43 pm

  also, the first and last thing i’ll say about fish vs. parker:

  “The point has been Fisher has more all around game than Parker. So much so that hes ran the show for 5 rings.”

  along with the whole argument, i find it laughable that anyone would even think the show in l.a. was run through fisher, who i actually like as a person.

• Sam
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:49 pm

  @ Tyler “a stupid argument please skip disclaimer would be nice.”
  haha agreed

• Hobson13
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

  lvmainman
  July 7th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
  “The Warriors are being complete idiots if the rumor is true. David Lee for Randolph, Turiaf, and Azubuike/Radmanovic? Are they crazy? 3 decent players for 1 decent player? Huh?”

  Yeah, David Lee is not worth those 3 decent players, but that’s Don Nelson for you. Lee would, however, fit in real nicely with a team that doesn’t play defense and runs and guns. He’s been familiar with that scheme for years. As for Nelson and their FO, they can draft great talent, but can’t develop anything. Hell, if the Warriors and Knicks are going to do that, why don’t they do a 3 way with the Spurs?

  Spurs get: Randolph, Turiaf, and Azubuike
  Knicks get: Tony Parker
  Warriors get: David Lee

  Spurs address their SF needs and get another big to help Duncan/Splitter/Blair. You know the Knicks will be wanting to jump Parker’s bones when they strike out on Lebron and apparently the Warriors will give up young talent pretty easily. I believe that Randolph can actually play several positions with SF being one of them. If that’s the case, he wouldn’t get in Blairs way. I wouldn’t mind getting Morrow instead of Randolph, but I think the W’s want to keep him. Besides, Azubuike can provide decent 3pt shooting along with Manu, Anderson (maybe), and Hill. I think we will have enough 3pt firepower with those 3-4. (I’m not saying I’m against getting an ace like Mike Miller or Morrow though)

  I know I am rehashing a trade suggested several weeks ago, but this actually makes sense if the Warriors are really willing to give up these guys…

  P.S. Out of curiosity, where do you cats think Lebron might go. I think its 50/50 between Miami and Cleveland. Just my opinion though…

• Nadeem
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:09 pm

  Tim, Graydon, Andrew, Jesse….SOS!!!

  We need a new article.

• ChillFAN
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:20 pm

  I say LeBron sacrifices money and goes to Heat 60% v Cavs 40%

  Its curious that LeBron will announce his decision so quickly, almost as if the rest of the time is celebrating his time with the Cavs and explaining why he is leaving.

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:55 pm

  lvmainman
  July 7th, 2010 at 7:44 pm

  “The Warriors are being complete idiots if the rumor is true. David Lee for Randolph, Turiaf, and Azubuike/Radmanovic? Are they crazy? 3 decent players for 1 decent player? Huh?”

  If this wasn’t the Warriors, I’d say this rumor had a snowball’s chance in hell of materializing. I would never trade Randolph, Azubuike, & Turiaf for David Lee. The Knicks would be jumping for joy if this deal came through.

  andy
  July 7th, 2010 at 8:34 pm

  In response to your post, I’ll list down the relevant points:

  (1) I have not said that ANY team that wins a title must be among the league leaders in shot-blocking.
  (2) I have not stated that shot-blocking should be pursued at the expense of fundamentally sound defense.
  (3) The Spurs, since the Pop era began, have always tended to win titles via DEFENSE, even more so than most other title winners have, and “shot-blocking” has been a prominent feature of that defense.
  (3) I have presented data that suggests that the SPURS (as opposed to other teams) appear to win championships with a much higher shot-blocking ratio than the ratio on our more recent teams.
  (4) Currently, we are tied as the 9th worse shot-blocking team in the league. All of the semi-finalists this past year (Magic, Celtics, Suns, Lakers) had a higher number of blocks per game than the Spurs (LA would have been ranked higher had Bynum not been out so much).

  “…..there are great teams out there that don’t have great shotblocking and there are great shotblocking teams that are just not that good.”

  In fact, there are NO “good” teams in the bottom half of the league in shot-blocking. And as I said, the Lakers would have been ranked higher if Bynum had not missed so much time, and the Celtics just happen to be the best perimeter defensive team in the league, so their shot-blocking is now on the mediocre side, with the decline of KG. But the main point that I was making is that the SPURS are a team that has WON over the years with “shot-blocking” being a prominent component of their defense (a part of the “system”), and the shot-blocking used to be much better than it is today. This problem has only become more noticeable in the past 2 years, at least in part due to the decline in TD.

  “i still assert that the first priority is a big man who knows how to body up and play p&r d, not shotblock.”

  In my view, we need to have both, even if the player we pick up is not a great rebounder or scorer.

• Jim Henderson
  July 7th, 2010 at 10:22 pm

  Hobson13
  July 7th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

  “Hell, if the Warriors and Knicks are going to do that, why don’t they do a 3 way with the Spurs?

  Spurs get: Randolph, Turiaf, and Azubuike
  Knicks get: Tony Parker
  Warriors get: David Lee”

  I’d be open to that idea! Randolph plays Amare’s position anyways, and Azubuike’s natural position is the SF, a position for which the Knicks are loaded with young talent (Gallinari, Chandler, Walker). I don’t like not getting a PG back. Maybe we could add McDyess & Mahinmi for Douglass & a draft pick?

  “P.S. Out of curiosity, where do you cats think Lebron might go. I think its 50/50 between Miami and Cleveland. Just my opinion though…”

  I pretty much agree. I just want to get it over with so that the lower tiers can start to move. Lee is one of the big ones to go next. I wonder if Splitter is still in play (if he ever was)?

• andy
  July 7th, 2010 at 10:37 pm

  jim,

  speaking of misunderstandings and tangential argumentation:

  1) i did not claim, or even assert, that you said any team that wins the title needs to be a league leader in shot blocking. my assertion was that teams have won without it, and therefore it’s plausible for the spurs to win without it.
  2) i never said you claimed this. in fact, i can think of at least 5 posts where you declaimed it.

  trust me, i understand your points completely, but i think you have misinterpreted my argument, which is:

  July 7th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
  “you can win a championship without elite shotblocking.”

  3) while in the past, we might have relied on shotblocking to win our championships, this is irrelevant to my argument because i’m claiming that since other teams have won without superior shotblocking, it’s not completely necessary.
  4) yes, i understand that our shotblocking is bottom tier, but we’d only need one more block/game to get to middle of the pack, and an average shotblocker can provide that.

  by the way, i’d qualify houston and portland as good (i did say great, which was a mistake) teams who are bottom of the pack in blocked shots. and yes, i know they’d be higher with ode and yao, but i think they were good teams regardless.

  so again, you’ve misunderstood my argument. yes, i acknowledge that exceptional shotblocking is one way to vault ourselves towards championship contention. i have never argued that point. instead, i have always asserted that we don’t necessarily need shotblocking to contend for a championship, and that someone like oberto, who provides hustle and good positioning instincts on defense is more important.

  basically, you have conceded that we need someone who can positionally defend firstly by saying:

  “In my view, we need to have both, even if the player we pick up is not a great rebounder or scorer.”

  i agree with this, which is what i’ve been saying as well, with the one caveat of shotblocking subordinate to fundamental, physical defense. that can also be our ticket to winning, not necessarily superior shotblocking.

  finally, i agree that boston’s perimeter d was a big factor in their roll to the finals, which is something we heavily relied on in the past as well. i erred in saying our first priority was a big man who defends well (what i meant was our first priorit IN a big man is…). i actually think a lockdown perimeter 3 is more important than that big man. our past schemes of funneling drivers to tim+1 shotblockering bigs was one way to do it, but the bowen effect is gone as well. therefore, i’m hoping we sign travis outlaw or dorell wright.

• mac
  July 8th, 2010 at 12:31 am

  Reports are that the Miami Heat would like to sign RJ.

  Hmmm…

  Could we do a 3-way trade which would net us Dorrell Wright and Shaq?
  Or Wright, Anthony Morrow, and Raja Bell?
  Or Wright and Tyson Chandler?

  This allows us to keep Tony Parker, and still have our cap exceptions, for Splitter and a back up PG or somebody like Devean George.

• Tim in Surrey
  July 8th, 2010 at 12:44 am

  One thing that I think has been overlooked here, regarding all the RJ scenarios: The trade exception. One scenario that was mentioned (about 50 comments ago!) was having the Knicks sign Miller and Brewer and then trade them for RJ. Technically I don’t think that’s possible, but it would effectively be possible with a trade exception. As I understand it, it works like this: If you trade a player straight up to a team that’s under the salary cap by enough to absorb his contract, for one year thereafter you are given a exception of equivalent size to the salary cap. So even if you are still over the cap after the trade, you can sign a player or group of players to contracts that don’t count against the salary cap, as long as they don’t exceed the exception.

  The RJ for MM/RB idea is a possible example. If the Spurs signed RJ to a contract that counted for $8 million against the salary cap and traded him to the Knicks, they would receive an $8 million trade exception. (I believe they CAN sign and then trade RJ because they own his Bird rights.) They could then sign Miller and Brewer themselves, as long as the total of their contracts didn’t exceed that amount.

  Exceptions can also be traded, too. So the Spurs (if they were willing to go way over the cap) could combine a big exception with another player in order to bring back a really big contract from a team desperate to get under the cap-or avoid the luxury tax. Or they could trade that exception for a very talented young player or high draft pick.

  That said, I don’t really see the Spurs doing it. This sort of thing is very complicated and can break down easily. And it can mess with players’ heads in unexpected ways. Ultimately it’s really more about financial logic than basketball logic and I think the Spurs are focused on building an effective team, first and foremost, within the financial constraints of a smaller market and a less spectacularly wealthy owner (although Peter Holt has been very generous in his support of the team). But it’s interesting to consider.

  I still think they’d like to sign RJ to a contract, as long as its within reason. I know that “reason” is a scarce commodity in the NBA free agent market right now, but you can bet the Spurs won’t abandon it. Still, he’s likely to have MUCH more value to them in his second year within Pop’s system than in his first.

  Oh, and one more thing that was pointed out in a recent article: Don’t forget about state income taxes! Five NBA teams (Dallas, Houston, SA, Miami, and Orlando) have a built in advantage because they don’t have one. You do have to pay a state income tax for NBA games, based on where they are played. But if all of your home games (and a higher proportion of your road games because of division alignment) are played in TX or FL, you earn a LOT more money based on the same contract size. (I believe Toronto has the biggest handicap in this respect, which makes Bosh’s move to Miami all the more understandable.) So a NY-area team wanting to sign RJ would have to pay a good deal more just to match what the Spurs would offer him.

• Tim in Surrey
  July 8th, 2010 at 12:47 am

  Oh, and of course the Spurs have no sales tax advantage over Miami.

  Thanks for the update, Mac. Actually I think RJ would make a lot of sense for Miami. Again, though, the Spurs could still work a sign-and-trade with them and net an exception.

• Jim Henderson
  July 8th, 2010 at 2:05 am

  andy
  July 7th, 2010 at 10:37 pm

  “my assertion was that teams have won without it, and therefore it’s plausible for the spurs to win without it.”

  Possible, but not really plausible. During the Spurs title years they averaged 6.3 bpg. during the regular season. During the past three years since the last title in 2007, the Spurs have averaged 4.3 bpg. That is a significant drop-off. In addition, only one team that has won a title during the past 12 years has averaged less than 5.1 bpg. during the the year that they won it all (the 2007-2008 Celtics).
  By the way, 5 or more blocks per game almost always puts a team in the top 15; usually the title winner ranks in the top ten, sometimes in the top five. The Spurs ranked 27th in 2007-08 & 2008-09, and 20th this past season. That’s simply not going to cut it, not for a Spurs defensive system that has always thrived on good shot-blocking (e.g., 6.6 bpg. in 2004-2005, title #3).

  “…..other teams have won without superior shotblocking, it’s not completely necessary.”

  ONE TEAM has won with just mediocre shot-blocking in the past 12 years! The shot-blocking does not have to be “superior”, but it does need to generally be in the top ten or better, particularly for their type of defensive system.

  “……we’d only need one more block/game to get to middle of the pack, and an average shotblocker can provide that.”

  Average shot-blockers do not get one or more blocks per game. There’s only about 35 players in the entire league that get one or more shot blocks per game, and most of them play over 30 mpg.

  “……instead, i have always asserted that we don’t necessarily need shotblocking to contend for a championship, and that someone like oberto, who provides hustle and good positioning instincts on defense is more important.”

  Oberto was a fundamentally sound player for us, but the data do not back up this assertion that the Oberto-type defense was just as effective as having more of a shot-blocker. In fact remember, when Oberto was here, TD was getting 3 blocks per game. Now he’s getting 1.5 bpg. But as a TEAM, we still averaged over 5 bpg. in the first 2 years that Oberto was with us, but since 2007-08 (2 of them w/Oberto), our team bpg. have sunk, and are record & playoff performances have begun to diminish along with it.

  “……shotblocking subordinate to fundamental, physical defense.”

  Yeah, I disagree. We need both equally, in my view.

  “….i actually think a lockdown perimeter 3 is more important than that big man. our past schemes of funneling drivers to tim+1 shotblockering bigs was one way to do it, but the bowen effect is gone as well. therefore, i’m hoping we sign travis outlaw or dorell wright.”

  Again, I think we need BOTH the perimeter & shot-blocking defender equally, if we have any true designs at winning a title. I agree with your SF selections. Outlaw’s a bit undisciplined on both sides of the ball, but he’s young and has tremendous physical attributes. Wright is actually quite similar, but a bit less trigger happy. Both have great length & athleticism, which I love.

• td4life
  July 8th, 2010 at 2:14 am

  TIAGO SPLITTER IS AWAITING AN OFFER FROM THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS, AND HE HOPES THAT IT COMES VERY VERY SOON (before the 15th).

  Tim,

  No, exceptions cannot be traded, but the subsequent trade (in which the exception is “spent”) would generate a new trade exception for the other team since they are getting less immediate value (as measured in salary) back.

  Also, you can use the trade exception on more than one player, but you cannot combine multiple trade exceptions. So, if the Spurs got an $8M trade exception from NY or MIA (or any team under the cap) they could use a portion of it on, say Anthony Morrow, and a portion of it on, what the hell, let’s say Shane Battier. I think the only way you could use it to get a player who’s contract costs more than that $8M, is by adding it to the salary of the player you are trading away, say McD + $8M for Tyson Chandler, as an example.

  Finally, the Knicks (in your example) could not sign free agents from the open market and immediately trade them to us for RJ. We would have to get the trade exception from NY, or more likely Miami (mac’s example), and then go orchestrate separate trades for MM with Washington, and RB with Memphis.

  Mac,

  Well, well, well.

  I have been working on accepting the idea that we are not gonna have significant additions to this team (outside of Splitter), as evidenced in my posts going back several weeks. Though I’d just as soon choose youth over the average veteran talent, I doubt Pop would, and in fact, there are very few players that we could get that project to be, not only difference makers, but who are actually better than RJ and McD. Not to mention TP.

  But the thought that someone like Miami would have strong interest in RJ makes it interesting. If RJ is lured elsewhere, especially to a team under the cap (and a team with the ability to S&T Dorell Wright, no less) then, despite the fact that Pop would like to keep RJ, he might not be able to, which pleases me.

• td4life
  July 8th, 2010 at 2:21 am

  Travis Outlaw is assertive on offense, and is has a great NBA body. But he makes more bone-headed mistakes than we can live with… his mental lapses at both ends of the floor are one of the most obvious aspects of his game. He is a veteran now, so this is not something that will change, and he would drive Popovich nuts on his way to Roger Mason’s spot in the doghouse and on the bench.

• Jim Henderson
  July 8th, 2010 at 2:36 am

  Tim in Surrey
  July 8th, 2010 at 12:44 am

  “One scenario that was mentioned (about 50 comments ago!) was having the Knicks sign Miller and Brewer and then trade them for RJ. Technically I don’t think that’s possible, but it would effectively be possible with a trade exception.”

  That doesn’t appear legal.

  From a previous post on this thread:

  Jim Henderson
  July 5th, 2010 at 10:13 pm

  Lenneezz
  July 5th, 2010 at 9:38 pm

  “Teams can’t sign a FA and then trade him. The Knicks couldn’t sign Miller or Brewer and then trade him for RJ.”

  “…….If they were willing to keep the players on the roster, than they could make the trade Dec. 15. I doubt that would appeal to either the Spurs or their trading partner.”

  Yeah, you’re right. Outside of doing a sign & trade with your own team’s free agent, a team cannot sign an unrestricted FA from another team and turn around and quickly trade him. The rule is explained under question #82 at the link below:

  “82. When can a team trade a free agent it signs? Do they have to keep him forever?…

  ….Generally, a player cannot be traded until three months after signing a contract or December 15th of that season, whichever is later.”

  http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q82

  Tim in Surrey
  July 8th, 2010 at 12:47 am

  “Actually I think RJ would make a lot of sense for Miami.”

  If Miami signs LeBron, they can’t afford him.

• Ian
  July 8th, 2010 at 2:40 am

  Spurs won two titles without a quality shot blocker (outside Tim Duncan) during their championship runs in 2005 and 2007. With the (probable) addition of Splitter, I don’t see why Spurs should require a shot-blocking specialist. Will there be enough minutes to go around to begin with?

• mac
  July 8th, 2010 at 2:50 am

  Regarding my last post, there are a number of ways the Miami thing could work out.

  But, just for the fun of it, let’s imagine that Pop is gonna give serious tick to the young guys who prove to be as talented as we hope. And through the moves I hinted at previously, we surround them with smart veteran players to coach them on the floor, as Boston did with Perkins and Rondo in their championship year.

  With that in mind (and the fact that Shaq has said San Antonio is his 1st choice), I am not saying that this is the best roster we could parlay an RJ to Miami trade into, but…

  Starting 5:
  TP, James Anderson, D Wright, TD, Splitter

  2nd Unit from Hell:
  Hill, Raja Bell, Manu, DB, Shaq

  We sell out home games for 2 straight years, and Shaq goes out David Robinson style, after two Spurs’ championships. That’s right, we finally win back-to-back the next two seasons!

  Okay, before everyone jumps on me for my rotations, I know that Shaq would start (even though he’d thrive next to Ginobili, and his best compliment might be DB with his new midrange shot), and we probably would not start Anderson and Wright together (even though I explained it in the 2nd paragraph above). But I think those rotations would be fun to watch.

  Most likely the starting 5 would be
  TP Bell Wright TD Shaq
  and the fourth quarter crew would often be
  TP Manu Hill TD Splitter (if he’s better on D, and at the free throw line than the big Diesel), but we’d have ALOT of blow-out wins.

• Ian
  July 8th, 2010 at 3:00 am

  @mac - Raja Bell will likely sign with Miami. Apparently many of his family members live in Florida, and he did state that Miami’s one of the three teams that he prefers to sign with (others were Orlando and Dallas if I recall correctly).

• mac
  July 8th, 2010 at 3:25 am

  Ian-
  Dallas and Bell have expressed interest in eachother, but Dallas may have limited options if Dampier goes elsewhere.
  Spurs have expressed interest in Bell, Heat have not.
  The Heat have not expressed interest in Raja Bell, and are in talks to acquire the shooter Rudy Fernandez.

• doggydogworld
  July 8th, 2010 at 6:03 am

  @Ian: “Spurs won two titles without a quality shot blocker (outside Tim Duncan)”

  But we no longer have that Tim Duncan. His blocks/game declined from 2.5 in the two most recent championship years to 1.5 now (and less next year?). We need someone else to pick up the slack to get back to that prior level.

• TradeTP
  July 8th, 2010 at 6:10 am

  Bushka- “You call McDyess McDoosh like it’s some kind of hilarious pun that only you and the other 5th graders understand” You were among the masses who thought he was “key.” I have to speak in a language that you can understand because all you do, along with the majority, is blindly agree with every move made.

  Fisher is a complimentary player, agreed. But isnt it funny that a complimentary player can get it done? Its about fitting with the system and now Parkers game is not what we need. Parker has had the burden placed on him but has never came through. If finding role players were “easy” why do we fail?

  ANDY- That is the POINT! We dont need a scoring PG to “run the show” read the beginning. Hill DEFERS TO HIS TEAMMATES just like Fisher and can control tempo. THAT IS WHAT THE SYSTEM NEEDS.

• Tim in Surrey
  July 8th, 2010 at 6:21 am

  Jim,

  I was actually thinking of the same rule that’s explained in paragraph that you linked to:

  http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q82

  For those who haven’t seen it, here’s a fuller excerpt:

  “Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team’s free agent. But there is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player’s rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.”

  So, technically, the Spurs couldn’t sign RJ and trade him directly to the Knicks for Miller and Brewer. But if they involved the Wizards and Grizzlies (each signing their own FA and trading him to the Knicks, who then traded them both for RJ as part of a sign-and-trade), then it’s entirely possible. As I said, though, it’s very complicated and could break down easily. A simpler way that it could happen is a straight-up sign-and-trade of RJ to the Knicks, which would net the Spurs an exception equal to whatever level RJ signed for. That exception could then be used to acquire Miller and Brewer directly as free agents. This method avoids involving the Wiz and the Griz but is riskier because the Spurs would be bidding against other teams. However, they would have a full year to use the exception.

  And technically, no you can’t trade an exception. But in reality it is quite possible as part of a single mega-trade that is, technically, filed as several separate ones. Essentially what happens is you use your exception in a first trade and then a second trade generates another one.

  As for Richard Jefferson signing in Miami, I was assuming that they don’t get James (who obviously plays the same position). If Miami doesn’t get LBJ and decides to use part of their remaining $14 million or so on Jefferson, I think it would likely be done through a sign-and-trade. If the Spurs have any interest in a Mike Beasley reclamation project, I could see Miami offering to throw in a future 1st-round draft pick just to get the Spurs to take him off their hands. Of course, in that case the Spurs might simply want to avoid Beasley and get a larger exception, to be used on someone like Miller. Again, that’s a rather complicated scenario and if I was Pat Riley I’d simply go after Miller myself.

  (Frankly, I don’t see why everybody is so deathly afraid of Beasley. OK, so he’s not exactly David Robinson or Kevin Durant between the shoulders. It’s not like he’s J.R. Rider or Roy Tarpley, either. Besides, he’s still so young. I have a feeling that if anyone could work with him, it would be Pop and the Spurs.)

• Jacob
  July 8th, 2010 at 8:42 am

  please God, dont do anything that involves Micheal freakin’ Beasley… he’s got Kwame cancer written all over him.

  I like the idea of the new roster lineup that features Shaq, D Wright and Bell…lol, what a way to sell tickets, maybe we’d win too!

• Jacob
  July 8th, 2010 at 8:44 am

  also, Mac

  what happens to McDyess in your O’neal lineup?

• mac
  July 8th, 2010 at 9:23 am

  Jacob,
  I agree with you 100% regarding Beasley.

  As for Dyess, he is either traded away to make help achieve a superior overall 10-man rotation such as the one I listed, or better yet, he is our IDEAL 5th big. The guy who plays more minutes when we are resting TD and Shaq, and if DB is still a defensive liability that we can’t afford in the playoffs, Dice’s minutes go up in the post season.

  Sell tickets? Yeah! I mean aren’t we chomping at the bit to see this happen and RUN OUT and buy them season tix right away? Win a title or two, with Shaq, Bell, and D Wright on board? I don’t see why not.

• Jim Henderson
  July 8th, 2010 at 11:34 am

  Ian
  July 8th, 2010 at 2:40 am

  “Spurs won two titles without a quality shot blocker (outside Tim Duncan) during their championship runs in 2005 and 2007. With the (probable) addition of Splitter, I don’t see why Spurs should require a shot-blocking specialist. Will there be enough minutes to go around to begin with?”

  You don’t seem to understand. Duncan used to block 2.5 - 3.0 shots per game. He now blocks 1.5 shots per game. That is a big difference. Splitter is not a shot-blocker. Yes, there would be about 15 mpg. for a solid shot-blocker as a 4th or 5th big, depending on whether we can trade McDyess. My suggestions are J. Anthony or L. Amundson with the LLE.

  Also, in 2005 & 2007 (our weakest title team), as a team we blocked 6.6 & 5.1 (5.5 in the playoffs) shots per game respectively (99′ - 7.0 bpg., 03′ - 6.5 bpg.). Since 2007, we’ve averaged just 4.3 bpg., 3.8 bpg. in the playoffs. That’s too great a gap to make up with just the addition of Splitter; he’s not a shot-blocker, and would be lucky to get close to one per game in his first year with the Spurs.

  doggydogworld
  July 8th, 2010 at 6:03 am

  I’m not surprised; Doggy gets it!

  Tim in Surrey
  July 8th, 2010 at 6:21 am

  Okay, gotcha. That is a bit complicated, but if it’s what the FO wants to do maybe they could make it work.

  mac
  July 8th, 2010 at 9:23 am

  “Sell tickets? Yeah! I mean aren’t we chomping at the bit to see this happen and RUN OUT and buy them season tix right away? Win a title or two, with Shaq, Bell, and D Wright on board? I don’t see why not.”

  Before you get too excited, I don’t see anywhere how you specifically plan to acquire all these guys. Does it make sense for ALL the players & teams involved? Also, it certainly is a “short-term” plan, adding Oneal AND Bell certainly makes us old. Three of our main rotation bigs would average THIRTY-SIX years old!

• Tyler
  July 8th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

  @TradeTp

  Ok you reeled me in. Do you honestly believe we would be a better team if we replaced TP with Fisher?

  (awaiting w/ vomit bag in hand)

• Ian
  July 8th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

  …and that’s why I was saying “With the addition of Splitter”. I know he’s not a shot block specialist, but he will contest and even block some shots by the virtue of his size. I was thinking that’d be enough to complement Tim Duncan in the interior defense, rather than signing another big man just to do the shot blocking.

• philip fletcher
  July 8th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

  When I watch Splitter play he didn’t get a lot of block shots simply because Euro basketball is played away from the basket, usually away from where Splitter is, It will be different here, will he turn into a shot blocker when all these guards/SF try to attack the rim, we will see. I think his shot blocking will greatly improve. As for winning it all, that depends on if people gel together, we may get shaq as well. This could get exciting

• Jim Henderson
  July 8th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

  Ian
  July 8th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

  “I was thinking that’d be enough to complement Tim Duncan in the interior defense, rather than signing another big man just to do the shot blocking.”

  Yeah, I don’t think it’s enough. Whether we trade McDyess or not, or make other trades, I say sign an additional role-player as a shot-blocking/defender/energy guy for a 12-15 mpg. role. Otherwise our shot-blocking still won’t get near where we were when we were the strongest defensively: 1999-2005.

  philip fletcher
  July 8th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

  Fair point, but too many “ifs” for my taste.

• TradeTP
  July 8th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

  Tyler- Im honestly not sure. If Fisher was 27 I would say yes.

  Fisher for Parker straight up is highway robbery because we could get so much more than Fisher for Parker. But he is the IDEAL team player, the IDEAL role player. Parker, and guys like him, will always have millions awaiting because people think (the casual fan) that scoring points equals a baller.

  Examples: Gilbert Arenas, Larry Hughes, Sebastian Telfair, Iverson, Kevin Martin… The list goes on and on. Score only players may look legit in box scores, and I love watching TP finish in the lane, but to WIN rings we need more. Its why I go ape shit when Bonner plays. Sure (insert any player mentioned as score only here maybe RJ) can score 40 on a given night but scoring 40 and giving up 41= loss.

  Like Parker in the playoffs two years ago. Lit up the column for points, but there were several instances when he turned the ball over, or let Barrea look like MJ, that were momentum killers, so his 40 went for naught. And he cant hit FTs.

  This is why I say it goes back to coaching. We have a methodical system, a pace system, yet our players arent suited for that type of game. Parker would be great on the Suns or in NY.

  If we keep the players we have now, yes, I think that a jack of all trades PG like Fisher is what we need over a drive only no FT PG like Parker. I cant understand why this is difficult seeing how we played when Parker was injured….

  Maybe Parker will come back and be a better passer? That could help.

  This would be the best trade ever:

  Nash and Dudley for Parker and McDoosh

• Tyler
  July 8th, 2010 at 4:51 pm

  @ TradeTp

  Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree then. I would engage you on some points you made, but chances are neither of us are going to be swayed.

• andy
  July 8th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

  last post i’ll make on this thread about shotblocking.

  1) jim, we disagree on this, plain and simple. the facts can swing both ways. yes, tim is not what he once was as a shot blocker, but he’s had to chase people around on p&r. if he has someone else to do that, and can stay at home on the basket (like the center that he is now), i think he can still average 2/game (fyi, he has averaged 2.5 or more blocks for less than half his career, so this whole 2.5-3bpg is a bit of puffery. i love tim, and he has always altered more shots than he blocked; his value was that his defense was bill russell fundamentally sound, but that plays into my argument too).

  2) there are “ifs” on both sides. your “if”, of whether a true shotblocker can get his one or two a game in the 12-15 minutes is just as questionable as splitter getting one per game in the 25-30 minutes he might play for us next year. if you think it’s reasonable for a marginal player like joel anthony to get his bpg and not get destroyed on p&r or pick & pops (especially since he’s 6’9″ in shoes), then i think it’s perfectly reasonable to expect splitter to pick up a block a game now that he’s in the nba and not europe. i don’t see how you can dismiss other people’s points so cavalierly when you make judgments based equally on opinion and a few facts. we have differing opinions, both with a modicum of facts to support our case.

• Jim Henderson
  July 8th, 2010 at 10:20 pm

  andy
  July 8th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

  “he has averaged 2.5 or more blocks for less than half his career, so this whole 2.5-3bpg is a bit of puffery.”

  The relevant point is what were Duncan’s block numbers during our “championship years”. He averaged 2.6 bpg. during our 4 championship seasons. That’s between 2.5 and 3.0, and is therefore not “puffery”.

  “…..your “if”, of whether a true shotblocker can get his one or two a game in the 12-15 minutes is just as questionable as splitter getting one per game in the 25-30 minutes he might play for us next year.”

  You don’t appear to understand. We need to get whatever Splitter can get us in blocks PLUS the 12-15 mpg. shot-blocker to get us back closer to where we were during the heart of our championship era, which was 6.5 to 7.0 per game. Currently we get about 4.5 bpg. If Splitter is able to log in close to 25 mpg. during his 1st year with the club (a fair, if not optimistic assumption - Scola got 24.7 mpg. in his 1st year with the Rockets), he might be able to get 1.0 bpg, give or take a small fraction. If everyone else on the team on average blocks at about the same rate (a fair assumption), this takes us to 5.5 bpg. Where’s the other 1.0 - 1.5 bpg. going to come from to get us back to where we were at the heart of our championship years? A fifth big, with a 12-15 mpg. role, is one potential solution. Two choices that we still have a chance at signing with our LLE are Joel Anthony, and Lou Amundson. Joel Anthony blocked 1.24 shots every 15 minutes last season for the Heat. He also plays solid position “D” in the paint. Lou Amundson blocked .93 shots every 15 minutes last season for the Suns. Lou is a tenacious & scrappy defender, and is also a very good rebounder. Either guy would be a perfect addition to our front line. If we can sign a tough, defensive wing, and get the rest of our players, particularly our young players on the team, to dedicate and rededicate themselves on the defensive end, maybe we can get back to what the Spurs do best: win with aggressive “D” on the perimeter, AND excellent “rim protection” on the interior.

  “i don’t see how you can dismiss other people’s points so cavalierly when you make judgments based equally on opinion and a few facts.”

  I SPEND TIME SIFTING THROUGH A LOT OF DATA, and attempt to present such data in a logical fashion. And I don’t “cavalierly” do anything. If you don’t want to look at the data rationally, and chose not to counter the argument I’m making by providing SPECIFIC DATA of your own, what do you expect? The debate to merely be considered an expression of personal opinion, of equal value, based on each of our own initial preconceptions? Look, if you don’t think the data I present strengthens my argument, feel free to give a logical explanation as to why not, and provide specific data to counter it. But the fact that just ONE team in the last 12 years has won a championship with less than 5 bpg. is not just some idle piece of data. To any rational person, it suggests that shot-blocking at a better than average level appears to be strongly correlated with winning championships. For the Spurs, based on their defensive system, the correlation is even higher: 6.3 bpg. average over the 4 title years. How do you explain away these patterns? Better perimeter “D” during those years helped our shot-blocking? What is your theory here?

• td4life
  July 9th, 2010 at 3:58 am

  “But the fact that just ONE team in the last 12 years has won a championship with less than 5 bpg. is not just some idle piece of data. To any rational person, it suggests that shot-blocking at a better than average level appears to be strongly correlated with winning championships. For the Spurs, based on their defensive system, the correlation is even higher: 6.3 bpg. average over the 4 title years. How do you explain away these patterns? Better perimeter “D” during those years helped our shot-blocking? What is your theory here?”

  I haven’t followed this shot-blocking debate. But if I were to guess, I’d say that the one championship team with less than 5BPG was the Celtics. I’m making that guess not by recalling their rotation bigs, but by noting their key bigs. All the champs in the last 12 years had relatively dominant defensive bigs, so of course they altered and blocked a lot of shots. If the Spurs added somebody like a current Ratliff or a younger Raef Lafrentz, guys who can pile up pretty good BP48minutes, it doesn’t necessarily make us better. More importantly, the champ teams had elite bigs (least of all, that Boston team) who were talented and smart enough to execute stellar defensive schemes over the course of the game.

  There are plenty of guys who can block shots, but otherwise make you a worse team, even at the defensive end. I am sorry if this has already been pointed out, but I am sure that this logic is what is behind the resistance to your campaign to add a 15mpg shot-blocker. Guys here, yourself included, are more interested in adding overall talents to our depth chart, than just adding some tall skinny shot-blocker who makes us cringe with his on-court play. I am guessing that our fellow posters just aren’t convinced that the available shot-blockers have enough in common with the smart, talented bigs of recent championship squads to warrant signing them.

  In the case of the post-Robinson Spurs champ teams, Duncan was still so good that he could carry the lesser talents at his side, who happened to be better on defense, and better at using their length to execute our defense than the guys we have now. (But really, we can thank Robert Horry, more than our starting centers, for those two trophies. We sure seemed to play better when he was on the floor.) This is obviously less true today, and so the need for truly smart, multi-talented bigs is even greater than it was in ’05-’07. The current opposition (Boston, LA, Orlando) have guys like that. Orlando only has one, and so they are not champs. Dallas, Philly, and the Clippers have had pretty good shot-blockers, but so what.
  ————————————————————
  True or False:
  If all good front court defenders block shots,
  then all good shot blockers are good defenders. (B) False.
  ————————————————————
  Joe is a good shot-blocker. (True)
  Joe is a good defender. (True)
  Joe is a good basket ball player. (True)
  Larry is a great shot-blocker, so he must be a great basketball player. (False)

• Jim Henderson
  July 9th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

  td4life
  July 9th, 2010 at 3:58 am

  I don’t disagree with much of what you said, but it does not provide data that weakens my central point, which is:

  The data show that considerably better than average “shot-blocking” is associated with winning championships, and with the Spurs and their system, the “shot-blocking” has been MUCH higher than average in championship years. And I’m not talking about getting shot-blockers that don’t play fundamental “D” as well. That’s what loser teams like the Warriors do.

  “This is obviously less true today, and so the need for truly smart, multi-talented bigs is even greater than it was in ’05-’07.”

  First of all, Duncan is still pretty capable. 18 pg., 10 rpg., & 1.5 bpg. is not exactly chopped liver. Blair will be coming on as a 22 year old PF that can score, and he certainly rebounds with the best of them (and he’s actually an okay shot-blocker for his height). Splitter should bring a pretty sound all-around game, but for a 7 footer, he’s not a particularly good shot-blocker. McDyess can still play some decent “D” in stretches (witness play against Dirk in the playoffs), though his age will catch up to him before long. If we add a YOUNGER a guy that can block shots & play sound “D” in the post, that would help our team, in my view. Sure, we’d rather have an all-around stud to add to the front line, but lets stick to realism.

  The Spurs are currently more than 2 bpg. lower that they were during the heart of their championship years. As a result, in my view, that is one area that could stand a considerable upgrade to compete at a high level again. However, it is certainly not the only thing we need. We had overall better perimeter defenders and “clutch” shooters as well during our championship years. ALL of these areas need to be addressed. That’s why at a minimum, I would like to add guys like Morrow, Bell, and Anthony or Amundson, or perhaps D. Jordan, to add critical depth to our perimeter/shot-blocking “D”, and 3-point shooting. Obviously we would need to make a trade (RJ, McDyess, Mahinmi, etc.) to have a shot at getting role players like these.

  Adding Bonner doesn’t help, and is NOT a good sign that we’re going to do anything but play out the string to another early round exit.

• td4life
  July 9th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

  Jim,
  I wasn’t disagreeing with you. Just explaining that posters don’t believe that Amundsen and Jordon the difference we need. I disagree, I just don’t think those guys are attainable. Most additions to our front line require us taking a step backward by losing McD and TP. As disappointing as it is, there aren’t really any big man upgrades over McD.

  For me, I would vastly prefer promising projects such as Anthony Randolf to Matt Bonner. Are we necessarily contenders? No, but resigning MB and RJ virtually assures that we aren’t contenders. We owe it to TD and Manu not to start a rebuild just yet, but all the same, it’s just a long disappointing 48 months until we witness the full-on rebuild beginning in earnest… hopefully Hill, Splitter, Anderson, and DB show tremendous growth heading into that 2012 off-season.

• td4life
  July 9th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

  I meant to write 24 months, not 48 months

• Jim Henderson
  July 9th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

  td4life
  July 9th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

  “Just explaining that posters don’t believe that Amundsen and Jordon the difference we need. I disagree, I just don’t think those guys are attainable.”

  Maybe not, but you can’t honestly say that these two are not “within reason” as a possibility still. It’s not like they’re slam-dunk, 4+ million dollar guys. Their overall skills are too limited for that. We have a 2 million dollar LLE available, what better place to put it on the table than for one of these two guys. If they take it great, if not, we’ll be glad to use it elsewhere. We’ve got other weaknesses to fill.

  “Most additions to our front line require us taking a step backward by losing McD and TP.”

  Most, perhaps, but probably not all of them, and that’s assuming a step back for one season. There are deals that could very likely make us better in year two and beyond. Hell, TP might not even stay here in 2011. Why not get a head start on getting some budding young potential studs in here now so that a “less-than-crash” rebuild project can be pursued more quickly and with less pain?

  “I would vastly prefer promising projects such as Anthony Randolf to Matt Bonner. Are we necessarily contenders? No, but resigning MB and RJ virtually assures that we aren’t contenders.”

  I agree, wholeheartedly.

  “We owe it to TD and Manu not to start a rebuild just yet…”

  We don’t have to call it a “rebuild”, but we should be looking to add quality young pieces NOW, even if that means having to trade TP ( for the RIGHT pieces - and there are some teams where this might work, like NY). We are destined to lose “some” at the point in any TP trade, certainly near term, but we would have a shot at adding at least one or two young players with “star potential”. And I believe that those are the types of moves we should be making this off-season.

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