A Night of Ugh

Tim,

What about trying to ship Bonner, cash (to even the salaries) and a 2nd round pick to Golden State for Brandan Wright instead of trading him for essentially a roster spot?

While BW had two disappointing years in the league, I think the gamble is good, both in the short run (he’s a combo forward who can play as a big 3 or a quick 4, despite definitely missing the 3pt range) and in the long run (if he has a strong training camp, the FO can exercise the option included in his rookie contract, if not, he basically would be the same expiring contract Bonner is).

Golden State is clearly going with Randolph (who, obviously, is far better) and I think they are quite open to trade young players with potential who saw limited PT in exchange of… nothing/Devean George.

Nick,

That’s an intriguing prospect you bring up there with the Brandon Wright trade. But ultimately, I don’t think BW would really have a place in SA’s system. They need someone who can defend not only mobile 4′s but also bigs who can play with their back to the basket (like Bynum, Gasol, Howard).

Speaking as someone who attended about a dozen games last season and watched most of the rest on TV, BW gets absolutely manhandled in the post. Did you see Gasol snap his shoulder like a wishbone? He missed a good 1/3 of the season due to that injury.

He does have a nice developing offensive game around the basket and rebounds and blocks shots at a pretty good rate. If the Spurs were in total rebuild mode, I’d say go for it, but at this stage he’s really a long term project. What with Ian’s development and Splitter on the way, combined with the addition of defensive minded bigs like Ratliff and McDyess, Brandon just doesn’t have a niche on this team as I see it.

If we could just somehow turn Bonner into Azubuike, now you’re talking. He D’d up Kobe last year better than George Hill, plus shot 45% from 3.

Kaveh – love the perspective, you bring to the Spurs site as a laker fan

Odom #3 in +/- in Nba?? Cause he always plays with Kobe #5 and Gasol? Shocker!

Why don’t you extol the amazingness of Bonner on this site, #20 in +/- in Nba? Best of any Spur! If that is such an important criteria? Higher than Nash, Anthony, Gasol, Nowitski, Rondo, Bosh, Parker, Pierce, Billups, Turkoglu etc.,etc. Please…..give me a break.

Watch what happens to Jefferson’s +/-, playing with Parker and Duncan all the time.

I’m surprised the Lakers don’t want an asterisk next to their championship, i.e. “the year all our competitors were injured”, seeing that all-stars Ginobili, Garnett, and Nelson were all hurt.

Signing Odom was a must, but seeing how he said, if the Lakers had lowered the offer to the mid-level for 5 yrs like Miami, he’d have signed anyway, the Lakers clearly overpaid.

We’ll see if Artest can shoot 50% from 3 in the playoffs with the same open looks that Ariza got.

I hope the Spurs sign Bowen back, he would be an important defensive cog come playoff time. Brent Barry left bitter, and look how limited his playing time with the Rockets was this past year.

Go Spurs Go

lvmainman,

I agree with your points about +/- being a misleading statistic. I would guess Odom’s is further enhanced by the fact that he is a staring-caliber player who frequently came off the bench. There is no debate that he is a game-changer when he’s on, however, and a big matchup problem for our Spurs.

I can’t believe I’m doing this but I do have to defend Artest. As a resident of Houston, and a secondary Rockets fan (sorry!), I do have to point out that Artest (at least in his time here) was a great spot-up shooter from beyond the arc. He should thrive off open looks he gets playing with Kobe and Gasol. Unlike Ariza, however, he doesn’t stick to his role, and takes many other terrible shots and over-dribbles.

Additionally, although he is no longer good at defending quicker guards (Batter did a superior job defending Roy and Bryant, and accordingly was given the primary responsibility), he should be a good defender against one LeBron James (or other strong wings). So the signing may make sense from that perspective. Unfortunately Kobe is good enough defensively to cover the quicker assignments, like Manu.

As pointed out before, Ariza has had some of the most success against Tony’s penetration. By swapping for Artest, Tony should have a field day against the Lakers. For that reason, along with the questionable ability of Artest to stick to his role, I am not too worried about his signing. Odom will be more of a problem for the Spurs, in my opinion.

I can’t think of a single roster spot I’d willingly give to Bowen right now. He’s not good enough and his career is just about over. He can’t defend Kobe either – Kobe shot better than 50% that entire series in the conference finals two years ago. At the other end, he makes us a 4-man team. I don’t even think he’s good enough any more to put in on defense every other possession at the end of the game. He’s just not that good right now – he’s a 38 year-old man who’s made a career out of defending the league’s best, and he’s just not up to it any more. I don’t see this as disloyalty, and I don’t think Bruce would either. I was really sad to see Malik Rose and Stephen Jackson go, too, but we just found other ways to win.

Bonner for a roster spot is a good idea, in my opinion at least (future draft pick and/or cash in return can still be used in possible future trades right?). Let’s not forget the spurs are over the luxury tax line and Peter Holt isn’t one of the richest owner in the league. I’m assuming at least 2 million of salary can be shed if Bonner is replaced by (veteran-minimum-paid) Bowen, and that’s 4 million saved on Mr. Holt’s account when we consider the luxury tax.

Sure, Bonner may have some nice skills but let’s face it: he’s a defensive liability. Even at 38, Bowen can still defend and knock down occasional 3s.

This just in… Ron Artest is a lunatic.

I am an unabashed Laker fan. But I love the Spurs (as I love any second-best competition) too. I believe that a healthy Spurs team will compete with the Lakers. Who has the advantage? Only time will tell.

My opinion is that next year’s Lakers squad is much different (and improved) from last year’s team. With a healthy Andrew Bynum (are those church bells tolling for a wedding or funeral?) and the addition of Ron Artest, dynamics for the Lakers second unit will probably transform/change the most. What we’re likely to see are second-unit lineups of Bynum/Gasol-Odom-Artest+parts. This year the people who (wishfully) dog Kobe’s “mileage” will be silent. Similarly, Derek Fisher and Pau Gasol might work a lot less during the regular season–ensuring they’ll be fresh for what’s important.

Ron Artest is probably one of the most entertaining characters in the NBA. Beyond the Palace incident, he’s a good enough guy. Loopy, but entertaining. He’s going to fit in perfectly as a 3-pt specialist on the starting squad and as a first, second or third scoring option on the second unit. He’ll probably get 10-12 shots a game and those posessions are coming from players like Sasha, Farmar, and Fish. I’ll take Artests 35-40% 3-pt shooting to any of the aforementioned players.

One of the pitfalls of Ariza was his inability to initiate offense. He don’t have a low-post game, he don’t have a handle, and he don’t do much else than spot-up and slash. Which is great–no–perfect for the first unit: but not so great for the second. Kobe likely logged significant minutes with the second team because Ariza could not “handle” any offensive responsibilities beyond his limited role. The advent of Artest likely means significant reductions in playing time for many of the starters. Over a season, that time accumulates and amounts to something. I know that Spurs fans are cognizant of playing-time dynamics and recognize their importance for a deep playoff run.

Really, Artest’s integration comes down to a conflict of force (Artest’s playing personality) and form (the Lakers’ system). I believe that the Triangle offense is perfect for a player like Artest; and that the team already has many strong personalities and a winning culture that will dictate Artest’s participation. Maybe this is optimism, maybe not. But I have a feeling deep in the pitiest of my stomach that the Artest crash-n’-burn camp are g(r)asping for hope.

For the Spurs: I know that Pop sits starters to keep them rested, but how have recent additions impacted this approach? Do the Spurs have enough depth now to play everyone for 82 (god willing)? How do y’all foresee the first and second teams shaking out? Which will be the most affected units, how does playing time change, etc.?

This really is a great time for Basketball. Are we there yet?
Sorry for the LA-invasion, but what can I say, I love this blog.

Well, you do have Tim Duncan. He’s no slouch.

Another question for Spurs fans (that watched the finals): After “witnessing” Gasol’s work on Howard, would you say that he’s approaching Duncan’s defensive skill level? I know they have slightly different skill sets; but I have to say I was very impressed (and surprised) by Pau’s performance (not that he didn’t bring it consistently throughout the year) in comparison to the ’08 debacle.

Beat Counselor-
spot on with your analysis of the Gasol/Duncan question. Couldnt agree more, and definitely couldnt have said it as well, much less better myself. But i would like to elaborate a bit on something you mentioned: Pau is labeled soft because he often has to play at center instead of PF. I think this is a huge reason that Duncan is still much better defensively than Pau. Starting towards the end of The Admirals career, Duncan was forced to guard the other teams premier big man. Tim has often had to play the younger Shaq, and shut him down. Pau one on one against a 28-30 year old Shaq would have gotten completely abused, Duncan held his own. My point is that Duncan has always been able to match up well against the 4 or the 5 from the other team and Pau really only matches up well with most teams 4′s.

I do not agree that our frontcourt is not elite. The lack of a single dominant big next to Timmy does not mean that we wont be able to hold our own. Having the multiple bigs that we have allows us to match up with anyone. Ratcliff is an excellent defender and should be able to do some good work on Bynum or Gasol. Blair is a solid energy/rebounding guy. We have no idea what to expect from Mahinmini. Bonner can strectch the floor and keep other bigs from guarding the paint. I dont know anything about Haislip, to be honest, but even if our rotation is TD/McDyess/Blair/Bonner/Ratcliff, i think we can play the matchup game. We’ll pick our poison with the lakers and let Lamar go off and just shut everyone else down. In previous years its how we beat the suns, the cavs, and even the lakers. Lets look at it this way. Kobe will get 30 points a game against us- but we’ll make him work for it like we always do. We’ll throw a body on Lamar, but we wont let him be a passer or a playmaker. We make him a scorer. So he gets 30 a game. We can hold Artest to 20 no problem. But then where are the touches for the other Lakers bigs? The average NBA team takes what, 90 shots a game against us? To get his 30 points, Kobe will have to take at least 20 shots. Artest will probably need about 15 to get to his 20 points. To get his 30, we’ll say Lamar has a good day and only needs 15 shots. Bynum and Gasol have at most 20 shots a piece. With Duncan guarding Gasol, its unlikely more than 10 of those shots are going in, so we’ll say he gets 15 points. We’ll say Bynum gets 15 as well. That puts the lakers at 110 points. Dont be discouraged by these numbers, because they are hypothetical and for Lakers fans, that has to be the best case scenario, because realistically there is no way all those guys will go off like that on the same night- because those wont be the only guys shooting the ball. Fish will launch some 3′s, Farmar/Vujajic/Walton will shoot some. And all that takes away from your best players opportunities.

Basically, we still have the advantage of being able to control the pace. I think we’ve proven that with discipline, its much easier to slow down a game than it is to speed one up. If we hold our opponents to 90 possessions a game or less, we will win, its that simple. Our defense will be much, much better this year because of our added bigs. Ratcliff is a good defender, Blair is a good defender, Mahinmini might be a good defender. Bonner will get spot minutes and wont be abused by the lakers second string of Mbenga/whoever else. We just have to play Spurs basketball, slow it down, and play to our strengths. If i’m not mistaken, its how this blog got its name- playing against the Spurs is 48 minutes of slow, grind it out basketball. Its 48 minutes that feels like an eternity. Its 48 minutes of Hell.

BB + Jblock,

Jefferson’s +- is surprisingly awful, and it has nothing to do with how bad his team is. Here is the link: http://www.82games.com/0809/0809MIL.HTM

The Bucks last year scored .7 points MORE than their opponents when Jefferson was OFF the floor. The Bucks last year scored -1.7 points LESS than their opponents when Jefferson was ON the floor. So his +- is very bad. But this is just 1 stat.

Also, it has nothing to do with how good your team is, since it is comparing how your team does against its opponents with you on/off the court. If you put Lebron on the worst team in the league, he would have the best +- in the league –perhaps the number would even be higher on the worst team because their is such a relative difference.