by Graydon Gordian
According to Yahoo! Sports, the Spurs are close to signing Manu Ginobili to a 3-year extension worth up to $40 million. We’ll have more information as the story develops.
Umm… Jim, are you there?
KG took the t-wolves to the western conference finals and won the MVP so your comparison is weak.
Let me get this straight.. You want to get rid of Parker & Ginobili for Iggy & Dalembert?
Maybe you should just sit this one out champ…
Jim, let’s agree to disagree, but in my opinion you team of Hill, Iggy, Jefferson, Duncan and Dalembert is just a tad better that the current Sixers team, one of the worst in the NBA. Do you really, honestly believe that that is better than Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Duncan, Blair (I am not even counting Splitter)
You cannot be serious.
“No. My team would be:
How would you get the 25 million or so for Iggy and Dalembert? The Spurs would need 25 million dollars to trade back to Philly. Even if they somehow got some exception to the NBA Salary cap rules I don’t see how that team wins 50 games. Dalembert isn’t that good of a defender (see 76ers games) and there is certainly not enough outside shooting for that team. Plus the mix of players wouldn’t work at all.
You have full-court fast paced wings in Jefferson and Iggy
You have slow half-court bigs in Duncan and Dalembert.
Plus this starting five would make Duncan the number one option on offense on every possession. I don’t think at this point in his career he’s up to carrying an offense for 100+ games. Plus, as mentioned, there would be a lot less space for him to operate then there is now with since Iggy and Dalembert can’t shoot, and Jefferson is certainly no Reggie Miller (or Bruce Bowen).
As for trading Parker for Jefferson. The Wolves would never do that. That have Sessions, Flynn, and Rubio overseas and now you really think they would take Parker? Only if they hired Don Nelson would they have any use for four point guards. (that would be a fun lineup though…Parker, Rubio, Flynn, Sessions, and Kevin Love)
As for Camby, Hayword, and Dampier. Those guys are not worth much more than the midlevel anyways and the Spurs have that whether they re-signed Ginobili or not. Plus Ginobili is much better than all three of them. All three are as injury prone or more so than Manu plus Camby doesn’t show on pick and rolls (which is a giant part of NBA play), Haywood doesn’t always play hard and would create spacing issues for the Spurs, and Dampier is Dampier.
As for Cousins. There’s not a bigger head case in this draft. He had a horrible attitude at Kentucky while he was working towards a multi-million dollar contract. I can’t wait to see his attitude and work ethic once he gets those millions! The Spurs that I know would never take a chance at Cousins.
ESPN reporting the Spurs and Manu agreeing to a 3 year, $38.9 million extension.
VP of Common Sense
April 7th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Iggy, Dalembert, AND Williams, a talented TWENTY-THREE year old point guard. But you guys make me laugh. All you think about is the “individual” “star” power of the Spurs in the deal, which has partly resulted from having good teammates around them, and a great coach, which ALL TOGETHER has resulted in a few titles. I don’t think most of you have even once considered age, physical durability or athleticism as important factors, nor how a particular player might fit in the Spurs system in an effort to address a salient weakness that the team has (height & defense). Thus, until you guys begin to demonstrate an understanding of, and proper weighting of these factors, I think I’ll just refrain from further commentary on the subject of the Philly trade proposal.
By the way, in an afternoon game today against the fifth seed in the East, the Miami Heat, which have a ten game winning streak, the “lowly” Sixers took the Heat down to the wire in a tough loss. And you know who had 19 pts., 8-9 shooting, 16 rebounds, and 4 blocks? That’s right, Dalembert. But you’re right, the 28 yr. old 7 footer just can’t play, and he really would be a terrible fit next to Mr. Tim Duncan. LOL!
On KG, I said in his last year with the T-Wolves his team was 32-50, a crappy record. Then he goes to play with some very good players in Boston and they win a title. There’s nothing wrong with that example. Even really good players need other good player to win it all. Pretty obvious. And I know one thing, Iggy would be an all-star on the Spurs.
April 7th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
“Jim, letâ€™s agree to disagree, but in my opinion you team of Hill, Iggy, Jefferson, Duncan and Dalembert is just a tad better that the current Sixers team, one of the worst in the NBA.”
No offense, but I just cracked up laughing when I read that! No team that had just Duncan & Iggy and any other “rotation players” in the league would would have record anywhere close to the record of this years Sixers squad. Get a clue before you make your next comment, please?!
“(I am not even counting Splitter)”
Gee, thanks for not counting Splitter, since WE DON’T HAVE HIM, and are unlikely to ever get him. And could we quit making silly arguments.
Duncan would be so better if at least 10% of the fouls commited against him would be called
How pathetic are the suns celebrating after every made basket. This must be like a championship for A’monkey Stoudemire, pathetic Grant over the Hill and Steve “lazy eye” Nash…they wont get out of the first round…any team can play well after 3 days off and against a team coming off a back to back on the road….
April 7th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
I’m tired of arguing this issue. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. You apparently think the Spurs are as good as they’re going to get as is. For you the only good players are the Spurs and a few players on other teams that we couldn’t possibly get. So, good luck winning a title over the next several years from internal growth & external tinkering. It’s not gonna happen.
April 7th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
“As for trading Parker for Jefferson. The Wolves would never do that. That have Sessions, Flynn, and Rubio overseas and now you really think they would take Parker?”
Actually, David, I didn’t give you the entire trade. That’s my fault. The trade suggested in its entirety was McDyess and Parker for Sessions and Jefferson and yes this trade does make sense. Twolves get and All Star PG to help with Flynn’s development as well as a good PF to help cover for Al’s absence. The Spurs get a good C and a decent young backup PG in Sessions. You referenced Rubio, however, he can’t come over until the 2012 season at the earliest due to the large buyout on his Spanish League contract. Like Splitter, there is a chance Rubio might never come over with his .
“As for Cousins. Thereâ€™s not a bigger head case in this draft.”
Yes, he had an anger issue as a freshman in college but he’s a 19 year old kid, David, who just needs a few years and a little maturity. With the mentorship of Duncan and Pop, there’s little reason to believe he won’t be fine.
David, what are your solutions to the Spurs aging front line?
Kobe got a 3yr/90 mil extension. I’ll take manu at less than half the cost.
man, you may as well let it go. Assessing talent is not a productive conversation in here.
In my opinion, Dalembert would be the best center the Spurs have had since David. I agree with you and would take him over Tyson Chandler or Marcus Camby.
Iggy, I would pass on. Never liked his game. Seems wild and out of control and far too inconsistent. Does have great athleticism, but would be very overpriced.
The Ginnobli extension….WOW. I think it was a great move to sign him to an extension now. At 13 mil a year, he did get market value. However, the Spurs did gamble mightely in doing so.
Ginnobli put together 2 months of awsome play over the last two years. It was a blast to watch him improve his market that much after a dismal two years with the Spurs.
However, He did deserve to get paid based on all that he has accomplished for this franchise.
Does not improve things for TP though. His status has definately changed with this signing. We will see…
The reasons for the loss were obvious, but I think it was the best coached game of the year for Pop…Decent rotations and even saw an on the spot adjustment or two.
In the third, with seconds on the clock, Mason put up a 3 ball that missed and came off as a long rebound.
Bonner grabbed that rebound, turned and put the ball on the floor and finished with a nice jump hook over Amare.
Im not a Bonner fan, but I thought is was his best play ever as a Spur. Shows that he could be more effective if he actually played the 4 spot.
Finally, As I have said all year long….Cannot win with this frontcourt and these pieces this year…No center at all, two PF’s starting, and no depth at that 5 spot whatsoever.
Even though I dont like the make up of our current roster, this team could go to the finals….Yes, the finals, if we had one decent player in the middle….It is killing us.
also, Garrett Temple is OK…Played well and demonstrated good poise…But The D League’s Marcus Williams is 10 times better.
Those are not solutions because they wouldn’t happen outside of a fantasy league. The Wolves are not trading Al Jefferson for Tony Parker.
First it doesn’t make sense for the Wolves to trade for another point guard. It also doesn’t make any sense to trade for Jefferson for an older player who would leave after next year. The Wolves wouldn’t win any more games with Parker as opposed to Jefferson. McDyess presents the same issue. Kevin Love is younger and better than McDyess. They are both bigs who can’t protect the rim. The Wolves are already trying to work around the Jefferson/Love playing together defensively issue and McDyess does nothing to solve that. Jefferson for a one year rental point guard is not a “solution” unless you’re playing NBA Live.
Another “solution” you propose is Demarcus Cousins. First the Spurs won’t be in a position to draft him. Second he has more than a little “anger issue”.
You might as well say a solution is…
The Spurs draft Evan Turner, then do a sign in trade with Booner, Mason, and Boogans for Chris Bosh, and then have Tiago Splitter come over from Spain.
My new lineup
with Hill, Harriston, Splitter, and Blair off the bench.
In fact we could “solutionize” this thing even better!
Sign and trade Booner for Lebron James
Sign and trade Mason for Dwayne Wade
Sign and trade Boogans for Chris Bosh
Draft Evan Turner and John Hall
With all due respect, the team you outlined after the 76 trade wouldn’t come close to winning 50 games. Why? Is that team you propose better than the team we have right now? I say definitely no. If they’re not better than the team we have right now, which is barely going to get to 50 wins, how can you say they’d win 50 games no question?
While this team is younger and more athletic, you still have zero perimeter shooting. Hill, Iggy, and RJ aren’t going to be respected beyond the arc (which coincidentally is what’s happening in Philadelphia right now). Defenses would sag into the paint and beg you to beat them from outside. This team would score about 80-85 points a night in our system – not enough to win 50 games or come close to making the playoffs in the West.
Also, as much as I like him, Hill isn’t ready to lead an NBA team full time. He lacks the creativity to be a great facilitator on the offensive end, which leaves Iggy as your creator and that hasn’t exactly set the world on fire in Phily.
By trading Manu, you also gut one of the best benches in the league. Lou Williams, Bonner, Hairston, Temple, Bogans, and Blair doesn’t exactly strike fear in me.
And regarding your thoughts on Carl Landry – I would hardly call him a soon-to-be dominant PF in the NBA. Nice player? Yes, All-Star caliber? Probably not. He’s Paul Millsap at the very best, which isn’t bad, but by no means dominant.
April 8th, 2010 at 7:19 am
As I said, we’ll have to just agree to disagree. This team would win 50 games, and would score over 90, and give up 85. You guys just have NO idea how good Iggy would become on a good team with someone like the best PF to ever play the game. It’s become all to obvious that I’m not going to budge any of you on that. But the idea that he’s a “bad” shooter is pathetically ignorant (not that he couldn’t improve in that area), not to mention that outside shooting is NOT the most important skill you need to be invaluable to a team’s chances to win a championship: it’s DEFENSE, getting to the RACK for high percentage shot opportunities, and being a EXCELLENT passer, all things IGGY excels in at his position. Williams also has excellent overall potential at the point. And by the way, Hill has become an excellent outside/3 pt. shooter (40% this year, but not respected?!), and this will only improve, not to mention Bonner (a career 40% shooter, among the leaders in the whole league) in the rotation. It is true that we would need to add a 3-point specialist to the rotation through free agency. Perhaps Kapono, who knows.
And finally, I’m not saying the Philly trade is the best one out there that is/was potentially realistic, but it represents the type of thinking that this organization is going to have to come to grips with in order to compete at a HIGH level into the future. We have to start getting a bit younger & more athletic, and get a TALL competent big next to Duncan. But as I said to David G., none of you guys want to offer realistic suggestions on how to reinvigorate this team so that we have a “true” opportunity to challenge again for the title in the near future. The team has now decided that they want to keep Ginobli. Now what? Does that make this team as currently constructed a championship contender? I don’t think so. If you guys don’t think so either, what are YOUR SOLUTIONS!
”Does that make this team as currently constructed a championship contender? I donâ€™t think so”
DON’T EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE HEART OF A CHAMPION
April 8th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
We do have the type of players that “could” pull off a miracle. At this point, however, I just wouldn’t take that bet with less than 10/1 odds. I just look at the match-ups, and they simply don’t favor us to even get to the Conference Finals, let alone win it all.
I’m also big on reality, less on the traditional use of the word “hope”. The traditional concept of hope is for passive dreamers. Real hope is having the courage to take actions in an effort to change existing circumstances. I prefer to point out facts, and ultimately accept the situation as it is if I can’t do anything to change it. And the fact is, we are very unlikely to win a title with our current front line. Sure, in the unlikely event that we win, I’ll be quite happy, but I can’t DO anything to make that happen. Simply “hoping” for it by putting a positive spin on it is not going to make winning any more likely, but it will make the disappointment that comes with losing just that much harder to swallow.
Hey I presented an “opportunity” as true as yours already. Sign James, Wade, and Bosh this summer. That’s the kind of thinking the Spurs and their fans need to embrace if they want to win a championship anytime soon.
I find it hard to believe that Iggy plays great defense, gets high percentage shots (his 53% True Shooting says otherwise), and is an “excellent passer” could be the lead player for a 26-52 team in a week conference, playing in the weakest division in the NBA. 26-52 playing in the same division as Toronto, New York, and New Jersey! Really? Iggy isn’t one of the most overpaid players in the league? The 76ers haven’t been trying to give away Dalembert for year? How do you square that away Jim? No team would take Dalembert off the 76ers hands but he’s a big part of your “realistic solution”. What do you see that 31 other NBA front offices don’t see? The fact that Billy King liked him at some point tells you all you need to know about Dalembert.
Yet you continue to argue that Iggy, Dalembert, and a 6’1 shooting guard is the answer for the Spurs. Paying 30 million dollars a year is a great plan for the small market team like the Spurs.
April 8th, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Please cite your sources on this:
“The 76ers havenâ€™t been trying to give away Dalembert for year? How do you square that away Jim?”
Without credible sources, this comment is meaningless. Believe me, the ONLY reason they would be “trying to give Dalembert away” would be to engage in a strategy of “dumping salary” to create cap space. The tragic luck/mistake Philly made was signing Brand for big bucks, and then Brand suffering a very serious knee injury that has prevented him from ever getting back to the level of player he once was. That made it difficult for them to build around the three (w/Iggy & Dalembert). So I’m sure there’s been thoughts in the FO about completely gutting the team to start over. And I do agree, they overpaid a bit for Dalembert (and he probably can be had for closer to 8-10 mil. after is current contract expires in 2011). At 26 years old, and the only player in the league (on any team, good or bad) other than James to average +17ppg, +5.5 apg, +6 rpg, & +1.5 spg, Iggy is worth 12 mil. in my view, and would probably be worth more on a good team with a good coach, like the Spurs.
And, David, why do you keep repeating your point that really good players don’t play on weak teams? Has there actually been no really good players
that have ever played on weak teams? Why do you keep bringing up such nonsense, David? If you really think the point you’re making is correct, support your argument with some examples, like KG couldn’t be a good passer and defender because he played on a 32-50 T-Wolve team. Paul Pierce is not an excellent player because he played on six Celtic teams that won less than 36 games in a season? And no, I’m not going to take the time to list ALL of the examples, there are literally dozens of them. You’re the one that’s trying to make the point here, so why don’t you bring some examples to support it? What is your reasoning? I assume you do realize that a very good player has to have two or three other very good players, plus some solid role players, and a very good coach & FO to win there division, and at least get through a round or two in the playoffs? Unfortunately, Philly is not that team, and there’s not a damn thing that Iggy can do about it. You take Iggy off that team and put Tony Parker on the team instead and it would still be a poor team. Have you ever watched Iggy play (more than a couple of games!) over the years?
And by the way, I admitted in a recent post on this thread that the Philly trade I proposed was “not the best one out there”. I least I offered something up for public consumption. I get it that you don’t like the deal, and feel the need to pass it off as completely unrealistic & nonsensical, but what are your brilliant ideas, David, other than silly sarcasm?
The following is from my previous post, which I’m not surprised that you chose to ignore:
“The team has now decided that they want to keep Ginobli. Now what? Does that make this team as currently constructed a championship contender? I donâ€™t think so. If you guys donâ€™t think so either, what are YOUR SOLUTIONS!”
So, if you don’t think the Spurs are a solid contender for the title now, what are YOUR solutions, David? If you do, please explain how we’re favored in the crucial match-ups that will decide the victor among the elite teams? And please, try to present something more than puerile, mocking types of comments, like, lets just sign LeBron, Wade, & Bosh. That would be very helpful.
It’s common knowledge the 76’s have been trying to dump Dalembert for well over a year. Google it up and you’ll find the evidence. Also, read anything the ESPN columnists have written and you’ll find it as well, especially their chats. Before this year’s trading deadline, the 76’s were forced to throw in Iggy as a “sweetener” to try and get the deal done. Even with him included, no one bit. Phoenix came the closest, yet nothing got done.
Listen, I agree with your logic behind the trade. We definitely need another big on our roster. I’m also in agreement with you that it behooves us to be proactive, to listen to every potential offer out there (even deals that include cornerstones of our success) in hopes of putting the franchise on more solid ground, both short and long term. In fact, these are things I think almost everyone on this board agrees with. The only part I disagree with yout on is this particular deal. I just don’t see how that trade makes this franchise better, both in the short term and in the long term.
April 9th, 2010 at 9:14 am
“Itâ€™s common knowledge the 76â€™s have been trying to dump Dalembert for well over a year. Google it up and youâ€™ll find the evidence. Also, read anything the ESPN columnists have written and youâ€™ll find it as well, especially their chats. Before this yearâ€™s trading deadline, the 76â€™s were forced to throw in Iggy as a â€œsweetenerâ€ to try and get the deal done. Even with him included, no one bit. Phoenix came the closest, yet nothing got done.”
Fine, but as I said, because of the hard luck regarding Brand, the FO apparently had a panic attack, believing that they were now “stuck” with getting less out of the “big three” than anticipated for the the generosity they invoked (the salaries they offered at the time were healthy, if not a bit much), so they had some thoughts about gutting the team & starting over. Brand was a key piece to their long-term plans, and as we all now, while he can still play, he’s nowhere near the player he was at the time, and the future promise is likely gone forever.
In addition, there’s no indication that I’m aware of that Philly was simply interested in letting the two (Sam, Iggy) go for free, as simply a “salary dump”. Every indication is that they were open to trading the two for the right pieces. In fact, most recently, there were “apparently” talks about them trading Dalembert & Iggy to the Suns for Amare Stoudemire, but because the Sixers didn’t budge, supposedly the Suns were to add Barbosa to the deal, and the Sixers still didn’t take it (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13214/is-cleveland-big-enough-for-amare-and-shaq).
From the “chat” by ESPN’s, Chad Ford:
“In particular, the Suns are still holding out hope that Philadelphia will come to the table and agree to a deal sending Andre Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert to Phoenix. The Suns have sweetened their offer to the 76ers by including Leandro Barbosa in a package with Stoudemire. Also possible is a three-way trade that would send Hickson and Barbosa (along with Ilgauskas) to Philly, Stoudemire to Cleveland and Iguodala and Dalembert to Phoenix.”
Now, how is that say that the Suns were the one that balked at Iggy & Dalembert? They had to offer Stoudemire (one of the most dominant scoring PF’s in the game), AND add Barbosa (young, fast, talented shooter) to the pot, and the deal still didn’t go down!
So, the implication that somehow these players (Sam, Iggy) aren’t worth much as players, and are nowhere near worth their salaries is preposterous. And I’d be careful if I were you of equating “common knowledge” with rumor. If it is so COMMON, why don’t you just provide me a quick link that supports your case (please don’t use “team” blog chatter as a source).
As far as the trade itself, you and others undervalue Iggy & Dalembert in terms of what they would mean for our team, both now, and into the FUTURE, and over value our overstocked back court that’s at least halfway into twilight. And as I said, it is very likely this is not the very BEST trade out there, but I don’t here ANYTHING else from you guys on this blog as to what we need to do to address the front line issues that are likely to plague our team for many years without looking to upgrade NOW! It’s not that hard to offer up reasonable trade options or FA acquisitions that might make sense, yet everyone just wants to criticize trade, OR FA suggestions, and provide NO possible answers for a glaring weakness on this team so that we can again truly contend for a title over the next several years.
What are we going to do when Duncan retires, give up? Hope to get lucky in the draft for another “franchise” player? We need to wake up around here and start making some productive, meaningful suggestions, and if we’re going to critique, please bring some logic & data to support your “thumbs down” assessments.
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