Breaking News: Ginobili, Spurs near deal

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According to Yahoo! Sports, the Spurs are close to signing Manu Ginobili to a 3-year extension worth up to $40 million. We’ll have more information as the story develops.

  • http://spursunderground.blogspot.com/ b.diddy

    Not sure what a cache 22 is, but I do think the Spurs were in a bit of a catch 22…or rather a catch 20 as the jersery number may be.

    Oh, and I think that we all know that the Spurs big three are getting older, but there’s no way that we get anything close to resembling the value that Duncan and Manu have to the Spurs in return and I really don’t see how trading Tony makes the Spurs any better considering what would likely come back.

  • Jim Henderson

    Marcos
    April 7th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Names? If you’ve read any of my previous posts over the past several weeks, you’d notice that I’ve already provided a list of numerous possibilities for acquiring a “big” man (Camby, Haywood, etc.). Unlike the great majority of others on this blog, which prefer to sink into the fantasy that what we have now is enough to truly challenge for the title.

    I also proposed a block-buster type of trade that would bring Sam Dalembert to the front line in SA. Many want to diss that choice because you have no clue as to the potential value he would bring to this “team” in terms of getting another title. Apparently you’d prefer to chase icon’s, and past glory, while risking mediocrity (a low seed, first round playoff team, and perhaps worse, over the next several years).

    “Kobe is older and got $90M for three years, you don’t think Manu deserved at least what is being reported?”

    Kobe is a bit younger, and is more durable than Manu, but he is also in decline, and is in my view overpaid at this juncture in his career. Reports are for 27-30 million per year. No way. The Lakers could challenge with a guy like Joe Johnson, and he’s considerably younger, and cheaper. In short, overpaying for Kobe does not justify overpaying for Manu.

  • Mike3

    I don’t think Jim is saying that he’s upset that Ginobili re-signed (unless he’s insane), but just that if Ginobili had signed for less the Spurs would have more options in free agency.

    I’m not sure that’s actually true, because even without Ginobili the Spurs would be pretty close to the threshold, I imagine, and Holt is ultimately the one that determines what the spending options are. If he wants to absorb the luxury tax ramifications, we can get Splitter and re-sign some of our role players. If he doesn’t want to, we can’t.

    I think this signing is a testament to what Holt is willing to do, though. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Splitter with us next year, and if we can find some decent players in the draft… we’ll be championship contenders until this contract runs out.

  • Mike3

    @Jim

    Okay, replacing Manu Ginobili with Samuel Dalembert and Andre Igoudala (imo) would not make the Spurs better. It would make it less expensive to sign Splitter, but if Holt is willing to spend the money, I’d rather have Manu and Splitter than Dalembert/Iggy/Splitter.

  • Jim Henderson

    Jesse Blanchard
    April 7th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    As you know, I disagree with your assessment of the Philly trade. I won’t waste time belaboring that issue at this point.

    “The economy is the same, and expiring contracts are just as valuable. How do you think any of the big deals were done last summer?”

    By teams just wanting to engage in dumping salary for the sake of clearing cap space. That strategy is for “loser” type franchises (e.g., Wizards), or playoff contenders looking to get rid of players that just don’t fit into there long-term plans for what generally turns out to be a short-term fix. You don’t re-energize a team that USED to be a “no question about it” perennial contender over the past decade, a team now anchored by aging stars, with typically older players, and/or band-aid solutions.

  • Tim

    I remember some people wondered why the Spurs opted to give the Admiral a contract extention despite the fact that he was on his ‘last legs’. But you know what? Everybody quit saying things like “he’s stealing money” or “he should have retired so that the Spurs could sign someone younger” when Big Dave lifted the O’brien in 2003. Don’t forget that it was Big Dave that came back early from Hawaii to talk Timmy in to staying in SA back in the early 2000’s. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Timmy had a hand in getting Manu’s contract done. While he’s not the guy who holds the purse strings his opinion matters to the front office.

  • pablo

    i think sometimes you may need to overpay a little. good thing he is signed though. maybe he’ll keep playing with that fire and determination and lead the Spurs to a 5th championship ring? or maybe he’ll get hurt…. ouch, but who knows.

    what we do know is that the owner and front office want to win. that is great news. now for equally important- get Tiago Splitter signed. is his Spanish team’s season still playing? if their season is over i’d send a flight for him so that he could watch Spurs playoff atmosphere.

    an eight man rotation of Parker, Hill, Manu, RJ, Duncan, Blair, McDyess, of Splitter would be amazing. we do need another G/F who can shoot, but not as pressing as getting Manu signed (check, although not official) and Splitter over here (pending).

  • bduran

    Jim Henderson,

    It’s not like we’re paying $90 mil over the next 3 years. Manu has room to decline as a player to still be worth the money at $13 mil a year.

    Look, I agree that we’re not likely to win a championship, (largely due to lack of home court advantage), but you seem to not understand how good Manu really is. Jesse is correct, when healthy he is one of the top 5 players in the league. There is no gurantee that any number of pics, trades, or whatever will ever replace his production when healthy. In fact, I’d say it’s unlikely. As for the frontline, it’s better than people say. We’re 9th in defensive efficiency, even with our mediocre start. TD is still good, we’ve just been spoiled for the decade (or two). It’s not like we need two 7 footers out there all the time. The Magic have a great defense starting Rashard Lewis at the 4. Cleveland is good as well and who do they have? Varejao is good, big Z and Shaq, not so much anymore. The Spurs as is can compete, and Manu is a big part of that.

    Also, 1) isn’t a myth ( or commonly held, I want Manu to stay no matter what, however, I do care about championships) it’s an opinion you are free to disagree with.

  • Greyberger

    As a small market team in a seller’s year (lots of teams with cap space and/or a win-now attitude) we’d be overpaying anyway. Might as well overpay for somebody we WANT.

    Kobe getting 30M per doesn’t justify paying manu 13M, but it does put it in some context. Does Kobe provide twice as much to the Lakers that Manu does for the Spurs? Do they rely on him twice as much? Keep in mind the Lakers were not really competing with any other teams as it was never plausible that he would take a deal elsewhere.

    Kobe’s not the only or the best example of how talent is expensive. The raptors locked up 50mil in Hedo Turkoglu and that hasn’t panned out. Vince Carter is getting max money and has been worse than Manu in every way you can measure it this year.

    Heck didn’t Marcin Gortat get a 40mil deal this summer? You want to tell me he’s more of an impact over the next three years than Manu is? That’s the kind of player you’d be able to attract with the money you saved by letting Manu walk. A guy like Camby will demand either way more money or more years on his contract.

    Haywood, Gortat, Dalembert – these are impact guys but I can’t see how ‘trading’ Manu for one of them is anything but one step forward, two steps back, and a leap of faith that they’ll work in the system that flourished with Ginobili.

  • Jim Henderson

    Hobson13
    April 7th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Thanks for your rational and thoughtful post. That said, I’m sure you realize that you didn’t have an answer for the missing TALL front line guy. That is the most critical point I made, yet nobody wants to talk about it, other than offering pie in the sky dreams of signing Splitter. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not criticizing you here, but this omission is going to bite us in the pants unless we soon confront it as a fan base, and as a franchise.

    As I said, I hope the FO has something up there sleeve. And to be honest, I wouldn’t put it past them. So I’m not hopeless here, just baffled, concerned, and experiencing a bit of a “bitter-sweet” moment, because I very much appreciate what Manu has done for our team over the years.

  • rcast1986

    Read this on ESPN in class and almost shouted out loud and jumped out of my seat in excitement.

  • Tyler

    Jim –

    Even if we signed Manu to a deal starting @ $8M per, we’d be over the cap next year and only able to offer essentially the MLE to any potential FA’s. Just because this deal starts at 12-13M doesn’t change anything in regards for next season (barring moves this summer of course).

    This deal wasn’t just about basketball either. Spurredon touched on it – this was just as much as about business as anything. I know 3 business owners in SA that have been waiting to see what happens w/ Manu before they renew for next year. They’re thinking was this: if he doesn’t resign, why would I want to pony up for an entire season of floor seats, when I could just buy individual tickets to the games I want to see? This deal, done now, should bring in a wave of season ticket renewals. That’s $ in the organization’s pocket now, instead of waiting until the summer. PV > FV for you finance geeks.

  • Jim Henderson

    Mike3
    April 7th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Solid points, Mike. Nice post!

  • Jim Henderson

    Mike3
    April 7th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Sorry, Mike, but in my view you’re simply far undervaluing Dalembert AND Iggy.

  • David G

    After reviewing the previous comments on this thread, I’ll provide a list of declarative statements, or what I consider common myths held by many. Granted, the list is not nearly as funny as Letterman’s top ten, but here it goes:

    (1) Don’t really care that much if as a “team” we win a title in the next few years as long as we can watch Manu play.

    -Do Spurs fan want another to see another Title come to town? Yes. Do the Spurs fans want to watch Ginobili play for 82 games on their favorite team? Yes, but they’re not Mutually Exclusive

    (2) Think we can win a title by holding onto, at all costs, an aging and declining core (‘big three”).

    -You’re twisting around the truth a little. “Holding onto at all costs” but the only real alternative would be to let Manu walk away for nothing at the end of the season. So yes they’re keeping Manu at a cost, but the alternative of getting nothing for him seems like a poor option.

    (3) Completely under-estimate how CRITICAL it is to have a TALL and talented enough front line to effectively defend the rim, and what it entails to acquire that key player that we are missing.

    -How many other teams desperately want a “tall and talented” front court player? All of them except the Lakers maybe? How would you propose the Spurs get one of those rare players? They almost never hit free agency (best Free Agent class in history has three good bigs Boozer, Bosh, Amare and none of them qualify at “defending the rim”), are hardly ever traded, and are usually picked at the very top of the draft, usually much higher than they should based on their amateur production (see Thabeet, Hasheem)

    (4) Prefer to come up with all sorts of illogical rationalizations for holding on to the “big three”, to keep the nostalgic fan in us alive. Apparently, hopes for a repeat of the “glory” years die hard.

    -I think we’ve all come to the realization that the big three being the favorites to win the title every year is gone. But what would you propose the Spurs do? Could they get any where close to equal value in a trade for Duncan, Parker, or Ginobili? I know the answer but do you?

    (5) A belief that if we don’t want RJ come trade deadline next year, somehow, someone else is going to gladly give us something really good in return.

    -The Rockets got two first round picks, both of which are potential lottery picks, and 2009 lottery pick Jordan Hill for a large expiring contract. Heading into a possible lockout the Spurs could get something of value for Jefferson. Would it equal the treasure chest the Rockets got? Probably not, but it could be something positive.

    (6) An elevation to god-like status of an aging, albeit, special player.

    -God like? He’s a top 10 player when healthy. And arguably the most exciting player to watch in the NBA. Nobody here doesn’t think he’s getting long in the tooth. (double negative!)

    (7) Taking undue comfort in the remote chance of signing Spitter.

    -Maybe I’m wrong but IMO most of the Spurs fans on this site are nervously hopeful that Tiago comes over, but nobody is taking his arrival like its certainty.

    (8) A refusal to go into any depth about what our options are for signing the TALL, shot-blocking, defender in the paint that we simply MUST have to realistically compete for a title over the next few years.

    How would the Spurs sign someone like that? Even if the Spurs let Manu go they don’t have cap space. And what free agent wants to play in San Antonio? The only FA’s that have shown real willingness to sing in SA are the aging vets who want to win. If the Spurs let Manu walk they don’t make the playoffs next year and you lose you’re only selling point. Again how many “tall, shot-blocking” free agents every hit the open market? Shaq did. Ben Wallace did but that didn’t work out well. It hardly ever happens and those guys have their choice of all 32 teams in the NBA. The Spurs can’t compete against markets like New York, LA, Miami, Houston, Brooklyn, Phoenix, etc…

    (9) Blowing out of proportion the meaning of our success (and Manu’s) during the last few weeks in terms of what it says about our title aspirations for this year.

    -You’re wrong here. The recent level of success is what the Spurs are capable of when they’re relatively healthy. Will they be healthy for the next two months. If I had to bet my life…no, but if they stay healthy they’re right there with the Magic and Cavs, and Lakers if Bynum isn’t healthy.

    (10) Dismissing cap space as if it’s entirely meaningless.

    -It isn’t meaningless, but cap space is really overrated. Having tons of cap space never works out. I can’t think of any cap space clearing teams where it worked out well. The most glaring example (and I believe the only team) to sign two Max FA’s in one offseason was the Orlando Magic with Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady.

  • http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5064686&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter grego
  • Jason Roberts

    Doesn’t this all but preclude the Spurs signing Splitter? With what are they going to sign him? I think it shows the Spurs are going to find a big man in the draft, perhaps Cole Aldrich or Dexter Pittman.

  • Greyberger

    RealGM’s ‘grading’ of the sides:

    http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/65823/20100407/grading_the_deal_ginobili_to_sign_$40m_extension/

    “he Spurs undoubtedly will be overpaying a little bit in the third year of his extension when he’s 35, but I think they will rest a little easier knowing they had him at below market value for the majority of his career. If Ginobili would have become a free agent, a desperate team with cap space could have offered him a balloon payment for 2010-11, leaving the Spurs completely vulnerable since they already are in cap hell. The 10-11 season will be as tax-laden as this season is with the San Antonio payroll just under $80M, but at least they will have Richard Jefferson coming off the books in the 2011 summer when Tony Parker becomes a free agent.

  • http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5064686&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter grego

    @Jason,

    The MLE. You always have the MLE to offer, even if you are over the cap. The LLE is the bi-annual one.

    Splitter will always be a question on how deep they want to pay into luxury tax. I think the post season will determine what they are willing to pay next season.

    They also will likely backload Manu’s contract so it’s not as bad for his first year.

  • Hobson13

    Jim Henderson
    April 7th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    “That said, I’m sure you realize that you didn’t have an answer for the missing TALL front line guy”

    Jim, I was trying to imply that we need to trade Parker for a decent big. This can come in several forms. We can trade Parker straight up for a guy like Al Jefferson or your man Samuel Dalembert (you and I have disagreed about this, but both would be intriguing as a Spur.) Or it is possible that we can wait and trade Parker for a backup PG and maybe a top 5 draft pick so we could get the likes of a Demarcus Cousins. I don’t particularly have a difinitive answer as to exactly who we should get. We are only in April and many chips will fall between now and the summer so I would rather just “keep my powder dry” until then.

    Also, I’m just not sure about Tiago Splitter. Some like you say he’s not coming over. Then I’ve heard interviews from RC Buford who act optimistic about the situation. The fact remains that there’s a chance Splitter might come over. Now whether that chance is 80% or 8% I simply don’t know at this point, but to me, a Parker trade makes a world of sense.

  • David G

    @Hobson13 Demarcus Cousins! Samuel Dalembert! Deer God! You must not watch basketball.

  • Hobson13

    David G
    April 7th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
    “@Hobson13 Demarcus Cousins! Samuel Dalembert! Deer God! You must not watch basketball.”

    As a matter of fact I both watch and play basketball on an almost daily basis. Did you wish to refute my arguments or did you simply have a tough day at work. We were discussing our need for another big alongside Duncan. Please feel free to weigh in with well reasoned suggestions/ counter arguments.

  • Matthew

    This HAD to be done. If the Spurs did not take care of Manu, the Spurs’ era would truly be over and there would be no more championships for Timmy for sure. Manu would have gotten this kind of offer, if not more, on the open market. The Spurs would not have been able to do much even if they hadn’t resigned Ginobili given the nonexistent cap space we had. Even without resigning him, we still would have only been able to offer another FA, or Tiago Splitter, the MLE. Might as well take advantage of Manu’s Bird rights and keep him in SA where he belongs. Besides, Jefferson’s expiring contract possibly spells major cap relief for the Spurs next season, unless teams are scared away by the impending lockout possibilities for 2011-12.

  • BigWhit

    @ IT Guy

    !!vaya vaya espuelas!!

  • Jim Henderson

    Mike3
    April 7th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Sorry, Mike, but in my view you’re simply far undervaluing Dalembert AND Iggy.

    Tim
    April 7th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Fair enough, Tim, but we needed another 7 footer then, and we need another 7 footer now. And Duncan very well could of had some influence on the Manu signing, but if he did, as arguably the best PF of all-time, he may be over-estimating the gas he has left in his tank. While understandable, it could be a mistake in terms of winning another title before he’s done. Unless, as I’ve said, the FO has a 7 footer under their sleeve. We’ll see.

    bduran
    April 7th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Number one, I in no way “undervalue” Manu. On the contrary, many on here “overvalue” him to the point of idol worship.

    “Also, 1) isn’t a myth ( or commonly held, I want Manu to stay no matter what, however, I do care about championships) it’s an opinion you are free to disagree with.”

    I did not say the list was comprised of ALL myths. I said the list will consist of “declarative statements” and/or commonly held “myths”. And yes, “declarative statements” can be opinions that one is “free to disagree with”.

    Greyberger
    April 7th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    “Kobe getting 30M per doesn’t justify paying manu 13M, but it does put it in some context.”

    That is true, and a fair point.

    “Heck didn’t Marcin Gortat get a 40mil deal this summer? You want to tell me he’s more of an impact over the next three years than Manu is? That’s the kind of player you’d be able to attract with the money you saved by letting Manu walk. A guy like Camby will demand either way more money or more years on his contract.”

    That is unlikely, at age 37.

    Tyler
    April 7th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Quite frankly, I understand fully the “Manu” ticket sale angle, and all the other intangibles Manu brings to the table. That said, what makes a franchise the most money is suiting up the best value every night for a team that is “truly a perennial contender”. In my view, that will not happen again without making the best trade, or forking up the appropriate dollars for the “big” that we need to go alongside an aging Tim Duncan. Also, if the “cap” is not an issue in signing Manu, let’s hope mister deep-pockets-Holt can also do what’s necessary to get us that TALL guy that could extend the productive years left in Duncan’s career.

    I’ll leave you all with a brief closing comment:

    In my estimation, a common theme on here is “short-term” thinking that offers a bit more “security” that we’ll remain modestly competitive for a few more years, while unwittingly potentially foreclosing on getting to the pinnacle again, perhaps more than once, in the years ahead. Take a moment to think about that. Thanks for the respectful comments, outside of “VP of Common Sense”.

  • Jim Henderson

    Hobson13
    April 7th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Fair points. Nice job.

  • David G

    @Hobson13

    You’re talking about the same Cousins who played at Kentucky right?

    And you’re talking about the same Dalembert that the 76ers have desperately tried to give away for years? Same guy right?

  • junierizzle

    @JIm Henderson

    You say you want a “block-buster trade” that would bring Iggy and Dalembert.

    First of all they are decent players, but I wouldn’t call them superstars. And you need superstars to win championships. MANU and TD and TP are superstars. You have to ride them until the wheels fall off.

    As far as needing “interior defense” TD and MCDEEZY have been doing great lately. The entire team is looking great on D. During this “MANU Stretch” they are holding teams to under or around 90 points.

    ALso, I forget who wrote it but, I agree. I don’t think you truly understand how good MANU is.

    And yes, if KOBE at a year younger than MANU can get 8o mill then MANU deserves 40 mill.

    Manu has helped win 3 rings
    Kobe has helped win 4 rings

    I agree both players will decline once these contracts are up. Both have basically been paid for what they have done.

  • VP of Common Sense

    @ Jim Henderson,

    Thank God you don’t own or run the Spurs.

    You would let Manu walk, somehow trade for Iggy & Dalembert (which would mean moving Parker & Jefferson), and alienate the entire Spurs fanbase.

    What makes you think your plan guarentees long term success?

    Are Iggy & Dalembert superstars? I think not.

    The NBA is not a fantasy league. Great teams win championships. Great teams with great “team players” which is exactly what are Big 3 are.

  • VP of Common Sense

    * the Big 3 are.

  • pablo

    for all those that are arguing that Manu’s signing has doomed our chances to add a BIG man, remember that the 200-10 salary cap was $57.7 million. not sure what it will be next year, but let’s just assume it stays the same. our salary on the books for next year would be $55.75 million for only 8 players (assuming Spurs pick up option on Alonzo Gee and Malik Hairston, plus Parker, Duncan, Hill, Blair, McDyess, and RJ). So even if you would get 4 minimum players there would be no way to avoid going over the tax. We would have NO salary cap to throw at a BIG MAN. The only option would have been our mid-level exception (don’t know what values are, but I believe $5 million). So our roster would be Parker, Hill, Gee, Hairston, Duncan, Blair, McDyess, RJ, $5 million BIG MAN signee, and minimum value players. That is not a competitive roster.

    Manu’s signing does mean that the Spurs will be over the cap, but at least they still have the flexibility to sign a big man to add to a competitive team. It did not matter whether Manu signed for $1 million or $13 million a year- his salary would have not impacted Spurs availability in free agency outside mid-level exception.

    Sources below:
    “The National Basketball Association today announced that the Salary Cap for the 2009-10 season will be $57.7 million. The tax level for the 2009-10 season has been set at $69.92 million. Any team whose team salary exceeds that figure will pay a $1 tax for each $1 by which it exceeds $69.92 million.”
    (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/07/07/salarycap.ap/index.html)

    http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm

  • David

    shhh, don’t jinx it

  • ds

    It’s done! (I think)

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5064686

    “The San Antonio Spurs and guard Manu Ginobili have agreed to a three-year extension worth $38.9 million, a league source confirmed Wednesday.”

  • ds

    pffft

    old news it seems

  • Heavy Duty

    They can’t sign on the dotted line fast enough, as far as i’m concerned. This is a great deal for the spurs and the fans. Manu is easily worth more over 3 years. Had the spurs not pre-empted the competition, most of the commenters on here would have been shocked at the amount of money thrown at Manu. It would have been much more expensive for Peter Holt to sign Manu over the summer. What, you don’t think Mr. Holt read that New York Post article on Manu? Or the countless other articles in the cloud putting Manu in the top 5 free agents.

    To me, Manu’s age matters not. As it is in life, in the NBA certain players age gracefully. Continuing to be highly effective in their later years. Manu isn’t the greatest athlete in the NBA, he isn’t even the best athlete on the spurs. But he does posess the highest basketball IQ in the game today. Do you really think Manu is going to have a hard time running the pick and roll at the age of 35? In the NBA your jumper gets better as you get older.

    We have the luxury of watching the best 2 guard in spurs history (yeah i said it, who don’t like it?;) for 3 more years. That’s pretty badass if you ask me papa!

  • pablo

    why is my previous comment “awaiting confirmation?”

    it’s good stuff in response to J. Henderson’s comments

  • pablo

    for all those that are arguing that Manu’s signing has doomed our chances to add a BIG man, remember that the 200-10 salary cap was $57.7 million. not sure what it will be next year, but let’s just assume it stays the same. our salary on the books for next year would be $55.75 million for only 8 players (assuming Spurs pick up option on Alonzo Gee and Malik Hairston, plus Parker, Duncan, Hill, Blair, McDyess, and RJ). So even if you would get 4 minimum players there would be no way to avoid going over the tax. We would have NO salary cap to throw at a BIG MAN. The only option would have been our mid-level exception (don’t know what values are, but I believe $5 million). So our roster would be Parker, Hill, Gee, Hairston, Duncan, Blair, McDyess, RJ, $5 million BIG MAN signee, and minimum value players. That is not a competitive roster.

    Manu’s signing does mean that the Spurs will be over the cap, but at least they still have the flexibility to sign a big man to add to a competitive team. It did not matter whether Manu signed for $1 million or $13 million a year- his salary would have not impacted Spurs availability in free agency outside mid-level exception.

  • pablo

    part II

    Sources below:
    “The National Basketball Association today announced that the Salary Cap for the 2009-10 season will be $57.7 million. The tax level for the 2009-10 season has been set at $69.92 million. Any team whose team salary exceeds that figure will pay a $1 tax for each $1 by which it exceeds $69.92 million.”
    (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/07/07/salarycap.ap/index.html)

    http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm

  • Gary

    Im more than happy for the guy !!!

    That’s one 30+ old guy that is worth this kind of money… he’s no Hedo Turkoglu!

  • ThatBigGuy

    I hope the extension is incentive laden and loaded up front. I’d say incentives for games or minutes played would be fair for both the team and Manu. Perhaps it can be similar to Blair’s, where the first 2 years are guaranteed and the 3rd is fully unguaranteed.

    I understand how good Manu can be WHEN HEALTHY, but he hasn’t been fully healthy for any extended period in 2 years. I’ll reserve complete judgement on this contract rumor until the terms are released. Until then, I’ll remain 60% nervous, 40% optimistic.

  • http://spursunderground.blogspot.com/ b.diddy

    I think the comparisons to Kobe’s deal miss the point. The real comparison should be to Tony Parker.
    Next year TP is slated to make around $13.5Mil, Manu’s new deal pretty much makes the two equal there, and I think that every single Spurs fan would argue that the value of #9 and #20 to the Spurs is about equal.

    The real travesty is RJ’s $15mil.

  • http://spursunderground.blogspot.com/ b.diddy

    As for the tall guy the Spurs “need”, (In quotes because of the debate centered on that topic) This year the Spurs figure to draft higher than they have in a great many years.
    I know that the range of 18-25 isn’t typically home to “franchise changing” players, however Rajon Rondo went 21st, Kevin Martin 26th, Kendrick Perkins 27th, Tayshaun Prince 23rd, Brendan Haywood 20th, and Gerald Wallace 25th. Anyone one of those players would be a welcome addition to this roster, and I have faith the something similar can happen this season also.

    p.s. I won’t bother to mention Manu was drafted 57th, Blair 37th, George Hill 26th, and 28th.

  • http://spursunderground.blogspot.com/ b.diddy

    Tony parker is the missing name in that post script

  • David G

    “Manu’s signing does mean that the Spurs will be over the cap, but at least they still have the flexibility to sign a big man to add to a competitive team. It did not matter whether Manu signed for $1 million or $13 million a year- his salary would have not impacted Spurs availability in free agency outside mid-level exception.”

    Thank you…I think a lot of people out there don’t understand how the salary cap works. This guy Jim wants Manu to walk and then trade for Iggy and Dalembert. Only way that would work is to give up Parker and Jefferson. Now Mr Jim obviously thinks Dalembert and Iggy are quite good so I don’t know how he would explain that the 76ers are one of the worst teams in the league.

    Jims next years Spurs

    Dalembert
    Duncan
    Harriston
    Iggy
    Hill

    That team doesn’t crack 40 wins in the West and they struggle to score 80 points per night.

  • junierizzle

    Technically MANU has been healthy all this season, minus a handful of games. His problem was mainly mental as he has stated.

    Plus, injuries are part of the game. No one can guarantee Manu WILL get seriously hurt again. And no one can guarantee that he WILL NOT get seriously hurt again.

    @DAVID G. Nicely put. I especially like how you point out the fact that IGGY and DBERT together are on one of the worst teams in the league.

  • Jim Henderson

    David G
    April 7th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Thanks for the effort in responding to my post. I quote you below, and then provide my response.

    “-Do Spurs fan want another to see another Title come to town? Yes. Do the Spurs fans want to watch Ginobili play for 82 games on their favorite team? Yes, but they’re not Mutually Exclusive.”

    Of course they’re not “mutually exclusive”, but they are not necessarily “mutually inclusive” either, despite what many on this blog imply. I think it’s less likely that we get a title as currently constructed, than if we we were to parlay Manu’s “current” value for the right pieces that are younger and could help preserve the franchise’s value over a longer period of time.

    “-You’re twisting around the truth a little. “Holding onto at all costs” but the only real alternative would be to let Manu walk away for nothing at the end of the season. So yes they’re keeping Manu at a cost, but the alternative of getting nothing for him seems like a poor option.”

    I’m not twisting the truth. The Spurs just agreed to hold onto a 33 year old excellent player with physical durability issues by paying him pretty close to “top dollar” in relation to his free market value. And I was never proposing getting nothing for him. I’ve always wanted to see if we could get a sign & trade deal done for him. That’s far from nothing.

    “-How many other teams desperately want a “tall and talented” front court player? All of them except the Lakers maybe? How would you propose the Spurs get one of those rare players? They almost never hit free agency (best Free Agent class in history has three good bigs Boozer, Bosh, Amare and none of them qualify at “defending the rim”), are hardly ever traded, and are usually picked at the very top of the draft, usually much higher than they should based on their amateur production (see Thabeet, Hasheem)”

    I’ve made a number of suggestions for “bigs” that we should seriously consider going after, either by trade or through free agency. We don’t really need “superstar” scoring type “bigs” (e.g. Bosh). Our system is set-up to win with defense. And actually, most teams actually don’t need a TALL center nearly as desperately as we do. Thus guys like Camby (at his age), Haywood, Dampier, etc. are all realistic options to pursue if we allot a decent amount of money to make a serious run at them. I’m not sure how we still have that flexibility with the size of the Manu contract. Ask Peter Holt, and the NBA offices.

    “-I think we’ve all come to the realization that the big three being the favorites to win the title every year is gone. But what would you propose the Spurs do? Could they get any where close to equal value in a trade for Duncan, Parker, or Ginobili? I know the answer but do you?”

    For one thing, you don’t trade Duncan. At his age he’s not as valuable of a trade piece with his salary. Plus, you just don’t trade Duncan. I’ve already made a trade proposal involving Parker & Ginobli, with an effort to look at our future, not just our present. I’m not going to go through it all right now. Perhaps you can find it scattered throughout my posts on here over the past several weeks. I wouldn’t bother though if I were you, I can tell you wouldn’t understand the benefits of the trade.

    “-The Rockets got two first round picks, both of which are potential lottery picks, and 2009 lottery pick Jordan Hill for a large expiring contract. Heading into a possible lockout the Spurs could get something of value for Jefferson. Would it equal the treasure chest the Rockets got? Probably not, but it could be something positive.”

    The Rockets gave up a soon to be dominant power forward in the NBA, Carl Landry. The Kings clearly have him in their long-term plans, and they’re smart to do so.

    “-Maybe I’m wrong but IMO most of the Spurs fans on this site are nervously hopeful that Tiago comes over, but nobody is taking his arrival like its certainty. ”

    Maybe so, but if that’s the case, there certainly seems to be an ocean full of complacency on here about looking at ALL the other options, should we not be able to sign Splitter.

    “Again how many “tall, shot-blocking” free agents every hit the open market? Shaq did. Ben Wallace did but that didn’t work out well. It hardly ever happens and those guys have their choice of all 32 teams in the NBA. The Spurs can’t compete against markets like New York, LA, Miami, Houston, Brooklyn, Phoenix, etc…”

    I already mentioned a few guys that could be enough to help Duncan defend in the paint, and there are several others that are probably worthy of consideration.

    “If I had to bet my life…no, but if they stay healthy they’re right there with the Magic and Cavs, and Lakers if Bynum isn’t healthy.”

    Oh yeah, what would you say are the odds of us beating these teams you mentioned in a 7-game series? It sounds like you think that it’s like, 3/2, or something? Let’s be serious, all things being equal health-wise, we’re NO better than a 5/1 shot against any of those teams.

    “-It isn’t meaningless, but cap space is really overrated. Having tons of cap space never works out. I can’t think of any cap space clearing teams where it worked out well. The most glaring example (and I believe the only team) to sign two Max FA’s in one offseason was the Orlando Magic with Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady.”

    You entirely missed my point. Below is my explanation of this issue in response to Jesse Blanchard.

    This is what Jesse asked:

    ““The economy is the same, and expiring contracts are just as valuable. How do you think any of the big deals were done last summer?”

    And this was the pertinent part of my response:

    “By teams just wanting to engage in dumping salary for the sake of clearing cap space. That strategy is for “loser” type franchises (e.g., Wizards), or playoff contenders looking to get rid of players that just don’t fit into there long-term plans for what often turns out to be a short-term fix.”

  • BayAreaSpursFan

    YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Manu we Love You!!!!!!!!!!

  • Hobson13

    David G
    April 7th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
    “You’re talking about the same Cousins who played at Kentucky right?

    And you’re talking about the same Dalembert that the 76ers have desperately tried to give away for years? Same guy right?”

    David, just to be clear, Samuel Dalembert would not be my first choice to put next to Duncan. Although he is a good shotblocker and rebounder, I’m not particularly sold on him. Other people on this chat besides myself seem to be a firm supporter of Dalembert. However, if Parker is traded (and this is all hypothetical) I would rather trade an All star for an All star or Tony Parker for Al Jefferson. Would Minny go for it? Its possible since they have been shopping him all season.

    Secondly, I think we are talking about the same Demarcus Cousins. The one I am speaking of is 6’11” 260 lbs, has a great perimeter shot, and a huge wingspan. That Demarcus Cousins is also from Kentucky and expected to be a top 5 draft pick and some have compared him to Al Jefferson (Chad Ford in a recent article). Would he be raw coming out of college? Of course. Could he learn a TON from Duncan and be a force on the Spurs front line? Absolutely.

  • Jim Henderson

    David G
    April 7th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    “Jims next years Spurs

    Dalembert
    Duncan
    Harriston
    Iggy
    Hill

    That team doesn’t crack 40 wins in the West and they struggle to score 80 points per night.”

    No. My team would be:

    Hill
    Iggy
    RJ
    Duncan
    Dalembert

    And that team would win 50 games, no question. We might score a little less (but way over 80!), but we’d give up less, and our score differential would improve. One these days guys on here will wake up and remember that DEFENSE wins championships.

    junierizzle
    April 7th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    “@DAVID G. Nicely put. I especially like how you point out the fact that IGGY and DBERT together are on one of the worst teams in the league.”

    And I suppose before KG left the 32-50 T-Wolves to win a title with the Celts he wasn’t that good — just because he was on a poor team. Please refrain from giving nonsensical rationalizations for dismissing Iggy & Dalembert’s talent.

  • Joe

    Regarding the prospects of picking up Splitter this season, I’m inclined to believe it’s in his best interests to come over this summer if he ever wants to play in the NBA. This will be his last chance to sign a contract under the current CBA, and it sounds like mid-level $ at the max number of years could end up being far better than what he would make under the new CBA, even if it means sitting out a whole year for a work stoppage here.

    Under the same rationale (but unrelated to the Spurs), I would expect to see a lot of FA signings from Europe this summer, including Josh Childress coming back even if it means taking mid-level money to stay in Atlanta.