Detroit Pistons 109, San Antonio Spurs 101

@Araz

Thank you!

Dear Jim Henderson,

No one commented on the substance of your post because no one read that far! I’ve written some long posts, but all of it was new material focusing on new topics, not copy and pasted from other threads. All I’m saying is bring something new. Don’t make me scroll through 100 lines of old material, then make me cross reference old threads to determine what is old, and then have me sort through the new post to filter and process your new ideas. Eventually everyone will scan over your posts.

Sincerely,
ThatBigGuy

Moving on…

Pop is not the problem. Ultimately, the players determine the outcome of the game. Concerning small ball, I’d be willing to bet that the players are on board. If you think the players don’t have a say in this, you’re dead wrong. A team consists of the waterboy, AT, 12th man, HOF’er, assistant and head coach. A true team is a democracy, not a tyranny. The Spurs are a true team, so game plans are discussed during film sessions, in practice, and in shoot-arounds. This happens on the collegiate level, and it damn sure happens on the NBA level. The players just aren’t converting the game plan into success.

It’s the players, guys, the players.

Wow. It’s past the trade deadline, there are still folks talking about the “woulda, coulda”s of what the spurs should’ve done…people just deal with it…sure the Mavs look better with Haywood in the lineup, but then again a team like the Cavs who are a superior team, don’t look as gelled with Jamison~as it a slow progress. This FO did not make a move for one simple reason: The puzzle they currently have isn’t solved just yet, and by adding in more pieces would just create that much more of a mess. Management is confident with the players they have. They feel they can still win with this team. I, for one, am in complete support here…not just as a blind-spurs fan, but b/c if you really see the talent we have on this team, we should definitely be among the elite in the league—esp. since we run a system that’s been proven to be successful for many years.

This is not Pop’s fault, nor the FO. We can’t really point the finger at anyone until the season’s over. And, I really can’t stand ‘fans’ who think it’s all about a one shot, quick remedy cure for all. It’s exactly like jumping out the window as soon as you smell smoke. C’mon folks, let’s be real here. We have talent and experience, there’s no question about that. It’s just about finding that right mixture that’ll be the potion to our success. Maybe it’s the lack of trust players have for one another, or maybe it’s a dealing of confidence issues, who knows. But, the team’s gonna figure it out for themselves b/c if they don’t, then they’ll be at home watching the playoffs. The season’s far from over, for us to even be think’n about the next one. This team was constructed to win NOW. And, it’s definitely there. People just need to have faith in the organization, that’s been one of the best in league history.

@ agutierrez - are you seriously using a one game sample size to compliment Dallas? They were at home, vs Indiana without Granger.

If one game is evidence, how do you explain the Spurs without TD or TP beating Dallas? RJ had a +9 that game. So much good that proved to be.

The article was crappy writing but made valid points. Pop is overrated. You have a bunch of homers on here giving him credit when we win titles, but blaming players when we get the Ls?

Pop chooses his team, his strategy, who plays, etc. If he is dumb enough to see that what he’s doing isnt working and he keeps doing it then its on him.

Anyone could have won rings with the teams he won with.

McD was a horrible pickup.

Ive been a fan for 25+ years just because I dont buy into some dumbass coach doesnt make me less of a fan.

The players we have now arent suited for his system. Get new players or a new system. He’s the teacher and shouldnt be making excuses for not being able to teach basketball.

If I teach reading, and Ive got kids in my class who cant read, I dont continually try to make them learn the same way hen they obviously dont understand. That would make me a shitty teacher.

Same principles apply.

Tyler-

I realize that, but demanding trades and attacking the coach, F.O. and at every opportunity seems a little “unfanlike”… Don’t you think?

Araz -

Uncalled for? Maybe. “Unfanlike?” Not necessarily. Imagine if you had been a fan of the NY Knicks the past decade…..

Trade TP - McDyess used to be a beast when he was younger. Before he had knee problems, he was one of the best athletes in the league. From 96-97 to 00-01 he was pretty good. Career #’s are in McDyess’ favor but yes, Gooden is having a better year it appears (although McDyess has come on lately).

Spurred On: actually I’m using a four game sample. The Mavs are undefeated with their new lineup.

Araz -

Make no mistake - Even though I disagree with some, I, along with majority of people on this board support the guys who wear the silver and black thru thick and thin. We want nothing more than for them to succeed. I cannot even fathom the thought of jumping ship. But blindly accepting the decisions of anyone in the organization does no one any good, the organization included. I’d say one of the worst thing for the Spurs would be to have a bunch of yes-men for fans. If that were the case, we’d accept the status quo, be content with a so-so season. Fortunately, that’s not the case - we expect more (as we should). And if we don’t get it, it’s fans’ job to pressure the organization into action. Where in there did I stop becoming a Spurs’ fan?

Turn the situation around - If you worked for a company, would you blindly support a CEO/board who makes terrible decisions and drives the co. into the ground just because “they run the team?” Of course not! But that’s essentially what you’re saying when you said you would support everything the Knicks do simply because they run the team.

Tyler

I’m not saying to blindly accept decisions, I’m speaking to those who want to make dramatic changes just because we are struggling a little. Sometimes you have to trust your team to do what’s right, and seeing the spurs success…. They atleast desrve that. Fans have their voice and that’s fine but if something has already been done that you don’t agree with, just move on, and root for your team.

lets all understand one thing the spurs suck. they have done very little to improve their team over the last 4 yrs they keep signing guys that are way pass their prime. the RJ signing was a huge joke all my spur buddies were talking about how RJ was a HUGE move for the spurs.
I told them all RJ sucks! he did nothing in the olympics, he was slightly above avg w/the nets because of one reason KIDD 7 w/the bucks well that team is actually worst then the spurs & if you shoot 30 times a game your going to be the leading scorer on that team. put on a team w/my 7,5 and 3 yr old grandkids guess what I will be the leading scorer.
Another thing I have never like pop he’s not a good coach he happen to coach a team that got the big 3. barry switzer wasnt a good coach he happen to get a great cowboy team that he ran into the ground. spurs suck!

@ Trade TP

First of all, let’s stop making ASSUMPTIONS about what I think, and stop putting words in my mouth. That’s a good place to start.

In reference to your points 1, 2 & 3 above:

1.) This statement calls for complete and utter speculation, with no substance to back it up. It is a statement that is impossible to prove or disprove. Yeah, and a handful of coaches in the league could have won as much with Jordan, Bryant, & Shaq as Jackson. I doubt it, but hell, nobody can disprove it so it’s effective to take Jackson down a peg. And …. it’s ridiculous.

2.) No I’ve NEVER given Pop credit for drafting players. Others may have; I haven’t. He get’s some credit, but I don’t emphasize his role in bad or good player acquisitions because it’s clearly a collaborative effort. I focus on how Pop performs is main role — coaching. And that he does with the best of them, even in the midst of a very disappointing season thus far.

3.) First, your analogy was comparing Pops teaching of highly paid, fully developed ADULTS with a teacher helping a KID learn in school. IT IS A FAULTY ANALOGY (as explained above), and you’ve provided no evidence to suggest otherwise. Second, I have not contradicted myself. Pop has not abused the “new players” excuse (unless you care to show me evidence to the contrary). When questioned earlier in the season by the media, he simply offered it as an honest explanation for the Spurs struggles early on. If this “excuse” appears to linger, fault the media, who simply don’t want to be honest about the travails of a revered franchise & perennial contender: THE PLAYERS ARE BEING BABIES ABOUT THEIR OWN PERFORMANCE & LOOKING FOR A SCAPEGOAT, just like many people on this blog.

Finally, yours and others’ scapegoating of Pop for your own frustrations is getting nauseating. And, you’re making up quotes purportedly by me in your final paragraph; “players win & lose games”, and “pop is the greatest coach because he WINS championships”. I NEVER said these words. However, YOU CAN QUOTE ME ON THIS, players & coaches & the entire organization are, in total, responsible for sustaining a winning franchise (by the way, Spurs selected “franchise” of the decade by the NBA this year), but it is unequivocally the PLAYERS themselves that are by far the MOST responsible for success or failure in a given year. That said, some coaches WITH THE SAME ORGANIZATION & PLAYERS would not win a championship, while a MINORITY of other coaches would. And vice-versa, in a given year, THE SAME COACH could very well win a championship with one set of PLAYERS, but not with another. It’s just that the PLAYERS are MORE (not completely!) RESPONSIBLE for winning championships than the COACH. Pop is one of the greatest coaches of all-time for a variety of reasons (not just for winning championships) that I won’t bother to enumerate at this time.

Trade TP:

Things in life are often not “black & white”, “completely this” or “completely that”. I’m sure you recognize that. Yet, you have a tendency to make your argument in “absolutes”.

For example, you say “jim – you’re whole argument is faulty ……. If the players are the means of success then a coach has ‘absolutely nothing’ to do with their winning or losing.” Did I ever say the players are THE means of success? NO. I said they are simply and INHERENTLY MORE RESPONSIBLE for the team’s success than the coach. That does NOT mean that the coach has NOTHING to do with their winning or losing. Apparently you don’t understand logic. ALL coaches have less influence over their teams success then their players. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE COACH IS NOT IMPORTANT. Compared to other coaches, each of whom have less influence on success than their players do, Popovich is one of the most successful for maximizing the opportunities that a coach can have to influence the outcome, and ultimately win championships.

I’ll give a brief example for you that’s more concrete. My contention (which virtually any paid analyst, coach, or player would agree with) is that players have a LARGER influence on a teams ultimate success than their coach. No one knows what the exact figure is, but for example, to make it concrete for you, let’s guesstimate that the PLAYERS are ultimately 80% responsible for winning a championship, the coach 15%, and other management & staff 5%. Now, one cannot discount that 15% that the coaches have (it is important), it just does not have the WEIGHT or influence that the players’ 80% has. Now, WE MAY DISAGREE on how effectively Pop uses that theoretical 15% compared to other coaches in the ultimate goal of winning championships, but my argument is NOT FAULTY in the way you describe in your first paragraph above.

You say:

“What I disagreed with was Pop claiming his “over 50%” new roster was the problem early on.”

I disagree. There’s nothing wrong with Pop offering that as a possible explanation early on when probed by the media. In fact, this may have indeed been a problem early on. There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging it. I’m sure it was meant simply to give his players confidence that we’ll work through our chemistry issues before long and start playing better. That’s all.

In your final paragraph again you’re inaccurately using “absolutes” to characterize my position and make your argument:

“Again if these were grown adults who need no guidance then why have coaches? And how would any coach be considered “great?”

I didn’t say the adult players needed NO guidance. However, they do need a lot LESS than KIDS. That was my point in critiquing your analogy.

You say:

“To be great you dont just win with the best. But you find ways to win with what youve got.”

I hate to clue you in, but there’s been more talented teams than some of the Spurs title teams that did NOT win a championship. There’s NO question about that. Your assessment is incorrect here.