Dwyer: George Hill is ‘Overrated’

February 1, 2:05 pm — by

It may be temporary, and due to injury, but George Hill is a starting NBA point guard much earlier than anticipated. Not bad for another of the Spurs’ “where did he come from” draft picks.

Because he has improved so much from last season to this one, a lot of expectations have been placed on the IUPUI product by fans. But not everyone has been impressed, as you can read in Kelly Dwyer’s Behind the Box Score from yesterday’s game:

George Hill continues to be overrated, but he played … like George Hill. 17 points on 16 shots, four assists.

Now, Dwyer doesn’t elaborate as this is but a minor point he is making, but for what it’s worth I argue that his statement is a matter of perspective and it brings up a valid talking point: where do you rate George Hill?

I’m not sure who Dwyer believes is overrating Hill, but if he reads through any comments sections you can find a few over-enthused Spurs fans. Like this poor lost soul, who in my last Grizzlies-Spurs preview advocated trading Tony Parker to make room for Hill:

I don’t know what the author is talking about. Please list Hill’s record as a starter. It speaks for itself. Also get a clue about scoring, TP is better at finishing (maybe because he is quicker), but Tony can’t shoot FTs or a 3-pointer. Tony shoots 27% behind the arc, and Hill is in the upper 30s. Tony also turns the ball over more and Jefferson isn’t nearly as effective with TP running the show. Don’t even get me started on the defense.

Or this gem from one of the good folks at Spurstalk.com:

George Hill is looking like a really nice player at this point. another gem by our front office (we knew this before, but it’s becoming crystal clear right now).

i’m starting to wonder if a line-up of Hill, Manu, and RJ is better than if you substituted Parker in for Hill. Hill is obviously the better defender and shooter at this point. he might even be the better passer. i always knew how one-dimensional Parker was, but it’s pretty apparent when you compare him to Hill.

Okay, perhaps some of these posts have more to do with these people’s disdain for Parker than their evaluations of Hill, but there are those among us (Spurs fans) who are talking in terms of Hill being the next Parker or Ginobili find. In short, an All-Star.

If you asked me at the beginning of the season I would have listed Antonio Daniels as a comparable player for Hill. An athletic combo guard who can be a valuable role player due to his defense, shooting and finishing ability but ultimately limited by his lack of creativity with the ball.

With the improvement he has made in such a short time I think Hill is redefining what we view as his ceiling as we speak.

For a late first rounder who was projected to go in the second, I would say he has been a steal. And I think most Spurs fans are over passing up Mario Chalmers for Hill. But since we are talking trade deadline this week, and our objectives remain more in the present than the future, I would ask-how valuable is Hill and is he untouchable?

  • Will

    As the new messiah whose defense is so vastly superior to Parker’s, he sure got brought to school by Billups… I think George Hill is alright and I’ve already said in past comments that his ceiling was probably as an All Star, but there’s still no comparison in my mind between Hill and Parker. If something is underrated here it’s Parker’s defense.

  • ruth bader ginobili

    Right now, he’s a stretch as a starter. Does a lot of pointless dribbling instead of getting into the offensive sets, and doesn’t excel at scoring or passing.

    He’s a great option as a back-up, though, because of his solid defense and shooting, as well as a shot of athleticism. Love having him, but you don’t want to rely on him too much.

    I don’t know about an all-star, but down the road George could definitely start for a championship team.

  • Rye

    Very few players are untouchable (James, Duncan, Bryant and maybe a handful of others at most), so I can’t call Hill that. But in terms of this team, say, trading for Camby or a comparable big or player in general, no chance I’d give up Hill in that type of deal. He and Blair must be kept out of those types of trades at all cost. Expiring contracts, a 1st round pick and even Splitter can all potentially go, but not those two.

    As for a comparable for Hill, I’d say Dooling. Only Hill has a higher upside.

  • Mike T

    Based on his recent play, isn’t Hill capable of being a 17-19 point scorer over the next couple of years if given the chance? If he does that on 46% shooting and 38% from the 3 point line while being able to play the point and the 2-guard, I think that makes for a very valuable young player.

  • BALLHOG

    George Hill is a baller. A post needs to be written about some of the Spurs players, but Hill is not one of them. Ginnobli is inconsistent. As a power Forward, Bonner is not the guy. Cant defend anybody and doesnt rebound. He should be comming off the bench at the 3 spot, if at all. Bogans is not the guy. Finley has always been a balla but father time is on his back. Spurs should have kept 3 guards. Should have kept Scola, Haislip, MensaBonsu, and Bruce Bowen.

    Spurs should be running offense thru McDyess, Blair, and Jefferson along with the big three. Jefferson is not a garbage player. He is accustomed to being in the offense as a 1st or second option. Ratliff and Mahinmi should be playing every night.

    No, George Hill is not the problem…Pop should just play the players that can play and win games. Enough Already!

  • Trade TP

    Once again the author proves ignorance to the situation. If trading TP would result in a viable FC player then why not? Hill wont lose you games. The fact is once TD goes away so will TP. Why not try and build with youth Blair/Hill.

    Or we can keep Parker and watch him win a series being our #1 like last year… oh wait.

  • duaneofly

    For a comparable player I think I could see Hill being like Kirk Hinrich.

    My thoughts on him are that Hill will be a player like Bruce Bowen, every one would take him on their team in a heartbeat, but he’s not a star and doesn’t draw a lot of fan attention.

    I doubt he’d ever be voted onto the All Star team, by fans or coaches. I could see Hill being picked by Stern as a replacement for an injured All Star though, in the future possibly.

  • Anthony McDonald

    I don’t profess to be the smartest basketball mind but Hill is a very good young player. He will be a very good player in the league if he continues to add to his game. He needs to become a better jump shooter…a bit stronger. I do think he can be used in a 3-way backcourt situation (TP, George, and Manu). Of course, Ginobili is on his last legs so we’ll need a true 2 guard there. I guess what i’m seeing is George as a hybrid cross between Vinnie Johnson and Harold Eisley (think 1996-1997).

    TP cannot be traded because he’s the only star that we have that’s actually in his prime. Moreover, he causes our opponents fits.

    Trade Mason and Urban Myth (Ian) and get a true 3 point shooter preferably a SF.

  • Bushka

    Quality young player. Lots of potential. Starting to fulfill that potential this year.

    To think that he can replace Tony Parker right now is hilarious. That some peoples feel for the game of basketball is so superficial astounds me.

  • Trade TP

    Bushka

    The really funny thing will be when we cant trade Manu, TD isnt a force, and we’re stuck with TP who cannot be “the man.”

    Future reference, you like crowe rare?

  • not as good as I once was

    What Some don’t understand is we were lucky to land Duncan. When Duncan is done there is a good chance the Spurs are too. (Being a small market) As long as you have a chance to win with Duncan it would be foolish to get rid of Parker and to start to rebuild, by the time they would be ready Duncan would be done. Some people don’t give Tony enough credit. He has proven he is a winner. When healthy he gives defenses fits driving to the basket. Time after time we have seen him either go in for a layup or pass out on a colapsing defense. What we don’t have is that defensive stopper that we had in Bruce Bowen. Hill is a good addition to the Spurs but like I said before he is not ready to lead a team, if he is ever ready. Some people played a little ball maybe in highschool and they think they know it all. This is thier down fall becuse they think they know more then the next guy they never listen so they never learn.

  • Don Armand

    How dare you clowns diss Tony Parker? Wow, the dude has been the BEST point guard in the league since he got his first ring, he ran thru everybody. Come on they have been OK for the last couple of years but that dude TP has been slicing teams with even with everyone injured(including himself). George Hill is doing just fine, he’s holding his own while he’s learning. Come on, Chauncey is tearing up the entire league right now, Hill was trying to take it to him but I think he will be real good in time. Il tell you what is wrong with this team, Richard Jefferson. What is wrong with that guy, if you know the game, he has been horrible. If he was looking to score 30 a night they might be able to win another ring for Duncan. Like I said just looking to score 30 because then he would at least be in the Mid twenties ppg. Maybe he just sucks now. Ginobili? You can’t diss him either. G and Parker have ankle problems, that is no joke, I been there, they just need to be able to rest until the playoffs at this point of their careers, but thanks to the Spurs bad decisions, their roster depends basically on them and Duncan. Park and Gin need to learn to chilax in the summer. Lose 1 and you have a problem.
    Why arent they letting Ian play? Why did they ever get rid of Stephen Jackson? Why dont they trade Mason or Bonner?Mason and Bonner for Camby, I dont know if it works salary wise but do you get the picture? You will not win a championship with Mcdyess next to Duncan, no disrespect but it is not going to happen. Popovitch doesnt have the knowledge of the game to know that he should give Blair a total green light. I mean start him and play him until he fouls out every night, and let him know your plan. The kid would have some 20 rebound 20 pt games. Do you remember Pop scolding him for scoring in the pre season? Ok, if they didn’t want Michael Finley to run to Dallas and expose the playbook, why didnt they make him an assistant coach?They need a good trade to even have a shot at another ring. Props to Duncan for still being mad effective. RICHARD JEFFERSON IF YOU CAN HEAR ME, IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT. BUT IT IS NOT TOO LATE, WAKE UP!!!!!!!

  • Bushka

    Theres one maybe two players in the baskebtall universe who can win big with nothing outside of minor role players surrounding them.

    Those guys are max contract superstars.

    Tony is a good value contract wise all star, in his prime and one of the top 5 at his position in the league. He is third on the payroll with the spurs with Tim @ $22,000,000 and RJ @ $14,000,000. TP runs $12,600,000 per just ahead of Manu at a shade over $10,000,000.

    Just to be clear on how things run contract wise in the NBA. Not only is TP a solid contract, not cheap but only the third most expensive on the roster and below average for an all star (he is not even in the top 30 Salaries league wide).

    Manu is an expiring, so the odds on him being difficult to trade in the tough financial market that exists today are very slim. He is our best trade asset at present, an expiring contract that can actually play.

    Unless you mean it will be hard to trade him after he is extended/and or a new contract agreement is in place, which is odd because I didn’t realise those kind of figures were available at present. Those numbers will very much determine the trade value of Manu, oh and of course how well he is playing.

    However it all comes back to one salient point, George is not good enough yet to take over. Tony is locked in for 2 seasons, George for three before he gets a qualifying offer. Why the hard on for a trade?

    The spurs are not a poorly run organisation. They don’t do stupid.

    With time on their side and the better part of their guard rotation locked in for the at least the 2 years for under 14 million what earthly reason do they have to advocate trading away the tried, tested, road proven French Kid. What exactly do you expect to bring back with that trade? Another PG?

    You can’t just stop there, because suddenly your down to a guard rotation of Roger Mason Jnr, George Hill, and Manu, with the latter a very good chance of just walking off at seasons end.

    So why roll the dice? If you roll em and George doesn’t work out, if he can’t perform at an All Star level, if he can’t at least fill up the stat sheet in the same manner as TP (I.E 50% shooting 6 or 7 assists and low turnovers for 36 minutes a game) you’ll be eating nothing but crow. Day in Day out and twice on Sundays.

  • Bushka

    And again as notasgoodasioncewas pointed out…As always Duncan is the window.

  • Kaveh

    I think that George Hill is the most over-rated young player i can think about. I still remember a month or so ago, when it seemed like this ENTIRE board was talking about how great Hill was, even relative to Parker. The facts really speak for themselves.

    George Hill’s PER: 13.7
    Parker’s PER: 17.0
    Parker’s peak PER (last year): 23.4
    Average NBA player’s PER: 15

    George Hill is the 1-dimensional player. Believe me, I know since i’ve had Hill on my fantasy team full time for about 1 month. The guy never has any assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, etc. He rarely if ever goes to the free throw line. All he is “good” at is shooting. At least on the offensive side.

    On the defensive side, he is OK, but nothing close to what you guys seem to think.

    Parker on the other hand is a star. When healthy he is a top 3 PG in the league. He tears up defenses as he attacks, attacks and attacks. He gets the opposing team into FOUL trouble, he gets to the line for free points, he attracts attention away from other players so they can attack, etc.

    Parker has “it.” Even playing hurt without his trade mark speed/quickness, Parker is an ABOVE average player while George Hill is a BELOW average player. This is while Parker is injured taking away his best quality, and George Hill is young and perfectly healthy.

    I can’t speak to the future since i don’t know how or even IF Hill will improve. I’m not a psychic. But for now, there is no comparision.

    George Hill is over-rated by Spurs fans. But then again, it seems that every Spur with the exception of Parker is over-rated by Spurs fans. If i have to read another Bonner/Mason/Finley for Bosh trade idea i’m going to gag.

  • grego

    Not untouchable, but you better be getting something nice back if he’s involved in the deal, especially since he has such a small contract.

  • junierizzle

    I love HILL. He isn’t overrated if you say that he is a solid back up.
    I wouldn’t trade TP just because HILL has an upside though.
    Look at the PISTONS. THEY dismantled that team. WHY?? Because they thought Rodney Stuckey was good enough. So they shipped out Billups. Now loook at the PISTONS. Stuckey is nothing more than a solid player. I don’t think he’ll be leading the Pistons to the FINALS anytime soon.

  • Michael

    @Trade TP.

    It would benefit you to spend less time on rhetoric and internet “hoo-a’s” and more time on BASKETBALL. You get yourself so pumped on negativity and fail to realize that you were first to strike. When you enter a discussion with “sucks sucks, wrong, sucks, worthless sucks, trash, trade sux, loser, pathetic” you have to expect someone to call you out for it.

    You’re so obsessed with what’s wrong that you lost perspective on what’s right. In effect, clueless as to what is is actually wrong with the 2010 Spurs. A short burst of “Can’t wait till the Spurs fail, I think you’re opinion is stupid” as a reply doesn’t convince anyone that you know what you’re talking about. We’ve seen your thoughtless rants replied in many different articles and they’re all about how you don’t like TP and how everyone’s thinking wrong except for you. Unfortunately, that’s not how you get people to believe in you. All we believe is that you don’t know how to read an article and offer a thought back.

    You’ve effectively painted yourself as the big downer-more interested in the Spurs aging/failing with the Big 3 in order to call a ‘funny’ “Told-You-So!” than you are in the Spurs winning. Yeah seriously, with all the crap you are writing it would surprise people if you said, “I hope the Spurs succeed this year.” It’s very sad that this franchise went from perennial confidence and success to a year and a half of, “I don’t think this is going to work.” And it’s even more sad that the fans now are sore losers amongst the likes of Phoenix and Los Angeles, and Dallas.

  • Sauce

    mario chalmers is a steady nba point guard, but when you watch him play, he just seems to be that - a steady nba point guard. with hill, you can see a lot of upside and potential.

    for at least this year, hill still needs parker. in a year or two i can see hill being given the rings.

    btw, when hill was drafted, everyone went who? overrated? far from it.

  • Chris L

    Kelly Dwyer is a hack.

  • Bushka

    This entire line of argument is symptomatic of how fans worship and adore youth and potential, and how much personal capital we invest in them.

    We take glimmers of hope extrapolate them out to 36 minutes and rely on them as 82 game sureties.

    If only that was how the game worked.

  • Easy B

    I think if anything the spurs could use another point guard in the rotation to boost our playoff run…we want Hill to be our lockdown defender, but unless you are Jordan, you can’t be that from the point guard position. A nice, steady, veteran, 3pt shooting point guard who could pick up the offense quickly seems like the most likely pickup the spurs make before the deadline(or through waivers)…this allows Hill to be like a miniature Pippen in the playoffs wreaking havoc on the defensive end, and leading the break with less emphasis on having to run the offense. His game personality is still maturing and like Blair is most effective with more singularly defined assignments(shut down opp scorer, hit spot up shots), which seems to be more appropriate for him at this stage of his career.
    Thinking about this also makes me wonder if having another pure backup point might help Ginobili’s game too….less distribution, more slashing.
    You are starting to see the playoff rotation come together recently - Bonner and Blair making way for Mcdyess as he plays his way into the season and starting lineup…….If the spurs got another point they could theoretically start Hill situationally as a bowen prototype at the 2 spot, while Manu plays the 2 off the bench and can be a distributor/creator naturally, rather than out of necessity. Mason and Bonner become our spot up shooters, Blair is the energy guy, and with a purer point guard we can accomodate Ratliff a few more minutes. This looks somewhat like a spurs blueprint, no?

  • Trade TP

    Mike- I havent lost sight on what is right, I just havent seen much in the past two years. I actually am positive about Hill’s play. The only negative thing I have said is about Parker.

    Someone expressed a point about PER. Tony is 15th PG (ranked by Hollinger) in the NBA. Do I expect him to get exceptionally better next year. No. I expect him to stay steady (with his #s from last year) at BEST. As TD declines Parker wont be worth anything. Hes great at the Pick and Roll, but he cant hit a J. And we saw that last year in the playoffs. He cannot LEAD our team. So why wouldnt you shop him now (prime/we get most back) for something that will give us a chance to contend? Once TD rides off into the sunset are we going to build around Parker? Hill isnt “great” at anything but he’s solid at a lot of things. Parker is great at one thing and very limited in all other areas.

    Hill is doing a fine job of running the point. You have to expect growing pains.

    Sure its great to have loyalty to our players, but its a business, and if anyone on here is old enough to remember pre-Robinson…. you would think again about who and when you should shop players.

    The big three, have been unable to perform at a championship level as of yet. With injuries to Manu and Parker, throw in age, and you wonder if they will ever get it back. Sure, its a gamble. But so is doing nothing and pretending its 2005.

    Im really astounded that no one remembers JJ Barea/Kidd lighting up Parker. And his low TOs???? His TOs in the playoffs were momentum killers last year. He’s got a knack for fourth quarter giveaways. I think hes 10th in the league right now for most TOs a game.

  • Easy B

    @tradetp - even if I advocated trading Tony, and right now I don’t….you won’t get the value for him right now with his injuries. If this season flops, then maybe listen to offers…You are giving up on the season if you trade TP right now unless you get Paul in return, and I think we all know there is no real tangiable reason for that to happen.
    We need some health and momentum heading into the playoffs…..only someone with very high BBIQ could come in here right now and contribute meaningfully, let alone lead us to the finals. I agree that he is not the purest of points, the best of defenders, the most consistent 4th quarter player….but he is a major cog in the spurs juggernaut….and when he and manu are rolling, there’s not much any team in the league can do about it without feeding the rest of the team 3pt shots, layups and broken plays to exploit.

  • VP of Common Sense

    @Bushka,

    Wasn’t Tony Parker just a bunch of potential his second year in the league?

  • Tyler

    Trading TP right now would essentially thrust the Spurs into rebuilding mode. And if the front office really wanted to go that route, the first to be traded would be Manu, followed by our other expirings - TP would be much farther down that list. The likelihood of blowing up this team is so remote, it’snot even worth discussing (although I look forward to that article later today).

    Trade TP - TP’s PER last year (when he was healthy) was great. Without pulling up the data, I believe he was top 5 or 6 at his position. Next year, with a full off season of rest, I expect him to revert back to near that level.

    You refer to last year’s playoffs. Even though TP didn’t play great, he wasn’t the reason the Spurs lost. The culprit last year was our role players, who gave us absolutely nothing. From Mason to Bonner, our role players simply didn’t step up and TD and TP alone weren’t enough.

  • SeanE

    I totally agree with Dwyer. Against Denver the two guards were doing whatever they wanted. Don’t tell me that Hill had to guard Carmelo. He wasn’t there. He is a shooting guard. He can’t distribute as Manu or even TP.
    Don’t get me wrong, he is quite a good player. Hinrich is a good comparison. But Hinrich is paid more than TP whereas he is much worse. Talk about another overrated player !
    Maybe we don’t regret Chalmers, but we can regret Batum.

  • VP of Common Sense

    In all fairness to George Hill, Tony Parker struggles mightily against big, physical point guards like Billups, B. Davis, A. Miller, etc.

    They are both better against quick guards versus point guards who post up.

  • VP of Common Sense

    @SeanE,
    We were in position to get Batum, but Portland picked him right before us. Kevin Pritchard knew something our front office knew. After all, he does have Spurs ties.

  • krista

    I’m curious as to whom Dwyer thinks is overrating Hill. All fans tend to overrate their teams players, and if Dwyer is referring to Spurs fans then he is no more legitimate than me (and while entitled to my opinion no one is quoting or referencing me as a basketball or NBA source). And other than us, who exactly is praising him too much? Perhaps Pop, and I’ll take his opinion over Dwyer’s any day.

    I believe Hill is an excellent backup and good in a 3 guard set. The only way I see him as a starter is in a triangle offense where the point isn’t a traditional creator. He could very well evolve into a starter, and based on his on jump from last year to this it isn’t outside the realm of possibility.

    As for those calling for TP or Manu to be traded… Loyalty is rare in today’s sports world. I’d like to see more players and teams show some loyalty to each other. I’m a fan of the Spurs not the uniforms. I’d rather try to remain competitive while still remaining loyal to the core guys. If they want to be here why are we always looking past them? I want the Spurs to remain contenders as much as the next fan, but not if that means 12 new guys every year.

  • Mr. Anonymous

    I think Hill isn’t a starter at the moment, but a very good back-up to have.

    I can see him becoming, at best, an perennial 2nd Team All-Defense Team player (occasionally 1st), putting up somewhere between 10-15 points, 5 rebounds and a couple of assists on a championship team at his peak.

  • Bushka

    Yes VP of commonsense Tony was once just a bunch of potential too. But so was Acie Earl, Nikolas Tskitshivli, Jay Williams, Marcus Fizer etc etc etc.

    If you have been reading through my posts they are nearly always upbeat and positive with regard to our current roster. I have never advocated shedding George or Tony, my only point is that George is not “yet” good enough to take over from Tony, and that there is no earth shattering reason to trade Tony at all right now. You need as good a guard rotation as you can get, TP, George, Manu with Roger contributing gives you a good guard rotation.

    You get to watch George and see how he develops, you have the safety of Tony and his excellent penetration and knowledge of the system and you have Manu who can play either guard slot. Theres 96 minutes there to divvy up.

    On a final note, I have to take umbrage with the presumed notion that Tony is a bad jumpshooter. It’s not true, he worked and worked and worked on his shot and became quiet dangerous from around the same area as Antonio McDyess. He is just not a great 3 point shooter, however as you can see from his FG% he doesnt over extend and take a heap of bad shots.

  • Beat Counselor

    Kelly Dwyer is overrated.

  • Trade TP

    Not great? He shoots 27% from three. THAT IS AWFUL

  • pastrypride

    TradeTP,
    The fact that we lost to Dallas last year with Manu out and Duncan at 50% is your reason for saying we should trade Parker? LeBron couldn’t have saved that Spurs crew. How about the fact that Parker “led us” in our last finals series and was the best player on the team last year?

    Parker’s playing hurt this year. Last year was his best yet and he was a top 3 PG. There’s no reason to expect him to perform much worse than that once he returns to health. Of all the players we have right now, Parker will be the most important for the next four years or so.

  • Trade TP

    Pastry - you basically said TP=LBJ

    How about watching the Cleveland Massacre again.

    It should have gone to Tim, and just as easily could have gone to Manu. TP played against THE WORST PGs probably to ever wear a NBA uniform. He did a great job blowing by Eric Snow, but he averaged less assists than Tim. Odd. he shot better from the three than he did from the foul line… That series right there is exactly why people look like idiots when they bring up Parkers MVP. Beno Udrih would have gotten a double double. Jesus.

  • Tyler

    Trade TP - Your dislike for TP is blinding your judement my friend.

  • Beat Counselor

    Alright, here are Hill’s stats for the first game after Dwyer wrote his assessment.

    George Hill vs Kings
    23 pts, 9 ast, 4 reb, 2 stl, 1 blk, 3 TO & 9/9 FT

  • TradeTP

    Granted, its the Kings.

    TPs best against Sac this year
    24/7/3/2/1

    Fairly similar stats…

  • Bushka

    Yeah tony averages 27% from 3…He also takes 1 three point attempt every 53 minutes!!!!!!

    Considering half of attempts are probably heaves at the buzzer it illustrates my point quiet well, not that he is a great three point shooter, but that he has excellent shot selection.

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