El Conclusión: Dallas Mavericks 106, San Antonio Spurs 99

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San Antonio Spurs 99 FinalRecap | Box Score 106 Dallas Mavericks
Tim Duncan, C 29 MIN | 7-12 FG | 3-5 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 17 PTS | -8
Duncan was a monster on the boards against the Thunder on Friday night. Against the Mavericks…not so much. Duncan had a few nice moves on the block, but this was a forgettable, flat second game of a back-to-back.

Kawhi Leonard, SF
30 MIN | 2-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 5 REB | 2 AST | 5 PTS | -10Kawhi Leonard needs to work on his handle over the summer. Whenever he smells a drive opportunity he snuffs it out by pulling up his dribble at the first sign of a defender. He did this a handful of times tonight and was largely a non-factor against the Mavericks.
DeJuan Blair, F 15 MIN | 3-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 5 REB | 1 AST | 6 PTS | -19
DeJuan Blair can’t guard Dirk Nowitzki, as Dirk reminded him on a couple early baskets. But defensive mismatches aside, I was surprised Popovich didn’t find a little more time for Blair tonight. The Spurs’ offense was sputtering and Blair usually produces baskets on the pick and roll.
Tony Parker, PG 35 MIN | 5-12 FG | 3-7 FT | 2 REB | 11 AST | 13 PTS | -4
Parker was due for a scoring let down. The Mavericks do a great job of keeping Parker out of the paint. And tonight Parker obliged Dallas by settling for too many jump shots. Having said this, credit Parker for distribution. His 11 assists helped prevent a lopsided 20 point Dallas victory.
Daniel Green, G 21 MIN | 6-8 FG | 2-2 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 17 PTS | -10
Green was effective late after being limited by foul trouble in the first half. Unfortunately, by the time he got his game going, the Mavs had control of the game.
Stephen Jackson, SG 17 MIN | 2-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 1 AST | 5 PTS | +11
Jackson was lost on offense. Nothing shocking there. But despite just having hopped off a plane to meet his new teammates in Dallas, Jackson did have an impact on the game. His defensive activity, especially against Nowitzki, helped the Spurs.
Matt Bonner, PF 22 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 3 PTS | +2
Bonner grabbed a big offensive board at one point, which always earns bonus points from me. Credit Dallas’ defense from taking away Bonner’s looks. Also credit the Spurs’ lackluster offensive execution for poor spacing. Whatever the case, Bonner couldn’t get it going tonight.
Manu Ginobili, SG 24 MIN | 3-11 FG | 1-2 FT | 3 REB | 6 AST | 9 PTS | +4
Ginobili is still searching for his rhythm. His shot selection, especially late, was unfortunate. An ill-advised missed three pointer late in the fourth quarter gave Dallas a long rebound that turned into a triple for the Mavericks. That basket gave the Mavericks a 9 point lead and secured the game.
Gary Neal, PG 28 MIN | 3-7 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 2 AST | 9 PTS | -2
Neal’s three point shooting kept the game semi-competitive.
Tiago Splitter, C 19 MIN | 7-11 FG | 1-2 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 15 PTS | +1
Tiago is crafty. He may have been San Antonio’s best player tonight.
  • Jacques

    I see a lot of lenient grades here; the spurs allowed too many open threes. Danny Green was aggressive as always on defense but should have stayed on his man rather than trying to help teammates. Bonner deserves a F. He could not defend Wright and Mahimni. Pop should also take some blame for not playing Blair over Bonner. Just a horrible game especially on defense in 2nd half

  • junierizzle

    I think POP pulled the plug too quick on Manu, Splitter and Jackson in the fourth when they cut the lead to four. He put TP back in when he clearly didn’t have his shot tonight. I think he should have just toughed it out a little longer with Manu and Jack, they both need the burn.

    How about Green? Dude is lighting it up from three.

    Overall just too many open threes for the Mavs. I understand guys are going to get open threes during the course of a game but I just hate it when they collapse on guys and leave dudes like TERRY wide-open.

  • gospurs12

    As painful as this is to say is bringing Manu back hurting our team?  It seems like everyone has adjusted without him for so long that everyone seems confused when he does come back.  
    As we’ve seen before without him players are stepping up to produce what he does with Neal and Danny Green. Plus now we’ve got Stephen Jackson to fill in. In fact the Spurs have played better without him as he’s struggling to get back into rhythm. Maybe it’s time to give him only a few minutes a night and more of an assistant coach/mentor role on this team.

  • sam

    lol,   i think our guys were tired tonight ,  shots were falling short,   this includes  tony, kawai, green, duncan,    they all played alot of minutes last night   high 30′s     ,  and had to travel to dallas.     there was no energy on offense or defense.  
    splitter was the only exception  ,  he played well and should have got more minutes.  honestly duncan looked tired tonight and thought pop should have rested him for second half.  
    manu  still looks way far from 100%  ,  he takes alot of jump shots.  i would like to see him drive to the basket more.   that is when u know he is healthy.        
    i like stephen jackson on def.  he looked active  when he was on the floor.    
    honestly i don’t put too much into this game.  but lately it looks like we have been allowing alot of points   on def.  (100+)    and that is not spurs basketball .    hopefully this changes heading towards the last stretch of regular season

  • DorieStreet

    Didn’t see the game, but looking at the stats—- 3-pt numbers exactly the same for both teams (11-24) and shot attempts were even, with Spurs making 2 more baskets (39-79 vs 37-79).
    Team got out rebounded by 13 and committed 9 more fouls. And the poor FT shooting continues:
    since the allstar break, the Spurs are 138-207 - 66%. Last night – 10 -19 (Mavs 21-25).

  • TD BestEVER

    We are gonna get OWNED come playoff time if POP doesn’t get off the Bonner for President bandwagon……… Look at the Red Rockets Production in the last 2 games with extended minutes

    Mavs Game 
    Bonner – 22min   3points  1-2 from 3 4 rebounds
    Brian Cardinal – Bonner clone – 6 min – 3 points  1-3 from 3   0 rebounds

    OKC Game
    Bonner – 26min   3points  1-5FG/1-3 from 3   3rebounds   2 blocks

    Look at all those EMPTY,  NON PRODUCTIVE minutes there……..48 min and 6 points from a guy whose scoring is his ONLY reason he is on the team……….

    We were out rebounded 35-48!!   13 more rebounds for Dallas and POP still plays Bonner down the stretch.  And to make matters worse POP never draws up a play so that we can at least get from Bonner what he can give us in 3′s

    SMH – sad day

  • TD BestEVER

    “Overall just too many open threes for the Mavs. I understand guys are
    going to get open threes during the course of a game but I just hate it
    when they collapse on guys and leave dudes like TERRY wide-open.”
    +100 here……instead of us letting Dirk shoot those crazy 1 legged fade-a-ways, we kept trying to double leading to a Carter 3 and a terry 3 and also a Kidd 3 I believe……… IMO you let Dirk take as many 15ft fadding shots as he wants and you live with the out come…….

  • junierizzle

    A couple of those were desperation threes from the Spurs when the game was already, pretty much decided. Yes, they shot terribly from the free-throw line but as a Spurs fan it comes with the territory. As for the 9 more fouls, that is uncharacteristic of the Spurs. I thought the officials called a lot of ticky-tacky fouls. The Spurs couldn’t really play aggressive D. It felt like Dallas was shooting free-throws all night. In the second quarter Spurs were in the penalty with about 5 mins left. That isn’t Spurs basketball.

  • junierizzle

    Yup. I thought the Spurs always let Dirk get his? They really went for the double this time. Usually they have Terry in check. Dirk did hit some tough shots, but they were twos not threes. You can live with those.

  • Sam

    I have been paying really close attention to the past few games and this was the game I could take no more of Bonner. Just seeing him on the floor made me want to burn my television. He got manhandled by Ian Mahinmi and Brandon Wright, lemme say that again IAN MAHINMI AND BRANDON FREAKING WRIGHT. Absolutely pathetic. 

    Since the All-Star Break I have noticed a somewhat weird trend by the Spurs guards. They have been awful at defending the pick and pop/roll. They always get stuck behind the picks and make no attempt to defend the shot, and it has became a pet peeve of mine. Hopefully this is a fluke and it will be fixed soon.Anyways, I hate blaming officials, but that was an awful job by the refs every call seemed to go the Mavs’ way. The Spurs looked exhausted this entire game. Luckily we have a three days of rest and practice and I believe as Stephen Jackson and Patty Mills get implemented into the rotation, this team will be downright scary. Pretty much all we need is a strong front court addition and with the couple of extra roster spots I think the FO will make sure it is addressed. Look for a completely different team against the Wolves on Wednesday.

  • LPspursFan

    i’m not a Bonner-lover, but i think Pop would argue that a ‘stretch 4′ keeps a defender guarding the 3-point line instead of sagging down into the middle, thus opening up the inside for the penetration of Tony and the wings…Bonner’s contributions are not always measurable only by his shot attempts and FG percentage

  • http://radsci.uthscsa.edu/index.php/User:Nima Nima K.

    Mills. How good is his game? All I know is that he was tied to the Blazers.

  • DorieStreet

    @ sam  +100
    In the first 30 games, the Spurs allowed the opponents 99pts or more 10 times (3-7 record).
    During the last 13 games, the opposition has hit 99pts+ 10 times (6-4 record for Spurs).

    As far as Manu goes, everyone has to remember he only played one week – 5 games – at the beginning of this season, then was gone for 1 1/2 months. His season basically didn’t start until 5 weeks ago. He plays for 1 week – 4 games- then is injured again; he’s out again for 2  weeks – 5 games. Manu comes back at the beginning of March, playing in 5 games over 2 weeks before sitting out Friday night.
    I believe it will take the rest of the season for Manu to get into shape and get back to his game.

  • DorieStreet

    Team has added an SG (Jackson), a PG (Patty Mills),  brought back Cory Joseph and signed Eric Lawson to another 10-day contract. Is Ronny Turief/Boris Diaw next?

  • theghostofjh

    IMO, Pop’s argument here is overvalued. And all players make contributions that don’t show up in the box score. Blair included.

  • theghostofjh

    You’re joking, right?

  • theghostofjh

    Sorry to play a broken record, but Blair and Splitter should have played more, and Bonner less. We may have had a shot at this game, even though the team in general was not as sharp tonight in the 2nd of a back-to-back on the road.

  • Bob

     A stetch 4 is a nice to have but not necessary especially when you have to sacrifice other qualities you want out of your power forward such as toughness, rebounding, and defense.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/WBPW327T6XAZCCFQY25HBG6RE4 Cristian

    True, but that is “Tired Spurs” basketball. That is the best sign we don’t have our legs: too many fouls. 
    Right after the game I had the same thought Timothy just mentioned: we should have lost this game by 20. The first half had the feeling we were down double digits, but it was only two and actually could have taken the lead going into halftime.
    But just like Dorie said, we sucked on the boards (-13) and at the FT line. And Tony and Manu were a combined 8-23 and 4-9 FT’s. Add 2-3 more FT’s made, 2-3 more rebounds, 3-4 pts less for Mavs and 3-4 pts more for Spurs and we win. It’s the little things. 
    Anyway, the Spurs were half dead out there and Mavs played great, making buzzer beater jump shots and lucky 3point bounces and we still had a chance to win.
    Loved what I saw from S.Jax. He just showed us what RJ could never do: run a PnR and hit the roll man perfectly and fake a 3, put the ball on the floor and take it all the way to the basket for a lay-up. And his defense on Dirk was superb. He was really pumped up out there. Loved it.
    This break in the schedule the Spurs have is perfect, it will give a chance to have a few practices. 2 games in a week, both at home. WOW. Another anomaly in this weird season.

  • ziijordan

     There is no way you are being serious.

    I can’t believe I just read the dumbest statement I have ever read on this site, EVER.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/WBPW327T6XAZCCFQY25HBG6RE4 Cristian

    I wanted to Splitter to play more too. But look at this playing time and at Tim’s. Tiago :18:52, Tim 29:02. Added, is 48 minutes on the dot. They play basically the same position and they sub for each other every time because they still can’t play together on offense. I’d want to see a line-up of Tim, Tiago, Tony, Manu and S.Jax. They could run PnRs from every position till the other team gets dizzy.

  • ziijordan

    It seems to me that Pop should start reading these posts, and reconsider being the coach of the San Antonio Spurs. I think Pop should resign with immediate effect, and hand the keys to Mr. TD BestEVER.

    It seems to me that you’re much more well versed in the game of basketball than Pop ever will be, and your negative comments day in and day out will sure bring the best out of anyone that lives within your circumference. 

    Bonner is in the game to allow Parker and Manu the chance to penetrate, since the man that guards Bonner is usually a PF, which means there is one less big in the paint to challenge the penetrating guard. If by any chance the big guarding Bonner ends up collapsing on the paint or rotating to cover an open shooter then Bonner gets the open 3. You don’t draw plays for Bonner, you keep him in the game to keep defenses honest with their coverage.

    The Spurs are doing a tremendous job, and what they’ve accomplished so far this season was way beyond ALL of OUR expectations, as we were advocating tanking the season when Manu went down with that injury.

    We are not gonna get OWNED come playoff time if we go in healthy. Pop will bring the best out of his players come playoff time, and he will have a good productive rotation going, provided we stay HEALTHY.

  • STIJL

    Bonner’s allocation of time on the court makes no sense in a game where it was CLEARLY obvious the team needed better low post defense, scoring and rebounds while Splitter and Blair don’t even log more than 20 minutes.

    I shake my head in confusion and utter disgust.  I hope DorieStreet’s comment comes to fruition that a Turief or Diaw type of player is soon signed.  But wouldn’t think it guaranteed them time on the court if Bonner is active on roster.

  • TD BestEVER

    The same TIRED arguments to justify Bonner playing………Floor Spacing BS……
    If Bonner shooting made life so much easier for Manu/TP to do their thing then why doesn’t he start games.   Because it would be OPEN SEASON in the paint and on the boards if he did!!!!!!!! 

    Floor spacing is great but many teams win without it including OKC, Bulls, Lakers, Boston, Miami, or basically all the best teams in the NBA play and many have won WITHOUT a floor spacing PF playing little to no minutes…………So how is it they can do this but we can’t??????????? SMH

    POP got rid of Bowen for RJ – when Bowen was the better FLOOR SPACER!!!!!
    Then got rid of RJ for Jackson – when RJ was the better FLOOR SPACER!!!!!!

    So why is it ok to trade floor spacing for increased productivity at the SF position, but not the PF position.   

    You guys just hear POP or the writers hear say something and just repeat it as if it a fact beyond all doubt.

    So to sum things up….Manu/TP do just fine getting into the paint and setting up teammates and scoring with DJB/Splitter in the game……..in fact most of their buckets are assisted by these two players…….. So again, why trade in the productivity they give just so the Spurs can play 4 on 5 every time down the floor.

  • Cheyenneharty

    I agree. Bad shooting or not– we still gave up 106.

  • Bry

    Didn’t you already make this absurd suggestion earlier? You didn’t notice the predictable ridicule that came along with it? “Everyone seems confused when he does come back”. The Spurs have been used to playing with Manu for years, some for a decade. Why in the world would they be better off with him off the court?! If that was a joke you’ve gotta work on your delivery. If that was a serious suggestion you need to get your head examined.

  • Bry

    Even worse than people suggesting Duncan retire to ‘free up a roster spot’ and the suggestions to tank this season? I’ll rank all three of them at the same level of insanity.

  • Jdini

    OK. On trade day I vilified Wacko Jacko as bad in the locker room and bad in playing team ball. After about 30 seconds of practice and a full month off the floor he announces he is all about team, then walks on to draw a charge on Nowitski, throw a fabulous assist to Tiago, and sink a three. What was I saying? I love this guy!

  • Bry

    I think Bonner’s minutes should be reduced, but there is something to the argument in favor of the stretch 4. Wings are typically shooters, so it doesn’t get their man out of his element. But Post-players are normally not comfortable guarding on the perimeter. They are not used to getting over screens and contesting perimeter jumpshots. Their instincts are to sink to the basket and protect the paint. Bonner puts them out of their element. They can’t protect the paint, and it’s much harder for them to get the defensive rebound. They are forced to either basically play out of position (and give less interior D and rebounding) or to sag off (which they often do) and get burned by the guy who led the league in 3-point percentage. As Nowitzki showed last night (and has his whole career) an effective stretch 4 can break open a game in a hurry. Bonner has a couple bad games  this week, and his minutes should be reduced and given to Blair and Splitter, but he does have his value.

  • Bob

    Stretch 4′s work if you have a good player. The problem is Bonner is just not good enough. Stretch 4′s our talented players that can hit from 3 and put the ball on floor. Bonner can only hit 3′s that are wide open with no pressure. No playoff teams will be giving him those looks consistently. They’ll sag into the paint and then run him off the line where he’s useless.

  • Bob

     Pop doesn’t care for high percentage shots that put pressure on the defense. Layups are more efficient than 3′s.

  • Titletown99030507d

    Splitter needs to be the first sub in for Blair. Timmy and Splitter need time together early and late in the game. Bonner can come in for Timmy for a short Spell, bring in Blair for Bonner and then Timmy for Splitter then finish it off with Timmy and Splitter. They gotta do something like this or else. Splitter is wasting on the bench waiting for Timmy to play his minutes then waiting for Bonner as well until its time for his run. This is driving me crazy.

  • theghostofjh

    As I’ve noted repeatedly in the past, the “stretch 4″ is an overvalued concept without an “all-around” versatile and/or special type of player to play the position (a la, Robert Horry). Bonner is NOT that guy. An effective stretch 4 cannot be un-athletic and/or one dimensional because his weaknesses will ultimately out-weigh his strengths, particularly as the competition gets steeper, and the game evolves into more half-court sets, as  is often the case in the playoffs.

    A brief comment regarding the theory behind the stretch-4 idea:

    As you’ve described, there is some merit for it. However, in the case of a guy like Bonner, many of the better, deeper teams have a variety of ways to effectively counter from a defensive standpoint the purported benefits to the Spurs from an offensive standpoint, which in any even are limited and unpredictable at best anyway for a number of reasons:

    (1) TP, Manu etc. are VERY competent at penetrating and creating good scoring opportunities even with with less space in the painted area to operate.
    (2) Bonner can be guarded by a more athletic, better rebounding SF or stretch-4 himself (almost anyone), which negates the main advantage that he brings.
    (3) Bonner is not a very effective 3-point shooter without an unusual amount of space to operate, which he is less able to create against the better teams.
    (4) Bonner is an unusually poor rebounder/defender/passer compared to most opponent stretch 4′s, and over-sized SF’s.
    (5) Bonner leaves the 36-year-old Duncan to do most of the battling in the paint against the opponent’s much younger/stronger starting 4/5′s.
    (6) We have plenty of shooters to spread the floor without Bonner.
    (7) We now also have good personnel to go small-ball on occasion with Leonard’s emergence, and the acquisition of Jackson.
    (8) While Pop’s obviously overall a very competent coach, he’s not perfect with all of his decisions. None of us are. I contend he has a bit of a blind spot with Bonner (and undervalues a bit the capabilities of Blair, and maybe even Splitter), and I’m far from alone for those that know the game.

    Bottom line: Bonner should get FAR fewer minutes, if any at all. In fact, I would suggest that there’s an inverse correlation between Bonner’s minutes and the Spurs success at advancing far in the playoffs.

  • theghostofjh

    I do agree that there’s NO reason that Splitter can’t play some minutes with Duncan, if only “Bonner’s minutes get reduced”. AND THAT’S THE PROBLEM!

    But as I stated before, Splitter should consistently be subbed in BEFORE Bonner, but initially for Duncan, not for Blair. Even Splitter and Blair can play together for limited minutes, and in certain match-ups. Then have Bonner come in for Blair, Duncan for Splitter, and Blair for Bonner. In some match-ups the Duncan/Splitter combo is best used late in the game (sometimes Blair if he’s got his offense/rebounding going, and is active on “D”). Instead though, we often have Bonner in the game a lot in the 4th — that’s a BIG mistake IMO.

  • DorieStreet

    This issue of Blair/Splitter v. Bonner will come to a head soon; the Spurs will play 5 games in 6 nights – their first (of two) BTBTB this coming weekend, followed by a day off, then a BTB on the road out west. If the squad was as gassed last night as some fans noted, every player- even the newcomers -will get their fair share of court time.  I expect to see all sorts of lineup combinations has the Spurs go through this month-ending grind.

  • Daniel T

    In 900+ minutes of playing time, the Spurs have outscored their opponents by 195 points while Bonner is in the game.  In about the same number of minutes, they have been outscored by their opponents by 51 points while Blair is on the court.   Despite the fact that they start with Blair and play a number of minutes with him, in 1400+ minutes the team is up by 219 points while Tony is on the court and in Tim’s 1160 minutes they are up by 41 points.  Bonner, Tim and Tony have been on the court together for 216 minutes and during that time have outscored the opponent by 51 points.  Tim, Tony and Blair; though playing a good deal more minutes together; don’t get into the Spurs top 50 3 man units and would seem to have been outscored by opponents.  While that doesn’t make Bonner the better player than Blair, it would seem that the Spurs are a better team while Bonner is on the court than while Blair is.

  • victor
  • TD BestEVER

     +/- STATS are weak…… And I knew someone was gonna try to use them to justify Bonner……..Blair starts and plays against starters more than Bonner does.  That could be the reason why his number look better.  Playing against weaker competition.  It’s alot easier to out score Big baby than it is to out score Dwight Howard.  So please take that into consideration before you use meaningless stats like +/-. 

    Bonner is top 25 in the NBA in plus minus…….does that make him a FRANCHISE PLAYER…..AN ALL STAR, even a Top 100 player in the NBA…….No it doesn’t.

    The Spurs have a top 5 Bench in the NBA….SO of course our bench is gonna outscore the opponents bench more often than not when Bonner is in the game………SMDH

  • Bry

    I’d say the basic problem is the amount of time he is played (as most on this blog agree). Stretch 4s are usually bad defenders, apart from Troy Murphy they all seem to be poor rebounders. They don’t create for teammates. With the notable exception of David West and Dirk, they should not play starter minutes. (I think when the Cavs traded for and then started Antawn Jamison they doomed their playoff run). They should get situational minutes and be pitted against mostly 2nd string competition. But, again, he doesn’t start, and he plays 21 MPG, so it’s not as if Pop is treating him like a starter. I’d be happy with Bonner playing 11-14 MPG, being subbed in the proper situations. And nights like these last two, when his shot isn’t falling they should bench him just like any other player having an off night or off week.

  • theghostofjh

    Wrong, and I’m not going to take the time to fully explain why.

    “While that doesn’t make Bonner the better player than Blair, it would
    seem that the Spurs are a better team while Bonner is on the court than
    while Blair is.”

    No. It suggests that Bonner, TD, & Parker play well together with two other unnamed Spur teammates against unknown, more often than not, inferior 5-man unit opponents.

    And the fact is, the Parker-Neal-Jefferson-Blair-Duncan FIVE-MAN unit (TEAM) has the highest win percentage out of all of our FIVE-MAN units according to 82-games.com.

    As I’ve said numerous times in the past, +/- stats are VERY easy to misinterpret.

  • theghostofjh

    “Stretch 4s are usually bad defenders, apart from Troy Murphy they all seem to be poor rebounders.”The point is, Bonner is one of the worst ones out of the group in rebound/defense combination:…………………………..  Pts./Rebs.NowitskiLoveRyan AndersonJamisonFryeIlyasovaHarrington

  • Daniel T

     You mean the top win percentage for all five man units that have played together for more than 30 minutes?  There are three units with between 20 and 30 minutes, which all include Bonner.  Then we could ask if the top unit has Neal rather than Green, why has Green gotten more starts? 

    From what you’ve said, then if the young Blair would to have put in as many minutes as Duncan and Parker have in which he might then play against a weaker opponent like Bonner gets, then rather than have a negative rating he’d be up there with Timmy and Tony.  Though perhaps the answer might be to take him from the starting unit altogether so that he can take advantage of those weaker opponents that Bonner plays against, so that instead of Bonner’s mere 195+ Blair might have a few hundred in the +/- stat while Bonner could suffer with the negative number that Blair currently has. 

    I’ve not said anything about Bonner’s numbers making him a franchise player, all star or top 100.  You’ve argued that Bonner’s minutes should be reduced and given to Blair because you don’t see as much significance to a stretch 4, but I guess you admit that Bonner does great against the other bench since he has a +195 number.  So do you feel that if Blair had exchanged places and minutes with Bonner, his +/- would be over 200?

  • Bry

    Fair point, but it does show that Bonner and the bench play very well. Bonner does not start, plays 21 MPG and is part of a bench you just described as ‘top 5 in the NBA’. Knowing all that, if you just shave a few minutes per game off his tally I think we can all agree he’d be playing his role very well for the Spurs. 

  • theghostofjh

    Of the top 8 five-man units by minutes, Blair and Bonner are each in 4 of these without the other. The four 5-man units that Blair is in has a higher combined win percentage.

    http://www.82games.com/1112/1112SAS2.HTM

    “There are three units with between 20 and 30 minutes, which all include
    Bonner.  Then we could ask if the top unit has Neal rather than Green,
    why has Green gotten more starts?”Your original point was not to debate who should “start”, but who appeared to be of greater value to the “team winning”, Bonner or Blair.”From what you’ve said, then if the young Blair would to have put in as
    many minutes as Duncan and Parker have in which he might then play
    against a weaker opponent like Bonner gets, then rather than have a
    negative rating he’d be up there with Timmy and Tony.”
    No, that’s not what i said at all. Please quotes of any of my comments that could possibly back up your assertion.

    “Though perhaps the answer might be to take him from the starting unit …… ” No, that would only give us limited additional information. The problem is you’re trying to draw conclusions about a player’s value to a team based on a plus/minus stat that can only be meaningfully useful when using highly complicated plus/minus comparisons, and even then, multiple additional stats must be taken into account. ” ….. but I guess you admit that Bonner does great against the other bench since he has a +195 number.”No, Bonner in his unique combination of playing with our most productive “starters” AND bench “players” has a good +/- number, particularly against inferior teams, where we are often able to run-up the score against generally poor defenses.”So do you feel that if Blair had exchanged places and minutes with Bonner, his +/- would be over 200?”No, again, you’re making assumptions out of left field.

  • Bob

     The problem is Pop’s philosophy of saving everyone’s minutes. But he needs to make the adjustment to regular minutes and rotations before the playoffs.

  • TD BestEVER

     absolutely….Our bench is a HUGE part of our success and I wouldn’t have it any other way…..If our starters get a lead our bench can all most always keep it or add to it.  And can even get up back in games at times. So I love our bench, but people get carried away when they try to compare bench performance to starters performance.  Starters play against the tougher competition longer.

  • STIJL

    Stats can be a sobering or stabbing thorn depending on one’s perspective prior to looking at them when addressing an issue.  One’s perceived opinion may be backed up by stats or shot down after the fact of making note on any particular subject.

    These two stats from the same source, I’m sure, will provide ample crow or cobbler (depending on the belief digest) when it comes to Bonner v. Blair in units pairing.

    Blair-  http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2011-2012&id=858
    Bonner- http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2011-2012&id=330
    and for comparison, Splitter- http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2011-2012&id=930

    Take note of not only in the mpg but more importantly…pairing stats.  Of particular interest is in Blair’s overall rating being best served when only paired with Duncan while Bonner’s is best served when paired with Splitter and worse being paired with Duncan.

    I have some crow to eat regarding my earlier comment regarding Bonner but contend the team would fair better with another defensive (better low post adequate) player than Bonner IF they had such a player to place on the court.  In Blair’s case…unless paired with Duncan…he shouldn’t see much court time.  As is the case with Bonner…he shouldn’t be on the court the same time Duncan is playing.  And though the mpg sample is small, a strong case can be made that Splitter should not be paired with Duncan being the differences of green (positive) and red (negative) is of a wide margin.

    But as I said before…stats can be sobering just as they can be troubling.  In the OKC game in which the Spurs won…plenty of Bonner positives to be obtained even when paired with Duncan.   This Dallas game…it just proved to show the Spurs by the numbers…they will have issues with any oponent that has decent to good talent across the board in it’s post because the Spurs simply don’t have another option in “units” to place on the court which can compete favorably.  It’s against those types of teams the Spurs perimeter game must be at it’s top performance in order to win.  To that…Dallas did a better job of limiting the Spurs perimeter players and thus won the game.

  • theghostofjh

    Sure, but it would help if he made the correct adjustments as well. For example, Pop does a lot of things right, but replacing Blair with McDyess in the starting line-up last season after going 50-11 was IMO the wrong adjustment, just as we headed down the back stretch and into the playoffs.

  • theghostofjh

    Stats can be used selectively in an effort to “prove” one’s opinion.

    “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.”  — Mark Twain

    And they are often misunderstood and/or over-interpreted to mean more than they actually tell us.

  • Miggy

    I’m still stoked about Captain Jack :) I loved the charge he took and the way he needled Nowitzki with his defensive positioning. I loved the way he stared down the referees after Nowitzki through him down and got the foul. After that foul it didn’t even affect his aggressiveness on Dirk. This guy is going to be money on defense for us.