Tuesday, March 30th, 2010...8:42 am
Get your Manu Ginobili fix
No, Manu Ginobili didn’t play in the San Antonio Spurs disappointing loss to the New Jersey Nets last night. But luckily, Zach Lowe at CelticsHub.com has a great video breakdown of how the Celtics defended Manu on pick-and-roll situations in the Spurs 94-73 win on Sunday night.
The C’s have a pretty standard way of defending screen/rolls: The guy guarding the ball-handler (this is usually Rajon Rondo) fights over the screen while the big man guarding the screener either slides over to cut off penetration or jumps out to try and force the ball-handler away from the basket while Rondo recovers from the screen.
To my eyes, the C’s approach with Ginobili was essentially a super-exaggerated version of this. As soon as the man guarding Manu knew a screen was coming, he would jump to one side of the screener, positioning himself almost perpendicular to Ginobili. The idea, it appeared, was to force Ginobili the other direction, where the man guarding the screener had already sagged back to cut off penetration.
This is great stuff from Zach and gives you a pretty good idea of what the Spurs were lacking on Monday night against the Nets. There’s no word on whether or not Manu will play against Houston on Wednesday night, though my guess is that he’ll be ready.
56 Comments
March 30th, 2010 at 9:45 am
So we just saw first hand against the Nets what we knew already. Manu Ginobili is the first option for this team kind of the way Tim was for years. I still think we need more consistent role players to make any noise in the playoffs. I mean, Manu can’t do it ALL by himself. Or can he?
March 30th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Ginobili is putting on such a show and gaining so much value in the eyes of contending teams that, considering my firm belief we should rebuild from scratch, it makes it impossible not to trade him.
THE WINDOW HAS CLOSED
That is obvious, but more important is that it’s not going to reopen witout MAJOR retooling, and that means trading away your valuable pieces for future assets.
So bloggers here have to decide if they are Spurs fans, or they if they are only fans of the glorious team of the last decade and want to painfully watch them die away like Bird’s Celtics.
If you are a fan of the Spurs, than you have to treat it like a business, and admit the only way to get things going in the right direction is by trading Manu and Parker.
I will add something more: for a small market franchise like the Spurs it’s difficoult to build without high lottery picks, so we will need to tank a season.
I know tanking goes against what Spurs culture stands for, but sometimes you have to bend your own rules.
TRADES
WHO TO TRADE?
DUNCAN - NO
Assuming the FO doesn’t want to trade him and he doesn’t want to go, after this one he’s still under contract for 2 more years at 18.7 and 21.3 million $ respectively.
That’s an extremely big chunk of the cap, and so you need for him to be useful for the rebuilding project by being a mentor to some young, talented post player, like Robinson did for him. If he wants to stay then he has to accept that role, which I don’t see as a problem.
JEFFERSON - YES/NO
Given the season he’s had he will have little market this summer, but his big contract expires at the end of next season, so he may have plenty of market at the trading deadline. If some team is desperate to cut costs, we may just get lucky and land something valuable in return.
MANU and PARKER - YES
Not a lot of explanation needed here: they have value, they will get you something good in return. There are a couple of “but” though:
1 - Some trades have been proposed here that, from the other team point of view, make no sense. It’s all nice and well to dream of getting excellent value in return, but the other team has to reap benefits too from the trade for it to happen.
For example, it would make little sense for Minnesota to trade for Parker, because at the end of his deal (end of next season) he would almost surely bolt for another team (winning and/or major market), leaving the TWolves with nothing to show for the trade.
2 - In the case of Manu, you have to do a sign and trade, so Manu, before signing, would know where he’d end up. And if you were Manu, would you want to go to a team in shambles like Phila or the Clippers? Maybe only if they threw at him a lot of money, but just like us, why would those team want to rebuild around a 33 year old?
If Manu stays in the NBA, I think he will end up to a contender.
SPLITTER - YES
As long as we are above the cap, the max we can offer to Tiago is the midlevel exception. European teams will offer him more than that, so why should he leave?
The rights to Splitter can be included in a trade (to a team than can offer him more), and that’s what we should do.
WHAT TO TRADE FOR
A post player. Not just any big. He can be average at D, but he needs to be a skilled offensive threat with his back to the basket.
Swingmans may rule the league today, but recent history has proved that you don’t win unless you have a dominat post player who can score from the low block.
Starting from ’94 til today, only the ’96-’98 Bulls won it all without a powerful post player or frontcourt.
He doesn’t need to be a superstar, but someone with enough talent to represent a valid option for an inside-ouside game.
Nowitski, Stoudemire, Bosh, Boozer… even Howard so far: great stats but no post moves and limited ability to pass out of double teams = no titles.
Second obvious need when building a team is a swingman who can create his own shot.
Of course you’ll need a ballhandler, a big who can spread the floor, and so on, but really to compete at the highest level you need to start covering those two needs.
And of course one of your two best players needs to be a leader as well, which could be the most difficoult skill to find around the league.
Building a team with all the right ingredients is VERY difficoult and requires a good share of luck during the process. We had it good while it lasted, let’s never forget that.
March 30th, 2010 at 10:48 am
@Francesco
You can’t trade TP or MANU. Manu is only a year older than KOBE. Jordan was still winning championships at 35. I don’t know why people talk about MANU like he is 38 years old.
No matter who you trade them for they’ll never bring what they bring.
You say in order to avoid a decline, they need to trade these guys. But I think trading these guys would only accelerate the decline. You gotta ride TD, TP and MANU until TD is out of the league.
You don’t even give any names.
It’s easy to say get a ball handler and a post player but who is that exactly??
March 30th, 2010 at 10:48 am
Francesco
March 30th, 2010 at 10:08 am
I agree with some of your points, but without making some suggestions of trades that at least on the surface make some sense for both teams, your general suggestions have no basis in reality.
What teams need Manu & TP, and can we get the right type of players from that team to best fit our needs? We have to answer such questions by posing possible trades to see if in actuality there’s something out there that is doable (financially, etc.) to make us better.
I, for one, would put more emphasis on defense/shot-blocking in the post (with some scoring potential), as well a strong, all-around player on the wing, including possessing an intensity for man-to-man defense.
March 30th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Francesco you are nuts!
March 30th, 2010 at 11:49 am
How about the obvious: LET’S NOT TRADE ANYONE! What if we build around TP, Duncan, and Manu? We have Blair and Hill under contract. That’s a solid 5 to start. We need valuable role players and perhaps another borderline all-star. We can get this with the RJ contract that a lot of teams will want next year. Stop panicking…BIG THREE UNTIL 2012 BABY!!!
March 30th, 2010 at 11:56 am
There is a long line, a very long line, of season ticket holders waiting to renew depending on whether or not the Spurs re-sign Manu. It’s a business and he fills seats, lots of them.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Manu’s not the only player in the league that fills seats. Besides, the best way to fill seats is to be a “true” contender as often as possible. We’re not going to get there by simply tinkering with minor acquisitions to fill minor roles around an aging, injury prone “big three”. We need to release our vice grip around the glory days of times past, or we’re destined to enter a period of long-term funk.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Guys, you criticize my analysis based on the fact I don’t offer names or trade proposals.
With all due respect, it doesn’t make any sense: I’m a blogger, not a scout or a GM. As such, I am free to express opinions witout the need to come up with the exact solution.
If you feel qualified to list names, fine by me.
Anyway, so that you may better get the hang of what I have in mind:
PARKER
he has won already, so if the chance is given to him, considering he is young and has a celebrity wife, do you think he would rather go to a small market contender, or to the big city?
One possibility could be the Clippers: he’d love being in LA and we would get the Clippers’ first round pick, + cap filler or Steve Blake
MANU
Utah has New York’s first round pick. If the Jazz have a succesful playoff run, they may become convinced Manu is what would get them over the top. Again, pick, + cap filler or Kirilenko’s expiring contract in a larger trade.
@ junierizzle, eric, agutierrez
Jordan and Kobe had/have bodies to support 35/40 minutes a game for 82 games.
Manu cannot play 25 a game without getting hurt at some point during the season. Manu was forced to rest the last game. Why do you think that happened? Would the same have happened to Kobe and Jordan?
And: Manu’s playing great in the last 2 months of the regular season of his contract year… does anyone really believes he could sustain this level of otherwordly performance all season long for the next 2-3 seasons? Come on, he’s been a sixth man, 25 minutes a game player throughout his NBA career, and he’s gonna turn into something else now? Have you seen him holding his shorts at the end of games?
If you want to ride this team until TD and Manu fall to pieces I respect you opinion, but then again you’d end up in 2-3 years’ time with nothing while having developed noone. It’s extremely difficoult to rebuild from there. It took the Celtics (not just any team, Boston!) 15 years to do that.
And San Antonio is such a small market that it would have troubles sustaining a losing team for more than a few years. You may wake up one day and find the Spurs have moved somewhere else… sell that to the fans.
@jim henderson
I respect your opinion about defence and shot blocking from the post, which of course is needed, but:
Ewing, Mourning - great defensive players with some scoring ability - no titles.
Shaq, Gasol - limited defensive ability - but the team can cover for that with role players.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Trading Manu would be devastating. To the fans , to the city, and to the team. There is still away to rebuild without having to trade him away. I mean we did it between 2001 and 2003 with Duncan still in hand, why not with Manu? He has alot of experiances he could pass on to new Spurs players
March 30th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
I agree very much with Francesco especially since even Manu says it’s unlikely he will be resigned. AT LEAST GET SOMETHING OUT OF HIM. Manu has great trade value for a team lacking one more piece to be a championship team.
As for Parker, what team doesn’t love a scoring point?
There’s no guarantee Parker will return to his 08-09 form next year, especially since he became injury prone this year in areas not related to his plantar whateveritis.
I say trade both, especially since Hill is already showing flashes of becoming a better defending Parker type player. And when/if Nando De Colo comes here, we can stick him at point (because he is a near mirror image of parker) and use Hill at the 2 spot because of his length.
Blair might end up becoming a solid big in a couple years and who knows what Ian might become. There’s also Hairston who has shown some great flashes in very very little playing time.
With the rapid growth of the Thunder, Portland, Denver, and Utah and the uncertainty of what the Rockets could actually be with Yao next year, I honestly can’t see San Antonio winning a championship in Duncan’s last years.
The decline and the transition are coming, so let’s get more ready now to be back to prominence (hopefully)
March 30th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
@Infamous
Look, lest anyone mistakes my cinic attitude towards the business for lack of love: I’m from Italy, I was already watching and rooting for Ginobili when the starting 2-guard for the Spurs was Jaren Jackson…
But in 2002/3 we rebuilt around a young Duncan, now both him AND Manu are on the downside of their careers…
YOU DO NOT REBUILD AROUND AGING PLAYERS, nor Parker, for that matter.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Francesco,
It’s not MANU’s fault that POP chose to have him come off the bench. It’s not his fault that the SPURS brought him over at 26 and not 23 or 24.
He was MVP in the Italian league. ANd just look at how he has played recently. Its pretty much his team. He could have opted out and been this type of player on another team. He could have been an ALL-STAR every year. He might even have gotten some MVP votes.
He has been injured because of his commitment to his country. He won’t play this summer, At least I don’t think. He knows whats at stake.
YEs he sat out against the NETS but so what? POP wanted to rest him. Remember when KOBE had back spasms? He had no buisness out there. He should have sat too.
ANd that holding on his shorts at the end of game thing. That’s an old JORDAN move. Yeah JOrdan did it too.
ERIC has the right idea. You have to ride the Big 3 and get better role players, better shooters.
I think Anthony MOrrow is available this year. Mike Miller still has some game left.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Ka1z3R,
You just described the team that lossed to the NETS last night.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
There are a ton of variables left to play out. Who knows what will happen this postseason and offseason. With that in mind, here are a few themes that I think Holt, the front office and coaching staff will make priorities (not in any particular order):
1.) Payroll - a small market team like the Spurs can’t sustain this amount of luxury tax. I suspect that by next year’s trade deadline, the organization will have cleared a decent amount of $ off the books. This should also affect potential trades and free agency. The FO will most likely shy away from long, guaranteed contracts and instead opt for shorter, less expensive deals. The looming CBA fight should also factor in.
2.) Youth - I think with the signing of Hairston, Jerrels, and Gee, the organization has come to terms with the fact that our pipeline of D-Leaguers needs to be utilized, or at least given a chance. I think the days of finding an older guy as a one or two year fix are, for the most part, over (Udoka, Mason, etc). We need to develop guys for the long term. I think it’s come to sink-or-swim time for these young guys. Let’s hope they swim.
How these two factors affect our decisions in free agancy, the draft, and the trade market this summer and next year are up for debate. But I’d be willing to bet that almost all our moves will be to get younger and/or shed cap space.
March 30th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
@ junierizzle
Manu normally comes off the bench also because it’s easier to monitor his minutes that way.
Yes, Manu got injured also because he played during summers, which proves my point: he cannot play too much.
Kobe played 2 summers in a row too: he was slightly tired at the end of game 3 of the finals…
It seems to me you insist on considering a 33 year old man worthy of rebuilding around, despite all known facts pointing in another direction… let’s agree we disagree?
Manu is playing at MVP level right now, but winning the Italian MVP trophy doesn’t exactly compare to winning the NBA MVP.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Whether or not we retain Manu depends almost entirely on the PRICE. It’s very simple: what do you value his production at over the next 3-4 years?
Here’s my take: 3 year deal in the $5-7M range, with a team option for the 4th year. I’d be very hesitant to go any higher than $7M. Keep in mind, he’s currently making $10.725M.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Francesco,
I didn’t say rebuild around MANU. I meant There is still time to rebuild around the BIG 3.
But yeah, let’s agree we disagree.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
God we’re a positive bunch of humans.
We should retain Manu because if we don’t sign him we are not going for a ring as presently constructed. Not to mention Tim isn’t hanging about to rebuild.
You have to roll the dice with aging vets because thats how you win championships.
Take a look at Boston the Cavs and LA, Kobe was born in 78, Fisher in 74, Artest in 79, Odom in 79. All have a lot of miles on their legs.
Ray Allen was born in 75, Garnett in 76, Peirce in 77, Rasheed in 74.
Shaq was born in 72, Jamison in 76, Ilgauskas in 75.
You have to have stars, and you have to take a chance with injury.
Just because they are old is no guarantee they are going to be injured. Look at the blazers and warriors, they can’t get people to stand up and it’s not like they are the oldest teams in the league.
It’s not like it’s Manu or death. However if we hold onto Manu, TP and George Hill we have a top flight three guard rotation.
We keep developing Hairston and hold onto RJ and fill the three spot with those guys.
Tim, plus a more seasoned Dejaun Blair, a player thats more comfortable in the system now in Dice and hope to sign Splitter to your mid level, with Bonner and scraps filling in the final 15 minutes a game. That’s a much improved front line.
The only gamble here is health. But that’s the gamble everyone trying to win a championship is ready to make. You think Vince Carter is a 20 year old? How about Jameer Nelsons knees? Everyone has the same problems we have. People get older, injuries happen.
It’s all in the lap of the gods.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Tyler,
good point, over the next 4 years I agree his value should be around 7M$, but after taxes that’s what?, 4M$ net?
Some teams in Europe are prepared to offer him 10 to 12 M$ net…
Realistically, what would you do?
Of course he’d like to stay in the NBA and he’s the ultimate competitor, but he’s also waiting for kids, his wife possibly prefers European life style…
Unless he gets substantial money and a competitive team, I say he bolts back to Europe.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
As far as our ability to retain Manu, let’s not forget that the 2010 FA Market is gonna be a CLASSIC bubble situation. Lots of FA’s are gonna get over-market value, because teams have painted themselves into a corner with their fanbases about how to move forward/sell season tickets. If Bron and Wade both re-sign, the second tier of Bosh, Stoudemire, Johnson, Boozer, etc. ends up with huge contracts, and the ripple effect is that teams like the Bulls are FORCED to overpay someone else if they want to sell season tickets.
Therein comes Manu. I’m getting scared that we won’t be able to retain him even for his current salary, given the scenario above.
March 30th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Good point Bushka
March 30th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Bushka,
if you believe we can win this year, than I agree with your post, but since it seems to me noone here believes that, then I don’t see what hopes you can possibly have next year…
Because yes, you can improve the team, but unless you get someone like Horry or Odom you don’t beat the Lakers.
And anyway, either he’s injured and they’re not saying, or Duncan is the one we should worry about the most. The way he’s laboring now it looks like he won’t make it to the end of next season.
No Duncan means no help defence, no passing out of the post, means no Spurs as we know them. It also means the team itself will not believe they can make it.
Lakers - Bynum 87, they are and rebuilding at the same time.
Cavs - LeBron ’84, no disrespect to the other players you mentioned, but at this point in their career it could be a lot many other players next to James.
Boston - They are our mirror image in alot of ways, and just like us if everything goes their way they may win the title, but if they don’t all their players have lost value. Who do you trade Allen for now?
KG with that contract and that knee?
Pierce would have gotten them a lot in return last summer, but this summer?
March 30th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Francesco -
You might very well be right, but until Real, CSKA, or Olympiakos make an actual offer, I’m skeptical. Even last week we heard rumors of a bid from Real, but those turned out to be untrue. Manu, through his agent, has even said he’s going to finish his career in the NBA.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
@ Francesco
I seem to remmeber we rebuilt around an aging David Robinson, and that worked out just great. Its good to see the passing of the torch from one era of players to another. What makes you think we cant do that same rebuilding process with Tim and Manu?
March 30th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Bushka,
I totally agree. I think our main problem right now is guard play. As in, as much as I like Hill, any team that has to rely on him as the best guard by a longshot is going to be in trouble. Temple and Hairston aren’t going to get it done, at least right now. Used to be we could bail ourselves out by running our offense through TD, but obviously that’s not going to work anymore. He’s still great but he is no longer able to carry a team by himself. Manu can, but can’t play the minutes to do it all season.
As constructed we have a good team, if our key pieces our health. No guarantee I know, but winning it all ain’t easy and we still have a chance in the TD era. We just beat the Cavs and Celtics without one of the big 3.
Here’s the way I see it. If TP comes back reasonably healthy, Tim doesn’t slow down anymore this season, and Manu keeps his health we have a shot to make waves this playoffs. If the big 3 take the summer off (and we resign Manu) then I’ll feel really good about next year. Especially with some of the young guys improving (and maybe Splitter, fingers crossed).
If we lose Manu then we won’t win be winning a championship in the next couple of years. Just look at what happened last night. With Manu we beat the Cavs and Celtics, without him we can’t even beat the Nets. Manu is a fantastic player at a reasonable price. We cannot afford anyone else who is that good. At best we could get someone worse who is healthier and plays more but let’s face it, we need to gamble on Manu’s health because a merely good player probably isn’t going to get it done, especially with TD’s play descending to merely mortal levels.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Infamous,
We rebuilt around Robinson after we drafted at #1, then we rebuilt around Duncan after we landed two players worthy of #1 pick.
If you want to rebuild around Manu you need to have HIGH LOTTERY PICKS, but how do you get them if you don’t finish last and/or trade someone?
March 30th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
@Francesco
I wouldn’t consider Parker worthy of #1 pick, but I’m sure there is a team out there that agrees with you on this, which is why we package Parker for young talent.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Tyler,
It’s not that Real made an offer, they just let it be known that, if Manu were to be interested, that’s the kind of money they’d be ready to throw at him.
I didn’t read those comments you refer to, but I read these ones:
http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/30032010/47/nba-ginobili-abre-madrid-bar.html
- Manu, terminas contrato. ¿Tú quieres seguir aquí en San Antonio?
Mira, aquí me he sentido siempre muy bien y me sigo sintiendo bien. Pero cuando uno es agente libre tiene que estar dispuesto a escuchar todas las voces y todas las ofertas que lleguen, ponerlas encima de la mesa y decidir. Obviamente me he sentido aquí muy bien, pero tampoco sé qué puede venir después de julio. Así que cuando llegue el momento me sentaré con mi mujer y decidiré qué hacer o quién me quiere más.
- Y en esto no descartas jugar en Europa.
No. Nunca está descartado. Yo prefiero quedarme aquí pero si no me gusta nada o las ofertas no son las que yo espero, no dudaría en poder ir a Madrid o Barcelona… A un buen equipo, un lugar donde merezca la pena. Dudo que sea este año pero ya veremos.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Francesco,
I think it’s a bit disingenuous to put it in those terms.
I don’t think we can win it all this year(though I’d be nothing short of ecstatic to be proven wrong), but I think if we can add to this years mix with Tiago Splitter and some health plus a seasoned Blair and a comfortable McDyess we’ll be a substantially better team. Not to mention RJ surely cannot do anything but improve on this years contributions…right? lol
If we add Splitter, we really are a very solid team. He is a fantastic addition that lets you have a legit 7 footer who can do a little bit of everything well to start next to Tim, and play smart Spurs style basketball.
That extra big coupled with the continued emergence of Dejaun, and a more comfortable McDyess means you really have depth in the frontline and you really can have easy minutes across the board for Duncan.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Bushka,
McDyess will be 36 next year, the way I see it, for a title team, he can provide no more than experience and 10 minutes a game.
As for Splitter, I would like too to sign him at the midlevel money, but like I stated in my opening post, he can get 60-70% more in Europe… or from another NBA team with cap space.
But again, let’s say we have a reasonably healthy Duncan and McDyess, an improved Blair and a stellar rookie campaign from Splitter: do you see our frontcourt beating GASOL-ODOM-BYNUM ?
I agree that RJ can only do better.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Sorry, my mistake, McDyess will in fact be 37
March 30th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
@Francesco .. great pep talk and everything…
but
So bloggers here have to decide if they are Spurs fans, or they if they are only fans of the glorious team of the last decade and want to painfully watch them die away like Bird’s Celtics.
… For real ? Wow we are so lucky, I really taught they paid ppl 200k/year for that..
March 30th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Hi Gary,
I have to apologize because at times my English is not good enough.
Could you please explain/rephrase your last sentence? I didn’t get its meaning
Thanks
March 30th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
I don’t see us beating that front line, but I do see our front line competing a lot harder with those guys, and assuming we have Manu Tp & George, I see our guard rotation beating their guard rotation quiet comfortably.
I don’t think we can have the best of both worlds, but I do think we can narrow the gap in the areas where we are deficient.
To me it is really about resting Tim and getting him help.
March 30th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
@Franky Boy
oh yeah, what I mean is : You think we have any power what-so-ever on the team’s front office ?
March 30th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Francesco:
“We rebuilt around Robinson after we drafted at #1, then we rebuilt around Duncan after we landed two players worthy of #1 pick.
If you want to rebuild around Manu you need to have HIGH LOTTERY PICKS, but how do you get them if you don’t finish last and/or trade someone?”
First of all, as you said, we drafted 2 players WORTHY of #1 picks (ish, but okay), not actual #1′s. not lottery, and only even barely first round, in the case of Tony.
Then you say: we have to tank to get a #1 again if we want to improve.
Um, what? Our drafting savvy got us where we are, you say, but instead of relying on draft savvy, we should just burn it down and start over, hoping to get another #1.
Ok. Sure thing #1′s only come along every 3-4 years. Duncan was one, Bron obviously another, kinda Durant (don’t get me started on why Pritchard shoulda been fired on the spot for picking Oden.) Anyways the point is: exploding the team for the sake of another EXTREMELY lucky draw like the one that got us Duncan (the spurs had only about a 9% chance at the #1 in the 97 draft, if i remember right) is bad, bad, bad strategy. It’s Knicks strategy.
Drafting well has already gotten us a decent future foundation in Hill, Blair, and Splitter. What’s obviously missing is a wingman of Ginobili’s caliber, but being one piece away is always a good place to be in the NBA. Sure, since none of the above are GOAT-level guys, that last piece would have to be the best of the bunch if we’re gonna compete for titles with that club. But MVP guys pop up in the late sometimes. Like, Bryant.
Trades are just an awful idea. You can’t get a player who can bring you titles that way, and even if you could (i.e. what the Knicks and Nets and Bulls are trying to pull this offseason), you have to sell the farm. Which would mean Duncan, Ginobili, EVERYONE gone.
March 30th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
Not sure if it’s been mentioned here, but Joe Posnanski offered up a rebuttle to Dan Shaughnessy’s reply to his original article. Soak it in here http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/joe_posnanski/03/30/duncan.counterpoint/index.html
March 30th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
Bushka,
I agree. You can’t trade anyone. It seems that all the nay sayers are just worried about what if? what if Manu gets hurt? What if TP gets hurt? You just have to roll with it.
Look at Greg ODEN. No one knew he was going to be made out of Fiddle Faddle.
I for one think the SPURS still have a shot at winning this year. They are playing the best that they have been all year. Once TP comes back then they will be even better.
Plus, as inconsistent as they have been, with a few more wins they could have been challenging for the 2nd spot.
My point is, they might go into the playoffs as the team we envisioned at the beginning of the season
March 30th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
“I for one think the SPURS still have a shot at winning this year. They are playing the best that they have been all year.”
They do have a vanishingly small shot. But everyone wants trade big and trade now seems like they follow the Spurs only, and not the rest of the league.
Look, the league is gonna get seismically re-aligned next season, depending on where Bron and Wade go, and what effect those 2 contracts, along with alotta others, have on the CBA.
we have a very small but hopeful shot at the title this year. planning for beyond that, it’s much smarter to wait and see where the chips fall after next offseason.
March 30th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
100%.
We are much better off adding a splitter or someone of that ilk and waiting to see where to from there.
March 30th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Slippery slope Senor Francesco… you tell others they can’t compare players careers (like Jordan/Kobe to Manu) but you try to compare Spurs ability to rebuild to the pasts of Boston and others…. faulty logic all over your comments.
So you say you’re a blogger? Is this your blog? Then why do you think this is your place to say your opinions are right and other people don’t know what they’re talking about. Quit hiding behind the term blogger (lame anyways) and why not actually try to get in the business and see what would happen if you ever became a GM. Most likely from what I’ve read… you’d crash and burn.
But hey, here’s a novel idea… what if we trusted Popovich and RC Buford and their team? Wow, imagine not being so involved with your own ideas and relying on the guys who brought you 4 championships since ’99, got two superstars (Robinson & Duncan) to take smaller roles so the team is better, drafted steals in the late parts of draft (Parker, Ginobli, Hill, Blair, Splitter, Scola, Barbosa), and are the franchise most modeled after (I mean Kerr in Phoenix, Ferry in Cleveland, etc…)
Maybe one deal that hasn’t gone their way of the past decade has been the RJ deal… but we knew it’d be a risk and they firmly believed, as I bet you did, the Spurs could still get something out of the Big Three. And you know what? I for one agree with whoever said it on here before: I believe we could still win it. Albeit it is a disappearing chance with each injury, but I’d love to see TD, Manu, and TP all on the floor and healthy… and I think LA and the rest of the west is a bit nervous about that possibility.
So quit writing off your team before the season is over. Be a fan.
Oh and I’m pretty sure Manu and Tony have said they love San Antonio and are in no hurry to leave.
March 30th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
I think we should retain our big three manu duncan parker until duncan retires. If jefferson plays crappy this playoff time, then we should trade him for someone who is similar to camby. Tall shot blocking center. We have always had one, nazr mohammed and and some other tall white guy 7 footer I forgot his name. Anyways we always had a tall big next to duncan in all four of our titles. We had the mistake of choosing mcdyess over channing frye, who is like a younger mcdyess and matt boner combined. A big who can shoot the three ball. I think we really need to get out of that 8th seed. I would rather play utah than thw lakers right now.
March 30th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
If we sign splitter we are a very strong team next year with the current squad . If we don’t , we will no doubt look at the trade market more intensely and guys like Tony and Richard are the likely bait
March 30th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
Tyler
March 30th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
You could be right about that. If that’s the case, let’s hope we’re all prepared for an even longer drought from title contention.
And I agree with your price on Manu. Unfortunately, it’s likely that they’re are at least a few teams willing to go higher.
Infamous
March 30th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
We did not “build” around David Robinson. We built our team around one of the biggest studs to ever come out of the draft, after he first put one foot on the floor: Tim Duncan. We of course were lucky to get TD, and it allowed the aging David to have a young, mega talented front court support beside him, which enabled him to get a title before retiring. Tim could very much use the same type of help now, but of course it doesn’t need to be as superlative.
Bushka
March 30th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Splitter is a key variable in your equation for a “much improved front line”. The problem is, it appears that signing him is an unlikely prospect. Then what?
Phoebus
March 30th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
“Trades are just an awful idea. You can’t get a player who can bring you titles that way, and even if you could (i.e. what the Knicks and Nets and Bulls are trying to pull this offseason), you have to sell the farm. Which would mean Duncan, Ginobili, EVERYONE gone.”
To say that trades can’t be the way to go is ludicrous. As just one example, Gasol got the Lakers a title and they gave up Kwame Brown.
junierizzle
March 30th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
phoebus
March 30th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Let’s stick with reality here. The Spurs would be VERY fortunate to get to the Western Finals this year; it would be nothing short of a MIRACLE if they were to win a title. More than likely, they get an 8th seed and are out in round one. And the NJ game could indeed turn out to be the one we needed to avoid that fate.
March 31st, 2010 at 3:46 am
Pop and the FO just tried to ride a wave of good fortune long after it turned into a ripple.
Simply put,
What good does having great character guys do you, if those players have more character than talent?
I understand that they dont want a squad full of Ben Rothlesburger’s, but signing and playing horrible players in order to have a Forrest Gump type locker room vibe is ridiculous.
March 31st, 2010 at 5:42 am
In reality, with the current roster and TD’s health, the season is over. And I agree that we should stick with the big 3 at least one more year but, only if they can get an above average big or two to help Tim.
Either way; Go Spurs Go!!
March 31st, 2010 at 6:02 am
Some poster’s seem to think the Spurs aren’t that good. If our guys do have more character than talent, then our roster if full of Gandhi and Mother Teresa types.
Look, Sagarin’s Predictor has us ranked 5th in the league right now, based off scoring difference and strength of schedule. Hollinger’s rankings have us 4th ,based on difference between offensive and defensive efficiency and strength of schedule. Also, his ranking is waited more heavily towards the last 25% of the season.
Efficiency differential and point differential are better predictors of future success than win loss ratio. The main reason the Spurs don’t have a good record (as we’re used to, lots of teams would love our record.) is that we lost a lot of close games. Without Manu or Tony healthy, we didn’t have the guards to close out games. We get one of them back at 100%, and all of a sudden we’re playing really well. Manu has been one of the best clutch players throughout his career.
We’re not likely to win it all this year, because of TP’s struggles, but we’re not that far off from being elite. Why blow things up when with a little luck we’d be on the verge right now? TD’s time is almost done, plenty of time to worry about rebuilding then.
March 31st, 2010 at 6:43 am
our priority this summer should be to sign/trade (for) a rotation big that can split time with tim duncan. duncan is no longer capable of playing an entire season averaging 31 minutes per game.
hopefully tiago splitter values competition over money and comes to play for us. he may get peanuts now, but if he proves to be valuable, then the money will role in for him. we should sign mahinmi to our summerleague as one of our backup plans in case tiago doesn’t come across the pond. and if ian proves again to be unworthy and tiago stays in europe, then we talk trade. unfortunately, that trade may have to include dejuan blair.
March 31st, 2010 at 7:44 am
Assuming we can resign Manu to a reasonable number, adding Splitter next year should make us 5-6 games better.
Put it this way - with a dependable, shot blocker to hold down the defense when TD is out, I think we’d be challenging Dallas for the division title right now. (And before you say anything, Ian is not that guy)
And if Splitter doesn’t sign with us, I think there are alternatives:
Sheldon Williams
Tyrus Thomas (if he doesn’t get a qualifying offer)
Hakeem Warrick
Brendan Haywood
Johan Petro
Ben Wallace
Drew Gooden
Steven Hunter
Kurt Thomas
Darko Milicic
Tony Battie
Sean Williams
Etan Thomas
Louis Amundson
Marcus Camby
Juwan Howard
Jon Brockman
Amir Johnson
Rasho Nesterovich
Kyrylo Fesenko
I’m probably getting ahead of myself, but these are all guys that will be FA’s this offseason according to Hoops Hype. Now for a number of reasons, many guys on this list have little to no shot at donning the silver and black. Some will demand more $ than we have to offer (Haywood), while the talent of some is questionable (Hunter, Fesenko). Nonetheless, I think there will be a handful of guys that will be available.
March 31st, 2010 at 8:28 am
Trade deadline is behind us. You can’t trade Manu anymore. The very moment this season is over he is free agent. I don’t know what you guys are talking about.
March 31st, 2010 at 8:49 am
FO made some realy bad moves with McDyees( 3 yeras aroun 15 mill???) and RJ. They take too much money and don’t give you enough in return. Also RMJ is just not good enough for what we hoped he will be. We should not resign him, give Hairston his minutes and part of his money. I say try to trade RJ after season is over(maybe I am crazy but I think we still have some chances this year). Nobody is gonna take McDyees and his salary. To resign Manu(3 year , team option last year) and finaly bring Tiago Spliter my man Tim Duncan needs to do what David Robinson did, take a paycut. To be honest, he is not 20 mill player anymore. Is he gonna do what David did? I doubt it.
March 31st, 2010 at 10:30 am
Come back healthy, Manu.
We need you.
March 31st, 2010 at 1:08 pm
I fully expect us to MURDER the Rockets tonight
March 31st, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Tyler
March 31st, 2010 at 7:44 am
If we insist on “tinkering”, continuing with the band-aid strategy (getting a little late in the game for this, don’t you think?), I would suggest that there’s really just five players off that list that are either modestly realistic to acquire or sufficient enough as players to appreciably improve our team commensurate with being in the “realm” of title consideration if everything “went alright”:
Tyrus Thomas (stretch to get)
Brendan Haywood (stretch to get)
Marcus Camby (good option, but 36)
Amir Johnson (unknown, but I like him)
Rasho Nesterovich (any gas left?)
Perhaps Erik Dampier?
manufan
March 31st, 2010 at 8:28 am
You ever hear about “sign & trade” deals?!
April 1st, 2010 at 6:11 pm
How can you trade a winner who will take us all the way this year? Only Kobe is bigger, but Manu will take us one step at a time. First playoffs, we’re almost there. Then beat the lakers (the hardest challenge), then winning the NBA finals. Who in their right mind can even think of trading the spark of this team? Number 4 for Manu, number 5 for Tim, and then repeat next year. That’s the righ pick. I said two months ago, if you know him, you know he’ll get the job done. Go spurs Go!!
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