Wednesday, September 8th, 2010...6:54 am
Luis Scola rubs salt in old wounds
I watched and TiVo’d yesterday’s Brazil vs. Argentina game looking to write another Tiago Splitter post for those who might not have had the opportunity to watch it.
Shortly after the game I deleted the program with almost nothing of note on Splitter, mostly because Luis Scola was too depressingly dominant to pay attention to anything else.
There were other notable storylines to be sure. The game itself was terribly exciting and begs the question of why Brazil (and former Argentina) coach Rudy Magnano is not heard of in NBA circles more often, given that he appears to be one of the top coaches in the world.
But the story of the night was best summarized in a Tweet from Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey, “Scola goes into video game god mode to finish off Brazil. Wow.”
That’s not to say that Tiago Splitter did not do some nice things San Antonio Spurs fans should be excited about. There was the pick and roll defense, which should plug a leak in the Spurs defense. The nice pass to teammate Anderson Varejao. A few nice passes actually. But based off what admittedly is a small sample size, comparing the two will be an exercise in disappointment for Spurs fans.
That’s because in terms of gap in ability, Tiago Splitter might be to Luis Scola what Brazilian teammate Leandro Barbosa is to Manu Ginobili.
Perhaps it’s not fair to call them watered down versions of their Argentine counterparts. Both Barbosa and Splitter are nice pieces who would be welcomed with open arms on most NBA rosters. But Ginobili and Scola, they have it in them to carry teams through stretches.
Last week our own Andrew McNeill wrote about the death of the Spurs role player. Not too long ago the Spurs could afford to simply surround their big three with role players whose only responsibilities were to defend and play off Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and Ginobili.
In his current form, Tiago Splitter certainly fits that mold. Perhaps better than any recent role player not named Robert Horry or Bruce Bowen. But to borrow from Andrew’s post:
The transition from shopping for role players to searching for stars will begin. They can’t expect to land the number one overall pick in the draft and select a franchise cornerstone like Duncan and David Robinson. Again. Nor do the Spurs have international prospects stashed overseas with the potential for greatness like Ginobili and Parker.
Like Fabricio Oberto before him, Tiago Splitter is a player whose talents seem best suited to fit around Duncan. Luis Scola? Scola is playing like a cornerstone who could be stepping into his offensive role and replacing him for stretches of the season.
Defensively, Splitter might be better. But the other intangibles he possesses, Scola matches and surpasses. Both have solid footwork, but Scola has the body to establish and hold position and the touch to capitalize on them that Splitter has failed to show in the two games I have watched.
Scola has every bit the intuition and concept of spacing that makes Splitter a fantastic pick and roll player, only he also has a sweet jump shot with range (several of them barely moved the net yesterday as they swished through).
In short, Scola is one of those cornerstones the San Antonio Spurs did not know they needed to be looking for a few years back. Tiago Splitter is good, but still a piece entirely dependent on an aging core.
58 Comments
September 8th, 2010 at 7:08 am
I completely agree with the article and once again, so painful to see Lufa not playing for San Antonio Spurs…
September 8th, 2010 at 7:16 am
I love the barboza-Manu / Splitter- Scola analogy. It´s right on the money. Scola is a great player, as intangible as Manu can be, and extremely clutch. It´s unfair ( though irresistable) to compare Splitter with his former teamate Scola, however, as much as the Spurs need Splitter right now, and he should provide some help, Scola was the better option. It seems like this will be the new spurs fan debate for the next three years, replacing the old “who is better, manu or parker debate“ ( Which I think everybody can now agree Manu is the man).
One more thing, unlike Barbosa, Splitter is a better defender, more team player and has better shot selection, so, he should be able to have a better impact than Barbosa to a team.
September 8th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Nice piece.
The Scola situation is definitely the biggest mistake our front office has made in the last decade - no two ways about it. Though the “fit” was questioned at the time, in hindsight it looks like Scola would be a perfect remedy for what ails the Spurs. How nice would a true low post/pick and roll threat be to compliment the rest of the gang? Impossible to guard.
Sigh.
September 8th, 2010 at 7:41 am
I choose not to debate “What if?”
I choose what we have.
I choose Splitter.
I choose the Spurs.
There really was more to the non-signing than just money; didn’t Scola pretty much REFUSE to come to SA?
September 8th, 2010 at 8:09 am
I agree that Scola would have been a good fit for the Spurs and no doubt would be of immense help to our front line. However, Scola played out of his mind yesterday. As I stated in the previous blog, he was playing so well that when he TRIED to brick his last free throw, he accidentally banked it in. There’s no question Scola has been a successful NBA player, but he hasn’t and won’t be as dominant as he was yesterday. His game against Brazil was simply an anomaly. If Scola had the same success in the NBA as he has against FIBA competition, he would be a top 3 PF in the league.
Would the Spurs be better with Scola: yes of course we would. Can Scola morph into a top 5 PF at the age of 30: no. Scola will be a good 3-4 option on a contender, but cannot carry a franchise.
September 8th, 2010 at 8:09 am
I think you’re vastly overestimating Scola’s value based on his FIBA performance. The guy is 30 years old, just came off an NBA season where he averaged his career best 16 and 8, and he was routinely lit up by every power forward he faced.
Scola isn’t a cornerstone. He’s not going to be an all-star. He’s a fine complimentary player.
The leading scorers in the FIBA tournament are Luis Scola, Yi Jianlin, Hamad Hadaddi, Kirk Penney and Linas Kleiza. You could make an NBA team out of that group - and they’d suck.
September 8th, 2010 at 8:35 am
I agree with Ryan… He has several points. Let’s also point out Scola put up 20 shots… compared to Tiago going what 3-5? The Argentine offense went thru Scola.. Splitter barely even touched the ball on offense and didn’t even start.
They both are good role players, but Scola has been the offensive focal point for Argentina since Manu left.
September 8th, 2010 at 8:52 am
@ SAJKinBigD
It was the buyout $. It was the fact that we already had 12 guaranteed contracts (I believe). It was the fact that the FO questioned the “fit” of Scola - we didn’t know if he would be ok with taking a backseat to TD. It was a number of factors.
In hindsight though, it still goes down as a major mistake.
And I second the idea that Scola is more of a complimentary player than a cornerstone. But if he’s your 4th option offensively, you’ve got a contender. Add him to our current roster and I think we are immediately the West’s 2nd best team and on the heels of the Lakers.
September 8th, 2010 at 9:09 am
Another point is that Scola has been developing and competing in the League the past few years. Of course he’s going to look better than Splitter. Let’s give Splitter some time in the League before we make too many conclusions. It’s just too early to tell. Plus there is an age difference. But I will agree Scola had one of those amazing unfogettable games. He does seem to possess that killer instinct and clutch that we so desire in players. Hence I understand that watching him play like he did yesterday brings our beloved Manu to mind.
I know that many fans have complaints about the NBA. But it’s interesting the way the league has developed so much globally that we have interests in players we wouldn’t have cared less about years ago. So many of the League’s players are competing internationally and we learn more about them through these tournaments. Everyday there is a story line playing out that could very well effect teams in the League. Which ones to trade or trade for, which ones to draft, which ones need more development overseas, etc.
September 8th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Whether he is a cornerstone guy or 4th option this guy is a very smart player. Rebounds very well (which the spurs needed next to Timmy for a few years now) and shoots a very high percentage. Very good passer as well, unselfish. He even shoots a good free throw percentage now. I just dont think theres an argument to say the Spurs FO didnt screw this up.
September 8th, 2010 at 9:34 am
Good piece on Scola and Splitter.
Has nothing to do with his being 30 years old. He is a baller. When I refer to him as a baller…He comes to play every night, is not intimidated, holds his ground, scores, and rebounds, and manages to stay on the court.
These qualities are the only qualities, period.
As for Splitter, we are fortunate to have him, but he is no replacement for Tim Duncan. Not even close. Nice piece, but no cigar!
Spurs didnt need to rebuild or to sign a team of all stars. They have been blessed with a seemingly simple task over the past few years….
Bring in quality supporting cast for 3 star players…5 if we include McDyess and RJ, who have been stars before.
Seems relatively simple.
Yet, this FO and coach have failed to get it done, for years now. Its not about hate or taking shots at these guys. It is about letting this FO and coach know that the fan base is watching. The fan base knows its value in the success of this franchise, and that the fan base wants to win, period! It’s certainly not personal, it’s business.
As far as letting Scola go…He didnt want to play for this coach and he didnt want to come off the bench. End of story. Great move on his part.
But, come on Spur Nation…
Should we run off a list of the quality players that the Spurs have either lost or chased away?
It would take the rest of the day….
September 8th, 2010 at 9:57 am
I agree with SAJKinBigD’ s four bullets.
Let’s cheer what we have and forget about the “what ifs”.
Go Spurs Go!!
September 8th, 2010 at 10:25 am
@ Ryan Schwan - “and they’d suck.” Very funny.
I hear that Scola isn’t the easiest guy to get along with (as per Manu and Oberto) and chemistry is highly valued by the Spurs.
What bothers me the most is that the Spurs couldn’t turn him into a future first round pick somewhere other than Houston. That’s where they really blew it.
Also I believe they were high at the time on Mahinmi and thought Splitter would be coming over sooner as well, and they would have been crowded in the front court. They guessed wrong and whiffed.
Splitter is here now and I believe he’s going to be a good fit for this team. As far as Argentine players go - we have the greatest of all in Manu. Period. End of discussion.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:25 am
I as well, think that the writer is placing too much “greatness” on Scola. Dont get me wrong - Scola was playing some incredible ball.
Last year, as the first/second option, he put up 16 and 8, which is very respectable. Does that remotely bring him into Manu’s class of player? No.
I think I speak for everyone when I say that we would no doubt be a better team if we had Scola.
Would it be the equivilent of having a 6’9″ Manu in the post? Hell No!
September 8th, 2010 at 10:38 am
Was this supposed to be a depressing write up?
Job well done.
I guess we can look forward to an aweful season and have no hope of this team going anywhere because it doesn’t have Scola.
Crying over spilt milk gets one no where.
I look forward to seeing what we got. How they play. And good luck to Splitter. He’ll need it now that he knows he’ll be compared to Scola while he’s on the Spurs.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:42 am
By the way. Ya’ll do know they play 2 totally different ways as well as positions.
Apples to apples would have been fair.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:49 am
@ Ballhog
“As far as letting Scola go…He didnt want to play for this coach and he didnt want to come off the bench.”
Well, that’s entirely false.
September 8th, 2010 at 10:54 am
this article reminds me of one buck harvey posted last season about how serge ibaka was what we hoped ian mahinmi would be for us. it sucks to have these negatives feelings of inadequacy towards splitter when compared to scola. splitter needs to work on his ecplosiveness. they both have a solid post game, but splitter lacks the quickness and agility. hopefully splitter will develop enough to run iso post plays
September 8th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
I really don’t see the need to get all wistful about what could have been with Luis Scola. Every team in the league could have had him, both in 2003 when his rights went 56th in the draft, and again in 2005 when the Spurs were solidifying the roster and trimming the loose branches.
The Spurs had unsuccessfully tried to bring him overseas, but contract negotiations with his Euroleague team were too much of an obstacle for the capped-out Spurs. Quotes from the new GM Daryl Morey made it clear the Spurs traded with their rivals reluctantly, and would have accepted the same offer from almost any other team first.
Anybody could have acquired the rights and persuaded him to come over. Scola was and is a tremendous value for his initial cost. It’s the Rockets’ story; kudos to them. The Spurs are the runners-up in the contest to recognize what kind of player he could be, unfortunately no prize for that.
Instead we got Fabricio Oberto and won another title with his help. The Rockets signed Steve Francis and floundered. Luis Scola turned out to be a Ginobili or Parker-level value for the investment, and that the Spurs were involved at all (again) is astonishing. There’s no right way to predict how good Splitter will be with our crazy outlier track record with Europeans.
September 8th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
dropping in to say that greyberger’s post echoes my thoughts exactly…especially the part about the 2007 championship. +1
September 8th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Two different players, teams, style ect… It isnt’ about splitter or scola, its about fiba rite now and scola happen to catch fire, he played on a rocket with no stars, put him on the spurs team and his number would’nt be as high. Splitter took a pay cut, scola?
No i rather have splitter anyday, you here what manu said. We have the best F.O. 4 rings # 5 is alive.
September 8th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
I certainly wish Scola was a Spur rather than a Rocket, but there are a few things missing from your analysis that I think favor choosing Splitter as the person to join the Spurs right now over Scola. Scola is 30 years old with several years NBA experience. He is as good as he is going to get. Splitter is 25 with no NBA experience — he is going to continue to get better, and barring injury or losing him to another team, he will be with the Spurs for years after Scola has retired.
September 8th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Splitter will be good in the NBA, he will be very good. Count on it.
September 8th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
First of all, Scola is very good, and if Yao comes back in top form by the 2nd half of the season the Rockets could be a very tough out indeed. That said, Scola is at his absolute peak right now, with 3 years of NBA experience under his belt. There’s no way to properly assess Splitter’s ultimate value compared to Scola at this point in time. We do know that they play different positions, and have different strengths to their game’s. Scola is more adept offensively, but Splitter looks to be the better low-post position defender (needs about 20 lbs.), and though Scola is a decent passer, Splitter looks to be an “exceptional” passer for a front court player (and unusually adept at taking charges for a big man). As you know, passing can be a very valuable attribute, particularly for a player that develops a consistent mid-range game (e.g. Brad Miller, etc.). I also agree with others that Scola is much more of a complimentary player, not a consistent go-to guy on the offensive end, nor is he an impact player on the defensive end.
Bottom-line: we can’t yet say with any confidence whether Splitter will become more, or as-valuable as Scola to his team over the next three years. We do know that he will have adjustments to make at the NBA-level, and he will need to work hard to make meaningful improvements to his game over the next few seasons, as Scola has managed to do during his first three years in the league. It’s certainly possible, and good luck to Tiago & the Spurs to make it happen!
September 8th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
We have one, maybe two good years where we can rely on Splitter as a role player, helping to fill a few holes in our scheme. However, there has to be a time when Pop, or whoever is coaching, gives Tiago and Hill the keys to the car and tells him to drive us home. Robinson was there for Duncan’s first years and then stepped aside when Timmy was ready. Duncan will do the same.
Let’s hopefully have a well-rested team come opening day and be ready to win games, so we won’t need end of the year stretches to get in the playoffs.
September 8th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
I had a similar initial feeling, but I really think this post is an overreaction to one game. Not to put down Scola or imply I don’t wish he was on our team… but he’s in his prime playing as the man on that team, with guys he’s got great chemistry with. He had the game of his life. I still think Tiago can be equally good. He’s only 25.
September 8th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
@ jim I like your perspective. luis scola may be a better scorer, but we need is another solid post defender. tiago’s offensive game will grow, but he can make an immediate impact with his pick and roll and position defense. passing will be there too. scola is a hustler, but a below average position defender and has not shot blocking ability. tiago won’t jump out of the sky to swat some away, but he will disrupt amd occasionally get the well ppositioned blocks under the basket
September 8th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
let’s be honest, tim was ready from day 1. tiago will not be, but i think he’ll be a great player. not tim’s level, but i think he’s got an all-star ceiling.
i agree with much of the above regarding scola not being a cornerstone. yes, it was a blunder, but not a crucifying one. could we have won the 2008 title with him? it’s possible, but with l.a. and boston ascending, we can’t say. so i’m glad he’s having a good career, but am not feeling the remorse many express at his not being a spur. he’s a great player, but his nba work is above average as it is.
with tiago, i agree that we can judge him against scola, at least yet. give him a few years in the league, and we’ll talk. he’s 25 (didn’t realize he’s a new year’s day baby) to scola’s 30. his listed weight is 232 right? that’s good enough to guard most bigs in the league. what i fear is if he puts on more weight, he becomes even less explosive than he is now, and less mobile, which is one of his biggest assets to us defensively. we’ll see i guess.
September 8th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
also, i don’t know where people get that scola is hard to get along with. maybe i missed some reports? i know he just attended splitter’s wedding.
September 8th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
I can see why Splitter has had so much success in Europe. First of all, his mediocre athleticism is not as much of a disadvantage over there (in terms of physical talent & style of play). Secondly, and probably more importantly, the European/international game appears to be pay a relatively high premium to players that are smart & versatile, and that display uncanny instincts for the game from a holistic standpoint. In other words, players that consistently make a number of plays (not necessarily box-score recorded) in multiple facets of the game that help their team’s come up with a “W”. Sure, some players over there have a “specialty” (e.g., shooters), but the great majority have really fine instincts for the game as a whole, and even more so for the better players. And Splitter seems to fit this definition to a “T”. For example, his passing ability is not just talent & good schooling, but also appears to have a pretty strong “instinctual” component to it. And the same could be said for his skills on the defensive end. His ability to take charges with his limited physical gifts (average lateral quickness) is uncanny. He also seems to have unusually good anticipation in terms of pass deflections, as well as just a “nose for the ball.” These are fairly instinctual types of qualities that can add up to wins for a team, even when the box score appears underwhelming on the surface. As noted in a previous post, he will have some adjustments to make (e.g., to the speed/size/athleticism of opponents) during his first couple of NBA seasons, but he should definitely help us in year one, and has a shot at becoming more of an impact player in years 2-4, as Scola has and is about to do for Houston.
That said, we still need to make another move to improve our team’s chances of trying to get back to at least a WCF’s appearance. And in this regard, as others have alluded to on this thread, if Amundson is available for right around LLE money (2 mil. per) we would be CRAZY not to do everything we could do to nab him, even if that puts us at a relatively tight 6-man front line rotation (we would simply have to reduce Bonner & McDyess’ minutes, and give TD a little more rest). We could use Amundson’s energy & “rim protection” skills for 12-18 mpg. He and Splitter together would allow us a shot of getting closer to where we need to get defensively, as long as everybody else picked it up a notch as well.
September 8th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
I wonder why everyone is so hell bent over losing out on scola. Yes it would have been nice to keep him but it was a tough decision at this time. The spurs ownership doesnt have super deep pockets and they have always had to make smart cap concious decisions. Only in the last year did they go over to try to get a title in duncans final years.
Why does no one ever mention about missing out on josh howard? We drafted barbosa before howard and traded him away as well? What about picking dragic and sending him to the suns and then getting killed by him in the past playoffs? We also had john salmons and traded him away. But for the mistakes, you have to remember the positives, getting ginobilli in the second round, getting brent barry, getting finley, bringing over oberto, rasho nesterovich, all which helped us getting titles. Go Spurs Go
September 8th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
andy
September 8th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
“his listed weight is 232 right? that’s good enough to guard most bigs in the league. what i fear is if he puts on more weight, he becomes even less explosive than he is now, and less mobile, which is one of his biggest assets to us defensively.”
Yeah, on his frame, at his age I don’t see 20 lbs. hurting him speed-wise, particularly if accompanied by a great lower-body-strengthening and conditioning program. Weight can hurt mobility & speed more so in “really” big guys (260 lbs.+), or smaller guys like guards and SF’s where a nanosecond difference in speed can make a big difference at their position. And 20 lbs. of muscle for Splitter as an NBA center would definitely allow him to body up in the low post the “bigger” front court players in the league much better. I think we need Splitter to get to about 250-255 lbs., and a bit stronger overall.
September 8th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Should’ve, would’ve, could’ve.
Get over it. Obviously the SPURS would have kept him if they knew he was going to ball like this.
September 9th, 2010 at 4:21 am
I think it’s unfair to compare Splitter with Scola at this point. First, Scola has NBA exposure, while Splitter does not. If the NBA, as they say, is the best in the world, it would definitely push the player to their limit, and this is what happened to Scola. Second, the Argentinian team has been playing together for several years - they’re familiar with each other’s strengths and they were able to take advantage of that. Scola had to take up the slack, especially since they’re playing without their most important player, Manu. I do remember when Argentina played against the U.S. in Beijing, and it was Manu who’s whooping their butts down (and this is a team that included Lebron, Wade and Kobe), and then Argentina collapsed after Manu got injured. Scola is the go-to guy now, and he really has to step up. Third, Scola also became the centerpiece of a choking Houston Rockets last season, after Yao Ming missed it and T-Mac disappeared (figuratively, then physically). He’s used to the pressure and is more knowledgeable of the system, although I think Splitter also was the centerpiece of his team last season. Last, I think that it’s unfair to compare him with Horry or Bowen. Horry is practically the sidekick of excellent players in the NBA (Olajuwon, then Kobe & Co.), and Bowen’s pretty much into defense more than offense. Splitter would be pretty much a Duncan-type player (defense & offense), except when Timmy’s on the floor. Given these, I’ll give Splitter one season to adjust, and only after then would I say that he’s a watered down version of Scola if I see how he would contribute to the team.
Still, I’m impressed with how he’s playing in the FIBA. He might not be as dominant as Scola, but I think he’s taking it one step at a time. He’ll be a nice piece to the Spurs team next season, and now that he’s playing beside Duncan, I think he’ll start to flourish as a player and he might be one of the future Big Three (or Four) of the team. I have faith in him.
September 9th, 2010 at 4:49 am
I cannot believe that Scola, with several NBA seasons now under his belt, can be fairly compared to Splitter. JustinFL said it best…
“Another point is that Scola has been developing and competing in the League the past few years. Of course he’s going to look better than Splitter. Let’s give Splitter some time in the League before we make too many conclusions. It’s just too early to tell. Plus there is an age difference.”
Chill out! Timmy and Pop have yet to provide Splitter with their collective basketball wisdom on a daily basis for months, not to mention what NBA strength coaches will provide. I predict that by season’s end, in Splitter’s first year in the NBA, Splitter will already be worth more to most teams than Scola. Scola has always been a bit undersized for a PF, and a bit too big to match up well on a quick SF. I know, I know, we have to get past traditional stereotypes, but Scola now (possibly at his peak?) isn’t putting up numbers comparable to TD now, notwithstanding Yao having been out. Watch as Splitter puts up better numbers than Scola by his second NBA season, while TD STILL will have better numbers as well…
Read more: http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/09/08/luis-scola-rubs-salt-in-old-wounds/#comments#ixzz0z2G1wS4F
September 9th, 2010 at 7:13 am
@ spursfanbayarea: Josh Howard is a doof. I live in Dallas and the guy is a waste of talent. He would not fit Spurs Culture at all. That’s why no one talks about missing out on that one.
September 9th, 2010 at 10:08 am
[...] of Antonio McDyess, DeJuan Blair and Matt Bonner. …Brazil Hides Splitter Injury?Project SpursLuis Scola rubs salt in old wounds48 Minutes of Hell (blog)all 10 news [...]
September 9th, 2010 at 10:21 am
IN OTHER NEWS….
Matt Barnes is already in trouble and landed himself in county lock up for suspicion of domestic violence. There were plenty of posters upset we didnt’ go after him more. Well… there you have it. You can lump the pothead Josh Howard in that bunch. Don’t want em on this team and don’t need the circus either.
September 9th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
Varejão and Huertas said that Splitter injured his thigh during game play. That is why he did not start and played poorly.
September 9th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
I didn’t think Splitter played poorly. He wasn’t the star of the game, but he did fine.
I think Scola is a good player and had a great game against a rival. I would have liked to see him play for the Spurs, but they couldn’t agree on a contract.
Against Lithuania, Scola was 5/16 for 13 points and Argentina lost. No longer in video game god mode, I guess.
September 9th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
@ Dr Who…Are you a Judge? Just curious…
Matt Barnes had a domestic violence charge. Apparently he made a bad choice. Can you believe it?
Does that actually happen to people? Im sure it hasnt happened to Dr. Who.
Some people’s ugly choices are aired in public for all to see. This gives us all an opportunity to express our opinions about the occurance. With us regular Joe’s, most of our personal dirt is often in the closet, and stays in the closet…We have an advatage.
Open your closet and take a look!
Have you ever made a bad choice DR. WHO?
If ya did, have you been a total loss since? Im sure you havent….Some do recover.
Besides, as a soldier, I would rather have a bad azz in my foxhole any day of the week rather than a choir boy.
Part of the reason that the Spurs are not contenders today is this choice to try and employ players with impeccable character, at the expense of talent and will to win. Great idea, but no cigar!
Plus, we do continue to see teams win NBA titles year after year with players that do not have impeccable character…
Seems we are on the losing end of the stick in our infinate wisdom.
As for Matt Barnes…Lets not judge him unless we do it in his face.
He’s human!
September 9th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
BALLHOG
September 9th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
I don’t know if he’s guilty or not and yes, I was one of those who would have liked to have seen Barnes back up RJ at the SF position. In retrospect, I’m glad we didn’t sign him. I don’t necessarily agree with your post, but I thought this was interesting.
“Besides, as a soldier, I would rather have a bad azz in my foxhole any day of the week rather than a choir boy.”
You mean the kind of 6’7″ bad ass that pushes around women? As a soldier, you can’t seriously believe that this kind of guy is tough.
September 9th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Scola right now is the ceiling.
Splitter right now is at his basement.
In three years time when Tiago is 28 Luis is 33.
I’d love to have em both though if Houston wouldn’t mind.
September 9th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Well, Scola took a dump today vs Lietuva (Lithuania). 5-16 shooting, 13 pts and 4 rebounds. Lietuva’s D smothered him the entire game, making him shoot 18 footers, boxing him out on rebounds, hitting him when he went low. Argentina didn’t stand a chance today, especially with the way Lietuva was shooting 3 balls.
September 9th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
I don’t know if Barnes is guilty, but just the association of physical abuse to a woman makes me sick. It shows that person is as week as can be, not a “bad ass”.
Jason Kidd is one helluva baller, but I have hated him ever since he beat his wife. I can’t hardly stand to look at him for this reason. I am one of the few people that has actually been able to watch all 82+ games for the last several years, and I don’t know if I could handle that kind of person on the SPURS. I am glad that we have been able to stay as competitive as we have while hiring classy professionals.
My rant has come to an end. :-*
September 9th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
couldn’t help but laugh at this.
“Part of the reason that the Spurs are not contenders today is this choice to try and employ players with impeccable character, at the expense of talent and will to win. Great idea, but no cigar!”
What those stupid nice guys like Manu & Timmy Duncan, Bruce Bowen and David Robinson?
Every post ballhog. Every post is about how the front office did it wrong, even when the evidence all points to the contrary.
Your like the guy on the corner shaking plastic bags at passing traffic. Just totally out of sync.
September 9th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
@SAJKinBigD
You are correct that J.howard now is a big doof . But he wasnt always. And whose to say he wouldnt have flourished under the leadership of the spurs. Problem with dallas is that they didnt have that leader like duncan. Howard used to be good for 12-18 pts a game, solid defense, create own shot. Also if we had him, we wouldnt have gone after richard jefferson. Hopefully jefferson does better as players typically play better in year 2 in the spurs system. I dont really care about losing out on howard, just trying to put into perspective for people that we have lost out on other players and not to get bent over losing scola.
September 9th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
Not only that losing Scola sucks; had we signed Scola instead of Oberto, we wouldn’t have signed Antonio McDyess last season. We probably could have used the mid-level money to sign Trevor Ariza instead (and thus not needing to trade for Richard Jefferson). Not only would we have a strong preimeter defender to replace Bowen in Ariza, the money we are paying Jefferson can be used to strengthen other areas. It’s all domino effects.
Parker-Ginobili-Ariza-Scola-Duncan would have rocked so much.
September 9th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
fwiw, i’m not that high on ariza. good for him for cashing in on his great playoffs, but good for us for not biting. shows morey’s acumen in his willingness and ability to dump him so soon.
so scola came back down to earth against lithuania. doesn’t mean he’s a bad player, just not consistently in god mode. he’s going to be vulnerable against taller, more athletic bigs. that said, i’d still have loved to see him in a spurs uni, and wish we would’ve kept him. no crying over spilt milk though.
on a final note from me re: matt barnes. i’m with diehard. i’ll reserve final judgment until after he’s convicted, but it doesn’t look good for him. guys who beat on women are the lowest of scum. i’ve seen it across the world, and no matter where it is, that is inexcusable. yes, we’ve all made stupid mistakes, but domestic violence cannot be one of them if you’re a real man. i thought it would be good to have barnes as a spur, but now i’m ecstatic we didn’t sign him. i like a professional on and off the court. we don’t need all saints on our team, but i wouldn’t root for the spurs if we were the jailblazers.
September 9th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Besides, as a soldier, I would rather have a bad azz in my foxhole any day of the week rather than a choir boy.
This particular bad azz has been in 8 different foxholes in 8 seasons. Seems like his fellow soldiers aren’t too anxious to keep him around.
September 10th, 2010 at 8:15 am
Point taken, spursfanbayarea. There really is no need to keep harping on this situation as it’s irreversible and done.
Look forward, not backward, and you won’t trip over whatever obstacles lie in wait!
September 10th, 2010 at 8:21 am
the bottom line is that every front office makes mistakes. RC & co. are no different.
this is because management’s job is projecting the talents of one prospect into a different league, team, and situation. it’s a guessing game. particularly when it comes to players who haven’t reached (or may never reach) their “destined” potential.
and so to live in extremes in judging the FO is asinine. they’re not basketball wizards-everything they touch will not turn into gold. likewise, they’re not choir boys who will trade talent for boy scout badges.
i don’t begrudge the spurs for taking fliers on players like mahinmi or wondering about the chemistry issues with a player like scola. (but it does make it painful when hindsight’s 20/20 is actually 20/10-as is the case is with the misjudgment of scola).
but it’s just part of the business. and i like the way the spurs have handled it: carefully weighing character, talent, & and on-the-court chemistry with their proven players…and then making their choices.
September 10th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
@Ballhog
doggydogworld sums it up in a few sentences:
This particular bad azz has been in 8 different foxholes in 8 seasons. Seems like his fellow soldiers aren’t too anxious to keep him around.
Just because the FO doesn’t want to hire people with character issues, that doesn’t mean they target no talent choir boys. Think about your post for a second Mr. Hogg. As an employer, I hire people who can do their jobs well and will be dependable. How is our FO any different? If someone is talented but has a checkered past, you leave that headache for someone else. You want people that will show up to work and you don’t have to worry about if they are in jail or creating insubordination. You see no correlation that the guy was labeled as not great in the lockeroom, has had a checkered past, bounced around from team to team (no one wanted to commit to the guy and hold on to him) and then behold he finds himslef in jail for domestic abuse??? It would be one thing if this was an isolated incident but he’s garnered a “rep” if you will already. How is it that a majority of other players in the league have managed to stay out of situations like that? What makes Barnes a bad ass for being thrown in jail? Anyone can do that. I could do it right now by walking outside my office and punching someone in the face. Badass… nope; stupid act with a lack of class and reastraint… yes. Your fox hole very well might be empty if your baddazz was disobeying orders and got thrown in the brig, or took off and found himself a bottle of scotch during the spoils of war. You want dependable soldiers who can follow orders and “intelligently” think for themselves. I don’t see Barnes as a military guy. That whole discipline and following orders thing… can’t see that being his cup of tea. Perhaps I’m wrong.
September 10th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
@alohaspur
I think you summed it up about right. Sure it sucks and we missed the boat on Scola. But every FO screws up. Luckily ours doens’t do it as often as others. We didnt’ miss the boat on Manu or Tony and the recent moves of Hill, Blair and Splitter appear very promising. You can go thru the draft about every year talking about what teams missed out on. The Spurs are no different but we have a pretty migh number of hits to misses compared to other organizations. How many teams wish they’d taken Parker, Manu, Hill or Blair with their late round draft picks? I remember how upset Indiana natives were that they didn’t draft “Mr. Indiana” Steve Alford with their 11th pick. Instead they picked up some clown named Reggie Miller. I think they did OK with that pick. Win some… lose some. What burns a bit more with Scola is that he plays right donw the freeway and he just so happens to be on the same national team as Manu. Would have been great to see Fab, Manu and Scola passing to each other. But alas we can only look forward.
September 10th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
i think we can’t compare both right now
scola has always been good. when he start with the rockets he was rising , and now that he is at his best is obviusly better than splitter, but you have to see that scola is 30 and is in his prime, splitter is 24 mvp of spanish league but he still not even play in the nba, for me there’s no doubt that he will become a much better player
how much better and how long it will takes? i don’t know .. but then it will be a fair comparison.
manu improve his game in 2005 for the championship and he was in the allstar game with 28, for me the last season was his best and he was 32
September 11th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
I come to this article and the responses a few days after but I must put in my 2 cents. First and foremost, the author should not have made this a comparison article about Scola vs. Splitter, Manu or anyone else. It ain’t about the FIBA game where Scola went off against Brazil. It is about what hap-pened since the Spurs drafted Scola in 2002. The FO went back & forth with his international team about when & how much $ to get him here for 5 years before we traded his rights to Houston. His production as an NBA pro? 3 years- ppg improved from 10 to 16; averaged over 8 rbs the last 2 seasons; 51% FG & 74% FT career avg, while not missing a game (yes, 246 straight). IMO he has been the most consistent and productive Rocket during the his time there, given the injuries to TMac and Yao, plus the roster turnover they’ve experienced. In those 3 seasons, don’t you think if Scola was in the Spurs lineup, things could have gone differently against LA - ’08/Mavs-’09/Suns-’10?. That is the point the author was trying to make, but he blew it with the comparisions. Some of the fans got past that, but most didn’t. Cut out any mention of Splitter (it would half cut the article in half) & end the piece with this question- “If Luis Scola was a San Antonio Spur from the 2007-08 season to now, would the franchise be in possession of a 5th, or possibly a 6th ring?
September 12th, 2010 at 10:22 am
DorieStreet
September 11th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
“Cut out any mention of Splitter (it would half cut the article in half) & end the piece with this question- “If Luis Scola was a San Antonio Spur from the 2007-08 season to now, would the franchise be in possession of a 5th, or possibly a 6th ring?”
For me, the ensuing commentary and answer to your question would have been brief: NO. The Spurs have not made it to another title these past few years because of a meaningful devolution as a team defensively. Scola’s “game” would not have been enough to get us over the top. “D” is far from his top attribute.
September 12th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
Splitter is the better option play alongside Timmy, and Scola is the better option to one day to replace Timmy when he retired.
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