Malik Hairston heads to Italy

now that the suns have obtained hedo and childress, is there any chance that grant hill might be available? and if there is, couldnt we try to sign and trade roger mason to them for about 3 mil? then they would have richardson, mason, hedo, and childress on the wings… just saying

This team lost in the playoffs because it could not score consistently, could not rebound consistently, and could not defend consistently.

Has the team addressed these deficiencies? NO!

Splitter, as talented as he is believed to be, has never bounced a ball on an NBA court. Jury is still out…

Anderson is a rookie and therefor, subject to dealing with this coach, who feels that youth cannot contribute.

They go out and grossly over pay for Jefferson, re-sign Bonner, and let Hairston skip town. Didnt go after Shaq or Matt Barnes.

A front court of PF’s with no true center will not get it done in today’s NBA and we all know it.

All of this, I still hear all of this praise for this coach and FO. Scares me because it means that we have the type of fan base that doesnt know basketball and is easily duped…

This roster makes no sense and we are not ready. Mcdyess and Blair are not NBA centers. Bonner is not an NBA player, and who knows how Splitter reacts while playing against the likes of Kevin Garnett, David West, Dirk, etc…

Season hasnt even started and already, we are sucking…

As for Hairston, I applaud his decision. Sitting on the bench behind Mason and Bogans had to be the hardest thing he had ever endured. Leaving this coach and FO probably saved his career.

This Fo and coach should be on thier knees begging Shaq to come to San Antonio,

Why?

As it stands, No team will shake in their boots at the prospect of playing the Spurs. Lining up against Bonner and Splitter is not exactly intimidating.

But, maybe miracles are possible and Bonner makes the all star team and leads us to the promise land…

Yeah….Right!

Im just wondering how long we will be forced to endure Pop and company…

The only team that good NBA players want to avoid more is Cleveland…

Sad!

@ Jim Henderson

You make a lot of valid points about the need for the Spurs to add quality role players for rebounding and shotblocking purposes. The FO is clearly banking on the fact that Splitter will become the starting Center with McDyess becoming more of a “role player” with the possibility of increased production with more rest for McDyess. Whether this is likely we will have to wait and see.

That being said… Pop and RC’s track record in accquiring overseas talent via non-lottery draft picks is pretty much unrivaled by any other front office. (Ginobli, Parker, Scola, maybe Oberto, etc.) So until Splitter comes over and lays an egg, I feel as though we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

Also I agree that Bonner needs to go…

Good Posts though… You make very intelligent arguments and I enjoy reading them.

@ Ballhog

I could probably effectively argue every point you make but I’ll stick to your relentless criticism of the Spurs FO….

I implore you to name a small market team in any of the four professional sports that has been able to be consistentantly relevant year after year…The Colts are probably the only/best example.

You mention Cleavleand, but the fact is San Antonio (like Cleaveland) as a city is not on the top of the list for most free agents… It simply isn’t as attractive as a place to live for a young person as Dallas, New York, Boston, Chicago, LA…. that’s just the facts.

“I still hear all of this praise for this coach and FO. Scares me because it means that we have the type of fan base that doesnt know basketball and is easily duped…”

The spurs fan base are not the only people praising them … (i.e. John Hollinger calling us one of 5 offseason winners, Scott Van Pelt recently saying we are the only team in professional sports to be able to continuley rebuild while remaining a contender…)

In addition other teams continuely hire our low level front office guys as new GMs… so if our front office is so horrible why would this be happening?

“Im just wondering how long we will be forced to endure Pop and company…”

Pop and Company have got us 4 championships in the last 10 years and one of the highest winning percentages out of any team in sports over that period…. what else do you want? We don’t win a championship for a couple years and you’re ready to fire them?….comon. Give them a chance to reload.

You bring down the quality of this board….

Sarge
July 30th, 2010 at 7:24 am

“And the Spurs rebounds per-game is only .22 less than the Suns, but the team differential is +3.25 for the Spurs, and only +.65 for the Suns. This implies to me that the Spurs are a better rebounding team.”

That is true. We are a better rebounding team than the Suns, but not by a meaningfully large amount. For example, the Spurs “total rebound rate” last year was 52.0 (3rd), and the Suns was 50.4 (13th). But in the context of the Amundson argument, it does not alter the fact that Amundson is a very good rebounder.

ZP13
July 30th, 2010 at 10:30 am

“Good Posts though… You make very intelligent arguments and I enjoy reading them.”

Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate that.

You’re point about the Spurs FO and their track-record is valid. In disagreeing with some of their decisions, I’ve never meant to imply that they’re wrong without knowing ALL the facts involved, or in how things will eventually turn out. For example, Splitter “could” be better than most of us could reasonably expect. After all, most of us are far from experts about Tiago’s game, or how well it might translate to the NBA level. Obviously, the Spurs have analyzed Splitter a lot more closely than any of us on this blog have.

That said, I think it’s healthy to question your team’s decisions, and I certainly won’t hesitate in asserting a well-thought out opinion. After all, the Spurs management is not infallible. Sure, the FO certainly doesn’t make many decisions based on their fan-base, but by the same token, if they sense a burgeoning uneasiness in their fans, that may provide some subconscious incentive for them to push the envelop a bit, to be a bit more proactive & aggressive where possible to provide the team with the necessary competitive edge to compete at the highest level. Fans are clearly not entirely powerless. After all, we are the main organic force that drives the team’s/owners’s revenue & profit, and pays for their not too shabby salaries!

@Jim Henderson

Totally agree with you that questioning FO decisions is healthy and without this dialogue the message board wouldn’t be any fun. Also they certainly aren’t infallible.

My comments were primarily directed towards the other poster who I felt was just making comments out of let field about how bad our FO was immediately after losing all credibility by saying we should be begging for Shaq.

we need a big and im a fan of Amundson, but we should stay away from him. Amundson is an energy guy, that plays solid D. I think we have a guy named Blair. Who is more of an energy player, better rebounder and in 3 years he will be a better defender than Amundson is now. I dont want us to bring a redundant talent and take minutes from Blair. Also, you forgot we basically have the same bigs(so same rebounding, blocks etc) but with the addition of Tiago. which means our rebounding and blocks could only go up. yes he hasnt played a minute in nba, but they r things that always stay with a player. rebounding is rebounding, desire 2 play defense will always make one at the minimum an above average defender, and the heart of a champion is always stays with you. you could say all you want about his offense but I guarantee you others will be worried about him on D.

Jim Henderson you want amundosn and kapono 4 dyss.
we all 4get one thing, stats dosnt mean everything.(jim I know ur not a stats guy so I wasn’t attacking you). Dyss stats r not that great, but he played EXCELLENT D on Dirk, he made timely shots, and he always played better in the playoffs. I cant say that about amundson. In other words, Dyss might be our best option on Dirk, Pau and Bosh and if we put Lou on them we r going to get seeped. so no thx on the trade.

Our D

They are concerns about our D. i dont think any team in nba playoff played better half court D than we did. remember how we stopped Dallas(one of the best offensive teams). our D struggled against suns. but im not too worried, now that amare is gone only OKC will run in the playoffs but they dont even run as much. plus our D got faster (hello Tiago). and im counting on Manu and Tp 2 be healthy, and no freak game from Dragic. taking all that into consideration Im not too worried about facing a team like Suns.

Our Wings

so that leaves us with the wings. Our biggest problem. one problem was shooting, we added anderson and neal(2 unproven guys). but again im not too worried, i could bet you RJ and Hills 3s will only improve. and the FO is banking on Manu 2 shoot lights out again(remember he was above 50% behind the curve be4 Dirt put our season 2 an end). Kapono is one hell of a shooter and in playoffs he is even better(Bonner maybe you should learn something from him), we could definitely use him on the offense, but his D is why I dont want him.

Who is our lock down defender?
Manu? he could do it but he will get tired, we need him to pull his magic in the 4th.
Hill? can he guard kobe for 7 games? How about lebron?
RJ? he is solid not great.

AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT SEES THAT AS A HUGE PROBLEM. OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM. THE ONLY PROBLEM WE HAVENT ADDRESSED AT ALL.

there is not much left on the market. I think we should add Hayes. known as a defender (i believe he guarded Lebron in the playoff(i think that experience can help). He is a career 36% 3-pt shooter, BOTH IN PLAYOFFS and Regular Season. His area of expertise, on offense, is the corner 3. Does this remind you of some guy we had in our championship runs? oh the best part about him we dont have to subtract anyone from our team.

we could also look at Deveon George. Although he is older. his D is not as good, but he is a better offensive player, and rebounder. and has 3 rings.

I also think we should bring Bogans back. he is a very good defender, has a year of experience in the system. and just incase someone on the wings gets injured, I wont mind him on our roster

Also for insurance we need to add a 7 footer that plays D. so we could throw another body at bynum, howard etc. as funny as this sounds I want Mbenga. Solid defender, athletic, and 2 rings. He also, doesn’t demand mpg.

ali
July 30th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

“Who is more of an energy player, better rebounder and in 3 years he will be a better defender than Amundson is now.”

Blair will never be the shot-blocker that Amundson is. People need to understand how important shot-blocking is. During our championship years, we AVERAGED 6.3 bpg. One year it was 7.0 bpg! Over the last two years the Spurs averaged 4.3 bpg. That’s TWO full blocks below where we were during our championship years. The Spurs have always won by DEFENSE, and shot-blocking has always comprised a major component of that defense. Splitter is also not a particularly good shot-blocker, especially for a 7 footer. We need a guy like Amundson in the front court rotation to get back close to 6 bpg. again.

“I dont want us to bring a redundant talent and take minutes from Blair.”

Amundson is not redundant talent, in fact he’s a “perfect” compliment to the rest of our front court players, and he would not take minutes from Blair, but from Bonner & McDyess (if we could not trade him for a shooter or a perimeter defender). Also, it is unlikely that Blair will ever be on par with Amundson defensively, even though I expect Blair to improve considerably in the next few years.

“…..with the addition of Tiago. which means our rebounding and blocks could only go up.”

I’ve always referred to or taken into account the addition of Splitter when discussing the benefits of Amundson. Splitter is ear-marked for being our starting center, either now or in the near future. And as previously alluded to, his addition does not adequately address our shot-blocking weaknesses, and Amundson would mainly take minutes from Bonner, which would make our rebounding even stronger (you basically can never be too strong in rebounding). And by the way, Blair has designs on being more that an “energy” guy off the bench. He sees himself as our starting PF after TD retires (or declines significantly, whichever comes first). Amundson on the other hand will never be anything more than a valuable “enegy” guy off the bench. And as I said, he’s the perfect fit/compliment with the main guys that we have (TD, Splitter, Blair).

“…..stats dosnt mean everything….”

Stats don’t mean “everything”, but you certainly can’t dismiss them when attempting to evaluate whether making player acquisitions make sense. The fact is, all else being equal, increased age of a player past the age of 32-33 is a factor to consider. Amundson is NINE years younger than McDyess, 27 versus 36! You simply cannot dismiss that as a factor. You cannot dismiss that Amundson averaged more points per 36 minutes last year than McDyess. You cannot dismiss that Amundson was comparable last season to McDyess in total rebound rate. And you cannot dismiss the fact that Amundson averaged 3.00 bpg./48 min. (12th in the league, just behind Camby), and McDyess averaged .95 bpg./48 mins. (75th in the league, just behind the SF, Martell Webster).

“Dyss stats r not that great, but he played EXCELLENT D on Dirk, he made timely shots, and he always played better in the playoffs. I cant say that about amundson. In other words, Dyss might be our best option on Dirk, Pau and Bosh and if we put Lou on them we r going to get seeped. so no thx on the trade.”

In last years playoffs, Amundson had more rebounds than McDyess per 48 minutes, as well as more steals per 48 minutes, and more blocks per 48 minutes. Lou, Tiago, & Tim would form a strong defensive front against the “bigs” of any of our playoff opponents (obviously the Lakers are still a tough match-up on the front line for any team in the league), and the specific assignments for each of them would depend on the particular match-up. Lou would hold up well in any assignment Pop thought best for him to take on. And the great thing about Lou is that he play’s great “team” defense, and is an outstanding weak side help defender.

“They are concerns about our D. i dont think any team in nba playoff played better half court D than we did”

We are in the top eight or ten, and not much better than that. That’s not good enough for us to challenge for a title.

“Im not too worried about facing a team like Suns.”

The Suns are not really our worry. It’s LA, Houston, Portland, Dallas, & OKC.

“….but again im not too worried, i could bet you RJ and Hills 3s will only improve.”

You have nothing to really base this on other than hope. I’m not big on hope, I’m big on action.

“there is not much left on the market. I think we should add Hayes.”

I’m open to considering that, but we still need an additional pair of young legs to help block shots on the interior, and that guy is Amundson.

“I also think we should bring Bogans back.”

I disagree.

“I want Mbenga. Solid defender, athletic, and 2 rings. He also, doesn’t demand mpg.”

I’m okay with Mbenga, if we can’t afford Amundson or Boone. The problem with Mbenga is that his lateral movement is a bit slow, and so he is not as good of a position defender or rebounder as is Amundson or Boone (although, at least he has good size, and has a solid rate of blocks per 48 minutes). The rings he has is virtually meaningless in terms of his value. He played like half the games at like 5 mpg.

ciao a tutti i tifosi dei San Antonio Spurs, volevo ringraziare coloro che mi hanno risposto riguardo il giocatore Malik Hairston

What’s done has been done. Hairston gone isn’t that big of a deal IMO. Though he did play good perimeter D, his ball handling and passing skills were left to be desired at the nba level.

The Spurs have, as it it stands now, some young, athletic “hopefulls” to play positions that were at best for the team last year mediocre achievements in Bogans, Mason and Hairston. If anything…Temple, Gee and Neal bring at least what the team has lost in the 3 outgoing players mentioned.

This is not a rip on the FO or an endorsement. It’s the facts.

Fact 1. Bonner is going to be Bonner. He IS a defensive liability. And if his shot is not falling, a useless piece of the puzzle at achieving the goal of title contention.
Enter Tiago Splitter who made a great name for himself overseas but still translucent to what he may do at the nba level much less how he will perform for the Spurs. Granted the excitement should be anticipated and he probably will be a good player in the league. He WILL have to perform at an expectation that many hope he can perform to make good for the lack of inside presense this team has lacked over the past 3 years.
Then there is DeJuan Blair. If he can perform at his per rate like last year without piling up as many fouls in the same short amount of time…the team will have a solid frontcourt foundation. This assuming Duncan can still be as productive a year later than his steadily declining numbers have been indicating.

However…if these things come to fruition…Bonner’s role will be hopefully and expectedly less than what he was relied upon in the past. 4mil per year seems like a lot for such a small role and too much for the role he was performing at in the past 2 years. His signing simply didn’t make sense without at least the team having talks with a player like Amundson or Boone. And who knows…perhaps the FO did have conversations with some better defensive bigs that were (are) available and negotiations didn’t go through.

Fact 2. Richard Jefferson, for as much as a lot of people hated for him to be on the team based on his production and pay scale compared to last year, probably was the best available SF the Spurs “realistically” had a chance of signing this off season.
And that leaves the Spurs without a “known” commodity as a b/u at the SF. But…it was known that the b/u’s at SF the team had last year were not dependable or consistant.

Everyone knows the team needs more consistant 3-point shooting. But why does it have to be in the form of a SF? Temple and Gee showed great promise while Neal is a great mid range, quick release shooter. If the shooting percentage goes up from other areas of the court other than SF…who cares? As long as it goes up.

So upon this, what else can the Spurs do?

Several trade mentions and signings have been discusse at nauseum. Many I have been in favor of including Kapono and Amundson or Boone.

But just to lick the chops some more I did a complete trade scenario situation team by team throughout the entire league to see what may be “realistically” available at this moment and/or even up to the start of the season.

The comparisons were done according to what another team “might” see as a benefit to them and not just to what the Spurs would acquire. Trust me…that takes a lot longer to navigate than basing a trade on who I would like the Spurs to have.

At SF two trades worked. The first is lopsided for the Spurs as far as talent coming and leaving but…depending on Portland and their plans for the future with healthy players…
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2fhgzas
Sure Batum is worth more than his salary suggests. But the Blazers are loaded (when healthy) of players that would fill his role. And if it were not for injuries…probably wouldn’t have played as much as he did. Jerrels and Gee give the Blazers both a needed 3rd string PG and young aggressive G/F combo who would excell in that atmosphere. Batum has one year left on his contract and will probably command more than what the Blazeers would be willing to pay after next year while being able to groom and use Jarrels and Gee for the primary role of support players on a team already loaded with high end talent.

The other trade is more likely in a realistic mode…
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23p86n7
Mbah a Moute would be that prototypical SF the Spurs don’t have outside of RJ and cost less to acquire. His 3-point shooting is consistant and his defense is presumably better than Kapono. The Bucks are in need of at least one if not two b/u PG’s. Of course I’m sure the Bucks might like to have Temple over Jarrells. If that were to be the case…it’s a tug as to rather that would be a win for the Spurs. But Mbah a Moute does have upside that could be developed and used effectively in the Spurs system as well as giving them that size needed at SF.

FrostMo
August 1st, 2010 at 5:46 am

“McDyess and Amundson are about the same player; he is not an upgrade.”

Amundson’s NINE years younger, and you’re apparently dismissing this very salient fact:

“Amundson averaged 3.00 bpg./48 min. (12th in the league, just behind Camby), and McDyess averaged .95 bpg./48 mins. (75th in the league, just behind the SF, Martell Webster).”

BLOCKED SHOTS have ALWAYS been an important part to our championship success. We were ranked number one in our first three championship years. The last two years we were ranked 22nd & 27th, respectively. Even during our last championship, we ranked 9th, and stepped it up to number one during the post-season. Last post-season we were ranked 12th out of 16 teams! Amundson is comparable or better than McDyess in all other production categories, STEALS in particular. What is it that you don’t get?

“Anyone on the suns gets inflated rebound numbers because they jack up garbage and take more shots.”

Are you clueless, or just giving a VERY GOOD impression? The Suns were NUMBER ONE in FG% last year, and NUMBER ONE in 3-point %. Is that jacking up garbage? Take the garbage out of your brain, for a moment, please! Also, the Suns were basically in the middle of the pack in terms of FGA’s per game, ranked 13th. They took ONE POINT SIX more FGA’s per game than the Spurs, and made TWO POINT THREE more of them. Thus, certainly on the offensive end, Amundson DID NOT get more rebound opportunities per 48 minutes than McDyess. On the defensive end, because of the Sun’s opponents increased shot attempts and misses than vice versa for the Spurs, Amundson would get more rebound attempts than McDyess per 48 minutes. Taking both offfensive & defensive opportunities into account, Amundson would statistically be afforded about .26 more rpg. than McDyess per 48 minutes, but Amundson is in fact getting .8 more rpg./48 than McDyess. Thus, regardless of taking rebound opportunities into account, Amundson is as good of an overall rebounder as is McDyess, or slightly better.

Quit making up excuses that Amundson is not as good as he “appears”. It’s nonsense.

Also regarding a protypical SF but looking at a stand point of where Portland might want to head after this season in regards to having to pay Batum after next season…

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2f856eo

Portland receives in Gee and Jerrells two role players that they would not have to expend future large salary amounts in acquiring to become role players on a team already stacked with talent and play a similar style of game as the Spurs. This of course depending on how well they think Babbitt is going to play.

This also works in giving up Temple in the deal instead of Gee. Which would sweeten the offer with regards to Portland. But is it something Pop would do to improve the Spurs chance of winning a title now during Duncan’s tenure?

Jim
“I’m all in favor of being open to trades, and I like Moute, but we’d have to give up more than Jerrells to have a shot at getting him.”

Perhaps a little more. But maybe not as much more than getting Kapono.

All of course if giving up McDyess meant having the chance of landing Kapono and the Spurs don’t sign either Amundson or Boone.

But there is a sliver of opportunity that still rests in trade options depending on how the rest of the summer plays out.

I’ve looked at a lot of options. Too many to list because I did a trade analysis between the Spurs and every team. There simply isn’t much that the Spurs (or another team) could garnish without ultimately being the loser in the deal.

Moute was the best deal I could find for the value where both teams would have to give compared to the roster they both have at the time.

Batum was a wish. But even if it meant having to give up Gee and Temple plus a draft pick…I would seriously consider that if I were the Spurs. Portland might not. But at what future expense (or loss of) do they get for Batum if they are already that much over the cap with who they have now? Role players would be an excellent move to fill the gap at a decent secure price. That plus…how is Babbitt going to fit in their plan?

“In last years playoffs, Amundson had more rebounds than McDyess per 48 minutes, as well as more steals per 48 minutes, and more blocks per 48 minutes.”

If you’re going to make that comparison, you should also disclose that Blair had less turnovers and more points, rebounds (offensive, defensive, and total), blocks, steals, and assists per 48 minutes than Amundson in last year’s playoffs. He also shot better from the free throw line. The only statistical category where Amundson beat Blair in last year’s playoffs was FG% (52.8% to 50.0%).

I think Hairston saw Gary Neal get a guaranteed contract, and then told the Spurs either to guarantee his contract as well, or he’s outta here. The Spurs braintrust took the latter option.

J2