Thursday, July 29th, 2010...8:21 am
Malik Hairston heads to Italy
When San Antonio Spurs assistant coach Mike Budenholzer said before the Las Vegas Summer League that Malik Hairston wasn’t playing because Hairston had fans in San Antonio, apparently he meant some Italians who were in town to offer Malik a contract.
In fairly surprising news today, Malik Hairston signed a two year deal with Italian club Montepaschi Siena. From Euroleague.net:
Italian League champion Montepaschi Siena kept completing its roster for the upcoming 2010-11 Turkish Airlines Euroleague Basketball season by inking small forward Malik Hairston to a two-year deal, the club confirmed Thursday. Hairston arrives from NBA powerhouse San Antonio, where he averaged 2.6 points in 38 NBA games last season. Last season, Hairston also played for Austin, averaging 29.1 points on 41.4% three-pointers and 4.7 rebounds in 15 D-League games before returning to the Spurs.
It comes as a bit of surprise to see Hairston head across the pond. He played limited minutes last year in the silver and black before getting injured late in the season and missing the playoffs. This summer, it seemed he was on the verge of breaking into San Antonio’s rotation for next season, and the assumption that he didn’t need to play the Spurs’ summer league team only increased that feeling.
But it looks like there was another reason for Hairston to not be in Vegas.
Looking at San Antonio’s offseason moves, maybe this one isn’t all that surprising. The Spurs front office drafted James Anderson with their first round pick. Then Hairston was not on San Antonio’s summer league team in Las Vegas, where the Spurs executives took a long, hard look at Alonzo Gee. After summer league, the Spurs signed guard Gary Neal to a guaranteed three year deal.
These moves, all in addition to re-signing Richard Jefferson, marginalized Hairston’s spot on the roster just a bit.
Though only 6’6″, Hairston plays more like a small forward than shooting guard. While he could’ve fit in behind Jefferson on the depth chart, it looks like the Spurs want to go into a different direction. Expect San Antonio to sign a small forward with the remaining portion of the midlevel exception, or bring one into training camp at the veteran’s minimum.
Tip of the cap to commenter TDzilla and the folks at Spurstalk for getting out ahead on this news.
79 Comments
July 29th, 2010 at 8:25 am
Nothing to show for the Goran Dragic trade
July 29th, 2010 at 8:28 am
Well, at least the news gave you good reason to run that photo. Per.Fect.
July 29th, 2010 at 8:29 am
@mundanemundin
Disagree. The other second round pick the Spurs got from the Dragic trade was used to draft DeJuan Blair. So there’s that.
July 29th, 2010 at 8:32 am
@AndrewAMcNeil
Touche’
Thanx.
July 29th, 2010 at 8:54 am
Malik Hairston saw the writing on the wall. Not even allowed to dress for ANY playoff games!!
Popovich has got to learn to give players an opportunity to play during the season and not be so regimented. Parker got that chance and benched in the playoffs vs. Nets for Speedy Claxton. Why can’t Popovich do the same with the Hairston’s, Mahinmi’s, that wind up on the Spurs roster? These were like, what, 3yr Spurs? And never played? Is there any doubt that they want to bounce?
I have serious questions if Splitter will even get more than 20 minutes of playing time a game. I believe Bonner will play more than Splitter in the regular season. Will Anderson see the floor at all?
I’d still look into signing Bobby Jones.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bobby-Jones-351/
He’d be a huge upgrade over re-signing Keith Bogans!
July 29th, 2010 at 9:05 am
[...] Spurs fans, the loss of Malik Hairston raises questions on multiple levels.Hairston’s departure from the Spurs gives rise to the [...]
July 29th, 2010 at 9:28 am
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Andrew A. McNeill and San Antonio Spurs, Timothy Varner. Timothy Varner said: RT @aamcneill: 48MoH / Malik Hairston heads to Italy http://dlvr.it/39B99 [...]
July 29th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Andrew, beat me to it. And Sarver sent a truck full of cash to the Spurs as part of that deal. Blair > Dragic. Ironically, this opens up a roster spot for the Spurs to dedicate to a Toro. Around we go, again.
July 29th, 2010 at 9:41 am
Rudy Fernandez is asking for a trade, according to Yahoo! Sports. KD makes a good point in that, at $1.25 mil this season, isn’t he worth it? In my limited knowledge of his game (I use him as my go-to shooter while playing with Portland on NBA 2K10- on the 360, not PS3 of course)I figure that he would be an excellent option to fill the Brent/Roger/Bruce shooter role that we’ve been looking to fill. I realize that pretty much all he’s done in the last two years is jack up 3′s (63% of his shots!), but at the same time that’s pretty much the entire role he’s been given under Nate-dogg.
Is there anyway we make this happen (I thought we still had some MLE/LLE money left over), and more importantly, am I right thinking he would be a good fit?
July 29th, 2010 at 9:48 am
He’s a defensive liability, but wants more minutes. In other words, he’d be great for the Spurs at 18 minutes a game, but I think he wants to play 30. And what would he cost? The Spurs would have to give up something to get him.
July 29th, 2010 at 10:09 am
Can we just send Portland a draft pick? But yeah Tim, I think you’re right about the minutes situation. If he was unhappy with his PT in Potland, I doubt he’d be much happier here.
Oh well, in a perfect world I guess it would work, and he would play lockdown D too.
July 29th, 2010 at 10:10 am
*Portland, stupid typo.
Although it’s pretty much Potland now anyway.
July 29th, 2010 at 10:27 am
@mundanemundin: Hell yeah. Same can be told of the Barbosa draft-and-trade-for-future-pick situation.
Hey Spurs, DON’T TRUST THE SUNS ON DRAFT NIGHT!
I wish Hairston can still go back to the team.
July 29th, 2010 at 11:08 am
@ thecolorofmybloodissilverandblack:
The Spurs only drafted Barbosa and Dragic because they had pre-arranged deals to send them to Phoenix. Nobody knows who the Spurs would have actually picked had they held on to those draft picks.
July 29th, 2010 at 11:47 am
@ lvmainman
Hairston got hurt in the last home game against Minnesota. In that game, he got 15 minutes and scored 14 points on 5 of 8 shooting. Mason was forced to play injured in the playoffs which might not have been the case had Hairston been healthy. Maybe.
July 29th, 2010 at 11:55 am
Hairston shows how weak the D league is. The guy cant dribble, yet he averages almost 30ppg? Really? The guy cant dribble. It was like watching some 7′ tall freshman basketball player learning how to chew gum while playing a varsity game. He can jump, and shoot a set shot. But put him in motion and you got sea sick.
July 29th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Maybe he stars in Europe for a couple years, plays 30 minutes a game for one of the best teams, and then comes back a much more experienced and ready to contribute player…
July 29th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Thursday, July 29th, 2010…8:21 am
Malik Hairston heads to Italy
“Expect San Antonio to sign a small forward with the remaining portion of the midlevel exception, or bring one into training camp at the veteran’s minimum.”
Or … use the remainder to sign another defensive big in either Amundson or Boone and trade for Kapono.
Sorry Jim if I stole your thunder.
July 29th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
@ rob
Possibly. But right now, Jefferson is the only small forward on the depth chart. Unless they’re confident enough in Gee’s abilities this season to be a rotation player.
July 29th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Bobby jones does look like he’s got a good bit of potential…
I wonder why nobody has made him a project yet.
As far as Bogans returning for round 2, I think I would pass. I think the Spurs can do better than Keith, even with the limited amount of players to select from. We’ll just have to wait and see.
July 29th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Losing Hairston doesn’t really help our depth at the defensive end. We need an NBA proven back-up SF that can either shoot the three “real” well, or defends “real” well, or heaven forbid, BOTH! Use the MLE/LLE or make a trade.
We also still need another YOUNG BIG THAT CAN DEFEND & BLOCK SHOTS. Either trade McDyess to do it, or use the MLE/LLE and turn Bonner into just a “situational” role player outside of the main rotation.
Otherwise we have little shot at truly contending for the WC title this year. Don’t forget, most of our competition has gotten better this year as well. We have simply not made enough progress to close the gap.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
I am sad to see Malik go. I thought this was his year to break through.
I have always thought part of the problem is that Pop just doesn’t play the young guys enough. I would rather watch Malik or Blair on the court struggling but learning, then watch Mason turn it over, Bogans miss shots and Bonner miss defensive assignments.
For 2+ mill left on the MLE you would think the Spurs could lure a pretty good backup for RJ. But there is slim pickings out there now.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
lvmainman
July 29th, 2010 at 8:54 am
“I’d still look into signing Bobby Jones.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bobby-Jones-351/
He’d be a huge upgrade over re-signing Keith Bogans!”
Since it now appears that we HAVE to sign a backup SF, then Simmons should be our man. He sports a 40% 3pt shooting average and has been a decent player in the past. Although he is not a great defender, he would only play for 18 min/game tops. However, I would contend that there is little chance we can sign Simmons AND Amundson. Come on FO, do something!!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
@Jim Henderson
I think were probably good when it comes to our stable of bigs this season.
Dejaun Blair will continue to play a bigger role as Pop’s confidence in him grows. In addition, adding a proven international star in Tiago Splitter helps to bolster our front line, I feel like this kid could have a pretty immediate impact.
Tim will obviously continue to get his minutes and I wouldn’t count out Mcdyess’s ability to defend and block shots (exhibit A: The job he did on Dirk in the Playoffs).
Taking all this into account even if the spurs did make a move, I feel like it would be difficult to find a guy with the skills to get minutes at the 4 or 5 on this roster.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
@Hobson13
With Duncan, Blair, Bonner, Splitter and McDyess I don’t think we have the need/space for another big man like Amundson.
I think a shooter/perimeter defender would be the primary target.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Best of luck to him. Now I can expect comments like ‘Pop should be fired, because he just let our best defender walk away’ etc. etc..
The impression I got from Gee was that he was almost exactly like Hairston, meaning that retaining both seemed quite pointless (and it’s unlikely that Hairston developed a reliable jump shot before Summer League). I guess Gee’s one more year of D-League eligibility gave him an advantage over Hairston too. Moreover, Spurs are dangerously close to the luxury tax line (as far as I know anyway) and I doubt they’ll fill that 15-man roster if it means going over the tax line.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
Why is there so much love for Kapono and Amundson? I mean, I have read EVERY post about both players and I fill that they would fit in good. But, let’s be honest. Does anyone actually think San Antonio is going to trade for Kapono let alone sign another big? we are set with our bigs and hopefully Pop only lets Bonner play in the situational role for about 15 minutes a game. We are set and I don’t see us getting either guy.
I’m interested to see what Tim or Andrew think about either.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
@ Jim Henderson - I’m not sure that our WC competition has gotten better. It seems to me that everyone has taken a small hit, at least in terms of continuity, or is hoping that better health (Portland, Houston) or maturity (OKC) guarantees improvement. I think the Spurs are a clear number 2 right now behind LA, especialy after the biggest West signing of the off-season.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
ZP13
July 29th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
“I think were probably good when it comes to our stable of bigs this season.”
Not if we want to actually compete with the Lakers. I guess we’re content with just HOPING that we can compete. Good luck with that!
SA_Ray
July 29th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
“With Duncan, Blair, Bonner, Splitter and McDyess I don’t think we have the need/space for another big man like Amundson.”
I guess you don’t believe it’s important to have YOUNG DEFENDERS on our front line. Wake up!
Ian
July 29th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
“The impression I got from Gee was that he was almost exactly like Hairston, meaning that retaining both seemed quite pointless..”
Gee is nowhere near the defender that Hairston is. Offensively they are similar, with Gee being a bit more aggressive.
TIAAAAGOOO!!!
July 29th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
“Does anyone actually think San Antonio is going to trade for Kapono let alone sign another big?”
First, I’m not “in love” with a Kapono/Amundson acquisition, but I don’t see a better option available for a couple of pick-ups that could help this team. And whether the Spurs “will” do such a deal is not the question. Whether they “should” DO SOMETHING similar Kapono/Amundson to upgrade this team is the point. Because otherwise, we’re pretty much destined to a 1st or 2nd round exit in the West. Many of you might be fine with that. I’m not. I’m not here to be a cheerleader, but to offer a perspective, and some analysis.
“….we are set with our bigs and hopefully Pop only lets Bonner play in the situational role for about 15 minutes a game. We are set and I don’t see us getting either guy…”
Yeah, set to lose, which you’re apparently content with. I’m not, and neither should the FO.
“I’m interested to see what Tim or Andrew think about either.”
Looking for reassurance from the experts?
SpurredOn
July 29th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
“…..or is hoping that better health (Portland, Houston) or maturity (OKC) guarantees improvement…..”
Aren’t the Spurs hoping for the same thing?!
“I think the Spurs are a clear number 2 right now behind LA, especialy after the biggest West signing of the off-season.”
I think you’re clearly mistaken. I would put Houston, Portland, & Dallas ahead of us. Plus, the goal isn’t to be number 2, the goal is to sufficiently gain ground on the Lakers, which we have thus far failed to do. Signing Splitter cannot be viewed as our savior. Neither can hoping for great strides of improvement from several of our young players & prospects. Lets take the rose-colored Spurs glasses off for a minute and look at the situation as objectively as possible. We’re no clear 2nd in the West, and a clear SECOND is not good enough anyway.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
i think malik deserved more of an opportunity to play, especially with losers like mason and bogans getting big minutes at different points throughout the year. he’s going to tear it up over there in italy. also, malik used to hit up my restaurant all the time, he was a nice guy. i spotted him at kfc one time getting down on a double down…man has good taste
July 29th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
[...] 48 Minutes of Hell (blog) [...]
July 29th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
@Jim Henderson
“Whether they “should” DO SOMETHING similar Kapono/Amundson to upgrade this team is the point.”
I agree.
NOW with the departure of Hairston….it’s probably more relevant than ever. Hairston was the b/u SF with the current roster IMO.
That unless the Spurs think …
(as was pointed out by Andrew A. McNeill
July 29th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
“Unless they’re confident enough in Gee’s abilities this season to be a rotation player.”)
Gee did show a lot of promise in summer league AND even made a positive mark when playing for the Wizards at the nba level. His defense though is left to be desired and in the summer league, he was easily beaten by lesser talent when it came to defensive ability. Something Hairston was fairly good at.
But it would still be beneficial to have a KNOWN nba quality in a player such as Kapono to come in and spread the floor with consistant 3-point shooting.
Something the Spurs rely heavily upon in their offense yet haven’t had in their arsenal on a consistant basis.
Of course Gee showed to be a “get to the rim” type of player the Spurs were lacking in as well. Something Manu USED to be able to do on a regular basis but in recent years has been less effective in doing.
All in all, I think the Spurs weren’t too upset at the departure of Hairston for they probably feel they have at least the talent to replace a player like Hairston.
But replacing what you already had compared to upgrading to what you need are two different things.
Players like Amundson and Kapono wouldn’t be players that would make me think the Spurs are hands down favorites to win the title. But they would be an upgrade in areas they lacked just a year ago.
July 29th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
rob
July 29th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
“Players like Amundson and Kapono wouldn’t be players that would make me think the Spurs are hands down favorites to win the title. But they would be an upgrade in areas they lacked just a year ago.”
Yeah, that’s the main point. It gives us more of a shot. That’s all you can ask for.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
what are the chances that the bonner (??!!) would see any playing time at the 3?
July 29th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
@microbass
Extremely unlikely.
His lateral defensive maneuvering would be pitiful and he doesn’t have the speed in any direction to stay in front of his man. Also, he’s not a very strong passer and he’d be a clog in the pipe when trying to feed the ball down low. I think the only thing he has going for him is the spot up three.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Jarvis Hayes anyone?
If he is good enough to be on Boston’s and Laker’s radar, he is good enough to be on our radar. I mean the guy is only known for his tough defense and corner 3s. he is experienced, and can even guard PF. a cheap signing, for a veteran who is below 30.
Also, why am I the only one who considers Anderson as a SF. after he is 6’6, so he has the height of a SF.
This is our current roster:
PG:Parker, Temple
SG:Hill, Manu, Neal
SF: Anderson, RJ
PF: TD, Blair
C: Dyss, Splitter, Bonner
thats 12, I think we need 13 for the playoff I think hayes would be prefect, could play either forwad, spread the floor and defense.
Also, for insurance I wont mind bringing back Bogans. he knows the system and he plays solid D, look at the last time we played kobe and lebron. moreover, he was the only guy 2 make a 3 in game one against PHX, despite limited minutes.
but I think our FO needs 2 bring Bowen back. thats the solution.
http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z247/Vampyre2050/?action=view¤t=BRUCEBOWENDEFENSE.jpg
July 29th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Kappono’s game is so similar to what we expect from Bonner that I just don’t see the point to having both and its already clear which one the FO has chosen. The hope is that Bonner guards the other team’s power forward for stretches. Remember when Bonner tried to guard Dirk? Hilarious.
Admounson would help a lot during the regular season-Tim, McDyess, Blair, Tiago could use one more person-BOnner aint gonna cut it.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
If the Spurs bring Bowen back as anything but a coach, they might as well just move to the Alamodome and resign Robert Horry while they are at it. It aint 2003 anymore.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Amundson is not good. Do you really want Splitter and Blair losing minutes so we can put an undersized one-dimensional big on the court? One who doesn’t rebound, pass, or score as well as Blair, and plays only marginally better defense? Adding a block per game on average over the course of a season is not an upgrade by itself.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Based on what we’ve seen this summer from the FO it seems if they are fairly confident in the likes of Anderson/Temple and even Ginobili playing minutes at the 3 behind Jefferson. I’m actually pretty confident those combination of players are more than capable of playing that role. However given the spurs recent injury woes I think it would be wise to bring in another (big) sf as insurance. I think there are a number of options the FO could consider, including:
1) Trade for Donte Greene - he has good size for the 3 spot is a decent defender and can guard 3/4s and is a reasonable outside shooter. He has shown a lot of promise so the spurs may have to also send a couple of future 2nd round picks to secure his services.
2) Sign Jawad Williams using part of the mid-level exception. The cavs may want too match any offer but I think its still a worth while option given its quite late in the free agency period.
3) Sign Bobby Simmons or Sasha Pavlovic using part of the mid-level exception. Both players have similar skill sets and bring some more experience to the bench.
4) Trade for Dajuan Summers using the spurs trade exception (from theo ratlif trade to CHA). I think this is a good low risk high reward trade. He has decent size and nba ready body. He looked reasonably good during the summer league without being the teams focal point and is a decent catch and shoot player. Also he has a another year of d-league elgibility so theoretically he could spend a lot of time at the toros improving his game if he is not needed in the pros.
5) Sign Adam Morrison/Joe Alexander for the minimum. Why not take a flyer on unfullfilled potential?
July 29th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Jim Henderson
July 29th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
“I guess you don’t believe it’s important to have YOUNG DEFENDERS on our front line. Wake up!”
Last I checked Blair and Splitter were pretty YOUNG DEFENDERS. And I don’t see how adding another undersized center (Amundson) who plays marginal defense makes the Spurs better. At this point I would rather give the minutes to McDyess.
I would love the see the FO make another move to improve the front line but it’s not going to be via FA.
The Spurs real need is another perimeter defender who can shoot the three. Wake Up!
July 29th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
mikrobass3
July 29th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
what are the chances that the bonner (??!!) would see any playing time at the 3?
ZERO!
ali
July 29th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Jarvis Hayes anyone?
He is a possibility. So is Bobby Simmons or Jawad Williams.
For bigs, the best available is Amundson, followed by Boone. After that, J. Singleton.
“Also, why am I the only one who considers Anderson as a SF. after he is 6’6, so he has the height of a SF.”
It’s just not where his potential is best suited.
ChillFAN
July 29th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
“Admounson would help a lot during the regular season–Tim, McDyess, Blair, Tiago could use one more person–BOnner aint gonna cut it.”
I agree (though Amundson could help in the playoffs as well), but if you’d prefer to severely limit Bonner’s minutes, we’re already hurting in 3-point shooting, so why not trade for Kapono’s shooting, and as a back-up at SF?
B Burke
July 29th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
“Amundson is not good.”
And what are you basing this on, your intuition?
“Do you really want Splitter and Blair losing minutes so we can put an undersized one-dimensional big on the court?”
For one thing, he’s not one-dimensional. He’s an excellent shot-blocker, defender, and rebounder. He provides AMAZING energy & hustle, and does one very important thing that Blair & Splitter don’t do that well: block shots. And secondly, he plays bigger than his 6’9″, 240 lbs. would suggest, because he’s “tough”, and a great leaper.
“Adding a block per game on average over the course of a season is not an upgrade by itself.”
Yes it is (the Spurs are almost two bpg. less than they averaged during their 4 title years), and that’s the only thing that Amundson would provide of value, as I’ve already outlined. And by the way, Amundson would be taking minutes from Bonner & McDyess, not Splitter & Blair.
July 29th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Futureman
July 29th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
“Based on what we’ve seen this summer from the FO it seems if they are fairly confident in the likes of Anderson/Temple and even Ginobili playing minutes at the 3 behind Jefferson.”
Well, I hope that’s not the case, because none of them are capable of effective defense at the SF spot, particularly not against the better SF’s in the league.
“1) Trade for Donte Greene – he has good size for the 3 spot is a decent defender and can guard 3/4s and is a reasonable outside shooter. He has shown a lot of promise so the spurs may have to also send a couple of future 2nd round picks to secure his services.”
I love that idea, if we could possibly get him. Probably not likely, but worth making an overture. What do the Kings need that we could stand to give up that makes sense for BOTH teams?
“2) Sign Jawad Williams using part of the mid-level exception. The cavs may want too match any offer but I think its still a worth while option given its quite late in the free agency period.
3) Sign Bobby Simmons or Sasha Pavlovic using part of the mid-level exception. Both players have similar skill sets and bring some more experience to the bench.”
I’m open to those sensible suggestions as well.
Not too big on suggestions 4 & 5.
SA_Ray
July 29th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
“Last I checked Blair and Splitter were pretty YOUNG DEFENDERS.”
That’s one unproven NBA defender, and one super-undersized PF where defense is thus far his weakest link by far. That’s not nearly enough to contend.
“And I don’t see how adding another undersized center (Amundson) who plays marginal defense makes the Spurs better.”
Amundson is not a “marginal” defender. He’s a very good defender, and an excellent shot-blocker, something this team sorely lacks.
“At this point I would rather give the minutes to McDyess.”
Okay, you’d rather give more minutes to a declining 36 year old that is no longer an adequate shot-blocker. Sounds like a plan!
“I would love the see the FO make another move to improve the front line but it’s not going to be via FA.”
Okaaaaaay…… care to enlighten, or elaborate?
“The Spurs real need is another perimeter defender who can shoot the three.”
Got anybody in mind? Maybe we could get Shane Battier!
July 29th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
if we get shane, hello ring number 5
July 29th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
@Jim Henderson
How is this Jason Kapono trade possible? The Spurs would have to give up at a minimum Mcdyess and another player (e.g. Gee) to make the salaries match (Kapono is slated to make $6.6mil this season). I’m not sure if its a great idea to trade our 2nd best front court defender (splitter has yet to prove himself at nba level) for a guy whose 3pt shooting % is seemingly on the decline (08-48%, 09-43%, 10-37%) and is a notoriously bad defender. I applaued you for your passion and attempted suggestions in trying to improve this ball club but don’t you think we need to be more realistic about whats available through trade and free agency given the spurs cap situation?
Also I don’t completely agree with the premise that the spurs need to find another playoff tested veteran (don’t we have a few of those already?). I think players like shannon brown, ariza, dudley etc have shown that given the right situation and a desire to succeed youngish exuberant players can be useful to have on a playoff bound team. Stephen Jackson is the perfect example of player who wasn’t playoff tested yet had something to prove and was a major contributor to SAS championship in 2003. Maybe Temple and Neal can be those players in 2010? Who knows but I’m excited to find out.
July 29th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Sorry Coach, I didn’t realize you’d already worked out the sub chart. Amundson is an energy guy coming off the bench on a team loaded with mediocre rebounders. That does not make him a good rebounder.
When you pick up blocks by putting in someone like Amundson, you are sacrificing production in all those areas where he is an average or below average player. Thus, it does not improve the team across the board. It is extremely difficult to pick up reliable 4s and 5s in free agency, and so it’s even more tempting to believe that you’ve scouted out some impressive center flying under the radar and available for peanuts. But you’ve got to look at the dude’s production - he’s been in the league for four years, and he doesn’t have a lot to show for it.
As for Bonner, at this point it’s pretty clear that the Spurs value what he brings to the team in spite of his defensive shortcomings vis-a-vis a more traditional PF/C. I would take a real, established center over Bonner if the opportunity presented itself, but I wouldn’t take some fool like Amundson. With the addition of Splitter, and assuming Blair’s gotten a little smarter and improve his conditioning, maybe those two can eat up some minutes and let Pop occasionally slot Bonner as a giant 3. Who knows?
But, like most folks are saying, if there’s a position where we’re genuinely thin and uncertain, I’d say the wings look a little shakier than the bigs. Claiming that Amundson will improve the Spurs is a huuuge reach.
July 29th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Futureman
July 29th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
“How is this Jason Kapono trade possible? The Spurs would have to give up at a minimum Mcdyess and another player (e.g. Gee) to make the salaries match (Kapono is slated to make $6.6mil this season). I’m not sure if its a great idea to trade our 2nd best front court defender (splitter has yet to prove himself at nba level) for a guy whose 3pt shooting % is seemingly on the decline (08-48%, 09-43%, 10-37%) and is a notoriously bad defender.”
You must have missed the “volumes” I’ve written on this issue. And I don’t blame you! The players you mentioned in the proposed trade for Kapono are examples of what I’ve suggested previously. However, I have also made it clear in several posts on the matter, that I would not trade for Kapono without getting someone like Amundson to take McDyess’ place in the rotation. Without adding Amundson’s all-around game to the team, acquiring Kapono would present too much of a defensive liability, even though Kapono’s minutes would be projected to only fill about 6% of the teams total minutes.
“….but don’t you think we need to be more realistic about whats available through trade and free agency given the spurs cap situation?”
I think getting Kapono is realistic, via trade. I’ve given my reasoning in several other posts on the subject in recent days. Amundson is also “realistic”, as an unrestricted FA that remains available. And again, I’ve given my reasons for this assessment in recent posts. Obviously, the chances are that there is a team out there that could pay Amundson perhaps a million per year more than we could (e.g., Charlotte?), but the we simply don’t know that for sure, and the discrepancy is small enough that hope for his acquisition should not be discarded too easily as “unrealistic”. We do have at least 2mil per year available in cap exceptions, and we might have money available with the MLE. I don’t really know because of all the secrecy on the Neal contract details.
July 29th, 2010 at 10:47 pm
B Burke
July 29th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
“Amundson is an energy guy coming off the bench on a team loaded with mediocre rebounders. That does not make him a good rebounder.”
Amundson is ranked 15th in total rebound rate out of ALL the PF’s in entire league that averaged at least 12 mpg. (just ahead of McDyess). That makes him a very good rebounder. As a team, Phoenix was 6th in the league in total rebounds per game; the Spurs were 9th.
“When you pick up blocks by putting in someone like Amundson, you are sacrificing production in all those areas where he is an average or below average player.”
He’s a ROLE PLAYER! Probably 15 mpg. He’s above average in defense, rebounding, blocked shots, steals, and hustle! He’s not a polished offensive player, but he still puts in 11.4 points per 36 minutes. McDyess scored at a rate of 9.9 points per 36 minutes last year. What is it that you want?!
“But you’ve got to look at the dude’s production – he’s been in the league for four years, and he doesn’t have a lot to show for it.”
No, YOU need to look at his production in comparison to other role players that could improve our overall front line production, for a reasonable price (including the all-important interior defense & shot-blocking). He is the absolute best. And NOBODY knows what his actual price will go for, but he’s certainly in the realm of reason.
“I would take a real, established center over Bonner if the opportunity presented itself, but I wouldn’t take some fool like Amundson.”
Then perhaps the “fool” is you.
“…..and let Pop occasionally slot Bonner as a giant 3.”
I can tell you, Bonner will NEVER play one minute at the SF spot.
“Claiming that Amundson will improve the Spurs is a huuuge reach.”
No it isn’t. I’d rather have him than any other wing still available in free agency. On the other hand, it’s obvious that you need to “reach” for some data next time to back up your series of unfounded assertions.
July 29th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
ali
July 29th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
“if we get shane, hello ring number 5″
I had assumed that my mention of acquiring Battier would be received as sarcasm, as it was clearly intended. Perhaps I was wrong. Sorry for the confusion.
July 30th, 2010 at 1:35 am
I’ll second the Jarvis Hayes idea. Where is he, anyway?
Amundson is exactly what you want in a role player. He hustles, defends and is an excellent offensive rebounder. He is the prototypical “garbage” player (meant as a compliment). I would trade him for Bonner in a new york minute.
July 30th, 2010 at 5:23 am
Malik did the right thing…More players will begin to follow his lead.
Losing him was huge and Spurs will soon know it.
THinking that Spurs are OK with the front line currently on roster is ridiculous.
Sick of this FO and this coach and this mentality.
As it stands,,,,Mavs, Rockets, Thunder, to name a few…Better.
Sad…Time for fans to wake up and make some noise….
Anyway,
All the luck in the world to Malik…Great move on his part. Three years of BS is more than enough.
July 30th, 2010 at 5:23 am
mundanemundin
July 29th, 2010 at 8:25 am Nothing to show for the Goran Dragic trade
What do you mean???? We got DeJuan Blair with the 2nd round pick Phoenix gave us! We had a 2 for one deal and while Dragic is better than Hairston, I think most everyone would rather have Blair over Gragic. We have more than enough point guards. OK, so Dragic pulled ONE tremendous game out of his ass but after that, what did he do??? DeJuan had TWO 20/20 games, the last rookie to do that….TIM DUNCAN! Blair had several double games and is looking really poised to make even more noise in 2010-11. Please check your facts before posting something like that. GO SPURS! WIN ONE FOR THE THUMB!
July 30th, 2010 at 6:05 am
now that the suns have obtained hedo and childress, is there any chance that grant hill might be available? and if there is, couldnt we try to sign and trade roger mason to them for about 3 mil? then they would have richardson, mason, hedo, and childress on the wings… just saying
July 30th, 2010 at 6:18 am
(i just read a few of the comments) admunson would be great for the spurs! i love his hustle. if we can sign him, i guarantee you that he will see more playoff time than bonner. Bonner is our darko. The playoff game he get real minutes at, we are anouncing that the series is over. Bonner had his best playoff series against the suns. oh yeah we got swept because we couldnt rebound or beat them inside.
July 30th, 2010 at 6:42 am
This team lost in the playoffs because it could not score consistently, could not rebound consistently, and could not defend consistently.
Has the team addressed these deficiencies? NO!
Splitter, as talented as he is believed to be, has never bounced a ball on an NBA court. Jury is still out…
Anderson is a rookie and therefor, subject to dealing with this coach, who feels that youth cannot contribute.
They go out and grossly over pay for Jefferson, re-sign Bonner, and let Hairston skip town. Didnt go after Shaq or Matt Barnes.
A front court of PF’s with no true center will not get it done in today’s NBA and we all know it.
All of this, I still hear all of this praise for this coach and FO. Scares me because it means that we have the type of fan base that doesnt know basketball and is easily duped…
This roster makes no sense and we are not ready. Mcdyess and Blair are not NBA centers. Bonner is not an NBA player, and who knows how Splitter reacts while playing against the likes of Kevin Garnett, David West, Dirk, etc…
Season hasnt even started and already, we are sucking…
As for Hairston, I applaud his decision. Sitting on the bench behind Mason and Bogans had to be the hardest thing he had ever endured. Leaving this coach and FO probably saved his career.
This Fo and coach should be on thier knees begging Shaq to come to San Antonio,
Why?
As it stands, No team will shake in their boots at the prospect of playing the Spurs. Lining up against Bonner and Splitter is not exactly intimidating.
But, maybe miracles are possible and Bonner makes the all star team and leads us to the promise land…
Yeah….Right!
Im just wondering how long we will be forced to endure Pop and company…
The only team that good NBA players want to avoid more is Cleveland…
Sad!
July 30th, 2010 at 7:24 am
Maybe I’m just being silly, but I think we have to be careful using “total rebounds” as a good measure of a team’s ability to grab boards. A team that plays at a much faster pace like the Suns are going to see more shots, and thusly more misses to rebound. And the Spurs rebounds per-game is only .22 less than the Suns, but the team differential is +3.25 for the Spurs, and only +.65 for the Suns. This implies to me that the Spurs are a better rebounding team.
Not saying that Amundson is a good or bad acquisition, just an interesting thought when comparing the Spurs and Suns rebounding capability.
July 30th, 2010 at 10:30 am
@ Jim Henderson
You make a lot of valid points about the need for the Spurs to add quality role players for rebounding and shotblocking purposes. The FO is clearly banking on the fact that Splitter will become the starting Center with McDyess becoming more of a “role player” with the possibility of increased production with more rest for McDyess. Whether this is likely we will have to wait and see.
That being said… Pop and RC’s track record in accquiring overseas talent via non-lottery draft picks is pretty much unrivaled by any other front office. (Ginobli, Parker, Scola, maybe Oberto, etc.) So until Splitter comes over and lays an egg, I feel as though we should give them the benefit of the doubt.
Also I agree that Bonner needs to go…
Good Posts though… You make very intelligent arguments and I enjoy reading them.
@ Ballhog
I could probably effectively argue every point you make but I’ll stick to your relentless criticism of the Spurs FO….
I implore you to name a small market team in any of the four professional sports that has been able to be consistentantly relevant year after year…The Colts are probably the only/best example.
You mention Cleavleand, but the fact is San Antonio (like Cleaveland) as a city is not on the top of the list for most free agents… It simply isn’t as attractive as a place to live for a young person as Dallas, New York, Boston, Chicago, LA…. that’s just the facts.
“I still hear all of this praise for this coach and FO. Scares me because it means that we have the type of fan base that doesnt know basketball and is easily duped…”
The spurs fan base are not the only people praising them … (i.e. John Hollinger calling us one of 5 offseason winners, Scott Van Pelt recently saying we are the only team in professional sports to be able to continuley rebuild while remaining a contender…)
In addition other teams continuely hire our low level front office guys as new GMs… so if our front office is so horrible why would this be happening?
“Im just wondering how long we will be forced to endure Pop and company…”
Pop and Company have got us 4 championships in the last 10 years and one of the highest winning percentages out of any team in sports over that period…. what else do you want? We don’t win a championship for a couple years and you’re ready to fire them?….comon. Give them a chance to reload.
You bring down the quality of this board….
July 30th, 2010 at 11:38 am
BALLHOG
July 30th, 2010 at 6:42 am
“This Fo and coach should be on thier knees begging Shaq to come to San Antonio.”
Shaq is a washed up 350lb diva who’s only accomplishment in the past 3 years is to act as frontrunner-in-chief to every team who MIGHT be in championship contention. Shaq wants a two year deal for more money than any 38 yr old is worth AND he wants to turn the last year of his deal into “Shaq’s farewell tour” complete with 3 ring circus. If this 7 foot clown wants a circus then send him to Barnum and Bailey’s, not to a basketball court where people are trying to compete at the highest level.
If we want to get some inside help, let’s get a cheaper, younger, more athletic player in Louis Amundson. Sure he’s not 7 feet tall, but he can play gritty defense, grab a few rebounds, and be a general pest on the defensive end. We have enough PGs and SGs to adequately stock our entire team even if a reserve goes down with an injury (God forbid). I think we especially need more depth at the SF position. I think we can get by at the big positions with young guys like Splitter and Blair taking more and more time from McDyess and Bonner. However, if we do need another big, Amundson should be our target, but only after we have solidified our backup SF.
I have suggested a guy like Bobby Simmons as the backup SF since he is a decent player and a 40% 3pt shooter. I still stick with that suggestion.
BALLHOG
July 30th, 2010 at 6:42 am
“As for Hairston, I applaud his decision. Sitting on the bench behind Mason and Bogans had to be the hardest thing he had ever endured. Leaving this coach and FO probably saved his career.”
We put too much faith in unknown quantities like Hairston. Sure he played a few games and was quasi-effective, but he never proved he could do that for the whole season. Sure Mason and Bogans sucked, but I understand why Pop played them instead of Hairston. Pop thought Mason was better offensively and Bogans was superior defensively. Pop hoped Mason would rediscover his shooting touch and return to the player he was two years ago. Mason never got his shooting grove back and, in fact, got worse as the year went on. He hoped Bogans, as offensively challenged as he was, could help be a linchpin of our perimeter defense. However, Bogans just never panned out and his shooting seemed to get worse over the course of the year (don’t know how that was possible for Bogans). At the time when both of these players were sucking it up, Hairston got injured.
I had an argument a number of months ago with a person on this blog (I still remember who you are) who attempted to argue that Hairston could be as good as Andre Igoudala!! Hairston is and always was a D-league talent and can never live up to many of our blogger’s expectations. Losing him, in the end, won’t make much difference.
July 30th, 2010 at 11:44 am
Sarge
July 30th, 2010 at 7:24 am
“And the Spurs rebounds per-game is only .22 less than the Suns, but the team differential is +3.25 for the Spurs, and only +.65 for the Suns. This implies to me that the Spurs are a better rebounding team.”
That is true. We are a better rebounding team than the Suns, but not by a meaningfully large amount. For example, the Spurs “total rebound rate” last year was 52.0 (3rd), and the Suns was 50.4 (13th). But in the context of the Amundson argument, it does not alter the fact that Amundson is a very good rebounder.
ZP13
July 30th, 2010 at 10:30 am
“Good Posts though… You make very intelligent arguments and I enjoy reading them.”
Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate that.
You’re point about the Spurs FO and their track-record is valid. In disagreeing with some of their decisions, I’ve never meant to imply that they’re wrong without knowing ALL the facts involved, or in how things will eventually turn out. For example, Splitter “could” be better than most of us could reasonably expect. After all, most of us are far from experts about Tiago’s game, or how well it might translate to the NBA level. Obviously, the Spurs have analyzed Splitter a lot more closely than any of us on this blog have.
That said, I think it’s healthy to question your team’s decisions, and I certainly won’t hesitate in asserting a well-thought out opinion. After all, the Spurs management is not infallible. Sure, the FO certainly doesn’t make many decisions based on their fan-base, but by the same token, if they sense a burgeoning uneasiness in their fans, that may provide some subconscious incentive for them to push the envelop a bit, to be a bit more proactive & aggressive where possible to provide the team with the necessary competitive edge to compete at the highest level. Fans are clearly not entirely powerless. After all, we are the main organic force that drives the team’s/owners’s revenue & profit, and pays for their not too shabby salaries!
July 30th, 2010 at 11:55 am
sorry i don’t speak very well english; i want to know which type of player is Malik Hairston
July 30th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
@Jim Henderson
Totally agree with you that questioning FO decisions is healthy and without this dialogue the message board wouldn’t be any fun. Also they certainly aren’t infallible.
My comments were primarily directed towards the other poster who I felt was just making comments out of let field about how bad our FO was immediately after losing all credibility by saying we should be begging for Shaq.
July 30th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
ZP 13, thanks for proving my point.
Board dwellers can talk badly about Shaq all they want. Doesnt change the truth. Even at 38 or 40 for that matter, he clogs the middle, rebounbs the ball, scores, and intimidates…
Since you seem to be well versed (?)
Who on the Spurs roster brings these intangiables? Splitter? Mcdyess?
Again, we have no center…Its not as if we have a center and just need a back up…We have no center., Unless Duncan is going to finally accept his much needed switch to the 5 spot, we are fried.
We have Duncan, Parker, Gman, and Hill…The rest are supporting cast, even the overpaid RJ. But, can this cast actually support?
The NBA is going more and more in the direction of athleticism and size, while this FO seems to go in the opposite direction.
Yes, they got lucky with a few overseas talents. They had really effective supporting cast members as well…
However, thier trachk record as of late sucks. Oberto was a Euro player, Bonner is a Euro player, and we need not even comment on Bogans or Mason.
As for Splitter, lets not put too much unrealistic hope into this guy. He has a lot of work ahead. Even if he plays well, the officals wont cut him any slack for the next two years at a minimum.
What happens if Duncan and/or Mcdyess get injured or into foul trouble?
Are we then playing Blair at 5 and Bonner at 4? Or is it 4 guards in the game with Bonner? Do we add Splitter at that point against the games marquee bigs and PF’s?
How about our back court? When our main guys are out, what then?
A rookie 2 guard? Gee the D leaguer?
Hell no, not if we expect to win.
Spurs had opportunites to sign players and again, failed to do so.
Eddie House, Matt Barnes, Gooden, Admunson, Brewer, Jones, Shaq, and on, and on, and on….
Instead…In their infinate wisdom…
They decide to sign RJ for 40 mil and top that off with 16 mil to scrub ass Bonner….and yet, you continue to pat them on the back…
Again, We all enjoyed the 4 trophies…We screamed praise at Pop and company because they had earned that praise.
Dont you think it is earning time in San Antonio, once again?
Or, does this coach and FO stand pat and eat off of thier past triumphs?
Do tell….
July 30th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
we need a big and im a fan of Amundson, but we should stay away from him. Amundson is an energy guy, that plays solid D. I think we have a guy named Blair. Who is more of an energy player, better rebounder and in 3 years he will be a better defender than Amundson is now. I dont want us to bring a redundant talent and take minutes from Blair. Also, you forgot we basically have the same bigs(so same rebounding, blocks etc) but with the addition of Tiago. which means our rebounding and blocks could only go up. yes he hasnt played a minute in nba, but they r things that always stay with a player. rebounding is rebounding, desire 2 play defense will always make one at the minimum an above average defender, and the heart of a champion is always stays with you. you could say all you want about his offense but I guarantee you others will be worried about him on D.
Jim Henderson you want amundosn and kapono 4 dyss.
we all 4get one thing, stats dosnt mean everything.(jim I know ur not a stats guy so I wasn’t attacking you). Dyss stats r not that great, but he played EXCELLENT D on Dirk, he made timely shots, and he always played better in the playoffs. I cant say that about amundson. In other words, Dyss might be our best option on Dirk, Pau and Bosh and if we put Lou on them we r going to get seeped. so no thx on the trade.
Our D
They are concerns about our D. i dont think any team in nba playoff played better half court D than we did. remember how we stopped Dallas(one of the best offensive teams). our D struggled against suns. but im not too worried, now that amare is gone only OKC will run in the playoffs but they dont even run as much. plus our D got faster (hello Tiago). and im counting on Manu and Tp 2 be healthy, and no freak game from Dragic. taking all that into consideration Im not too worried about facing a team like Suns.
Our Wings
so that leaves us with the wings. Our biggest problem. one problem was shooting, we added anderson and neal(2 unproven guys). but again im not too worried, i could bet you RJ and Hills 3s will only improve. and the FO is banking on Manu 2 shoot lights out again(remember he was above 50% behind the curve be4 Dirt put our season 2 an end). Kapono is one hell of a shooter and in playoffs he is even better(Bonner maybe you should learn something from him), we could definitely use him on the offense, but his D is why I dont want him.
Who is our lock down defender?
Manu? he could do it but he will get tired, we need him to pull his magic in the 4th.
Hill? can he guard kobe for 7 games? How about lebron?
RJ? he is solid not great.
AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT SEES THAT AS A HUGE PROBLEM. OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM. THE ONLY PROBLEM WE HAVENT ADDRESSED AT ALL.
there is not much left on the market. I think we should add Hayes. known as a defender (i believe he guarded Lebron in the playoff(i think that experience can help). He is a career 36% 3-pt shooter, BOTH IN PLAYOFFS and Regular Season. His area of expertise, on offense, is the corner 3. Does this remind you of some guy we had in our championship runs? oh the best part about him we dont have to subtract anyone from our team.
we could also look at Deveon George. Although he is older. his D is not as good, but he is a better offensive player, and rebounder. and has 3 rings.
I also think we should bring Bogans back. he is a very good defender, has a year of experience in the system. and just incase someone on the wings gets injured, I wont mind him on our roster
Also for insurance we need to add a 7 footer that plays D. so we could throw another body at bynum, howard etc. as funny as this sounds I want Mbenga. Solid defender, athletic, and 2 rings. He also, doesn’t demand mpg.
July 30th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
filmic
Malik plays on the wing. He is a SF, that could be used as a SG. he is a good defender, very athletic, and bring a lot of energy. his offense is okay for nba, but great in lower leagues.. And the best part about him is his anticipation.
July 30th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
ali
July 30th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
“Who is more of an energy player, better rebounder and in 3 years he will be a better defender than Amundson is now.”
Blair will never be the shot-blocker that Amundson is. People need to understand how important shot-blocking is. During our championship years, we AVERAGED 6.3 bpg. One year it was 7.0 bpg! Over the last two years the Spurs averaged 4.3 bpg. That’s TWO full blocks below where we were during our championship years. The Spurs have always won by DEFENSE, and shot-blocking has always comprised a major component of that defense. Splitter is also not a particularly good shot-blocker, especially for a 7 footer. We need a guy like Amundson in the front court rotation to get back close to 6 bpg. again.
“I dont want us to bring a redundant talent and take minutes from Blair.”
Amundson is not redundant talent, in fact he’s a “perfect” compliment to the rest of our front court players, and he would not take minutes from Blair, but from Bonner & McDyess (if we could not trade him for a shooter or a perimeter defender). Also, it is unlikely that Blair will ever be on par with Amundson defensively, even though I expect Blair to improve considerably in the next few years.
“…..with the addition of Tiago. which means our rebounding and blocks could only go up.”
I’ve always referred to or taken into account the addition of Splitter when discussing the benefits of Amundson. Splitter is ear-marked for being our starting center, either now or in the near future. And as previously alluded to, his addition does not adequately address our shot-blocking weaknesses, and Amundson would mainly take minutes from Bonner, which would make our rebounding even stronger (you basically can never be too strong in rebounding). And by the way, Blair has designs on being more that an “energy” guy off the bench. He sees himself as our starting PF after TD retires (or declines significantly, whichever comes first). Amundson on the other hand will never be anything more than a valuable “enegy” guy off the bench. And as I said, he’s the perfect fit/compliment with the main guys that we have (TD, Splitter, Blair).
“…..stats dosnt mean everything….”
Stats don’t mean “everything”, but you certainly can’t dismiss them when attempting to evaluate whether making player acquisitions make sense. The fact is, all else being equal, increased age of a player past the age of 32-33 is a factor to consider. Amundson is NINE years younger than McDyess, 27 versus 36! You simply cannot dismiss that as a factor. You cannot dismiss that Amundson averaged more points per 36 minutes last year than McDyess. You cannot dismiss that Amundson was comparable last season to McDyess in total rebound rate. And you cannot dismiss the fact that Amundson averaged 3.00 bpg./48 min. (12th in the league, just behind Camby), and McDyess averaged .95 bpg./48 mins. (75th in the league, just behind the SF, Martell Webster).
“Dyss stats r not that great, but he played EXCELLENT D on Dirk, he made timely shots, and he always played better in the playoffs. I cant say that about amundson. In other words, Dyss might be our best option on Dirk, Pau and Bosh and if we put Lou on them we r going to get seeped. so no thx on the trade.”
In last years playoffs, Amundson had more rebounds than McDyess per 48 minutes, as well as more steals per 48 minutes, and more blocks per 48 minutes. Lou, Tiago, & Tim would form a strong defensive front against the “bigs” of any of our playoff opponents (obviously the Lakers are still a tough match-up on the front line for any team in the league), and the specific assignments for each of them would depend on the particular match-up. Lou would hold up well in any assignment Pop thought best for him to take on. And the great thing about Lou is that he play’s great “team” defense, and is an outstanding weak side help defender.
“They are concerns about our D. i dont think any team in nba playoff played better half court D than we did”
We are in the top eight or ten, and not much better than that. That’s not good enough for us to challenge for a title.
“Im not too worried about facing a team like Suns.”
The Suns are not really our worry. It’s LA, Houston, Portland, Dallas, & OKC.
“….but again im not too worried, i could bet you RJ and Hills 3s will only improve.”
You have nothing to really base this on other than hope. I’m not big on hope, I’m big on action.
“there is not much left on the market. I think we should add Hayes.”
I’m open to considering that, but we still need an additional pair of young legs to help block shots on the interior, and that guy is Amundson.
“I also think we should bring Bogans back.”
I disagree.
“I want Mbenga. Solid defender, athletic, and 2 rings. He also, doesn’t demand mpg.”
I’m okay with Mbenga, if we can’t afford Amundson or Boone. The problem with Mbenga is that his lateral movement is a bit slow, and so he is not as good of a position defender or rebounder as is Amundson or Boone (although, at least he has good size, and has a solid rate of blocks per 48 minutes). The rings he has is virtually meaningless in terms of his value. He played like half the games at like 5 mpg.
July 31st, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Yeah sure, let’s get Shaq!! Whatever man. We’d be better off with a Lou Amundon bolstering our frontcourt.
The sight of Shaq in a Spurs uniform lumbering down the court would make me fucking sick.
July 31st, 2010 at 11:41 pm
ciao a tutti i tifosi dei San Antonio Spurs, volevo ringraziare coloro che mi hanno risposto riguardo il giocatore Malik Hairston
August 1st, 2010 at 5:46 am
I cannot believe anyone on this board is ripping the FO it’s literally the best in the game; I don’t know what people wanted. We couldn’t sign someone like Barnes because we were busy signing Tiago Splitter A BEAST. And just in case anyone is still confused he plays center. McDyess and Amundsson are about the same player; he is not an upgrade. Anyone on the suns gets inflated rebound numbers because they jack up garbage and take more shots. I cannot read another post ripping Pop and the FO; its literally disgusting.
August 1st, 2010 at 9:16 am
What’s done has been done. Hairston gone isn’t that big of a deal IMO. Though he did play good perimeter D, his ball handling and passing skills were left to be desired at the nba level.
The Spurs have, as it it stands now, some young, athletic “hopefulls” to play positions that were at best for the team last year mediocre achievements in Bogans, Mason and Hairston. If anything…Temple, Gee and Neal bring at least what the team has lost in the 3 outgoing players mentioned.
This is not a rip on the FO or an endorsement. It’s the facts.
Fact 1. Bonner is going to be Bonner. He IS a defensive liability. And if his shot is not falling, a useless piece of the puzzle at achieving the goal of title contention.
Enter Tiago Splitter who made a great name for himself overseas but still translucent to what he may do at the nba level much less how he will perform for the Spurs. Granted the excitement should be anticipated and he probably will be a good player in the league. He WILL have to perform at an expectation that many hope he can perform to make good for the lack of inside presense this team has lacked over the past 3 years.
Then there is DeJuan Blair. If he can perform at his per rate like last year without piling up as many fouls in the same short amount of time…the team will have a solid frontcourt foundation. This assuming Duncan can still be as productive a year later than his steadily declining numbers have been indicating.
However…if these things come to fruition…Bonner’s role will be hopefully and expectedly less than what he was relied upon in the past. 4mil per year seems like a lot for such a small role and too much for the role he was performing at in the past 2 years. His signing simply didn’t make sense without at least the team having talks with a player like Amundson or Boone. And who knows…perhaps the FO did have conversations with some better defensive bigs that were (are) available and negotiations didn’t go through.
Fact 2. Richard Jefferson, for as much as a lot of people hated for him to be on the team based on his production and pay scale compared to last year, probably was the best available SF the Spurs “realistically” had a chance of signing this off season.
And that leaves the Spurs without a “known” commodity as a b/u at the SF. But…it was known that the b/u’s at SF the team had last year were not dependable or consistant.
Everyone knows the team needs more consistant 3-point shooting. But why does it have to be in the form of a SF? Temple and Gee showed great promise while Neal is a great mid range, quick release shooter. If the shooting percentage goes up from other areas of the court other than SF…who cares? As long as it goes up.
So upon this, what else can the Spurs do?
Several trade mentions and signings have been discusse at nauseum. Many I have been in favor of including Kapono and Amundson or Boone.
But just to lick the chops some more I did a complete trade scenario situation team by team throughout the entire league to see what may be “realistically” available at this moment and/or even up to the start of the season.
The comparisons were done according to what another team “might” see as a benefit to them and not just to what the Spurs would acquire. Trust me…that takes a lot longer to navigate than basing a trade on who I would like the Spurs to have.
At SF two trades worked. The first is lopsided for the Spurs as far as talent coming and leaving but…depending on Portland and their plans for the future with healthy players…
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2fhgzas
Sure Batum is worth more than his salary suggests. But the Blazers are loaded (when healthy) of players that would fill his role. And if it were not for injuries…probably wouldn’t have played as much as he did. Jerrels and Gee give the Blazers both a needed 3rd string PG and young aggressive G/F combo who would excell in that atmosphere. Batum has one year left on his contract and will probably command more than what the Blazeers would be willing to pay after next year while being able to groom and use Jarrels and Gee for the primary role of support players on a team already loaded with high end talent.
The other trade is more likely in a realistic mode…
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23p86n7
Mbah a Moute would be that prototypical SF the Spurs don’t have outside of RJ and cost less to acquire. His 3-point shooting is consistant and his defense is presumably better than Kapono. The Bucks are in need of at least one if not two b/u PG’s. Of course I’m sure the Bucks might like to have Temple over Jarrells. If that were to be the case…it’s a tug as to rather that would be a win for the Spurs. But Mbah a Moute does have upside that could be developed and used effectively in the Spurs system as well as giving them that size needed at SF.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:06 am
Shaq definitely isn’t an answer for ANY team. I think the fact that every team in the league is passing him by should clue some people in on the fact that he isn’t a beast anymore, he’s just a fat cow. The only reason I can see for signing Shaq would be for the media attention / money he’d bring to a franchise.
Also, I can understand Pop playing Mason over Hairston, because in 08-09, Mason kicked ass. However, where did this whole “Bogans is a good defender” thing come from? He has 110% sucked ass since he entered the NBA.
When given his few chances, Hairston played average/good defense. Bogans couldn’t even manage that.
I really hope Hairston kicks ass in Europe and can eventually come back to the NBA and play for a team/coach that’ll give him some court time.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:29 am
FrostMo
August 1st, 2010 at 5:46 am
“McDyess and Amundson are about the same player; he is not an upgrade.”
Amundson’s NINE years younger, and you’re apparently dismissing this very salient fact:
“Amundson averaged 3.00 bpg./48 min. (12th in the league, just behind Camby), and McDyess averaged .95 bpg./48 mins. (75th in the league, just behind the SF, Martell Webster).”
BLOCKED SHOTS have ALWAYS been an important part to our championship success. We were ranked number one in our first three championship years. The last two years we were ranked 22nd & 27th, respectively. Even during our last championship, we ranked 9th, and stepped it up to number one during the post-season. Last post-season we were ranked 12th out of 16 teams! Amundson is comparable or better than McDyess in all other production categories, STEALS in particular. What is it that you don’t get?
“Anyone on the suns gets inflated rebound numbers because they jack up garbage and take more shots.”
Are you clueless, or just giving a VERY GOOD impression? The Suns were NUMBER ONE in FG% last year, and NUMBER ONE in 3-point %. Is that jacking up garbage? Take the garbage out of your brain, for a moment, please! Also, the Suns were basically in the middle of the pack in terms of FGA’s per game, ranked 13th. They took ONE POINT SIX more FGA’s per game than the Spurs, and made TWO POINT THREE more of them. Thus, certainly on the offensive end, Amundson DID NOT get more rebound opportunities per 48 minutes than McDyess. On the defensive end, because of the Sun’s opponents increased shot attempts and misses than vice versa for the Spurs, Amundson would get more rebound attempts than McDyess per 48 minutes. Taking both offfensive & defensive opportunities into account, Amundson would statistically be afforded about .26 more rpg. than McDyess per 48 minutes, but Amundson is in fact getting .8 more rpg./48 than McDyess. Thus, regardless of taking rebound opportunities into account, Amundson is as good of an overall rebounder as is McDyess, or slightly better.
Quit making up excuses that Amundson is not as good as he “appears”. It’s nonsense.
August 1st, 2010 at 12:40 pm
The Spurs DO need an Amundson type to solidify the interior D. Blair IS NOT TALL ENOUGH to provide weak side help without fouling. Blair is great at boxing out…grabbing rebounds…putting back shots. But he is not, nor ever will be, a terrific weak side defender.
Splitter MAY BE a great to good post player but has not proven a thing yet in an nba uniform. And at the rate that Duncan will continue his decline due to wear and tear….even he is not going to be the pronounced player he was just even 3 years ago.
Bonner? People really expect Bonner to be an inside presense?
YES this team needs an Amundson or Boone type to solidify the interior. And both could probably be had for what is left regarding the MLE. Would that not make more sense than paying Bonner 4 mil per just to be an oversized 3-point threat with hardly any interior defensive presense?
Anyway…with regards to the 3-point shooting. Does it really have to be another SF? If it can be accomplished by another player on the perimeter…what difference would it make if they played SG/SF or SG/PG? As long as it would be consistant right?
With that in mind…Temple, Gee and Neal all bring the possibility of being upgrades to what the team had in Bogans, Hairston and RMJ of last year. If that’s the case good for the FO in their decision.
But another prototypical SF to back up RJ would seem to be the consumate belief since having somebody over 6’6″ in that position would help in many ways that no matter how athletic one may be at 6’5″ could not do in that position against your best in the league who just so happen to be on the most legit contenders.
With that in mind…I know…and am in favor of in ceretain situations…to acquire Kapono.
But take a look at these options as well.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23p86n7
The Bucks are in need of PG help while Del Fino, Maggette, and Douglas-Roberts will all but take up their minutes at SF.
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute has the height, skills and upside to become a Spur. Jerrells is going to be in the same boat on a Spurs team full of guards.
August 1st, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Also regarding a protypical SF but looking at a stand point of where Portland might want to head after this season in regards to having to pay Batum after next season…
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2f856eo
Portland receives in Gee and Jerrells two role players that they would not have to expend future large salary amounts in acquiring to become role players on a team already stacked with talent and play a similar style of game as the Spurs. This of course depending on how well they think Babbitt is going to play.
This also works in giving up Temple in the deal instead of Gee. Which would sweeten the offer with regards to Portland. But is it something Pop would do to improve the Spurs chance of winning a title now during Duncan’s tenure?
August 1st, 2010 at 3:08 pm
rob
August 1st, 2010 at 12:40 pm
“Anyway…with regards to the 3-point shooting. Does it really have to be another SF? If it can be accomplished by another player on the perimeter…what difference would it make if they played SG/SF or SG/PG? As long as it would be consistant right?”
“But take a look at these options as well.”
I’m all in favor of being open to trades, and I like Moute, but we’d have to give up more than Jerrells to have a shot at getting him.
The problem is that we’re really over-stocked with guards. Just too many already.
rob
August 1st, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Also, there’s no way the Blazers give up Batum for Gee & Jerrells.
August 1st, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Jim
“I’m all in favor of being open to trades, and I like Moute, but we’d have to give up more than Jerrells to have a shot at getting him.”
Perhaps a little more. But maybe not as much more than getting Kapono.
All of course if giving up McDyess meant having the chance of landing Kapono and the Spurs don’t sign either Amundson or Boone.
But there is a sliver of opportunity that still rests in trade options depending on how the rest of the summer plays out.
I’ve looked at a lot of options. Too many to list because I did a trade analysis between the Spurs and every team. There simply isn’t much that the Spurs (or another team) could garnish without ultimately being the loser in the deal.
Moute was the best deal I could find for the value where both teams would have to give compared to the roster they both have at the time.
Batum was a wish. But even if it meant having to give up Gee and Temple plus a draft pick…I would seriously consider that if I were the Spurs. Portland might not. But at what future expense (or loss of) do they get for Batum if they are already that much over the cap with who they have now? Role players would be an excellent move to fill the gap at a decent secure price. That plus…how is Babbitt going to fit in their plan?
August 1st, 2010 at 7:04 pm
rob
August 1st, 2010 at 5:43 pm
“Perhaps a little more. But maybe not as much more than getting Kapono.”
Agreed. Moute has a limited game. He’s not a shooter (certainly from range), but the guy is tough, can defend, and is a pretty decent rebounder. He’s really an energy guy that is somewhat of a tweener - SF/PF - he’s not an all-around player at either position, but does some of each pretty well. But defense is his game. He’s got enough size & quickness to guard the better/stronger/quicker SF’s, which of course, is a nice asset to have.
“But there is a sliver of opportunity that still rests in trade options depending on how the rest of the summer plays out.”
Lets hope so!
“That plus…how is Babbitt going to fit in their plan?”
Babbitt has the chance of becoming a nice rotation player in Portland, and is likely to be a good compliment to Batum (e.g., rebounds better, a more versatile shooter/scorer, but is unlikely to ever be as good of a defender). Trust me, we’d have to give up someone like Blair to get Batum. Which, by the way, I wouldn’t do (even though I like Batum quite a bit).
August 2nd, 2010 at 11:44 am
“In last years playoffs, Amundson had more rebounds than McDyess per 48 minutes, as well as more steals per 48 minutes, and more blocks per 48 minutes.”
If you’re going to make that comparison, you should also disclose that Blair had less turnovers and more points, rebounds (offensive, defensive, and total), blocks, steals, and assists per 48 minutes than Amundson in last year’s playoffs. He also shot better from the free throw line. The only statistical category where Amundson beat Blair in last year’s playoffs was FG% (52.8% to 50.0%).
August 2nd, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Jinx
August 2nd, 2010 at 11:44 am
It doesn’t make much sense to pluck out one of my sentences from an earlier post, take it out of context, and then try to make a point that I was never engaged in (comparing Amundson to Blair, using JUST playoff numbers). Much of my case in support of Amundson was looking at his numbers compared to McDyess during the 82 game regular season. I only mentioned the playoff numbers to suggest that his regular season numbers seemed to carry over fine into the post season in comparison to McDyess, which was intended to counter the post of: ali
July 30th, 2010 at 3:52 pm. But the point is not to solely emphasize statistical comparisons among players per 48 minutes for 10-14 playoff games (Spurs/Suns), particularly if using ONLY the playoff stats for a guy that played only 9.1 mpg. (Blair), as you did.
Further, I wasn’t comparing Blair with Amundson. I was comparing McDyess with Amundson, and I used the 82 game regular season of data to establish much of my main point: that Amundson put up broadly better numbers last year than McDyess, and that he’s 27 years old, not 36. In particular, that he’s an EXCELLENT shot-blocker (3.00/48m during the regular season), a skill we really need some improvement on for our front line, and one that neither Blair nor McDyess are particularly adept at (1.25/48m, .95/48m, during the regular season, respectively).
August 3rd, 2010 at 4:25 pm
I think Hairston saw Gary Neal get a guaranteed contract, and then told the Spurs either to guarantee his contract as well, or he’s outta here. The Spurs braintrust took the latter option.
J2
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