Friday, February 19th, 2010...9:22 am
Repercussions: When Good GMs Do Nothing
Throughout the Tim Duncan era the Spurs have operated on a certain stonecutters credo. Ironically, they now operate between a rock and a hard place. With a broken chisel.
The rock? Richard Jefferson’s burdensome contract. The hard place? The NBA Salary Cap. In the short term, there will be those who are disappointed that the Spurs didn’t make a move based off what it represents this season.
Heading into the week I argued that the Spurs needed to make a trade, if only to exchange their expiring contracts for similar role players who would become assets next season. Without an influx of talent at this deadline, the Spurs could find themselves in a worse position next year.
The salary cap this year is $57.7 million. The Spurs will head into next year right at that figure with only 7 players under contract, assuming they keep Hairston-and assuming the cap does not drop.
Roger Mason already wants to leave, Michael Finley could very well retire, the Spurs already declined an opportunity to extend Ian Mahinmi and whether or not Keith Bogans has earned another season here is debatable.
That’s four assets who, once expired, will not even add up to cap relief. Essentially salary cap wasted.
Assuming the Spurs sign Tiago Splitter with the entire midlevel exception, the Spurs will have to choose between minimum salary players and their own free agents in filling in the gaps around Parker, Hill, (possibly) Hairston, Jefferson, Blair, McDyess and Duncan.
The Spurs have a first round pick, but given their financial situation there is a large possibility they opt to go with their usual draft and stash. And even if they keep their pick, there’s only so many times you can find a George Hill or DeJuan Blair that can contribute right away, the odds are against us.
For all his flaws, Bonner is better than anyone you can find for the league minimum so the Spurs almost have to resign him because he’s the only one of that quality they can legally sign.
And then there’s Manu Ginobili. At several points in the season Ginobili has made it known that for once he can see himself wearing another jersey. The Spurs almost have to resign him because with his bird rights, he is the only shooting guard of any quality the Spurs can sign this summer.
Ginobili also holds a huge advantage in negotiations. Even the Spurs must, at some point, consider their ticket sales. Ginobili is by far the most popular player in San Antonio and without any major talent coming in, how many season ticket holders would renew if he leaves?
Complicating matters is the fact that there are several teams who have cleared a lot of cap space for a run at a 2010 max free agent, a few of which will have to turn their attention towards one of several consolation prizes.
Hypothetically, the Knicks could land Chris Bosh and then use their remaining cap space to either lure away or drive up the price of Ginobili. As could the Bulls, whose window of cap space is limited because they have to extend Rose and Noah eventually.
And even driving up the costs of Ginobili could be enough to ruin the Spurs. Peter Holt took a big gamble, essentially going all-in while chasing a straight or flush this season. So far it’s been a bad beat and with that in mind, a choice might have to be made between Ginobili and Splitter for financial reasons.
Following this roster analysis, next year’s team could look like this: Parker, Hill, Ginobili, Hairston, Jefferson, Blair, Bonner, McDyess, Splitter, and Duncan with two minimum salaried players needed to fill out the roster.
Duncan, Ginobili and McDyess will all be another year older, Parker will have another summer of international basketball on his legs and our depth in the backcourt would be severely compromised.
Short of the big three finding the fountain of youth (not likely) the lone saving grace is that next season Richard Jefferson’s contract goes from burden to expiring, which makes it very valuable.
Unfortunately most of the teams who were looking to drastically cut salary were able to do so this season, so short of somone’s rebuilding project this summer falling dramatically short, the Spurs might have his expiring contract a year too late to get back an impact player.
Once again, timing is everything.
60 Comments
February 19th, 2010 at 9:32 am
While i love reading your articles, i did not enjoy this one. So sad the spurs turned into one of the teams with to much payroll and underachieving performers? What happened to the FO. Im not used to them making bad decisions like this. Going to be a long couple of years.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:43 am
This is horrible, this is the end of the Spurs as we know it, we got rid of all the young guys that could have helped. I’m sure they know more than we do, but it definitely doesn’t seem that way.
Oh well, I feel bad for Timmy, he retires in about 2 years which will mean no championship in the last 5 years of his career. Oh well… happens to the best of them..
February 19th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Great posts and Great podcasts so far!
I think you should also discuss the fact that CBA negotiations are going to be a huge factor in whatever decisions the Spurs make, it’s going to be very difficult for teams like the Spurs to hand out multi year contracts knowing that major changes are coming to contract amounts and contract limits.
Also regarding Splitter, I really hope he is able to be signed for less than the entire MidLevel, he is still unproven and I think a deal similiar to what Scola, and Gasol have recently signed 3 years/$9 million would be appropriate.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:59 am
What makes you say Manu is the most popular player on the team? What about Duncan?
February 19th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Jesse, from the piece is sounds like you believe our cap situation isn’t good. If that is the case, I’d have to disagree for a couple reasons.
First, I think you might be underestimating the value of RJ’s expiring contract. Sure, tons of cap was cleared this year by a lot of teams. However, with only a few max players, I think many teams will be come up empty and instead of overpaying as they’ve done in the past, many will stand pat and avoid one of the major sins - overpaying for average talent (I think this one of the overarching themes that’s become evident to even the worst offenders as a result of the recession). As a result, based on the sluggish economy, the fact that several teams will still be bleeding money, and the looming CBA fight, I think teams will still highly value the prospect of shedding salary. Also, McDyess’ contract will also essentially be an expiring - only partially guaranteed in 2011/12 I believe.
As for Gino, I happen to think we’ll resign him for a reasonable amount ($5-6 M per) without much of a fight. At the end of the day, I get the impression he still wants to retire a Spur, and that we still need/want to keep him. And getting back to my point above, the potential cost of bidding up Manu’s deal and having it backfire is probably not worth it for most teams at this point. The potential cap hit NY or Chicago would take if the Spurs unexpectedly let him walk isn’t worth it. Not saying we couldn’t see this unfold, but just not to the extent you might have seen it 5 years ago.
The 10 man rotation you mentioned above is also one I wouldn’t be disappointed with. Even with another birthday for everyone, that’s still a better rotation than we have now. Add a 2/3 and a 4/5 for insurance and you have a decent squad. Maybe not championship caliber, but like I said, flip RJ/Mcdyess/both for a nice piece and maybe you get there.
Relatively speaking, I think our cap situation is in decent shape. We have some wiggle room if need be (with expirings) and we have a couple nice young pieces (Blair, Hill, Splitter, our picks this offseason). One thing I always come back to - this organization, from the owner down to the players,will not settle for mediocre. If there is any way we can make this team better, that avenue will be pursued.
Cheers.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:24 am
The entire continent of south america loves Manu. As far as jersey sales, etc, i would bet the bank Ginobili leads the way.
As far as the article: Bogans is not debatable. He sucks. Get him the hell out of here.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:29 am
One quick question. Would the Spurs have to use the mid-level exception to sign Splitter since he is technically a draft pick? I know teams can go over cap to sign draft picks but don’t know if that still counts in this instance.
As far as the summer of 2011 goes, there are still going to be plenty of quality unrestricted free agents out there as well as some restricted free agents worth going for, so I think RJ’s contract will still be worthwhile, considering he is still a good player (just in the wrong place) and that is a good chunk of change to be freeing up. Almost as important is Tony Parker’s contract. Of the big 3, I think he is the most likely to WANT to leave so I think unloading him would be, while not necessary, able to bring in an excellent return providing he stays healthy.
I know RJ backfired, but I still have faith in Pop and Holt to figure this thing out.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:40 am
I think the reason everyone is confident in being able to sign Splitter is because he isn’t going to be treated as a draft pick. This leaves us able to sign him for additional money, hopefully making him want to come to the Spurs.
Duncan is one of the greatest players in franchise and NBA history, but I think the spark Ginobili brings and his relatability make him adored by all Spurs fans.
I have confidence in the Spurs that they can make a run this season. But as for the future, it looks pretty uncertain.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Ginobili is gone after this season for one simple reason: the guy will stop at nothing to win.
Think about it, Manu could have been an all-star every year if he played 35 minutes a game on any other team. He sacrificed starter’s minutes — and the consequent money — for the sake of 3 rings with San Antonio.
All we Spurs fans talk about is Timmy’s fading window to win a championship, but Manu is in that same situation. Manu only has a couple of years left to win a championship as well. And he knows this.
Therefore, I would not be surprised if he opts to leave for a team with a more realistic shot at the championship.
But here’s the double whammy: he will probably get a better contract offer from one of these teams anyway.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:10 am
My biggest fear is a slow and steady decline in the Spurs win column over the next 2-3 years before the Front Office decides to make some tough decisions. I’ve never quite understood why every other team wants young talent, but Pop seems to have an aversion to it. I’m not a Pop basher, but that is the one knock I have on him. Sure he developed Manu and Tony, but there was a huge time gap between them and George Hill and Dejuan Blair. We really need multiple first round picks over the next few years to start this whole thing over again. Perhaps RJ’s contract can net us some decent young talent. I’ve said for a while that RJ’s contract could be next years version of the Tmac contract. One thing’s for sure, unless we get a Pau Gasol-like trade perhaps involving RJ, then the Spurs have very little hope in a championship. And if that is truly the case, then we are already in rebuild mode (which is essentially what the Ratliff trade was and admission of).
February 19th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Realistic Possible Manu Suitors
Teams I could see throwing the full MLE for multiple years:
Cavs
Portland
Mavs
Rockets
All of the above teams have owners that have been very willing to spend if it gets them a quality player.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:47 am
Waaaaay to early to panic. Plenty of time later for wrist slitting, should all these negative dominos fall in order. I choose to believe that while it’s accurate to assume that not every positive is going to work in the Spurs’ favor, neither will all the negatives happen. And a FO that drafted Blair and Hill in consecutive years deserves a better than 50/50 optimistic belief that they’ll draft another solid player, much as dysfunctional teams that continually make awful picks deserve their pessimism.
I also ask that those who are so stressed at the prospect of losing Manu do not use his eventual resigning as a negative to talk of how old and vulnerable the team is.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:51 am
The answer is to trade Tony for multiple pieces. He would be a hell of a consolation prize for teams that miss out on the big FA’s. The Spurs should not be excited about rebuilding this team around a PG in his 30′s whose game depends on quickness. Especially one who refuses to rest his legs.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:54 am
@Cory Clay: I’d add the the Clipper and Knicks to the list of teams that could chase Manu.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Now they have too many similar swingmen who don’t get enough time to play and get used to the system. The reseason why it doesn’t have the consistency is because pop plays too many people.
On the otherhand, the front line of spurs is still way smaller and weaker than the lakers, and needs a real center to help TD. Blair is talented, but he is not a center, and he is too small!
February 19th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
so we may be trying to land big Z. any thoughts, tim, graydon? i suppose he would help in the short term.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
I think I’d puke if I witnessed Manu don a Mavs jersey…
Clevland is waaaay over cap space as it is, and I think the Rockets would pull for him because of his ties with Scola. We’ll see.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
I also don’t understand the comment undervaluing the draft picks that we hold this year. This is a pretty solid draft with players that we have the potential of getting to contribute, and honestly I feel the draft is our best option to bring in young athletic talent since we clearly cant compete in free agency.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Relax, everyone. I have the answer: trade all our centers for second round draft picks in 2016.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
I’d probably stop watching the Spurs if Manu was chased out of town and signed with a rival like the Mavs. Manu MUST finish his career as a Spur, and he should get paid a fair market value contract, not forced to take less than he deserves.
I believe the Spurs will do right by him this summer, I don’t think his value is enormously high to the teams with cap room. He’s got All-Star talent, but he’s on the downside of his career and injury prone to boot, why would another team throw a ton of money at him?
February 19th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Yeah, too many variables between now and then to form any solid determinations as to what Manu and the Spurs will do. We’ll just have to wait and see how it plays out.
Also, the sign and trade markets this offeason should be pretty hot. Keep an eye out on that. If a team believes one of their FA’s is definitely leaving, I can see how shedding $15M from the books might sound appealing, ex. - Rudy Gay.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
To everyone saying Manu will be valued at 5-6 million this off-season…….
You all are crazy and lost.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
The reason we undervalue draft picks is because we alway either send them overseas, they stay overseas, they are stuck in D-League where we hear great things but we never truly reap the benefits because either they’re traded or glued to the bench never to truly shine and be groomed on an NBA level like other teams do with their talents. Oh yeah, sure you could mention Dejuan Blair and George Hill but face it they got rare opportunities that few in a spurs uni as a rookie get and that minute on the NBA level to get that college state of mind out the window, let all the jitters go and grow up with big boys so what makes you so sure pop would change and just hand the keys to what was a fine tuned machine to a bunch of freshly picked draft picks? Where not talking once in a lifetime picks like a Tim Duncan a Kobe Bryant or even a Shaq, it would be some nice player but not transcendent to the sport or a franchise John Wall possibly but I guess you can dream can’t you. I will just hope the best for my spurs even though the FO makes it harder to do with more and more questionable mistakes detrimental to the team.
February 19th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Let’s worry about Manu taking off after this season is over. I have to say, unless this team makes a major turnaround, I’m not looking forward to the news I will see on this site. It was nice speculating about a trade and getting way too much discussion over Theo.
Let’s hope the Spurs will find a way to surprise us, hopefully with success, and pray the FO figures out what to do in the off season.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
is there any possibility we could sign ilgauskas once he’s bought out? i don’t know if there’s a salary cap rule that requires teams over the cap can only sign free agents for the vet minimum, but if not, maybe the ratliff deal saved enough money for the spurs to throw a little extra big z’s way.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
@Tim Varner, I agree the Clippers and Knicks are also potential landing spots but I wonder if Manu would go to either of those teams.
@Jacob, sorry about what happened to you on Lost, that was not cool. Even though teams like the Cavs and Mavs will be over the cap they will still have the MLE to throw at somebody and if both owners have shown they will throw money and caution out the window.
I would be especially worried about the Cavs, if they resign Lebron, Manu would be a perfect player for what they do and the pieces they already have. Plus Dan Gilbert, the Cavs owner, will outspend almost anyone. I read that recently a vote was passed that will allow him to open up Casinos in OH, he will basically be able to print money.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
I agree that the lack of a meaningful trade before the deadline will hinder long-term plans for the Spurs. And that’s huge if you are of the mindset that the Spurs should start rebuilding now. But I’m rooting for our current lineup. And I’ve seen a glimmer of hope in our last game against Indiana. Overall, the Spurs shot horribly- with Duncan going 4 for 23. Nonetheless, with scrappy play and intense defense that resulted in key fourth-quarter stops , the Silver and Black won it ugly. That reminds of me of the Spurs of old, which tells me things are getting better.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
I think deep down inside Manu wants to stay a Spur.
But its also business. So if the right offer comes along why wouldn’t he take it?
Can you really blame him if he is offered more money by the CAVS? Assuming LBJ is still their.
Or even the Knicks or Clips. BOthe those cities have huge latino communities. Maybe he’ll want a change of scenery.
For the record Manu is my favorite player, not just Spur. If he stays, great. If he moves, Ill still follow his career.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
@Cory, hard cap in new CBA may limit the Gilberts and Cubans of this world.
@rj, I’d like to get Big Z but unless life with Shaq is completely unbearable I assume he’s going back to Cleveland.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Here is my prediction with Manu no matter how the rest of the season plays out:
Spurs offer at most a 2 year deal at $7 Million per year. With the lockout coming the 2nd year will only be a portion of the $7 million. The Spurs will not go past a 2 year offer b/c of the ramifications the contract would have with the new CBA.
vs
Cavs, Mavs, possibly Blazers and Rockets offering the full midlevel for 4 or 5 years.
The choice will basically be whether Manu wants to take the 2 year deal at more money per or the long term deal with more money as a whole.
I don’t think the teams that have cap space will really come into the equation b/c I don’t think Manu is going to chase $, which would be his main reason for signing on a team like the Knicks, Bulls, Kings, etc.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
I agree with the comments above about RJ and TP’s contracts, and the upside to life without Tony. That said, getting value back is not always easy. And getting a good fit complicates it even more. Extra draft picks, well used, can ease that pain a lot. We REALLY do face a rebuilding era during Timmy’s final phase… NOT what I was hoping for!
I’m rooting, at least, that we will get playoff seeding every year Tim plays even if it mean we go out early, as we are likely too… I think taking your team to the playoffs in this conference every single year strengthens his legacy… Kobe failed to do just that. Striking Lottery Gold eases most pains, however. And if our guys can play loose, play smart, play great energetic defense, and develop young guys on the court… that’s a lot for me to root for. Ironically, by next year, RJ will probably be playing more like he should.
That said, I agree with the above points about using our draft picks from here on out, and/or getting valuable young talent. (Houston made a pretty good move, even if Kevin isn’t the best move for them, considering the draft bonuses.) Even draft steals can break your heart, considering second rounders Michael Redd and Arenas, and even Boozer, but I’ll still take it, not to mention undrafted guys like Ben Wallace… if we draft great, and sign some underrated defenders only to watch them bloom, we can put together stellar team players… which is another way to lift my spirits during this era when other teams are so dominant, and the spurs just aren’t. If we win again with Timmy, it ain’t gonna be with this Big 3.
There’s no two ways about it, the big 3 championship era really is over…please, please, please be fun to watch, play smart, and give great defensive effort! And give those young guys every chance to succeed.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
@doggydogworld the new CBA won’t be in effect yet and this offseason will probably be the last year that owners over the cap will probably be able to offer deals like the Rockets offered Ariza and Lakers offered Artest.
Also since big time wealthy owners like the Cavs, Mavs, and Blazers know that times are changing this might be the last chance they have for awhile to get an impact player along these means.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Can we cut it out with the Manu in a Mavs jersey nightmare? They have JET and plenty of young guys anyway.
It’s almost as depressing, but I could see Manu going to the Bulls with Bosh, or the Nets with Amare, Miami with Wade and Boozer, or even replacing RayRay in Boston, or the Clippers (how sad)… unfortunately there’s alot of teams that would offer him a good deal, and the chance to have a lot of fun… I don’t think the Mavs are one of them, Thank God. I think we’re way better off, if he retires a Spur.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
I don’t know what to think, honestly I’m a bit disappointed. However, I’m glad we didn’t make a move just to make a move. I think next year, we will have a better market for RJ and Parker. I think we should trade Parker, because I have a feeling he’ll bolt. He wants to win another championship as much as Timmy and Manu do. He’s already said he doesn’t want to play on a losing, rebuilding team too.
Worst case is we could trade Parker for a couple, young, good, players, and let RJ expire to save money.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
@td4life, sorry but just being realistic.
@duaneofly, trading Parker is a possibility but in my opinion not b/c he might bolt (I expect the new CBA to make it much more enticing for players to stay with their current teams) but b/c if he comes back and plays well in the beggining of next season it might time to sell high on Mr. Parker
February 19th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
I have always admired the way the Spurs conduct themselves win or lose. During those years the Spurs were either contenders or champions they won with class and lost with class. Never ones to make excuses when they failed or be boastful when they won. Despite their underachievement this year, I still believe they can win. However, they need another big! Mahinmi’s performance down the stretch, assuming Popovich plays him, will provide the size and athleticism needed in the front line, along with the individual skills of Duncan, McDyess and Blair, to beat the elite teams.
Here is hoping the old war horses, with the help of some young stallions, see the finish line and raise their level of performance to win one more championship.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Also, does anyone on here besides myself follow Bruce Bowen on Twitter? He’s had a couple of jabs that seem to be directed at Roger Mason ever since the trade request became public.
Bowen has said his comments were about a variety of different players but it is more than obvious that he is specifically addressing the situation with Mason and the Spurs. Has anyone else seen these comments? And is that the reason that Bowen was not brought back in a role similar to what Finley has now? While having Bowen wouldn’t be the solution to all of our woes he would help balance the lack of Corporate knowledge that the Spurs are currently dealing with and I would have no problem with Bowen taking the spot minutes that currently go to Bogans.
Thoughts?
Would Bowen in a limited role have been a plus for the Spurs this season?
Would Bowen’s ego have been able to handle such a limited role?
February 19th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
A few things.
I honestly don’t think Tony Plays summertime ball with France this year. It was a loaded question to throw at him, and he gave the stock response.
No way he was going to hang himself out to dry with his French connections.
I’m happy with the roster add of Splitter, keeping bonner, taking a flyer on a draft pick, and seeing what we can get with RJ’s expiring, provided we get Manu back.
I’d like to see what that squad could do.
February 19th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
@Cory Clay
Bowen’s ego, like Finely’s, could have been able to handle it. BB, along with TD, and Manu are among my all-time favorite players… and I always said we were never “a Big 3, we were always a Big 4 with Bruce “SuperGlue” Bowen!”… this year’s play helps confirm that… that said, though he was still an above average defender, he had little long-term value, the FO was looking to upgrade and thought RJ was that answer, so they did what they had to do to get him, and it didn’t work. It would have helped us more this season if we had Bruce, instead of Finley, backing up RJ but the Spurs have always needed scoring… I didn’t see the RJ and McD pickups as championship-caliber ’cause I believed (and still do believe) we needed stars and power play; I would have been more excited if we’d also moved Tony last summer… That said, if McD had clicked in perfectly, we stayed healthy, and RJ had given us a 19ppg and great play on both ends of the court, we would be number 2 in the West right now (and the national media would be saying “we told you so”, however we’d still get bounced by the Lakers, who (prior to this trade deadline, at least) would still be contenders even with 2 major injuries, as their recent play has validated.)
On a side note: The Knicks will have 4 players under contract come summer time, a ton of cap space, and very few draft picks… I think it would BE HILARIOUS if among Cle, Mia, NJ, Clippers, Chi, and/or Atl+Toronto all the big names on the market were grabbed up or retained, including David Lee… HILARIOUS! Seriously, friggin’ Hilarious!… who’s with me on this one?
Something like this, or the equivalent:
Amare to NJ
JJ and Lee to Atl or Clippers
Boozer to Toronto
Wade and Bosh to Chi
Bron stays home
Knicks… SOL! And D’Antoni goes crawling back to PHX. Or maybe the clippers. LOL!
February 19th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
Pursue Chris Bosh via free agency. Then entice Raptors to take Jefferson in a sign and trade and include rights to Splitter, once it becomes apparent that Bosh will not return to Toronto. That way Toronto doesn’t let Bosh walk for nothing and they get an expiring contract in return plus Splitter. A 2 for 1 for Toronto.
Spurs get Chris Bosh, the 2nd twin tower needed to pursue a championship. Duncan, Bosh, Blair, and McDyess @ PF and C for next year.
Chris Bosh should be the Spurs main goal, that way Ginobili will feel enticed to stay.
February 19th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Corey,
Money with the Lost reference!
February 19th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
I actually have another suggestion for who to look to trade for:
Andre Iguodala.
Just looking at the stats for this game I am blown away, and think that him roaming 2/3 for us would be a dream come true. I love the way the guy plays and think a pick-and-roll with Andre and Tim would be pretty devastating. That, and he’s a good $5 million cheaper than Bosh would be.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Bonner and Bogans aren’t good enough to re-enter the game in the 1st half, after starting the game? Why do they start in the 1st place? Has Pop lost his darn mind? Stop the lunacy. Put Bonner and Bogans at the end of the bench. Yeesh. Can’t Pop see they suck? What is going on?
Will someone tell George Hill to stop allowing his man to dribble straight to the basket for layups? Make him go around you for goodness sake. Stop standing to the side and letting your man drive to the basket creating a 2 on 1 for a layup or putback layup by Duncan’s or Blair’s man because they had to come over to help. Play more straight up one on one defense. Louis Williams torched you for like 12 pts in the 4th qtr alone.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
You have to resign Ginobili. Hairston sucks, so let him go with Bogans, the way of Ujokea and Vaughn. all garbage.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Yesse, going all in and missing your straight or flush is certainly not a “Bad Beat”… Most of the time you are significantly behind in the hand, and even if you had overcards to the board and four to a flush you are only slightly favored against a pair.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
@Ivmainman
That would be a miracle if Bosh would approve a sign&trade to come to our veteran team versus a win-now-and-in-the-future team like Portland where Toronto could get more value back in Aldridge plus another quality player (a Bayless or Przybilla). Or Bosh just signs with someone like Chicago. Not to mention, the Spurs are way over the cap, they don’s have the room to sign a max player WITHOUT GIVING UP A LOT MORE THAN RJ PLUS SIX OTHER GUYS (!!!) in order to try to get an allstar. You read that right: giving up 7 GUYS (including RJ) still puts us at the salary cap, which may even be lower next year, so you think we are gonna sign a franchise player on top of that, and pay for him times 2 in luxury tax?!
Guys like Marc Gasol, for that matter, are also nearly impossible to get, as they are virtually untradable.
We only have a few options:
1) root for the guys we have, and hope to see them give great effort, like they believe they can beat Goliath (and like they don’t know in the back of their mind what it requires to be a champion ball club)… i.e. they ALL play like Manu Ginobili, Mario Elie, and Malik Rose… meanwhile hoping for great draft picks that the organization sticks with and develops.
2) we continue to sign aging guys, believing they will put us over the top somehow, by playing far better than they are supposed to (even though that has never really worked for any team, ask Phoenix, and Juwan Howard and Chris Webber, etc, etc). Or we play unproven guys, hoping they will shock the nation.
3) Pop once said that eventually we will have to trade all-stars for all-stars… Bye-bye Big 3…. hopefully doing so will get truly extraordinary talent back… otherwise we are better off trading big-time talent for several young pieces and maybe draft picks who turn out to be spectacular after they arrive here, even if we have to take on a bad contract to do so. Possibly Darren Collison types?
4) count on Pop and RC to go hard after smart young defensive talent by outbidding their current teams and/or taking on bad contracts. Think of young Shane Battier types, young Bruce Bowens, think of Nicalos Batum (who is looking like he’s making huge growth offensively), 0r rookie-Paul Milsap-kind-of-guys, Thabo Sefolosha… this is much better than signing splashy Monta Ellis, Al Harrington, Danny Granger or Ben Gordon-types long term. Such a foundation will make it easy to attract, draft, or acquire franchise scorers, in short order.
I know Spurs fans, I’m not supposed to talk about changing our roster… but, like you, I AM CURRENTLY rooting for great hustle and passion from our guys, (see #1 above) and for bold, smart moves by the FO… they are gonna have to be keen and crafty, Ivmainman, b/c obvious moves, such as Chris Bosh, are virtually impossible.
(Luckily, we know they have a good eye for talent: Manu, Tony, Blair, Hill, Scola/Barbosa/Goran Dragic, Claxton/Mason Jr/Udrih… if only Pop will keep them, maybe we’ll have too much young talent which is a problem that Portland has had with their perimeter depth even when heavily injured.)
February 19th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Ratliff looked pretty good tonight with couple of blocks and some hustle on the boards. I still don’t fully get why SA literally dumped him. Sure Pop wasn’t gonna give him minutes, but he sure could contribute on defense come playoffs.
February 19th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
Spurs front office been making some bad decisions lately, and not resigning manu would be the end of the Spurs as we know it! I would kinda of compare it to when chancey left the pistons, pistons just went down! Disappointed Spurs didnt make any trades(oh yeah salary dump and a future draft pick in 2016)! they didnt take advantage of all these expiring contracts! F@#k a 2nd rd draft pick years from now, we needed players NOW to help! and while I’m at it F@#k this small ball were trying to play, it aint working out! Please somebody wake the F@#K up! is it me or does anybody else questions pops rotations! it seems like when your getting hot your getting yanked! I guess I’m just not used to all this losing and poor making decisions Spurs been making lately!
February 19th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
RJ is expiring next season, so during the summer, RJ could be moved for a team looking to clean up salary. So anything is possible in that realm.
February 19th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
…anyone notice that Theo Ratliff played 19 minutes in his first game in a Bobcat uniform, and the ‘Cats beat Lebron and the Cavs…
…just putting it out there.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
@td4life,
I believe you’re factually mistaken about the Spurs having to give up 7 players for Chris Bosh. We’d only have to give up 2 if one of them is Richard Jefferson. Bosh currently makes $15 mil and is limited I believe to a 10% increase on a new contract to $16.5 mil. Richard Jefferson makes $15 mil next yr. So, the Spurs would need another contract worth more than $1.5 mil.. But, to entice the Raptors I believe the Spurs would need to add a sweetner like rights to Splitter.
So the notion the Spurs would have to trade 7 players for Chris Bosh is completely erroneous.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
If Pau Gasol can be traded for Kwame Brown, Jarvis Crittendon, and an unknown Marc Gasol why can’t the Spurs trade for Chris Bosh with Richard Jefferson and unknown Tiago Splitter?
February 19th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
I bet if we traded our first and second round pick in 2011 plus second round pick from rstliff trade and jefferson,mahinmi, we would probably be able to nag chris bosh cause he is a texan fan. Him timmy, tiago,blair,mcdyess would be one of the best backcourts in history similarly to duncan and robinson. Something similar to this would do wonders for our team next season. Facing reality, I don’t really think we will make it past the second round of the playoffs. I mean the only reason we lost tonight is because of poor shooting. This will continue.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
The reason the Spurs have not been signing the young players to me is simple, when the Spurs made it to the top of the heap, they chose vet. type players to help them stay at the top of the heap. This has kept the Spurs contending for years, but eventually your stars start getting old. The Spurs have done an excellent job of staying at or near the top during the Duncan era. There are a lot of great players that have never won even one championship let alone 4. I believe Pop knows this and believe he knows you only have so many years before its all over and you have to rebuild. This is also the reason for picking up R.J. and letting B.B. go. I thought this was a mistake from the start, becuse I believe B.B. was one of our core players. Reading all the commits shows alot of good points about how thing may or may not turn out next year its going to be interesting to see how it turns out. I’ll make one more point, how many times during the Pop era have you seen them pull a rabbit or two out of thier hats.
February 20th, 2010 at 12:09 am
The Spurs are done. This team has no heart and no brains. This team is content with losing. This season and many more to come are a complete waste.
The front office quit.
The head coach is so dumb he is starting two D league players.
And most of the players on this team (except TD,TP,Manu, Dice) are just happy to be in the NBA.
No one has the heart to stand up and suggest to the coach he has too many people in the rotation.
Mason tried to hint at it by asking for a trade and they wouldn’t trade him.
As long as this team has Gregg Popovich as coach and part time GM, they will continue to lose. His formula only worked in the past because he had the most dominant PF in the world and the best perimeter defender in the game to bail him out.
Now that TD has lost a step, and he traded the best perimeter defender he had. Things will never be the same.
I personally feel extremely sorry for the true NBA players left on this team. They are showing tremendous professionalism playing for a complete idiot and not talking about it publicly.
Only an absolute fool would start Matt Bonner at center and Keith Bogans at small forward, and expect to win.
It’s no wonder he is playing 11 and 12 man rotations, you have to, when two of the starters should be the 11th and 12th man off the bench.
February 20th, 2010 at 1:16 am
@Ivmainman-
You are right about the salaries, I was muddled in my thinking, and my figures were what salary we’d have to dump in order to sign guys… RJ and all of our expirings, except for resigning Manu, still puts us right at the cap limit.
Still, there’s no way Toronto even listens to RJ as good value in a trade, considering what Portland, Utah, or bad teams with good younger players and good draft picks, such as what Golden State or Washington, could offer. The LA-Gasol trade was unprecedented… Toronto has a vet GM, whereas Chris Wallace just needed to clear salary- Toronto won’t be looking to clear cap space so much as to get a lot of talent back. But Bosh will be in the driver’s seat; he might sentimentally choose hometown Dallas, but think about it, wouldn’t he go play with up&coming all-stars for the next 10 years, versus aging guys on the downside of their careers, and then be on the outside looking in all over again? Then again, you can just watch and see what happens in July.
It’s much more realistic to unload guys off of under-performing teams with more talent than they can pay to keep once their younger guys are due for new contracts. Golden State, Philly, Chicago… big athletic perimeter guys like Maggette, Iggy Hops and Deng have always been very gettable (just ask Artest, S-Jax, Odom, and Ariza), so are guys like Mike Miller, and Battier. RJ is supposed to be one of those guys, although he never had real hunger/spirit/heart. Young guys, and great defenders, are even more under-the-radar.
Manu is currently one of the top 8 best guards in the NBA (Wade, CP3, Kobe, Nash, Roy, Billups, Williams… with Rondo and Joe Johnson rounding out the top 10) according to Hollinger’s rankings (which show Timmy as the league’s best center, and that’s not adding value for intangibles/quiet defense). If you put several scrappy guys like that with Tim and Manu, and get them to play defense, we are really, really tough to beat. And this is doable. Look at what Charlotte did tonight, imagine if Tim and Manu had those guys next to them… Nazr and Oberto, currently out-perform Bonner with similar court time, Jermaine O’Neal is playing far better than most big men in the league right now. Troy Murphy is on the trading block. Chris Anderson. A few truly scrappy guys playing quite well for up to 20 minutes in your front court. After this last flurry of trades, RC will see what DeAndre Jordon, Ty Thomas, Al Thorton can do. Maybe it doesn’t impress the average fan, maybe it doesn’t scare too many teams, but then the Spurs sneak up on ‘em.
All I’m saying is it’s unlikely that we get a superstar, but if you have 4 guys that are distinctly above average, a few less splashy guys who are also above average, if 4-5 of these rotation guys play defense, we could easily wreak havoc for 3 more seasons. And meanwhile, we are still grooming draft picks.
Of course this is what Parker/RJ/McD/Bonner/RMj/Bogans/Blair/Mahinmi are supposed to be, so I know I’m not saying anything profound here, but only 2 of those guys (Parker and Blair) rate as above league average (by PER rankings). Not that McDyess is a huge liability, but neither is Dalembert or Haywood- two guys that were being shopped. Tonight’s starting 5 and fourth quarter play were flat-out insulting! Why would anybody on this site want to trade Ginobili?! I can’t wait for RJ to snap out of this slump and play at least as well as he did in November and December, for crying out loud.
Maybe we don’t have a LeBron, or a big 5 like LA/Boston/Dallas. But there’s no reason we couldn’t have the best overall roster 1-10, especially when it comes to intangibles… remember the ’04 Pistons, what Golden State did to Dallas in the ’07 playoffs, and Houston did last year (and this year, ftm) after their stars went down, teams like that with a healthy Tim Duncan can be assembled while everyone else is fighting over the superstars.
NotAsGoodAsIonceWas - you are right about the spurs strategy during the last 10 years, and now it’s time to get boatloads of promising guys. To that end, I am counting on Pop and RC to get their Mojo back, although the truth is the Spurs were always better at drafting guys then luring guys or trading for them.
February 20th, 2010 at 2:38 am
Can someone tell me how to find Bruce Bowen’s Twitter site?
February 20th, 2010 at 11:55 am
“Parker, Hill, Ginobili, Hairston, Jefferson, Blair, Bonner, McDyess, Splitter, and Duncan with two minimum salaried players needed to fill out the roster.”
I actually like that team. I’m not worried. We’ll get by.
February 20th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Guys, I love your articles and follow you daily. But, I feel concerned that you’re clinging to that Olé article in which Manu said that he didn’t expect a contract extension. I am from Argentina, and read the actual article, and what he meant was that he did not expect to receive such offer from the FO. The lack of contract security would be a problem for Manu playing for the Arg. N.T. in Worlds, and that’s why they always ask him that question. Keep up the good work guys!
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:53 am
As an ardent follower of Euroleague basketball specifically and European basketball in general, i’d just like to say that you guys have no idea how good you’ll have it with Tiago Splitter. This dude is the real deal. If Tim Duncan can just hold off the cold hands of time for, say, two more seasons and Manu gets Manu re-signed, you’re looking at a pretty bitchin’ team that’s a tad aged but with youth enough to be reminiscent of the Mr. Robinson/Duncan-led 90s Spurs in 2011-12.
Excellent post; keep up the great work.
Cheers,
Os Davis
BallinEurope.com
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