Moving Richard Jefferson: The Spurs best way to utilize him

by

It’s no surprise that Richard Jefferson faces a lot of pressure in his second season on the San Antonio Spurs. In his first, Jefferson came with the weight of a $15 million salary. And while averages of 12.3 points and 4.4 rebounds per game were decent, they did not fulfill the expectations many fans and team personnel had. Even though he’ll be playing at a reduced price in 2010-11, the belief that he should play at a level worthy of a $15 million contract will still be there.

Earlier this summer, our amigo Sebastian Pruiti of Nets Are Scorching and NBA Playbook took a pretty good look at what Richard Jefferson did, and didn’t do, well last year. According to Synergy Sports, in the Spurs’ half court offense Jefferson was most effective scoring the ball off of cuts. He was sixth in the NBA last year with 1.61 points per possession when shooting off of a cut. Unfortunately for Jefferson and the Spurs, RJ only shot off a slash 8% of the time. RJ spent far more time spotting up (33.9%) and missing (just .91 points per possession).

A very large portion of the plays Jefferson scored off a cut were because of penetrate-and-kick plays, double teams on teammates, offensive rebounds and broken plays. But San Antonio had two set plays that they ran in order to free him in the half court and get him on the move.

The first play San Antonio used was an alley-oop play. In the following charts, powered by FastDraw technology, you can see the progression of the play and how the Spurs were able to free Jefferson for the dunk.

The San Antonio Spurs set play to free Richard Jefferson for an alley-oop.
In this first diagram, the point guard brings the ball to the opposite side of the floor that RJ sets up at. The center, who usually in-bounds the ball on the other end of the floor and trails the play, switches places with the power forward, who comes up and sets a pick for the point guard. The point guard rubs off the pick and dribbles away from Jefferson’s side of the floor.
The San Antonio Spurs set play to get Richard Jefferson an alley-oop
After coming off the pick, the point guard passes the ball to the shooting guard on the wing, and then the point guard cuts under the basket and goes all the way to the opposite sideline. The power forward rolls to the opposite block after setting the pick for the point guard, and the center curls from the opposite block to set a screen for the shooting guard who just received the pass. Jefferson slowly moves up near the top of the 3-point line.
The San Antonio Spurs set play to get Richard Jefferson an alley-oop
The shooting guard dribbles off the pick set by the center and comes up to the top of the key. Here, he passes the ball to Jefferson.
The San Antonio Spurs set play to get Richard Jefferson an alley-oop
After passing the ball to Jefferson, the 2-guard ventures back to where he came from and the center rolls slowly back to the block. RJ swings the ball to the wing where the point guard set up.
The San Antonio Spurs set play to get Richard Jefferson an alley-oop

After swinging the ball to the point guard, Richard Jefferson follows the ball and acts like he’s going to set a pick for the point. It’s a believable move, because Spurs players often set immediate picks for the ball handler right after making the pass.

But on this play, RJ fakes setting the pick and curls around a back screen from the power forward. If the player guarding the power forward isn’t paying attention and the guy guarding the center hasn’t returned to help position, there’s an open lane to the basket for a finish at the rim.

Now here’s the play with real people acting it out:

Gotta love that Amare Stoudemire help defense.

The next play is one the Spurs used a couple variations of during the year. Its basic purpose is to free Richard Jefferson as he cuts to the basket, similar to the previous play, but it’s not designed to lead to an alley-oop.
The San Antonio Spurs set play to free Richard Jefferson around the basket.
RJ sets up on one wing with the shooting guard occupying the other. The power forward sets up on the block nearest to Jefferson. The point guard brings the ball up the floor on the side closer to Richard Jefferson and swings the ball to trailing big man on the opposite side.
The San Antonio Spurs set play to free Richard Jefferson around the basket.
The center who just received the pass swings it around the 3-point line to the shooting guard. As this goes on, the power forward on the block turns and sets a screen for Richard Jefferson.
The San Antonio Spurs set play to free Richard Jefferson around the basket.
RJ has two options here. He can go baseline on the screen or go on top of the screen. Going over the screen usually gets him a better look at the basket when he receives the pass, but the defender is usually cheating that way and trying to prevent him that route. Either way he chooses, Jefferson will usually fake one way and go the other. If he’s open, he receives a pass from the shooting guard at or near the rim.

One variation the Spurs executed on this play is having the power forward set the screen higher up the lane. This usually affords Jefferson a little more space to work with when he gets the ball. Instead of immediately going up for the shot, like he would do when he caught it near the basket, Jefferson could catch the ball in the middle of the lane and take a jump shot, throw an up-fake, or curl off the screen and go toward the basket.

In the following play, which came in San Antonio’s first round series against the Dallas Mavericks, the Spurs run a variation of this play. In this instance, instead of the point guard passing the ball to the trailing center and the center swinging it to the two-guard, the center set a down-screen for Manu Ginobili, playing shooting guard, and Ginobili received the ball from the point guard at the top of the 3-point arc. Manu then hit Richard Jefferson with a pass at the rim after Jefferson came off of the Tim Duncan screen. Jefferson sees Dallas’ Caron Butler cheating over the Duncan screen, so RJ goes baseline and beats the Mavs forward for a layup.

Last season, the Spurs played Dallas four times in the regular season and six times in the playoffs. Adding little wrinkles to set plays, like changing where the pass comes from, is important to keep plays effective. The Mavericks saw this play several times in person last year and even more on film. But changing the angle gives the defense a different look than they’re expecting.

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  • ThatBigGuy

    I check this site many times a day, just waiting for articles like this.

    This breakdown is superb. I can see this type of play being called 9 times a game. Let’s say Jeff is open 6 times out of 9, gets the ball 5 times, and converts 3 shots, that’s 6 really easy points. Add 2 jumpers and 2 shots off the dribble/transition, and he’s up to a very efficient 14 ppg. A couple of and-1′s later, and he’s at 16 ppg. If he can average 16 ppg on 50% shooting, what more can we ask from our 4th offensive option?

    Come on Jeff, let’s kick it up a notch this year.

  • Jacques

    Great article. Even though I am worried about his 3-pointers, this would really help if everything goes properly.

  • idahospur

    When I first saw this article, I thought it would be about trading RJ is the Spurs best option. Thanks for putting the videos along with the diagrams, that really helped make more sense.
    If we use RJ in these two plays more often, his confidence will build and will transfer over to better defense and 3-pt shooting.

  • Badger

    Very insightful post! Pretty obvious that Pop’s gotta put a few more slashing RJ plays into the playbook this year.

    I’m just speculating like crazy here, but….
    If TD stays the same or goes down 1-2 ppg, which is probable, and RJ goes up 3 ppg this year, which is clearly possible, and if Blair and Hill also can add 2 ppg each, and with Parker being in a contract year, Splitter becomes the X factor that determines whether he have a serious chance at another championship.

  • doggydogworld

    I like how the first play has all 5 players moving at the same time. I’d like to see a lot less standing around on offense.

    The second play looks more like the Spurs I know – everyone standing. It works because the defense doesn’t expect a move to the basket from the Spurs that early in the shot clock. Surprise plays only work a couple times per game.

  • http://everyspring.wordpress.com/ Jordan

    That second play looks like it’s based out of the flex.

  • Hobson13

    I agree with whats been said so far. One of Jefferson’s problems last year was that his strengths were not fully utilized. I don’t deny that for stretches he looked passive and his confidence waned, but we had certain players on the floor who had a tendency to play as if RJ was invisible.

    RJ excells at these kind of plays around the basket. Although not in him prime, he still has the size, strength, and hops to make these plays. I predict RJ will bounce back with a real solid year. He seemed to be playing a bit better later on in the year and his rebounding tended to improve as the season wore on. I can see him averaging 15/7 per game this upcoming year. Nothing spectacular, but definitely good production coming from the SF position.

    Random thought: Man we sure do have a lot of guys wearing jerseys numbers in the 20′s this year.
    20 – Manu
    21- TD
    22 – Splitter
    23 – Gee
    24 – Jefferson
    25 – Anderson

  • Tyler

    Nice analysis.

    The takeaway: Simplify the game for RJ in the half court. Get him the ball going toward the hoop where he can utilize his athleticism. More curling off the screen, less popping out to the 3pt line and standing around.

    The good thing for the Spurs is that our offense is predicated off ball movement and spacing. Therefore, getting RJ on the move, coming off screens toward the basket fits right in with that philosophy.

    The coaching staff deserve a lot of criticism in how they used RJ last year. However, I think they’ll learn from it and utilize RJ much more effectively this upcoming season.

  • TradeTP

    Why is this coming now? Isnt this the main point I have been trying to make about Pop’s inability to coach?

    Ive said from day one Pop failed because he tries to make RJ a three point shooter and doesnt allow him to penetrate (PARKER), and you said I was ignorant.

    This merely puts my words into visual.

    How this is looked at as some crazy sort of science furthers the point that most people on here cannot determine simple basketball analysis but merely nod their heads in approval of Pop’s genius (laughable)

    Now all we need is a diagram of Blair getting more minutes.

  • TradeTP

    Jordan- Yes, it seems to be the basic give-go option from the flex.

  • Tyler

    @TradeTP

    I don’t think anyone (at least not me) disagreed with you or anyone else who said Pop and the staff didn’t effectively utilize RJ last year. (RJ deserves part of the blame as well I would add)

    What most (me included) disagree with you about is that it was grounds to fire Pop.

  • Tyrone Jenkins

    I think SA needs to seriously consider making RJ the # 1 or 2 option in the offense. TD is getting old and slow as well as Manu and TP is hurt too often.

    The new blood (Blair, Anderson and Hill) are runners and would complement the finishing abilities of RJ. I mean, he averaged over 18 a game everywhere else but in SA – the reason is utilization.

    48mins did a good job showing a couple of plays that have worked in the past, but there needs to be MORE for him. More 1 on 1 clearouts, more transition buckets and more of him, Blair and Splitter on the floor pushing the ball.

  • Jim Henderson

    RJ’s main problem last year was because he didn’t have the proper attitude to make himself a consistent “impact” player. And let me remind you, being an impact player has little to do with whining about a lack of touches on the offensive end. It has to do with making things happen in all facets of the game while on the floor. RJ didn’t do that. His lack of rebounding & lackluster defense had nothing to do with coaching. The fact is, he came into games insufficiently prepared mentally, and simply did not give consistent effort. Granted, the coaching staff should have put him in less spot-up situations, but nobody told RJ not to drive the ball, make hard cuts to the rim, or crash the boards hard either. As a confident player, you simply HAVE to do what makes you effective as a player (and therefore improves your team), regardless of whether it crosses all the “T’s” and dots all the “I’s” of the coaching staffs offensive schemes.

  • TradeTP

    Jim- Again I will agree with you on some aspect of RJs attitude blew. But I PROMISE you he was never talked into a deal where he would just stand around. That is the coach’s fault.

    Again theres no where to cut on a PNR.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    Excellent article. Probably one of the best I’ve read on this site. Using X’s and O’s and then showing the video helps us readers truly get an understanding of the plays, the players and even the team concept.

    The fault for RJ last year lies squarely on the player. Jim nailed it when he mentioned a lack of effort defensively and rebounding. Even RJ himself has to make his voice heard around Pop and communicate what is working and what isn’t.

    I’ve mentioned it before. RJ’s lack of confidence in clutch situations disgusted me. We need players on the court that know what they are doing and how they can contribute best. RJ and the team in general did not have that figured out, obviously.

    I hope RJ ver 2.0 is a confident and aggressive player. One who knows what he can do to help the team and is motivated to do it.

  • annie

    So Parker wants to go to New York I say let him go

    But be careful what you wish for- Desperate Housewives’ ratings continue to fall and ms Longoria had had zero success on the big screen……..

    just something to think about

  • Hobson13

    Tyrone Jenkins
    August 16th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    I agree that RJ needs to be a bigger part of the offense, but he doesn’t have the capabilities to be a #1-2 option on a team that has a snowballs chance at a championship. Even in his prime, he was the 2nd or 3rd option on his New Jersey teams.

    RJ, however, would be a great 3rd – 4th option for us this year. In reality, that’s really all we need. If he can simply learn to pick his spots to be aggressive yet play within the system.

  • TradeTP

    I agree with any of the above that reads anything close to. Trading Tony Parker and Pop has been allowing his love affair with TP to kill the Spurs championship hopes……. Parker is a volume shooter on a team that already has a BIGGER, BETTER, WETTER(3point range) Volume shooter – Manu. And we have a deep group of players that can score efficiently. We need a PG that can play off the ball like Hill did last year when (team killer) we hurt. Thats why we played our best ball then and thats why he needs to leave.

  • ThatBigGuy

    Eva says Tony wants to play in New York.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5692950/tony_parker_wants_to_play_for_new_york.html

    I guess we’ll trade him, and I can only hope that a 3rd team is involved because New York won’t be able to give us equal value back.

  • Tyler

    Did you all read the quote from the Washington Post? A vague, one word answer? Hardly conclusive….

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    I have been harping about TP for a long time. It is obvious that he’s gone after this season. If NY is willing to over pay to have him this season I say “adios”.

    NY has trade assets. Galinari, Douglas, Walker, Randolph or Azubuike would all look great wearing silver & black.

    I would imagine that the deal would have to be Parker for Felton & pieces. If the pieces are right I would be most interested.

    Parker & Boner For Felton, Galinari & Douglas would work for me.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    add Turiaf to the trade chips as well.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    On second thought. I would rather have Randolph or Turiaf instead of Douglas. If NY is willing to do that trade than it’s a steal.

  • Bushka

    Great post. Very very insightful and thought provoking.

    I agree with the main premise. RJ would be more effective run through play sets like this. I think that the playbook and the player though are worlds apart.

    As Jim & Lennezz have pointed out, RJ’s attitude was the biggest contributor to his offensive slow down.

    He was exceptionally passive on the offensive end.

    When you get a play run for you or you get the ball in your hands in any situation with the spurs thats a good shot, the offense demands that you react and either take the shot or improve the likeliehood of a ball going in the bucket by moving it to an open man.

    RJ was very passive in this role. Hence the stuttery pull up jumpers on half hearted drives that really must have p****** Pop off.

    Bonner used to get reamed for passing up open 3′s. It makes sense that if your job is to hit open 3′s you have to put them up when the Defense gives them to you. Otherwise your time on the floor is pointless.

    I think RJ will be a much improved player in the 2nd year. He seems a coachable guy who may just be a little too thoughtful for his own good.

    A solid off season with the Spurs Staff must have some form of positive for the guy.

  • Jim Henderson

    Lenneezz
    August 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    From my post on a recent thread:

    “I’d be okay with Felton, Turiaf or Randolph, and Walker or Azubuike! NY would definitely want to give up Felton & his 7 mil. per year to leave plenty of room to make a hard run at Carmelo Anthony as well, so they might be willing to put some decent sweetners in the deal. I think TP would do great with Amare, Melo, Galinari, etc., in an up-tempo D’antoni system. Should be interesting!”

  • Two Cents

    Great Article. Can’t wait for the season to start.

  • bigtee34

    Id hate to see parker go but I dont want him to “Lebron us”, and i really dont think it’s parkers decision anymore. She makes the decisions now.

  • idahospur

    Being optimistic that Parker remains in SA for a long, successful career, I look at this quote as Eva Longoria trying Hollywood negotiation tactics to make the Spurs’ FO do whatever it takes to re-sign him. I may be a bit young to compare her to Yoko Ono so I’ll allow other readers/posters to carry the weight on that.

  • Easy b

    You can’t read too much into ny press…. They are desperate for any hoopla regarding the betterment of the knicks and can you blame them?
    It’s possible I’m dead wrong, but I envisiage Tony re-signing with spurs and only being traded a year or so post Timmy if/when it is apparent the spurs need to completely rebuild with multiple high draft picks. Maybe I’m reading between different lines to other posters on this site, but to me it seems the spurs rotation is mostly solidified for the next two years, barring injuries or end of roster dissapointments. And that’s not necessarily bad; we have a great collection of proven veterans across all positions and a growing youth movement. I admire the way the franchise is bolstering it’s athletic movement, looking for shooters and scorers and incrementally passing on the responsibility and spurs identity to the next generation. A lucky ping pong bounce in 2 or 3 years and who knows? Maybe we won’t languish outside the contending picture for too long

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    If we can upgrade Boner to Galinari AND add a young shot blocker like Randolph (who would take Dice’s spot next year) I would be more than happy to downgrade Tony to Raymond.

    Imagine a 6’10″ player who shoots the 3 at 40%
    AND can create his own shot
    AND can dribble drive GOOD
    AND can block some shots
    AND isn’t a BONER

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS3i9VD7kMU&feature=related

    (Ignore the 1st minute, it gets good)

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  • bduran

    Great breakdown. The great thing is, I don’t think RJ was that bad a scorer in our system last year. 55.1% TS is okay and he got better as the season wore on. His 3 pt shooting should improve, he was well below career average and even further below the average of his last 3 years. If we can run some more plays for him like the ones above there is no reason he can’t be an efficient scorer for us. I’m cautiously optimistic about him next year.

  • Hobson13

    Lenneezz
    August 17th, 2010 at 1:58 am

    Maybe it’s too early to discuss a Tony to NY trade, but I agree with Jim and think NY is actually a good trading partner with the Spurs since they have numerous young pieces.

    The Knicks would want to clear up as much cap space as possible so we would almost surely have to take back Raymond Felton and his $7mil/year contract. This works out well for us since we need a decent young PG and great for the knicks since they won’t want a high priced backup PG hindering their chances at signing Melo for big money. Felton is a decent young PG with only 5 years of NBA experience instead of Parker’s 9 years so he has plenty of tread on the tires. There’s no question that he is a significant downgrade from Tony, but he is a very nice 3pt shooter plus the Spurs have numerous offensive weapons even without Parker.

    If the Knicks are sure they can get Melo, then I think we have a shot at getting Dan Gallinari which would certainly improve our backup SF delimma. Gallo is a great young player who can stroke the 3 and while it’s possible he could be a mini-Dirk, he will at least be a good starter. He’d be a nice pickup for our future.

    This trade would need one more piece in order to entice the Spurs and get the Knicks even further under the cap for next summer. I don’t see the Knicks giving us Azubuike since he’s their best SG and I’m not sure we would get Turiaf since he’s their starting C. I think we have a decent chance at getting either Anthony Randolph, Bill Walker, or a draft pick.

    Even if we only received Felton, Gallo, and a draft pick I think we would have to look hard at this deal. It would save us money, get us younger, and with Gallo give us the possibility of big upside.

    P.S. I don’t think the Knicks are dumb enough to take Bonner off our hands. Apparently only our FO was dumb enough to sign him for $4mil/year when he’s worth maybe $2mil. The only reason for signing Bonner (that I can think of) is that he has photos of Pop and/or RC. We don’t want that in the NY tabloids.

  • Tyler

    I might be in the minority here, but I don’t really like the proposed NY deal.

    I’m not too high on Felton. For his career, he’s a 41% shooter from the field and a 33% shooter from beyond the arc – not the most efficient and not nearly as efficient as TP. And entering his 6th year, it’s highly unlikely Felton will get much better. At this point, he is what he is. IMO, he’s a decent starter, but definitely not a starter on a contender.

    I like Gallo. Great outside shooter. Offensively, he would fill a big need for this team, but defensively, we’d need to hide him. He would also allow the Spurs a small-ball option at the 4 (which I know most on here would love to see more of). Randolph has tons of potential. Reminds me of a Lamar Odom, although a little more athletic, but probably not the passer. And although he blocks shots, his lack of bulk would make him a liability in regards to 1 on 1 post defense.

    You’d essentially be trading TP for an average starting PG and two good, young prospects. I think the team would take a step back in the short term if this trade went through. And if that’s the case, you’re essentially waiving the white flag on the TD era. And if you’re willing to do that, why not just start the entire rebuilding process right now? Why wait to blow it up?

    Also, with the departure of TP, you’d be asking more of Manu. He’d become your only perimeter creator on the offensive end. And at this point, the goal should be to lessen the burden on Manu during the regular season. Asking more of Manu would undoubtedly increase the risk of injury.

    Longer term (2+ years from now), I think it will come down to Randolph’s development. If he reaches his potential, you might have a perennial All-Star on your hands. Gallo is a good player, but not the type I see becoming more than a 3rd option of a contender. But again, is that worth the final years of the TD era? Not in my opinion.

    And if we are intent on trading TP, I think you’d be better off to wait. Like many on here, I think TP is poised for a great year. I think you can swing a few more assets when he’s putting up All-Star #’s.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    Hobson,
    I know all this. I was the one calling for the TP trade 6 weeks ago. I’ve wanted Danilo since I first heard the Tony rumor. You basically just expanded on what I already wrote, but it’s cool.

    I think NY might want Boner if they give up Danilo. If they don’t want him than they don’t have to take him. Amazingly, Boner did garner interest from some other clubs, including Chicago. He would be worth something in trade even if D’Antoni wouldn’t touch him with a pole.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    “you’re essentially waiving the white flag on the TD era.”

    Absolutely untrue. You are in essence trading a ONE YEAR RENTAL OF TONY – minus Felton for two great prospects. Is the difference between Tony and Felton so great as to pass up 2 amazing prospects? And it’s not like these guys can’t contribute from day one. They both have some proven results.

    “you’d be asking more of Manu. He’d become your only perimeter creator on the offensive end”

    Danilo is a creator from the perimeter. Unlike Boner or RJ, Danilo can break down his man. He can create his own shot or get past him and start the defensive rotations. Add Randolph to Splitter and our front line defense gets even better. Haven’t some posters been crying for some shot blocking? Well, Randolph and his 1.5 BPG + Danilo and his .7 BPG help address that problem.

    “Offensively, he would fill a big need for this team, but defensively, we’d need to hide him”

    More than we have to hide Blair because of his lack of height? Danilo is not going to make any all defensive teams. HOWEVER, he is 6’10″ with quick feet. He has some tools that a coach can work with. Think of it this way, is he worse than Boner? Not hardly.

    “But again, is that worth the final years of the TD era? Not in my opinion.”

    Year not years. Singular not plural. One year.

    “I think you can swing a few more assets when he’s putting up All-Star #’s.”

    During Pop’s tenure, when have the Spurs EVER made a meaningful trade mid season? If you can name one, I will concede this point.

  • Tyler

    Lenneezz –

    It feels like you’re operating under the assumption that the Spurs have no chance in resigning TP, which I think is not true. There really is no more than speculation to support that stance. A few vague articles from sources in NY don’t hold much water in my opinion. It says something that almost all the speculation comes from NY sources.

    And if that trade does go down, I think we are a weaker team as a result next year. In TP we have one of the best at breaking down a defense, a must-have in today’s game. Gallo and Felton can’t replace that. I think it would be a mistake to have to rely on both these guys to produce at the most crucial points. Did anyone see what Jameer Nelson did to Felton in the playoffs? That’s not what we want.

    I agree that Randolph and Gallo are nice prospects. But that’s exactly what they are – prospects whose best days are years away. They might end up being really good players. But again, I think you are forgoing a shot at a title this year (whether that chance is 20% or 5%) for potential down the road that has no guarantee of putting us in a better position to win a title then.

    I’m all for improving the team, and by no means am I unwilling to trade Tony. I just think that if we are to trade TP, it has to help us in both the short and long term. This trade, while it presents a decent case for the long term, doesn’t in my opinion make us better in the next 2 years, and as I’ve stated, hurts us.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    Tyler -

    Very solid rebuttal, I see I have a worthy debate partner.

    “A few vague articles from sources in NY don’t hold much water in my opinion. It says something that almost all the speculation comes from NY sources.”

    Where else would they come from? I am fairly certain that if any San Antonio sports reporter wrote a story regarding Tony leaving than he would be blackballed. That is how RC works. The Spurs are a private bunch. Any leakage of trade talks is going to come from NY. Discounting reports of a potential trade or trade talks because it comes from a NY paper is a bit naive.

    “It feels like you’re operating under the assumption that the Spurs have no chance in resigning TP”

    No, I am fairly sure that they DO have a chance. I just think it comes at far too steep of a price. Manu makes $13 Mil per year. Tony won’t take less than that. You can mark that done. Tony will not make less than Manu. You will call it an assumption, I call it a fact. He will ask for a MINIMUM of 4 years but probably five. That equates to a probable scenario of 4yr/$60Mil or even 5yr/$70-75Mil. I have previously posted the reasons I think that is a foolish and a almost franchise stagnating contract. Basically, I think Tony will not age gracefully and his skill set is too limited to pay that kind of money.

    What would fans rather have? A 5% chance at winning a championship the next 2 years and then AT LEAST 10 years of losing, but more than likely it will be much longer. Look at the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons of the 80′s, Bulls and Rockets of the 90′s. These are examples of what to expect from a championship franchise after it’s over.

    OR

    Have a team that gives every effort to accumulate young talent; Blair, Hill, Splitter, Anderson, Randolph & Galinari. Think about that team, not bad. Depends how everybody develops but that is a team that can take over after the Big 3. The Spurs have made a nice start to transitioning, now it’s time to make a hard decision and go to the next level.

    I would much rather have a really good team in 4 years and no chance at a championship the next two.

    P.S. I don’t think trading Tony gives the Spurs no chance.

  • TradeTP

    NY note-

    Could we really trade tony to NY? If melo goes wouldnt we all assume that CP goes too? If that is the case why would you ever want Tony instead of Paul?

    Second: Is Melo moving, not to NYC, to NO?

    Trades:

    1.Belinelli and Peja for Melo? Denver gets 1 year players and Melo gets hooked up with CP?

    2. What does Denver want from NY besides Amare for Melo?

    Thoughts?

  • Jim Henderson

    Hobson13
    August 17th, 2010 at 6:33 am

    “If the Knicks are sure they can get Melo, then I think we have a shot at getting Dan Gallinari which would certainly improve our backup SF delimma. Gallo is a great young player who can stroke the 3 and while it’s possible he could be a mini-Dirk, he will at least be a good starter. He’d be a nice pickup for our future.”

    I agree. Gallo’s a very unique player. I do think a Melo signing would improve our chances of getting him. Otherwise, I think it would be pretty difficult to pry him away from NY.

    “I don’t see the Knicks giving us Azubuike since he’s their best SG and I’m not sure we would get Turiaf since he’s their starting C. I think we have a decent chance at getting either Anthony Randolph, Bill Walker, or a draft pick.”

    You could be right, but consider a couple of factors. One, the Knicks will have to be very cap-conscious if trying to pair Amare, Melo, & TP. Thus, resigning a guy like Azubuike could be more costly than they’re willing to go at SG when they have a young talent like Walker (I think he may be good enough to start with that group) under contract for another season for less than a million. Also, they have the center from Europe, Mozgov, under contract. It may depend on how good he turns out this year as to whether they want to try and re-sign Turiaf, and they may want to try and keep Randolph instead, because he’s young & talented, and can fill in at multiple positions. I think some combination of the following guys could be in play to allow the Knicks to sign TP & Melo: Gallo, Randolph, Felton, Walker, Azubuike, & Turiaf.

    “Even if we only received Felton, Gallo, and a draft pick I think we would have to look hard at this deal.”

    I agree.

    “P.S. I don’t think the Knicks are dumb enough to take Bonner off our hands. Apparently only our FO was dumb enough to sign him for $4mil/year when he’s worth maybe $2mil.”

    Agreed.

    Tyler
    August 17th, 2010 at 7:42 am

    “At this point, he is what he is. IMO, he’s a decent starter, but definitely not a starter on a contender.”

    I think he’s just good enough to start on a contender. If we surround him with the right talent, and have a fairly deep rotation, he could work out.

    “I think the team would take a step back in the short term if this trade went through. And if that’s the case, you’re essentially waiving the white flag on the TD era.”

    You don’t seem to understand. We’re not going to win in the TD era by essentially sticking with the status quo. Ride TP, Manu, & TD into the ground if you want. We’re not winning another championship with those three, without pulling a Gasol type of deal within the next 1-2 years. Good luck with that.

    “Also, with the departure of TP, you’d be asking more of Manu. He’d become your only perimeter creator on the offensive end.”

    That’s not necessarily true. Felton is a good creator, and I’m sure we all expect Hill to improve some in this regard as well. Even Gallo is a better creator on the perimeter than any of our SF/swing players.

    “But again, is that worth the final years of the TD era? Not in my opinion.”

    What are you expecting during the final years of the TD era, as currently constructed? Certainly not a championship?!

    “I think you can swing a few more assets when he’s putting up All-Star #’s.”

    I don’t know if anyone was referring to trading him now, this close to going into camp. Either at the trade deadline, or more likely next off-season, would probably make more sense at this point. Even next summer, it’s in TP’s best interest to swing a sign & trade deal. If the Knicks want him, they’re going to have to give up some assets. Look what NY got for the David Lee sign & trade.

    Lenneezz
    August 17th, 2010 at 9:04 am

    “He would be worth something in trade even if D’Antoni wouldn’t touch him with a pole.”

    Bonner’s salary pretty much kills his value in most trade options, particularly with a cap-conscious NY team looking to sign Melo as well. If anything, we might have to put one of our young guards/SF’s into the deal.

  • TradeTP

    Actually Blairs Opp PER is 19 either way you slice it 4/5. And Blair is better offensively at the C.

    When Bonner plays a C his opponents PER is 33+ hahahaha, thats worth the one three he makes a game!!!!

  • bduran

    TradeTp,

    “When Bonner plays a C his opponents PER is 33+ hahahaha, thats worth the one three he makes a game!!!!”

    He is certainly killing us during the 0% of minutes he gets at center. Is that a good sample size?

  • Bushka

    Anyone thats been following this forum knows that I’m usually TP’s Staunchest supporter.

    Still if you throw Gallinari into a trade mix and can get Randolph & Felton for me i’m all over it.

    I think Gallinari would be wonderful as a spur and let us play a great forward slot rotation, and play Bonner the right amount of minutes (like 7 -10 per).

    He’d only get better defensively. It’s not like Dejauns great on D yet either. In point of fact it’s the area alongside his jumpshot that could really stand to see some help.

  • b-mad

    Let me qualify my remarks by saying I’m not the Spurs G.M. nor am I the head coach, however we needed scorer and, although that’s what RJ is, he’s more of a slasher and finisher at the rim. Unfortunately, our team does not suit that style, we simply do not have a Kidd or Nash to execute precise lob passes. I’m 100 % sure R.C. and Pop will do what’s best for the team, whether that’s trading TP and picking up CP3 or not. Assumeing our current roster remains in-tact, I propose this; instead of starting Tony, maybe start George. TP and RJ are both slashers. Most teams know this and play zone defense against us to counter, so it’s only reasonable to assume the less you have of one, the less of another. George is youger, and thus more likely to become a precision passer, with proper instruction. With Gary Neal’s apparent shooting ability he could be a zone buster, not to mention Manu, Anderson, and Gee. The point is the the Spurs are still the Spurs and will be for the foreseeable future. EVERYONE NEEDS TO QUIT LOOSEING THEIR MINDS. We did make the playtoffs.

  • TradeTP

    Bduran – really. 0 minutes. Hmmmmm. Sorry buddy watch a game and who he plays defense on…

  • bduran

    TradeTP,

    “Bduran – really. 0 minutes”

    Well, I actually said 0%. So rounding to the nearest integer he could have played as many as 19 minutes at Center :)

    I was assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that you were getting your opponents PER from 82games.com. According to 82games.com when he was at center our opponents center had a PER of 33.9. However, 82games.com also says he accounted for 0% of our minutes at center. I would consider him playing more at center on defense, but 82games.com is allocating those minutes at PF, so it’s hard to say what the PER is of the person he’s guarding.

    Let me know if I’m wrong about where you got your data.

  • http://www.facebook.com lester

    trade tp 2 cp ryt now not rf

  • http://www.facebook.com lester

    trade TP 2 CP not 2 felton ryt now

  • http://www.facebook.com lester

    TD and Gallanari great team up with azuibuke and randolf