Wednesday, March 17th, 2010...6:24 am
San Antonio Spurs 88, Miami Heat 76
Don’t look now, but the San Antonio Spurs have suddenly won eight of their last nine games. The Spurs’ margin of victory over that span is 10.5. Is it possible that San Antonio’s embarrassing March 8 loss to a wounded Cavaliers squad will rise from our memories-dragging one leg behind itself, and half-falling forward-as the San Antonio Spurs’ don’t-poke-the-zombie moment of 2010?
That, or a steady diet of games against the Clippers, Wolves, Knicks and a lazy looking Heat team have made the Spurs look better than they actually are. The Spurs have the most difficult schedule in the league over the final stretch. We’ll know soon know whether the Spurs are really coming on, or if they’re simply putting us on.
Last night’s victory over the Heat featured two emerging story lines. The game itself was a yawner-Miami never led.
The first story to follow is that, not counting a couple minutes of garbage time, Gregg Popovich ran a tight eight-man rotation, despite having leads of over twenty points at several points during the contest. Popovich has settled the Spurs into something resembling a playoff-ready rotation, giving the team a boost and setting the stage for Manu Ginobili. But Ginobili aside, the entire Spurs team has responded well to better defined roles.
Manu Ginobili is climbing the player efficiency rating chart, and few players in the NBA have performed at a higher level in recent weeks. Prior to yesterday’s game, LJ Ellis summed up Ginobili’s play:
Since the beginning of February, Manu Ginobili has once again become a force. In February, he averaged 18.5 points, 4.7 assists and 4.5 rebounds while shooting 45.1% from the field and 35.8% on three-pointers. March has seen him play even better: 18.9 points, 6.0 assists, 4.0 rebounds on 54% shooting and 47.2% on threes.
And as insightful as those Ginobili numbers are, they barely tell the story. Manu Ginobili is making everyone better, most noticeably the previously pronounced dead on arrival Richard Jefferson. Jefferson is openly campaigning for heavy minutes alongside Manu Ginobili. It’s almost as if Gregg Popovich turned to Manu and said, “I can’t figure this guy out. Can you fix him for me?” And then Ginobili grabbed Jefferson by the hand, walked into a nearby phone booth, and emerged in Superman garb. Jefferson can be seen just behind Ginobili, with a fistful of cape.
Problem solved.
It’s a cliche observation, but Manu Ginobili provides the Spurs with a set of skills-intangibles-that are impossible to quantify. Or, so I think. When a definitive clutch stat is released we’ll learn that Manu Ginobili is all-world, I’m sure.
Take last night’s clutch performance during the Spurs-Heat game. Wait, I know what you’re thinking, “How can a game that was never close provide evidence of clutch?”
Late in the game Miami went on 22-2 run which had the Spurs threatening collapse. Ginobili’s response?
- 7:58, Manu Ginobili makes 25 foot three pointer
- 6:41, Manu Ginobili makes 25 foot three pointer
- 5:20, Manu Ginobili defensive rebound (a big deal when slowing a run)
- 4:56, Tim Duncan makes 1o foot basket (Manu Ginobili assists)
At this point, the Spurs have ended Miami’s comeback attempt, and mostly on the back of Ginobili. Is that clutch?And the play-by-play doesn’t show it, but I would have sworn Manu Ginobili drew a charge on Wade during the same stretch of play.
Miami had set the San Antonio Spurs’ house on fire transforming Ginobili into a one man fire crew-he casually rescued all the women and children as his teammates shrieked in horror from the upper story windows. He’s cool like that. Ginobili’s current tear, the one that began in early February, is punctuated by one performance after another of such “clutch” efforts.
George Hill and Richard Jefferson each had strong outings against the Heat-Hill is playing the best ball of his career since about the same time Ginobili began his late season tear; Jefferson is playing his best ball as a member of the Spurs since he and Ginobili became partners in the starting lineup.
Hill and Jefferson played a game high 41 and 39 minutes, respectively. The trio of Hill (+23), Jefferson (+15), and Ginobili (+13), led the Spurs in plus/minus.
But it’s all on Ginobili. He’s special.
66 Comments
March 17th, 2010 at 6:36 am
Not only is Ginobili being clutch, he’s TAKING OVER and ripping a new one into anyone who misses their defensive assignments and positions. He is the LEADER on the floor…
March 17th, 2010 at 6:52 am
One game, but Hill looked so much better than Chambliss.
March 17th, 2010 at 6:57 am
Good win last night…although another team that doesnt scare anyone, they have beat the teams they need to in convincing fashion.
Tonight will be a great way to redeem themselves from the Cavs loss. My gut still tells me that spurs lose, but my mind thinks they can pull it out.
We will see….7pm CST on ESPN
March 17th, 2010 at 7:01 am
EVERYTHING changes when Manu is on the floor (for the better) AND when he’s on the bench (for the worse). The moment he steps off the floor you can viscerally feel the other team start to build momentum. The moment he steps back on, the wind goes out of their sails. That first three from way beyond the arc with the shot clock running out was a dagger to the heart. You could feel the air go out of the building and the Heat. And, yes, you are right, right after that he took a charge from Wade. Shortly before that, he had stripped Wade on a drive to the basket, knocking the ball downward and off of Wade’s knee out of bounds. And then the coup de grace: the second three. Turn out the lights, the party’s over. This guy is so damn special. Not many like him come along …. ever. We are privileged to be seeing him play … for our team.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:06 am
Best defensive showing of the year. Our rotations were good and we dominated the glass.
On offense, the ball movement was great. The ball was swung from side to side, it was crisp, and guys were looking to make the extra pass. When we move the ball like that, it keeps the defense scrambling and opens up driving lanes for everyone.
Tonight should be a good barometer on where we stand. We’re going to have to key in on Orlando’s 3pt shooting. If we can do that and still rebound all the long misses, we should be in good shape.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:11 am
How can you not love Manu. After he hit that first three and forced the Heat to call a time out did you see the look in his face. He was basically like, “enough.”
I was able to watch this game and while I don’t have the NBA package there were a few observations I’d like to share:
- During the Heat run, Manu got in George Hill’s face and berated him for something (I’m not sure what, to be honest) but then gave him a good tap on the head as if to imply, ” You’re better than that, let’s do this.”
- During a time out, with the Spurs up 20-something, you could see Roger Mason teaching Blair about something. Despite Mason’s lack of playing time, request for a trade, and miserable performances, it’s great to see him still involved and a great testament to the Spurs’ unique culture and professionalism.
- RJ’s aggressiveness is helping in a number of ways. Although he didn’t get credit for some of the rebounds, there were two or three where he prevented the Heat from grabbing offensive boards by tipping them to teammates. His movement towards the basket has also an encouraging sign.
- I’ve only watched the Spurs games on national television, but it seemed like they were communicating a lot more last night. Go Spurs.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:17 am
e is back for good. Tonight is game is testimony to that. Never say NO to to him, because that’s when you will unleashed the beast in him. And that’s when it’s going tougher for anyone who plays against him.
Now the only thing is left is for the Spurs front office to give him an extension. The idea of seeing Manu in another jersey, is a proposition that I hate the most. I’ve said it before and I will said it gain, he destined to be a Spurs and he must be a Spurs for many years to come.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:17 am
Yes, we are playing way better already but we nearly blew a 26 point lead yesterday and committed lots of really stupid turnovers in the second half. Nevertheless our defense has stepped up in the past few weeks and that’s the best thing we could wish for.
Now I am wondering: Could it be possible that we are playing better without TP?! Our defense sure is better, our offense maybe not, but that’s not what we need anyway!
btw…Ginobili is BACK for real!!!! He is so energetic, active , just everything, what a great thing to see!! RJ’s role as a rebounder is great too, he’s been playing way better since Pop told him to crash the boards more often. Is RMJ giving up? He played only 6 minutes yesterday and went -14 !!!
March 17th, 2010 at 7:21 am
Heads up for UK-based fans going blind from following the Spurs online via constantly refreshing box-scores and slow, late, skippy feeds: the Orlando Game is on real TV tonight! (Well, ESPN UK, if you have that.) Wince as Pop gets questioned between quarters! Try to work out where Bonner’s + stats come from! And of course… See Manu do what Manu does! Jolly good…
March 17th, 2010 at 7:39 am
Parker who?
March 17th, 2010 at 7:49 am
It kinda sucks that some of our nationally televised games that we have left (like today’s game) is on the second night of a back to back. The Spurs’ age doesn’t help and the critics (especially ESPN’s critics who hate the Spurs. See: Hollinger, John and Adande, J.A) will be ready to bash them.
Having said that, I feel good about this team. As someone mentioned above, RJ might have found his role as a rebounder. If he can’t score, be electrifying, or pass…he might as well rebound and he’s doing a good job. Hill is good, really good. Manu and Tim are GREAT. I just can’t see the Spurs getting far without Parker though. He plays awesome with Timmy and makes him better. Notice Tim’s “slump”? It’s been happening since Parker left. We NEED Parker back.
Imagine Parker, Duncan + 3 other dudes with Hill, Jefferson, and Manu off the bench? We’ve tried it before and it may not have worked, but we definitely didn’t have THIS Manu or THIS RJ. I believe that a healthy Parker plus the awesomeness of this group can lead us to #5.
GO SPURS GO!!!
March 17th, 2010 at 7:55 am
1. Was the rotation shortened by the back to back?
2. Was the rotation shortened because Pop thought it might be a blowout and the end of the bench guys would play a ton of minutes to close the game?
3. Tonight could be a real test, or a beyond perfect opportunity to rest Duncan and/or Manu.
4. Manu did draw a charge on Wade.
5. Everyone thinks it goes one way, but could Hill be making Manu better?
6. What are the chances if Tony shows up for the playoffs he would take or be given a bench role to continue this momentum (assuming it is a momentum)?
7. Manu is the clear leader of the Argentine team. Maybe he was never comfortable enough with his English or with Duncan as the true leader to do it, but it has been amazing to watch him take command recently. I’d love for someone to ask him about the English-Spanish/vocal leadership thing.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:59 am
Maybe instead of Duncan as the true leader, I mean Duncan setting a more muted, positive reinforcement, foul my lead type leadership role.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:03 am
I dont know but I have the feeling that Manu decide not to come back next year . That’s why he put everything he have on the game cause he know that this the last season as a spurs .
March 17th, 2010 at 8:05 am
follow….not foul my lead…..ughh
March 17th, 2010 at 8:14 am
I think that after tonigts game we will know if tony parker should start coming off the bench with the second unit. He can (could) drive the lanes much better when he is with the other teams second unit forcing the other teams to make adjustments. Tony can also be a playmaker someimes.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:28 am
How does the rotation get sorted out when Tony returns? Since Manu and Jefferson must play together, do they both go back to the bench, both start, or does Manu return to the bench alone?
How can we settle on a starting lineup when missing our most recent Finals MVP?
March 17th, 2010 at 8:30 am
Agutierrez said it best -
Guys like Ginobli dont come arount that often.
Contrary to popular belief - Manu is the most decorated basketball player ever.
2001 - Lega A (Italy) MVP
2001 - Euroleague Final Four MVP
2001 - FIBA Americas Championship MVP
2002 - All-Euroleague First Team
2002 - Italian Cup MVP
2002 - Lega A MVP
2002 - FIBA World Championship All- Tournament Team
2003-03 NBA Champion
2002–03 - NBA All-Rookie Second Team
Olimpia de Oro
(2003, 2004 (shared))
2004–05 - NBA All-Star
2004-05 NBA Champion
2006 - FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team
2006-07 NBA Champion
2007–08 - NBA 6th Man of the Year
2007–08 - All-NBA Third Team
2008 - 35 Greatest Euroleague Players
Manu also lead the Argentinian National team to an Olympic Gold and Bronze medals.
Many of you act surprised that this is how he plays; we have grown accustomed to his greatness. We need to take a step back occasionally to see the big picture, not just the NBA.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:30 am
The one question that I don’t want to ask: Can Manu keep this up for this many minutes and avoid the injury bug through the playoffs?
March 17th, 2010 at 8:44 am
How special will Manu be in 3 years, when he’s 35 years old and making $12MM+, while playing 18 MPG for 55 games because his body has broken down?
March 17th, 2010 at 8:44 am
I’m intrigued by the idea of playing Hill, Manu and Jefferson all off the bench, but I’m also baffled by it. How would it work?
Duncan, Parker and (insert three players) starting the game sounds like a recipe for disaster. Who plays with that duo? McDyess or Bonner at C? RMJ/Bogans? RMJ/Hairston? Bogans/Hairston? I’m actually getting hives just thinking about it.
I like the idea of Blair, Manu, Hill and Jefferson coming off the bench because they’d out-perform any other bench you could think of, but the starters would most assuredly suffer for it.
However, the simple fact is that the newer players we have play better with Manu on the court. Blair isn’t playing as well now that Manu is a starter, and Jefferson and Hill are playing better-than-ever. This is not a coincidence. I think figuring out how to keep that threesome playing as much as possible with Manu is the key to the Spurs’ success, but for the life of me I can’t figure out a great way to do it. I’m glad I’m not Pop.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:46 am
@One Wing…why ask that? Just let him play and see how the cards fall.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:55 am
Let the Parker off the bench Campaign begin!!!!
Parker works best w/spot up shooters like Bonner and Mason and has never had a problem generating his own offense. This would make the Spurs a dangerous team.
The only way Parker redeems his season in my eyes is not only happily coming off the bench but by proactively making statments that he should and wants to come off the bench.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:06 am
Don’t get your hopes to high for tonight in Orlando. Under the best of circumstances, a team has less than a 50% chance of beating a high seeded playoff contender in their own house. Add to that the fact that this is the second game of back to back games on the road and there is maybe a 20% chance of winning. Throw in Parker’s injury and there is maybe a 10% chance of winning.
Having said that, if they win in Orlando, notice will have been given to the whole NBA that you don’t want to play the Spurs in the playoffs this year regardless of where you are seeded.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Whatever is decided on the rotation with Parker, all I know is with this much momentum, don’t change things. Parker is a Spur and knows that winning comes first. He can be the awesome bench player that Manu was and Manu can start.
It was mentioned some time ago that Kobe said the Spurs are predictable. Manu makes the team unpredictable.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Rough crowd lately in reference to our French PG. Our backbone for the past few years.
I would go into how this kid has held this team up year after year, or how flat out good he is, or how valuable he is, etc…
But, there is no need. Yes, we have guys that should be either comming off the bench or glued to it, but TP is not one of them.
As for players that say that they dont play well with TP…Spoken like a true scrub!
TP didnt have any problem playing with them. Neither did Duncan, or Ginnobli.
Why…Because they are players. Effective Players play well because they are good players. Scrubs make excuses and need stats, charts, and graphs to prove any value.
Im just hoping that these ridiculous requests and rumors dont sour TP toward the Spurs. This kid has given heart, body, and soul to this franchise.
He deserves a little more respect.
As for improving this ragged roster..
Other than Ginnobli, Mcdyess, Duncan, Parker, Hill, Hairston and Blair, Spurs could dump the entire roster and be no worse off.
Would this coach and FO consider keeping that core together and bringing in a proper supporting cast? Highly Doubtful…
However, one more bad decision, or series of bad decisions, especially in reference to personnel, we become New Jersey.
After witnessing the Miami Heat’s horrible attendance last night, I shudder at the thought of that happening here in Spur Nation.
Getting back to the latest crap on TP…
Tony gets injured.
After wins against struggling clubs , and a win against a Miami Heat team that didnt even bother to show up until the end of the 3rd quarter, we decide that TP is no longer a starter? TP hurts our team defensively? TP hinders teamamates from being all they can be?
Who are these people?
Based on the value that Tony Parker has brought to this franchise, the awsome professionalism that he has demonstrated year after year, and the heart, guts and determination that he has shown here in the Spur Nation,
If this team even hints to TP that they are unhappy with his play (while playing Bonner and Bogans every night)
He should LEAVE IMMEDIATELY!
For apparently, they have lost touch with basketball reality.
Unfortunately, Im sure that he has heard about these rumors already.
Hope TP takes it all with a grain of salt…
Also,
Hope we dont sink!
March 17th, 2010 at 9:21 am
i honestly think playing with parker won’t be much of a disruption to our current chemistry. he is a score first player and also a decent facilitator. i would argue getting acclimated to manu is much more difficult than tony.
tony will have his starting position back alongside tim duncan, antonio mcdyess, keith bogans, and george hill. our first unit will be a tim and tony pick and role threat with hill and bogans perimeter shooting and 3′s and mcdyess jumper, rebounding presence.
manu, rj, blair, bonner, hill will be our second, and quite possibly, the most dangerous second unit in the NBA. blair is indeed struggling without ginobili, but this will change once manu returns to the bench. our best chance to beat anyone in the playoffs may be this unrelenting onslaught of a bench.
funny how this team was tim’s all those years, tony’s last year, and manu’s this year. what an amazing trio. we should enjoy it while we can.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:29 am
@One Wing
Sure he can there are no back to back games in the playoffs…and this is what Manu do he is the best spurs player right now and he knows it like he always says its all about confidence and now he has it back we will be a force…also Tony needs to come off the bench b/c he can score for our second unit which includes mostly set shooters in which he can drive and kick it to…Manu is a playmaker.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:43 am
Yes we’ve had a run of average or worse opponents but looking around the conference I can’t help but note that the “top” teams seem a bit worn down as they’re just edging inferior teams while the Spurs are blasting them. I would also add that a road game vs a team like Miami would’ve been a loss earlier this season, as the Spurs have lost a number of games to teams that were not better (see: 0-3 vs Portland, 0-2 vs Chicago, 0-4 vs Utah, 1-2 vs Houston) due to their own mistakes.
Amazing how not making errors on defense or commiting unforced turnovers allows this team to win, even without Parker.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:55 am
I actually agree with Tom in California’s assessment of our chances of winning. Accuscore simulations (can be seen in the espn.com game preivew) generally back that up.
Orlando is a team that the Spurs that we have seen all season should lose to. But you play the game for a reason, ya know?
The Spurs have gone on a nice run lately against sub-par competition, but don’t underestimate the value of confidence, either. Sometimes a nice little run like that is what you need to light the fires.
All of us want to see the Spurs win tonight, but more than that, we want the Spurs to play like the playoff team that we hope they are shaping up to be. If we come out and play the Magic tough and set ourselves up to be in a position to win against a top team on their home floor, it validates what we have been seeing against the weaker opponents.
I’m never a fan of moral victories, and a loss tonight would be a loss. But what I want to see is that validation that yes, this team is shaping up and that they can carry that confidence into elite competition.
Win or lose, tonight isn’t about our record at the end of the season - its about if these Spurs can weather the storm of the toughest finishing stretch in the league to be a legitimate playoff threat.
March 17th, 2010 at 9:56 am
My comments aren’t meant as any disrespect for Tony. I just think he should take his turn at “being Manu” if this lineup rolls into the playoffs without him. It would be for the sake of a consistent starting lineup for once this season.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:12 am
@rj
I like the way you think. The only part of your comment that gave me pause was the prospect of having Bonner/Blair on the court at the same time. Neither of those guys are incredibly stout defensively.
Still, I think keeping Manu and Jefferson together is essential, and I’m really uncomfortable with calls for Parker to go to the bench. The Parker/Hill/Bogans/Duncan/McDyess lineup is probably the best way to do it. Just bring 4 guys off the bench.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:16 am
I don’t really understand the idea of bringing TP off the bench. As a player, you’re thrusting him into a role he’s never filled in his career. For some guys, at least mentally, that takes awhile to get used to. Manu handled it as well as anyone, but that doesn’t mean TP would do the same. Some guys like to come off the bech b/c they’re able to guage the other team (ex. Jason Terry who like coming off the bech better than starting).
If the argument is that we want to finalize our rotation, bringing TP off the bench flies in the face of that. You’re essentially changing your rotation yet again and this time, to something totally unknown.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Mason Jr. should never play. -14 which represents the time when pop thought he could relax a little and have Mason Jr. in the game. He only works well when you have someone else that makes him the 3rd or 4th option. If he’s one of the main ones and is handling the ball, you will always loose a lead. no surprise that Miami gained momentum in that run when RMJ was in.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:31 am
@ Mike3
Bonner and Blair show us one of our top 2 man court units in terms of +/-. They have a lot of minutes together too so I don’t think it’s a fluke. A lot of their strengths compensate for the other’s weaknesses.
@ Tyler
Our starting lineup is destroying people right now. I want TP back as badly as anyone, but right now our starting 5 is a steamroller. Our bench needs help though. The only reason they looked incredible against the Clippers was because the Clippers suck and our starting lineup kicked so much ass the bench got a ton of minutes. Tony is an immediate and amazingly huge boost to our bench. It’s not about finalizing the rotation as much as sticking with what is finally working.
If Tony is a real baller like we know he is, it doesn’t matter if he starts or not. He’ll finish and be a superstar. That is what superstars do. I don’t think Tony is as mentally fragile or as much of an egomaniac as people tend to think.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:44 am
Just a thought to share.
We know the NBA is a business. We know that even though we get accustomed to following and supporting our favorite players, buying thier jerseys, and talking
%#$@ at the water coller at work, they could be gone with a moments notice.
Of course this rings true for Tony as well. He would be a valuable trade piece and could easily net the Spurs more than one good player in return.
However, If you have been watching and supporting this team over the years as I have, you had to notice the intangiables.
What is so admirable about Ginnobli, Parker, and Duncan is thier heart. No matter how bad a team is beating them, how many points they are down, or how bad of a night they are having, they keep comming.
They never back down, never quit, and constantly give as good as they get. Cant teach that.
Of all of the best combinations of players on teams around the leauge, our big 3 are the best group.
Kobe, Gasol, Artest
KG, Allen, Pierce
Carmello, Billups, Nene
Our Big 3 are collectively better.
I am concerned for Tony though. George Hill is playing like he belongs. Pop is making comments like, “He is like Avery”, or “I gave him the clipboard during the game”, or “He is the most improved player ever”…..
Just barely reading into to it suggests that Pop is leaning in thst direction. I remember when Tony started to impress, Pop brought Avery back for one last season and paid him good money.
The following season, Avery was gone and Pop handed the reins to Parker.
Hope history isnt repeating itself. I say that because Im wondering how the Spurs would replace Parkers production, heart, and will to win.
I think that George Hill is the 4th best player on this team, but I think he needs another year of seasoning.
I am anxious to see how he fares against players like Billups, JR Smith, Ray Allen, Russel Westbrook, Darren Williams, or Brandon Roy in the playoffs, in a playoff atmosphere.
Even as I post about Hill and parker, I still feel that our problems are not in our back court.
When we run Bonner and Blair out on the floor, they are just not really BIGS. Bonner is more of a 6-10 2 guard and Blair is a 4. He is simply not big enough to play the 5, though he is a beast of an athlete.
If Duncan or Mcdyess get hurt or get into foul trouble, our problems increase ten fold.
With Mahinmi being deemed as worthless by this coach…We just dont have anyone else….
March 17th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Certain players skill sets match better than with others.
Manu is great at creating chaos within a defense and then finding players moving without the ball.
Tony is great at drawing the defense in and then kicking out to spot up shooters.
If players like Jefferson, Blair and Hill are starting then they need the most minutes with Manu as possible.
If players like Bonner, Bogans, Mason and Mcdyess are starting than that would make the best case for Parker to start.
Duncan obviously plays well along either or both Manu and Parker.
If team plays well as is over the next couple of months it would be ridiculous to not realize this and to have the team play to it’s strengths.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:04 am
BlasE -
I understand what you’re saying. But before we jump to the conclusion that TP should come off the bench, I’d like to see how these starters play against better competition. If we continue to play well, even against better teams, then I would seriously consider it. But right now, I just think it’s a little premature.
Ballhog -
It’s only minor, but TP never played with Avery. Speedy Claxton started the first few games before Pop inserted TP into the starting lineup in 01-02. (thinking about that makes me feel old btw.)
March 17th, 2010 at 11:17 am
It’s a pity that Manu can’t stay healthy. Because when he is, he is the best shooting guard in the NBA per minute, and one of the best all time as well.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:20 am
Correction - Antonio Daniels, not Speedy.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:26 am
Tyler, my original comment was:
“What are the chances if Tony shows up for the playoffs he would take or be given a bench role to continue this momentum (assuming it is a momentum)?”
I know it is premature because we could have a different starting lineup tomorrow. My comment was assuming we play well against the other good teams, you know, hypothetical.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:38 am
@Tyler: I hate to correct a correction, but Speedy wasn’t in SA for Tony’s first year. He came the next year. Tony’s rookie season, Antonio Daniels was the starting PG, until Pop put him in after about 15-20 games.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:49 am
Die Hard Spur:
Great listing of Manu’s many accomplishments. An interesting fact (particularly for those who think our FO are geniuses): when Manu was drafted 57th by the Spurs in 1999, we also had the 29th pick and selected a high school kid named Leon Smith. So not only did 56 other choices pass him up, but we did too.
March 17th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Ballhog - one of your better posts on this board.
I actually think of both Blair and Bonner as 3s (not a 2 and a 4 as you state), but for different reasons.
Bonner fits the spot-up shooter 3 that we’ve had in the past more than the slashing 2 that we typically have.
Blair’s height makes him more of a 3 than any other position.
But basketball, especially in the playoffs, is a game of matchups. Bonner’s rediscovered shooting touch gives opposing bigs a hard time. Blair’s napoleon complex against other bigs is a sight to see, IMO. But they both play out of traditional position.
What’s funny is that if you put the two together, you’d basically have Robert Horry!
March 17th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
After every Spurs-Heat game, I am glad to be reminded of why we selected Hill instead of Mario Chalmers. Chalmers will always be a back-up PG, while Hill could potentially be a perennial starter.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
BALLHOG
March 17th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Nice, heartfelt defense of TP. He deserves it. You hear the same type of ignorant chatter at times about Bryant & the Lakers, that somehow LA would be better without him because he shoots too much, he doesn’t make the players around him better, etc., blah blah blah ……. LOL!
BlaseE
March 17th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Tyler
March 17th, 2010 at 11:04 am
As you know, discussing Parker’s role when he returns from injury depends on a whole host of unknown’s.
- do we make the playoffs?
- does his hand injury fully recover before the playoffs?
- does TP get back in time for any regular season games?
- does his foot also have time to fully recover during this stretch?
- how well does the team play without him the rest of the regular season?
In my view, if the current starting rotation plays REALLY well over the remainder of the season (which means we make the playoffs, and maybe move up to a 5 seed), it makes the decision a bit more problematic. It gives one pause in an effort to minimize rotation adjustments and team chemistry.
But if Parker is healthy come playoff time, the bottom line is the same — who/what players play best as starters or rotation players, and what groups of players play the best together.
As it stands now, it’s hard for me to believe that our best starting line-up does not include an even 90% healthy Tony Parker. I think Manu is BACK, and as in the past, he will be just as effective off the bench. Of course, it would probably make sense to put RJ back there as well, because let’s face it — we need RJ to continue his recent renaissance while paired with Manu to effectively compete.
As far as how effective TP will be in his minutes when he comes back? That has me a bit concerned.
Something to ponder:
Bonner had the same hand injury this year as TP now has. When Matt first came back he did not shoot well for at least another two weeks. Yes, I know TP scores in the paint a lot, but part of the reason he does so is because over the years he’s developed a dependable 15-20 foot jumper. How rusty TP’s shot will be when he returns could be a key to our playoff chances in the first, or I hesitate to say, second round! If his shot’s rusty I believe his minutes could be reduced a bit, and Manu & Hill would have to log heavier minutes.
In the final analysis, I’m sure Pop will make the right decisions to give the team the best chance to win. If we don’t see a healthy TP start in the playoffs, I’m fine with that, but I have to tell you, I would be very, very, surprised.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Ballhog is spot on with TP.
It kills me that people on this board take success to mean we don’t need him, yet when we fail and he is not in the lineup it never gets a mention.
Having the squad playing like it is and adding TP even in limted minutes would be a superb addition.
“Jefferson can be seen just behind Ginobili, with a fistful of cape.”
Fantastic line.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Agutierrez, great post! Thank you!
Manuuuuuuu!
I hope we can pull off a miracle tonight. Nothing will be a bigger boost than a win tonight. Go Spurs!
March 17th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
[...] The Spurs defeated the Miami Heat Tuesday night. 48 Minutes of Hell has that story here. [...]
March 17th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
@BlaseE
Sorry but Hill is not making MANU better. If he were MANU wouldn’t have to yell at him.
Here we go again:
@ ALl the TP haters. Of course they need him for the PLAYOFFS. TP can still blow by people and set the tone when his is in attack mode. He didn’t win FINALS MVP for nothing. (and what’ with people saying that it doesn’t mean nothing anymore?)
PLUS, when he sits guess who backs him up?????
GHILL.
MANU-you’re amazing. I like it when he yells at people. The best players always yell at their teammates and hold them accountable.
ANd can people please stop bringing up the what ifs?
March 17th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
One simple statement….irrelevant until the spurs beat a good team.
March 17th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Tim,
Fantastic read.
This is why I love Manu Ginobili. Nobody on the planet knows what the guy will do next. He is a true super hero to the fullest.
There will never be another Manu Ginobili.
March 17th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
okay… Manu for President…
but more seriously, let’s hope we finish 8th seed and we crush the Lakers in first round…
let’s be honest with ourselves… I don’t see The Spurs winning the championship, but I see em surprise the Lakers on first round
March 17th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Love the passion we seem to have found!!!
I’m on the Parker off the bench wagon - not because I don’t like him etc but exactly the opposite - imagine the absolute HAVOC he would reek on teams 2 unit? He will finish the game anyway and I believe his minutes would be roughly the same. As has been previously stated Parker is fanastic at getting into the lane and making defences collapse on him then dishing to the spot up shooters (Bonner/RMJ/Bogans) who would be licking their chops for that opportunity
Then we could play any style we wanted with the starting unit mainly going the Half court sets (through Timmey PNR etc)then all of a sudden in comes the French Blur so the defences have to adjust time and time again.
As I’ve stated all along I truely believe in this group (although I did want to keep Theo) and think they can win BIG.
A side note on BLAIR and his height, as a rebounder it didn’t seem to worry a certain Charles Barkley??
GO SPURS GO!!!
March 17th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
I’m a Manu fan, but can’t believe people not wanting TP on the team. He’s an instant one man offensive who give the team the easyest 15, 20 or 25 points per game. Even the team probably play better whitout him (as a team), this doesn’t mean that wins are only requiring the best team-oriented playing crew, all the time. Less Tony means less points always. Is Pop’s job to manage the guns he have, team oriented or individual oriented.
March 17th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Game on…
Orlando is a match up nightmare for the Spurs. When I saw Duncan matched up with Howard, I knew he would soon be sitting. He is.
Then comes Bonner and Bogans into the action. LMAO….Pop is a funny dude. Bogans on Vince Carter is funny. This is not the Clippers.
Then there is Ol Matty Matt. He still cant hit a shot with a hand in his face. But, I wont dump on The Red Imrovement. His defense is better.
Cant wait to see how this one turns out…
Great measuring stick….
March 17th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
WOW! Didnt take long at all to confirm…We are hurting in the front court.
Wish our coach agreed. However, based on the recent aquisition of yet 2 more guards that we certainly didnt need…
Guess he didnt see the need for size right now. I repeat, he didnt see the need.
Dewayne Jones wasnt even considered. Ratliff and Haislip gone….
Mahinmi and Hairston can play. They are certainly capable of contributing. The fact that they have ridden the wood and gained practically no experience for the entire season is insane.
Frustrating…
I couldnt think of anything that I could do to help me to at least understand this coach’s thinking,
So,
I have hired Sherlock Holmes to find out how Bogans got into the NBA, How he got onto the Spurs roster, and, for heavens sake, how he was assigned to guard Vince Carter in Orlando tonight.
At least I will have clarity…
March 17th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
Thanks, VP.
March 17th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Anyone still think having Tony start will destroy the Spurs’ momentum?
March 17th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
Watching the Spurs against Orlando tonight really made it evident that they need guys who can score the ball. George Hill=no show, Duncan=now show (off night…really off night), and no real bench support=really bad loss. Hard to watch.
Tony Parker would have helped, still probably wouldn’t have won though. We still don’t have a signature win against the NBA elite at full strength. That is the true measuring stick…..not Hollinger’s rankings or a +/- stat…….no one had those jobs (at least on ESPN) when Bird’s Celtics, Jordan’s Bulls or Magic’s Lakers were at their peak…..how do those guys get paid for that BS in a recession?…..its a farce!……I digress though
These games, although 2nd of back to back, are how we should judge our team and not how play T-Wolves, Clippers, and the Knicks.!
Some bigs other than Mahinmi or Mcdyess are very desirable at this point.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
doggydogworld
March 17th, 2010 at 7:54 pm Anyone still think having Tony start will destroy the Spurs’ momentum?
…yeah, if we only had Tony back we would have only lost by 12. Damn we need Tony back. Maybe he could have fixed Duncan, McDyess, Mason, and Hill from going 4 for 23. Tony please come back and lead this team to a championship. Be the Finals MVP like you were in 2007!!
In all seriousness, this is proof that we have to make moves in the offseason. This loss isn’t really THAT bad if you consider the fact that we played an elite team on a back to back night. However, it is obvious that the old front court of Duncan and McDyess can’t hold up against the youngsters. We need youth and athleticism.
I don’t mean to bust anybody out too hard (its st pattys day and I’ve tilted a couple) but this is a one game sample and a bad one at that. Come on guys.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
Well it was not really too surprising how things ended up in Orlando tonight. At least not to me. Before I start hearing about the back to back game and we were tired lets be clear. It’s the NBA and part of the season consist’s of back to back games. I for one do not think we lost due to that fact though. Keep in mind we were out of this game mid way through the 2nd qtr. As I have stated before we will really see where we are as a team during this final push to the playoffs. It is very easy to have our defense look good/great against bad teams. Tonight we played an upper tier team and got exposed. front court(Mcdyess/Bonner/Blair) were late on rotations and because good teams rotate the ball quickly and effectively our close outs to the ball were late and Orlando made us pay like a good team does.
Ballhog you are right about our lack of front court players but what to do about it is more the question? Only thing I will say about Bonner is be glad he hit those two 3′s to close the half or I would rip him like he deserves to be ripped. Alot of people always stick up for him, but as I said wait until we play the better teams and lets see how he plays. Enough said! Would like to say not all was bad, Manu and Jefferson played very well unfortunately got no help from anyone. Also want to make one thing clear I am a Spurs fan just not as optimistic as some of you on here, and they have given me no reason to waiver from my thought process. As far as trading anyone or one of the big 3, sometimes you have to think with your mind not your heart. You have to make tough, sometimes unpopular decisions for the benefit of your franchise. I would say that over 85% of you do not think we should trade TP and that is ok, but you same people will be furious and blogging alot if he walks for nothing. Remember when the Lakers traded Vlade Divac their starting center and one of their leaders for Kobe Bryant. It was not popular at all in LA but they did it and we know how that worked out. And no I am not saying we will get a player of Bryant’s caliber, but they did not know what they were getting either. Point is you have to make a tough decision and it won’t make everybody happy, but still needs to happen. We can fill the void of no TP. I would have traded Manu to Seattle a couple of years ago for their first round pick, something my friends and I discussed. Keep in mind we would have Durant now and I am sure that Sam Presti would have taken that deal. But we did not do that and now we are getting older w/ injuries mounting and no true pipeline of players to fill the void. Interested to see what your comments are on this post.
March 17th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
Hoopster,
We gotta do something this offseason. I really can’t see us getting out of the 1st round unless something strange happens in the last 16 games. Gotta blow this thing up and start over while we have the chance. Who says Parker even wants to come back to this 7 seed team after next year? Unless we get more talent, this team won’t be much better next year especially with everyone a year older. He could want to sign with a better team and the same or more $ than with the Spurs. What a hell of a year….never thought it would go like this. We can get back on top, it will just take a bit of time, talent, and luck.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:29 am
Hobson,
It is perfectly clear to me and a few others that the Spurs need to make serious changes this off season. The only way for us to really make things better for ourselves is to trade an asset. IMO the best asset and most replaceble is TP. Not an easy thing but nonetheless we really do not have much of a choice. Manu is a FA and TD needs to retire a Spur. Bottom line we do not have much else to work with. Only Mcdyess, Jefferson, or Parker can be traded for us to obtain other pieces. We absolutely can not under any circumstances let TP leave without getting something in return. If we do that we will be relegated to inferior status in the league. I will pick it up on another thread.
March 19th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
The way the game is played in the NBA today, to complement your main pieces, you need a tall, athletic big who’s both a 3 point shooter and a versatile defender that can cover both post and perimeter players.
You don’t need to pay him stupid money and jeopardize your cap flexibility (Rashard Lewis, Jamison…): he can be a midlevel money guy, or an integral member of the rotation (Odom). We were lucky enough to put our hands on Horry, and noone who understands basketball will dispute his value for the team results during the ’04 to ’07 seasons.
Today we have Bonner, and it’s not his fault, but he’s a poor defender.
I agree that Parker would net us the most if he were to be traded, but traded for what?
Because we all know that Duncan has no more than a couple of decent years left, so it doesn’t make sense to trade TP for a pick or an unproven player, because you would just break up the core and waste Duncan remaining time.
If you trade Parker for youth/potential, than you also have to re-sign and trade Ginobili too while he still has value, and really start over.
Trading Parker in order to improve the team now only makes sense if you trade him for the kind of player I mentioned at the beginning.
Parker role as initiator, distributor and drive-and-kick guy could be replaced by a mix of Manu, Hill and a middle of the road point guard (someone like pending free agent Steve Blake).
May 9th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
[...] that Superman cape Jefferson was holding for Manu Ginobili during the regular season? He’s now pulling him down by it like a weighted sack of [...]
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