Friday, November 6th, 2009...2:08 pm
San Antonio Spurs 99, Utah Jazz 113: the Late Edition
Ed. Note: I apologize there was no early edition. I had a quiz on futures markets in 17th century Osaka (Oh, how I wish I was kidding). Tim has children.
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.
-Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
Coming into this season, the San Antonio Spurs faced three types of challenges: known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns. Tim Duncan’s knees are a known known. His degenerative condition can be managed, but not reversed. There are known unknowns. For instance, we all know it’s likely that one of our offseason acquisitions will not meet expectations, but which one?
And then there are unknown unknowns. As in, “I never imagined the Spurs defense would be this woefully inept, even this early in the season.”
OK, so “woefully inept” may be a bit of an overstatement but only a bit. And, in terms of my highly repetitive rhetorical device, both the known knowns and the known unknowns play a significant role in the unknown unknown. (This has grown tiresome.)
Let’s cut to the chase: The Spurs performance on defense last night was underwhelming at best, deeply concerning at worst. I tend to lean towards the former for rather common reasons: It’s very early in the season, and given the number of new additions to the team it was obvious there were going to be some growing pains. I guess I just assumed that, given the reputations of Jefferson and McDyess, those pains would not be so…well, painful.
There were a few defensive issues I was not at all surprised to see crop up: For instance, the Spurs had a difficult time challenging Carlos Boozers’ mid-range jumper. Power forwards with reliable mid-range shots have always been a problem for the Spurs: Dirk Nowitzki. David West. LaMarcus Aldridge. All have given the Spurs their fair share of problems over the years. I’m actually a bit surprised it’s taken Boozer this long to perform exceptionally well against San Antonio (historically, Duncan has dominated Boozer).
It’s just a function of our defensive priorities (the paint and the 3-point line), and the particular manner in which we defend the pick-and-roll, neither of which should change.
But there were other, less familiar defensive issues that crept up continually. For instance, we did a terrible job defending the weak side of the basket. Both Matt Bonner and DeJuan Blair overcommitted repeatedly, leaving the opposite block wide open. Sloan is one of the best coaches in the league at getting his players to recognize open space around the rim and cut towards it aggressively. The Jazz’s excellent off-the-ball movement and our inability to stay home on defenders combined to cost us throughout the night.
But there were simpler, more baffling problems as well: For instance, our wings just had a difficult time staying in front of their wings. In particular, Deron Williams took guys off the dribble early and often. When a point guard as talented as Williams takes you to school, you shouldn’t waste too much time wailing and gnashing teeth. He’s known as one of the league’s elite guards for a reason. But, with a weak link like Bonner and a work-in-progress like Blair both on the frontline, our perimeter defense has to be stout.
On the offensive end of the ball, things were somewhat better. Richard Jefferson looks more comfortable with our offensive sets with each passing game. He found open perimeter space instinctively, and made a quick, confident decision as whether to drive or shoot upon catching the ball.
On the other hand, Manu Ginobili looked slightly out of control for much of the evening. He attacked the rim in a manner that did not suggest aggressiveness as much as it did reckless abandon. And his free throw percentage and 3-point shooting have been nothing to brag about so far this season.
Obviously it’s difficult to be optimistic headed into this evening’s matchup with Portland. Back-to-backs on the road against young, athletic teams are not exactly our specialty.
Honestly, I’m not that concerned as to whether or not we get the W tonight. Although I’d love to get a win, the first 1/3 of the season is not about our record: it’s about meddling with the rotation and working out the tactical kinks. In some sense, I’ll be happier if the Spurs lose a close game in which we play stout defense than if we win a sloppy, offensive-minded affair.
26 Comments
November 6th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
I am trying hard to keep an optimistic view of our season this year but…a few known knowns are becoming very real. Where is all that youth we supposedly got this off season?
I hope to see some more meddling with our rotations. It would be nice to give Hairston (for Bogans) & Mahinmi some early playing time….just to prove that the first 1/3 of the season is about finding the right players.
All the excitement I had before the season started seems to be vaporizing. Come on Spurs!!!
November 6th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
“I’ll be happier if the Spurs lose a close game in which we play stout defense than if we win a sloppy, offensive-minded affair.”
-amen to that.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
I must agree that I was overwhelmingly disappointed with our D.
I get to see only a few spurs games a year, due to poor MBA coverage here in Aus, and my being too poor to afford pay tv, and so far most of what I’ve seen has surprised me.
I definately expected a slower rotation, some kinks in both offense and defense, but I expected intensity mixed with professionalism. When big names like RJ and Dyes stepped into the team, I never expected a seemless meld, but I didn’t expect that we would fail one of our stalwarts, D.
They often show on TNT a stat of last season, how many games the spurs won when keeping opposition below 90, compared to when they didn’t. The difference is massive, and last night when Utah knocked 38 (I think) in one quarter, it wasn’t a nice feeling.
I do expect that Pop will somehow managed to get us to start playing as the smooth, well oiled unit that playoffs requires, I only hope it doesn’t take too long.
As for tonight, I’ve no expectation of a win really, Portland are looking like they have potential, and we’ve seen how we handle back to backs. However we’re 12/14 home games or something coming up, I’m looking forward to see what we can pull together.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
i hate doubting pop but the lineups hes putting out are getting ineffective, hes gotta get it going so the players can get their rhythm tonys looking great though and manu looks healthy just gotta get that basketball shape going
November 6th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Let’s ugly it up. Defend first then worry about all the offensive weapons we’ve added. We are more athletic than past seasons and I’d rather first see it put to use on the defensive side of the court.
An anecdotally observation: Spurs struggle just as much with too much time off as we do with back-to-backs since last season. Maybe the older guys get stiff. Now with new players, any loss of rhythm due to time off his bad. I hope the b2b game actually helps tonight. No one should be worn down this early and with all the off time.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
the spurs will begin to look better as a unit as the year goes on, but we will never escape the truth that our front court has gotten seemingly older and slower. any team with a halfway decent, young, and athletic frouncourt (which is most of the league) is going to give us trouble i.e., the spurs are in serious trouble.
antonio mcdyess will prove to be a costly acqusition for us down the line. he will provide nothing more than an occasional jumper from 15, but will be just as a defensive liability as matt bonner in iso situations. mehmet okur had his way in the post with ol’ dice when, for his entire career, he has lived on the 3-point line. duncan will have a decent season, but his decline is expected against the likes of boozer, gasol, and blessed be, greg oden and lamarcus aldridge tonight.
i am confident that the spurs will adress this problem and not allow us to go down in flames (which this problem will result in if not dealt with) considering we spent a fortune this summer. i think we must deactivate antonio mcdyess despite his veteran savvy and go with ian mahinmi. he may be unpolished and foul prone, but he can stay infront of people and do a better job protecting the rim than dice or bonner. theo can still get up so i won’t count him out. pop and r.c. must look for answers come the trade deadline.
tim, graydon, don’t sugar coat this like the express news writers. OUR ENTIRE FRONTCOURT IS A LIABILITY!
p.s. DEACTIVATE KEITH BOGANS AND BRING UP HAIRSTON!!!!!!
November 6th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Pop’s defense is predicated on having 2 dominant defensive big men. Pop puts up with Bonner because he spreads the floor offensively for Duncan. But in watching the whole game, Duncan and McDyse were out of position all night. They got beat one on one and played bad team defense. The perimeter defenders are supposed to drive the other team’s guards into our bigs, but when the bigs are consistently out of position it makes for a complete mess.
In the Spurs player’s defense, I have never seen Utah play half the offensive sets they ran last night. Many of the sets reminded me of the Lakers offense when they play San Antonio. The coaching adjustments to the offense were slow and way too late.
I think the Spurs are looking at 20 games to get hammer out the defense. That will yield lots of blowouts going either one way or the other.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
I agree with the comment on Bogans. Bring up Hairston! Bogan’s stat lines read 0,0,0,0,0 with a +/- of -10 every game. I think Hairston is a solid, tough player on both sides of the ball.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Graydon:
I dont think new faces should be a big excuse when 4 out of the 5 players on the floor are returning players. Our starting line up is exactly the same as last year except for RJ. This is similar to having RMJ, last year beginning. Yet, last year, I dont think we were so bad on defense to begin the season.
Second, at any given point in time, given the lack of clarity on defense among the new players, Pop should put together a rotation that mitigates the risks. Like always have atleast 3/4 returning players in the mix.(I think he did this to a certain extent).
Another rotation related concern is that, given the freshness of the new season, knowing that we are not going to be great out of the door and we would lose some games, Pop should take gambles with the starting line up and let Dice play with TD and have RMJ start instead of Finley. Both are not being done because we say they are new to the system. Isn’t it all the more reason to let them play now and let them get adjusted soon so that when they learn the system, the line ups are a little better and defence gets better as well because of that? I simply dont get it. Having said that, I trust Pop and believe that he knows what to do.
What may come, I will be here supporting my Spurs. Go Spurs Go
November 6th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
There was a lot of change, seemingly, over the off-season as we brought in youth! and athleticism! but none of that is really evident yet so far. The only athletic new player we brought in who plays is Jefferson and he’s not exactly young. He’s not old either, but he’s not some young gun. We also added two 35/36 year old post players. Our “athleticism” isn’t even activated for the games. I’m talking about Hairston, Ian, and Haislip. I’m not saying those guys would be saviours but it is a sad sign that our supposed youth movement isn’t even eligible to play.
So, as it is now, we’re actually older than last year.
How the hell did that happen?
Switching gears to last night. Not to get all Buck Harvey dialectical, but it’s interesting to contrast Pop with Sloan. Both are HOF people, but Sloan often gets forgotten when we talk about the greatest coaches in the league. To me he is the best coach in the league.
One would think Sloan would be completely old school, and he is, yet every year they find 2nd round talent or even undrafted talent and get them to be productive right off the bat. I would think Sloan would favor veterans but as far as I can tell he has no problem playing players if they have talent, even if they’re young. In that sense, Sloan is much less conceptual and intellecutal about the issue.
It’s fair to say that Pop outthinks himself often on these things. Right now he needs to play whoever is playing the best. I get a sense that’s what Sloan does, and I thought that was what Pop did. So far I can’t tell what’s going on.
The Spurs are a family, which is good, but with most families there is unspoken dysfunction and politics involved. I’m not part of the crowd that wants to throw Bonner and Finley under the bus, but if other players are playing better than them, then those new players need to play more. What a concept, I know.
Blair is our 2nd best big after Tim. I don’t think it’s even close. Yes, his D is suspect but that’s the same for everyone else as well. Also, Blair at least acts like he gives a crap so that attitude needs to be rewarded. Right now Finley is like the uncle with a drinking problem that no one wants to talk about. If he keeps getting abused then we need to find someone who can guard his man.
This is a long-winded way of saying…on back to backs can we at least activate Hairston?
I’m not really that concerned about our Toros farm team like this blog is, however, Hairston seems to be the last hope to show that the improvements seen in players in Austin will have an impact on the actual Spurs roster.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I’m about ready to boycott until Pop starts giving Hairston and maybe Mahinmi some minutes. Now is the time to give the young guys a chance. If they can’t cut it, then bring back the veterans, but at least give them a chance.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I just found this website so if this has been discussed please excuse me. We can no longer say Spurs and defense in the same sentence until Tony Parker learns to fight across a pick. Perhaps the Spurs are not fast enough to handle rotations but it would not be necessary if Parker would keep with his man. This is exploited more and more.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Spurs could use Kurt Thomas, even though he was old. Dude could play defense. Popovich doesn’t seem to have a problem playing Blair or Hill, so why won’t he give run to the other young guys? Perhaps they are not picking up “the system” in practice.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
I don’t know why comment is still under moderation since 2 hrs. Anyway, back to back offers us an opportunity to rest the old legs and activate a few young, read as fresh legs. But, I dont know if Pop will look at it that way.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Hey, maybe it’s just a way for Pop to see how much he’s got in his hands, i.e., how each player would gel with the other players and how he would use each player’s weakness and strengths in the future. I think that as early as now, the coaching staff is not bent into winning 20 in a row, but more of understanding how they can use each player as the situations arise. I must admit that even with their wins, I find it a bit dubious that they let their opponents score that much per game. Looking at the teams that beat them so far, these are not really big threats come playoffs time, unless a major line up change in each team happens.
I think these first two months would be spent on evaluating each player, while at the same time letting Manu get back into shape, RJ and McDyess to be more comfortable and Blair and Hill to mature more. I don’t think when the season started, Pop was thinking “yeah, we need to win 20 games in a row,” but it’s more of “how can we fit in the new guys with the old without letting the quality of the game suffer,” and “who could be the best player to replace this player when an injury happens (given that the Spurs had a reputation of being injury-happy last season).” This is not throwing the games, of course, but a necessary way for the team to grow up better. The goal is to be ready for the Finals and win it through teamwork, not to get a 72-10 record. This is the Spurs, not the Fakers.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
The one thing that I noticed last night was when Blair was in the rotation with Duncan, Parker, Manu. They played with some intensity and made a small run. I look for the team to play alot better tonight against the Blazers.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
If I were Pop, I would put Bogans, Ratliff & McDyess on the inactive list for today and bring in Hairston, Mahinmi, & Haislip. I don’t care if they seriously fail to meet fan expectations. They can’t give performances worse than the vets have so far, so why not bring in some fresh legs against the young up & coming Blazers?
November 6th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Bringing up Mahinmi and Hairston is not a solution to their problems on defense. It’s not necessarily that McDyess can’t match up against young, athletic bigs. But with all the new frontcourt combinations, it’s going to take a month or so before we can expect guys to get comfortable with one another and recognize when they need to help out on the weak side and when to stay at home. Maybe someone with Mahinmi’s reach and athleticism can stop the kind of shots Boozer was making last night, but I don’t think that’s true. But when you watch two or three offensive guys at a time finding their way to the rim unmolested, getting easy putbacks etc., I think the Spurs’ problem is more with assignments and being in the right place at the right time than an inability to match up.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
I just attended a Poli-Sci faculty lecture last week that used the exact same Rumsfeld quote in the context of Arab foreign aid. Pretty funny.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
On the Spurs, I intermittently loved the defense in the fourth quarter. There were some flashes of the type of defense needed to win in the playoffs: quick rotations, hands in shooters faces, good block-outs, secure rebounding, safe outlet passes. The quicker the team gets in the habit of doing those things, the more wins we will see, now and in the Playoffs.
The problem was the offense in the fourth quarter, not the defense.
November 7th, 2009 at 2:55 am
I hate to tell you guys this, AGAIN, as i did over and over and over, throughout the offseason….Richard Jefferson is nothing but an AVERAGE NBA player. All the stats point to this truth, and they did a long time ago. His problem is that he is not efficient. Yes, he averaged 20 points per game last season, but that’s with shooting in the low 40% from the field. He is a volume shooter, and that’s not someone you count on to take you over the hump. His defense is atrocious and he just doesn’t seem to be made from the old Spurs championship mold.
On to the next problem, Mcdyess. It is over for him. Please just give his minutes to the bright shining addition, Blair. I got stuck with dice on my fantasy team, and luckily got to pick up Blair as a free agent. Best move ever. Why the HELL does Blair only get 17 minutes per game? Give this kid some time on the court if you know what’s good for ya.
Duncan/Ginobli. I did not know whether these 2 could play at the level they have played in the past. Are they or aren’t they over the hill? Duncan seems to be right up there from last year, but you can tell that Ginobili has started to decline. His game is no longer where it was 3-4 years ago, and that is only going to get worse.
1) Jefferson sucks
2) Dice is horrible
3) Blair is awesome
4) Duncan is Duncan
5) Ginobili should start an extermination service and forget about basketball in a few years time.
This does not spell championship. Once the lakers get Gasol back, they will be far too much for the Spurs to handle this year.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:50 am
I think the problem is, Finley can no longer play basketball at the nba level, Bonner never could. Pop’s insistence on playing veterans over youngsters who are better than them has cost us in the past and will this season as well.
Also I didn’t see the game last night, but the box score says Bogans started??? So a newcomer, [and seriously: does anyone think he's ever been better than either Mason or Hill?] gets a start? That makes no sense.
I want to see more Blair and Hill, some Hairston, and very little, preferably none, of Finley and Bonner.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:54 am
It was easy to get exited this offseason. The SPURS made all these great moves and the young talent was showing their stuff in the Summer League and Preseason. My Question now: WHY THE HELL AM I LOOKING AND THE SAME OLD DAMN SPURS TEAM!??!! I don’t know about you guys, but I feel pretty let down right now. Sure, RJ’s out there figuring things out, Georgie and Blair are getting a fair amount of minutes but does Pop seriously think that a starting line-up that includes Bonner and Finely is going to get us anywhere?? Learning curve and schemes aside, if we’re consistently going to go into NBA matchups being at a disadvantage at 2 positions everynight (an more against the elite squads), we’re screwed. The only team getting away with playing a lot of old guys right now is Boston, but their guys are at least still athletes. Please Pop… give the young guys a chance now and bench Bonner and Finley. Oh.. and what did Roger Mason do to get such a cut in his minutes?
November 7th, 2009 at 6:09 am
I’m not suprised one bit, this is exactly what pop wanted, and I bet you come January pop will be done with the constant changing line-ups. This is duncan and ginobilis pre-season so it will take them a few games to get warmed up. I’m Impressed with Jeffersons intensity attacking the hoop and getting to the line more than any other player on the team. But im throwing bonner under the bus. Time to part way’s with him his 6 points doesn’t make up for the 15 he gives up on D.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:23 am
please give guys like hairiston and haislip and chance to see what they can do bonner sucks and so does finley before this season goes down the toilet
November 8th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Like pretty much everyone else we’ve gotto de-activate both Finley/Bonner. If we are going to have these teething problems them couldn’t we go for double jep and get the young guys in Hairston/Haslip/Mahinmi in the rotation we may as well suffer all the pain at once?? Why did the spurs get all this ‘YOUTH’ to see it either get DNP or very low minutes?
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