Should the Spurs Buy a Ticket to the Stephen Jackson Sweepstakes?
As many of you may already know, Stephen Jackson has stated publicly that he would like to be traded by the Golden State Warriors. He mentioned the Texas Three-Step, Cleveland, and New York as potential landing spots. This all begs the question: should the Spurs attempt to trade for Stephen Jackson?
For the purposes of full disclosure, I’ll admit that I would love for Stephen Jackson to return to the Spurs. He was one of the my favorite players during our ’03 title run. Turmoil has followed him since his days in San Antonio, but my opinion of him has consistently echoed that of his former teammates: Tim Duncan et al. speak often of their affection for him, and so do I.
But there are plenty of players I would love to have on the Spurs. That doesn’t make their acquisition realistic. So is my yearning to see S-Jax back in the silver and black empty hope, or could this truly happen?
At this point, there are only two trade scenarios I would consider (both of which were mentioned in a comment thread on Friday): Jackson for Bonner and Mason; or Jackson for Bonner, Finley and Williams. In terms of the championship run the Spurs are about to make this upcoming season, I think either of those are an immediate upgrade.
And immediate upgrades have been the name of the game this offseason. The notion that Tim Duncan is the window has gained some traction in the front office, and subsequently, from a financial and personnel perspective, the team has gone all in.
If you’ve already bet the house, why not toss in the car and the kids’ college fund while your at it? Then again, it’s not as if the Spurs are doomed to irrelevancy in 2 or 3 years: This is a team with some solid young pieces, a rejuvenated core, and arguably the savviest front office in the league. Maybe a little consideration for the post-Tim Duncan era is in order.
As someone who plans on being a fan far past the year 2012, I’m fine with making some long-term considerations as long as we have already ensured that we will genuinely be a contender this upcoming season. And as we’ve discussed around here recently, there are reasons to be skeptical.
Just to be clear, I believe the Spurs are a contender. In fact, I believe the Spurs might even be slightly underrated. But if we had Stephen Jackson coming off the bench behind Richard Jefferson, we would be a large step towards silencing the doubters and (more importantly) shoring ourselves up against potential injury.
It’s worth noting that, if the Spurs had both Jefferson and Jackson on the team, the starting position at small forward could be up for grabs. For all this talk of Jackson being a “chucker,” his player efficiency rating of 16.20 last season was better than Jefferson’s rating of 15.45. And although I am very susceptible to the argument that Jefferson’s PER was a bit deflated due to the injury woes the Bucks faced, you could make the same argument about Jackson and the Warriors, who were without Monta Ellis for a significant portion of the season.
Again, just to be clear, I think Jefferson deserves the starting job, Jackson or no Jackson. But were this trade to go down, there is an argument to be made.
That being said, we all know PER is disproportionately reactive to a player’s offensive ability and, let’s be honest, Jackson’s abilities on the defensive end are probably a larger concern. Except, when you are talking about trading some combination of Michael Finley, Matt Bonner, or Roger Mason, do you honestly see Jackson as a step down defensively? I don’t.
But Jackson’s potential contributions this upcoming season are not what concerns my colleague Tim Varner, who is opposed to the trade. Tim’s worried about the fact that Jackson is owed $7.6 million next season; $8.5 mil the next; $9.2. mil the season after that; and to top it all off, $10 million during the 2012/13 season. Those are numbers that make even someone as shamelessly adoring of Jackson as myself take a step back.
This all leaves us with a question we have asked numerous times this summer: Would you rather compete for championships during the next 2 to 3 seasons or be better prepared to undergo a legitimate rebuilding effort in 3 or 4? Call me imprudent, but I side with the former.
The Dallas Factor
I’d like to mention that, if Jackson does not end up in a Spurs uniform next season, there is a decent chance that he could end up playing for Dallas. Of all the places aside from San Antonio Jackson expressed interest in (Dallas, Houston, Cleveland, and New York), Dallas worries me the most.
As things currently stand, Dallas is a very underrated ball club. In my opinion, with the Marion acquisition, the moved firmly into the West’s top 5, if not into its top 3. If they had Jason Terry and Stephen Jackson coming off the bench behind Dirk, Howard, Kidd, Marion and Dampier, they would be no pushover come the postseason.
I don’t love the idea of Cleveland strengthening their team any further either, but for the sake of my own mental health, I try not to worry about Eastern Conference contenders too much. We have 82 games and 3 rounds of the playoffs before we have to worry about meeting an Eastern Conference team in an elimination game. Let’s stay focused on our rivals in the West.
Which is also exactly why I am not worried about the Rockets: Even if they did trade for Jackson, he alone doesn’t push them into the ranks of the West’s elite.
By no means am I advocating trading for a player just so a division rival doesn’t get him. But I did want to say that seeing Jackson in that awful blue and green isn’t exactly the way I had hoped this story would end either.
Graydon,
I agree that Captain Jack would be a good addition and would be an upgarde to the Spurs immediate needs… however,
I opposed to this trade because of the same reason Tim has (his contract bad enough to take). And if ever by the 2012-2013 he would be the only Spur under contract.
Also, I would want to have the ‘wait and see’ attitude… observe what we have first, then make a possible move before the trade deadline in February (if needed).
Maybe by then we will have more options because we still have the expiring contracts of Finley, Bonner and Mason (although i’m hesistant to include him in a trade).
Dallas, concerns me too… but then again IF Haislip can play good defense (with the likes of Dirk, Odom and Lewis), Ian breaks in to our Big man rotation, Hairston and Hill continues to develop and Blair is what we think he is…. I like our chances. thats a lot of if’s and that is why we need to have to ‘wait and see’ first. Just my thoughts… Cheers!
Cpt. Jack has a special place in Spurs lore, not least because he helped bring in the Admiral’s farewell championship. But I don’t think we should pick him up. Here’s why: (1) The Spurs have already committed a ton of money to salary in the Jefferson trade, and adding Jackson’s sizeable contract sounds like a bridge too far. (2) A lot has happened with Jackson since he left the Spurs in ’03. Too much of it had to do with strip clubs and guns for him to be the type of “character guy” that the Spurs generally seek out. (3) Because so much is up in the air right now for the Spurs regarding how well certain positions will be filled, it makes more sense to wait for February before trying to fill needs. We just don’t realistically know what our needs are now. And if we go for Jackson now, we may lose our most tradeable assets (who also happen to be quality players) on a position that doesn’t need much bolstering, while another position remains unfilled because of some unanticipated problem (below-average play by a new addition, injuries, etc.). And, if we did find ourselves overstocked at small forward (or at least insufficiently stocked elsewhere) there’s not much likelihood we’d get a trade partner to pick up Jackson’s sizeable contract at midseason during a time of financial belt-tightening.
I’m not saying that Cpt. Jack would be a worthless addition. Far from it. But, if it was my call, I wouldn’t make that trade (and all Spurs fans breathe a sigh of relief that it is not, in fact, my call).
I agree with the trade scenarios. I too am a fan of Jack. I also don’t want to see any quality players going to the Mavericks. (An aside) I want Terry to end up on a loser because he along with Paul are the 2 most punk players I have ever seen.
I just want to point out that one of the primary reasons we got Kurt Thomas was because he was the only defender in the western conference who gave Timmy problems. and that worked out great for us. If i remember right, we payed him about 8 mil a year (at least the first year). I reckon Jack would probably be a bit more productive. I havent checked the stats, but if our favorite Laker poster (aka Kaveh) on this blog is right, RJ isnt as good of a shooter as Jackson. I think Jackson has matured over the past few years as hes been in and out of trouble. The guy can ball. Big time. He can shoot well (not as good as Mason, but still good), he can defend well, and he can handle the ball probably better than Mason. I like the wait and see approach, but if we make a move, i would be happy if it was for him. He never had any character issues while he was with us, and i doubt thats a coincidence…
I think in this case the Spurs can have their cake and eat it too, as far as being able to be a legitimate contender through 2012 as well as having a stable, financially sound future with a competitive team after that.
To me, Jackson is a longer, more talented version of Mason, but when you factor in all of the questionable reasons for pulling the trigger (I already detailed my reasons in “globetrotting with the Spurs” comments), to me it doesn’t make sense to take the risk.
I also have more confidence in Mason than many Spurs fans seem to. The Spurs put him in a role in over his head last season and, up until he had to play backup PG as well as his underwhelming post season stint, I thought he passed with flying colors. The guy is a harder worker and will be in his rightful role this season. Without any risk, I think he can fill the theoretical Jackson role well enough for this team to win the championship this season.
Willingly taking and making clutch shots, whether it’s in the regular season or playoffs, to me is a skill not to be taken lightly. He’s shown he can do it in the former and he deserves another chance to proven he can do it in the latter.
The reason we are even discussing this, but somehow nobody wants to say it, is that even though we all hope that Manu won’t get injured, deep inside we fear it’s just not going to work out. It’s impossible these days to read the “Manu” without the mention “if healthy” afterward. It’s depressing, and that’s what the prospect of trading for for S-Jax revolves around: he could step up in Manu’s shoes. We all know the Spurs chances will go way down if any of the big 3 is injured, and the Spurs don’t have any “insurance” for any of them — but in Manu’s case it just seems so much more likely that it would be borderline suicide to start the season w/o somebody to replace him.
Ok, now that I’ve got that off my chest:
- many people have reported that Nelson and Cuban aren’t really the best friends in the world. On the other hand Cuban likes overpaying, but still.
- I’m a bit surprised by the contract angle. If there’s anybody that the Spurs are overpaying for, it’s Jefferson. And we don’t even know what he’s worth. Hopefully he’ll prove that he’s worth every cent of his $14+ million salary, I’d actually be happy if he would be worth every cent of a $10 million salary. Without going into a debate of how much money players should be making, I’d say S-Jax seems to be paid about what he’s worth, in relative terms. A contract in his range of $8-10 million a year looks “normal” if compared to similar players around the league.
What would worry me the most if this trade were to go through, is that suddenly our depth (outside of the 2) would suddenly be (essentially) rookies. I’m not sure how far a “system team” like the Spurs can go with a roster of superstar starters and rookie bench.
Will , I dont agree that we are discussing such a trade because we fear Manu will not be healthy enough. The presence of Jax in 03 certainly helped the spurs, and Stephens presence in that year had nothing to do with being Manus insurance policy.
That being said, if we do sign Jackson, I dont think we would be able to afford resigning Manu at the end of this year ( If you know more about the cap than a cap-workings ignoramus like myself, please feel free to interject ) So in a way , we would be choosing Jackson over Manu Ginobili.
Alamobro is correct. Unless Peter Holt is willing to go way over the tax line, Jax would eat up most of the money we would use to resign Manu.
And, in all honesty, that’s why my feelings about this are more conflicted than my post reveals. Yes, I would love to have Jax back on the team. But if that means no more Manu after this season, well…
Graydon, Perhaps gaining Stephen Jackson would not necessarily relegate Rich J to the bench. Stephen could play shooting guard for San Antonio the way he did in 03.
I salivate at the thought of Parker, Manu, Captain Jack, Rich J and Timmy on the floor at the same time. Im sure the smallball-happy Pop drools even more at the prospect of this.
The problem is if Mason should be included in the deal , we would lose our best shooter.
Worse yet, the this deal could possibly torpedo our ability to resign Manu. Also , how would this affect potentially signing Splitter at years end ?
ok first of all, MANU is our best shooter, not mason who choked late in the playoffs last year. I could agree with second or third best shooter but not first. lol also just trading mason and bonner would solidify the deal as shown in the espn trade machine. Also, williams, mahinmi, g hill, ginobili and finley all will have their contracts expiring by next season which will definitely decrease the cap space, but we will definitely resign ginobili, hill and i’m sure ginobili will be willing to take less than his current salary to stay on the spurs. Because of his age, he won’t get more than 7 million a season after next season. This trade is definitely possible. Also if Dallas takes Stephen Jackson, then you might as well put dallas as finals contenders next year, we cannot afford to take more damage from Dallas next year. (i hate Dallas and have too many friends who like their team in which we end up having 20 minute debates on whose better the spurs or the mavs) Nabbing jefferson will definitely put us over the edge of the lakers and will make us contender even if ginobili is injured all next season. I really hope this trade goes through. Oh and here’s the mason bonner trade for jackson on trade machine:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lp2gay
For clarity, it’s not the amount owed to Jackson that bothers me. (Although, I think trading for Jackson portends bad things for Manu Ginobili’s future with the Spurs.) It’s the length of Jackson’s contract that bothers me.
Setting aside the duration of his contract, Jackson would be an awesome get. He’d improve the team–in fact, the Spurs would have the best roster in the league–in almost every way. And he’d help us the most against the Lakers. On that level, there isn’t much to think about. You pull the trigger.
While Manu is a far better all around guard than Mason, and is infinitely more of a “clutch” player than Mason,I wouldnt say he is a better flat-out shooter than Mason…..The question isnt IF the deal can be consumated,the question is SHOULD it be consumated.
Outside of being Manus agent or best friend, and fast forwarding to the end of next season, I dont see how anyone can be sure that manu will take a sizeable pay cut to stay with the Spurs. Then there is the question of Tiaggo Splitter who under the cap rules, will be able to be offered a bigger contract than the normal rookie offering…
That being said….I agree zainn, that signing Jackson, in addition to significantly increasing the spurs title hopes this season, would also make a great insurance policy were Manu to be reinjured.
I still dont know if I would do this deal…
I think the Spurs should absolutely go after Jax. Although he is a bit overpaid, he can essentially play three positions. (He actually could played 4 positions with the Warriors, but he was a SUPER undersized PF). He would not only help us with depth at the SF position, but also played quite a few minutes a PG which would also shore up the PG position behind Parker and Hill.
I too am concerned about his salary a couple years out, but by then we will have a totally different team plus we could trade Jax’s expiring contract. Finley, Bonner, and Williams would do the trick without having to give up Mason. I really think he is going to have a nice year.
Could you imagine this lineup:
C – Duncan
PF – McDyess
SF – Jackson
SG – RJ
PG – Parker
6th man – Manu
Pops’ biggest dilemma would be whether RJ or Jax plays in the final three minutes! Well, even if this doesn’t happen, the Spurs have had a hell of an offseason.
Even if Stephen Jackson is an upgrade at present, I’m still not going to pull the trigger that fast… We still don’t know who might be available come trade deadline by February. In my opinion, if we think we still need to improve our current roster, waiting ’till the trade deadline maybe our best route…
The good thing is that even is manu is injured b4 the trrade deadline we can trade manu to a crappy team for some high quaality teams for cap relief. Also manu has hit wayyyy more game winners than mason. I still think manu or even parker is a better shooter than mason
Like previous posts have mentioned the Spurs might be best served to wait and see what they have and then address any potential weakness and with that in mind the Spurs should not trade for S-Jax.
In my opinion the Spurs should only pull the trigger right now for a player that helps us right now and also has a contract expires in time to that keeps our rebuilding plan for the 2011 offseason intact. As the season continues their should be more than enough options for the Spurs to consider with the number of teams that are trying to clear cap space for the Lebron chase.
Now of course a change of plans could take place if during the season…..I don’t even want to say it but if a certain player happened to still have ankle issues this season than his expiring contract could be used in a trade for Jackson.
don’t we have bird rights to manu so we can resign him without affecting our cap correct. then weres the problem. lets get the captain win it this year and the next three while were at it. and i just looked at the warriors page and last year was jacksons third year with them so if we trade for him we get his bird rights also.
I live in San Francisco. I watch the Warriors. Stephen Jackson would have been a great role player before Jackson got with the Warriors. With Nellie ball and the little basketball IQ fans-wise there is in the Bay Area, Stephen Jackson fell victim to the hype. I cringed for 3 years at the number of ill-advised shots he takes and cringed worse when he made a fastbreak pull-up 3 pointer.
Jackson is not what people make him out to be. A good defender he is not. The only good D he plays is on Dirk and everyone knows a little muscle and a little swag can take Dirk out of his element. A leader in any sense he is not. I have seen him dribble the ball for 7 seconds, then slowly drive the ball and not have the whistle called for him while the other team is running for an easy fastbreak layup as “Capt’n Jack” is jumping up and down, flailing his arms and yelling at one of the officials.
I have been a longtime fan of the Spurs. They are my favorite team and Tim Duncan is my favorite player. As someone who has witnessed the horrors of the Warriors and Stephen Jackson first hand, I only wish Jackson will sign with the Cavs, Celtics or Lakers. He will cripple cap-space and be an albatross.
Sorry for my semi-rant. JACKSON IS TERRIBLE.
i may sound stupid , but is it possible to re-negotiate his contract if he wanted to be on a contending team?
Regarding Manu, I don’t think we have to worry about his injury to much… he’s resting right now and has mentioned that he’ll come back 100% when training camp starts.
Manu knows his body more than anyone so let’s be optimistic that he’ll come back strong. And of course we know that Pop will still be watching his minutes when the season starts…
So need to rush for a trade, when indeed we may have better options in the future…
* I mean no need to rush for a trade (with all due respect to Capt. Jack)
Zack,
I’m not sure fully aware of his contract details. But the only way (I think) to re-negotiate or restructure his contract is if he an opt out clause…
that way he can opt out and negotiate a new deal with the team…. But it’s highly unlikely to happen.
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For the people using the wait and see argument, that does not really fly in this scenario. From a talent standpoint, there is no one better shaking loose at the trade deadline.
It would be like the RJ scenario. The Spurs had a 2010 plan. But when RJ became available, that went out the window because the Spurs could do not better than RJ anyways. So why wait?
It would be the same with Jackson.
The contract situation is a tricky one though. The Spurs have been pretty good at moving bad contracts (Butler…) but they are running out of assets to package in order to do so.
So Jack could be traded if the Spurs wanted to rebuild when Tim is done, but would it be worth about 3 legit shots at a title now to give up Blair or Tiago or Hill to get rid of Jackson later?
JJ,
The fact it we still don’t know who would be available come trade deadline. I like the wait and see attitude because it give us a better idea on what needs to be addressed…
As it is right now, the current roster looks good enough even with Bonner in it. Well atleast on paper. Truth is we don’t know how things will pan out that is why i’m choosing that route…
and giving up either Blair, Hill or Tiago just to get Capt. Jack (is 31 already) will be a mistake…. we still have no idea how huge their potential might be… Blair could be a beast on the boards and has offensive skills.
Hill is developing quite fast and could prove to be a nice backup for Tony.
While Tiago has been solid in the FIBA Americas.
In addition, we already have RJ to start at the SF position, Finley can still give us atleast 10-15 mins a night and we have Hairston… so let’s be a little more patient.
You misunderstood:
Even if we don’t know what will come available at the trade deadline, realistically you could not hope for anything better than Jackson.
Lebron is not shaking loose or Kobe or Wade. Jackson will be the best tier of player that could possibly shake loose. Not to mention, he knows the system already and is loved by the core he won a title with. There is no better fit to hope or wait for.
I am not saying they have to get him, just trying to make that point.
Also, I did not mean give Hill, Tiago or Blair up now. I meant that if the Spurs were worried about the length of Jacks contract, they could package one of those guys down the road to get rid of it. It is tough to determine whether or not it would be worth it. Legit shot at titles now or possibly giving up talent later?
Yes, the Spurs have RJ to start. But what Jackson does is offer a ton of options. Jackson can play the 2 spot easily. He could come off of the bench. He can play PF if you want to go small ball.
So you could have:
Parker
Jackson
RJ
Duncan
Dice
or
Parker
Mason or Finley
RJ
Duncan
Dice
with
Hill
Gino
SJ
Blair or Haislip
Ian or Theo
or
In crunch time small ball
Parker
Gino
RJ
Jackson
Duncan
Just a lot of options, not to mention the significant upgrade over Finley or Mason in perimeter defense.
I think the waiting until the deadline notion is the least important aspect of this potential deal. But there are other legitimate questions that make it tough. Especially the contract.
No I didn’t misunderstood… all I’m saying is we might have better options or flexibility if we wait until the deadline…
Don’t get me wrong I also like Jackson (I just don’t like the way he’s salary is structured) but the way I see it. He could be an upgrade on the defensive side that Hill and Hairston combined might be able to accomplish.
I am hesistant to include Mason in a possible trade because he shoots the 3 ball very well (better than Jackson). he also proves to be clutch although he kind of ‘disappear’ during last season’s playoffs…. But with the current roster, Mason as a fifth or sixth wheel on offense I like our chances.
Also, I’m not hoping for Kobe or Lebron to get loose… Keep in mind that there a lot of teams out there that might be seeking to shred salary before the trade deadline that way we have more options.
Three expiring contracts: Bonner, Finley, Williams. Trade value works. We loose nothing. No reason to give up Mason.
If Holt is serious about taking on LAL and challenging for rings, then go all-in for real. Make the most of Tim’s window.
Could Jax defend (along with RJ) both Kobe then James?
PS – If Jax didn’t want to spend he last productive years with a non-contender, he should have thought about that before he signed his last contract.
Zack,
No, it’s not possible to renegotiate his contract.
Bigtee,
Yes, we have Manu’s bird rights. So, in that sense it doesn’t effect the cap. But the Spurs are way into tax territory, so in that sense whatever Holt pays Manu will cost him double.
If we could pull off a deal where we keep our big 4 (RJ included) it would be some team. With so many options, Pop would need a lot of control. It would take some assurance that Jax would be 2003 Jax and not present-day Jax.
TE-Dublin,
I’d prefer to keep an expiring contract back, and, as a player, I like Marcus Williams. Mason and Bonner is the way to go.
Robby,
Liked your Kobe-Duncan-Shaq piece.
So far as wait and see goes, you know that I agree. In this case, however, if Jackson is available for a pair of expirings then the Spurs need to think about it. I’m disinclined to make such a move, but wouldn’t be bothered by it at all. They’d guarantee themselves no less than the WCF for the next 2 years.
To echo JJ’s points,
Captain Jack has already played for the Spurs. He knows the system, he’s played with Tim, Manu, and Tony, and he knows Pop and the playbook.
Any guy we could bring in at the Feb. deadline would have to learn/adjust to all of these things.
Not to mention if we are making a deal in Feb. it will be because our team is not good enough to win the title.
I would like to think if the Spurs make any moves they might as well move on Jack NOW. Trying to build team chemistry is a lot easier over a full 9 month season than Feb on.
Winning now means more to me than 2012 and beyond. Tim might be gone, Manu might be gone, and every indication so far says Pop will be gone if Tim retires.
Will Parker even resign in that situation? I have no clue.
This has been a crazy summer. I’ve loved every second of it. The only thing that could make it crazier would be bringing Captain Jack back.
Let’s do it.
So here’s my question, I would love to have Capt. Jack back, but wouldn’t that level of talent want the ball more? With five greats on the floor who would be willing to surrender their touches besides Timmy, who is the one guy we need to get the ball to more.
I think Jackson is a hands down upgrade over Mason, who he’d ultimately be replacing anyways. It’d be kind of like going back to 2003, but again the long-term implications are huge. I think Jackson has matured somewhat in his ability to hit shots and make plays, also somewhat with his decision making, more-so than in 2003. That alone, added with viable defense (at least better than Mason or Finley) makes him an upgrade at least from an on-court perspective. In essence it’s pretty much 2003 replacing Robinson, Bowen, Claxton, and Rose with McDyess, Jefferson, Hill, and Blair/Mahinmi/Haislip. Jackson knows the system and for all his foibles he’s a solid player. He’s an automatic upgrade over anything we have currently as a starting 2 or backup 3. A wing rotation of Jackson, Jefferson, and Manu would immediately be among the best both offensively and possibly even defensively in the league. Tack on a PG of Tony Parker and one of the best big-men in Duncan and I have a team that I think is difficult to stop. At the worst case scenario, Jackson just becomes additional Manu-ankle insurance. While he’s turnover prone, you know he can make plays, and you know he can make big shots.
Randy,
I would say yes if we were talking about Vince Carter or Corey Magette, but at this point in Jack’s career I think he cares more about winning.
There’s no doubt in my mind if Jackson could go back in time, there’s no way he doesn’t resign with the Spurs in ’03.
Sometimes it takes guys a while to mature and realize what’s most important… winning.
Jaceman,
I’ve just started into your match up series. Good stuff.
Jaceman, I think in worst-case scenario, Stephen Jacksons, in addition to providing Manu insurance for one season, leads to our in inability to re-sign Manu at the end of the season.
Also, Jax will be 32 years old by the time next postseason rolls around and is commanding an average of about 9.5 million per season over the next four years. Between Stephens contract and his age,our “youth movement” would be undermined a bit to put it lightly.
Ultimately, if the Spurs should bring the captain aboard and Manu were to truly be whole again ( and somehow convinced to sign for less at the end of this season ) this trade would be an obvious boon over the short term. Id say it would be worth it even if it torpedoed our ability to sign Splitter next season….
Let’s make it. Captain Jack can defend Dirk. Also, he can play “ala” P. Pierce. Do you remember Kobaby, he had tons of problems with Pierce/Garneet, can you imagine jACKSON/DUNCAN
Captain Jack is probably the only ex-Spur that I would ever campaign for them to reacquire, but that contract is a little cumbersome. That and his age would be my biggest worries about him. And why wouldn’t they start him at 2? Manu ends up on the bench every season anyway. Start Jackson and Jefferson, bring Manu off the bench, and play all three with Tim & Tony as small, crunch time line up.
LETS DO IT. kOBABY HAD TONS OF PROBLEM WITH PIERCE/GARNETT, SO HE WILL WITH JACKSON/DUNCAN. pLUS mANU AND rj CAN guard him over some strectches to drive him crazy and tire him. Also, Captain jack plays good D on Do(i)rk. Another option is to add Bowen or trade for bell so the fakers will pee their pants
Much like Sauce above, I am also a Spurs/Duncan fan from the SF Bay Area and get to see a lot of Warrior games. And I have to agree with Sauce on pretty much EVERYTHING he said. Everything. He knows what he’s talking about.
I would also add that Jackson is no longer the slasher he was just 2-3 years ago and that although he made highlight-reel 3′s in the 4th Qtr 2-3 seasons ago (and some last season–notably against Lebron), they never showed the ridiculous amount of bad 3 point attempts he took through out the rest of the game. His stats are also VERY inflated because he played for the Warriors (similar to the inflated numbers of David Lee and anyone else on the Knicks or Suns or Sacramento). It would be very interesting to know what the avg pts/gm the players he were gaurding had per game last year against him. The stats for the players on these running teams playing no defense should be adjusted for inflation, no joke.
I think Mason is a better fit at the 2 position because he is a MUCH better spot up 3 point shooter and because we have Tony and RJ for our slashing needs.
Its true that Jackson would be a good back-up SF and is flexible enough to be an insurance policy for Manu and can play PG sparingly. And one thing that Jackson certainly is, is durable. He has played A TON of minutes at GS (which is why he may take as many bad shots as he does).
But if we make a move I believe our best move would to be consolidate and shore up our frontline and get a legit (7 foot) center. This is the NBA, not college, and Blair 6’7 frame is only going to get him as far as Chuck Hayes. And apparently there won’t be any players like this available until closer to the trade deadline. As for acclimating this savior of a center into out system, most likely he will be a defensive specialist so how much acclimation does he really need? Besides, (and I may be wrong on this) isn’t it much easier to incorporate a big man into our system than a wing player?
True Jackson would give us more options, but he essentially gives us the same things that Finley gives us. And Bonner’s ability to be a stretch big should not be underestimated (until we can find a good defensive big that is).
Bottom line? Don’t trade for Jackson!!!
The worries over Jackson’s age are a bit overblown. He’s only 31 and it’s not like he’s the kind of player who relies on athleticism. He’s more of a grounded player and he’s developed into a nice point-forward of sorts (averaged 6.5 dimes last year) Does he take bad shots? Yes, but then, taking bad shots is an intricate and necessary vice of Nellie Ball. In the Spurs system, with Duncan and Parker and ultimately Pop running the show, Jackson won’t be taking too many bad shots, especially with Manu and Jefferson crowding his minutes already.
The same goes for his off-the-court problems. Looking at his time as the leader of the Dubs, he hasn’t gotten into any trouble (serious anyways).
As for the concerns of not re-signing Manu after the season, I wouldn’t worry about that too much. If the Spurs take this team with Jackson to the finals and/or win it all, it’s going to be tough for Holt to not bring Manu back no matter what the costs. A championship is a championship and it brings championship money with it. The wise thing (and the Spurs management is the epitome of that word) would be to offer Ginobili a 2 year contract.
On the flipside, if Manu gets hurt, which is more likely than not at this point, then the Spurs can retain their flexibility at the trade deadline by dealing him for whoever might come available.
As a Lakers fan, I know it’s tough to lose an exciting player to win right now (Ariza for Artest), but winning championships, as all of you Spurs fans know, is what the NBA season is all about. As much as I don’t want to see this trade go down, getting Jackson puts the Spurs without question on top, a place where many pundits already have them. Scary.
For what it’s worth, I would do this trade.
Beat Counselor,
While Mason is a better spot up shooter, as is Finley, neither one of them is close to the player that Jackson is. While you say that Jackson’s numbers were inflated on a running team, the same argument can be made for why his defense looked so atrocious. Name one player on the Warriors who didn’t appear to get lit up on defense? I mean, he played quite a few minutes at Power forward and point guard for god’s sake. Speaking of god, defensive philosophy to the Warriors is like god to an atheist.
Jackson is the kind of player who can give the bigger shooting guards and bigger SFs fits, especially with Timmy and McDyess, and perhaps Ratliff behind him guarding the basket. He’s physical and scrappy, and showed that back when he was with the Pacers and Spurs. He’s also the kind of player that can carry a team offensively on any given night (though, he proved he can’t do it night in and night out). Having Jackson assures that Manu can be used even more sparingly, thus saving him for the playoffs.
Also, using Manu for 20-25 minutes a night not only saves his legs, but it also devalues him for the offseason when he’s looking to re-sign.
Maybe Wacko Jacko will be crap in three years and the Spurs will be pissed off that they’re paying him $11 million. But if he helps bring a couple of finals appearances or a championship or two, nobody’s gonna be that bitter.
Besides, in three years, Timmy could be retired and Parker will need a tough veteran around to help him carry, what will probably be a much younger team.
As for waiting for that defensive minded center that will magically appear at mid-season, you can always use Manu’s expiring to try and get that player, though, I have no idea who even remotely fits that description. The best I could come up with is Marcus Camby, and even if the Clips are way out of the race, they’re just as likely to hold onto Camby’s expiring $10 million contract.
ERick Dampier? I’d rather have Wacko Jacko…
Great post Jordan and great to hear a Laker fan with a thoughtful perspective.
I agree that the system Jack has been playing in (Nelly Ball) has hurt the perception of what he can do.
Nelly doesn’t exactly preach defense. He does encourage jacking up shots whenever possible, and more or less playing with reckless abandonment.
I think those who are hesistant by Jack’s shot selection, high turnover rate, or lack of defense should look at the system (or lack thereof) that he has been playing in.
Jackson’s strengths: big frame, post-up game, hits big shots, can run the point, unpredictability (some call it crazy), outweigh the negative perceptions in my eyes.
Aaron,
His age could seem to be a big problem, but if you look at his career he is just hitting his prime. Some guys just age really well..for example Kobe. I am really on the fence with the whole trade possibility, but if I had to make a choice now, I would say Bring home Jack! Tim Duncan is my favorite player of all time, and I want him to retire with more championships than Kobe and Shaq. Yet another reason why we can’t let Jack go. He must not end up @ Dallas or Cleveland. No ring for the King!
While I love Jax(for mostly sentimental reasons), I think it’s too early to say whether the Spurs should go for him. I want to see(among other things) what we get out of Haislip – if he can play the 3, as has been suggested on numerous Spurs sites, there might not be a need for Jax. Too many questions right now, just like Tim said.
Look, you can analyze this 6 ways from Sunday and every statement can be met with skepticism and lead to more questions. The only facts that remain are:
1) Jackson is a significant talent upgrade offensively and defensively over Mason and Finley. Even though it is a legit question whether or not the gain in Jackson will be recognized entirely if he just fills the Mason role because of limited touches and such, he no doubt is a better player.
2) Spurs are in win now mode and do not have a lot of time to wait and see on players. If they get surefire bet player like Jackson, it goes a long way to solidifying the gamble they are taking.
3) His contract is of serious concern. The length could have serious repercussions not only with regards to Manu Ginobili resigning, but with possibly hindering the rebuilding process after Tim.
Jordan-
I must admit you make some excellent points. Nellie’s system is essentially 7 seconds or less so, yes taking bad shots is inherent. Also you’re right, Jackson can take over a game unlike Mason or Finley. You’re also right that SJax has been an upstanding guy since he went to the Ws. And again, you’re right it would be nice to platoon Manu, RJ and Jax and save Manu for the playoffs. And again you’re right there really aren’t many defensive minded 7 footers out there to be had.
But I do feel Capt Jack is past his peak by 2 years.
What I wouldn’t do for Pryzbilla or Dalembert, Gortat or even Roy Hibbert. I would even be willing to consider, Bogut, Kaman, Foster and even the more offensive minded Brad Miller. All of which seems unlikely at this point…but who knows by the trade deadline.