Thursday, October 22nd, 2009...11:52 am
Spurs Waive Jerrells
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The Spurs have waived Curtis Jerrells. The roster now stands at 16. The final roster spot has come down to a contest between Malik Hairston and Marcus Williams and, by the looks of things, Hairston is the clear favorite. It’s always possible that the Spurs could cut someone with guaranteed money, but that seems unlikely.
58 Comments
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Expected. Toros bound?
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Here’s hoping Bogans gets the axe next so we can hold on to the young guys.
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I agree Jblock we really don’t have a strong need for Bogans b/c its not like he does anything special that the young guys can’t do.
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I’m curious to see, based on the front office’s commitment to spending money for the better of the team this year and next, if they will actually cut a player with guaranteed money.
I’d like to see them do that, as I’d much rather have a young, developing Marcus Williams at the end of the bench than a veteran Keith Bogans.
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 pm
In fairness to Marcus Williams, I don’t see him playing at all for the Spurs this season if he makes the roster. Plus, he’s no longer eligible for the Toros.
I think the Spurs should let him go for his own player development. He could definitely get playing time on another team. Milwaukee Bucks could use bodies!
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I don’t really understand why the Spurs signed Keith Bogans anyway. Ok, he’s a good defender and can shoot some 3′s, but I would also prefer seeing a young guy like Marcus Williams on the roster rather than Bogans.
I think there are enough experienced guys on this team.
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:40 pm
@Sean C
If the Spurs think that down the road he can help the team, I don’t see them freely letting him go to another team. Unfortunately, there’s no loan system like in European soccer. But I think for as many minutes as Bogans will (or won’t for that matter) play, they should keep Williams.
@Ivander
My thought initially was that they brought Bogans in to push and motivate the young guys (basically letting them know that they are going to have to fight for a roster spot), but with him signing a guaranteed deal, I’m not so sure. But I agree that his experience isn’t all that needed. He hasn’t exactly had a lot of success in his career.
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
he also signed for the vet minimum i think, so doesnt the league pick up part of the money if hes waived?
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:51 pm
@SpursfanSteve
I don’t think so. I’m pretty sure that the Spurs are on the hook for the whole of Bogan’s $1.2 M salary. Technically, double that because they’re over the salary cap.
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:56 pm
I think Bogans is more probable to help us in the playoffs than Williams is. Williams might develop into a reliable player in a few years, but that’s not relevant for us while we’re trying to win another with Timmy.
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
I think Bruno said the league picks up $200k of Bogans’ tab if he gets waived, so there’s still a strong incentive not to waive him. And since he was brought as a (veteran) defensive specialist, he isn’t really in competition with anybody else for his spot.
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:33 pm
@SeanC
Interesting thought about the Spurs intention with Williams.
I could see the Spurs front office deciding over that with the Bogans signing, they had no future with Williams. However, as a sign of good faith for his service and patience in the Spurs system, they give him some experience and showcase him during some summer league and pre-season matchups against NBA caliber talent. I’m probably extrapolating this too far, but that’s how classy I think the Spurs run their organization.
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
The League does pick up a portion of the money for any player who signs for the vet min so it would not be that much of a financial hit to waive a player with guaranteed money. Its not like they would be spending an additional 400k plus luxury tax. Barring any major injuries, the 14th and 15th guys on the bench will not see any substantial playing time and its not like Hairston or Williams is going to get locked up by anyone else this year so if we are interested in these guys for the future they will still be around next summer.
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:01 pm
I think it would be a better idea to keep Bogans, Hairston, and Williams, and cut Marcus Haislip. I liked him, but he hasn’t shown anything that would make them want to keep him and his contract is the minimum so cutting him wouldn’t be a bad idea. If they do keep the 15th spot open, I see them cutting Haislip, and keeping Hairston.
October 22nd, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Graydon,
I think the Spurs might cut Williams. Maybe an arrangement to Europe is a possibility?
I like the Spurs to keep Hairston. They can carry a 15 man lineup then make a trade at the February deadline if they have to. Just my thoughts…
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:45 pm
I said in a previous post that the spurs would waive Jerrells and Haislip. I now think it will be Williams as the final cut. Williams is making $826K not guaranteed, and Haislip is getting $855K guaranteed, for which the spurs are on the hook for $655K if they cut him.
So it ultimately costs the spurs $1.48M to keep Williams, and $855K to keep Haislip. Neither player is expected to contribute alot. The main reason I thought Williams would stay is that he has point guard skills, but I think $ will be the deciding factor.
Looks like Mahinmi, Bogans, Hairston, and Haislip get slots 12-15.
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I just think that the work that Bogans does can be done by others.
Georgie and Hairston have the look of potential(as in now) lockdown defenders, and they can hit 3s too, as can Haislip(supposedly).
I just think that the issue of not wanting to abosrb the hit of Bogans’ guarateed contract doesn’t apply this year. This is not the difference between being over or under the luxury tax line and the FO has already proven that they are going all in this season.
If only Isiah Thomas was still in New York, then we could just trade Bogans for 3 first round picks.
October 22nd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
I haven’t seen all that much of Williams, but I guess I’m not sure where all the love for him is coming from, other than for his youth.
It seems like he’s a long, skinny combo guard who isn’t excellent at anything. In addition, we’ve got Tony Parker and George Hill at the point guard spot for about the next 5 to 8 years… there’s not really a pressing need for an inexperienced third string point.
Bogans is reputed at least for being an excellent defender, a veteran who has the respect of referees, and the experience of being an NBA starter. He can be counted on to make adequate contributions at least, and could conceivably make bigger ones if his defensive mojo is working.
Cut Williams and keep Bogans. This team is built to win now.
October 22nd, 2009 at 7:48 pm
@Chris K.: That’s exactly what I’m thinking, but I said it in fewer words in my post earlier. Bogans has plenty of experience, including playoff experience, while Williams doesn’t really have anything to offer us for the time being. He could potentially become a solid role player in a few years, but that doesn’t help us win another championship.
October 22nd, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Is it possible that the Spurs could stash Malik on the Toros for one more season and keep Williams with the final roster spot? Next year when several contracts come off the books, including Bogans then Malik and Marcus would be automatic reserves.
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:03 pm
I don’t agree with the people wanting to cut haislip. you cant coach high speed and athletic ability. which he has, but the spurs can coach defense, and if he has a chance to stay with this squad and learn their system then we have a a bruce bowen guy for the odoms, dirks and other mobile bigs that bonner and timmy cant chase down.
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Got to keep Hairston.
Drop Williams (and bring him back maybe next offseason if he hasn’t had a chance). But then one can argue, if he hasn’t found a team, then he probably needs a lot more work.
Hailslip has the potential to be what you want. Spurs still have no answer for Dirk or Odom or any other mobile big guy.
Bogans has the potential to give you an experienced defender that can be pulled in when needed against swing men like Kobe. Yes, Hill is starting to pick that up, but its nice to have more than one guy. And maybe Hairston will continue that in the future if he stays with the Spurs.
October 23rd, 2009 at 1:51 am
We should keep Malik Hairston. I think he is one of our key addition this season. He provide youth, atthleticsm, and energy in the team. He has proven his worth this preseason. Hairston is an certified nba player who can now contribute to the team. I dont really know Bogans well. But I think Spurs get him as out lock down defender for the like of Kobe, lebron, c anthony, etc. Spurs are used to having a defensive stopper. Now that we dont have Bowen on our team, we really nedd to keep someone like Bogans. He has the experience as well. Well, Marcus Williams will be the let go. He has not proven his value during the preseason games.
October 23rd, 2009 at 5:22 am
cut bogans… keep HAIRSTON, WILLIAMS, MAHINMI …. 8s time for youths…….. come on spurs management………
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:17 am
It’s about time for Jerrells. I guess Tony Parker is ready to increase his practice workload now. Please no Austin Toros for him. sabankshots.blogspot.com
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:29 am
I’ll be surprised if even Hairston makes the team. Look at how well Finley shot the ball vs. OKC. They might sign him to an extension, just to lock him up for a few more years to help transition into the post-Duncan apocalypse.
No, but, I think economics will come into play. Williams might go to Europe as some suggested (however not to close to James Gist, he might not have positive things to say about learning new positions) and Hairston will go to the Toros while the Spurs assess what they have with Haislip and Bogans and see if they can swing a trade somehow in case neither of them show improvement.
However, I imagine many teams will try to roll with the minimum of 13. Teams might be monitoring the progress of the D leaguers more than ever looking to sign players to 10 days as the season progresses, which could potentially make Hairston a top candidate. That’s one interpretation.
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:40 am
I don’t know much about Bogans, haven’t seen him play much and know his offfensive numbers were terrible in the pre-season. I still think there’s a reason the Spurs signed him. I always hear lock-down defense, so I think there’s value to be added with him being on the roster.
I really like Williams but I’m less anti-Bogans than others. I want Hairston but I’m undecided as far as my preference of Williams and Bogans.
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:54 am
Realistically, who’s minutes is Marcus Williams going to take?
PG - Parker, Hill (spot duty - Ginobili, god forbid Mason)
SG - Mason, Ginobili, Hill, Finley
Would anyone here want Williams getting minutes over these guys?
It would be great to see him make the team, but I think it would actually stunt his growth considering NBA teams don’t practice that much once the regular season starts.
Williams needs to get reps with a team that will play him.
October 23rd, 2009 at 9:17 am
@ Sean C
and whos minutes is Bogans going to take? I’m saying at roster spot 15, why have someone who is not going to get minutes now and is also not going to get minutes later? Williams could fight for minutes as early as next year. I am not convinced that “going all in” means keeping a Jacque Vaughn type player on the bench who never plays. Or when he does play, just runs the game. Williams might make more mistakes than Bogans, but he’s also going to make more plays. At the 15th roster spot, where all you get is garbage time if you are getting time at all, i’d rather have someone with some upside. Bogans does not have any.
October 23rd, 2009 at 9:20 am
Anybody read simmons’ column today? He loves us and is picking us to win it all.
October 23rd, 2009 at 9:28 am
I couldn’t agree more with SpursfanSteve. I’d rather see Williams as the 4th PG than Mason, as well. We will need that extra (non-Roger Mason) point on nights when Tony sits.
I don’t think we are giving enough credit to Georgie, Hairston, Manu, and even RJ when we say we need Bogans just because Bruce is gone.
October 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 am
SpursfanSteve,
I see where you are coming from, but I think their would be a lot more pressure on Williams b/c he’s young and feels like he needs to prove himself whereas Bogans is a vet and knows what it’s like to be a pro. I still don’t know what Williams brings to the table besides potential at this point.
The Simmons article was great! Props to Manu, Duncan, Pop, and the Spurs in general.
PART1 http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnflpicks/part1/091023&sportCat=nba
PART2
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/part2/091023&sportCat=nba
October 23rd, 2009 at 12:53 pm
i was at the cavs game and i noticed that bogans was the only one doing a really decent job of covering lebron, and i liked the way he was using his hands on d. so at that point i’d take his defense over williams’ potential, at least for this season.
October 23rd, 2009 at 2:03 pm
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/10/19/facebook.southwest/index.html
Q and A with roger mason, bottom of the page, very interesting
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Shout out to Bill Simmons- he loves reading about the Spurs and I have a hunch he checks into this site.
Bill give the site a hollar if I am correct.
October 23rd, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Judging by who got playing time today, only Williams got a DNP. I think this one is solved pretty much.
For any partially guaranteed contracts, Pop can hang on to Hairston until midseason, although I’d really hope they extend it then and bring Hairston back next season.
October 24th, 2009 at 2:45 am
two straight dnp’s for MW.
October 24th, 2009 at 6:31 am
Hairston will most likely he finley’s replacement next season unless he extends his contract. nice
October 24th, 2009 at 6:54 am
We can’t really judge defense by box scores; maybe Bogans is a good enough defender to merit keeping around. In any case, I just don’t see Peter Holt being asked to eat $2M to keep a guy who would be our 15th man this season and would probably never really amount to much more than that.
October 24th, 2009 at 9:02 am
>Realistically, who’s minutes is Marcus Williams >going to take?
>PG – Parker, Hill (spot duty – Ginobili, god forbid >Mason)
I think Williams becomes the 3rd string PG if he makes the 15-man roster. At 6’7″ he poses matchup problems for the opposing team at that position. He could also be the 3rd string SF. I think Haislip will win out over him only because he’s 6’10″ and can play SF.
Last season, Hairston was cut from the 15-man roster to make room for Williams who was tearing up the NBDL. Currently, Hairston is playing better in the pre-season. Ultimately, neither player is going to contribute much towards a championship- they will either play garbage time, or play more if the spurs have several injuries that take them out of title contention anyway.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
@John-
Holt is not going to penny pinch. He’s already agreed to take Bogans. He’s not going to change his mind because of luxury tax for a guaranteed contract. The NBA throws in like 200k to pay his contract.
@J-
They did bring in Williams later, but Hairston has shown that he’s improved more than Williams. Heck, Hairston played better in the reg season last season (even though he was not as good as he is now).
Hailslip is not being cut. Spurs brought him from Europe to the Spurs, not to cut him. They obviously see something in him, but realize it’ll take some time.
October 24th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
i think the reason the spurs signed bogans and why they most likely will keep him is for namely Kobe, LeBron, Vince Carter and Paul Piece/Ray Allen. Hopeful insurance in case nobody else can guard them time championship run time.
October 24th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Sauce,
George Hill did excellent against Kobe. Had a hand in his face everytime he shot the ball while he was guarding him. The only person in the league big enough to guard Lebron is Artest (maybe Pierce). Bogans isnt going to be strong enough to guard Pierce or Lebron. He can guard Kobe, but so can Hill (and Manu). Same with Ray Allen and Vince Carter.
October 24th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
@spursfanSteve
Hill did fine. But it’s better to have multiple guys who can guard Kobe than just one. Why limit it if Bogans can do a decent job?
The point is to make Kobe work for every single point. The harder he has to work, the more difficult it becomes for him to get his scoring and get his teammates involved.
Kobe out of all of the listed guys is the #1 guy you want to prep your D for because the Lakers are the most dangerous in terms of depth with star power.
October 24th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
SpursfanSteve,
Hill did do a good job but top tier guards need new and different looks on D especially since we don’t have Bowen anymore. I’m not saying Bogans is a defensive wing stopper, but I can see why they signed him.
There is really only a two year window left in the Tim Duncan era. We need what we can get now, not in 2+ years potentially. For all the things Williams is said to do well, it is all based on future potential. Pop didn’t trust Hill enough to play him in the playoffs last season. If Williams made the team, there is no way Pop would even dress him for the playoffs.
October 24th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Grego,
$2M (what the Spurs would still be paying for Bogans if we cut him) is not penny-pinching; I don’t care who you are, $2M is a lot of money. It’s one thing for Pop and RC to go to Peter Holt and say, “We need you to pay the luxury tax to give us a 4th All-Star talent like Richard Jefferson who can help us keep up with the Lakers and give us one more chance to win a title in the Tim Duncan era;” it’s a completely different thing for them to go to Holt and say, “We need you to pay the luxury tax so that we can have a marginally better 15th man, even though there is a zero percent chance he plays any meaningful minutes.” The fact of the matter is, Marcus Williams is NOT any better than Bogans if neither of them are going to play anyways. It’s like being the tallest of short men; nobody really cares who wins.
October 24th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
John,
He’s signed to a guaranteed contract. This means the Spurs FO already thought out the implications. He’s going to be on the roster. It will actually cost more money to cut him because the roster throws in money towards his vet min contract. At least this is the case with Bogans.
October 24th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Grego,
For some reason, just looking at your posts after my first post here, I thought you were arguing that we were going to cut Bogans instead of Williams, but now that I actually go back and look at all your posts, it looks like I was wrong. My bad.
October 24th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Some random thoughts…
Some have said the Spurs could try to convince Bogans to do a buyout after telling him he won’t play much this year. That’s not gonna work. Bogans has no other job. He won’t accept a buyout. He might not play, but no way in hell he leaves on his own. So, he’s going to be on the team. Not to mention, Pop has some love for him. The more fans hate him, the more Pop will probably defend him. At least that’s how things usually go.
I guess we’re stuck with Bogans, but he might improve and impress us in small moments down the road. Let’s just say expectations aren’t very high.
Finley has come into the season looking motivated so he’s going to get minutes until he proves he’s fallen apart - however that might not be apparent until the Spring, if at all. With so many players of similar talent level, everyone should be rested by season’s end as the minutes should be evenly distributed to get the young guys acclimated as well as to rest the old workhorses.
Ultimately, this is a good situation. It sucks that Hairston might not make the cut, but I’m sure the Spurs will try to manipulate the situation so that they keep their eye on him in hopes to keep him around for later.
October 24th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
All i’m saying is that at the 15th spot, he isnt going to get playing time. How much time did Vaughn get when everyone was healthy? The only way Bogans gets minutes is if people start getting hurt, and if that happens he isnt going to be good enough to take us to the finals (at least from what i’ve seen). At the 15th spot, keeping Williams would have at least let us still be prepped for the future in the event things do go to hell this season. Since neither one is likely to get minutes, the “win now” argument, to me really doesnt make sense.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
You are totally disregarding what I said in both my posts that Bogans at least has the possibility albeit slim but nevertheless the ability of defending Kobe.
October 24th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Bogans defending Kobe well? Get real.
I don’t understand why the Spurs couldnt convince Bruce Bowen to return for Bogan’s salary if they wanted a “defensive specialist who could motivate the young guys.”
Bogan’s does not belong on the team above Marcus Williams at the 15 spot, because Williams can be a 3rd point guard.
Speaking of, what game were you guys watching? George Hill got BURNED by Kobe over and over again, up to the three that was the difference in the game. I would not let him guard Kobe one on one and expect a different result. Asking a single guy to guard Kobe is silly.
October 25th, 2009 at 2:13 am
We did ask Bruce Bowen to do that exact thing many times.
October 25th, 2009 at 4:28 am
Chillfan,
Hill had a hand in his face in the games i watched. Kobe hit the shots, but he still worked. He only caught Hill out of position once. And Hill was a rookie. He is long, athletic, and really, really quick. He also commits to defense.
And i said i thought Bogans could guard Kobe. I just dont think he will ever get the opportunity because he is going to be playing behind so many people. So why bother keeping him? Let Manu, Hill, and RJ all take turns. Any of them can do just as good or better AND contribute more on the other end.
October 25th, 2009 at 6:04 am
@SpursfanSteve Bogans is obviously not good enough to take the spurs to the finals (as an injury replacement) but he might be good enough to help the team win a few games in case someone gets injured during the regular season.
For all his limitations, Bogans is a known quantity. Pop knows what he can expect to get from him and while Williams might have a bigger potential it is yet to be seen what he can really do in the NBA.
October 25th, 2009 at 7:21 am
I think SpursfanSteve hit the nail on the head. I think the best way to slow down perimeter stars like Kobe is too have a platoon of decent defenders that can use their fresh legs and make the offensive player work hard to get free and get good looks at the basket. Manu, Hill, and RJ seem capable of performing this feat, but having Bogans in for short spurts in the defensive rotation is a luxury that might be needed some nights.
October 25th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Spurs.com just announced that Marcus Williams has been waived.
I was hoping to keep him around at the expense of Keith Bogans, but I certainly see the logic behind the move.
Best of luck to Marcus Williams.
Go Spurs!
October 25th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
bogans guarding kobe or other guards would actually benefit us, and our smart organizaiton would not have spent our luxury tax on him, if we didn’t think he couldnt guard big ballers like kobe or lbj. I think even poppovich said he was guarding well in the preseason. he also puts less pressure and gives more stamina so our core four. Even if we find our bruce bowen in another player like george hill, we can still give some of his minutes to bogans, just because kobe or lbj is not that bad of defenders as well. i think we’ll see how bogans does against the hornets on tuesday. Finally on national television. a whole game. can’t wait
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