Thursday, October 15th, 2009...10:06 am
The End of the Roster
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Richard Jefferson asserted himself as a full-fledged member of the Spurs last night. He gave Spurs fans a taste of the exotic during last night’s game by receiving a pass in the corner and blowing past his man for an at-the-rim finish. It’s been awhile since San Antonio crowds have witnessed such athleticism from their small forward. The early returns from San Antonio’s offseason makeover show every sign of living up to promise. It’s amazing how much the additions of Richard Jefferson and Antonio McDyess have opened up the offense.
Things are less settled at the end of the bench, where the Spurs must carefully deliberate their options. They have more talent in camp than at any other point of the Duncan-era. So the challenge before Gregg Popovich is not deciding whether or not Malik Hairston is an NBA player. Hairston is obviously deserving of a spot on someone’s roster. The challenge is weighing his talent against the big backdrop questions of team needs, the salary cap, and projecting the roster forward. With those things in mind, here are my mid-camp thoughts about the end of the bench:
- Keith Bogans is a solid veteran with a contract guarantee, but he’s picked an inopportune time to slip into a shooting slump. He’s shooting an eye-poppingly bad.071% from the field during the preseason. And his calling card defense is playing second fiddle to Malik Hairston, who gives great effort, picks pockets and is a surprisingly good shot blocker for a perimeter player. Divorcing his training camp performance from previous accomplishments, Keith Bogans is fighting for a spot on the team. But in a context that stipulates guaranteed money and accounts for his previous NBA experience, the Spurs will have a difficult time waiving him.
- Curtis Jerrells is a mixed bag. He hasn’t shown enough to make the team, and his .280 FG% and near 1:1 turnover to assist ratio definitely stand out. But he’s aggressive on both ends of the court and would make an excellent addition to his hometown Toros. Hopefully things break that way. Jerrells is probably a year of development away from a safe a spot on an NBA roster.
- Marcus Haislip’s lackluster early performance is disappointing, but that may owe something to his adaptation to a new system. It’s difficult to say. But as of right now, I’m not sure where or when Gregg Popovich would play Haislip. The frontcourt is loaded and Matt Bonner is far more reliable as a perimeter stretching big. And Bonner’s knowledge of the system makes up for his underwhelming athleticism. In order for Marcus Haislip to find minutes , he must hit shots and show the ability to play effective defense.
- NBA.com’s highlight package of the Spurs-Clippers game was actually helpful. Marcus Williams makes no less than three solid plays in the package, and we know from the play-by-play that he also hit a critical three pointer in the final minute of play. Williams is starting to showcase his point forward skills and the reason why his knowledge of the system is such a valuable asset. Unfortunately, that portion of the preseason which sees Popovich doling out heavy minutes to hopefuls is dwindling. Setting aside contract guarantees, Williams and Bogans are fighting for the 15th roster spot, with Malik Hairston having firmly secured a spot on the team. But money is money, and there is no guarantee that the Spurs will keep 15 men. It’s still an uphill climb for Williams.
- Malik Hairston is making the most of his 18 mpg, and he’s doing it from within the system. What is the ceiling on Malik Hairston? In the space of a year, his game has advanced by leaps and bounds. He’s only 22, and show’s the promise of a productive NBA career. I’d not only like to see the Spurs keep Hairston on board, I’d like to see him get consistent minutes through the first half of the season. Maybe 12 minutes a game behind Richard Jefferson. As the season progresses, the Spurs could phase Hairston out in favor of Michael Finley. If the Spurs take this approach, they have the option of assigning Hairston to the D-League where he can continue to see significant minutes and refine his game. With another year of growth, Hairston might provide the Spurs with a replacement for Michael Finley. Finley and Hairston are different players, but San Antonio’s needs are also shifting because of the addition of Richard Jefferson. It’s not hard to imagine Hairston as a permanent fixture in next year’s rotation.
- Ian Mahinmi is a curious case, isn’t he? I don’t think there is any question that Ian Mahinmi makes the team. The question before the Spurs is whether Mahinmi has played well enough to justify a contract extension. My answer is a qualified yes. While it’s true that Mahinmi is not overwhelming anyone with his current statline, it’s also the case that he’s showing enough to warrant further consideration from Popovich. Here’s the thing: Ian Mahinmi will be 23 in a few weeks. Big men with his size and athleticism are rare, and he’s not entirely raw. If the Spurs extend Mahinmi, but decide that he doesn’t have a clear place on next year’s team, they should be able to move him for an asset, even if it’s a fairly insignificant draft pick. To my mind, that’s their worst case scenario. There are a number of much better scenarios, including Mahinmi developing into a productive big man. Having said that, the Spurs should wait until the 11th hour before extending Mahinmi. He certainly needs to demonstrate his worth to the Spurs. It’s for this reason that I’d like to see Mahinmi start at least one game next to Duncan. Gregg Popovich has done right by Mahinmi in terms of minutes, but the start Mahinmi received against Miami was derailed by a bad call. And despite the bad break, he still played well in that game. How would Ian Mahinmi look against Shaquille O’Neal? You laugh, but that could be an interesting match up because of Mahinmi’s ability to play a quick, high energy game. My point is simply to say the Spurs will have the entire season to get their playoff rotation down. Now is the right time for a little front court experimentation, even if it proves a failure. And besides, there is no reason for Duncan or McDyess to bruise themselves up by bodying Shaq in the post.
- There is another issue before the Spurs, one that is implied in the comments above. Should the Spurs keep 15 men? So far as I’m concerned, they’d be wise to do so. The Spurs are heavily invested in the Austin Toros. Part of that investment assumes a certain approach to their 14th and 15th roster spots. Moreover, their Toros project logically entails that they exercise patience and commitment to those players at the end of their roster. This is true from both a business and basketball standpoint. From a business standpoint, they need to demonstrate to fans that caring about what happens in Austin is worth their money and time. From a basketball standpoint, they need to know if it’s worth their time to give a player like Marcus Williams a long leash. Right now, we really don’t know what player development patterns will emerge from Austin. Maybe it’s the case that D-League success stories will consistently prove a three year commitment. We don’t know. But if the Spurs can figure out how to shore up their bench by developing affordable second round draft picks from within their program, they’ll have a real advantage over other teams. What they do with the end of their bench is vital to the entire experiment. Couple these considerations with the preseason play of Malik Hairston and Marcus Williams, and I’d like to see both of the aforementioned players make the team. I’m not a fool; I know that’s unlikely. But that’s where I’m at. Peter Holt is not simply investing in an extra player by keeping 15 men. He’s maintaining his previous commitment to the Austin Toros. This season is a crucial early indicator of the Spurs’ ability to develop players in Austin. Given the economy and his track record of walking the extra mile for his team, Peter Holt is fine by me if he thinks a commitment to 15 players too cost-prohibitive. But when you’ve come this far already, why not see the investment through?
56 Comments
October 15th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Your right about Ian. It is just too hard to find big men with his potential and at this point he has next to nothing to bargain with. We should be able to lock him up for a little longer at wal-mart prices and at worst we should be able to move him for a late draft pick as you stated.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Sunk costs? I really like Hairston and Williams and I love Mahinmi. A year of practicing with McDyess and Timmy could really mold him and if he stays healthy, I think they’d really know what they have with him, for better or worse.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:20 am
I agree with Williams and Hairston making the team. Haislip and Bogans have been less than impressive so far, especially Haislip for me. He just looks lost a lot of the time. I’m more optimistic about Haislip or maybe I like the idea of a super athletic 3-4 hybrid with some range.
The thing that makes me kind of lean towards Bogans is that Bonner and Ratliff are free agents next year, but Tiago should be on his way and Blair will be more worthy of minutes. Actually, Mahinmi should be as well. Our front court just seems so stacked that keeping Bogans and just letting Haislip go might be the best option.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:28 am
If Bogans isn’t clearly more talented (in some way) than Hairston or Finley, the Spurs have no reason to keep him around. Both Hairston and Finley know the offense, the team, and the coaching staff better.
It seems clear Haislip’s ceiling is a lot higher than Bogans, why not keep him around a little longer and see what happens? Perhaps Bonner gets traded mid-season and we need him.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:34 am
I think Mahinmi has a bright future as a floor-running big man throwing down Tony Parker’s ally-oops. He looks a little out of place right now, but the face of our team is changing quickly and I would rather not fight that change. We are going to be running a lot more, especially with the signing of RJ, and I think Ian will have a place on our roster.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I feel like the youngsters should be a priority here. The roster is so deep right now that keeping veterans at the end of the bench makes little sense if it means letting go of younger, more talented players with higher ceilings. Unless Bogans has some hidden attractive or Pop knows his shooting will get better, there is no reasons to keep him around. As for the number of players, the same logic applies: We have several players on their last year of their contracts so we need to develop their replacements now that we have them and not start looking for them next year so they can be ready not for another 2 or 3.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
I think your Toro’s argument is reasonable, but we must not overlook the fact that D-League teams are for profit entities which sell a unique product first and foremost.
Toro’s patrons pay to see emerging players like some pay for a start-up band’s CD after a performance at the neighborhood bar. There’s something special about the possibility of being able to one day say: “I discovered them before they were on the radio.”
Like the neighborhood pub capitalizing on a small sliver of the music market, D-League team owners seek to do the same in the basketball context. True, the nba’s visibility in smaller markets may be enhanced, or an common investor’s other enterprises may benefit (e.g., Spurs), but D-League team owners are subject to their own business priorities first.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
I think it was a stupid move to sign Bogan’s to a contract after seeing how well Hairston performed in Vegas. I gut tells me that either Hairston or Williams will not make the team and will become the next “Captain Jack” on one of our rivals squad.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Sorry, “my” gut not “I” gut……
October 15th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
I agree with Juan. I’d like us to keep Williams and drop Bogans. If we do sit Parker on back to backs (or play him less). it would be useful to have a point guard like that.
He seems to see the court very well. I hope that he and hairston make the team. I just haven’t seen or heard of the same energy from Bogans that I see and hear from Hairston and Williams. I wonder if part of that is that his contract is guaranteed so he thinks that he’s already on the roster.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Hairston is a lock and I hope he gets some time behind Jefferson.
I am not sold on Williams. After watching him play a few games and after summer league I think he has a tendency to make bad decision and dribble WAY to much. He is also turning the ball over a lot. 3 times in 18 minutes in two straight games.
That being said he has certainly impressed me more than Bogans has. Neither his defense or his offense has been clicking and he was almost forcing shots last night against the Clippers.
At this point I would rather keep Williams. His ceiling is higher than Bogans. We know his ceiling already.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
hairston is for sure staying, and he’s going to get minutes….and as for haislip…there isn’t anyone im more excited about seeing in a spurs uniform than him, at least anyone with a ? mark by them..obviously not blair…after seeing the video on youtube of Haislilp…and knowing that he understand how to play team basketball and team defense…i really want to see him play against the other bigs in the west…
October 15th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I thought Haislip had been signed to a guaranteed contract?
October 15th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Guaranteed contracts mean they have to be paid not played nor on the roster. They can be bought out or waived. But I might be wrong.
October 15th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Players on guaranteed deals can still be let go. Unlike a un-guaranteed deals however, the team must fulfill the terms of contract.
Players like Bogan and Hailslip can still be let go, provided the Spurs are willing to stomach the loss. Interesting issue with Bogans is whether the league picks up part of his deal if he is let go since he singed a vet. minimum deal. Maybe someone here has insight?
October 15th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Wonderful article, and I love the enthusiasm for Hairston. I think it would be crazy not to extend Hairston at least until the trade deadline, and then the team can see who is a player and who needs more work. At that point, they can try to make some trades to clarify the situation. Easier said then done, I realize, but we’re going all out for a title and we need to get the most out of our bench. Cutting Hairston hurts us next year for sure when Finley retires, but it could possibly hurt us this year as well if Finley begins to break down.
Otherwise, what’s the point of the Toros? If they’re worried about money then why own a farm team if you aren’t going to use it?
October 15th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
It’s ridiculous reading other Spurs Blogs that constantly call for Manihimmi to be waived or not played, it really puts their credibility into question. We’re talking about a 7 foot, athletic, big man. I’m not saying he’s the next Admiral or anything but he def is an asset.
October 15th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Also I still wouldn’t be surprised to see a trade, Roger Mason has looked good but remember their is almost no way he is a Spur next year due to us not having his Bird Rights and the MLE likely being used for Tiago Splinter. This is Mason’s last chance to get PAID so I doubt he does a deal with a Spur Discount in mind. So maybe the Spurs package Mason and Bonner or Finley for Shane Battier.
This free’s up a roster spot and minutes for Malik, Boogans, and possibly Williams.
October 15th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
I think signing Bogans was a mistake given the amount of young talent we have. I respect him and what he can bring, but Hairston simply has more to offer and is more familiar with our system. I don’t see us regretting cutting Williams the way I could if we cut Hairston.
Although Haislip hasn’t shown much, I think it’s safe to say that once he’s comfortable with our system, he could bring a lot for us. I agree with everything said about Mahinmi. He’s a lock on the roster, and could turn into a valuable asset, whether or not he stays another season with us.
October 15th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Its almost funny becasue 2 weeks ago i liked the signing of Bogans. I also like Hairston though. So I guess I have to go back on my word.
October 15th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
@ Cory Clay
What makes you think that Houston would part with Battier? I’d like to see that happen, but I don’t see why Houston would make such a trade.
October 15th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
This was a great post, and yet at first I was mostly surprised that DeJuan is already so firmly away from “the end of the roster”.
October 15th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
I’ve actually had the opportunity to see every open Spurs basketball function/game this preseason in San Antonio and I’ll probably be heading to Austin for our “road game”. Some thoughts:
Curtis Jerrells has been the bane of my preseason existence. Maybe it’s not his fault. Maybe he doesn’t know that we all know that he’s only training camp fodder; so that when he keeps his dribble alive for a good chunk of the shot clock we’re all just wishing he’d get the ball to Mahinmi, Hairston or Blair in their spots to see them produce.
Against the Clippers at the end of the game he forced the drive with plenty of time on the clock and several superior options. To not even get a good look off, just terrible decison making. I know many of you are thinking Austin but right now he seems like the type of point guard that could develop but at the cost of the development of others. Given our two varsity point guards, I’d rather have a generic system point that’s not going to get in the way of developing our wings and bigs.
Haislip irks me at times too. He has a nice looking jumper but from what I’ve seen so far it just doesn’t have range that extends to the NBA three-point line. Hollinger and other stat geeks will point out that it usually takes a year for European players to become acclimated to the NBA three-point line so maybe that’s the case here. But right now he just seems to be more comfortable with long two’s then threes…a very inefficient shot. But maybe stepping in will allow him to crash the boards or provide less time in which to turn it over. He keeps favoring a between the legs crossover but I’ve never seen it get him anywhere. At best he’s been out of control with it, at worst: a turnover.
Marcus Williams. Sorry, I’m just not seeing it. Right now I see his ceiling as a replacement level player. Someone who eventually won’t beat you but not exactly help either. Only right now he’s young and at times he does hurt you. If it’s a numbers game he has no Austin eligibility and so he’s out in my opinion.
If we’re going all in, we can’t afford to carry dead weight on our roster and so far Keith Bogans has played that role. Money is money, but if he holds a roster spot over Hairston I’ll be extremely disappointed.
Hairston has been one of my favorites to watch so far. With the exception of one brief stint I never see the guy out of control. There hasn’t been a matchup or situation that seems too big for him. The guy has just a bit of elusiveness to go with his athletic ability and has been a fairly good finisher in traffic. Aside from some promising defense he’s also suprised with a bit of playmaking ability (though not a point-forward) as he’s racked up a few games with multiple assists and has shown some good court vision.
And Mahinmi is here all season so I’m with you in seeing what he can do early. Maybe letting him pick up the second part of a back to back while one of the vets rests. So far he has been foul prone, but half the league falls into that category with the replacement refs. Not sure how many illegal screens have been called. Just that I remember a few on him. And yes, he has little in the way of post moves or footwork. But in the Clips game his ability to just turn, face and blow by was enough to earn a few free throw trips. Against some of the less athletic, savvy bigs, I’d say this is a decent bread and butter move until he can develop something else for more complicated defensive schemes.
One last note unrelated to bubble players: George Hill can shoot. He can shoot threes. He can hit pull up jumpers off his dribble. He looks confident doing it. So long as this isn’t a preseason hot streak this is HUGE for his development because the only was he gets significant run on a Spurs championship team is if he can shoot well enough to play next to Tony (the other development that leads to playing time is an injury to Parker, in which case we’re screwed).
October 15th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
I think the Bogans signing was a mistake, he was obviously looking to land a bigger contract. He seems happy to get a paid vacation, unfortuneatly at this point I think it behooves the Spurs to oblige him. Williams early inconsistencey was due to his trying to do to much to fast. In the Clippers game he let the game come to him and he looked much better. It would be a shame to see him go to another team and blossom into a good point forward. Haislip is still adjusting to our system his up side is worth giving him some time. At this point only NBA playing time will let these players grow and meet their potential.
October 15th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Good article Timothy Varner. I agree with most of your analysis. With all the talent the spurs have in camp, it’s both fun and painful speculating who get to stay and who doesn’t. In my opinion the players most likely to be cut or assigned to the Toros are Curtis Jerrells and Marcus Williams. It pains me to see Marcus Williams not make the roster but he’s only had one convincing game. Unfortunately that is not enough With all the talent on the current roster. The player who has most improved his stock is Malik Hairston both in summer league and the preseason; he subsequently has earned rave reviews from RC, Coach Pop and TP. Marcus Haislip and Ian Mahinmi continue to be enigmas. The spurs need to keep both of them (and pickup Ian’s contract option for next year), they have a lot of potential and come at bargain prices. If their potential does not materialize in the first half of the season their contracts make them easy pieces to trade. Let’s keep in mind the luxury tax is calculated at the end of the season, if the spurs want to shed salaries they can wait for the trade deadline to do that. Additionally, Coach Pop in one of his interviews talked about his preference for a 15 man roster because it facilitates high quality practice sessions in the regular season, where injured, sick or players needing rest can be subbed. I’m 50-50 on Keith Bogans especially cos the spurs only pay 800k of his veteran-minimum, 1M guaranteed contract. The NBA picks up the balance of 200k. You can either cut him before the season begins or move him before the trade deadline.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
I think the Spurs should use and give the last roster spot to Hairston in my opinion, we can still make deals at the February deadline if we felt like a roster change is needed.
It’s also important to point out that even with a guaranteed contract, Bogans has been a disappointment so far.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
I still believe that all of these signings will result in a trade coming a couple days before the trade deadline. Bogans, mahinmi,jerrels, and williams for someone else. I can’t see mahinmi jerrels or williams ever getting enough minutes to become elite with the tiago splitter signing coming soon next season. Parker and hill are still very young and only one more is needed at pg behind them, so I really think that there will be a big trade right before the deadline. Just my thoughts
October 15th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Zainn,
With all due respect, Jerrells or Williams might not even make it to the Spurs roster. Currently, we only have spot left and that might go to Hairston.
I agree that a trade may happen before the deadline (if the Spurs felt the need). But it might involve Bogans, Bonner or Finley. Also I think Mahinmi can play better given the minutes. He needs floor time and confidence.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
@Vaughn
It has been speculated that the Rockets are planning on making a run at Chris Bosh or one of the other unrestricted free agents next summer so a trade of Battier bringing expiring contracts in return allows Houston to shed another 6-7 million off of their cap and allows them to really attempt to make a splash next summer.
The Spurs have to decide how hard they would be willing to chase after Battier. Like I’ve said, unless Mason has a horrible year he will not be a Spur next year, the Spurs just don’t have the cap flexibility to sign him, they will already be over the salary cap and since they don’t have Mason’s Bird Rights the decision basically becomes give a large portion of the MLE to Mason or Tiago Splitter and if all goes as plan it’s a no brainer that Splitter is getting that contract.
Would the Spurs package Mason, Bonner, and Manihimi for Battier and then use the free roster spots to keep both Malik Hairston and Marcus Williams? I dont know. A trade of Finley in Mason’s place also works along with Bonner and Manihimi but I don’t know how much Houston values the potential of our French project but again they do shed salary.
Bottom line even if the Spurs and Rockets don’t make a trade with each other I would not be surprised at all to see Mason and Battier moved by seasons end.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
I actually had to check how many players were currently on the Spurs roster because I couldn’t remember it off the top of my head. There are 18 players signed, including De Colo playing in Europe. That means 2 players out (at least) between Bogans, Jerrells, Hairston and Williams — indeed for me it’s pretty clear Mahinmi has too much upside to be cut (or even not extended), and the Spurs didn’t sign Haislip just to pay the luxury tax on his contract (if I remember correctly he was signed to a multi-year guaranteed contract?). Maybe the strategy was to show that Haislip could play at the NBA level and trade him?
Out of the 4 players for 2 seats, Hairston looks like he’s here to stay. Jerrells will probably get cut soon, which means for me the issue really boils down to: Williams or Bogans? Bogans probably has the edge right now because of his guaranteed contract (even of the NBA picks up part of the tab, don’t the Spurs still have to pay luxury tax on that contract?).
I can never remember what the assignment rules are for the Toros, would it be possible to assign Williams there for another year w/o having him in the group of 15?
October 16th, 2009 at 12:44 am
Could the Rockets trade us Battier as a thank you for giving them Scola? Hmmmm….
October 16th, 2009 at 3:51 am
Will,
We haven’t signed Nando but we still have rights on him so he’s still pretty much with the Spurs.
Currently we have 17 players in the lineup (14 guaranteed). If I’m not mistaken Haislip is signed for 2 years, but I don’t think he’s gonna be traded. He was signed by the Spurs to defend ‘mobile 4′s’ like Dirk and Odom. He’s been disappointing, but considering his athletic ability and his contract, I think the Spurs will stick with him. He just need more time to adjust to the system.
I think your right about Jerrells getting cut. So that leaves us between Hairston and Williams. (Bogans have guaranteed contract).
I also agree with you that Hairston should stay.
Regarding Williams, he can play for the Toros but it’s not actually an assignment. If he ends up playing for the Toros, we loose his rights and another NBA team can sign him if they like.
Hope that helps….
October 16th, 2009 at 7:04 am
Said it before and saying it again, Mahinmi according to the article in S.A Express is not that instinctive a b-ball player. I, personally, don’t think that can be taught or learned or over time, like improving one’s shot can or learning one’s teammates tendencies in a pick and roll can for example.
Some players are physically gifted but lack certain feel or b-ball IQ. Kwame Brown comes formost to mind, #1 overall pick, but lacking.
I measure Mahinmi against drafted peers(2 spots ahead or later in the same draft)like David Lee, Ronny Turiaf, Jason Maxiell, Marcin Gortat and Brandon Bass and he seems a lesser player. Even Andre Blatche, Ryan Gomes, and Amir Johnson seem to have more upside.
I can’t see the Spurs extending his contract.
October 16th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Robby, we can still waive/release/buyout Bogans, and i think that would be best for the team. Why give the 15th roster spot to a vet with no upside? That 15th spot needs to go to one of our projects, like Williams. Our number 15 will barely play (and therefore the win NOW argument, to me, flies out the window for that particular spot), but will gain from being around the team and being in the practices. Realistically, the Spurs will probably use at most a 11 man rotation throughout the year (not counting the nights our vets get off). Duncan, McDyess, Blair, Bonner, Ratliff, RJ, Finley, Mason, Hill, Ginobili, and Parker are going to be the primary players. There will not be much playing time left after that, and we gain nothing from Bogans sitting around at the end of our bench. If we keep Williams instead, he gets to learn and we keep his rights.
October 16th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Come on guys, the Spurs are not eating Bogans contract, have we all forgotten that Bogans is exactly the type of player Popovich loves?
Plus Bogans, known as being a defender will get much more respect form officials if he is guarding a Kobe, Roy, etc.
My hope is we keep Malik Hairston and like one of the earlier comments wrote, give him a good 15ish minutes a night for half the season to save Finley for a nice long playoff run!
October 16th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Ian lacks feel, touch and b-ball smarts and that severely limits his upside. Blair is just the opposite with limited physicality but preternatural feel/touch/smarts to temper/shape his from-hell aggression. Ian’s not worth the tax hit to cross your fingers in hopes he turns out to be more than he really can be. He’s not critical to anything now or the future.
The Raptors are craving an “energy” big to replace Pops Mensah-B, why not trade Ian to them for a little money and a second round draft pick (2011)?
October 16th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I AGREE MALIK HARSTON IS PLAYING GOOD ENOUGH TO EARN MINUTES IN ROTATION. HE REMINDS ME OF MARIO ELIE, AND I AM IMPRESS THAT HE IS A GOOD OFFENSIVE REBOUNDER. SPURS WERE TO QUICK TO SIGN BOGANS AND I DONT THINK THEY CUT GUARANTEED MONEY.IF FINLEY DID NOT COME BACK, HAIRSTON WOULD MAKE THE TEAM. I DONT THINK MAHIMNI IS READY THIS YEAR,UNLESS INJURY OCCURS. POP IS ALWAYS LOYAL TO VETERAN PLAYERS BUT I HOPE HE PLAYS DEJUAN BLAIR, THIS KID IS READY TO EXPLODE. THIS IS KIND YOUG TALENT U NEED IN GAMES THAT IS HUNGRY TO SUCCEED.LOOK AT BIG BABY THE LAST 2 YRS FOR CELTICS IN PLAYOFFS. BUT DEJUAN BLAIR IS BETTER AND SPECIAL. I THINK THIS KID IS IN MOLD OF A CHARLES BARKLEY. NOT AS EXPLOSIVE BUT LONGER ARMS TO SCORE AND REBOUND.
October 16th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Yes, but would Pop love him 5 years from now? Thats what i’m saying. Bogans won’t get much playing time, so is it worth keeping him at the expense of Williams, who could be special? I say no. George Hill can do everything Bogans can, and better. Hill’s defense is one of the biggest reasons he got playing time last year, and he’ll be even better at that this year.
October 16th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
I would be shocked if Hairston doesn’t make the team. I would also be surprised if the Spurs decide to eat a guaranteed contract. So that means Williams will be a free agent, unfortunately, and he could be another Raja Bell situation.
As you know, Bell was in Spurs camp and there was no room for him on the roster. Pop sent him over to Larry Brown in Philly and he developed into a nice talent.
Maybe I’m just being a homer and rooting for the Spurs pick in Williams. Either way, I’m not expecting much from Bogans (similar to Ron Mercer’s time with the Spurs). I think Hairston’s play will keep Bogans in a suit.
October 16th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
SpursfanSteve,
I’m with you on keeping Williams, if a buyout can be done, that would be nice. But still it depends on what the Spurs plans are on Williams or Hairston. (remember there are speculations that the Spurs might leave the 15th spot open).
Regarding Bogans, He’s been a disappointment so far but my guess is he’s still adjusting to the system and maybe he’s a little anxious to show what he can bring to the table.
He’s an NBA veteran and prospect of him as poor man’s Bowen still intrigues me, but when it comes to upside no doubt Williams gets my vote.
October 16th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
I think Hairston will make both the team and the rotation. If the Spurs choose to keep 15, really the decision comes down to Bogans or Williams (i’m thinking Haislip’s spot is safe), and since no team really ever plays 15 players, why lose a young player who can contribute down the road for a vet who isnt going to get playing time and has no long term potential? I would honestly rather see them cut both and leave the spot open than keep Bogans. I just see no need for him on the team. If we keep the spot open, then at least we could maybe take on 2 for 1 if we needed to. We dont need another Jacque Vaughn at the end of the bench.
October 16th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
on a separate note, I’m looking at the box score, its shortly before halftime, and Bonner has been credited with a block. is that the first of his career? Wish the game was on TV, and i hope it was Shaq he stuffed.
October 16th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
update: it was shaq, it was clean, and it made my day.
http://www.nba.com/video/games/spurs/2009/10/16/0010900071_cle_sas_1h.nba/index.html
AWESOME!! talk about good basketball instincts. he may not be the most athletic guy out there- but he knows what he is doing. When he just has a role to play and isnt being depended on as much as we had to rely on him last year, the guy is good.
October 16th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
lol that will definitely be on youtube pretty soon. Man I don’t think the spurs have ever had this many roster problems in a big while now. I also agree about the chris bosh situation and how shane battier could be traded for cap relief and chris bosh. Could be possible due to the fact that the rockets might not even make it to the playoffs this season. But t mac’s contract ends in 2010 I think so there is a chance that shane would not be traded if houston didn’t keep t mac ( which is a controversial issue).
October 17th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
I wonder how this discussion would go if Finley were added to the “End of the Roster” list. No disrespect to Finley intended, but, I question how much he has to offer the Spurs this year given the team makeup. I believe that the Spurs have a chance to contend plus add young talent to the team. I don’t know the cost for releasing Finley (assuming a trade cannot be arranged) so it may be prohibitive. That said, we could keep Hairston, Manihimi, and Williams if the Spurs keep 15. With the emphasis to rest older players and even Parker, there will be minutes available
October 17th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
@Big Whit -
Finley shot a career best from behind the arc. Finley has a lot to offer.
He’ll definitely see a noticable decrease in minutes. But….Now that the team has depth, you can hide Finley’s negatives (lack of athleticism creates defensive mismatches with him).
However, he’s a team leader and is clutch. You can stick him in the game during situational moments. He can also teach the young guys.
You don’t cut Finley. Spurs have always had a strong veteran dynamic in their championship teams. He’ll now play more of the Kerr role from 02-03 though (although still has more than Kerr back then)
October 17th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
@Grego
I agree 100%
Finley has gotten noticebly more comfortable every season he has been a Spur! Has hit big shot after big shot for this team when it mattered most. (That means playoffs Mr. Mason)
October 18th, 2009 at 9:55 am
@ Grego and Cory – I understand your points and I can’t argue that Finley has not been key in the past. (Not to mention that the Sunday Express news has an article on Finley that hits on those same points.) I question what he has left in the tank this year. I just feel that adding youth and athleticism is important to the Spurs and we plenty of senior leadership. My preference is a trade. I would not give up keeping Hairston or Manihimi to retain Finley, and Williams is on the bubble in that respect.
October 18th, 2009 at 11:38 am
if we get rid of Bogans, we can keep all 3 anyway, plus Finley. I’m sure i am coming off as incredibly anti-Bogans, i think he is a solid role player, unfortunately i just dont see any opening for that role on our team. I just dont think we need him, now or later.
October 18th, 2009 at 11:53 am
@Big Whit
If there were a trade (very unlikely these days), I would rather have Mason/Bonner leaving (unless they needed all 3 expiring contracts). They are the more attractive talent.
Mason likely won’t be back with the roster additions and Hairston seems to fit better with his athleticism and ability to play D. Then you also have Manu and Hill who can come in as the backups.
Bonner is a nice to have with limited minutes, but if it got you the kind of big forward you were searching for, then it is worth it.
Ian is here to stay. He needs to stay since Spurs are not young up front and Splitter is still an unknown to come over. He’s also shown that upside in recent games. If the real refs comeback, he might not be as foul prone as the replacement refs are.
Hairston looks like almost a lock. Spurs have let him start in a preseason game and play big minutes in all games. I don’t see how the Spurs would let him go, because he plays Pop’s favorite thing, defense.
October 18th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
What is going on in the mind of the people on here proposing a trade for Shane Battier?
#1 Why would Houston make that trade?
#2 You realize Battier and R. Jefferson play the same position, right? Obviously you don’t because you wouldn’t be posting the nonsense you are posting if you did.
Great blog, mostly good comments.
October 18th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
even As a huge hater of Finleys defense, I have to agree that Grego has a Great point, his deficits are now offset by rest of roster. Finley is more of a clutch shooter now than any of the rest of the guys listed will ever be.
If Bogans can be a superior lockdown defender, I say keep him. But if his D isn’t over the top better than others, better to have a less experienced but balanced athlete.
Similar to Bonner. Weird, but Now that he’s not starting. He really can probably have more confidence & help more.
October 20th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
I think Hairston, Williams, Bogans, and Mahinmi should fill slots 12-15 and Jerrells and Haislip will be cut. They’ll be offered non-roster slots with the Toros, and Jerrells may accept that, but I think Haislip is headed for euro leagues. Which of the 4 who make it get slot 12 is hard to say, but I think it will be Bogans. Hairston is playing better for sure, but he needs the playing time he can get in Austin. Instead, Bogans will languish in the 12th slot on the team, getting garbage time minutes, and the occasional game with real minutes. With Ginobili, Mason, Finley, and Hill all capable of playing the 2 position, it’s hard to see Bogans getting much playing time unless he can assert himself as a serious stopper a la Bruce Bowen. I think the Spurs hope he can be coached into contributing on D at Bowen’s level, but I don’t think he’s there yet.
The real surprise story of the pre-season is not Hairston, Williams, or Mahinmi, but DeJuan Blair, who is practically contending for a starting spot. He won’t start, but I suspect he’ll end up being the first post player off the bench.
Hairston will get a callup at the first injury to a perimeter player, or will get Bogans slot on the team if Bogans continues to disappoint.
October 20th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Well Finley just proved that he still has it and warrants play time.
Although I don’t expect either Finley or Bonner to be in the starting lineup by the All Star break.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:42 am
Grego - you were right. I humbly withdraw my earlier comment!
October 21st, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Grego - You were right. I humbly withdraw my previous comment.
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