The Manu Ginobili free agent conversation, so far

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Back on March 11, I suggested that Manu Ginobili’s recent strong play would have the effect of complicating his upcoming contract negotiations with the San Antonio Spurs. Quoting myself:

This [Manu Ginobili's return to form] complicates Ginobili’s impending free-agent status, and so does another salient fact entirely beyond his control: only one team can sign LeBron James.

Put differently, several teams enjoy the luxury of significant cap space this summer, but the Spurs are not one of them. San Antonio is financially strapped and could be forced into a hard decision if a ready-to-spend team turns to Ginobili as a free-agent consolation prize. That, and the possibility that someone will include the promise to bid for Ginobili as part of their sales pitch to a max-level free agent.

The unique intangibles derived from winning the Euroleague, an Olympic gold medal and multiple NBA titles is a nice fallback for teams that fail (or simply can’t afford) to acquire two max-level free agents. Some clever GM could parlay Ginobili’s resurgence into a relatively inexpensive but nevertheless compelling selling point in pursuit of the market’s biggest prize.

The question before the Spurs is not simply the judgment of how much, and for how long. There is a prior question. Who will the Spurs be bidding against in their attempt to re-sign Ginobili?

Earlier this week, Peter Vecsey wrote a love song to Manu Ginobili that attempted to play matchmaker between Ginobili and the Knicks.

While the Knicks’ silo of salary cap room has fans hypnotized into believing the summer signing LeBron James and/or Dwyane Wade isn’t hallucinatory, I fantasize of soon seeing Manu Ginobili trippin’ the night fantastic for the home team at the Garden.

My take, of course, is slightly different than Vecsey’s: Ginobili could be the cute carrot Donnie Walsh dangles in front of LeBron James to make him think twice about shunning the Knicks.

This morning Jeff McDonald chimed-in with word that San Antonio wants Ginobili back, and, Ginobili, for his part, sort of, kind of wants to return to the Spurs.

“I’m not going to be unemployed,” Ginobili said. “I don’t hold any hard feelings for anybody. It’s a business, so you’ve go to do what you think is best for the franchise, and for you.”

Manu Ginobili’s will likely add postseason gate revenue to the San Antonio Spurs’ bottom line in the coming weeks, but with each dominant performance he’s also adding tax dollars to the Spurs 2010-11 cap.  But, of course, if the Spurs lose Ginobili’s draw at the gate next season, it’s money lost the other direction. That’s not good either. Peter Holt is in a hard spot.

And now John Krolik has joined the conversation. His take is from the gut, but it bears resemblance to Kevin Pelton’s recent statistical analysis of the 2010 free agent class. Pelton argues that after LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, Manu Ginobili is the next best player of the 2010 free agent class.  If not for age, I would actually rank Ginobili alongside Chris Bosh, rather than just behind. Pelton:

There are several surprising numbers here, probably none more unexpected than the top player in this group, Manu Ginobili. Outside of the top three players, Ginobili is the only other free agent projected to be worth double-digit WARP next season despite turning 33.

It’s a terrible cliché, but it seems entirely apt here: Rumors of Ginobili’s demise have been greatly exaggerated. In part, he probably is hurt by a comparison to his own younger self. Ginobili is no longer at that level, but he had plenty of room to take a step back and remain a valuable contributor. Let’s compare him to Johnson, for example.

Player      Win%   WARP    TS%    Usg   Reb%   Ast%   SB%
---------------------------------------------------------
Ginobili    .647    6.3   .555   .243    7.6    7.8   3.7
Johnson     .544    5.4   .542   .267    7.3    5.6   1.6

Johnson is known as one of the league’s most versatile guards, yet Ginobili has him beat across the board except in terms of the ability to create his own shot. Does that explain why Ginobili is at the top of the group and Johnson the bottom, especially when the latter is four years younger? Not entirely, but in terms of players who could make an immediate impact by changing teams next year, Ginobili belongs in the discussion.

Krolik says the same thing, with his usual intelligence:

Last weekend, Manu Ginobili put up a combined 75 points in wins against two of the best three teams in basketball. A week earlier, Ginobili scored a combined 58 points in wins against Cleveland and Boston. Manu’s missed one game in the past couple of months. That was the game the Spurs lost to the Nets. He’s got the 2nd-best PER among shooting guards this season, and the 9th-best PER of any player in the league. And it’s not like this is a fluke year for him — Manu’s had a PER mark of 22 or higher in his last six seasons. On top of all that, if you believe in the “proven winner” thing, Manu Ginobili is definitely a proven winner.

Here’s the kicker. Manu Ginobili is a free agent in 2010, and there doesn’t seem to be anywhere near as much speculation surrounding him as there should be…Manu Ginobili is going to quietly make the team that signs him very happy while the rest of the league goes for broke chasing marquee names

Krolik is spot-on.  I suspect the league’s best GMs would read his assessment and ‘amen’ and ‘uh-huh’ themselves into a huffy pant. And, somewhat strangely, I suspect that many casual fans would shake their heads and demur. “Don’t you know how old Manu Ginobili is? And that Rudy Gay is pregnant with potential?”

But despite such protests, there really isn’t an honest metric that would teach us to value Rudy Gay or Joe Johnson more than Manu Ginobili.

When folks knock the free agent value of Manu Ginobili–and trust me, they do–they’re floating their discontent beneath the balloon of perceived entertainment value. Rudy Gay is better because he’s more fun to watch.

And that’s the part I really don’t get.

Set aside the fact the Manu Ginobili is a much better player than all but a few of his free agent class peers. Forget that for a moment.  If you’re just paying money to watch an exciting basketball player, and not one who helps your team win, would you rather watch Manu Ginobili or Rudy Gay? Manu Ginobili or Joe Johnson?  If I’m a GM whose interest primarily, perhaps exclusively, lies in improving my team’s draw at the gate, it’s hard to pass on Ginobili, unless, of course, you’re doing so in favor of James, Wade, or, perhaps, Stoudemire. But I would never pass over Ginobili for Joe Johnson or Rudy Gay. No disrespect, but they’re not in the same class of talent.

In other words, Manu Ginobili will not only improve your basketball team, he’ll make it–in a completely independent evaluation from wins added–much more entertaining. The man is a nightly highlight reel.

Taken together, I’m with Krolik. Tell me again why Manu Ginobili isn’t a marquee free agent target?

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  • sf at the ymca

    I have a cost effective solution:
    Let Manu go and sign me. Sure, I suck, but I would be willing to take his minutes for the low low price of 2 million a year…

  • manufan

    Trade RJ’s expiring contract for draft pick in the offseason and that is gonna take 16 mill of the books. 16 mill is more than enough to resign Manu and bring in Tiago. Start Hairston at the 3 and get him backup via free agency.

  • Hobson13

    manufan
    April 6th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    “Trade RJ’s expiring contract for draft pick in the offseason and that is gonna take 16 mill of the books. 16 mill is more than enough to resign Manu and bring in Tiago. Start Hairston at the 3 and get him backup via free agency.”

    League rules prohibit that. If we trade RJ’s contract it must be for a piece (s) that add up to around $12 mil at the least. If what you were saying could be done, everyone would do it.

  • Tyler

    manufan –

    I wish it were that simple.

  • Kevin

    Anyone see NBA Fanhouse ranked Manu #12 in the “Top 50 Free Agents this Summer”?? I know they were including guys who could possibly opt out and such… but behind Paul Pierce? Really?

  • Hobson13

    A couple of things:

    1) Sure Manu has played crazy for the past month, but lets not get carried away with everything. Lebron, Bosh, Johnson, and Wade haven’t been hampered by injury for the past year and a half. This is not lost on all the GM’s in the league. His market value will take some sort of hit with his injury history and his comittment to the National Team. This however is good news for the Spurs. I can’t see anyone crazy enough to give him $12-$14 mill/season.

    2) If Lebron, Bosh, Wade, and Johnson all sign with their respective teams (which is very possible) who will be left to offer Manu big dough? New York? New Jersey? Maybe LA Clippers? Those teams have been cellar dwellers for YEARS!

    3) Judging by these posts, many have forgotten that Parker is also a free agent next summer along with RJ and many think there’s a greater possibility for him to bolt than Manu. Provided we resign Gino, it would not be entirely illogical to look into Parker’s trade value in order to get a big to help Duncan or to get a few younger pieces. In fact, we could get much better pieces back from a Tony trade than from an RJ trade. Let RJ’s contract expire and then sign him for say $6-7$ mill/year. I know many of you won’t like to hear that, but after the last month you have to admit that the Spurs can win without Tony.

  • Jim Henderson

    Tyler
    April 6th, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Thanks for fleshing out all the financial angles. It’s very easy for us fans to overlook the harsh realities of cobbling a team together.

    El Ganzo
    April 6th, 2010 at 7:30 am

    Thanks for bringing the un-business-like “fan” in us all down to earth. Nice job!

    It’s great to see that many of you are in varying degrees grappling with the “business” aspects of improving the franchise over the short and long term. Oftentimes a fan’s first inclination is to respond to great individual play, exciting “personalities”, winning every game regardless of why or how. As such, what fans often miss is looking under the hood for what makes a team’s engine not only start everyday, but at the underlying maintenance that must be attended to on a regular basis for the engine to run strong, smooth, and with great “success” for “many” years to come. And the fact is, sometimes that “engine” needs to acquire critical, NEW parts to allow optimal functioning for the longest period of time possible.

    With that metaphor, and from an amateur mechanic, I’d like to leave with with a few thoughts about the Manu re-signing issue:

    – sometimes it’s a smart thing to trade in (i.e., sign & trade) a favorite part BEFORE it loses its value and begins to deteriorate, or at some point malfunctions – otherwise at the most inopportune time one could be left stranded.

    – there are KEY parts to an engine that without which the engine will not perform to its maximum (i.e., if we do not get another talented, TALL, shot-blocking defender in the paint next to Duncan, it is very unlikely that we will get a title again during TD’s closing window, and perhaps for many years to come).

    – we cannot afford to overpay for a favorite, but relatively “old” part so that it precludes us from obtaining/affording the KEY part that is necessary for the engine to function optimally over a longer period of time (i.e., that’s why getting someone like Splitter, or better, is crucial for the engines long-term success – if we cannot get him, we MUST aggressively pursue other options to obtain the KEY part – yet I don’t hear much talk about this).

    – it is usually not wise to trade in new & well-functioning parts (e.g., Hill, Blair), or overpriced parts providing under-performance (RJ) – it’s generally a lose-win proposition. Perhaps giving a tune-up (RJ) before next years trade deadline will allow us to obtain something closer to fair value in return. We’ll see, but we CAN’T consider trading him in now because most buyers will not be willing to pay the price, and/or we’d end up with a defective part in the end.

    Any thoughts?

  • roc

    pop’s refusal to play (develop) ian might come to haunt the spurs in the playoffs and next year. don’t get me wrong, i love d.blair, but it’s painfully obvious against certain teams that he’s just WAY too small and pop’s refusal/stubbornness to acknowledge this has cost the spurs quite a few victories.

    it almost seems as if, after refusing to pick up ian’s extension, the decision was made to bury him on the bench… for what purpose? not to showcase him for free agency? b/c it can’t be that he isn’t capable of contributing… i think we’ve all seen when he does manage to get off the pine that he is productive. so what then? who know really but that half-assed excuse about ian’s excessive fouling is just lazy and insincere. this might just be one of those ‘pop is a genius and he knows best’ moments that ends up hurting the spurs in the short term and long term. if i were ian, would i want to come back to this franchise next year?

    this take on ian from tom ziller over at fanhouse:

    The Skinny: Mahinmi has played sparingly in the pros, having been injured in 2008-09 and usually hanging around on the bench or in the NBA D-League as a Spurs prospect. When he does play, he performs. He ranks as the third best player in D-League history according to PER, one of its most efficient players, a great shotblocker and rebounder. So why does he see only garbage time in San Antonio? Beats me. Someone needs to unleash him, though.

  • este

    Jim Henderson,

    What you say makes sense from a strategic X’s & O’s perspective but that isn’t what Peter Holt and the management group are going to care about. They have had trouble selling out the AT&T Center at times this season and if they do not re-sign Ginobili that will become an even bigger issue next season not to mention a drop in TV ratings which would mean a reduction in ad and sponsorship revenue. They can’t afford to lose the revenue that can be directly attributable to Manu’s popularity.

    The funny thing is that Pop went down this road before with David Robinson. Before Robinson signed his last deal with the Spurs they tried to low ball him and David refused to settle and made the Spurs look bad in front of fans who rightfully admired and appreciated him.

    In the end Robinson wound up getting the deal he wanted and the Spurs still took a PR hit for trying to low ball the savior of the franchise.

  • rj

    @ jim

    so……what is your opinion?

    and also what exactly are your credentials? your posts are very eloquent and well written. i’ll give a pass on the condesencion of your analogy.

    i suppose i speak from a fan’s standpoint, but it seems to me that manu will not let any sense of loyalty to the spurs franchise or the city of san antonio dictate his desicion. if he wanted to stay in s.a., i think he would have come out and said it. we and he knows it is just too tempting to finish a career possibly winning a title with the best player on the planet. can’t hate the guy wanting to go out with a bang rather than a pop and sizzle.

    i won’t hate on manu. i can understand, as jim pointed out, both perspectives on whether or not we should keep him. manu fills our seats and gives us an immediate chance to keep winning, but this team knows we need pieces for the future.

    i know it is a longshot, but that would be awsome if manu took a pay cut to stay with us so we can go get splitter or another piece to our current and future puzzle.

  • Bushka

    I can’t blame manu for not relenting and saying he’d give a hometown discount. The spurs had an opportunity to sign him up and decided it wasn’t a wise business decision to move forward at the time.

    If it’s business it’s business.

    As to the continued trading of the Frenchman.

    Why do we think it’s a good idea to just give up talent?

    There are 96 minutes available across two guard slots. If you play 32 per that’s three people. Would you prefer to have a guard rotation of TP, George (who is a combo guard leaning more toward the 2 than a combo guard leaning toward the 1), and hopefully Manu. Or would you prefer George + whatever scraps we can pick up for league minimum. If your trading TP away and you don’t bring back a PG we’re under done at the guard slots.

    If you trade TP away and bring back a PG…then what the hell is the point of trading him in the first place.

    I and many others have stated previously that TP works well within the spurs system. We are one of the best teams in the league in terms of passing the rock as a unit. We don’t rely on, nor do we want to be reliant upon a pure setting the table point guard. It would be a massive backward step.

    I’ll take a team that can create shots for itself by executing another to death rather than a team that needs a Steve Nash to get it’s shots for it.

    Thats the team that the spurs have been for the last decade. High IQ post play, making the extra pass playing excellent D, and being accomplished pick & roll executers.

    I don’t mind TP coming off the bench, I don’t mind Manu coming off the bench, I don’t mind anyone coming off the bench, just so long as we maintain that style of basketball.

  • Chris

    Something you need to keep in mind also is Manu said that he’ll listen to offers including those from Real Madrid and other good teams in Europe. If there isn’t any good team in the NBA that wants him for a decent amount I could still see him going to Europe. He said he would still consider Real Madrid.

  • Andre

    Manu is an absolute Legend

    FYI he is of Italian Parentage… his grand parents migrated to Argentina and he has dual citizenship.

  • sercb

    Ha ha ha..Please, dejen libre a Manu. I wanna see him playing with Scola or Delfino; and all you guys, franchise’s ‘fans’(?) will see. Jaj(you haven’t strong heart, you dont’t understant who win championships. You can only see when money says. That’s a poor view of sports.

  • Jim Henderson

    este
    April 6th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Fair points, but let’s agree on something: a basketball season is not a rock band on tour. Sure, Manu does a lot of intangibles and is fun to watch, but he’s not the only guy in the league that’s a fan-pleaser.

    The fact is, an FO’s number one priority is always to build a very competitive team that is a threat to win it all, year in and year out. If a “rock star” is a part of such a mix it’s a bonus, but it is in no way at the top of their thinking.

    The way the Spur system is structured is to have two talented bigs in the paint that are top-notch defenders, and at least one with excellent shot-blocking ability. Since TD is in decline, and is not a dominant shot-blocker anymore, we MUST have another TALL big next to TD in the paint that can defend & protect the rim. That’s the only way the Spurs get back to the finals, in my view. And it is this “being a true perennial threat” again for the title (getting to conference finals often, and a title 2-3 times a decade) that is most important to consistently filling up the AT&T center, as opposed to focusing all ones resources on signing a fading “rock star”, Manu, to an overly expensive contract, especially when considering his age and durability issues.

  • frankie buckets

    From what i hear kobe’s a big manu fan and i think it would be interesting to see him play for the lake show since in the triangle u dont need a true point they could roll out quite a formidable staring five!

  • GFoyle