Thinking Clearer About Amare



We’ve all had time to digest the rumor of the Spurs trading for Amare Stoudemire. And I’d like to think that after mulling it over, we’d have to agree it’s highly unlikely.

More likely, as commenter krista tipped us to, is the Spurs acting as a third team in an Amare Stoudemire deal, where they would not receive Stoudemire but act as a facilitator in the deal. WOAI’s Don Harris has something:

Two different NBA sources told me Tuesday the Spurs have come up in the Amar’e Stoudemire sweepstakes. Not that the Spurs would get Amar’e, but that they may be part of a multi-team deal to make it possible for Phoenix to move him.

The Nets, Bulls, Heat and Pistons are said to be the front-runners for Stoudamire. The Spurs may be burning up the lines trying to find something that’s going to work.

One scenario of the Spurs acting as the third team in an Amare trade would see the Spurs receive Tyrus Thomas of the Chicago Bulls and send Matt Bonner and Ian Mahinmi to the Suns. Phoenix would send Stoudemire to Chicago.

This is just one scenario in which there are many alternatives, but I feel like this is much more likely than the Spurs getting Stoudemire in a straight-up swap with Phoenix.

As you can tell from the comments on the previous post about the Stoudemire rumor, a lot of Spurs fans do not hold affectionate feelings for the Suns power forward.

But how do you think the Suns fans feel about Manu Ginobili?

Former Spur Robert Horry is public enemy #1 for Suns fans when it comes to the Spurs, for obvious reasons, but after that, much of their venom for the Spurs is directed at San Antonio’s beloved Manu. Acquiring Ginobili, who is on the down slope of his career, for a entering-his-prime talent like Stoudemire would be a hard sell for Steve Kerr to make to Suns fans.

Could it still happen? Of course, stranger things have occurred. But logic and finances make it highly unlikely that we’ll see Stoudemire in San Antonio in anything other than an opposing team’s jersey.

  • Cory Clay

    You can’t have it both way people. You can’t complain all day about small ball and then say that a trade of Jefferson and Amare as the principles wouldn’t help.

    I will be the first to admit Amare has his share of issues but him next to Duncan could be devastating, not to mention Duncan is the ultimate winner and team player and with Amare carrying the load on offense Timmy would have much more energy to exert on the defensive end.

    Like I said earlier it is laughable that so many would be against a trade bringing in Amare without giving up any of the big 3, are you serious? If over the summer somone told me we traded Bruce Bowen, Fab, Thomas, Manihimi, and our 2nd Rnd pick for Amare (the 08 All NBA 2nd Team & 07 All NBA 1st Team Center) I would not believe you.

    Also stop acting like Amare got all of his points from lobs and alley opps as if he was Tyson Chandler, while Amare does best in pick and roll situations he also a very acomplished outside shooter.

    I understand we have had some hotly contested battles against the Suns but don’t let that completly skew your perception of what this deal would do for the Spurs.

  • Ian

    Even if the Spurs acquire Amar’e, he earns about 34 mil this season and the next. It’s likely he’ll opt out next season, but if he does exercise his option, that comes to about 65 mil in total for the 4 highest-paid players in Spurs (I’m assuming Manu is traded and TD, TP & RJ kept here).

    Yeah, that will definitely work out.

  • Cory Clay

    @Ian, trading Manu for Amare isn’t likely. The more likely scenario would be a combination centered around Jefferson, so yeah that would work out.

  • krista

    Renato, Haislip is no longer with the Spurs. He asked for and was granted a release. He signed with a Greek team.

  • Ian

    @Cory Clay and who’s going to be the Spurs’ starting SF? Finley? Who’s going to play frickkin’ defense???

    Unless the Spurs can ship RJ + expiring contracts for Amar’e AND Jared Dudley (without giving up young talents like Hill or Blair), it will not work. And I seriously doubt that the Suns would want to part with Dudley.

  • Bushka

    Guys stop pumping up Tyrus Thomas’ tyres.

    He is not a great defender….
    He got written off by one of the more defensive minded coachs in todays game (Scott Skiles) who had chicago playing league leading level defence prior to getting the boot, and has since significantly upgraded the defensive statistics of Milaukee.

    Tyrus is all potential..but after three years he is still having the same issues he had as a first year pro.

    Firstly he has no jumpshot…at’s horrible and yet he cannot be convinced of this and continues to settle for mid range shots, he is exactly the kind of guy the spurs love to play against.

    Secondly he blows assignments and his effort level fluctuates in direct relation to how well his game is going on the offensive end. He is frustration incarnate.

    For someone who is at least 6’8 and has grasshopppers for legs his finishing at the rim is nothing short of dissapointing. He so often settles instead of taking it strong. If he had Dejaun Blairs kind of instinct and motor he would be a killing machine but you could say that of so many other players.

    Athleticism is not the holy grail.

    Timmy couldn’t jump over a box of matches.

  • Cory Clay

    @Ian, The Spurs would have a variety of options, the SF position is one of the most diverse in the league, right now as currently constructed the Spurs actually use Manu and Mason as SF’s with Jefferson playing a good amount of minutes as a PF.

    Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, a Spurs team with Amare would allow Duncan to focus a good amount of his energy on defense, along with Manu, George Hill and at times Bogans, we’d be covered on defensively on the perimeter and both Mcdyess and Ratliff are both above average defenders.

    Bonner and Finley would be used at times to stretch the floor, NEVER TO BE PLAYED AT THE SAME TIME.

    You’re telling me that’s not a team with a ton of flexibility and a potential powerhouse???
    Like Gob Bluth would say, COME ON!!!!!

  • Slartibast

    I doubt Milwaukee would do another trade with the Spurs, but if they feel like shedding their star player for a salary dump, I’d like to see the Spurs try to pick up Bogut and M’bah a Moute for Bonner, Finley, Bogans, Mahinmi, Hairston, and then Ratlif. While the Spurs are giving a lot of players up for those two, I think they’d be addressing two very important areas of weakness in their system: a lack of an additional intimidator in the paint and an athletic defender on the wing who can cover outside bigs. I also think that, given the recent performances of the players sacrificed, I think it would be a terrific bargain. Bogut could rebound and defend the paint well and Moute could defend athletic bigs while also being a great addition for small-ball. I think this trade would give the Spurs some great talent for a relatively low cost. What do you guys think?

  • SpursfanSteve

    I doubt very much the suns would take RJ.

    And nobody has done anything to dispel my belief that hes horrible for the locker room. If you cant be happy playing with Steve Nash, who can you be happy playing with? He’s going to stay disgruntled anywhere he goes until a team makes him THE man. Right now, Nash is the man in phoenix and thats why Amare wants out.

  • Kaveh

    Why can’t any of you understand that no one would want RJ for FREE! That is, if the Spurs were allowed by the NBA to trade RJ for a cup of soup to any team, no team would take it. NONE. Why? Because he is an average or below average NBA player getting paid a ridiculous salary.

    To further make matters worse he is NOT an expiring contract. For those of you that don’t know, it is BETTER to have a contract expiring sooner rather than later if the player is not worth the contract.

    So, you have Amare who is an all-star and actually worth his salary. But even if it is not, he is an expiring contract.

    So, why would the Suns trade an expiring contract of an all-star player for a non-expiring contract for a sub-average NBA player that is worth nothing close to his salary?

    There is no way in hell that the Suns would make any deal regarding RJ for Amare. Zero possibility. Why do you think you guys got RJ in the first place for players the Bucks just dropped or didn’t want? Because he is not worth his salary and they wanted to get rid if him.

    If i were the Suns and i had a choice of trading for RJ with Amare or doing nothing, i would choose NOTHING. Amare’s salary would role off next year, and they would have his money to spend/save.

  • buns

    Let’s says Manu to the Suns (for Stoudemire) is unlikely.
    And let’s say I hope it doesn’t happen.
    I’d still like to have a glimpse of what would Manu do in the Arizona basketball style.

    So lets continue the letsays.

    Let’s say he goes orange and purple.
    Let’s say he instantly puts a 25 points 5 rebs 7 ast for the last thirty games.
    Let’s say he doesn’t get injured anymore (Grant Hill/ Shaq style: injuries, then Phoenix, then no more injuries).
    Let’s say Amare kills the Spurs defense and locker room.
    Then the Spurs get tossed out in the first round by [insert team here].
    And the Suns being even more appealing with Manu doing Manu stuff in the desert (knocking down cactuses?) and everybody drooling at the Suns style.
    Let’s say everybody now looks at the Spurs like dumbs.
    Let’s says Manu/Amare does not happen.
    Let’s say I never wrote this whole thing.

  • Jason

    as a pistons fan they’re isn’t much hope for my team, but one possible way out of this would be to trade Rip and Tayshaun for Richard Jefferson, Finley and Bonner. This way the Spurs FO wouldn’t have to trade away Ginobli and it’d be one last retooling while trying to get the most out of what Duncan has left. Jefferson would come off our bench, and spurs would have a linup of Parker, Hamilton, Prince, Duncan, Mcdyess/Blair with Manu off the bench.

    Not sure if the Spurs would do it, but I’d think if any team knows how effective those players can be on both ends of the court it’s the Spurs.

  • Cory Clay

    @Kaveh as impressive as it is to know that you are aware of where the “caps lock” button is on your keyboard it is funny that you talk as if you have sources within the NBA and are able to determine how each team has assesed Richard Jefferson. I can’t wait for your future posts so I can get some more of your “in-the-know” perspective.

    I will be waiting anxiously to hear what teams around the League will be doing before the trade deadline, please don’t keep me waiting too long.

  • Texxus_Boi

    I wouldn’t mind Tyrus Thomas after it’s all said and done he’s athletic plays good defensively and rebounds well and occasionally can score for you I think he would be very productive with what we do.

  • Cory Clay

    In your post you ask why the Suns would trade Amare and you also asked us why do Spurs fans think we got Jefferson for so little and then later in your post you mention how the Suns can just let Amare’s contract expire and then sign a comparable player, I am going to take the time and answer these questions for you.

    – First of all the Suns, from reports, seem to be under the impression that they will not be able to sign Amare if he opts out of his contract this summer and that the money he might want is more than they are willing to spend, so if you are the Suns getting a player that would potentially do well in your system is better than letting a player walk for no compensation.
    While RJ may be overpaid, it is way more difficult to just take a player’s annual salary and then make an assesment on how a team would feel about that player’s contract being on their books.
    Maybe the Suns would prefer to pay RJ one more year and then use his expiring deal next year as trade bait, or maybe Sarver just wants to cut expenses. RJ makes $2 million less than Amare, I’m sorry $2 million dollars is $2 million dollars. That’s not even factoring that Sarver’s overall financial commitment would be $14 million vs maybe $60-$70 million long term tied up in an Amare extension.

    – When considering how we got RJ the same concepts must be factored in, when a team is in rebuilding mode, financially the main goal is usually to cut costs, stock up on players on low salary contracts through the draft, and then bring in a player like RJ when you’re ready to contend. By the time the Bucks are ready to contend, Jefferson won’t be close to the player that he is now. Also you keep discussing Jefferson’s value around the league, guess what? The whole league knows that most players don’t perform up to their ability the first year on a new team, especially when that team is the Spurs who have very complicated offenisve and defensive sets.

    -Thirdly if you were familiar with what the salary cap was you would know that a player cant just let a contract expire and then go use that money on another player when they are over the cap and that is what the Suns are with Nash, Richardson, and Barbosas, and etc. on the payroll.

    Hope that was helpful.

  • Daniel Novosad

    Where does Splitter fit into this whole situation? Is he going to be here next year? If so why trade for a big man when you have so many already?

  • Renato

    I previously stated I have no idea how the contracts were worth. But the spurs need to move RJ to the bench and get a SF. The spurs won 2 championships without 2 domminant big man so I do not understand the call for a PF/C thats fine.
    The spurs need to place inside out. Im so tired of seeing parker or jefferson or manu dribble around the perimiter and pull up for a jumper. Their strength and abillity is to get to the hoop and draw fouls. Currently on the team, the only dependable jump shooter is mason jr and finnely, but finnely is too old and a liabillity on defense. They need 2 starters, when duncan and parkery are in who can sit on the perimiter and hit shots. Then mvoing RJ manu and hill together gives them that fast break team. I hope the spurs use Bonner and Finnely and Mahimi if they need to, to aquire a dependable jump shooter and move RJ to the bench in favor of Mason Jr.

  • J

    It would not take long for Pop et al. to teach Amare how to play defense. He has the physical ability to be a dominant low post defender, but he plays for the Suns, an organization that doesn’t stress defense.

    That said, expect to give up some young talent and a sizable expiring contract or why would the Suns want to do it?

  • SpursfanSteve

    I’m watching the Phoenix/Dallas game now. Since Amare sat down, Dallas has had trouble scoring, inside, outside, anywhere. Could be momentum, could be coincidence, but right now the Suns look like they are locking them down. Dirk isnt scoring, Barea and Terry are getting cut off on their way to the basket, and everything is getting challenged. Amare is a stat monster, but from what i’ve seen from this game and every other game i’ve ever watched him in (including all those against the Spurs) he’s never been anything more than that. He’ll get you lots of points for fantasy basketball, but he’s not a guy like Manu who can impact the game with a boxscore full of 0’s.

  • ian patoc

    i dont think letting up manu ginobili go away will change the views of many that spurs office is the best in dealing or getting players.what a poor decision would that be,i tell you right now ,manu is totally different when playoff comes.Men!he is the guy we need not amare who can’t play defense what we need is another big guy that can compliment well with duncan,dyess,blair and bonner.frontrunners to that are the guys like chris andersen,nene,camby and scola.i would like to suggest a trade for andersen he is an energy guy off the bench alongside with blair.he can match up odom,bynum,even howard and kg defensively.and if ever spurs will land up thomas that aquisition for me is good.athletic,can boost energy and can play defense.think well spurs.

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  • bigtee34

    I don’t like the idead of getting amare, However i dont agree with the statement that he can’t defend. He hasn’t been asked to defend just score. Alot of people have doubted players the spurs have brought in saying they can’t or wont defend, and pop always gets what he want’s from them.