Tony Parker is 28

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Earlier this summer, someone published a why-the-Spurs-will-stink preview that included the statement that Tony Parker was “past his prime” as part if its argument. NBA.com is currently running an article under the title, “These players could be looking at a big decline this season“.  The article includes Tony Parker in its list of (potentially) declining stars, although its author takes a moderating approach in his discussion of Parker.

Meanwhile, Tony Parker has spent much of his summer working on his game with Spurs coach Chip Engelland, carefully following an intense summer regimen designed by the Spurs coaching staff.

Tony Parker is a 28 year old NBA All-Star heading into a contract year — talk of decline seems silly, at best.

Tony Parker is coming off a bad season, but it was also a season when he was hampered by injury from first to last, and those injuries were exacerbated by the emergence of George Hill. In other words, even when healthy, Parker’s role was shifting beneath his feet. It’s surprising he played as well as he did.

Players get injured. Numbers decline. That’s the way it goes. But when said players are 28 with only one subpar season in their history, it’s premature to park a hearse outside the practice facility. In fact, in the case of Parker, one could just easily put together an argument that his best basketball is ahead of him. If we’re identifying outliers in Parker’s career, last season comes complete with an “Outlier” badge pinned to its lapel.

2009-10 wasn’t a trend, it was an aberration. Prior to last season, the trend with Parker was up, up, up. Two season’s ago, he was one of the best players in the league.

Parker’s summer regiment is one of many indicators that the Spurs expect to improve from within this season.  How hard is it to imagine Tony Parker, George Hill, DeJuan Blair, Garrett Temple and Alonzo Gee playing better basketball this season. Who isn’t expecting Blair and Hill to take the proverbial next step during the upcoming campaign?

And this without discussion of Tiago Splitter, James Anderson, Gary Neal and Richard Jefferson Year 2.

The Spurs are improved, except for the sobering reality that Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili are a year older, and each of them was already an old man in basketball years.  But even this hard truth works in Parker’s favor.

When needed, Parker is able to pick up the slack on offense. The Spurs may want him to assert himself early to prevent Duncan and Ginobili from carrying an unnecessarily heavy burden prior to the All-Star break.

There is also this: if Tony Parker comes screaming out of the gate, the Spurs will get better trade offers for their All-Star, 28 year old, former Finals MVP point guard.  In short, Tony Parker is more likely to break out than decline this season.  The smart bet says his October through February numbers will rival his career highs. It’s the one scenario in which everyone wins.

  • rob

    Jim Henderson

    “Just to clarify your point on open cap space. Next year we still have duncan at 21million, ginobilli 13 million , jefferson 8, splitter 3, blair 1 , g.hill 2, anderson 1.4, mcdysess 5. That alone puts us close to the cap.”

    Got it. Underestand it. What I’m saying is that after Duncan/Ginobili there will be tons of cap space to attract one or possibly two franchise type players. And if the Spurs fill their roster now with prominent role players on the cheap…when that time comes…it would be attractive to a franchise type player to want to sign with the Spurs being the pieces of the puzzle will already be established rather than waiting 3 to 4 years to build around that player. The duration of some of our younger player’s contracts certainly seem to point in that direction.

    With regards to Parker…I was eluding to getting his financial worth now if he wants to exit San Antonio after this season.

  • SpursfanSteve

    Absolutely and without question i would not trade any of our top 4 players for Melo. He’s a good scorer and is no better than RJ at anything else. And if you look at the efficiency %’s, he’s not significantly better than RJ, although some of that is no doubt because he is the main option on his team. I still wouldnt do it. Let him and CP3 go to NY with Ama’re or start their own club in NJ, i’m not interested in either, thank you.

  • GitErDun

    NO NO ME-LO!!! Talk about over-rated. His career shooting average is about 3.5% BELOW the league average.

  • spursfanbayarea

    @rob
    You quoted me but directed the comment to Jim. You are correct that we will have cap space once duncan and ginobili are off the books. But they dont come off the books together until 2013-2014 season. And at that time george hill will also be on a bigger contract, not to mention if there is an extension to parker. Maybe there will be cap space for one max player. You can do what the heat did and renounce everyone and then have money to do two max players. But you have to go through at least a few losing seasons with that approach.

    When was the last time a superstar franchise player went to a small market team as a free agent?
    The strength of the spurs front office has been realizing they were lucky with the lottery and surrounding the two franchise players with good role players around them and doing a good job with draft and stash.

    What superstar do you have in mind coming to spurs? Durant is locked up, so is D. Howard, Lebron, Wade all locked up. Small market teams are always at a disadvantage when going after free agents. Big name players end up on small market teams either by draft or a trade. Please give an example of a young superstar you think will come to the spurs?

    I love the spurs, but as far as a city. It can not compete with the likes of a NY, CHI, Miami, LA when recruiting franchise type players. The franchise type players want the best of both worlds.

    If you want blow the whole thing up and go the lottery route like the thunder, you have a better chance getting the players you want. But you would have trade away the core of the spurs and get lots of picks, not to mention get lucky with the draft picks and lottery. For every duncan and robinson, there are many more kwame browns, olowakandis.

    Last point, this generation of star players. They dont want to do it on their own. They will want to team up with another star players. Unfortunatly the leagues is going to pretty soon be 4 super teams and a bunch of scrubs.

  • donarmand

    This article should exist. In the last 10 yrs the best point guards have been Derek Fisher and Tony Parker. Tony Parker has taken out every great point guard of this era to win 3 rings and is a finals MVP. Which he deserved when he put the team on his back to win that Finals(im tired of clowns denying the MVP he earned). Why is anyone questioning if he’ll be great? We should be thanking him and Manu for taking the summer off. Anywhere that dude(healthy) goes they will make the playoffs. straight up, if they trade him for anything less than a Chris Paul, the Spurs wont get anymore rings. I think the one thing between the Spurs and another ring is 1 more big man. Mycdyess is useless now, Blair is too small, Bonner is a scrub. Even if Splitter is all that, they need another good big body.

  • Jim Henderson

    spursfanbayarea
    September 5th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    “Now the scenario if we could just trade one year rentals of parker and garbage for melo for a one year rental I would definetly consider that. It would in essence put us much closer to a championship in duncans and ginobillis closing window.”

    Yes, WE would consider it, but Denver probably wouldn’t. They are not really helped that much by having TP AND Billups, and would be hurt by not having Melo.

    “Trade Scenario
    Parker, Bonner, Jefferson, McDyess for Billups and Melo?
    Would you do that?

    Or
    Parker McDyess for Melo as one year rentals?”

    I would be open to both of those, but again I don’t think Denver would be.

    SpursfanSteve
    September 5th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    “Absolutely and without question i would not trade any of our top 4 players for Melo. He’s a good scorer and is no better than RJ at anything else.”

    You’re underrating Melo. He’s one of the best scorers in the entire league, and that’s not all he does.

    GitErDun
    September 5th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Please avoid making stats up. Melo career FG% is essentially AT the league average:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html

    That’s a big difference from being “3.5% BELOW the average.”

  • Futureman

    Great article on ‘visualizing shot selection by position’ at hardwood paroxysm:

    http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/09/02/nba-hd-visualizing-shot-selection-by-position/#comments

    Fascinating to see that George Hill’s shot selection is that of a contemporary prototypical point guard.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    “He is an “above average ball-handler”, no question. You must be confusing “ball-handling” with creating/passing off the dribble, but they are two different things.”

    Well Jim, we have different definitions of ball handling. A very very basic example is when a kid is taught to dribble he is told to always keep his head up. The reason a young player is taught to do this exemplifies what a ball handler is; Court awareness, keeping your teammates involved, etc…

    Passing off the dribble is part of ball handling, imo. Keeping court awareness & knowing how to dribble so that one can pass in any direction. This is all part of ball handling.

    How many times have you seen Tony do a cross over dribble? I’m talking about a traditional cross over. How many times have you seen Tony beat a man with a behind the back or between the legs dribble? How many times have you seen Tony do a start and stop dribble to beat a man?

    Compare that total with

    How many times have you seen Tony try to explode past his man with raw speed? He slows his done, looks at the hoop like he’s considering a jumper and then put his inside shoulder down and
    accelerates past his defender.

  • rob

    spursfanbayarea

    Criminy. My appologies to both you and Jim for the misdirected quote.

    “What superstar do you have in mind coming to spurs? Durant is locked up, so is D. Howard, Lebron, Wade all locked up. Small market teams are always at a disadvantage when going after free agents. Big name players end up on small market teams either by draft or a trade. Please give an example of a young superstar you think will come to the spurs?”

    Howard is not locked up.
    http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents/2013/

    Deron Williams and Chris Paul are unrestricted as well. Of course so will be Splitter and Blair.

    And I understand the nomenclature of small market teams when it comes to attracting franchise type players. But San Antonio is a bit different than your average small market team when it comes to proven success.

    Of course this is all hypothetical. But if the Spurs can acquire over the next two seasons a strong base of role players locked in for an extended time when these options become available in the summer of 2013…you have a team with the talent and winning history already solidified to attract 1 or 2 franchise type players.

    As far as your point about a team having to go through several seasons of losing record to rebuild. This duration too could conceivably be reduced for reasons I’ve already mentioned. 2012-2013 looks to be the worse year for the Spurs. Duncan and Ginobili will be way past their prime or retired. I would surmise that to be a losing season. But that too will be beneficial to the Spurs if it builds a solid core of role players.

    The Spurs, at the end of the 2012-2013 season could very well have the best of both worlds in it’s ability to have a high draft selection and financial flexability to secure a franchise type player.

    Thus continuing a long tradition of success and relevence in the nba.

  • spursfanbayarea

    @rob
    You are right that currently D. Howard will be a free agent in 2013. But we dont know what the new cba will be like. Or will he sign an extension. There have been rumors that they may allow for a franchise tag similar to the nba. Also as we have learned this summer, just because you have cap space doesnt guarantee you will get the big names. Even big market teams missed out on the super stars. Chi, ny, nj, and la all missed out on lebron. And if you clear up that much space and miss out then you have to dole out contracts to crappy players. League minimum is 43 million team spending. Look what happened to nets, they had to overpay average players like farmar and outlaw to get to that 43 after creating the space.

    The spurs are not your typical small market team because they as I stated before they got lucky in the lottery and were smart enough to surround them with proper talent and draft and stash. Have you noticed that the spurs have not been able to sign any prominent free agents during the duncan era. That was a championship caliber team and we were only able to surround duncan with good role players. Such as barry, horry. What happens if in 2013 we get a top pick and get a kwame brown. That could set us back years. The spurs had cap space before and did go after a big name free agent before. We tried to go after jason kidd. He chose to stay in jersey rather than come to san antonio. At that time we also went after Jermaine Oneal at that time an all star big man. He also turned down the spurs. So if we got turned down when we were championship caliber team with cap space. How do you think we will get a big name when we just have potential? Unfortunatley being small market does hurt the spurs. Which makes it all the more impressive that they were able to put together 4 title teams. In last 30 years the spurs are the only small market champions. So we have to appreciate what the spurs have done and realize how remarkable it was. Go Spurs Go.

  • Jim Henderson

    Lenneezz
    September 5th, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    “How many times have you seen Tony do a cross over dribble?”

    He does that plenty of times.

    …….How many times have you seen Tony beat a man with a behind the back or between the legs dribble?”

    As I said, Tony doesn’t engage in fancy types of stuff. But that does not mean that he’s only an average-to-below average ball-handler. The question is, does a PG handle the ball in a way that helps your team win. And Tony meets that definition better than most.

    How many times have you seen Tony do a start and stop dribble to beat a man?

    He does that plenty of times.

    “How many times have you seen Tony try to explode past his man with raw speed?”

    Nobody’s suggesting that taking the ball to the rack and finishing is not his greatest strength. But that doesn’t mean that he’s only an average-to-below average ball-handler.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    Jim, my point is that he uses his acceleration and speed to beat his man way more often that he uses ball handling skills.

    Also, he doesn’t use a cross over to beat his man “plenty of times”. Sometimes he’ll start to drive one direction and then switch directions. I know what you’ll say, but that is a cross over. But it’s necessary to know what it’s based on. This is why I said “TRADITIONAL cross over”. Tony is able to cross over because his speed and acceleration force his defender to play off him so much. I’ll admit it’s a fine line but it is important. Tony does not have the ball handling skills to cross over on a defender if he doesn’t have elite quickness.

    Even when he slows down before trying to accelerate past his man. This is not using his dribble to attack, confuse and take away the balance of his defender. This is simply using his speed. Most moves of Tony are based on his acceleration, speed and quickness.

    I will give Tony credit for one dribble move. When he’s isolating his man and he dribbles straight at him before deciding which direction he’ll attack. He is utilizing his dribbling to put his opponent on the defensive. That is a rare good example of ball handling by Tony, imo.

    Whether Tony’s ball handling is average, above average or whatever is just our opinions. Whether Tony will have to alter his game as he gets older is not opinion. If Tony wants to be effective when his acceleration is not elite, than he better tweek his game because he will not be the same. And maybe he will… However, he hasn’t shown me that he can.

  • GitErDun

    By the end of November we will know quite a few things about the Spurs as they are currently constituted. We will Know:

    1. If Blair has progressed and developed a 10-18 foot shot.
    2. If Blair has improved on his defense.
    3. If Hill has continued to grow and develop.
    4. If Anderson, Neal, and Temple are worth the effort to have them on the team.
    5. If Splitter is all that we think he is.
    6. If TP has recovered from last seasons injuries.

    IF 2 of these things are NO, then look to see TP traded at the deadline. If more than 2 are no, expect Parker to go for prospects/high draft choices.

  • rob

    spursfanbayarea

    “The spurs are not your typical small market team because they as I stated before they got lucky in the lottery and were smart enough to surround them with proper talent and draft and stash. Have you noticed that the spurs have not been able to sign any prominent free agents during the duncan era. ”

    That’s because the Spurs have always been cap conscious. Not until last season did they enter the realm of heavy penalty to pay for a player. And that was the gamble taken to help secure a player to help with one more championship run. It didn’t pan out. Jefferson could not produce in hopes of producing. Gamble failed. But it’s only a handful (if that during the Duncan era) that the Spurs did not get in return their player acquisition efforts.

    What I’m talking about is not the norm as you are suggesting. Again…I understand your equivelance to small market teams. And Kidd did not come to the Spurs because the Spurs were “small market”.
    O’neil did not come to the Spurs because of the small market tag. Both had to do with the security they were looking for in a “long term” contract. The Spurs simply didn’t need or agree to the terms those players were hoping for in the negotiations.

    The scenario I’m presenting is totally different. It presents the ability to offer long term deals to franchise type players and be allowed to garnish maybe one high draft prospect to help maintain the success that theSpurs have had without the normal drop off in success for the duration you are talking about.

    And I’m not saying it IS something they will do. One can never predict the future. But IT IS something that could be done if handled the correct way. And I don’t think you give this franchise enough credit at reinventing itself when needed.

    Luck…as it may be in the draft experience… only happens once in every 15 to 30 years. This approach somewhat helps eliminate luck with proactive choices and actions.

    I can see a “successful” organization doing something proactive rather than waiting on luck. And the Spurs have always been a “succesful” organization. And they may not do exactly what I have conjured. But you yourself just mentioned they were smart enough to draft and stash. I’m just saying that success (or process) doesn’t have to stop. In fact…it can still be used as an effective tool to land one or two big name F/A in the near future without having to endure the typical talent hiatus that normally accompanies teams after a succesful run.

    All the great teams in sports past have managed to do exactly that…I consider the Spurs as one of the greatest sport teams ever assembled and believe they will be proactive instead of waiting for luck.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    “Parker is 28 years old and will be looking for a 5-6 year contract with possible opt outs. Ginobilli at 33 was able to get a 3 year 39 million dollar deal. Parker who is 5 years younger will want at minimum same money but probably throw on a few years. If you do not believe parker is worth that money then you should hope for a trade of tony parker while his trade value will be at his highest.”

    Yeah Rob, I’ve been posting that Tony will want a 4-5 yr deal at 14-15Million/year. I’ve also posted that he won’t take less than Manu. Honestly, you probably read my posts first because I’ve been posting all this for a while. I’ve been a big advocate of trading Tony. I think his contract demands are going to be too high and will handcuff the Spurs if they sign him.

    I was simply giving a scenario where the Spurs could sign him but sadly I know he’ll never go for this.

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Lenneezz

    The last post was a response to “bayareaspursfan”, not Rob. Sorry about that.

  • spursfanbayarea

    @rob
    The spurs offered oneal and kidd max contracts. They were limited to 5 years rather than 6 year contracts. That situation hasnt changed. If you believe that economics are the only reason to leave a team, the team that has the player always will have the advantage of offering 6 years vs 5 years. So that makes it even more unlikely that the spurs would get a top level free agent. The spurs would only be able to get a franchise player if they first were willing to come(long shot) and then also have the cap space to do so such as lebron , bosh. The reality of the matter is that the spurs have not been able to get top level free agents even when we were champions. How do you expect them to get players into a small market when there is only role players? Can you give me an example of a franchise player going to a small market team as a free agent?

    I agree that the front office is a great front office. Ive stated that many times. But I disagree on rebuilding on the hope that a franchise player will come over. I dont want to be like the Knicks and clear space and then overpay 2nd level players. Paying an injury prone forward 100 million would cripple us. The knicks have the resources to bite the bullet. Or overpaying a boozer type like the bulls had to do. The odds of a superstar player leaving his team is already remote, and like it or not, even more so to a small market team. The spurs are a great small market team. That is the truth of the matter. Which makes it all the more impressive. If we want to continue to be a good team the way to do so is developing through draft and trades while staying competitive.The spurs front office has been effective in doing so.

    @Lenneez
    I agree that parker will not go for 10 mill per year. I would love to see parker stay a spur. But if we are planning to move forward then his trade value will never be higher than it is now. With Hill and having colo overseas I wouldnt be opposed to shoring up other parts of our roster if we are going to lose parker at years end. So that is why I have thrown out the trade proposals.

  • Easy B

    Not advocating a Tony trade, but if I was, maybe something like this:
    Parker and 2nd round pick Reynolds to Portland for Bayless, Pryzbilla and either Babbit or Fernandez if Portland won’t bite.
    Portland instantly become elite top 4 team (barring injuries), whilst spurs keep building that young core and get some extra size.
    Obviously Tp’s contract length would be the main concern for Portland…but who wouldn’t want to resign with that squad?

  • spursfanbayarea

    @Easy B
    If we were to get something from portland I would think that we would have to at least get Aldridge to make it worth it. A trade of Aldridge and Fernandez for Parker and Reynolds would be a good trade for the spurs. What do you think about that?

  • rob

    spursfanbayarea

    As I stated before…and am in agreement with you about to some degree…it is difficult to land a perenial all star away from another team. But as we saw with James and Bosh…both took less to play with Miami and join Wade. Chicago, New York and New Jersey would have been the chosen destination by your reasoning with regards to joining larger market teams. And staying with their respective teams would have garnished more money contractually. So it’s not ALWAYS the case as you are placing in your arguement.

    The 15 smallest NBA cities – Listed by television market, out of 210 total areas (Number of Television Homes)…Miami was listed as 12th out of 15. The other cities in that list were San Antonio as the 3rd smallest with Memphis and New Orleans as one and two.
    http://www.nbahoopsonline.com/generalinfo/Smallestmarkets.html

    You have the right to believe what you want and have some numbers to prove your point. By the same token I reserve the right to believe what I want and show circumstances that indicate I could be correct as well.

  • Shawn_b

    for a player rely more on his own speed rather than skills (lack of 3’s, poor defense, bad passing) this is possible.

  • spursfanbayarea

    @rob
    I never stated that monetary reasons were the sole factors in decisions. You stated that money was a reason that we could not get kidd and oneal. As for Lebron and Bosh, after accounting for the lax of state income tax lebron and bosh only gave up about 4 million over 6 years. They can easily recoup that cost by endorsements. Also I stated before that the league is now going toward super teams. Players want to play with other stars. And as I have stated before they want the best of both worlds. The best players do not want to win on their own. All the big names are trying to jump together to win championships. We can thank boston and l.a. for this mess.

    My reasoning never said that the biggest market teams guarantee to get all the talent. They have better odds to do so. NY got amare, Chi got boozer.

    My reasoning is that small market teams have a tougher chance at landing the big name free agents. What big name free agent went to a small market team? As a matter of fact when was the last time a big time free agent did so?

    You are free to believe what you want. Im just debating the likely hood of rebuilding our team successfully that way. Now is there a chance someone like D. Howard would come. Sure but the odds are more likely not especially if there are only role players on the roster. Can we agree on that? We can both believe in different ways of building a team.

    I could wish that we trade away some players, win the lottery and get another duncan in the draft. Now is that the most likely scenario? Most likely not. Could I believe that, sure. But the key point is thats not likely to happen. The spurs front office does a good job at predicting what will happen and keep us relevant. We could pray that Anderson turns out to be like Kobe Bryant. Now we could wish for that to happen. But is it likely? More likely not.

    Thanks for keeping the discussion clean and spirited.

  • Jim Henderson

    Reynold’s? Do you mean Richards? In any event, Portland would not let go of Aldridge without Miller being in that deal. They “might” entertain Aldridge, Miller, & A. Johnson for Parker, McDyess, & Richards (this is assuming that Parker sign’s a 4-5 year deal). But to be honest, I’m not that high on any of those players. Not really a great fit with the Spurs. Aldridge doesn’t play enough “D” for my tastes, not at 11+ mil./5 years. And I don’t like Fernandez very much for similar reasons. I also don’t think Bayless & Babbitt are particularly good fit’s here either. Bayless is too much like Hill, and I have my doubts that Babbitt can defend the 3-spot adequately. In my view, Batum is the key for us, and he would have to be in any deal that we might make for Parker.

  • Easy B

    @Jim & spursfanbayarea,
    I meant Richards….I figured Portland wouldn’t give up Aldridge, and would rather give up a center. I don’t think we want Miller or Johnson – I think the team is trying to head in the other direction. I can understand the Babbit and Fernandez argument, maybe we could squeeze Batum out of the deal – that would be a score. I don’t see a problem with the spurs running a tandem point guard proposition with Bayless and Hill – in fact we may even be able to use as an advantage over certain teams. But realistically, 1 high level All Star guard does not get you an All star power forward unless you are packaging alot more than a second rounder and a power forward in his last year in the league….and though Aldridge has his flaws, he is still an upgrade over 90% of the power forwards playing in the league, so I don’t see Portland parting with him in a hurry. Portland might think they have a shot at Chris Paul in the future, so we may not have as much bargaining power as we think. What I most like about the trade is that we continue to add bulk and presence in the front line, whilst adding young perimeter talent that the FO can mould. Whose to say a babbit or fernandez wouldn’t flourish here?

  • andy

    i agree with jim on the trade. none of those players excites me. as much as i love the UT alum, aldridge isn’t the intense, focused winner that we need on our team. there are pieces i wouldn’t mind having on portland’s team, but those are not them.

    re: free agents going to smaller markets, i side with bayarea over the past, but rob for the future. let’s face it, we’re extremely fortunate to have 4 championships with the san antonio market. i love san antonio and austin (i think we can reasonably include austin in the market), but the riverwalk is a far cry from south beach. the lebracle was a one-off; there just won’t be superstars heading to a small(er) market team again. rob, you said miami was the 12th smallest market, but that’s still a significant jump from san antonio.

    that said, i think players will start to realize that smaller markets won’t matter in the current media age. people will go to the story. since miami got the trio, they’ve been inserted into the national broadcasts much more than they would’ve been otherwise. if the new cba has a hard cap, finances won’t be as big a hindrance either. it will all come down to deal saavy, and the spurs fo has shown their mettle there. i kind of hope they bring back pritchard in an advisory role at the least for his dealmaking skills. maybe he’d take it for a bit, but i doubt it. either way, the future of the nba is extremely murky right now, and i don’t think we’ll know if we can be contenders past this year until everything is settled.

  • Jim Henderson

    Easy B
    September 6th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    I really don’t see Hill & Bayless manning the point on a championship team. They’re both solid players, but are both naturally combo guards that are a bit undersized. Miller, even at his age, is still in the top half of PG’s in the league. He’s a tough player, with veteran leadership and experience. His acquisition would be a stop-gap move until we move to solve our long-term PG situation, and he & his salary would have to be moved by Portland if they were to even consider giving up a young, talented PF on the precipice of his prime years. What they’re getting for him is an all-star PG, 3-time champion, & finals MVP that I contend is still in his prime years (for at least 2 more years). But as I said, I don’t think it’s the type of deal that makes a lot of sense to either team. The only deal that makes sense for me is to package Parker & some combination of (e.g., Anderson, Temple, McDyess, Richards …) for Batum, Miller, and pieces (e.g., Przybilla, A. Johnson …). The main guy is Batum (although Prz can fortify our front line with size & toughness, Miller is a crafty vet that can still play, and at least Johnson is a young, true PG). Batum plays “D”, hit’s the three, can platoon with RJ, and be our SF of the future (he’s still just 21 years old). Portland gets an all-star PG that has won championships, as well as some promising youth to soften the loss of Batum. If we want to deal with Portland, these are the types of things that we’d need to look at, but even so, I just don’t think the Blazers are particularly good match for us to do a big trade.

  • Easy B

    @jim…actually, I like what you proposed then – miller, batum and pryzbilla for Parker and Mcdyess…we could definitely stay in the mix with that kind of exchange…and then look to the draft or free agency for future PG’s. I guess what we are asking with this deal is will Batum reach All star level?

  • rob

    spursfanbayarea

    Thank you for the spirited clean debate as well.

    Our differances of opinion in how the Spurs could/should/more than likely would be best in rebuilding is all hypothetical based on different criteria. But as you pointed out…

    “Also I stated before that the league is now going toward super teams. Players want to play with other stars. And as I have stated before they want the best of both worlds. The best players do not want to win on their own. All the big names are trying to jump together to win championships.”

    Though this alone doesn’t warrant the reason I have for trying to rebuild the Spurs in the manner I explained. It gives the Spurs the opportunity in the near future to allow such a thing to happen. That and, imo, the importance of trying to get something tangible for Tony now via trade. But then again…Parker might have another break out season for the Spurs this year. And if that be the case…perhaps doing their best to retain Tony might just be the catylist that allows the Spurs to do such a thing in the near future.

    In either case…it’s obvious we are both die hard fans of the Spurs and it would be an honor to sit next to you at a Spurs game.

  • BALLHOG

    All of these suggested trade scenarios amke good conversation, but wont get it done. More marginal players is definately not the answer.

    Trading Parker is not the answer either…Spurs should lock this guy up. Paying Tony 10 million a year is warranted. He is well worth the price, unlike other unnamed players who are grossly overpaid.

    Besides, Tony has been reportedly working fiercly on his outside shooting again this offseason. If Tony becomes consistent with his 3 point shot and his mid range jumper, he can no longer be guarded. Cant crowd him, cant give him space.

    Here is a Dallas Cowboy quote that relates to the Spurs situation:

    “Everyone around the Cowboys knows there are tough decisions to make regarding the roster. The Cowboys shouldn’t nickel-and-dime their roster, especially if they feel like this is a roster that can make a deep playoff run.

    It seems the Cowboys want to go with younger players and that’s fine, but those young players, regardless of who they are, have to contribute”.

    Certainly rings true for the Spurs….

    Guys, what we at Spur Nation are experiencing now is a team caught up in outdated thinking and too stubborn to change its stripes.

    Suddenly, we go out and sign Neal to a guaranteed deal. IN doing so, his rape case was apparenlt no issue…Great for Neal and the Spurs. People make mistakes…It doesnt make them forever useless. Neal can play and has no fear…First player aquisition that Ive agreed with in 2 years.

    Blunders and bad personnel decisions have us primed for the lottery in 2012. Besdies, until the Spurs explain what the problem was with players like Mahinmi, we all remain clueless.

    Wouldnt his age, price, and size make him look decent backing up Splitter at the 5? Even though Pop considers Blair at 6’6, our back up center, we all know better than that…

    With the contracts of Duncan, Jefferson, Ginnobli and Bonner, we are stuck out..

    Personally, I would not have resigned Ginnobli, would have asked Tim for a restructure, would have signed Jefferson at 5 mil a year, and would have cut Bonner. Would have released Jerrels..Dont need anymore 6′ guards.

    Might I add, I would have NEVER lost Scola either….Did the brilliant FO not see this? Apparently not…

    We are a small market team and continually become less attractive for marquee players each year…

    Spurs need change and fresh perspective. New ideas and a new way of doing business. No more low budget commercials and lack of players in the endorsement game…BS advertisement and failure to keep the fan base informed has gotten old.

    We all know its time for change. If Im peter Holt, I can see the rough times comming…

    Cant win in the NBA if the Bonners of the league are the only type of players who actually want to play here. Ownership should consider this alarming at the least…

    Would have kept Dwayne Jones and Mahinmi as well.

    As it stands…Our front court is seriously limited and there is just nobody on this roster to back up RJ, period! Wasted the pick on Richards in the draft as well. (That old, outdated thinking again).

    These are the NBA genious? This is planning? Masterful FO moves? Best in the League?

    That is yesterday’s news…They havent done much lately, other than seriously suck.

    Mr. Holt, we need your help!

  • GitErDun

    Ballhog solution – get rid of everyone not named Neal or Parker. Tell Duncan he can re-sign at 1/4 of his salary. Bring back Mahinmi. Yup that’ll do it.

  • BlaseE

    Off Topic, but Splitter vs Scola at 1:00 today.

  • DieHardSpur

    @GiterDun

    Thanks for the translation from that mumbo jumbo…

    +10

  • DieHardSpur

    @BlaseE

    This will be an interesting matchup as SCOLA has dominated averaging 28 and 9?

    I would really like to see what would happen if Brazil decided to utilize Splitter and their #1 scoring option…

  • Maverick1948

    I am tired of reading so many posters talking about the decline of Tim Duncan. The only decline has been in his minutes. He is still putting up numbers that are not the much different than his best season. When you see his per 36 averages, he has dropped only 2 pts and 0 rebounds off his best season(2001-02). Pop has done a masterful job of protecting Tim for the last 13 years. Anyone who says Manu Ginobili is in decline, has not paid attention to what he did after Tony went down with the hand injury. Manu took over the offense. Yes, both had bad games, but so did the best in the league. Try 6-24 in a playoff game for the great “i broke my finger” Kobe.

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    Now as for Tony, he is going to be much better this season and will be signed to extension. He sees the Spurs are built around the pick and roll. With Tim it works and Tiago Splitter is excellent in it. Tony will become the focus of the Spurs offense much the same as CP3. He will put up the numbers of an allstar point guard. There are two keys to our championship hopes. Improvement from Jefferson, Blair and Hill plus the young bench.

    C Duncan/Splitter/Bonner
    PF McDyess/Blair/Bonner
    SF Jefferson/Gee
    SG Anderson/Manu/Temple
    PG Parker/Hill

    Later in the season, splitter moves to PF as a starter. McDyess takes a small active role till playoffs. Then works as a defensive replacement.

  • Maverick1948

    Try again.

    I am tired of reading so many posters talking about the decline of Tim Duncan. The only decline has been in his minutes. He is still putting up numbers that are not the much different than his best season. When you see his per 36 averages, he has dropped only 2 pts and 0 rebounds off his best season(2001-02). Pop has done a masterful job of protecting Tim for the last 13 years. Anyone who says Manu Ginobili is in decline, has not paid attention to what he did after Tony went down with the hand injury. Manu took over the offense. Yes, both had bad games, but so did the best in the league. Try 6-24 in a playoff game for the great “i broke my finger” Kobe

    Now as for Tony, he is going to be much better this season and will be signed to extension. He sees the Spurs are built around the pick and roll. With Tim it works and Tiago Splitter is excellent in it. Tony will become the focus of the Spurs offense much the same as CP3. He will put up the numbers of an allstar point guard. There are two keys to our championship hopes. Improvement from Jefferson, Blair and Hill plus the young bench.

    C Duncan/Splitter/Bonner
    PF McDyess/Blair/Bonner
    SF Jefferson/Gee
    SG Anderson/Manu/Temple
    PG Parker/Hill

    Later in the season, splitter moves to PF as a starter. McDyess takes a small active role till playoffs. Then works as a defensive replacement.

  • The Beat Counselor

    @ Jim Hendu

    I’m with Easy B; I actually like your trade proposal for Miller, Batum and PryzB. We get a perimeter defender and a legit 7’1 center and rebounder.

    On the other hand we still would need more 3 point shooting and perhaps another big.

    I think Miller would be an interesting fit for our system. He is a solid traditional PG and could be exactly what the Spurs need make full use of all of our scoring weapons.

    I’d like to see you elaborate on your thinking on this.

    Side notes:

    Ryan Reynolds! HA!

    Bring back Pritchard!!!

  • lvmainman

    Splitter is not good enough to start for Brazil vs Argentina?

    Spurs letting go of Scola ranks as one of the dumbest front office moves ever!

  • Jim Henderson

    Easy B
    September 7th, 2010 at 12:27 am

    “I like what you proposed then – miller, batum and pryzbilla for Parker and Mcdyess…..”

    Well, because McDyess is so old, I think we’d have to also give up either Temple or Anderson. Batum could become a borderline (or occasional) all-star, which is pretty good. Przybilla gives us the size we’re lacking on the front line. Miller is a super-tough, durable, crafty vet that knows what he’s doing at the point.

    BALLHOG
    September 7th, 2010 at 5:18 am

    “Paying Tony 10 million a year is warranted. He is well worth the price, unlike other unnamed players who are grossly overpaid.”

    There are two problems with this: (1) TP is likely going to get in the neighborhood of 13 mil. per over 5+ years; and (2), we MUST add additional young talent & depth, particularly on our front line, and TP is a valuable trade piece to get that done. And by the way, Batum is far from a “marginal” player, and at age 21 has considerable upside — TP doesn’t.

    “Blunders and bad personnel decisions have us primed for the lottery in 2012.”

    There’s no way we sink that low that quickly.

  • SAJKinBigD

    Quick question for the gallery: How is it SA is 7th in Population in the US (as of 2009 and has been growing for the last several years), and is considered a small market? Especially when you include Hill Country and Austin in it? I understand ownership isn’t Mark Cuban and his Billions (nor would I want that putz owning my team – thank God for Nolan Ryan and Chuck Greenberg I don’t have to have that weighing on my head as I root for my Rangers).

  • lvmainman

    Scola went off for 37 pts! Scola was on fire, unconscious, and clutch down the stretch. Spurs made a huge mistake giving him away.

    Splitter had a hard time one on one with Oberto offensively. Splitter rotated great defensively, but stopped only 1 layup out of 6 or 7 that were dropped in over his outstretched hand. He’s not a deterrent at the rim at all.

    I question how much help Splitter will be for the Spurs.

  • Hobson13

    lvmainman
    September 7th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
    “Scola went off for 37 pts! Scola was on fire, unconscious, and clutch down the stretch. Spurs made a huge mistake giving him away.”

    Scola was absolutely out of his mind. Turn around jumpers, fadeaways, 18-20ft jumpers, they all went in for him. In the last few seconds, he even tried to chunk a free throw off the rim that hit the backboard and went in. Thats when you know you are having a good night.

    “Splitter had a hard time one on one with Oberto offensively. Splitter rotated great defensively, but stopped only 1 layup out of 6 or 7 that were dropped in over his outstretched hand. He’s not a deterrent at the rim at all.”

    From what I saw, Splitter was simply giving away too much strength/weight to wily veterans like Scola and Oberto. In a way, he was the proverbial boy among men in this game. We’ve all discussed this numerous times, but Splitter needs to gain 20 lbs of muscle in order to really be able to stop a physical C in the NBA. Once he does that, he will be a force. For the record, Scola scored most of his points against Anderson Varejeo and if Louis were to play at that level every night, he would be a top three PF in the NBA…hands down. The guy simply had an unreal game.

    Everyone knows that Splitter will not the be second coming of Dikembe Mutombo. He simply doesn’t have the lift to be an elite shot blocker, but he will be a good positional defender once he bulks up.

    P.S. Splitter did have the only block in the game for either team.

  • Tyler

    @ SAJKinBigD

    Market size (for media purposes) is determined by the population of the metropolitan area (Austin is a separate market altogether). For example, Dallas and Ft. Worth are a single market. By that, San Antonio is #31 (viewers age 12+). And in relation to the rest of the NBA (and cities with major sports teams in general), SA still comes in on the lower end.

  • SAJKinBigD

    Thanks for the explanation – I’ve long wondered about the situation. So since there aren’t a lot of heavily populated non-incorporated ‘burbs around SA, it falls behind when compared to other areas. Probably a little to do with cable-availability, too, as I think SA’s pretty low on coverage (as is DFW, to be honest, but when everything’s added together, there’s a LOT of people around here).

  • BALLHOG

    @ Jim

    Batum should have already been a Spur…As a player, he doesnt suck at a Bonner, Bogans, Mason level and would be a nice piece, but hes even in the conversation in a trade for TP. We are talking about a top 5 NBA allstar guard with several rings to boot. I might accepet Batum as the third player in the deal, just so TP would have somebody to carry Eva’s bags. We need players Jim…

    No more wanna-be’s!

    @ lvmainman

    True on Scola. Though it is spilled milk at this point, the Scola situation was the incident that first made me leary about the dealings of this FO..

    The move made no basketball sense whatsoever. Was it done to protect Duncans minutes? Why would it. Tim is a better player. Another unanswered mystery. Shouldnt the fan base know why the team didnt keep Scola or maybe why they couldnt develpoe Mahinmi or Hairston? All the mystery….Is this a basketball team or a secret society? Is Spurs information considered G14 classified? Enough with the hush-hush BS!

    Strange indeed.

    Not all moves were idiotic. We didnt improve very much as a team, but we didnt get worse either. Neal and Anderson couldnt be as chewed up on defense as Mason and Bogans even if they put in effort to do so.

    Supposedly these two young men can shoot the ball and arent limited to open and uncontested set shots. This would be an immediate improvement.

    However, regardless of who we bring in, the team still lacks fire and has no swagger under this coach. The league has changed, gotten more athletic, and is getting younger every day. Spurs must adjust thier thinking and try to stay in the hunt.

    If this coach would stop thinking it’s about him, and get these young guys ready, to include Temple, Blair, and Splitter, and just let them play…WOW!

    Besides,

    We have 4 player coaches on the floor in Mcdyess, Duncan, Parker, and Ginnobli. Why over coach? Ever?
    Wouldnt it be nice to see them just incorporate these young guys and play some dayum basketball?

    None of this learning the system crap, sitting in the D Leauge, or sitting behind the bench in suits. How about some coaching? Some developement?

    No mind games, no dictator BS, no destroying of confidence, and no inconsistent minutes.

    If this coach could do these things, we could be a contender, now!

    Duncan, Ginnobli, and Parker are older, but who cares. They are still All Star ballers who bring it every single night. Warriors, proven and true! I would take them, with a decent supporting cast, over any Big 3 in the NBA.

    But, our masterful FO cant find 4-6 decent NBA caliber role players to team up with our big 3, in all of the basketball world? Anywhere?

    All the while, Our FO fully understands that Duncan and Ginnobli are working a 2 to 3 yr window, at best. We just dont have seasons to waste.

    We wonder why, dont we?

  • Jim Henderson

    BALLHOG
    September 7th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    “We are talking about a top 5 NBA allstar guard with several rings to boot. I might accepet Batum as the third player in the deal, just so TP would have somebody to carry Eva’s bags. We need players Jim…”

    Well, obviously you don’t rate Batum as highly as I do. As far as TP goes, he’s got about 3 prime years left, and then he’s on the down-slope. Batum, on the other hand is on the up-slope for 3-4 years, and at a prime-level plateau for another 7-8 years (conceivably at borderline all-star level). We need to build up the “quality” young players on this team that can help bring us success out into the future. Batum, while not a stud, could easily be one of those key players, and he can defend & hit the three, two areas we need improvement in. And as I said, we may lose TP anyway, plus we need size on the front line, which Prz can competently provide. Also, Miller is a tough cookie and has been a borderline all-star his entire career. He’s not the scorer that TP is, but a better play-maker & rebounder, and we have enough scoring on this team anyways. The deal would keep us competitive over the short-term with Miller, Prz, and Batum, AND help us build for the future with Batum. It’s not the best deal in the world, but if we’re going to lose TP anyways (probably more than 50/50 chance), we could certainly do worse.

  • Manolo Pedralvez

    All speculations about the future of point guard Tony Parker are moot until he sets food on the hardcourt once again and does his stuff. And while he may not be reading our opinions here about his fate, undoubtedly TP is chomping at the bit waiting to break out of the starting gate to prove his detractors – even those among us – wrong. Being in the last year of his contract may be motivation, but I believe what is spurring him on (pardon the pun) is to show all of us how he is still the premier PLAYMAKER that he is until injuries saddled him last season. He may be an offensive threat, too, but the Frenchman is no one-dimensional cager that we can box in, which is why he is considered one of the “Big Three.”
    Give TP a break, and he may yet reward those who have kept faith in him.

  • rob

    Jim Henderson

    I’ve thought long and hard about your deal with Portland.

    I like it if it ever came to fruition. Miller would be the perfect compliment to the players on this team. (Probably would help make Jefferson look better).

    I’ve always wanted Batum for the reasons you mentioned and even made a trade proposal earlier in another article suggesting just that.

    Pryz won’t garnish many points…but would be that prototypical 7′ big to clog the lane and defend the paint. Though I do beleive McDyess is the better player.

    Anyway…probably wouldn’t happen but it would be a good deal for the Spurs.

  • BALLHOG

    @ Jim

    Agreed about Batum….

    Also,

    Is there any feasible reason that the Spurs shouldnt be involved in this?

    See Below:

    http://bleacherreport.com/tb/b5L7l

  • SAJKinBigD

    Who would Amundson take time away from on this team? Maybe that’s why they’ve not been linked to him at all…

  • Hobson13

    BALLHOG
    September 8th, 2010 at 6:27 am

    “Is there any feasible reason that the Spurs shouldnt be involved in this?
    See Below:
    http://bleacherreport.com/tb/b5L7l

    Rumor has it that the Spurs have almost $2mil left of the MLE. Surely we could get Amundson for that?!? I can’t believe we are in September and he STILL hasn’t been signed. Man I wish our FO would get on the ball with things.