Trade Season Tilt a Whirl: Twirl No. 4

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Whee! Robert Horry!

Sam Amick:

John Salmons or Brad Miller may very well never play for the San Antonio Spurs, but the mere possibility of how one or the other could get there is worth revealing because of the other name involved.

Robert Horry.

According to a source close to the Spurs, San Antonio has interest in Salmons or Miller and the only way of landing one of them may be by way of the man who so many Kings fans despise. Horry the Kings-killer is not playing and has shown no signs of coming out of retirement, but he may be the only way San Antonio can land Salmons or Miller. The Spurs, according to the source, are considering which player helps them more and trying to figure out what it would take to bring one of them on board. The big three of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker are obviously untouchable, and there aren’t a whole lot of intriguing or attractive players or contracts beyond that.

Enter Horry, who would re-sign with San Antonio for this season only in a deal worth (insert necessary $ figure here) and then be traded. He would then be waived by the Kings while chuckling on his way out the door with a huge check in hand, with the Kings also possibly taking back Michael Finley (expiring deal worth $2.5 million) and getting out from underneath a contract (Salmons or Miller) they no longer see as part of the big picture plan. Because Horry played last season, I believe it’s within the post-retirement timeframe that this sort of deal would still be allowed by the league. The part where this likely falls apart – if it’s ever discussed at all – is the Kings wanting more.

San Antonio doesn’t have a first-round pick this year, although they could give up second-round picks for 2009 and/or a future first-rounder. Now because Salmons’ deal is worth $5.4 next year (with a player option for 2010-11 worth $5.8) and Miller’s expires next year at $12.2 million, it is obviously easier to get to Salmons’ number (or within the collective bargaining agreement-mandated 125 percent). The Spurs are just one a number of teams looking at the Kings’ roster and pondering the possibilities, but the context and history surrounding this one would make this move far more comical than the rest.

This is not a post about Brad Miller. This is not a post about John Salmons. Although, I could go in either of those directions. This is a post to say the Spurs may have something like a big expiring contract in Robert Horry.

Use your imaginations appropriately.

To their credit, one of our readers, Cyn, included these remarks under the last Tilt a Whirl post:

There is a something missing in all of these ‘trade machine’ plays. The Spurs still own the rights to Robert Horry and Horry has not put in his retirement papers with the NBA.

The big trade last season between NJ Nets and Dallas Mavs included Keith Van Horn in a sign and trade. It was a paper trade as Van Horn never came out of retirement and showed up to the Nets.

The big trade last season between the LA Lakers and Memphis Grizzlies included Aaron McKie in a sign and trade. It was a paper trade as well because McKie (an asst coach with 76ers) didn’t report to the Grizz.

You can read more about the hows and whys here.

  • Jimbo

    Not sure why we would need either Salmons or Brad Miller. What we need is an athletic center/PF who can get offensive rebounds, block shots and generally play good defense. Last time I checked, Brad Miller can do none of those.

  • Martin

    Tim / Graydon,

    Maybe this comment doesn’t apply here because is more up to 2010 free agency, but checking into the Rockets payroll, I couldn’t avoid to notice that Luis Scola (full disclosure: I’m from Argentina) which is one of the Spurs fan base biggest claims to the front office will be available in 2010, could he be pursued by the Spurs. In the end, you could have the Big Three (given that Manu’s contract is extended) + a team first SF/PF to play behind Timmy. He’s averaging 12PPG and 8RPG, and he is in his second NBA year, imagine 2 years from now under SA system.

    How do you see the odds of that happening?

  • ThatBigGuy

    Can we please just forget about getting another wing player, a la Vince or Salmons? We currently have 6 outside players who have scored at least 20 points in a game, counting Bonner. We NEED a big who can defend and hit the 15 foot jumper. Miller can do this, plus give you 4 assists a game. Extra defense on the wing isn’t really even needed. We’ve been defensively killing teams not by playing lock down D on the perimeter; we funnel the drives to the middle/baseline where Timmy and the other big can alter the shot. But now our bigs aren’t so big anymore. We need a seven footer who can guard the best offensive big, allowing Timmy to get the weak side block, and who can spread the floor to 15 feet so Timmy can operate down low. Miller fits this role, as does Camby and Sheed. Please, get us another big!

  • Juan

    Spurs Depth Chart:

    PG: Parker – Hill – Vaughn
    SG/SF (wing): Mason – Finley – Manu – Bowen – Udoka – Hairston
    PF/C (bigs): Duncan – Bonner – Thomas – Oberto

    I guess it depends on how pessimistic/optimistic you feel. One could argue we a very deep team when you see the strengths or weak one if you see the flaws. The important thing is to compare them to other teams (Lakers) and see if you think is enough to beat them on a 7 game series.

  • Phoebus

    But… salary limitations on what Horry could sign for are what exactly?

    Otherwise we could just sign him for 15m and trade him straight up for Amare and.. I know we can’t do that. Can we?

  • Phoebus

    or Bosh, etc.

    so please explain (in dollars) what we could or couldn’t sign Horry to, including an ’09 or 10 exp-ing contract.

    This can’t just be an open checkbook. Cause plenty of teams who know their most valuable assets are leaving soon (suns, raptors) would be all over it.

  • Phoebus

    Further: how long can an unofficially “retired” player wait until they have to file as retired? Like say, how much can Bruce help the Spurs before he accepts a FO job? See the pandora’s box?

  • http://www.48minutesofhell.com Timothy Varner

    Phoebus,

    You can check it out at CBA FAQ, but to my recollection it’s within a small percentage of his last contract. 115%, perhaps. Again, I’m going off memory so that might be a little off. But more or less, the Spurs are constrained to sign and trade Horry for something in the ballpark of his last contract. So, no, the Spurs are not going to get Bosh for Horry. I’m not sure how long the grace period extends. There is a NYT article that Cyn linked in the post that explains these situations. I recommend that to you.

  • ChillFAN

    Great stuff, Tilt-a-whirl excitement will exclipse any Spurs’ trade excitement this year. Can’t wait for #5!

    I am always humbled by the comments posted, you guys really know your stuff and are much smarter than me…I won’t let that stop me.

    Jimbo, you’re exactly right that Brad Miller does not bring a defensive advantage over Fab/Thomas.
    ThatBigGuy, my personal obsession with the Spurs “bringing in a scoring wing” is that the Spurs are usually only bring three to a four-man fight (see MidSeason Moult post). ThatBigGuy, you make a great point that Sheed and Camby would work, but their teams want too much in return or are not taking trades, respectively.
    Juan, when I look at the Spurs v Lakers depth-chart discrepancies, we are worst at wing, even when Bynum is healthy, if we allow Kobe to run wild.

    It boils down to this,
    (1) The Spurs can’t afford available bigs that will be better defensively than Thomas/Fab.
    (2) Mason is at the height of his trade value.
    (3) We made the same trade last year for Thomas, and it wasn’t the difference. Why do it again?
    (4) ThatBigGuy is totally right about Timmy being better when he can weakside block the Bynums, Gasols, Yaos, Howards, and Garnetts. But if it’s not a defensive upgrade, why do it?

  • Will

    ChillFAN, interesting thoughts.

    Re: Fab vs Kurt and why do another “Kurt trade” this year: first of all I’d rather keep Thomas than Oberto (you might see this differently). Second, the Spurs have some dead weight on their roster, which is never good. If there are guys that are not used, why not try to trade them and get some kind of upgrade. Remember that an upgrade for one team might be a downgrade for another, which is why trades happen in the first place.

    Re: Camby I still think it’s possible. It’s not where I’d put my money if I had to bet on it, but my guts say he’s on the trade block. Whenever I read “this guys is on our not-to-be-traded-at-any-cost list”, somehow the same guy ends up in the middle of a trade one week later. When I read “no way” I hear “maybe”. A team that really doesn’t want to trade somebody (e.g. Duncan and the Spurs) will say “sure we are open to a trade, we want Kobe, LBJ and David West for him, how does that sound?”

  • ChillFAN

    Good point, Will. Shopping someone of Amares caliber is the best way to get teams to outbid one another. A player like Camby who only a handful of teams have interest in, you’d be best to keep quiet about. Thanks Will

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