Wednesday, January 27th, 2010...10:01 am
Thinking Clearer About Amare
We’ve all had time to digest the rumor of the Spurs trading for Amare Stoudemire. And I’d like to think that after mulling it over, we’d have to agree it’s highly unlikely.
More likely, as commenter krista tipped us to, is the Spurs acting as a third team in an Amare Stoudemire deal, where they would not receive Stoudemire but act as a facilitator in the deal. WOAI’s Don Harris has something:
Two different NBA sources told me Tuesday the Spurs have come up in the Amar’e Stoudemire sweepstakes. Not that the Spurs would get Amar’e, but that they may be part of a multi-team deal to make it possible for Phoenix to move him.
The Nets, Bulls, Heat and Pistons are said to be the front-runners for Stoudamire. The Spurs may be burning up the lines trying to find something that’s going to work.
One scenario of the Spurs acting as the third team in an Amare trade would see the Spurs receive Tyrus Thomas of the Chicago Bulls and send Matt Bonner and Ian Mahinmi to the Suns. Phoenix would send Stoudemire to Chicago.
This is just one scenario in which there are many alternatives, but I feel like this is much more likely than the Spurs getting Stoudemire in a straight-up swap with Phoenix.
As you can tell from the comments on the previous post about the Stoudemire rumor, a lot of Spurs fans do not hold affectionate feelings for the Suns power forward.
But how do you think the Suns fans feel about Manu Ginobili?
Former Spur Robert Horry is public enemy #1 for Suns fans when it comes to the Spurs, for obvious reasons, but after that, much of their venom for the Spurs is directed at San Antonio’s beloved Manu. Acquiring Ginobili, who is on the down slope of his career, for a entering-his-prime talent like Stoudemire would be a hard sell for Steve Kerr to make to Suns fans.
Could it still happen? Of course, stranger things have occurred. But logic and finances make it highly unlikely that we’ll see Stoudemire in San Antonio in anything other than an opposing team’s jersey.
71 Comments
January 27th, 2010 at 10:22 am
I hope they don’t trade for him.
He can’t defend or rebound.
I don’t see how this would improve the Spurs if they had to give up Manu.
As for getting Tyrus Thomas, I don’t know. Id rather have Bonner out there.
I like what David Aldrige said on NBA TV. He said that Antawn Jamison would fit the SPurs nicely.
Ive always wanted Jamison in a Spurs uni.
I thought Jefferson was going to be like Jamison, boy was I wrong. Unfortunately, The Wiz would have to take RJ. WHich they prob won’t do.
I heard Kurt THomas is def on the move. The SPurs should try and get him instead. I could see Bonner and Hairston for THomas.
I’m betting they won’t make any moves though.
I don’t think the Spurs need another player that will play 10 mins one game, then sit out the next game, then play 25 minutes and put up 20 points, then come in only in the 4th when the Spurs are down by 12 the next game, then start, then come off the bench………….you know what I mean.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Didn’t get to comment on the first Amare thread. I guess I’m in the majority who would prefer to not have Amare, at least not like this. Not for Manu. And not midseason. If you told me that Amare would be with the team during training camp, learning the priority of defense and learning post-play at the hands of Duncan, I’d be open to it. But his inability to play team or individual defense has always made him a guy that gives up nearly as much as he scores. His dunks make the highlights but his points allowed loses the game. This trade would further cement my belief that we’ve become the Suns: faster pace and more points but no lead is safe because we’re not committed to shutting people down for 48 minutes. That gurantees dismissal in the playoffs.
The new option of a three team trade sounds good, but Tyrus Thomas? Not sure about that. Bonner being injured started some of the downfall when the team was finding more cohesion on offense. Should he be included in a trade if all we get back is Thomas? Not sure that’s an improvement.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:31 am
i don’t imagine nothing will come of all this. the spurs won’t get amare and we will not lose any of our core. we will push threw this season and try next year. i love the spurs and am down for whatever choice they make. they are a smart orginazation. GO SPURS!!!
January 27th, 2010 at 10:33 am
This is what I thought the spurs would do in the Amare trade. They would trade and possibly get someone else’s draft picks which would help the spurs later on.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:55 am
I love how all 4 of the major options are East teams. This is smart for the Spurs and the Suns to get the All-Star out of the conference.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:59 am
I’d miss Bonner greatly, but for the athleticism of a Tyrus Thomas, I’d trade 2 Bonners. I know this is a hypothetical, but holy crap, this is a smashing hypothetical.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:10 am
I would not waste any time with Tyrus Thomas….if he has so much talent why are the Bullas always trying to get rid of him….
If we where to land a Superstar like Amare I would be for it but the Spurs need a big help….not a role player…
January 27th, 2010 at 11:12 am
@ThatBigGuy
The Spurs have an interest in Thomas and, I believe, tried to trade for him before (Tim says a couple seasons ago). If the Spurs are a third team in a deal involving Amare to the Bulls, Ty Thomas is San Antonio’s likely reward.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Also something to ponder Re: Ty Thomas, Sean Elliott and Bill Land were awfully complimentary of the guy (more so than most opposing players) during the telecast of Spurs-Bulls on Monday night.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:36 am
[...] possibility with probability; the odds of Amare landing in SanAn are extremely slim, and the Spurs may actually be more likely to expedite his trade to another team. Tags: Andrew Bogut, Dirk Nowitzki, Drew Gooden, Erick Dampier, Jason Terry, Kevin [...]
January 27th, 2010 at 11:42 am
I liked Tyrus Thomas better when he wasn’t taking half a dozen jump shots per game. A guy with his athleticism needs to be making hustle plays, chasing down loose balls and rebounding, not having plays run to get him 18-foot jumpers.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:55 am
@@@@@@@@@@@ ATTENTION @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ BEST TRADE EVER SPURS in SPURS HISTORY IF IT CAN HAPPEN!!!
For the SPurs not to trade MAnu or GEorge hill to the Suns for AMare, the Best option will be the following:
The only real way I can see this working without including Duncan, Parker or Ginobili or involving another team. The Spurs would most likely have to move Antonio McDyess, the increasingly useless Michael Finley, and the underachieving Richard Jefferson for a package of Stoudemire and Grant Hill.
So why would either team do it? Well, for the Suns, McDyess and Finley would be returning to Phoenix (McDyess for the third time), and they would get a potentially explosive scorer out of Jefferson who could be a better fit with a Steve Nash than he is with a Tony Parker. Stoudemire is all but out the door anyway, and Grant Hill’s contract expires this year. They still get another year out of RJ and Finley’s contract expires this year. McDyess could help fill the void in the frontcourt, or they could buy him out which could pave the way for the Spurs to bring him back.
GOOD IDEA HUH Spurs fan? ,MAGNIFICO!!! and think about,what if mcdyess get’s buy out,the SPurs can get MCDYESS BAck and add GRANT HILL to the roster OMG AWSOME AWSOME TRADE, the SPurs will be the BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE FOR SURE!!!! GO SPURS GO for the trade!!!! CHAMPS IN 2010 FOR SURE FOR SURE!!!!!
January 27th, 2010 at 11:57 am
I still say Brendan Haywood is the big man that would help the Spurs the most. His contract is reasonable and expires at the end of the year. He is a true big man who would enable us to match up with the Lakers, Cavs, Magic, and Celtics better.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
I like Ty Thomas’ athleticism for the Spurs, especially with a front court of old men right now. Thomas is raw athletic ability who could blossom with the right team. He is much more of what the Spurs need than Amare is. I think Thomas is a lot like what we thought we were getting in Mahinmi. This trade intrigues me…a lot!
January 27th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Woah, if we get Tyrus Thomas and only have to give up Bonner and Mahinmi then I’m all for this trade.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
Andrew -
I believe Sean and Bill were complimentary of Thomas because they were talking about his all-time nba team in which Tyrus chose Gervin and Tim as a part of that team.
They said they like him more because of his choices. - unless of course you heard something else.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Too bad Pop never really gave Mahinmi a chance. But Mahinmi + Bonner for Thomas, why not. Doesn’t matter since Pop is still going to play small ball no matter what. But if we got a big from Chicago I’d rather get Noah.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
FWIW: The Spurs were rumored to have interest in Tyrus Thomas two seasons ago. I’m not sure it ever got to the point of an official offer. Rumors are rumors.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
the fact of the mater is the spurs need to do something with either manu or jefferson and i dont think either is safe. i would love to see a straight up trade of manu for jamison. i would not mind trading for al jefferson, he is a good scorer, can rebound and defends well.
anything bringing amare to the spurs is pure cancer. he would not stay anyway so it is rentaplayer.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
TT? I think the Spurs have too many jump-shooters already. Also with the (lack of) BQ he has, there’s no way he can adjust to the Spurs’ system. Bad idea, especially when it’s Bonner they are sending.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
I dont understand why anyone would have a problem trading the extremely inconsistent Matt Bonner and the never played Ian Mahinmi. Matt Bonner has no post presence what so ever, doesnt run the pick and roll very well, and hits the three occasionally. There are flashes of brilliance, but he has been by far the most inconsistent Spur for the past few years now. Ian Mahinmi clearly isn’t impressing Pop and is not going to see playing time and the D-League isnt an option. I’m all for this trade, especially since there is not really a big difference in salaries for the Spurs.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
I think Okefor would be a better fit than Amare. I can’t hit the Trade Machine but if we could pull this off, I would feel much better about our chances. Okefor is a blocking/rebounding machine which is what we need right now.
Of course David Lee would be a nice fit as well (on the offensive side). I’m sure someone can convince NY to trade Lee for a case of beer and tickets to the rodeo (or something equally worthless). They’re stupid enough to do it.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
Yall would rather have Tyrus Thomas over Amare??? are you serious he is and all-star for crying out loud and i know Manu is beloved in Spurs world but he is not the same player so why throw this season away with a sub-par roster instead of getting a proven all-star in Amare…and i hear this stuff about his defense but i guess Mcdysse and Bonner is Mutombo now (not quite lol)…yall are killing me wise up people the league is passing us by.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
I’m sorry but I really dont see how no one seems to think that the trade I mentioned in multiple sections of Amare to the Spurs for the combination of Jefferson, Blair, and Manihimi isn’t even an option.
The Spurs get a great balance on the front line with Amare providing unbelievable offensive fire power and Theo Ratliff along with Mcdyess when the team wants a more defensive presence next to Duncan.
Also Duncan and Amare have very complimentary offensive games.
For the Suns if they think Amare is going to walk this offseason Richard Jefferson along with two frontcourt prospects in Blair and Manihimi isn’t a bad package. Manihimi is an unknown but Jefferson and Blair would be great in the Suns system playing with Steve Nash.
As a sweetner I would possibly throw in our 1st rounder since the Suns will be giving their’s to the Thunder. I wouldn’t mind not having a pick in the draft due to the hopeful contributions next season from Splitter, Malik and possibly James Gist.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
I agree Cory I just don’t understand all the Amare hate…bottom line the roster as it stands now will not win it all.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
AMARE CAN’T DEFEND!!!
What good is 20 points when Amare is giving up 30?
January 27th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
I forgot Mcdysse and Bonner are great defensively wtf???…i would rather get 20 and give up 30 as opposed to getiing 10 and giving up 30…please tell me yall aren’t serious!!!
January 27th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
I only like it if they keep MANU.
They can’t win without Manu. We all saw that last year.
Manu will get a key steal or take a charge late in the game. He has what little swagger the Spurs have left.
If you really think about it, maybe they shouldn’t have made any moves. All the Spurs needed was a healthy MANU.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Cory, we can’t throw in our 1st pick this year because we traded our ‘09 1st rounder.
I don’t like the idea of getting Amare regardless of what we give up. Defense is only one issue. The bigger issues are his attitude, me-first approach to offense, and his belief that he is worth a max contract. Then throw in his injury issues. Taken as a whole it isn’t with the risk. Talent aside, I’d rather add a piece that could fit in.
I also think TP’s foot is part of the problem. He was given play calling responsibilities this year and cannot perform to his capabilities. Add in the pressure everyone is feeling and they end up pressing. They’ve shown flashes of brilliance but it seems to be mental blocks with some guys and, like last year, too much tinkering on Pops part for anyone to feel comfortable. I don’t see Amare as someone to fix those issues. I also doubt Kerr would trade him in conference or the Spurs giving up too much to get him.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
my mouth waters at the thought of getting tyrus thomas. i agree with an earlier post that he is a better, proven version of ian mahinmi. bonner has to go. he shoots a great 3-ball, but he is still too much of a liability. i say we still need some more back court defense. if we could acquire a another sf or shooting guard for some expiring contracts, that would be great.
lets get tyrus thomas!
January 27th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
All of the Amare hate is getting pretty funny.
This is the guy that averaged over 23 points a game against us in the playoffs with Shaq clogging up the lane, do I need to remind everyone of that this is the guy that scored 38 against us in an elimation game in 07, or the fact that he has scored 30+ against us in many playoff games vs us and our respected defense.
I mean who cares if he’s been selected for the All NBA 1st team AFTER he came back from his knee issues!
Who cares that this is a potentially low risk swing for the fences move since Amare will likely be a free agent after this season.
Get serious people!
January 27th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
@Krista, good point about the Spurs not being able to give up a 2010 1st round, a protected 2011 1st rounder works for me.
If we can get bailed out of this Jefferson deal and get a player like Amare that is a win win. And like I mentioned earlier if we dont resign him, we are only a Mcdyess salary dump trade away from being players for Chris Bosh or Joe Johnson, or doing a sign and trade with the team that Amare wants to go to.
I would hate to see Blair go but you have to give up something to get something, and if his inclusion seals the deal then that would be the definition of buying low and selling high.
And for all the people freaked out about Manu leaving, in my opinion the Suns would much rather prefer Jefferson due to the durability issue and the fact that Manu would be able to walk in the offseason with no compensation which is their main reason for potentially trading Amare.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
I know it’s just theoretical, but Thomas, while he’s a freak athlete and could presumably help greatly in guarding the types of mobile four’s and combo forwards that always kill the Spurs, he’s just too small to be an ideal compliment to Duncan.
The Spurs always say and I agree with this, that you build your team with beating the best in mind. So say they play the Lakers, is 6′8” 215 Thomas really going to be able to defend Gasol? No chance.
Stoudemire isn’t ideal, either. The reasons for why this more than likely won’t come to fruition have already been covered, but here’s what no one mentions: he’s defenseless, lacks focus and is a sub par rebounder. What the Spurs need is a long (6′11” or up) rim protector/shot blocker, who can at least play passable man defense and stay out of Duncan’s way offensively, not compete with him to be the go-to guy. Camby or Haywood are ideal and best of all, the Spurs (theoretically) have the assets to acquire either one.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
I agree that Camby or Haywood would be ideal but if you can get a 27 yr old all-star by only giving up RJ, Blair and Ian it would be totally ridiculous for us not to make that move…and if we can’t sign him back next year we can still go after bosh since he has already said he would love to come to a Texas team.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Tyrus Thomas is fools gold.
People fall in love with athleticism come draft time only to fall out of love 3 seasons later when a player shows hands of stone and no jumpshot.
Thomas is all project all the time. He never got it defensively in chicago, he has a low basketball IQ and is terrible at finishing strong at the rim.
What in the world do the spurs need an athletic forward who can’t stretch the floor or finish well for?
Are they going to play him with Tim? How easy do you want to make it for other teams to double team ?
January 27th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Just as an aside. To all those preaching about how great Amare is offensively.
Scoring points right now is not the spurs main problem.
Stopping other teams scoring points is.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
I don’t understand the hate for Amare but the love for Thomas. Thomas is an even bigger head case than Amare and he’s never been close to the player Amare has. I could see being skeptical about Amare but for Thomas? Please…
January 27th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I’ve always had a man crush for Thomas. He’s an excellent defender with a huge wingspan. I’m not saying hes a basketball genius, but horrible coaching hasnt exactly helped him adjust to the NBA. Remember how horrible TP’s jumper was a few years ago? Now its average on a bad night, above average on a good night. We’ve got the best coaches in the league, including Chip Engelland (i’m sure i misspelled that). Thomas may not move us over the hump this year, but he is someone like Trevor Ariza (except more athletic and better against post players). Thomas and Noah split duties guarding the pf/c for other teams. And before TT got hurt this year, he had shown improvement in his jumper. If Pop wants to play small, TT is the perfect Center for that (i know everyone here hates it when Pop plays small, though). Thomas/Blair/Hill/Manu/Mason off the bench in any combination is going to be absolutely explosive. I love Bonner- i’ve defended him on here more than probably anyone else, but Thomas can just do more. Even if his jumper never improves- he is a SOLID defensive player. He may not be able to stop Bynum or Gasol- but he can stop Odom. If Pop wants to go big, He can put Theo/Duncan/Thomas/Hill and any of the combination of Parker/Manu/Mason out there he wants. If he wants to play small, its Parker/Manu/Hill/RJ or Blair/ and Thomas.
I really hope this deal goes through. Like i said- it may not put us over the hump this year, but it doesnt hurt us for this season and it definitely builds for the future. I think it is the best of both worlds.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
@Cory - I recall one of the reasons that a younger Amare scored all those points against the Spurs was due to Pop’s philosophy: don’t double team and let him go one on one. He scores 30+ but allows just as many, ball movement doesn’t happen and the Suns never got their 3-pt game going. He still made mental lapses on defense including rebounding position and could get muscled into a dumb play, often by Horry. Is this the guy you want to trust in the 4th quarter of a WCF playoff road game?
I would also point out that he scores many of his points thanks to Nash’s passing. Other than Manu, the Spurs don’t have a Guard who is anywhere near that good at passing. Parker already misses Blair and Duncan at times in the paint. This would take Amare out of the ease he’s had during his career with Nash.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
@errin
Amare is 36th AMONG PF’s (!!!!!!) in rebound rate while Dice is 20th. Offensively, Bonner is ahead of Amare in True Shooting %, Assist Ratio, AND Turnover Ratio. More importantly, both Bonner and Dice spread the floor at least to 18 feet, letting Manu, Tony, and Duncan work their magic in the paint. Basically, all Amare can do is score. He can’t help the team in any other area of the game, period.
The whole point of a trade is to improve your team, not take a step sideways. Trading for more defensively challenged players can’t help, no matter how much they score. We are 7th in offensive efficiency (ahead of the likes of LA, Dallas, and Boston) but 9th in defensive efficiency (behind teams such as Dallas, LA, Cleveland, and Boston).
We need defense. Tyrus Thomas, Camby, Haywood are all worth looking at.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Thomas is good at defense? I know the Bulls were better defensively last year when he wasn’t on the floor. He still hasn’t gotten it in Chicago, but he’s going to come into San Antonio and learn a much more complex system in half a season? At 210 pounds and at 6′9 he guards Gasol or would he guard Bynum?
@SpursfanSteve - you say Thomas has had horrible coaching and that’s part of the reason why he’s a waste of athletic ability. Couldn’t you use that logic about Amare’s short comings? I’ve seen Amare become a much better player over the years (can’t say the same about Thomas) but has anyone in the Suns organization ever taught him about defense? Demanded it? How about Rebounding? If (and it’s a big if) the Spurs could land Amare for the same package as they could for Thomas they’d be fools to go with Thomas.
I’d love to see Amare on a defensive team (don’t know if the Spurs qualify as that anymore) next to a great Center. To me if the Suns want to sell Amare for pennies on the dollar than the Spurs should do it because they’re not doing anything beyond a cup of coffee in the playoffs as is.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
The thing is we cant get Amare for the same package. Plus, he’s gone at the end of the year because hes going to take more money than we will be able to offer. He might of might not help us a lot this year. He WILL NOT help us next year. I’d rather pay less than half as much and get a better rebounder and just as good of a shot blocker.
The main difference between the two is the ego. And whos Amare going to guard? Nobody. Because he doesnt. Ever. Remember when the Suns had Terry Porter and were trying to be a little more defensive oriented? Remember who never adjusted? It wasnt Shaq. It was Amare. Even Shaq and Nash called him out for not playing D. And when Nash calls you out for not playing D, you know you are bad.
Like i said- worst case scenario is he is an inside version of Trevor Ariza. Best case scenario he ends up somewhere between what Blair does on offense and what Hill does on defense.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
@David G
Thomas is listed at 6′10″ and 225 lbs on ESPN.com. He’s averaging 1.9 blocks, 1.3 steals, and 5.0 defensive rebounds, compared to Amare’s .96 blocks, .74 steals, and 6.0 defensive rebounds. The kicker is that Amare averages 35 mins a game compared to Thomas’ 24 mins a game. Another thing: Amare won’t be getting 35 mins a game for the Spurs, so all of his numbers will go down. He’s gonna find it much harder to score without Nash feeding him the ball and that’s going to diminish the rest of his relatively weak game.
Amare is no good for the Spurs.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
@SpursfanSteve-Getting Ty Thomas does nothing for us the Spurs this year either. He’s not going to be the defensive presence the Spurs need to beat good teams nor the offensive presence to try and out score good teams. Also Ty Thomas probably won’t be helping us next year either.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
David- See ThatbigGuys post. Without Nash, there is no Amare. We dont need Thomas to do anything but rebound and block shots. He’s a better defensive presence than Amare. He might not “intimidate” people and keep them from driving, but hes going to do as good or better at actually protecting the rim. Other than “star power” there is nothing Amare does for us that cant be gotten elsewhere. We dont need more star power, we dont need more dunks- we need someone to actually play defense.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
Would it also be too much to ask to try and nab Hinrich while we’re at it?
Also- if you arent watching the Hawks game- this is the Spurs playing at their best right now.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
SpursfanSteve, this would be the flash of brilliance I was speaking (or writing) of. Let’s hope we can finish this game without the mental blocks rearing their ugly head.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Number one, the spurs do not need an athletic big man they are fine. They need a dependable jump shooter who places good defense…a 3 or very athletic 4. I will repeat my desperate plea to pop to move RJ to the bench along wit george hill. Then, if possible get a trade which get prince (and if possible hamilton) to Spurs and give up bonner, finely, and hailsip and/or mahimi. I think that might instantly fix their problems. A starting line up of parker hamilton/mason jr. prince duncan and blair, with the second team being hill manu RJ mcdysse and ratliff…the spurs could get a fourth big man anywhere (perhaps kurt thomas as previously mentioned)
January 27th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Renato, Prince and Hamilton’s salaries make up almost $23 million/year. It is known around the League that the Hamilton deal is awful since it goes for 3 more years. On top of this, Tayshaun has only played 11 games this year due to a back injury. There is no way the Spurs could or would even remotely think about the trade you suggest. The Spurs already have enough wing men. They need a PF or C to compete with the leagues heavy weights.
January 27th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
The arguments for both scenarios of Thomas or Amare are compelling, but I tend to agree with the camp that says the last thing the Spurs need is another “all-star” trying to find their reduced role in a complicated system - especially if that “all-star” doesn’t commit to defense first. But saying all of that, there are a couple of things that do seem to be a bit more clear afterall:
1) Manu CAN’T finish at the rim like he used to and it’s frustrating the hell out of him.
2) Jefferson should be benched if he doesn’t consistently drive the ball inside to either finish or kick it out. We dont need another inaccurate jump shooter chucking up long 2’s!
3) Team chemistry is disturbingly cohesive when
Parker isn’t in the game…. just sayin.
4)Duncan is still the anchor of this team and a dominant force in the NBA, eat your heart out Chris Broussard!
January 27th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
You can’t have it both way people. You can’t complain all day about small ball and then say that a trade of Jefferson and Amare as the principles wouldn’t help.
I will be the first to admit Amare has his share of issues but him next to Duncan could be devastating, not to mention Duncan is the ultimate winner and team player and with Amare carrying the load on offense Timmy would have much more energy to exert on the defensive end.
Like I said earlier it is laughable that so many would be against a trade bringing in Amare without giving up any of the big 3, are you serious? If over the summer somone told me we traded Bruce Bowen, Fab, Thomas, Manihimi, and our 2nd Rnd pick for Amare (the 08 All NBA 2nd Team & 07 All NBA 1st Team Center) I would not believe you.
Also stop acting like Amare got all of his points from lobs and alley opps as if he was Tyson Chandler, while Amare does best in pick and roll situations he also a very acomplished outside shooter.
I understand we have had some hotly contested battles against the Suns but don’t let that completly skew your perception of what this deal would do for the Spurs.
January 27th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
Even if the Spurs acquire Amar’e, he earns about 34 mil this season and the next. It’s likely he’ll opt out next season, but if he does exercise his option, that comes to about 65 mil in total for the 4 highest-paid players in Spurs (I’m assuming Manu is traded and TD, TP & RJ kept here).
Yeah, that will definitely work out.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
@Ian, trading Manu for Amare isn’t likely. The more likely scenario would be a combination centered around Jefferson, so yeah that would work out.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
Renato, Haislip is no longer with the Spurs. He asked for and was granted a release. He signed with a Greek team.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:04 pm
@Cory Clay and who’s going to be the Spurs’ starting SF? Finley? Who’s going to play frickkin’ defense???
Unless the Spurs can ship RJ + expiring contracts for Amar’e AND Jared Dudley (without giving up young talents like Hill or Blair), it will not work. And I seriously doubt that the Suns would want to part with Dudley.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Guys stop pumping up Tyrus Thomas’ tyres.
He is not a great defender….
He got written off by one of the more defensive minded coachs in todays game (Scott Skiles) who had chicago playing league leading level defence prior to getting the boot, and has since significantly upgraded the defensive statistics of Milaukee.
Tyrus is all potential..but after three years he is still having the same issues he had as a first year pro.
Firstly he has no jumpshot…at all..it’s horrible and yet he cannot be convinced of this and continues to settle for mid range shots, he is exactly the kind of guy the spurs love to play against.
Secondly he blows assignments and his effort level fluctuates in direct relation to how well his game is going on the offensive end. He is frustration incarnate.
For someone who is at least 6′8 and has grasshopppers for legs his finishing at the rim is nothing short of dissapointing. He so often settles instead of taking it strong. If he had Dejaun Blairs kind of instinct and motor he would be a killing machine but you could say that of so many other players.
Athleticism is not the holy grail.
Timmy couldn’t jump over a box of matches.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
@Ian, The Spurs would have a variety of options, the SF position is one of the most diverse in the league, right now as currently constructed the Spurs actually use Manu and Mason as SF’s with Jefferson playing a good amount of minutes as a PF.
Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, a Spurs team with Amare would allow Duncan to focus a good amount of his energy on defense, along with Manu, George Hill and at times Bogans, we’d be covered on defensively on the perimeter and both Mcdyess and Ratliff are both above average defenders.
Bonner and Finley would be used at times to stretch the floor, NEVER TO BE PLAYED AT THE SAME TIME.
You’re telling me that’s not a team with a ton of flexibility and a potential powerhouse???
Like Gob Bluth would say, COME ON!!!!!
January 27th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
I doubt Milwaukee would do another trade with the Spurs, but if they feel like shedding their star player for a salary dump, I’d like to see the Spurs try to pick up Bogut and M’bah a Moute for Bonner, Finley, Bogans, Mahinmi, Hairston, and then Ratlif. While the Spurs are giving a lot of players up for those two, I think they’d be addressing two very important areas of weakness in their system: a lack of an additional intimidator in the paint and an athletic defender on the wing who can cover outside bigs. I also think that, given the recent performances of the players sacrificed, I think it would be a terrific bargain. Bogut could rebound and defend the paint well and Moute could defend athletic bigs while also being a great addition for small-ball. I think this trade would give the Spurs some great talent for a relatively low cost. What do you guys think?
January 28th, 2010 at 1:42 am
I doubt very much the suns would take RJ.
And nobody has done anything to dispel my belief that hes horrible for the locker room. If you cant be happy playing with Steve Nash, who can you be happy playing with? He’s going to stay disgruntled anywhere he goes until a team makes him THE man. Right now, Nash is the man in phoenix and thats why Amare wants out.
January 28th, 2010 at 2:18 am
Why can’t any of you understand that no one would want RJ for FREE! That is, if the Spurs were allowed by the NBA to trade RJ for a cup of soup to any team, no team would take it. NONE. Why? Because he is an average or below average NBA player getting paid a ridiculous salary.
To further make matters worse he is NOT an expiring contract. For those of you that don’t know, it is BETTER to have a contract expiring sooner rather than later if the player is not worth the contract.
So, you have Amare who is an all-star and actually worth his salary. But even if it is not, he is an expiring contract.
So, why would the Suns trade an expiring contract of an all-star player for a non-expiring contract for a sub-average NBA player that is worth nothing close to his salary?
There is no way in hell that the Suns would make any deal regarding RJ for Amare. Zero possibility. Why do you think you guys got RJ in the first place for players the Bucks just dropped or didn’t want? Because he is not worth his salary and they wanted to get rid if him.
If i were the Suns and i had a choice of trading for RJ with Amare or doing nothing, i would choose NOTHING. Amare’s salary would role off next year, and they would have his money to spend/save.
January 28th, 2010 at 3:20 am
Let’s says Manu to the Suns (for Stoudemire) is unlikely.
And let’s say I hope it doesn’t happen.
I’d still like to have a glimpse of what would Manu do in the Arizona basketball style.
So lets continue the letsays.
Let’s say he goes orange and purple.
Let’s say he instantly puts a 25 points 5 rebs 7 ast for the last thirty games.
Let’s say he doesn’t get injured anymore (Grant Hill/ Shaq style: injuries, then Phoenix, then no more injuries).
Let’s say Amare kills the Spurs defense and locker room.
Then the Spurs get tossed out in the first round by [insert team here].
And the Suns being even more appealing with Manu doing Manu stuff in the desert (knocking down cactuses?) and everybody drooling at the Suns style.
Let’s say everybody now looks at the Spurs like dumbs.
Let’s says Manu/Amare does not happen.
Let’s say I never wrote this whole thing.
January 28th, 2010 at 5:42 am
as a pistons fan they’re isn’t much hope for my team, but one possible way out of this would be to trade Rip and Tayshaun for Richard Jefferson, Finley and Bonner. This way the Spurs FO wouldn’t have to trade away Ginobli and it’d be one last retooling while trying to get the most out of what Duncan has left. Jefferson would come off our bench, and spurs would have a linup of Parker, Hamilton, Prince, Duncan, Mcdyess/Blair with Manu off the bench.
Not sure if the Spurs would do it, but I’d think if any team knows how effective those players can be on both ends of the court it’s the Spurs.
January 28th, 2010 at 8:19 am
@Kaveh as impressive as it is to know that you are aware of where the “caps lock” button is on your keyboard it is funny that you talk as if you have sources within the NBA and are able to determine how each team has assesed Richard Jefferson. I can’t wait for your future posts so I can get some more of your “in-the-know” perspective.
I will be waiting anxiously to hear what teams around the League will be doing before the trade deadline, please don’t keep me waiting too long.
January 28th, 2010 at 9:10 am
I wouldn’t mind Tyrus Thomas after it’s all said and done he’s athletic plays good defensively and rebounds well and occasionally can score for you I think he would be very productive with what we do.
January 28th, 2010 at 9:11 am
@Kaveh
In your post you ask why the Suns would trade Amare and you also asked us why do Spurs fans think we got Jefferson for so little and then later in your post you mention how the Suns can just let Amare’s contract expire and then sign a comparable player, I am going to take the time and answer these questions for you.
- First of all the Suns, from reports, seem to be under the impression that they will not be able to sign Amare if he opts out of his contract this summer and that the money he might want is more than they are willing to spend, so if you are the Suns getting a player that would potentially do well in your system is better than letting a player walk for no compensation.
While RJ may be overpaid, it is way more difficult to just take a player’s annual salary and then make an assesment on how a team would feel about that player’s contract being on their books.
Maybe the Suns would prefer to pay RJ one more year and then use his expiring deal next year as trade bait, or maybe Sarver just wants to cut expenses. RJ makes $2 million less than Amare, I’m sorry $2 million dollars is $2 million dollars. That’s not even factoring that Sarver’s overall financial commitment would be $14 million vs maybe $60-$70 million long term tied up in an Amare extension.
- When considering how we got RJ the same concepts must be factored in, when a team is in rebuilding mode, financially the main goal is usually to cut costs, stock up on players on low salary contracts through the draft, and then bring in a player like RJ when you’re ready to contend. By the time the Bucks are ready to contend, Jefferson won’t be close to the player that he is now. Also you keep discussing Jefferson’s value around the league, guess what? The whole league knows that most players don’t perform up to their ability the first year on a new team, especially when that team is the Spurs who have very complicated offenisve and defensive sets.
-Thirdly if you were familiar with what the salary cap was you would know that a player cant just let a contract expire and then go use that money on another player when they are over the cap and that is what the Suns are with Nash, Richardson, and Barbosas, and etc. on the payroll.
Hope that was helpful.
January 28th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Where does Splitter fit into this whole situation? Is he going to be here next year? If so why trade for a big man when you have so many already?
January 28th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
I previously stated I have no idea how the contracts were worth. But the spurs need to move RJ to the bench and get a SF. The spurs won 2 championships without 2 domminant big man so I do not understand the call for a PF/C thats fine.
The spurs need to place inside out. Im so tired of seeing parker or jefferson or manu dribble around the perimiter and pull up for a jumper. Their strength and abillity is to get to the hoop and draw fouls. Currently on the team, the only dependable jump shooter is mason jr and finnely, but finnely is too old and a liabillity on defense. They need 2 starters, when duncan and parkery are in who can sit on the perimiter and hit shots. Then mvoing RJ manu and hill together gives them that fast break team. I hope the spurs use Bonner and Finnely and Mahimi if they need to, to aquire a dependable jump shooter and move RJ to the bench in favor of Mason Jr.
January 28th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
It would not take long for Pop et al. to teach Amare how to play defense. He has the physical ability to be a dominant low post defender, but he plays for the Suns, an organization that doesn’t stress defense.
That said, expect to give up some young talent and a sizable expiring contract or why would the Suns want to do it?
January 28th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
I’m watching the Phoenix/Dallas game now. Since Amare sat down, Dallas has had trouble scoring, inside, outside, anywhere. Could be momentum, could be coincidence, but right now the Suns look like they are locking them down. Dirk isnt scoring, Barea and Terry are getting cut off on their way to the basket, and everything is getting challenged. Amare is a stat monster, but from what i’ve seen from this game and every other game i’ve ever watched him in (including all those against the Spurs) he’s never been anything more than that. He’ll get you lots of points for fantasy basketball, but he’s not a guy like Manu who can impact the game with a boxscore full of 0’s.
January 28th, 2010 at 11:33 pm
i dont think letting up manu ginobili go away will change the views of many that spurs office is the best in dealing or getting players.what a poor decision would that be,i tell you right now ,manu is totally different when playoff comes.Men!he is the guy we need not amare who can’t play defense what we need is another big guy that can compliment well with duncan,dyess,blair and bonner.frontrunners to that are the guys like chris andersen,nene,camby and scola.i would like to suggest a trade for andersen he is an energy guy off the bench alongside with blair.he can match up odom,bynum,even howard and kg defensively.and if ever spurs will land up thomas that aquisition for me is good.athletic,can boost energy and can play defense.think well spurs.
January 29th, 2010 at 5:37 am
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