Tuesday, February 23rd, 2010...10:27 am
Spurs Face a Possible Bidding War For Splitter
Already having trouble in keeping up with the arms race at home, the Spurs may soon find themselves locked in a bidding war with deeper pockets overseas.
Spurs fans hoping for a foreign born center to add to the rotation next year might have to settle on another season of hoping for Ian Mahinmi to come around. According to a report from Noticias de Alava, Tiago Splitter is drawing heavy interest from Real Madrid, who plan to pursue the young Brazilian big man this summer.
VITORIA. Un equipo que maneja presupuestos más propios de un banco puede conseguir todo lo que se proponga. Puede crear una galaxia entera en sólo un verano, o atraer a su regazo a los mejores jugadores del panorama continental. Incluso a aquellos que tienen marcado a fuego en su piel el logotipo de la NBA, como es el caso de Tiago Splitter. El pívot brasileño, cuyo concurso el próximo jueves ante el Khimki sigue en el aire, es el nuevo y principal objeto de deseo de un club que el pasado domingo vio cómo el todopoderoso Barcelona le pasaba por encima como una apisonadora. Según ha podido saber este periódico, el Real Madrid, alentado por un Ettore Messina consciente de que en el despacho más grande del Bernabéu hay un hombre dispuesto a satisfacerle, ha engrasado durante esta Copa del Rey la maquinaria necesaria para completar una operación que puede culminar con el cinco baskonista en Madrid a final de temporada.
Thanks to the magic of the Google translator, a rough translation of the article can be found here. The article mentions the deep pockets of Real Madrid, one of the wealthiest and most successful sports clubs in Europe in both soccer and basketball, and Tiago Splitter’s young age, which would allow him to stay overseas a few more years while still affording him the opportunity to come to the NBA in his prime.
The article states that the buyout of Splitter’s contract is much higher if he signs with another European team as opposed to an NBA team, but in a parting shot that references Real Madrid’s soccer expenditures, it ends with a statement that would make most Spurs fans cringe.
But for a man who pays 94 million euros for a player, any amount that has a single digit next to the word million is a pittance.
The Spurs will be armed with the full midlevel exception and the appeal of the NBA, which should make for an interesting summer.
64 Comments
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:59 am
I guess the Spurs are going to face an awful dilemma with Tiago this summer. Tiago is going to be the starting center for the Brazilian national team this summer no matter what. The Brazilians have put together a nice team for the Worlds and hired Ruben Magnano (Argentine who coached Manu et all for many many years and helped the team get the Silver in 2002 worlds and Gold in 2004 Olympics)
Not sure the Spurs FO will open the wallet to sign Tiago before the Worlds and that could prevent the team to bring the gifted forward center to the team. Real Madrid could be open to sign him before the worlds and take the risk of an injury. I am dead sure Peter Holt doesn’t want to spend cap space in a player that could get hurt in the Worlds, specially when the Spurs are so needy for a reliable big.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:59 am
Should Splitter sign a several year contract in Europe, and should the FO decide that we don’t want to wait on him for another few years, are the rights to Splitter of any trade value at all?
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:08 am
I really like this kid for some reason. One of the reasons he stands out so much in Europe is his defense. I dont know how well that will translate here in the NBA, but you could say that I am anxious.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:11 am
DieHardSpur: Tiago is really really good. He is regarded as the best big man in the Euroleague.
That said, consider that Fab Oberto was the best 5 in Europe and Scola the best 4. Usually, Europe talents translate into really good role players, not superstars.
Of course there are exceptions: Manu and Gasol for example.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:18 am
So is there really any good news for Spurs fans? I would like to take this gun out of my mouth…
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:41 am
@AP-Ginobili is playing much better as of late.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:59 am
I don’t care. For the past few seasons the SPurs have been taunting us with “wait for IAN” and “wait for Splitter” talk.
Whoever it is, just put em on the floor already.
Geez.
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 pm
Perhaps, foreign players should only be allowed to put their names in the draft/have their names in the draft if they are coming over for sure. If they get drafted and decide not to come, then they should have to pay the team that drafted them. This would not help with the Splitter situation, but could prevent problems like this and MN situation with Rubio.
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@SpurLady, it’s not that simple. The CBA messes up everything with regard to foreign players.
In the case of Tiago, the rookie salary was a joke compared to what he was able to make in Europe. I believe he was supposed to make 900k in the NBA and had an offer to sign with Tau Ceramica for around 4 to 5 M a year.
I guess the case with Rubio is much complicated because he was a lottery pick and MN seemed to ignore the fact that he had a huge exit clause in his contract.
It depends on what the FO plans to do. I guess it worked perfect for the Spurs to wait for Manu, right?
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:05 pm
A lot just depends on what Splitter wants. Does he just want money or does he have a desire to play in the NBA? The FO needs to get some answers out of him and make a move this summer. Playing the waiting game for foreign players is not enjoyable for anyone.
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:21 pm
we need tiago in order to match up with gasol and also so we have a viable frontcourt of blair and splitter after duncan retires. We will trade jeffersons expiring contract next season for some good players and get a good american and foreign player in the draft. We will at best get past the 1st round this season and make the finals next season. this is our roadmap for the next season. Bonner,finley and mahinmis contract expire and out of pure idiocracy bogans will be resigned. This all depends on whether ginobili resigns with us next season. From the jefferson trade we will get a two forwards and two guards. Mcdyess will be included in the jefferson trade as well. We’ll win finals next season. When the healthy tony is back… The world may never know.
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:30 pm
zainn,
how are you figuring tony will be healthy even though he has already committed to playing international ball this summer?
And to say that RJ’s contract will bring us that many players, even if we include Dyess’ contract with it, is overly ambitious (i think.) Even if we got that many players back, it would be way too many for our roster, or at least our rotation. If RJ’s contract gets us a role player (like Thabo Sefolosha, Andres Nocioni, or someone similar) and a draft pick, i’ll be happy.
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:08 pm
the only reason splitter would come to the NBA is to face better competition. and if we have to wait for ian mahinmi to come around, shouldn’t we give him some minutes now while our season is basically going to the tiago shitter? i don’t think our franchise sees making the playoffs a success, so why continue to give minutes to dice and bonner and let finley occupy our bench?. we aren’t winning the championship, so why not take some gambles and play ian and malik? a lottery draft pick sounds like a much better end result of this season.
i also thinks its pretty crazy that the only players that are definate to come back nxt year is blair, duncan, and hill. no one else is garaunteed
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Jesse,
Thank you. Crisis averted. A sick Ginobili drive brightens any day…
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:30 pm
WOW…More management blunders comming back to bite. Splitter probably is not comming to San Antonio.
Even if he turns down the Euro paycheck overseas, Houston will pay him more to come and play with Scola. Doesnt look good.
Even former Spur Dewayne Jones was picked up by the Mavs today. This coach and FO have been squandering talent for too long and it has caught up to them. Losing Splitter should be the last straw.
Having said all of that,
I need somebody to help me to understand why this coach would decide not to play Mahimi and Hairston throughout the season. This coach continues to run Bonner and Bogans up and down the floor, he released a potential stud in Marcus Haislip. He traded a defensive presence and proven rebounder in Ratliff (Who now logs good minutes for the bobcats), he released Marcus Williams, and he continues to flat out waste the talent of Malik Hariston.
All of this, and NOBODY…I mean NOBODY has anything to say about this FO or the Coach. The media wont cover it and I havent heard one word out of our big 3. Can you imagine what would be in the media if it were Kobe, Labron, Paul Pierce, or D Wade losing like this. Do ya think Kobe would be OK sith Bonner and Bogans starting with him?
If our best players are OK with losing to appease a coach, that is a sign of doom!
Pop and the “3″ might be buddies, but as competitive pro basketball players, they cant be OK with the guys that they are playing with…Blair and Mcdyess should play 30 minutes a game.
It is pathetic.
We may be 3 games behind the Mavs, but right now the Mavs are a better team, better talent, better coaching.
My last note is in ref to our 4 time NBA champion coach.
Chill a little…Give up on playing guys that are sorry basketball players. They are low level subs in this league at best.
Calm down..Your Dictator type coaching style is wearing on your players, keeping potential players from comming here to play, and is the reason you lost Bruce Bowen. I do believe whole heartedly that you know you blew it releasing Bowen.
Then you sell us this absolute crap about Bogans being a Bowen like defender. Maddness!
Stop yelling and scolding players during games. It is classless and disrespectful. They are NBA players, not High Schoolers.
Finally, stop bullying the press and keeping everything secret. It is old and we are sick of it.
We are the fan base and we want to know what the hell is going on with our Team.
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:56 pm
I suspect we are purposefully flying way way under the radar… so low we may just crash
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:02 pm
All the more reason to use Splitter’s rights as trade bait along with Jefferson to pursue Chris Bosh via free agency.
The likelihood of Splitter next year seems as likely as Yiannis Bouroussis joining the Spurs did this year.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Ballhog this is why you need to read some of the other info that’s out there.
“WOW…More management blunders comming back to bite. Splitter probably is not comming to San Antonio.
Even if he turns down the Euro paycheck overseas, Houston will pay him more to come and play with Scola. Doesnt look good.”
Mate you need to understand the salary cap structure and contractual angles.
They are the things effecting every bit of change or lack of it within the franchise.
We do not have to bid with another NBA team. We own the rights to Tiago Splitter. The catch was that we had to wait a prerequisite amount of time before he became exempt to the rookie tax scale.
So we still maintain his rights, we just no longer have to pay him a rookie wage.
Houston can’t grab him, but another euroleague team can. This is not news. We always were faced with this issue.
The cap is the thing that stops us from signing a free agent next year while maintaining Manu, unless we get some bite on RJ as an expiring.
I don’t know where you are coming from with your anger at pop.
I outlined days ago how he does not choose the teams direction. Peter Holt is paying EIGHTY million this year in salary. He writes the checks and he would blow the hell up if Pop decided to start “playing the kids” 35 minutes a game.
Holt doesn’t want the team giving up, Pop is still playing Jefferson and trying to get the team to roll. Thats his job as a coach. To sift through the combination of skills and abilities at his disposal and mold them as best he can into a winning outfit.
Finally and I still can’t believe this is an issue with people.
Do you and others really need someone to help you explain why Bonner and Bogans are getting time?
Heres why.
Theres 240 minutes in a game available through 5 spots.
If you average 32 minutes per slot for your starting 5 that leaves you with 80 minutes remaining.
If you have two key subs who play 20 a piece each that gives you 200 minutes. 40 minutes left.
You then have guys like Matt Bonner who take 15 or 17 minutes of that time.
Now throw in an injury to a rotation player.
You have to have people who can soak up those minutes while still contributing something. It’d be great to have 4 Tim duncans to do this with but hey the spurs, like every single other NBA team have to try our best to fill out a roster within the constraints of a salary cap to the best of their ability.
Tim Duncan 32 mpg
Tony Parker 32 mpg
Manu Ginobli 27 mpg
Richard Jefferson 31 mpg
George Hill 27 mpg
Antonio McDyess 20 mpg
Keith Bogans 20 mpg
Roger Mason Jr 19 mpg
Dejaun Blair 19 mpg
Matt Bonner 16.9 mpg
Michael Finly 15.8 mpt
Bonners 10th in Minutes per game. Bogans is 7th.
We need people to soak up those minutes who are capable of playing within the team Defensive Scheme, bringing a particular skill to the table (3 point shooting, man defence), and being effective without needing the ball in their hands.
Thats a role player. Thats what guys like Bogans and Bonner are.
Some of the other NBA notables getting around 17 minutes per game as previously pointed out are Morris Peterson, Bobby Simmons, Coby Karl, Etan Thomas, Amir Johnson, Anthony Carter, Carlos Arroyo …..
What do you think the spurs are doing wrong exactly?
Bonner & Bogans are not the problem, have never been the problem and will not be the problem.
RJ CAN”T FREAKING THROW THE BALL IN THE OCEAN
TONY PARKER IS A BROKEN HUMAN
WE CANNOT PLAY TIM DUNCAN & MANU GINOBLI FORTY EIGHT MINUTES A NIGHT OR WE WILL HAVE NOTHING LEFT AT THE END OF THE SEASON.
these are the reasons the team is performing below expectations right now.
The main reason for bogans getting 20 is that he is a SF and it’s either Him or RJ. With not much else to go to. Hairston would be nice but for whatever reason pops not sold on him. I disagree with Pop I like what Malik brings but thats my only real quibble with how he is running the show.
I’ts a truism in the NBA that defenders get better with age.
It’s why Bruce got better and more effective in his 30’s.
Dejaun needs that seasoning. I agree he needs to play but that needs to be balanced against the needs of the team. He may eventually learn how to use his body to physically disrupt guys like Gasol/Bynum/Nowitski/Lopez etc but right now he can’t do it efficiently and effectively and thats why he is not getting 30 minutes per.
This is not rocket science. It’s metrics and matchups. Pay scales, and salary caps.
Thats how titles are won, negotiating all these minefields PLUS having some luck.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Ballhog - Really? Dwayne Jones getting picked up is ammunition for your argument? Really? A D-League all-star going to the Mavs? A “potential stud” in Haislip? You mean a guy who has yet to catch on with any NBA team? The guy is 29 - if he hasn’t made it yet, chances are there’s a good reason.
Dictator style from Pop? If he ruled as harshly as you claim, there has to be some sort of record of it right? Like comments from current/former players of staff or from prospective FA’s, right? Pop and the FO covered it up I guess…..
“Stop yelling and scolding players during games. It is classless and disrespectful.” Players are big boys, they can take it. TD takes it. Manu takes it. I’d venture to say it has worked out for them and made them better players.
Bruce was traded, not cut. Besides, he was on his last legs anyway.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:16 pm
@JT”
I suspect we are purposefully flying way way under the radar… so low we may just crash ”
that made me chortle uncontrollably at work.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Let say Splitter does come to the Spurs. Is he even gonna play??
He might go with another team just for the garaunteed playing time.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:30 pm
First off Bushka, I enjoy dialogue with you…You know your numbers.
You said:We need people to soak up those minutes who are capable of playing within the team Defensive Scheme..
LMAO. What defensive scheme? Opposing offenses are getting any shot they want.
Also, there is no justifying Bonner and Bogans. They just arent good enough for the minutes andf definately not to start in the NBA. They are hurting the team.
As for Jefferson. I say again, he didnt suddenly forget how to play. However, I cant really toss out an educated guess on his problem and wont dare blame the Dictator.
However, he has a confused look about him on the floor and he is playing far too tight. Signs of worrying about the coach.
Jefferson is no garbage man. He needs to have some plays run thru him, as does Mcdyess and Blair. We see it…Why doesnt the Dictator?
Any coach in the league would post Blair up every night and get him involved in the pick and roll. He has great feet, nice low post moves and the one intangiable that cannot be coached…He plays with fire! Unlike your man, the all pro, the dominator, the future HOF, Matt “RED ROCKET” Bonner. Joking..
Bonner is OK…just not a starter, and should never exceed 12 minutes unless his shot is falling consistently. It is all he has in his game.
Finally,
Cant we just be realistic guys. Who could we even come close to beating in the playoffs with Bonner and Bogans logging heavy minutes?
If we only got 15 points bettween Bogans, Jefferson, and Mason in Detroit, how much worse could Hairston and Mahinmi possibly do? I mean really???
Awating your response with bells on…
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:02 pm
You wanna talk about debt?
Real Madrid has a debt compared to that of the US Govt. Well it’s only about 500 million dollars. The Spanish Gov’t protects that club and debt is never anything they worry about as long as the win and beat Barca. Which means they will do whatever they have to do to get Splitter.
I hope that Splitter is a basketball junky cos if he is, that’ll mean he would wanna play in the best basketball league in the world. But if he isn’t then taking the money is the best option for him. The spurs better contend in the playoffs so they can tell Splitter that he is the missing piece for a championship.
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:08 pm
I’ve got to side with Ballhog on the lack of questions as to what Pop and the front office is doing.
My question is, if Pop evaluates over the all-star break that Bonner is an integral part needed to succeed, so much so that Pop wants to start him in 2 consecutive games, why then did Bonner receive a DNP-CD vs Pistons?
Did 2 games change Pop’s mind? Or just reaffirm the 1st 50 games that Bonner is a role player? Or is Pop saying Jefferson is a better 4 than Bonner?
???
And another note, seeing how the Pistons had zero post up players and Hamilton and Gordon were killing the Spurs off screens with slow footed defenders Bogans and Mason, and the Spurs were playing midget ball, why didn’t Pop ever go zone?
This notion that the front office and Pop are immune from legit questions is crazy. It’s like saying the man in jail for 8 yrs claiming the Toyota accelerator was stuck has no reason to question Toyota because it violates faith in Toyota past rankings as #1 in safety.
Pop and the front office need to explain why they stood pat at the trade deadline. Did they think the team as is, is good enough? Would a deal have affected future plans? Was there no one available they thought could help?
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:39 pm
“Who could we even come close to beating in the playoffs with Bonner and Bogans logging heavy minutes?”
-> so your answer is to play a couple of rookies instead?? If they were so great in the first place, why aren’t we getting calls about them all the time?? Bonner and Bogans WON’T be getting heavy minutes during the playoffs.
Everyone needs to quit whining about Ian and the MaHas’ playing time.
During the Spurs’ championship season, we were always the best in the league in not fouling. The reason that Blair doesn’t get more minutes is simply because he is foul prone. Adding more rookies makes this problem even worse.
Pop is still managing minutes and doing a great job of it. There is an excellent chance that we will be the healthiest team in the playoffs. Kobe’s hurt, Denver and Utah had their share of injuries, Portland even more so.
During the playoffs, Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili will surely average more than 32 minutes. McDyess and Hill’s minutes will also increase. This means that Bonner, Bogans, Mason, and Finley will average less. They are asked to do more now (with predictably mediocre results) so that our stars will be rested, and our role players will be ready.
There are 96 minutes for the PF/C position.
Duncan will be getting around 36, McDyess will get at least 24.
That leaves 15 - 20 minutes for Blair, 12-15 minutes for Bonner. The rest would be for Pop’s small ball fetish.
This pattern follows in the other spots. With Parker, Ginobili, and Hill’s minutes increasing, Bogans, and Mason will no longer have to “do too much.”
During the playoffs, our role players will go back to being role players with the added bonus of possibly giving them more minutes if their shots are falling.
If Jefferson didn’t suck so much, he’d be averaging 34 minutes and our role players wouldn’t be logging more minutes than they should. Once RJ “gets it” we’ll be fine.
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:01 pm
This guy is 7′ tall and doesnt get 6 rpg in Europe how is he going to be effective here?
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:08 pm
I’m happy sitting with guys like bonner and bogans around the 15 to 17 minute mark Ballhog.
It’ll fluctuate due to injuries but they are the kind of players that don’t need the ball so you can run them with Tim/Manu/Dejaun and just use them to spread the floor or in Bogans case play hard Man D.
Bonners better defensively than we give him credit for, he channels players well within the Spurs scheme and to be honest does all the little things right. He just isn’t fast enough. He wouldn’t be a 9th or 10th man if he was.
I don’t really buy into the starting argument. I don’t care who starts games, it’s who finish’s games, hence why Manu has been so effective for the spurs historically.
I do love the idea of Blair having some offence run through him. I just don’t like the idea of Blair defending Giant Power Forwards/Centres. He hasn’t gotten a handle on how to do that yet. I firmly believe he will, simply because his motor is GIGANTIC.
Dejauns going to get better though.
My quibble with pop is Hairston. I think giving him minutes would help tremendously.
I just don’t see any real difference this year with Pops performance and movements. He always drives me nuts the first 2/3rds of the season with lineup changes and tinkering, and he is still doing it now.
I guess he does it to learn things about the team, how certain combinations impact against different opponents etc. For him it’s all about the end of the year.
We see things as immediate. He is juggling minutes now with a view to the playoffs. We see today as the end, he see’s it as a tiny building block in a successful season.
Hence why he is such a gruff sarcastic wanker in post game interviews. It must be like explaining yourself to kids for him.
I mean most of his waking moments he is figuring out how to combat the back court penetration of the Hornets backups (collison thornton) for a possible playoff matchup and he then tries out Bogans / Hill as a guard rotation in a game.
The media asks him if this is a sign of something bigger? Whats he meant to do? Break it down so we all understand it and can digest it?
I have followed the team long enough to get the fact, (though not always enjoy it), that the guy simply knows more than I do, and uses entire regular season games as beta tests of work in progress.
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Spurs fans constantly claim Splitter is “the best center in Europe”. I am sorry, but where does this nonsense come from? In Europe the actually top regarded centers are Ioannis Bourousis and Nikola Pekovic.
After them, Splitter is among several centers that could be considered for being number 3. And certainly several centers are in the same class and discussion with him for that number 3 position. He’s a very good player and can certainly play in the NBA, but please stop all the exaggerations already. Spurs fans need to get some factual perspective for just once.
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:49 pm
@ BALLHOG
Bushka set you straight on the Splitter issue, so I’ll set you straight on the Dewayne Jones comment.
He’s trash. He’s slow, lumbering, and plodding. This equals wonderful rebounding numbers in the D-League, which translates to a 13th man role for the Mavs. He’d be the 13th man on our bench MAYBE. I’ve seen him play in person several times, I know what I’m talking about here. It’s not like he’s just a slow guy who hustles, he’s just sloooow. Blair would just shred him to ribbons.
Splitter will come. Do not fret.
Also, I just don’t understand all the straight vehemence from so many people regarding Pop. We’re not even a bad team and *BAM* everyone jumps ship. You guys are acting like a Clippers fan 3 months ago.
You have to concede that the players aren’t performing. Everyone, with the exception of Kevah (kudos), loved the Jefferson pick-up, including me. Trust me, I went back and re-read the posts from this summer. We all believed we could contend this year because of that trade. But Jefferson has under performed PLUS Tony showed up hurt. Manu was pretty bad for the first half of the season as well.
Bloody hell, we’re having a low year, but we’re still in the playoffs. Our organization isn’t crumbling!
And please stop bringing up D-League players as reasons why the FO and Pop suck. NONE of them have made a difference ANYWHERE else in the league.
And I’m officially done discussing Pop.
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:52 pm
Bushka:
I must give you props for being a true Spurs fan! You summed up very precisely what Pop is doing. It’s the same thing he always does. He is having to do it on a larger scale, later in the season than usual and has admitted to this in his interviews. He said that it has never taken him so long to get a group of guys to gel. He even admitted frustration with it. This is Pop giving up a lot of information, by his standards. I agree with you, he knows more about basketball than we ever will. He is definitely one of the best coaches, arguably the best and for supposed fans to be second guessing him is just not an intelligent activity. There is still time left and with that and getting everyone 100% healthy, there is still a lot of potential for this roster to make some noise. Of course, any successful post season run ALWAYS takes a little bit of luck here and there… Here’s to all that coming together in time!
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Splitter is an idiot if he doesnt want to come play in the NBA with the Spurs! 1st of all he’ll learn from the greatest power foward to ever play the game, not to metion he might learn something from HOF David Robinson too! 2nd doesnt he(splitter) know that Tim Duncan is closer to retirement and if he (splitter) is that good and able to make a strong impact he(splitter) could be next new face of the francise! and that would equal more $$$, maybe what tim is making now! (more money in the long run)! if not screw him hopefully he has some trade value!
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:56 pm
We NEED tiago splitter. After missing out/not trading for Tyrus Thomas, we need a young big man not just to help the team out now, but to start transitioning to life post-duncan era.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:15 pm
why are we not talking to big Z his agent has said Z will look at offers from dallas, atlanta,denver. who are going to offer the vet min of 1.3. we have this to offer so what gives we can offer Z more time than these other teams and we need a 7 footer who can block shots and shoot.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:21 pm
We DEFINITELY NEED Tiago Splitter. I have actually seen him play and he would do the one thing that would help us more than anything. He is an actual Center and that would allow everyone else to play their natural position. First and foremost, Timmy back to true PF. After all, he is the best PF to ever play the game. Tiago also plays decent defense that will only get better after working with Timmy and surely Dave(the Admiral). Then the spurs are back to familiar territory. That being TWO solid big men to take care of things in the lane. When you combine that with our current roster, assuming Ginobli stays healthy and the Spurs keep him(which they most definitely should if he remains healthy), then we will be a team to be feared! But, this is all for next season. If you have been a Spurs fan for more than a few years, you should know that it is too early to be jumping ship on the Spurs and writing their obituary. There is a little time left and Pop is that good of a coach. Despite the abuse he has taken from many of the posts here, he has proven himself year after year and this year is not over until it’s over. Have a little faith and hope for a little luck!
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:31 pm
I thought about Z, I just cannot for a second imagine him going anywhere but the cavs. He is such a classy guy, and his got a young family with tremendous roots in the Cleveland area.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Bigtee33 -
I have to think we are talking to Big Z. I also have to think we will be talking with Kurt Thomas if/when he gets bought out. I’d be very surprised if we didn’t try to make a big push for another big.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Although big Z wouldn’t be able to give us more than 15 mpg, it would be a good pickup for us. Sorry, but I am certain this won’t happen. I believe this talk from his agent is to downplay any mention of collusion.
All those teams (and us) can only offer pro-rate of the Vet Min…same as the Cavs. Who has the better chance to make the finals? Who is he most familiar with? Where does his favorite player reside? Clevelend is the answer…and he deserves a chance to go back, ride the bench and get a ring. He fought the good fight, fought through the pain of those foot injuries, etc. Hope he gets it.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:34 pm
biftee, now Z would be nice. Z is a player…No handicaps and long lists of “cant do’s”. Good shooter, decent defender, and courage on the floor. Wouldnt we be awsome if we had more of that.
As for the comments suggesting that this is a good season. Let me just say this…BS!
Reminder…This is Spur Nation baby…Took us a long time to rise to the top like cream. We have no intention of sitting back while personalitites send us back to the lottery.
This is not personal…Its just the truth. Our line up is doodoo. Our ttransition defense is horrible, our players are tight and indecisive and we could certainly stand to be far more agressive.
Bad rotations and interupted minutes keeps players off balance. It prevents players from breaking a good sweat and getting into the flow of the game.
Like all of you, I just cant make sense of what Pop is doing. Besides, I played for 2 coaches that had the Pop mentality.
Playing for a coach like that is no walk in the park…Takes a certain kind of personality…
The really weird thing….
Havent you ever noticed that our players, (Parker, Ginnobli, Duncan, Bonner, Hill, Finley) have almost identical personalities…
Maybe I am the only critic…Im OK with that!
Somebody has GOT to do it!
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Until we get to see Splitter in significant minutes against NBA competition, we will never know how good he is. Who knows, Mahinmi might be every bit as good or better than Splitter and we wouldn’t know it. The Spurs need to invest in quality, proven bigs such as a Chris Bosh/Zach Randolph type of player (not too many on their level). Anything less to complement Duncan will not result in anything different than what is going on this year. We need to see what Mahinmi can do!
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:53 pm
@ Bushka, Thatbigguy, any Spurs fans,
I guess no one can answer my questions, huh?
If Pop evaluates over the all-star break that Bonner is an integral part needed to succeed, so much so that Pop wants to start him in 2 consecutive games, why then did Bonner receive a DNP-CD vs Pistons?
Did 2 games change Pop’s mind? Or just reaffirm the 1st 50 games that Bonner is a role player? Or is Pop saying Jefferson is a better 4 than Bonner?
???
And another note, seeing how the Pistons had zero post up players and Hamilton and Gordon were killing the Spurs off screens with slow footed defenders Bogans and Mason, and the Spurs were playing midget ball, why didn’t Pop ever go zone?
No answers to be had.
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Sadly, being not too old, the only bad Spurs season I remember was when Robinson was hurt and only played about 25 games. Since he was the team (Sean Elliott rules!), I accepted the fact that the Spurs weren’t making the playoffs. Now, this team has spent 10 years constructing a small market team that can run with big city attractions and brought in 4 titles. However, the league has caught up with the Spurs game and it appears very likely that I will have to cheer for someone else come playoffs (usually whoever plays against Lakers). I don’t want to see this! I know this team has had some injuries but nothing too ridiculous (like last year) so we should be dominating. But, since Jefferson is not playing Spurs-quality ball, and we don’t have enough height to play 2 bigs at a time, a lot of us are angry! We see what this team needs to do in order to make a run, or at least not be too embarrassed come playoffs. In spite of this, we continue to see things that obviously are not working.
Thanks to the guy who commented on minute averages on this team. I am a nerd for number-stats like that. My question is, why not exchange Jefferson’s minutes for someone good (Blair or Hill for example)? Is it because when you make so much money you are required to get so much playing time. McGrady was making $20M on the pine, Jefferson can do it too.
I say go for Z too. This team says they are confident to win the title but actions speak louder than words. Sign him for the vet, or at least throw your name in the mix. Just do something that lets fans know that this organization wants to win and will not allow pride, selfishness, arrogance, etc. in the way of banners from the rafters.
Next summer will be focused on Manu coming back, and this team will make it known. But if we get screwed waiting on Manu to sign the contract, I will be pissed! Regardless of labor negotiations, this team needs to say “we are serious about winning championships and nothing else.” Nothing except Tim Duncan’s play, Manu’s late season re-birth, and not too much else really says that.
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:24 pm
Why is everyone looking at adding Z?
The Spurs did a clear salary dump at the trade deadline….there isno way they are gonna add the Vet Min if they just got rid of some cash…
And even if we got Z( not happen) u really think by us adding Z it would put us right there with the Lakers or something?!?!
It is was it is….we are going down with this group…no player is coming aboard to help out…sorry fellow Spurs fans…the shits hit the fan… :/
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:30 pm
@ Ballhog
I agree with your last point. I don’t see why POP doesn’t play Hairston and IAN. THey sure as hell can’t do any worse. Im sure IAN can at least keep a couple of possesions alive.
The Spurs just need a big to help TD. Hell, they won a championship in 03 with Robinson that was no longer effective. He was basically out there just to take up space. Also you’re telling me IAN can’t do what Blair does? Manu can spoon feed IAN all night long. How many times has Blair (as great as he has been) not finished a play just because he isn’t big enough.
I don’t know. IAN must really stink in practice.
As for BONNER, his job is to hit the three. POP sits him if he misses two shots. You gotta leave him out there.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:30 pm
Pop had a good roster. He killed it. Now he has a weak roster. However, if he were not “caught up”, he would see the benefit in playing the young guys now.
But, he still thinks that he can win with the “3″ alone. He cant, he wont.
They need help and they are not getting that help from Bonner, Bogans, Finley, or Jefferson. We all know this is true, period!
Tim needs to be moved to the 5. I know he wants to go down as the best PF in the game, but he has already done that.
Pop should get out of his own way. A line up of Duncan, Parker, Mcdyess, Blair, and Hairston would put a little s h back in our i t…..
Bring Hill, Jefferson, Mason, Mahinmi, and Bonner off the bench…All others simply watch and cheer.
Finally,
If Hairston gets meaningful minutes, he will win a starting position on this team. I have really watched this kid. He can really get off the floor, has good handles, extremely agressive to the rim, and has a nice stroke.
Why would Pop or any coach choose to play Bogans over this kid? Wow…It blows my mind.
Is it politics? Popatics? Pride, Stubborness? Maddness? Or is it the simple fact that Pop has his favorites and favorites play in San Antonio…
If this is true, He must be run out of town…Nothing should come before winning titles, especially nonsense like that.
Disgusting….
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Just curious, would playing Jefferson more at the 3 be a more suitable role for him? It’s been clearly stated that when we have Timmy D in with Blair/ McDyess that we have a better offense and defense. Just to be clear I am not questioning Pop or defending RJ, just merely presenting a possibly alternative. RJ was never meant to play the 4 and is only making his job harder.
KD is probably going to embarrass RJ.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:01 pm
I haven’t bashed Rj yet because i have league pass and i watch every spurs game, and it’s hard to be a 20 point scorer when you only shoot it 4-10 times a game. I think pop has to run more plays for Rj. or only play Rj with Manu and let those two take over scoring when there out there. A little off topic but this is what I think.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:45 pm
@Bushka
Thanks for making a good effort at getting BALLHOG to tone down his silly & incessant anti-pop rhetoric. Most of what you said I agreed with, but unfortunately I don’t think BALLHOG will ever get it. I’ve tried to address his (& others) over-the-top Pop critiques a few times in the last couple of weeks, with NO success whatsoever. I’m just going to ignore anti-pop commentary from this point forward. It’s not worth my time.
I’m curious though, what do you and others see in Hairston? I haven’t seen him play much in a game, and I certainly haven’t seen him in practice. Can you tell me why you think he deserves more minutes? Is it really obvious enough to doubt Pop’s use or disuse of him in the rotation?
February 24th, 2010 at 12:15 am
@ThatBigGuy
Actually, there are several former D-Leaguers who I’d love to have as role players on the Spurs. Azubuike from the Warriors is a guy most teams would love to have: shoots over 40% from 3, strong, athletic, good defender from the SF spot-If he had Bogans minutes we’d definitely be better.
Anthony Morrow for that matter would be better than Roger Mason has been this year. Sure his defense isn’t great and his handle isn’t as good as Mason’s, but RMJ sucks at the point anyway and hasn’t been making shots all year.
I just think it’s a little short-sighted to say that no D-Leaguers have made a difference for their teams.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:58 am
Malik is athletic and intelligent. He improved a lot over the course of the last two seasons. Mostly I like him because he plays really hard on D but can also bring excellent offense.
As far as why Bonner if he is so great got a DNP CD?
I addressed that a few threads ago but i’m happy to do so here.
He is a role player. He is most valuable in stretching the floor and hence he is used situationally.
Which part of the pistons rotation is 2 shotb locking 6′10 players that need to be spaced out of the lane?
Role players guys that can either shoot the ball well or defend man to man well, or change shots at the rim, or initiate the offense well, are tools in a coaches repertoire that are used situationally.
Remember the bulls?
The guys that won six titles? 72 69 and 62 wins in succession during the regular season?
Do you think Jud Buechler was an all star? Randy Brown? Jason Caffey? Bill Wennington? Dicky Simpkins? Rusty La Freaking Rue? Scott Burrel?
For gods sake understand this for once, and for all.
These are the roleplayers every team, including the team that won 72 games in a season has to have.
Because you cannot play Michael Jordan 48 minutes a game, or Tim Duncan, or Manu, etc etc etc, and no one who is amazing and gifted takes 15 minutes a game, because they get out of town and get big bloody self assuring, quality of life guranteeing contracts from teams that need people to play 36 minutes a game for them.
FIFTEEN MINUTES A GAME is a role player. Matt Bonner is not the damn problem. Get it.
February 24th, 2010 at 4:07 am
bushka
it is the role players and pop
get it
its when they play,how long they play, and how bad they play in areas outside their “role.”
stop this Z talk it is ignorant. we already have a slow old guy in mcdyess.
yes pop plays favorites.
February 24th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Trade TP -
I’ll agree with you on one point - our role players haven’t stepped up like they have in the past.
When we’ve won championships (or been right there) our role players have always made huge plays. Whether it’s a offensive rebound tipped out (Fab), drawing an offensive foul (Bowen), a dagger 3 (Bowen/Horry), our role players have always stepped up in the clutch - which is exactly what you have to have to win a ring.
This year we haven’t made those plays. We’ve missed shots, committed stupid fouls, and essentially thown away a lot of games - Portland on the RRT is the first that comes to mind.
The silver lining (and why I still hold out hope) is that it’s not like our role players haven’t had opportunities - they’ve been right there, but they’ve yet to take advantage.
Now here’s where I disagree with some - role players not stepping up doesn’t fall squarely on Pop’s shoulders. Bonner hasn’t shot well since returning from injury. Mason has yet to shoot the ball with the consistency he did last year. RJ, for whatever reason has played tentatively.
Does Pop deserve criticism for guys not stepping up? Of course, but so does the rest of the staff, front office and the players.
Like I said, every guy on the team has had ample opportunities to make plays and for the most part, we haven’t. At some point, guys have to step up and knock down a shot, get a critical stop, keep their guy off the offensive boards, etc. The coaching staff can’t do that for them - it’s up to the players to nut up and make a play.
February 24th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
@Bushka
Very good points about Bonner & role players. I agree.
About Hairston though, I’m sure you’ve seen him play more than me (and when I’ve seen him play he looked decent), but the fact is he only played 15 games last year at 10 mins./game, and 21 games this year at 3.5 mins./game (mostly, if not always during “garbage” time). Is that really enough time for any of us to question Pop’s minute allocation to Hairston? Of course, we have to remember, Pop has all kinds of resources to get a true feel for Hairston (e.g., D-league scouts, D-league film, practice performance, etc.). Perhaps this is more of just a gut feeling you have about Hairston, and only a relatively minor quibble you have with Pop and his player minute allocations? I just don’t see enough to say, yeah, Pop should be giving Hairston more minutes (even though their is a chance he could do well if given more of an opportunity during NBA games).
@Trade TP
On role players & Pop you say:
…”its when they play,how long they play, and how bad they play in areas outside their “role.”
Yeah, that’s true, and any sane person would much rather have Pop make those decisions than you, or anyone else on this blog for that matter.
“stop this Z talk it is ignorant. we already have a slow old guy in mcdyess.”
Agreed.
“yes pop plays favorites.”
Yeah, so do all coaches to relatively minor degrees. So what?!
February 24th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
@ Tyler
Good points about lack of production from “role” players. Thanks for trying to keep the onus on the PLAYERS. BALLHOG, Trade TP, etc. just don’t want to keep the principal focus of why a team ultimately wins or loses on the players, where it belongs.
Does anyone think the role players on teams that win are going to mope around and play passively & unfocused because they have a problem with their minutes? Do you think Farmar & Brown on LA are ultimately playing crappy because they think coach should start them over Fisher? I don’t think so, and there’s numerous other examples. YOU WANT MORE MINUTES? HOW ABOUT PLAYING GREAT DURING THE MINUTE YOU’RE ON THE COURT!! And then, maybe, but not GUARANTEED!
And also, the “head coach’s” main job is x’s & o’s, match-ups, offensive/defensive strategies, clock management, etc. Use of a rotation is just as much about the player, ACCEPTING his role and going out to compete at a high level, whether that’s for one minute, or 30 minutes. Even player development is technically more on the assistant coach’s. As far as motivation? Remember, coach’s aren’t cult leaders! They can only do so much to get a player to do anything. These players are adults, and ultimately THEY have to choose whether to dedicate themselves to playing hard & focused whenever called upon. I’m not saying that’s easy, but that’s what it takes to be WINNERS (see Bushka’s comment on “role players”.)
February 25th, 2010 at 4:47 am
Henderson:
I disagree. I think any sane person doesnt like the lineups that we have been forced to watch and would consider multiple other views on who to play and when to play over Pop’s ideas. Point is proven just reading everyone’s posts.
February 25th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
I don’t always like the lineups.
I certainly agree with you on that.
But i do appreciate that it’s part of a bigger picture.
February 25th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Bushka, I agree with everything you put in your comment above, but your last line is the critical one to putting the situation into its proper context. And it’s the last line, I’m afraid, too few on here get.
While I certainly don’t agree with some of the line-ups we’ve used (for whatever that’s worth), I’d prefer to focus on what has been the Spurs chief problem this year: PLAYERS under-performing and/or giving insufficient focus/effort, particularly on the defensive end. And remember, defense is MORE desire & commitment (not all!) than talent compared to offense.
Trade TP, “reading everyone’s posts” doesn’t “prove” anything. Because we’ve run into some unusually thorny “player” issues this year, you’d prefer to blame a coach that’s won 4 titles because he doesn’t always play the same rotations YOU favor. Now that’s not sane.
February 26th, 2010 at 1:21 am
IM WITH BALLHOG!!
IM FURIOUS!!! I’VE WAITED MONTHS TO GATHER MY THOUGHTS ABOUT POP . bushka i dont know if you work for the paper or the f.o cause you def.sound like it. im not going to bash people but im a spurs fan and i cantell pop is full of pure stubbornness and bullshit!!! He’ll sink before he admits he was wrong on certain things he doesnt want to admit! little stuff yeah sure he’ll admit the small stuff. me and my brother are loyal pop fans (were), but his antics and bullcrap is outrageous!!!! im sick and tired of him playing finley at the PF dammit if you could explain the real questions like a human not like a computer dishing out numbers and salaries to confuse the problem at hand that would be great. when in the hell did we hire Don Nelson!!!!
You tell me why he is playing finley on (port.) aldridge??? totally understandable when opposing teams go small, but now thats the way we play what in the hell is the man thinking!!!! bullshit!!!everytime we play small ball we get our asses handed to us, and everytime we play catch up from that small ball. while we give ratliff to a coach who taught pop some things about b.ball, he then starts ratliff on that bobcat team mind you who is loaded with bigs, and on top of that hes producing!!!!who is this damn coach we have???? not only did he give ratliff to larry he gave it to him after he passed on a tyrus thomas trade!!! now if you have people coming off the books next year ready to walk and leave why in the hell dont you pull the trigger ???? you just got rid of ratliff, you dont play mahinmi, you let go of haislip!!!???!!! he is playing finley over haislip,mahinmi,and ratliff mason as well. dnt bother with an explanation because theres no possible one out there!! im saying it here i love pop the old pop not this freak!! the spurs now have to play agains the team, the refs and now the coach. if he continues to handle the team this way and be an arrogant dick, he needs to step down. ill say it fire his ass!!!! people are pissed if you think im the only one who feels this way you must not live in san antonio, you know if thousands of people are scratching their head and asking for pop to be replaced theres got to be something behind it. im waiting for the big plan or strategy to come through, because right now theres no way pop can be serious thinking we have any chance to win anything. he let us know he didnt believe in this team when he traded ratliff remember people we were saving him for the playoffs!! now hes firing 40 yr olds you know hes lost his mind!! he doesnt want anyone to play. how dare you be young and athletic!!! you better put your tail between your legs and not question my ridiculous lineups, that not even a 5 yrold would choose on nba live!! pop when you do good you get rewarded now your doing terrible and you need to pay the price!!! determine his plan of action mr. holt and if its sameold pop let him go!!!!! its a business pop, just like with bowen,oberto,nazi,malik your just a piece as well old man..
February 26th, 2010 at 1:30 am
jim yes me too, lets talk about inconsistent lineups! if i didnt know i was starting each and every day for 5months i wouldnt get into any sort of rhythm, put yourself in those players positions. thers no stability there. how do you even know if your a role player one minute you get 20 min. then next week you get 5min in one week. and this is happening to not just one guy im talking the whole rotation except for the big 3!!! theres one reason to blame pop about inconsistent play. yes they are underachieving, how in the hell is ratliff overachieving jim??? let me tell you because he s playing basketball. i guarantee you if haislip was played more he would produce, i guarantee you if mahinmi played more he would [produce. but the guys who have major limits are the ones sucking up time!! bonner, bogans,finley. yes it is pops fault theres no plays being run for them for cris sakes
February 26th, 2010 at 1:34 am
the man is a power hungry individual who can only function during control, if hes not in control then hes out of his territory, and right now i think hes lost his composure and his ability to motivate, produce fear, and reward these players he’s slipped
February 26th, 2010 at 1:51 am
bushka bonner isnt the problem its how hes played is the problem!! yeah maybe for the piston game its ok but if the teams yell out “give the ball to whoever matt is guarding “then we have a problem especially when hes not scoring do you see now?? matt bonner isnt the problem its the way hes being used . dont compare 2010 to the 90’s bulls different game now but i thought you knew better than to do that. its even a different game from 04′ look th reason why everyone wants more talent is because other teams have done the same, and you know what i would rather have a guy whos consis. hitting 45% from three who can defend and is younger!!!!!! doesnt that make sense to you??!! who your going to ask??haislip!!!dammittt!!! and this is why were pissed offf !!!! no shit he wasnt shooting his 40 % from the field, maybe if he wasnt so damn athletic and young, he would get some time. all im saying is look what he did to get bonner on that damn team why in the hell cant he develop mahinmi (through the nba) just like he did bonner, hes just a stubborn old military man. who now totally despises playing his young blood. he hates even talking about dejuan i mean what a freaking nut case. he lost his love for the game and when that left i lost my love for the old pop god knows it wasnt his personality keeping him popular here
February 26th, 2010 at 2:42 am
Hey, Zack - glad you got that off your chest. Nice rant, up there with the best of them. Now, first, go take some Zoloft, then, think about getting a life. Maybe coach the Spurs? BALLHOG as your assistant? LOL!
February 26th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
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February 26th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
hey jim talk about getting a life im not the one on here daily and early in the morning, guess you never stopped and thought about your posts lol nice comeback though it beats all the other B.S you were posting previously.
February 26th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Zack,
Glad the rant’s over. You must have took my advice. That’s great, because you’re obviously way too emotionally wrapped up into whether the Spurs win or lose, when in reality it’s relatively meaningless to all of our lives. If one wants to spend a bit of time enjoying the Spurs brand of basketball, as a sport & athletic endeavor, and logically analyze the pro’s & con’s of what they’re doing as a team, fine. But spewing out all your frustrations in thousands of words of “free association” about the difficult Spurs season by “scapegoating Pop” is NOT helpful. Not only that, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
That said, I for one would certainly welcome seeing more reasonable posts from you in the future. Please go into tonight’s game with a respectful and open mind about Pop & the team, and don’t throw things if Pop doesn’t play the guys YOU want when YOU want them to play! And if they lose, don’t get too upset. After all, it’s only a game.
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