Friday, July 2nd, 2010...8:56 am
Spurs forced to suffer fools gladly
Amusing as it is was to watch Isiah Thomas sign Jerome James to a contract more loaded than his waist line while teaming Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis with Larry Brown, and thankful as San Antonio is for the finest stretch of basketball in Nazr Mohammed’s career, these general managers have to stop.
Because funny though it may be to watch a David Kahn try and build an NBA roster by drafting and signing multiple players at only one position each year (if you bring in five point guards, one has to stick right?) eventually they will find a way for ineptitude to damage more than their own team. Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo sports reported:
There were undoubtedly some eyes rolling into the backs of heads in the Spurs’ front office with the Minnesota Timberwolves close to an agreement with European center Nikola Pekovic(notes) on a three-year, $13 million contract. The Spurs are negotiating to bring over 2008 first-round pick Tiago Splitter(notes) this summer, and Pekovic’s deal promises to elevate Splitter’s leverage.
A 7-foot center from Brazil, Splitter is considered a far superior prospect to Pekovic. The Spurs’ ability to pay Splitter from its midlevel exception and still have some of that money to use on another free agent has been somewhat compromised.
The lavish and foolish spending has pushed average free agents beyond the Spurs reach, created dramatic shifts in power, and eventually will cost us one of the final years of Tim Duncan’s career.
Joe Johnson given a max deal. Rudy Gay provided the same. Then there are the Channing Frye’s and Darko Milicic’s of the world gaining premium dollar in a market featuring a number of teams that stockpiled cap space without really planning on what to do with it. At the rate teams are spending, there is a slight chance that Richard Jefferson opting out is not as foolish as it once seemed.
The San Antonio Spurs can only be thankful that they resigned Manu Ginobili when they did. ESPN’s John Hollinger credited R.C. Buford with being one of the smartest general managers in the league for getting his work done early in a market that is vastly inflating players’ value.
Several GMs have looked at the landscape and realized this phenomenon, which is why the bidding has increased on even secondary players. It only makes sense — a rising tide lifts all boats. If the players normally targeted with midlevel money are suddenly angling for much bigger prizes, it means lesser players now become targets for the midlevel.
So why should San Antonio Spurs fans care about a free agent summer that their team did not have the resources to join in the first place? Because for teams like the Memphis Grizzlies or Minnesota Timberwolves, the contracts of today will eventually turn into the Pau Gasol’s little brothers of tomorrow. In some ways, Chris Wallace’s Gasol blunder marked the end of the current San Antonio run.
For the Spurs it was the end of the three-stars and defense philosophy that held them atop the league for most of the decade. It was also perhaps the beginning of the end for Bruce Bowen. Though age and slippage had something to do with it, the Spurs began to ween themselves off of defensive stalwarts like Bowen and Kurt Thomas in favor of the extra offense Michael Finley and Matt Bonner offered in hopes of keeping pace with the Laker’s juggernaut.
After the trade Gregg Popovich joked that there should be a trade committee to scrap such horrible deals. While no such committee will ever exist, the NBA does have one means of protecting itself from some of the foolish, excess spending, and it’s one that causes suffering for us all.
It’s called a lockout, and it could end the Spurs as we know them.
At some point during the season the owners and players will get together and the owners will try to convince players that there is not enough money to go around in the current system and keep the NBA viable. It’s a position that would have been hard to sell under any circumstances. But now that position has been compromised even further.
Because in a summer where David Kahn and Chris Wallace handed out large sums of money to Darko Milicic and Rudy Gay, with owners willingly cutting the checks, how can they argue there is no money to spend?
So there is a chance Richard Jefferson signs a large contract somewhere, and deep inside Spurs country there will be jokes made and fans amused, but be warned: nothing good comes from suffering fools gladly.
90 Comments
July 2nd, 2010 at 9:25 am
Well said! These idiots are going to blow things up! Why spend that kind of money when they CAN’T EVEN SELL OUT THEIR HOME GAMES?
Oi.
That is all.
Thanks for the story!
Speaking of stories - do we know who all will be in Vegas next month?
July 2nd, 2010 at 9:44 am
I would honestly look for RJ to be in Silver & Black next season. If things dont go well for RJ in the second year of our system, look for a trade midseason or the trade deadline.
I really hope he comes in with just a bit more aggression. He is not a bad player, even in our system. There is not that many touches to go around when you are the 4th option. If he gets 12 possesions, which is alot I think, for the 4th option, and scores 50% of the time… then he averages 12 points per game. Anytime he can translate that into free throws the better obviously.
I believe that we, and the entire league for that matter, had super high expectations of him when he arrived from the Bucks. He was averaging 20 points a game on 25 touches… if you cut that number in half - his points should be cut in half as well.
I say that we lobby to get David Robinson to come back and anchot the paint and then Sean Elliot to come in and drain some threes and we win another ring in 2011-2012…
July 2nd, 2010 at 9:48 am
Well put. And thoroughly depressing. Thanks… I think.
July 2nd, 2010 at 9:51 am
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Andrew A. McNeill. Andrew A. McNeill said: Spurs forced to suffer fools gladly http://dlvr.it/2FFM8 [...]
July 2nd, 2010 at 10:15 am
I agree with DieHardSpur. I hope RJ comes back. I think he’ll be more comfortable and more aggressive. Sometimes he wasn’t even the 4th option as G. Hill emerged as one of the most improved players in the league.
Another big man (Splitter) will make us serious contenders, I optimistically believe.
July 2nd, 2010 at 10:32 am
fuck David Kahn.
July 2nd, 2010 at 11:00 am
Here’s another question: Will there be enough ball to spread around? If RJ returns and is more comfortable in the system and his role, then there’s the Big Three, plus an emerging G.Hill and we all hope and pray Splitter joins up with us. Blair will get his on put-backs and stuff, so I’m not as concerned with his scoring as the others and I know this is an unselfish team.
What kind of mentality or personality does Splitter have? Will he be okay with being so far down the totem-pole until TD closes the book? Too many questions.
July 2nd, 2010 at 11:07 am
Well aren’t we also glad that Manu wanted to stay and get a extension done right away. I know he’s getting older and more injury prone but he still brings a lot to a team, a great team player, and still one of the biggest competitors out there. I still think he has some left in him and if he went into free agency some team or two would still throw a crazy amount for him.
July 2nd, 2010 at 11:59 am
Jefferson will only be back with the Spurs for sign and trade purposes.
If the Spurs were so prescient, they’d have known Jefferson would opt out due to the new CBA threat and all the cap space teams would create for all the free agents. And they would have used the 6 expiring contracts to improve the team instead of letting all of them walk away and get nothing in return.
I’ve harped on it numerous times before, but I’ll do it again. Not trading for Stephen Jackson and giving up our 7th and 8th best players in Matt Bonner and Roger Mason for him was short-sighted.
Steven Jackson was like 1 of 6 players that avg 20 pts, 5 reb, 5 asst every night. The others made $21, $15, $15, $12, $12 mil vs. $7 million for Steven Jackson. The other 5 players were Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, and Andre Iguodala.
When opportunity to purchase a decent player at a discount, the Spurs did not take advantage. Be it Stephen Jackson, Caron Butler, Mike Miller, Josh Howard etc.
If Finley and Mason had wanted out of San Antonio, why not offer them to Washington for a 3 month rental of Mike Miller?? Maybe Miller would’ve like SA, but now he’s got offers from the Lakers, Celtics, and maybe whoever Lebron signs with for 5 yrs - $30 million.
Spurs front office sat on their hands thinking Jefferson was enough and a future trade chip. Both assumptions were way off base.
Spurs front office needs to be more proactive. For example, are they anticipating what if Carmelo becomes available? Do they have those sort of contingency plans in place?
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Any chance of shipping RJ to a team with cap space in a sign-and-trade, giving the Spurs a nice-sized trade exception? Say, one large enough to get Mike Miller or Kyle Korver signed-and-traded to us for?
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Manu probably left some money on the table, but he’s going to be an icon in South Texas for the rest of his life. How do you put a price on that?
My biggest complaint with Jefferson was his poor performance to paycheck ratio. However, if we can lower his paycheck, he’ll end up with a more favorable ratio. Plus, I really think he can only grow more comfortable, and hence will only improve his performance. Don’t look now, but could we be saying that Jefferson is a steal in 8 months?
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:06 pm
Kalis,
I don’t think a team with cap space would do a sign and trade for RJ. If they wanted him, they would just sign him with their cap space.
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Conversely Jesse, I would rather work for a good boss rather than a poor one. Most folks in the business know who the gold standard is and may be willing to take less for more.
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:48 pm
It would be a great trade, decision, accolade to this article if the Spurs could pull off a Tony Parker/Garrett Temple for Chris Paul trade.
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:51 pm
And to the Parker for Paul trade…if the Spurs end up resigning Jefferson…Paul would help Jefferson be the type of player the Spurs originally brought Jefferson in to be.
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@ rob: But Paul wouldn’t work as well in this system as TP does and working better with RJ isn’t going to out-weigh working better with TD and Manu.
Also, has Paul picked up the dreaded “Fragile” label?
July 2nd, 2010 at 1:00 pm
rob
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:48 pm
“It would be a great trade, decision, accolade to this article if the Spurs could pull off a Tony Parker/Garrett Temple for Chris Paul trade.”
Hey Rob, can you just give me ONE reason why the Hornets would do that deal?
July 2nd, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Parker + parts for Chris Paul would be a coup; why would New Orleans ever make that move without also getting Blair, Anderson and a ton of future picks?
Parker when healthy has a case to be in the top 5 point guards. Chris Paul when healthy might be the best player in the league!
As for the missed opportunities cited by lvmainman, you mostly mention guys we had no chance of getting (S.Jack for Mason/Bonner - when was that an option?!?) or guys we should avoid like the plague (Josh Howard, Caron Butler).
I think it’s a case of the grass is always greener on the other side. Try putting up with Howard’s disappearing act for a few years, his stock won’t be as high as you rate it right now.
July 2nd, 2010 at 1:04 pm
@ JH: And then there’s THAT…
I think it’d take Anderson, Hill or Blair in addition to TP. Temple may prove he belongs in the League, but he’ll be in the AJ mold and not a Star at all.
July 2nd, 2010 at 1:06 pm
And living in Dallas, I’ve seen Howard’s act up-close. Dude’s worthless. He wants his check and that’s it. Doesn’t care about anything else. Oh, and he’s a knucklehead.
July 2nd, 2010 at 1:25 pm
I dont think San Antonio was “surprised” by Jeff opting out. I DO think that it wasn’t in their long term discussions originally, but I doubt they were literally surprised when it happened - why else would pop have been personally working with RJ for most of the summer??? They saw the writing on the wall long ago and had already talked with RJ and his agent about restructuring their contract for a long term deal. They know the value of RJ’s bird rights, considering the available options for their budget, and intended to offer him what he wanted for what they needed in a long term servicable SF. I highly doubt that they would be suddenly caught without a SF in this financial situation. RJ has been in the gym for most of the summer already with Pop to learn more of the system and stay ahead of the curve, and I think this speaks volumes for his intentions. Of course, I could be dead wrong, but all of the non-conjecture clues out there suggest that he has always wanted to opt out, and that the Spurs knew his intentions (or the possibility) all along. I’ll bet RJ will be back, we’ll sign Splitter and go after another defensive minded wing defender.
Parker - Hill - Temple
Manu - Anderson - Hairston
Jefferson - D. Wright
Duncan- Blair - Bonner
Splitter - McDyess
I’m a homer for the Spurs, I know, but I cant help but think that this line-up, and the different combinations and strengths, doesnt look really, really talented!
July 2nd, 2010 at 1:47 pm
The Spurs 3 pt shooting needs to be addressed in a big way (pun intended). Without a Boner, the Spurs are really limp behind the arc. 2, count em 2, proven, respectable shooters.
Hill and Manu
Splitter, Blair, Dice, Duncan, Tony & Malik are not good from deep.
RJ is hit and miss. He is a .348 career shooter but is not consistent. Some years much better, some much worse.
Anderson and Gee have “potential”.
Not enough shooting, not nearly enough.
Just compare that to if the Spurs had
Brandon Rush = 39.5%, 500 shots, 2 years in Nba
Troy Murphy = 39.4%, 1450 shots, 8 years in Nba
OR
Danilo Gallinari = 38.9%, 560 shots, 2 years in Nba
Chris Duhon = 36.2%, 1500 shots, 6 years in Nba
There are ways to improve our 3 pt shooting by trading Tony. The guy who will leave next year.
I’m just sayin
July 2nd, 2010 at 2:01 pm
@Lenneez
Bonner will be back… two words: BIRD RIGHTS!
That being said, there is no sense in trying to fill his need so early on in the season with a Parker trade. It would leave us woefully short at the point, and then your three point shooting would be for nil. Spurs will wait and see what the forecast will bring before (if) they pull the trigger on any trades.
July 2nd, 2010 at 2:52 pm
“The San Antonio Spurs can only be thankful that they resigned Manu Ginobili when they did. ESPN’s John Hollinger credited R.C. Buford with being one of the smartest general managers in the league for getting his work done early in a market that is vastly inflating players’ value.”
Uh, vastly inflating value? We signed him to max money! Seriously, does no one else realize this? Sometimes sports reporting is just so stupid…
I’m just pointing this out, I still like Manu.
July 2nd, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Boner is back = so what?
He FOLDS IN THE PLAYOFFS. Hedo Turkoglu got shipped out of SA because of his playoff struggles. He has big liabilities on the court. I am talking about improvement. Murphy or Gallinari is a huge improvement over Boner.
A Parker trade WILL NOT leave us “woefully short”. Did you sleep the 6 weeks that Hill was at the point and excelled? In any event, I would sign Duhon as a nice insurance policy.
Remember, very strong odds are that Parker will be gone after this season. He has said it.
July 2nd, 2010 at 3:16 pm
I’m just concerned that I keep seeing Shaq’s name linked with the Spurs on ESPN…
July 2nd, 2010 at 3:18 pm
@ Jim Henderson
It’s not something that would be done right now IMO. But after the free agency period has passed and if New Orleans does not get a supporting cast that Paul can work with, N.O. just might look to trading for Parker in order to have the cap to retool for the future after the 2010/2011 season while not looking like they were just giving up on the season for that reason. (see other reports and blogs regarding Paul demanding the team getting him some help)
They also, in the interim receive a local favorite in Temple who is up and coming and N.O. simply doesn’t have a decent 2 guard on the roster.
Parker gets his moment in the spotlight to up his value after his contract runs out. Spurs get a known (don’t have to deal with contract negotiations) PG that would make the other players on this team better including your mention of Duncan and Ginobili because Paul is a better assist PG than Parker.
And as to why the Hornets would do this…if they don’t get Paul the help…they may have no other choice than some kind of deal like this (whether it’s with the Spurs or some other team) to better help their chances in the near future.
July 2nd, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Well said.
Very thought provoking post. We often get locked into the narrow view and forget that it’s a big league with a broad horizon.
Isiah Thomas, David Khan, Chris Wallace, Michael Heisley et al should be burned in effigy if there is a lockout.
July 2nd, 2010 at 3:52 pm
@ DNITCH
Do you have a link on the Shaq talk?
Shaq to the Spurs would be awesome… if it were 2002. Today, it would just be kind of entertaining.
July 2nd, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Thanks to Heman over at PtR:
San Antonio has called to express interest in Restricted FA Wesley Matthews. Matthews seems like a perfect Spur if he doesn’t return to Utah
http://twitter.com/christomasson
July 2nd, 2010 at 5:20 pm
ESPN Thoughts: Shaq may be thought of as a back-up plan to not getting Splitter.
My Thoughts: NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO SHAQ!
July 2nd, 2010 at 5:40 pm
@lenneez
sorry bro, you’re not seeing the big picture. My comments about bonner don’t have much to do with his playoff experience, it has everything to do with the spurs needing a fifth big, one who spreads the floor, and what they can afford. Bonners bird rights make it easier for him to come back without screwing us financially. Of the available free agents, can you find one guy who is better than bonner at his price range? Can you find one whose better and who is also willing to play for the vet min? If you can you have my vote for asst. Gm. Bonner will be back because of what he DOES produce and that’s 3 pt shooting and system knowledge for what they can afford
Parker out duhon in??? Nice in theory but what does that look like come April? Your position is all predicated on George hill taking over at or above parkers level this year. Not likely. Yes I too was very impressed with his maturity when tp was out, but what if hill gets hurt for the season? You want your title run on the narrow shoulders of chris duhon? Talk about poised for folding in the playoffs. Don’t get me wrong, I see your point that Parker is likely going to leave, but I can’t see why it would be wise to ship him off for another, higher priced stretch 4 when we are bringing in splitter(hopefully) and we’ve yet to see how George holds up this season performance wise.
The smart thing to do would bs to wait and let the season play out, watch hills progress, and THEN if Parker wants to bolt, ship him to a team that has a player that is As close to tp’s level and a decent backup pg to fill his shoes. Murphey and gallinari don’t fit that bill before the season starts, really don’t even come close.
July 2nd, 2010 at 5:46 pm
@ lenneez
also, the above post about cp3 and the potential trade to get new Orleans some cap room makes huuuge sense and we wouldn’t lose a strong guard rotation. That’s the kind of deal I’m talking about.
July 2nd, 2010 at 6:17 pm
The max contracts offered to Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay were indeed ridiculous, but I thought Darko for 5mil/year wasn’t such a bad deal. He is a solid center afterall (if you forget that he was a 2nd overall pick in a loaded draft) who’s still young, has good size, decent defense and quickness. 7 footers of his caliber are hard to come by in this league imo.
Compare Darko’s deal with that of Frye’s or Amir Johnson’s - it certainly doesn’t look too bad in comparison. I’m not saying Kahn is a good GM or anything like that, but I personally don’t see why he’s being criticised for signing Milicic and Pekovic, which I think are rather reasonable deals.
July 2nd, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Darko is not really solid. He had a few good months at the end of last season but has consistently been inconsistent for the most part.
Not to mention that they couldn’t pick up the phone and talk to a guy like Brendan Hayward? Or possibly wait a little and see if they can bring in a better quality player using Jefferson as sign and trade then use the cap space.
Pekovic is not a bad contract yet, but Darkos just too long, he could have been had for less years surely, not to mention less money.
July 2nd, 2010 at 6:44 pm
Steve Blake to the Lakers. That makes them better, increasing the gap between us & them. we better get moving.
July 2nd, 2010 at 6:49 pm
@ Greyberger,
As a GM would you rather have Bonner/Mason or Radmanovic/Bell?
Don’t forget Bell will never play because he’s injured(torn wrist ligament) and Radmanovic had 2 yrs on his contract($6.8 mil this yr) vs the Spurs 2 expiring contracts. Plus Don Nelson is a friend of Popovich.
Caron Butler, a 2 time all-star, good at getting steals, a top 10 active career NBA FT % shooter, isn’t worth having? Huh? Why, Greyberger?
I agree that the Spurs should push the steal of Chris Paul for Tony Parker/Temple. Convince Chris Paul to join a better team/organization. Then, convince New Orleans to take an expiring contract to help lower salary cap for next year and turn the team over to Darren Collison and Marcus Thornton.
July 2nd, 2010 at 7:00 pm
@Bushka - It really depends on how you would define being solid, but I’d say when a 7 foot center averages around 8 pts, 5 rbs, 1.5 blks with decent interior defense while playing little more than 20 minutes per game, I’d call him solid. You’re probably right in saying Haywood is better, but for a rebuilding team like Minny, Darko may be a better fit. That’s what I think anyway and you can have a good laugh at me when Kahn’s Darko experiment fails dismally lol
I don’t disagree that he’s little overpaid with a contract that’s a year too long, but compared to what Channing Frye or Amir Johnson got, one could say Darko’s is not half bad.
I haven’t seen Pekovic play, but some people were considering him as one of the best centers (behind Splitter of course) in Europe. If he lives up to the expectations, 13 mil/3 years contract is a value, but yeah he needs to prove that he can play in the NBA before anyone can judge his contract.
July 2nd, 2010 at 7:31 pm
@Jacob
” it has everything to do with the spurs needing a fifth big, one who spreads the floor, and what they can afford.”
Danilo and Troy are the 3 pt shooting big that we need. Your suggestion of Bonner yet again borders on insanity; Doing the same and expecting different results. Clinging to a status quo that obviously does not work anymore is foolish. Change the roster, free up some capital, make needed upgrades.
” Of the available free agents, can you find one guy who is better than bonner at his price range? Can you find one whose better and who is also willing to play for the vet min”
I made two trade suggestions for a sweet shooting big that did not involve FA. I am not sure why you even brought this up.
“Your position is all predicated on George hill taking over at or above parkers level this year. Not likely. Yes I too was very impressed with his maturity when tp was out, but what if hill gets hurt for the season?”
Why isn’t it likely? You agree that Hill’s run as starting PG was impressive. You’re sole reason for rejecting my proposal is that of Hill’s potential injury. Well, what about the years when Jacque Vaughn was TP’s backup. Were those years doomed because Tony “might” get hurt? Of course not. What if Manu gets hurt? What then? You can’t play the “what if” game and you can’t have a backup of equal caliber. Sports doesn’t work that way my man.
Also, my suggestion is not based soley on that. It is also based on the strong odds that Tony will bolt after this season and we will get nothing for him.
“but I can’t see why it would be wise to ship him off for another, higher priced stretch 4 when we are bringing in splitter(hopefully)”
What does Tiago have to do with an upgraded stretch 4? Nothing. Tiago is a center. And Tiago is not going to be enough to put us back into contention. Let me burst that bubble if that’s what you’re clinging to.
“The smart thing to do would bs to wait and let the season play out, watch hills progress, and THEN if Parker wants to bolt, ship him to a team that has a player that is As close to tp’s level and a decent backup pg to fill his shoes.”
Parker is a FA at that point. We won’t get anything for him. He is under no obligation to do a “sign and trade”. That is my understanding on the situation. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
“the above post about cp3 and the potential trade to get new Orleans some cap room makes huuuge sense”
Keep dreaming. Why not just shoot for Bosh this year? Because it is not feasible. I deal in reality and you obviously dabble in fantasy.
July 2nd, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Ok. I just reviewed sign and trade deals. They only are agreed to by the player if they think they can get more money by doing it or the team the player is going to will be over the cap with his new contract.
It is a maybe situation at best.
July 2nd, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Maybe Chris Paul will get frustrated and quietly demand a trade to the Spurs.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5349514&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines
July 2nd, 2010 at 8:04 pm
CP3 trade to the Spurs is so very unlikely. I would absolutely love it. It would be a huge coup. I am certainly not basing any upgrades to the team hoping for it.
July 2nd, 2010 at 8:14 pm
My biggest concern is that we haggle too long with Splitters contract and in a market that is already over inflated who knows what teams might do when the big names go and they are still in need of a big. Could it cause Splitters value to go past the MLE ? I think we should offer the full MLE and then move on. In my opinion the spurs D started slipping when we got away from two rim protectors under the basket.
July 2nd, 2010 at 9:03 pm
It is observed in the article that foolhardy contracts are being signed this offseason. But this is not materially different from other offseasons. Why all of a sudden do foolish contracts scuttle the Spurs’ free agency prospects for the foreseeable future? Yes, these contracts might cause the Spurs to have to spend more for Splitter (it’s money I suspect the Spurs will willingly spend). And yes, they could put Duncan out of reach for an extension or new contract, but I doubt it, given that Duncan’s market value will be assessed without reference to the losers signed by the Wolves. And let’s not forget this is Tim Duncan we’re talking about here. He does put some stock in his loyalty to this franchise. And yes, these foolish contracts might make it harder for the owners’ to plead poverty come next offseason, but, in the end, a lockout will overcome the player union’s resistance such that there will be a new CBA that does not favor the union as much as it currently does. I cannot think anyone can now predict if the new CBA will spell doom for the Spurs. If it does, it will spell doom for many other teams as well.
July 2nd, 2010 at 9:09 pm
@Mark H
Mark, that is a fine statement. Well said.
July 2nd, 2010 at 9:12 pm
lvmainman
July 2nd, 2010 at 6:49 pm
“Don’t forget Bell will never play because he’s injured(torn wrist ligament)….”
That’s an absurd overstatement. For one thing, Bell’s injury is not a major injury. Just some ligament damage to his LEFT wrist, his off hand. And it appears to be healing quite well. And don’t forget, Bell is the 5th best active 3-point shooter of ALL-TIME.
http://dimemag.com/2010/06/nba-rumor-raja-bell-to-the-heat/
“I agree that the Spurs should push the steal of Chris Paul for Tony Parker/Temple.”
That’s never going to happen. Paul is a “franchise” player. Forget about it.
Greg
July 2nd, 2010 at 8:14 pm
Well said.
July 2nd, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Why Caron Butler is bad/no better than Richard Jefferson:
Bad 3pt shooter: 31% for career, never higher than 36% in 8 years, and yet he keeps shooting ‘em
Takes a ton of shots but not great shooter overall: 43% last year, and at 30 years old that number’s probably not going up
Does not pass: Career 2.9 assists per game, 2.1 last season - had a total of 8 assists in Spurs series (over 200 minutes played!)
Turns the ball over a bunch: steals make up for this somewhat, but we’re starting to paint a picture, aren’t we?
One dimensional player: browse his profile at
http://www.82games.com/0910/09DAL9.HTM#onoff
72% of his shot attempts are jump shots, 28% close to the basket. Of those inside shots he only made 43% and had 19% of his attempts blocked. For comparison RJ shot 69% up close and had 9% blocked.
He is a good defender and rebounder. He’s a pretty good scorer but needs to be more efficient. Beyond that it’s pretty much just negatives for this guy.
July 3rd, 2010 at 6:35 am
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!
ROOKIES…………………………..UGH!
Jeff opting out was brilliant on his part..
He knows that it really doesnt matter what happens in SA….If he can get 7 to 10 mil per year and not have to play for Pop, Hes gone! I agree with him 100%!
Spurs unfortunately….Still Stuck with same ol coach. The one that has done little of late other than get brutally out coached.
Doesnt matter what Spurs do in offseason…If Popovich coaches the way he did last season, Spurs are done before they start. Spurs need a new coach with fresh perspective.
Jefferson wasnt the problem either. Pop didnt know how to use him. Since when did Jeff become a spot up guy?
This is actually basic…Without Jefferson, we have no 3 on the roster. With Jeff, still need a back up 3..
Duncan must be moved to the 5. No more dilusions about the 4 spot…Those days are gone. Spurs can back him up with Richards, and if they are smart, Mahinmi.
The 4 Spot is jammed if Splitter comes in…Splitter, Mcdyess, Blair….Kinda crowded. Besides, Pop should call Doc Rivers and get him to give him a block of instruction on how to play Blair the way Doc played Glen Davis. Blair should play between the 3, 4, and 5..depending on opponent…
Say goodbye to Bonner, Mason, Bogans, Jerells….They kill the face of the franchise. Jerrells is the best of that group, just too small…We already have two of him on the roster.
Sign Matt Barnes….He is the kind of iron balls SF that is needed here…
No more Choir boys, no more scrubs…
The leauge is leaving Spurs behind!
If Houston and Dallas make a splash this offseason, the waters get murky with a quickness….
Hope Duncan, Parker, Ginnobli are mandated to the weight room this offseason…All 3 look weak in thier upper bodies and tend to fade at the end of seasons…I see the muscle tone of a WNBA player…Not good!
If not…..Next stop……Lottery
July 3rd, 2010 at 7:02 am
What? Nothing about Ian?
July 3rd, 2010 at 7:51 am
@lenneezz(think I spelled it right this time)
here’s the thing with bonner; why try and overhaul the roster with a stretch 4 BEFORE the season starts??? That’s the point. Look, I never said that I want Matty back, I’m saying it’s probably going to happen due to the financial situation that the spurs are in. Signing and trading only stops the bleeding this year, and however much you love murphey and galinari, they aren’t the spurs’ answer. Duncan is a natural pf, splitter is a center, why would you want to stretch the floor with that combination? 2nd unit; Blair is an under the basket type, mcdyess has range, why stretch the floor? Again, why get an overpriced stretch four at the cost of our starting point guard when we will have Duncan and mcdyess next year who both have a good outside game? I’m saying at least wait and see how we play next year, and then if hill looks as good at pg before the trade deadline, then you do a deal for players that address a need, otherwise it’s just an unnecessary risk. I didn’t propose that we should have an equal backup for tp, but that we should get back equal talent, talent commensurate with tp, both your trade proposals fall Way short. Other 3 pt shooters can be had and without all the limitations of a gimmicky stretch 4. The reason I’m not worried about an upgrade over bonner is because of the way that the spurs can now go back to playing twin towers inside the paint with a guy like splitter. For 2.5 mil a season and no more than 15 mins a game, bonner is the best choice for NOW. Trading for murphey and galinari with Parker isn’t happening, that IS the reality. If I’m wrong when the season is over you can come back and say I told ya so and I’ll agree.
Lastly, I’m not saying that a cp3 deal is likely or even possible, but AT LEAST it makes sense to both teams, unlike going into the season with a single proven pg just so we can upgrade bonner…
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:23 am
Well the rumor on ESPN today is that the Knicks are still going to try and covet Parker once they sign Amar’e and there is a possibility of a sign and trade that involves David Lee. I just dont see it happening though, especially if Tiago comes over.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:37 am
RE: Hill’s “point guard” play while Parker was out.
Guys, there is way too much being put on that stretch of the season. If you read the box score, then sure, it appears that Hill is ready to step in and replace a lot of Parker’s production. But what you need to do is go back and watch game film.
Manu Ginobili was the defacto point guard the entire time Tony Parker was out with Mason handling the duties alongside Hill when Manu was getting a breather.
Leaving Hill as the only point guard would mean you’re relying on Manu Ginobili to stay healthy and play big minutes all season long. Not a likely or good proposition.
And David Lee does not shore up our needs. Again, he’s a box score acquisition. I know the excitement of seeing a “center/pf” with a double-double in the box score, but he is undersized and terrible on defense. It’d be better, and far, far cheaper, to just teach Blair a jumper. Lee would be a bad acquisition, especially if we’re picking up Splitter.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:43 am
“Again, why get an overpriced stretch four at the cost of our starting point guard when we will have Duncan and mcdyess next year who both have a good outside game”
Duncan has a good outside game? Really? Hmm
Dice has a solid 17 footer, no doubt. Doesn’t really compare to a 4 that shoots 40% from 3 does it?
“then if hill looks as good at pg before the trade deadline, then you do a deal for players that address a need”
At that point finding a backup PG would be much harder. Also, Spurs teams usually play the first half of the season figuring things out. Pop experiments with lineups, minutes, matchups, etc… Spurs teams that have gone on to championships kick @ss on the rodeo road trip and the rest of the season. Tough to do that when making big roster changes at the trade deadline.
“but that we should get back equal talent, talent commensurate with tp,”
That is not going to happen. The Spurs are not in a powerful negotiating position. Getting two good/great 3 pt shooters is crucial. Do you think Manu, Hill and RJ is enough from downtown?
” Other 3 pt shooters can be had and without all the limitations of a gimmicky stretch 4″
First off, Danilo is a 3. An athletic big who can move his feet and play D AND shoot the 3 at a 39% clip. Oh, by the way, he is 21 and will only get better. Not alot of limitations there.
Second, what is gimmicky about a stretch 4? Was Robert Horry gimmicky? If so, that is a damn fine gimmick.
Third, what is your suggestion for getting shooters without a trade?
“The reason I’m not worried about an upgrade over bonner is because of the way that the spurs can now go back to playing twin towers inside the paint with a guy like splitter”
So you are saying that getting Splitter is enough to get us back into contention. Ask around if you think that is true.
“Trading for murphey and galinari with Parker isn’t happening,”
I never said it was. I gave plenty of solid reasons why it SHOULD.
“unlike going into the season with a single proven pg”
The 2007 championship we had Tony, Jacque Vaughn and Beno Udrich as point guards. Beno was so young and inexperienced, Pop would not even play him. Basically, all we had was Tony and Jacque. So was Jacque a proven PG? Hell no, he was an experienced backup with way less talent.
It worked in a championship year.
“For 2.5 mil a season and no more than 15 mins a game, bonner is the best choice for NOW”
Bonner made 3.2 Million last year and we’ll see if he gets more lucrative offers.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:49 am
there is a possibility of a sign and trade that involves David Lee.
Forget about Lee, we want Danilo or forget it.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:51 am
ESPN Rumor has Parker and Amar’e wanting to play together in New York.
“Amar’e Stoudemire is expected to sign a deal with the Knicks next Thursday or Friday. Once that’s done the focus could turn to Spurs point guard Tony Parker.
According to Frank Isola of the New York Daily News, a source said Stoudemire and Parker want to play together in either Miami or New York.”
“It’s perfect for Tony because he wants to be in New York and he wants to play with Amar’e,” the source told Isola.
Parker still has one more season on his contract so the only way to get him to New York is via a trade. One potential scenario could have David Lee going to San Antonio for Parker via a sign-and-trade.”
I really hope this is false. I don’t want to give up an All-Star for a guy who cannot play defense. That is a HORRIBLE scenario.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:52 am
In every other major sport the commissioners office can veto a one sided trade (see Oakland A’s via the early to mid-70′s) - except basketball. The Gasol trade ruined the NBA and provided an undeserving Laker team with two championships. That team was nothing more that a perennial first round loser before.
Jerry West was the GM at Memphis and suddenly “retires” and becomes a consultant with the Lakers and this ridiculous trade happens in January without a bidding war at the trade deadline?!?!?!?
It slayed me and the Spurs and the rest of the fans of the sport in the process. It was the moment (along with Game 7 of the Lakers vs. Kings serious of 2002) that I lost some of the blind passion for the sport because you can’t help but feel that David Stern has his invisible hand in all of this.
Now ESPN says something about how the Cavs can trade Delonte, Williams and Verajao for Okafor and CP3. Really? This is what it has become now. I’d happily move Parker, Blair and whatever else for those same two and the Hornets would get more than if they made that terrible trade with the Cavs.
Lastly I hear all this chatter about TP to NY or Miami. Forget David Lee - nice player but if we get Splitter there’s no real place for him. I want Danilo Gallinari part of any deal there. How about Lee and Gallinari for TP and Blair and turn around and move Lee to Miami for their pieces?
With Miami - I can actually see that one happening but it would cost them Beasley, Chalmers and Wright. We’d have to throw in something extra just for the sake of warm bodies, but I’d do that trade.
Beasley is the offense we need - would thrive on the floor with Manu. Chalmers has length and would be a typically solid Spur back-up and Wright is the missing piece on defense that would elevate the Spurs.
How about Lee and Gallinari for TP and Blair and turn around and move Lee to Miami for their pieces?
If Miami gets screwed with LBJ and Wade (shudder!) I can see them desperately doing this move and getting Boozer or Lee and other pieces to compensate. Interesting time for the Spurs.
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:58 am
“Leaving Hill as the only point guard would mean you’re relying on Manu Ginobili to stay healthy and play big minutes all season long. Not a likely or good proposition”
Look Jesse, Hill took the point during that stretch just fine. I agree that Manu demanded the ball when the pressure was on. Hill will learn to assert himself more and more, just like when he waved Manu off the ball vs the Mavs (game 3 I think). We need to bolster our roster and this is the best way. Trading an all star who will most certainly be gone next year.
Don’t you think Danilo would be an outstanding pick up?
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:06 am
Blair shouldn’t go anywher IMO. Package Dice with Tony, but not Blair.
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:28 am
As far as backups go:
Ridnour shoots a bit better and defends better
Duhon shoots the 3 a bit better
Personally, I’d prefer Ridnour just because of his free throws and inside the arc shooting. Either one would work just fine as an insurance policy and would save 6 Mil and would allow us to get Brewer.
Hill-Ridnour
Anderson-Manu-Gee
Gallinari-Brewer
Blair-Dice
Splitter-Duncan
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:33 am
I would hate to see Blair leave ! He only played 3 games with out TD last year. 1 vs. Oklahoma 2 vs. sophmore challenge (all stars) 3 vs. Dallas he averaged more than 20 points and 20 rebounds in all three games. Blair has three more years on his contract at under one million per year. Virtually impossible to replace dollar for dollar. Lets see how good he can get before getting trade happy. just my opinion
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:50 am
@ Greyberger,
You never answered the question! As a GM would you deal Jackson for Radmanovic/Bell - 1 expiring contract or Bonner/Mason - 2 expiring contracts?
@ Jim Henderson,
My reference to Bell “will never play” pertained only to last year. He never played with the Bobcats(5 games), why would he all of a sudden be able to play with the Warriors after being traded?
July 3rd, 2010 at 10:35 am
It appears that Amare Stoudamire is pretty much going to NY. I don’t know where some of you are getting your information regarding Parker wanting to go to NY, but it does make sense. If the Knicks get Amare, Parker would definitely be a great Pick and Roll partner with him. NY would also have the cap room to absorb his contract PLUS offer him an extension, which he would probably accept.
At this point, I’m not a huge fan of trading Parker, but we have to honest about our situation as a team. Even with Parker and RJ, we don’t have the firepower to beat the big boys. Sure Phoenix will be worse next year since Stoudamire is gone, but the Lakers and many other teams will be better next year. We are indeed in an arms race.
As of right now, we need Splitter big time, but we also need 2 other good bench players (this is assuming Anderson can come in and play decently if not then we could use 3), 1 starting SF (Maybe Haiston can help us out…) and another shot blocking big wouldn’t hurt. So in essence we need, at the minimum, Splitter plus 3 other players. Now with RJ opting out, I read that we are about $4 mil under the cap. I think we could offer an underrated guy like Ronnie Brewer a 4 year $16 mil deal. Ronnie is a great defender and can play 2 positions. He would be a great pickup.
After that contract, our cap space would be up and we would be forced to negotiate a trade (or sign and trade). Perhaps we can force a sign and trade with RJ (I have no interest seeing him in silver and black), but if a team like the knicks has the cap room, why would they hook us up? The surest way is to trade Parker in a sign and trade to get back guys like Anthony Morrow, Mike Miller, etc. (I’m just throwing out examples). I don’t want to trade Parker, but with RJ, our trade chip, opting out, it may be the surest way of getting back the pieces we need. Even if Malik Hairston averages 15/8 we won’t have what we need to really compete as this team is currently constructed.
P.S. Lee is a sexy addition on paper, but would, in reality, be a redundant and expensive pickup for the Spurs. Lets do a Tony for Lebron trade!! (J/K.)
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:28 pm
George Hill was a point guard in name and defensive assignment only. The fact of the matter is that he was assisted on over half his buckets, with a good number of non-assisted buckets coming in transition. He also averaged fewer assists than any starting point guard this side of Derek Fisher.
In other words, while he provided some points and defense, he neither created his own shot nor created opportunities for others. When Ginobili went to the bench during that stretch, Hill usually played in tandem with Roger Mason jr. with Mason manning the ball handling duties.
The Spurs played lights out during that stretch because Manu Ginobili emerged as a top ten NBA player, not because Hill was at the point over Tony Parker. And the load he had to carry may have wore him out by the time we hit the Phoenix series-which, once the Suns eliminated Manu as a playmaker, Hill struggled mightily.
I love Hill as a player, but as a shooting guard he’s a strength, as a point guard he’s merely adequate. Your team is better with him as a shooting guard.
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Manu struggled in the playoffs just after his nose was broken. Coincidence? I think not.
So what you’re saying is that the Spurs can not trade Parker. Ok. I disagree but we’ll move past that. How do we get increased shooting? Or do we have enough now? How do we get more perimeter defense? Are you saying we have to stand pat with the exception of Splitter and the LLE?
If you say we can’t trade TP, ow exactly will our roster (in your opinion) shape up?
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:56 pm
GASOL TRADE punked us.We didnt even try to go big vs his softness.We TRIED to out “smart them”with trick-e BONNER LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! u dont sacrifce 2 post playerZ ,high percentage shots, “dunks and put backs”= for 4 people shooting low percentage 3′s.PETER HOLT are you listening?Thats where a coach with nba playing time vs one that doesnt KNOWS better.
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:58 pm
THE REAL fun begins @ Vegas when Ryan Richards twops 40+ 3 pointers and Decolo out shines Gee
July 3rd, 2010 at 1:26 pm
@Hobson, ignore any trade trial balloons coming from the NY Press. NY teams use local media as their personal propagana outlets (literally in the case of Newsday and MSG network, both owned by the same group as the Knicks).
Spurs ex-RJ are not 4m under the cap due to cap holds. And even if we were under, signing Ronnie Brewer for 4/16 would mean we lose the MLE and can’t sign Splitter.
@Lenneezz. George Hill brought the ball to half court, handed to Manu and jogged to Bowen corner. This put the entire offensive load on Manu’s back. That works for a few weeks but if you try it for 100+ games Manu will break down. Also, George was by far our worst player against Phoenix. I like him but it’s absurd to think he can replace Tony yet.
July 3rd, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Shooting would be nice, but you do not trade an important and unique skill set to shore up one that is so abundant in the league. I’m not saying Parker is untradeable, but if you are going to then you better be getting someone you can run your entire offense through for long stretches. Because as it stands, Duncan is no longer a promise to draw double teams and Manu is the only other player on the roster who can break down a defense.
Duhon and Galo are nice, nice shooters. But they got those three-pointers off in a system that generates them in abundance. San Antonio once got its open three-point looks off of Duncan posts, but now get them increasingly off the dribble penetration of Manu and Tony. Why trade for shooters if you risk losing the means to getting them open shots? That aside, none of it addresses the defense, which was the HUGE problem with the Spurs against the Suns.
The Spurs get shooting from George Hill, James Anderson, and Manu Ginobili. Maybe even Matt Bonner for some stretches. You hope that one of the three DLeague prospects develops enough to provide defense and shooting (Hairston, Temple, Gee). And you find a shooter on the cheap.
Of course, all that goes out the window if you get an insane offer for Parker. And I’m not convinced Tony Parker is a future Laker or Knick as many tend to believe. The impending lockout, a player unfriendly CBA, and the fact that most teams with cap space are blowing it this summer lead me to believe that the Spurs have the most leverage.
July 3rd, 2010 at 1:44 pm
doggydogworld
July 3rd, 2010 at 1:26 pm
“@Hobson, ignore any trade trial balloons coming from the NY Press.”
Yeah, I agree that there’s a lot of sh*t floating around with this big free agent orgy. However, if NY loses out on the big 3 (and they very well might) then they might make us an offer we can’t refuse. NY will get big names this summer (more than Amare) if they have to sell their soul. They’ve simply done too much over the past few years not to make a big splash. They’ve promised the fans too much not to come through with at least 2 big names this summer. From the Knicks perspective, Parker makes perfect sense to add along with Amare and certainly would fit in the NY scene nicely. I’m not saying a NY trade is going to happen, but it makes sense for the Knicks to try. Real hard.
“Spurs ex-RJ are not 4m under the cap due to cap holds.”
I’m not necessarily arguing with you, but this article indicates differently. It’s the first time I’ve heard we were under the cap. Perhaps the article is wrong…
http://www.statesman.com/sports/pro/great-news-for-spurs-jefferson-is-out-779576.html?cxtype=ynews_rss
July 3rd, 2010 at 2:14 pm
I hear what you’re saying about how the Spurs offense is going to work. I agree that Duncan is not the automatic double team he once was. But, you are wrong when you say that Manu and Tony are the only players that can break down a defense.
First off, Hill can get past his man. Second, the Spurs pass the ball as good as, if not better than any other team in the NBA. The Spurs now use crisp passing and cutting rather than passing into Duncan and just waiting for a double team. We still go inside out but, it is done differently. Third, we will now have the size to play high/low offense. Fourth, we will be stronger on the glass compared to the last 2 years. You believe the offense will stagnate with Tony. I believe the offense will simply adapt.
By trading Tony, the Spurs will be addressing defense. Danilo is an upgrade of RJ and having the extra cap space allows the Spurs to sign Ronnie Brewer, who provides exactly what the Spurs need.
You are counting on Anderson, a rookie to provide 3 pt shooting. You are “hoping” that one of our D-leaguers will develop a shot. Boner’s problems on the court have been well documented (choking, generates tiny amounts of free throws, etc….) I just don’t agree with hoping for things to happen. Danilo is a great 3 pt shooter. He is also 6 ft friggin 10 at the 3 spot. You also add shooting by subtraction. For all the great things that Tony does, 3 pt shooting is not one of them. Duhon or Ridnour will be better than he was.
I just see all these benefits of trading Tony now, rather than keeping Tony a year and then still having all these problems to deal with then. Not to mention, I bet the Knicks would deal the 2011 #1 pick, to save on cap space to help gun for Carmelo.
July 3rd, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Regarding Hill being able to get past his man…Nope. He struggled to exploit Steve Nash.
Go back and watch that huge game he had against the Lakers. He went off from behind the three point line and he was hot hitting jumpers behind screens. However, rarely did he just flat out drive past Fisher.
Once the Lakers realized that Duncan was not a threat that night, they focused a little more attention on Hill and shut him out in the second half.
The Spurs do have some unselfish players who move the ball (historically), but I wouldn’t call them great passers. And even then, their passing is predicated on someone else setting a defense into its rotations by breaking down the initial defense.
Also, the Knicks 2010 pick went to Utah, so they by law cannot deal their draft pick to us in 2011.
July 3rd, 2010 at 2:34 pm
I firmly believe that the Spurs will be able to break down a defense with screening, cutting and passing. Especially with Splitter, he is a very good passing big man.
July 3rd, 2010 at 3:08 pm
BALLHOG
July 3rd, 2010 at 6:35 am
“Blair should play between the 3, 4, and 5..depending on opponent…”
No, Blair is a 4, period (he WILL be developing his mid-range jumper - trust me). And Splitter is a 5 - not a good enough handle for a 4.
Jacob
July 3rd, 2010 at 7:51 am
“Again, why get an overpriced stretch four at the cost of our starting point guard when we will have Duncan and mcdyess next year who both have a good outside game?”
Actually, we don’t need a stretch 4, and we don’t need Matt Bonner. We a SF, a “role player big” that protects the rim, and any/all additions should ideally be a very good defender. WE DON’T NEED A STRETCH FOUR.
Jesse Blanchard
July 3rd, 2010 at 8:37 am
“And David Lee does not shore up our needs. Again, he’s a box score acquisition. I know the excitement of seeing a “center/pf” with a double-double in the box score, but he is undersized and terrible on defense. It’d be better, and far, far cheaper, to just teach Blair a jumper. Lee would be a bad acquisition, especially if we’re picking up Splitter.”
I agree. Lee is not a good fit. I don’t see a good deal with NY, except perhaps some multi-player combination of Chandler, Gallinari, B. Walker, S. Rodriguez, Duhon, House, draft picks, cash….?
Lenneezz
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:06 am
“Blair shouldn’t go anywher IMO. Package Dice with Tony, but not Blair.”
I agree. For me, Duncan, Blair, & Hill are the only virtually “untradeable” players on the Spurs.
Greg
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:33 am
You’re exactly right, Greg.
Hobson13
July 3rd, 2010 at 10:35 am
“I think we could offer an underrated guy like Ronnie Brewer a 4 year $16 mil deal. Ronnie is a great defender and can play 2 positions. He would be a great pickup.”
My understanding is that you can sign players as if you’re “under the cap” AND use the MLE. It’s one or the other.
July 3rd, 2010 at 3:16 pm
** Correction**
My understanding is that you *CAN’T* sign players as if you’re “under the cap” AND use the MLE. It’s one or the other.
July 3rd, 2010 at 3:21 pm
@ Doggydog
“Also, George was by far our worst player against Phoenix. I like him but it’s absurd to think he can replace Tony yet”
I think it is absurd to not trade a player that can help fill your teams numerous holes when he is going to walk the next year.
Obviously, betting all the chips on George being the perfect replacement for Tony is a bit much. However, I do believe that out of George, Luk or Chris and Manu we can get exactly what we need out of the PG position.
July 3rd, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Filling all of your holes at the expense of your teams biggest offensive strength is also a little absurd.
The Spurs offensive strength is the dribble penetration of Manu and Tony. If you remove that, what are your strengths?
And how do you know he is going to walk next year?
July 3rd, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Great article-one that every NBA fan should read (along with “Sense of Urgency” (Jan 27th). But I disagree with the paragraph about the Spurs demise. Part of the team became old (we held on to Horry and Finley 1, maybe 2 seasons too long). Acquired too many journeymen (Vaughn) guys at the end of the road (Damien Stoudamire), way past their prime (Kurt Thomas, Antonio McDyess), one dimensional (Mason Jr, Bonner, Bogans). Yeah, we know about the “inside” deals that produce the last 3 champions (then GM McHale at Minnesota=Garnett to Boston; newly ex-GM West at Memphis just before Gasol to LA. But while the Celtics drafted well while they were down (Powe, Kendricks, Davis) and the Lakers traded for Odom & drafted Bynum to forge solid front court play, the Spurs front office went about some of their business like they were a MLB team: 2002-drafted Luis Scola 1st round; waited 5 years before letting him go to Houston (he arguably is the best Rocket player the last 3 seasons). 2005-drafted Ian Mahinmi 1st round; 5 years later (2 in Europe, 2 in the D-league) he played his first full season - 26 games, 9 where he played 8+ minutes and put up decent numbers at best. 2008- drafted Tiago Splitter 1st round. Will he be a Spur this November, or is he on the 5-year plan? Another title for the Spurs while #21 is still in uniform seems unlikely now, unless some roster turnover occurs and the younger players we have improve significantly. Let the front office/coaching staff do their best this offseason and extend the 50-win and playoff streak.
July 3rd, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Oh Jesse, nobody knows for sure what Tony is going to do. I’m sure you read the remark about “spending 8 or 9 years with another team for the second half of my career”. It also makes sense to me.
And me personally, I would not sign him to what I think will be large contract demands. I think it will be somewhere between 4/52 and 5/75 and I don’t think he is worth it.
I have explained that I think the team’s offense can evolve into alot of passing, screening and cutting. It helps when you have a 3 that can shoot over people and drive and kick as well. In my scenario we are big, strong and pretty good shooters. We would also go ten deep. Last series with the Suns showed me how that is pretty important. I gather that you didn’t get the same impression.
Obviously, you are a huge supporter of Tony and think the team can’t thrive without his skills. I think the team can’t improve enough while waiting to hear and then service his demands. Let’s leave it at that.
July 3rd, 2010 at 4:51 pm
Jim Henderson
July 3rd, 2010 at 3:16 pm
“My understanding is that you *CAN’T* sign players as if you’re “under the cap” AND use the MLE. It’s one or the other.”
Well then if that article is true and we are under the cap, then we’re screwed. We now have $4 mil to use instead of the MLE of just under $6mil. Can anyone absolutely refute that we are under the cap? Here is the article again. I’m open to any info you cats may have.
http://www.statesman.com/sports/pro/great-news-for-spurs-jefferson-is-out-779576.html?cxtype=ynews_rss
July 3rd, 2010 at 4:54 pm
@Hobson, the article correctly says “the team has eight players under contract for just over $52 million. The projected salary cap is $56 million”. But they do not include 1.1m guaranteed for Anderson or the 3.1m unguaranteed for Hairston/Gee/Temple/Jerrells. Plus 41m of cap holds for RJ, Bonner, Mason, Mahinmi, Bogans and even Robert Horry and some other retired guys. Even if we cut and renounce everyone we can (which would be dumb) we’re still over 53m. Since you can’t use both cap space and MLE, being 3-4m below the cap is pointless.
@Lenneezz - Your theory that we can win a championship by introducing a completely different style of offense that Pop and our start has entertainment value, if nothing else.
July 3rd, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Man, this site really needs a preview or edit option. Last sentence should read “….offense that Pop and our stars have never run has entertainment value…..”
July 3rd, 2010 at 4:59 pm
@Hobson, if you are 4m under you can either use the 4m of cap space OR the 5.8m MLE. You just can’t use both. So being a few million under the cap doesn’t mean you’re screwed. But it doesn’t help you, either.
July 3rd, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Well Dog, then you are narrow minded and stupid. Life in all it’s facets is change.
July 3rd, 2010 at 5:09 pm
doggydogworld
July 3rd, 2010 at 4:59 pm
“@Hobson, if you are 4m under you can either use the 4m of cap space OR the 5.8m MLE. You just can’t use both. So being a few million under the cap doesn’t mean you’re screwed. But it doesn’t help you, either.”
Gotcha. Hopefully we can do a sign and trade with RJ and essentially pick the 1-2 FAs we want (Miller, Morrow, Brewer, what have you). I sure hope we can get Splitter for the MLE. After all is said and done, the offseason still hinges upon him.
July 4th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
This is wierd.
It’s like the same conversation over and over.
Anyway for what it’s worth.
You win with depth right?
We have depth now in our guard rotation…right?
Manu, George, Tony.
32 minutes per night IF all three are healthy.
Anderson will pick up minutes here and there but i’m perfectly happy with him having to fight for his time. Plus there is no way we get through 82 games with those three all being healthy.
The entire idea that we NEED a pass first unselfish point guard is ridiculous.
The spurs play within a defined system, manufacturing shots out of offensive sets. We do not all stand around and wait for Steve Nash to give us an open look.
Tony works well for our needs. George shoots great provides D and will improve as he ages but he is what he is. Manu is the wild card. A SG who can just about do anything.
Tony Manu and George is the best guard rotation we have had in forever why in the hell do we want to change it?
Do we really really really want to go back to Jacques Vaughn style backup pg’s when George falls over?
July 5th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Bushka,
Well said. Our guard rotation is great, one good, one very good, and one great guard.
July 5th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Everyone thinks the Spurs are under the cap. We ain’t!!! When you combine the list of all the parts required to be there, we are well over the cap. When someone says we have 8 players for 52mil we are under the cap, they are wrong. Matt Bonner’s contract counts 200% against the cap even tho he is a FA. We hold his Bird rights. That is 6.5 mil. putting us over the cap. Now as for what I think the Spurs should try to pull off is the trade for CP3. Everyone seems to forget that Monty Williams is now the coach at New Orleans. He was a Spurs as a player under Pop and also an assistant coach under Pop. If CP3 is unhappy with New Orleans, then dont you think Monty Williams would push for a trade with the Spurs to get Parker? I know the Hornet have collison but he is a year away from being the leader of this team. Our main concern is signing Splitter. Then we can worry about the other parts of the off season.
July 6th, 2010 at 8:44 am
BALLHOG
good to see you again man. missed your posts.
i am in agreement with jesse that george hill is not a point guard. this leads me to believe that we won’t have to choose between tony parker and george hill, considering they don’t really play the same position. what will be difficult is seeing how our starting rotations pan out. george hill started most of the season at the 2 guard position, but with the draft of james anderson and how we ended our season with manu starting, how will our guard rotation end up looking?
jesse, do you think it is a good idea to bring back bonner? i completely agree that his skillset is rare, but with his lack of athleticism and teams easily neutralizing his threat in a seven game series, is he really worht being back? and if he isn’t going to play big minutes, won’t that hinder his shooting rythm? i’ve always been on the mahinmi bandwagon (though i have accepted he won’t return) and i am a bigger fan of finding a cheap athletic, defensive big who can body up with LA (mahinmi put gasol on his back last season…felt like that was what we were missing….beautiful) and leaving the stretch 4 shooting to mcdyess and duncan.
raja bell sounds like a good acquisition.
July 6th, 2010 at 10:47 am
I have no problem bringing back Bonner. He’s better than anyone we can find with the league minimum, so his bird rights are an asset in that regard.
We’ve never really overpaid Bonner, just overused him. He needs to be in a situation where he’s not guarding the opposing team’s best offensive big man, so playing with a defensive liability like Blair is not doing him any favors. Maybe with a Splitter, Bonner can be moved to the more favorable matchup and not be such a liability on defense.
July 6th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
“We’ve never really overpaid Bonner, just overused him. He needs to be in a situation where he’s not guarding the opposing team’s best offensive big man, so playing with a defensive liability like Blair is not doing him any favors.”
Actually, Blair playing with the defensive liabilities of Bonner is not doing him any favors. We don’t need a stretch 4 to spread the floor to open up Blair’s inside game. That can be done just as well with a solid SF with some size (e.g., Dorell Wright). Blair needs to be paired with Duncan (TD at center), Splitter with McDyess. We don’t need Bonner. We need a shot-blocker in the paint. How do you think we won all our titles: we had guys that could block shots in the paint. We didn’t used to always have great shot-blockers, but that was when Duncan was swatting back 2.5-3.0 per game. He’s now down to 1.5, and it ain’t going to get any better at age 34.
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