Thursday, July 8th, 2010...8:18 am
Shaq in silver and black?
AOL Fanhouse’s Chris Tomasson has published a report saying that Shaquille O’Neal’s goal is to play two more seasons, and the team he is targeting is your San Antonio Spurs.
He’d really like to go to San Antonio and team with Timmy (Duncan), and try to win one more title,” said the source about O’Neal, who starred in high school in San Antonio.
Spurs general manager R.C. Buford declined comment.
The source said O’Neal, 38, plans to play two more seasons and then retire. He wants there to be a farewell tour in 2011-12, which he expects would be his 20th and final NBA season.
“He wants to sign a two-year deal,” the source said about O’Neal, who made $21 million last season with Cleveland. “And then the second year will be a farewell tour. He can tell a team that you would sell out all 41 games (that season).”
The story states that there is interest on both sides, from Shaq’s camp and the Spurs front office. But the kicker here is that Shaq is reportedly willing to play for San Antonio for the midlevel exception.
But wait, wasn’t the midlevel exception supposed to go to Tiago Splitter?
Well, yes. The latest on the Splitter situation is that the Spurs have yet to offer the Brazilian a contract. But with the cap figure finalized just last night, and today being the first day that teams can officially sign players to contracts, there’s little rush. The Spurs have exclusive rights to Splitter, they don’t have to worry about another team swooping in and offering him more money. The only deadline they have is a reported July 15 deadline for Splitter to complete a buyout from his Spanish team.
San Antonio’s interest in Shaq is somewhat baffling. Outside of Phil Jackson and Mark Cuban, there has been no greater villain for San Antonio Spurs fans than Shaquille O’Neal.
I’m skeptical that RC Buford and co. have plans to add Shaq to the frontcourt rotation. For a team whose pick-and-roll defense led to its demise this past season, adding O’Neal doesn’t help. At all.
One possibility in this is Tiago Splitter’s camp is looking for the full midlevel exception, while the Spurs front office is only willing to part with a portion of that. Showing interest in signing Shaq to the midlevel may be San Antonio’s way of putting pressure on Splitter and his agent to lower their expectations.
The next few days will tell if San Antonio’s interest in Shaq is genuine, or just jostling for position in negotiations with Splitter. But I think one thing’s for certain, Spurs fans would rather have a 25-year-old Spanish league MVP in Splitter than a 38-year-old Shaq looking for one last ring and a “farewell tour.”
216 Comments
July 8th, 2010 at 8:35 am
If he is willing to come off the bench for the vets min then sure why not we would have nothing to lose.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:36 am
“But I think one thing’s for certain, Spurs fans would rather have a 25-year-old Spanish league MVP in Splitter than a 38-year-old Shaq looking for one last ring and a “farewell tour.””
A-MEN
July 8th, 2010 at 8:36 am
Im sorry but shaq n silver n black dont go together
July 8th, 2010 at 8:40 am
Shaq would put in twenty minutes per game. He can lose a little weight and play much better defense. He can still intimidate. He can still score at will and rebound. He is still an upgrade. And frankly I do not hate him the way I hate Kobe or Fisher. If the Spurs were ever to sign Kobe Bryant, I might have to move to another city. Shaq is something of a clown, but there is some affection for him around here. He does have San Antonio roots, after all.
If he is indeed willing to take a small (in relative terms) salary to finish out his career alongside Duncan, who he apparently respects, I think Spurs fans will warm up to this. Also, maybe Shaq would like a shot at dethroning the Lakers. Would folks pay money to see the Spurs play the Lakers, Kobe versus Shaq? Yes, my friend, they would.
If Shaq approaches this with the proper perspective, this could work. And now that I have my appetite whetted, I want both Shaq and Splitter. Is this doable, or am I living in an alternate reality?
July 8th, 2010 at 8:45 am
Hmm… that’s a weird bit of news, to be sure. I’d rather have Tiago at this point, but if Shaq were to sacrifice substantially, I don’t think there would be any harm in bringing him in.
I also don’t reserve the hatred for Shaq that I have for Kobe. Shaq is an interesting personality, and irrational hatred of David Robinson aside, seems like a pretty decent guy.
I’m just trying to imagine what Shaq would do while being coached by Popovich. That would be very, very interesting, to say the least.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:49 am
Forget the MLE, but if Shaq wants to come for the LLE or veteran’s minimum I’m down. Assume they sign Shaq & Splitter & suddenly they have size they’ve never had (not to mention defensive versatility with Dice & Blair off the bench). I would support this but only if the price is right
July 8th, 2010 at 8:52 am
@quincyscott
I don’t trust Shaq to approach anything with a proper perspective.
@Trevor
I doubt Shaq’s willing to play for the minimum. Maybe the LLE, but I don’t see that happening either. I’m thinking the price would be a large chunk of the MLE and any chance the Spurs could sign Splitter.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:55 am
The idea is ludacris…. but, why not? Only if we get Shaq AND Splitter.
I am much more open to this than I was to signing Karl Malone. That guy is just an ass-clown.
Could you imagine the hype? Duncan & Shaq go for #5 together… At least the theater would be great. Plus, we could always use another body against LA.
I never truly hated Shaq, maybe it wad his childlike demeanor.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:55 am
*ludicrous
July 8th, 2010 at 8:58 am
how could the spurs be soo cheap!!! dammit RC the MLE is not too much for tiago splitter you just payed RJ 14million and you dont want to play the top center in europe ???? what gives you finally have the chance to get him and your going to blow it this will seriously piss alot of our spurs fans off scola now this???? get over yourself and give him the MLE shaQ would b a second priority and no the fans dont want shaq ove tiago if he is let go i wouldnt mind someone getting fired is our FO on crack????
July 8th, 2010 at 8:59 am
Apparently I overestimated Spurs fans’ distaste for Shaq.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:00 am
It’s sounds like the Spurs are using Shaq as both leverage and insurance with the Splitter situation. If Splitter has a change of heart about playing for less money than he can make playing overseas then Shaq is fallback.
It’s true that Shaq doesn’t help in regards to pick and roll D his lateral movement is almost non-existent. But he would be another big to throw at the Lakers front court and the road to the Finals still goes through LA.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:03 am
Shaq to the Spurs? A 38-year-old would-be savior? I just can’t see it making the Spurs better. The lateral quickness we lacked on D last season would only be amplified… Is there any compelling argument for a sign-trade for ‘Dyess?
July 8th, 2010 at 9:07 am
zack in the alamo
Zack, this is just a rumor at this point. Take a deep breath and relax. The Spurs front office have a pretty damn good track record. Do we win four rings without Buford? Do we get Ginobilli or Parker? Come on. Have a little faith.
Also, hear me out here. I think Splitter will be a great addition, too. But who knows? He has yet to play a minute of NBA basketball. I watched some of those games he played in the Spanish league. The guys he was playing against were a bunch of stiffs, and he did not dominate them. He is solid, a hard worker, a good shooter, good passer. But he is no sure thing.
My point is, with Shaq you know exactly what you’re going to get. With Splitter, it’s a gamble. I think it’s prudent of the front office to explore their options.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:09 am
Shaq for Spurs fans over the years has been one of those players we love to hate. He’s a bigger than life personality (literally and figurtively), which we’ve honestly never had on the Spurs, at least not one that wasn’t a distraction, i.e. Rodman. I think Spurs fans would appreciate what he would bring to the organization. It’d be a great way to send off the Big Diesel, with one more ring on the classiest organization in the NBA, playing next to the classiest player. I would welcome him to the Spurs.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Re: Andrew A. McNeill
“I don’t trust Shaq to approach anything with a proper perspective.”
Yeh, I hear you. But it’s Shaq’s last hurrah, and he knows it. Remember what he did when he went to Miami. A move to the Spurs might be just the kind of thing that would jump-start his enthusiasm for one last two year push. Maybe he’s had all his fame and glory and money, and now he wants to win one more with a quieter, no-nonsense franchise.
Hey, everybody grows up if you give them enough time. (Well, maybe not Michael Vick.)
July 8th, 2010 at 9:32 am
Isn’t one of the few consensuses (consensi?) among we posters is the fact that our front court lacks athleticism? That our post defense other than Timmy was mediocre at best? How does signing Shaq solve any of this? Timmy was the only decent pick-and-roll defender, and he’s only going to decline.
If Timmy and Duncan play together, you have 2 big, slow guys who can’t guard a stretch 4. If Shaq and Blair play together, they’ll get post-to-post screened to death, putting Shaq on the much quicker 4 and Blair on the much bigger 5.And the Shaq/Bonner combo is scary only for Spurs fans.
Plus he’s a lane clogger on offense. Our guards won’t be able to penetrate, which means no collapsed defenders, which means no open 3′s.
I can only hope this is a smokescreen by the FO.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:33 am
* If Timmy and Shaq play together*
July 8th, 2010 at 9:35 am
Actually Shaq was about the only Cav to show up and play in the playoffs this year. He gave it his all and if its only for us to bring him in to lean on bynum and beat gasol up a little im ok with that. Plus if shaq smells a ring he will play hard we all know that.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:40 am
I think you’re right about the Spurs using Shaq as a bargaining chip in negotiations with Splitter. As has been reported, Minnesota screwed us by signing the lesser player, Nikola Pekovic, to a 3 year 13 million dollar deal. I feel that Shaq saying he’d play for the MLE will be used to convince Splitter that it’s a decent contract, and that we do have other options.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Well said, quincyscott! Sarge, too.
Even back in the day, I hated Kobe, but not Shaq. For one thing, he’s just so enormous out there. For another, he’s a very funny guy.
There are only 2 scenarios where Shaq finishes his career as a Spur.
The first is the least likely: SA and Tiago cannot come to terms, and the Spurs do not find a way to sign Tiago to our roster next season. Then O’Neal becomes an option, though probably not our first one, for the MLE.
The second is far from a lock, but it is possible: through trade. If the Spurs trade RJ and are able to upgrade our talent at the 2 and 3 with the difference between RJ’s new contract minus the MLE, and with the LLE, then we could do worse than add O’Neal as a rotation player. Just shut up, crack jokes, get paid, get more playoff paychecks, and get more rings. He’s a smart and effective passer with great hands who scores easily, who could pair very well with a new and improved Grizzly Blair. Is he on the bench in the final seconds when the game is close? Yes. Do we dramatically increase our Points Differential and number of blow-out wins? Yes.
I wrote about this in the “Addition by subtraction” comments:
July 8th, 2010 at 12:31 am
July 8th, 2010 at 2:50 am
July 8th, 2010 at 9:23 am
As did fellow posters td4life, Ian, and Jacob.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Re: ThatBigGuy
All that you say is true, but we’re not talking about Shaq playing forty minutes a game, or even starting. Having him in the fold would give us more options and more depth. I like what the Celtics had going this past season, up until Perkins went down: four solid bigs that could all contribute. Duncan, McDyess, Blair, Shaq could give the Spurs something similar.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:45 am
@ ThatBigGuy
“Isn’t one of the few consensuses (consensi?) among we posters is the fact that our front court lacks athleticism? That our post defense other than Timmy was mediocre at best? How does signing Shaq solve any of this?”
What’s the alternative if Spurs are unable to land Splitter. What athletic front court player can the Spurs realistically land with their salary cap situation.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:46 am
@ ThatBigGuy
“Isn’t one of the few consensuses (consensi?) among we posters is the fact that our front court lacks athleticism? That our post defense other than Timmy was mediocre at best? How does signing Shaq solve any of this?”
What’s the alternative if Spurs are unable to land Splitter. What athletic front court player can the Spurs realistically land with their salary cap situation?
July 8th, 2010 at 9:47 am
But I want Splitter, too. Because I’m greedy.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:50 am
I haven’t like Shaq since the first day he walked into the league. I’ve often told friends that if he were just 6 inches shorter, he would have been flipping burgers his whole life since he has no discernable shooting skills. However, personal hatred aside here are my two perspectives on Shaq:
From a financial standpoint, (assuming Shaq takes the MLE in its entirety) it would be a shrewd move. Shaq and Duncan teaming up to dethrone team Kobe and win for both #5 (as if the NBA needed even more melodrama) would sell serious tickets. Can you imagine how much money the Spurs would make in simply selling O’Neal jerseys? It is a very safe bet that the $6 mil spent on Shaq would multiply itself many times over in profit. You know people will be packing in every NBA city 2 years out to see Shaq’s “Farewell Circus”. And make no mistake it would be damned near a 3 ring circus if Shaq were involved.
From a basketball standpoint, this makes only marginal sense. If Shaq could get back into shape (I can’t believe I’m saying this since he hasn’t been in shape most of his career) then he could be a valuable contributor for 20-25 min/night. He can come in and play C for Duncan and would certainly be a good rim defender even at 159 yrs old. P&R defense would absolutely kill the Spurs if we couldn’t get Splitter. An aging Duncan and a 380lb Shaq would be layup heaven for a guard like Steve Nash. However, if we could get Splitter, then we might be able to survive defensively.
With all that said, I find myself warming up to this idea if we can get another big (Splitter) who has more mobility and can help with the P&R. I still maintain that a trade with the Warriors would much better meet our long and short term goals as opposed to signing perhaps the biggest front runner in league history and that Shaq cannot help us win another ring. However, if Holt were to pull the trigger on this, he would make some serious coin…
July 8th, 2010 at 9:52 am
I’m fine with it only if all this conditions r met:
1.tiago is signed
2.shaq comes off the bench
3. shaq doesnt get in the way of blair and tiago develompent.
imagine Tim going 2 the bench and shaq replacing him. good luck, driving to the lane.
I think we should offer tiago a contract with heavy back side, use some of the mle and lle and spend it on shaq. one more note, I think in 2 years(when his contract is out) tim will retireas well. imagine shaq tim and pop win a championship and retire together.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:53 am
Anyway, I think our team defense suffered as much from lack of perimeter pressure as from defensive weakness in the back court. We have not found a stopper to replace Bruce Bowen. Maybe a more seasoned George Hill can help fill that role this season.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:55 am
I would take Shaq for the Vet’s min. However, there is no way he would accept that. If we used all or most of the mid level exception on Shaq I would go high and to the right. I would lose all faith in the Spurs FO andfall into a pit of despair, unable to climb out until Longhorn football picks back up.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:56 am
also we shouldnt worry too much about pick n rool, now that phx is out any other team that does it is not much faster
July 8th, 2010 at 9:56 am
@danielruiz
I would also welcome the Big Aristotle to the San Antonio Spurs. But not at the cost of, only in addition to, some perimeter help and Tiago Splitter, as mac has suggested in a previous thread.
The closest thing we have had to a larger than life personality was Avery Johnson, who was legit in that regard. But, obviously, he was no Diesel O’Neal.
I actually remember his first title: Cole H.S. State Champs, 1989. It would be nice to bookend it.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:57 am
If there was only a way to get them both…
There is 96 minutes to be split up between
Duncan - 25
Splitter - 35
Shaq - 7-8
Blair - 20
McDyess - 7-8
McDyess and Shaq to be used situationally for defensive purposes. Shaq to hammer the “Bynum’s” and McDyess to handle the “Dirk’s”
Thats what I am talking about….
July 8th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Most of my rancor is directed to the possibility of this ending up being a Shaq over Splitter move. I don’t mind having Shaq join the team, but only as a compliment to the Splitter signing.
Shaq’s a great guy and could produce 8 and 4 off the bench in 15 mins a game. I just don’t think it very wise to choose Shaq instead of Splitter.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:58 am
On offense there is not enough room in the paint for Tim & Shaq (at the same time). And in today’s NBA, pick and roll defense is critically important. Shaq is poor P&R defender. Lets hope for Tiago who is a good defender.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:02 am
shaq went for 21 points and 4 blocks in the loss to the c’s when he played 26 min. and he weights 325 just for the record. if we could have got that from Ian how much do you think we would pay him right now.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:05 am
I agree with thatbigguy i want both shaq and splitter or just splitter. but if no splitter why not shaq hes at least Ian 2.0
July 8th, 2010 at 10:05 am
ali
I think you may be right. The Spurs matched up horribly with the Suns last year, but I don’t think pick-and-roll will be as likely a Spurs killer this next season. I want to assemble a team to beat the fricking Lakers, first and foremost. We need more quality and depth in the back court, we need to further develop our young talent, and we need to keep our three stars healthy. I think our offense last season was fine, even with all our health issues and other struggles. But our defense sucked for most of the season. That has to change.
Now I’m just rambling. I’m going to go read about something actually meaningful going on in the world…
July 8th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Shaq with Splitter, sure.
Just Shaq, they could use a big body, so maybe.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Why not? If we get Splitter and Shaq, Tiago can start an Shaq should be coming from the bench. That way McDyess can take over TD without losing size. Dejuan can cover Jefferson’ place specially if he improves his mid-range shooting and we get a more balanced team with every position covered.
Shaq can “school” Tiago during the training sessions, and they can harden him much quicker.
For this to happen, Shaq should accept a big salary cut, and also be aware of his bench role. To make him sign they can use a 3 point reasoning.
1 You get a ring
2 Kobe doesn’t get a ring, you get even and also spoil his three-peat.
3 Sign on the dotted line
July 8th, 2010 at 10:14 am
i mean the 3 year 13 mil deal they did with peklovic would be just 4.3 mil a year, which dosent even take up the whole mle. if we could just convince splitter to hold his horses for a couple seasons until duncan retires for a huge payday for tiago, then we’d be set, and then the rest of the mle and lle could be used for shaq,and i guess we’d be aite. but then we would have a problem with our perimeter shooting once again…
July 8th, 2010 at 10:20 am
Zainn - you are going to be surprised with Anderson. I hope he makes you eat those words. This kid can damn shoot. I would say every bit as good as JJ Reddick. I doubt if he is as good as Kyle Korver at this point in his career, but a huge step up from where we were last year. Hopefully he is better than average perimeter defender.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:28 am
from a previous post:
“just for the fun of it, let’s imagine that Pop is gonna give serious tick to the young guys who prove to be as talented as we hope. And through the moves I hinted at previously, we surround them with smart veteran players to coach them on the floor, as Boston did with Perkins and Rondo in their championship year.
With that in mind…
Starting 5:
TP, James Anderson, D Wright, TD, Splitter
2nd Unit from Hell:
Hill, Raja Bell, Manu, DB, Shaq
[and possibly Dice as our 5th big, getting more minutes on nights we rest Duncan and O'Neil, and from Shaq and Blair in the playoffs.]
We sell out home games for 2 straight years, and Shaq goes out David Robinson style, after two Spurs’ championships. That’s right, we finally win back-to-back the next two seasons! ”
If we could get a 22ppg p-n-r defensive big, instead of Shaq, I’d do it… but who is that guy?
July 8th, 2010 at 10:39 am
Travis Outlaw just got a 5 year $35 mill deal with the Nets! At this rate RJ may very well score him a $10mil/year deal. We sure need to do a sign and trade with that bum…
July 8th, 2010 at 10:55 am
I say we do this only…ONLY, if Dennis Rodman, Scottie Pippen, Patrick Ewing, and Domonique Wilkins each come out of retirement and join the Spurs as well.
C’mon now, the Spurs will risk turning into a circus act if they sign Shaq.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:00 am
somebody get TradeTP to look up shaq’s career playoff averages. I think that will settle this once and for all and prove that we should do anything we can to get this guy!
July 8th, 2010 at 11:07 am
@Hobson13
If Shaq was 6 inches shorter he would have been a lineman in the NFL. Say what you want about the guy, but he’s huge and (was) athletic…that just plays well in sports.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:07 am
This is just silly. The Spurs do not need a 38 year old, out-of-shape, injury-prone prima donna who moves at a slothlike pace.
He does not offer much we can’t find elsewhere for a third fo the price. Nor does a serious franchise like the Spurs need to participate in a farewll tour for a guy who should have left the league two years ago. It’d just be a distraction.
I buy the analysis of the original post- to the extent that there’s anything legit to this, it’s to send a message to Splitter that he needs to accept something less than the full MLE or risk staying stuck in Europe for two more years.
Right now he’s the same age Manu was when he came over- 25 and full of promise. Two years from now, he’ll have lost some shine. This is just a tactic.
I want no part of the Shaq circus. I like my Spurs competitive and drama-free, especially if the drama adds little to the win quotient.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Travis Outlaw got 5 yrs - $ 35 million.
I’m sure Jefferson wants the same. Spurs should say no thanks.
That probably means Childress, Barnes, etc will get similiar offers from Wizards, Clippers, Twolves, Knicks, etc.
The Spurs are completely stuck. I still don’t understand why with 6 expiring contracts last year, the front office sat on their hands doing nothing. I am losing faith in the willingness of the Spurs to improve the team after the Jefferson fiasco.
Spurs should dominate summer league with their roster.
http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/10707_spurs_summer_league_roster.html
July 8th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Does it matter to the Spurs if we sell out 41 away games during his farewell tour? Doesn’t the gate go to the home team?
July 8th, 2010 at 11:20 am
At first thought, I laughed at this idea. Shaq? Spurs? C’mon on.
The more I think about, the more I like it. I believe that Shaq would be a man on a serious mission vs LA.
If we matched up vs LA in the playoffs? Wow. I wouldn’t be surprised if Shaq put Kobe, Pau or Ron ron promptly on their @ss, numerous times. That is one cat even Artest wouldn’t start chit with.
The size to bang with the Lakers, Celts and any other team that goes big. Great drama as well.
He would have to agree to take a seriously reduced role. He would get some DNP’s. In certain circumstances Shaq could be very useful though.
I agree with most of the posters who say Shaq only if it’s with Tiago. Go for it.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:30 am
Check out my thoughts on the NBA offseason thus far:
sportsaccordingtome.com
July 8th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Three Words: DEAR! GOD! NO!
I’m sorry but I don’t want the man-boy who once called David Robinson a PUNK to ever wear the Silver and Black.
Other than that, great article!
July 8th, 2010 at 11:56 am
I dislike Shaq just as much as the next Spurs fan but its about the Team Name on the front of the jersey more then the last name on the back. If he can really help then why not. We accepted Robert Horry didn’t we.
But we don’t take Shaq over Splitter, no way no how.
July 8th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Amazed at the number of comments to come in so quickly for this post.
Shaq can serve peanuts in the balcony section, if he doesn’t eat them all.
Big men: Duncan, Splitter, Dice, Blair, Shaq or Bonner?
July 8th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
quincy scott,
ok i took a deep breath …… and im still freakin out! haha no let me explain the reason im upset is because it doesnt look like its a double frontline pickup coming our way (dont get me wrong i would love to have splitter and shaq) its sad the spurs dont work that way if you havent noticed lol
I think this is a choice of take shaq and let him ride out 2years with timmy and try and get a ring and maybe hit the lottery after they both leave
or take splitter try and incorperate him into the spurs(going to take alot of effort from pop) and compete after timmy leaves somewhat never really getting great picks from the draft and just being an average team ww/tony gone and all . barely staying afloat
i think theres total upside to getting splitter who knows how good he’ll be and in the meantime we make a hell of a trade for tp and draft picks……to me a splitter ultamatum w/shaq spells a white flag and sets the time for spurs death. (of course until we get a hell of a pick)
July 8th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Jermaine O’Neal got 2 yrs - $12 million from Celtics
NO WAY are the Spurs that dumb to offer Shaq the same!
July 8th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
ThatBigGuy
July 8th, 2010 at 9:32 am
“Isn’t one of the few consensuses (consensi?) among we posters is the fact that our front court lacks athleticism? That our post defense other than Timmy was mediocre at best? How does signing Shaq solve any of this? Timmy was the only decent pick-and-roll defender, and he’s only going to decline.”
I’m with you on that one, BigGuy. For it to have any chance to work at all, Shaq would have to check his ego at the door, accept a very limited role (15-20 mpg.), and a lot of nights off, play for no more than the LLE (I’m not giving up Splitter for him - are you crazy!), and I don’t think he could possibly and/or graciously accept all those conditions. It’s just not going to happen. Also, at this point of his career, he’s more of a distraction than useful (a farewell tour! - please!). This is basketball, not a marketing gig.
Este
July 8th, 2010 at 9:46 am
“What’s the alternative if Spurs are unable to land Splitter. What athletic front court player can the Spurs realistically land with their salary cap situation?”
With Splitter, all they need is a scrappy role player that can defend & block shots for 12-15 mpg. Joel Anthony & Lou Amundson are prime possibilities for the LLE.
Hobson13
July 8th, 2010 at 9:50 am
“Can you imagine how much money the Spurs would make in simply selling O’Neal jerseys? It is a very safe bet that the $6 mil spent on Shaq would multiply itself many times over in profit.”
I understand your point, Hobson. I just have to share with you my distaste for ploys “to sell tickets”. First, I’ve been a businessman for a long time, so I understand the marketing angle. Believe me. But I have to tell you, all the hype for the sake diving a profit to sell more crap is getting really old. Even this whole free agent circus is disgusting in many ways (Wade & Bosh doing a documentary, and LeBrons big TV announcement!). Do I really want a Shaq circus to “sell tickets”, or do I want to sell tickets the old fashioned way - BY GETTING TO THE NBA FINALS, multiple times over the next decade, and hopefully coming out on top in some of them. Does acquiring Shaq do that? Sort-term, maybe, but I doubt it, and at what price? Does it help us intermediate to long-term? Certainly not, particularly if we paid him anymore than the LLE. In the final analysis, I think signing Shaq would be a mistake. He’s really not a great fit. In fact, the older & less dominant Shaq gets, the harder it is for him to fit on any team, in my view.
“I still maintain that a trade with the Warriors would much better meet our long and short term goals as opposed to signing perhaps the biggest front runner in league history and that Shaq cannot help us win another ring.”
Now, that I agree with!
July 8th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
the only problem is that other teams would be willing to use hack a shaq on us, the team that invented the hack. I am willing to guarantee that if shaq was in silver and black, the phoenix suns would definitely do it to obtain revenge, and then we would just take shaq out of the game
July 8th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
What’s the difference between MLE money and veteran minimum? $3-$4 million a year?
Shaq’s made hundreds of millions of dollars in his career, would $3 million make a big difference at this point?
I say get it him if we can still bring in Splitter.
July 8th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
I agree with what another poster said: there really isn’t any more pick and roll offense in the West. New Orleans’ left when they traded Chandler and Utah’s and Phoenix’s P&R won’t be as good.
Shaq closes his basketball career where it began. It would be un-Shaq for him to do otherwise.
July 8th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
ali
July 8th, 2010 at 9:52 am
“I think we should offer tiago a contract with heavy back side, use some of the mle and lle and spend it on shaq.”
It’s not within the rules to combine the use of the MLE & the LLE.
“…. one more note, I think in 2 years(when his contract is out) tim will retireas well. imagine shaq tim and pop win a championship and retire together.”
Yeah, so we can all implode together in the next few years. What’s with the short-term thinking?
mac
July 8th, 2010 at 10:28 am
Again, how do you SPECIFICALLY acquire all these new guys?
sydneylla
July 8th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Well said.
July 8th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
aren’t we old and slow enough? id rather see us not win a title and build for a future than fizzle and add 370 pounds to our roster.
please don’t add shaq
July 8th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
@Jason Roberts
It’s true that Phoenix won’t be what it was with a Nash & Amare pick-and-roll, same with NOLA. But the NBA is still a pick-and-roll league. And though there won’t be the same tandems that have killed the Spurs in previous years, every team relies on that offense in some way and every team needs to be able to defend it well.
July 8th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
PLEASE.GOD.NO.
July 8th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Jim Henderson
July 8th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
“But I have to tell you, all the hype for the sake diving a profit to sell more crap is getting really old.”
I understand what you are saying. From a financial point of view, a Shaq signing makes sense, but I would also add that it is essentially waving a white flag in regards to competing for championships. Shaq doesn’t fill our need for 3pt shooters, a good perimeter defender, a need for another big to help Duncan in the P&R. While he would put people in seats, he would also turn his tenure in San Antonio into a 3 ring circus.
From a basketball point of view, I think a Shaq signing could be construed as Holt saying, “Ok, the championship window is shut so let me make back some of the money I spent on the luxury tax.”
I’m pretty much in agreement that I don’t want to see Shaq in a Spurs uniform, but I sure wish the FO would make some moves. This team is cannon fodder next year as currently constructed. No word yet on Parker. Nothing on a sign and trade with RJ. Nothing new on the Tiago Splitter situation. In the meantime Free Agents are being taken off the market at break-neck speed. If the FO strikes out on making moves this summer, we might as well scuttle the team.
July 8th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Yeah but he could also get injured and be a bust. At 39 years old, and all the wear and tear? His statistical totals were his lowest last year. Not the same Shaq.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
IGNORANTS
We will all have our own opinions about the merits of signing Shaq now, but anyone who criticize him as a basketball player in his prime doesn’t obviously understand anything about this sport.
But, don’t take my word for it.
The late John Wooden, in response to those who criticized Shaq saying he was only big, once replied: “Take a piece of paper, and start noting every post move Shaq makes when he gets the ball in the low post. By the end of the game you will have probably filled up your page. Now try that with any other big and see if you get to half page”
SMALL FORWARD
Discussing Shaq is all nice and well but, where’s our starting SF???????
Some of you guys are actually considering beating the Lakers? No really, being a fan entitles us to some liberties, but that is nonsense. Unless of course Lebron is gonna announce he’s coming to the River Walk…
NOT RELATED
Unless the sign Lebron too, giving Stoudemire the MAX is one of the stupidest moves ever. I always though Walsh knew what he was doing. They must be getting Lebron too.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Shaq at the vet minimum plus Splitter with the MLE would do wonders for the Spurs rotation of big men. I know it’s been stated many times over but if Shaq was willing to play for Ratliff money then I see no reason why our beloved Silver and Black can’t have both Shaq and Splitter. Splitter has most everything Shaq does: inside game, rebounding, defensive presence in the post. Also, he has one thing Shaq never had: a low-mid range jumper. Man, I have been waiting years for Splitter to join the Spurs I hope a deal gets done this time.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Hobson13
July 8th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Well put, and I understand your frustration. That said, Lebron still represents a bit of a log-jam until tonight. Also, the Spurs have until 7/15 (Splitter’s opt out deadline) to make sure they’re playing out their hand in the best interests of the team. Like you, I am anxious not knowing what are the handful of moves the Spur FO is seriously looking at. The good news is that there still is a lot of good players on the board. After Lebron signs though, I believe domino’s could start to fall at an even more rapid pace (Lee should be one of the first to move after LeBron’s decision). I just hope the Spurs are eager to do something that can benefit the team.
I still think the Spurs should be looking at trades of Parker, McDyess, & a sign & trade for RJ, perhaps put Splitter in a deal for a star PF or center, and of course, shop for LLE candidates. It seems like NY, the Clippers, the Warriors, and perhaps Miami or Orlando would be the most likely teams to get involved with us in trades.
The following is a list of guys, by position, that still appear to be on the board as of now. They are listed in approximate order of when I expect them to “move”, with an asterisk next to the players I would expect the Spurs may still have a realistic shot at, and some interest in:
PG’s:
Felton
Ridnour
House
Bynum
Fisher
Robinson
Lowry
SG’s:
Morrow*
Redick
Bell*
T. Allen*
W. Matthews*
Foye
SF’s:
Miller
Childress
Brewer*
Korver
Barnes*
Q. Richardson
Wright*
Butler*
PF’s:
Lee
Scola
Ty Thomas
Haslem
Amundson*
C’s:
B. Miller
S. Oneal
Ilgauskas
B. Wallace*
J. Anthony*
Actually, when I look at the list, there’s not a ton of options left with FA’s that we could possibly want AND get. So I hope the FO also has some trade ideas in mind!
That said, I wouldn’t mind getting Brewer or Wright, and Anthony or Amundson. But what are the chances we can get two of those players?
Getting something for RJ could be the biggest return for the least risk to the team, but can we get lucky and get rid of him for a solid piece or two? Unfortunately, in my view that’s a big “if”
July 8th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Nobody is claiming that with Shaq we are a lock o beat the Lakers. My argument is that we need to design a team that can compete with what the Lakers do. That means, among other things, that we need an inside presence. Going small, as we have been doing for several years now, is a way to compete with the Mavericks and Suns of the world, but you will not beat the Lakers with that formula.
Adding depth and quality post players has to be addressed if the Spurs want to compete with the best in the West, which at this moment is the Lakers. And, as the Celtics showed in the finals, you don’t have to have All Stars at every position to beat LA.
I am excited about Splitter and hope we sign him, but I remain cautiously optimistic about him because he has not played against an NBA level of talent.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Ever since one of my nba2k Spurs teams ended up with Shaq, I’ve always thought it made a little sense for him to finish his career in San Antonio.
1) I don’t see him as a villain anymore. It’s like Charles Barkley-as soon as he wasn’t beating us in the WCF, I started appreciating his personality.
2) He’s from San Antonio-and to this point, SA hasn’t benefited from his amazing NBA career. This homecoming would bring a lot of money and attention to the Spurs and SA at large.
3) I kind of see him and Timmy as a yin to the others’ yang. Their careers are sort of equal and opposite. It’d be fun to have them finish together.
4) He actually looked as good as he has in a long time in the playoffs this year. He lost a “ton” of weight, and seemed fairly spry. If he is actually motivated to win a championship, maybe there’s a few sets where we could use him.
All this said, I agree that there’s no way RC does this if it precludes the signing of Splitter.
I say, Shaq for the VM, Tiago for the MML, and watch those bobble heads fly off the shelf.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
Apparently the Suns/Knicks are actually doing a sign & trade for Amare? They don’t say what players are involved:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AqP35CzNsFBEz6MCCuqBWVK8vLYF?slug=ap-knicks-stoudemire
July 8th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Front-court duo of Duncan and Shaq (or pair any 4/5s with Shaq for that matter) will be torched by the opponent’s PnRs every night. Spurs forwards/centers aren’t the quickest in the league, so why would they even consider going slower?? Also I doubt Shaq willl accept anything less than MLE money.
I agree with you Andrew, in saying that Spurs FO are using Shaq as a leverage to lower the price on Splitter.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Reasons why I’ve lost faith in the front office in the past year.
2) Not signing the last option on Ian Mahinmi’s contract for 1 yr - $1.78 million.
Now, I truly don’t know if he can play. But, he did produce 15 pts, 9 reb, in 21 minutes in the only game he played all year.
He was a 1st round draft pick in 2005 that the Spurs have invested an immense amount of time developing, waiting out injuries and now he’s healthy but he’s not worth 1 yr - $1.78 mil? Huh? I don’t get it.
Can’t wait to see the Ratliff type signing the Spurs get at the NBA minimum this year.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
@spacejason3d
Shaq isn’t exactly “from” San Antonio. If I remember right, he only spent two years in SA, his junior and senior years in high school.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Reasons why I’ve lost faith in the front office in the past year.
3) Not signing Bobby Jones to a 3 yr - NBA minimum deal, only with 2 yr’s guaranteed, and the 3rd yr buyout.
Bobby Jones was signed by the Spurs on a 10-day contract and let go. He has the potential to be a Bruce Bowen clone.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bobby-Jones-351
Why sign him?
1) The Spurs had just traded Bruce Bowen to the Bucks.
2) They needed a wing defender.
3) Bobby Jones had played for 8 teams during the season and was clearly desperate for a chance at sticking in the NBA.
4) The Spurs have proven the ability to help players grow and impove.
5) He would’ve been young and cheap
The Spurs signed Keith Bogans.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Reasons why I’ve lost faith in the front office in the past year.
4) The team if the Spurs front office were on their game, the team would be the following:
PG - Parker, Hill
SG - Jackson, Ginobili, Anderson
SF - Jones, Gee, Hairston
PF - Duncan, Blair
C - Splitter?, McDyess, Mahinmi
Team Salary?
Assuming the full MLE for Splitter, $70 mil - right @ the salary cap penalty threshold
Expensive(over $8 mil per) - Parker, Jackson, Ginobili, Duncan
Mid($3-$7 mil per) - Splitter, McDyess
Cheap(under $2 mil per) - Anderson, Blair, Jones, Gee, Hairston, Mahinmi, Hill
Old(27 & up) - Parker, Jackson, Ginobili, McDyess, Duncan
Young(26 & under) - Anderson, Blair, Hill, Splitter, Jones, Gee, Hairston, Mahinmi
All but 4 players signed for 2011-12. Pop could limit minutes for vets during the season and develop youngsters for playoff time.
After signing Horry, Barry, getting Finley via amnesty, trading for Nazr, drafting Hill, Blair, Ginobili, Parker, etc., etc., the Spurs front office has seemingly taken a yr off and given up. I hope this isn’t the case.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Here’s a deal:
How about something like Parker, RJ, & McDyess (and/or Mahinmi, Bonner, or Mason) to Orlando for Nelson, Gortat, & Pietrus.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Ian
July 8th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
I agree with you’re points about Shaq in this post.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Reasons why I’ve lost faith in the front office in the past year.
1) Thinking trading for Jefferson, signing McDyess, and drafting Blair was enough.
It seems the Spurs front office decided boom or bust, don’t do anything until next year.
Stephen Jackson was available for the Spurs 7th(Bonner) and 8th(Mason) best players. Stephen Jackson ($7 mil) was off a season of 20 pts, 5 reb, 5 asst. One of only 6 NBA players. ( Kobe Bryant - $21 mil, Lebron James - $15 mil, Dwyane Wade - $15 mil, Chris Paul $12 mil, Andre Iguodala - $15 mil)
You’d think every team in the NBA would have 1 - 20pt, 5 reb, 5 asst player on it, good teams and especially bad teams, right??
Stephen Jackson @ half price for the next 3 yrs, had knowledge of Spurs system, proven winner (3 - 3ptr’s in 4th qtr of clinching game 6 vs Nets), wasn’t worth trading for?
The Spurs kept Bonner and Mason.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
If we cand have Splitter and Shaq it would be OK
Shaq can average 600FG% and some rebounds but a great defense agains big man like Howard and bynum even if he cant defend the pick & roll
If you think in 96 minutes
Well its enough time for everybody
Splitter 25 min
Duncan 25-min
Blair 20
Shaq 13
Mcdyess 13 and he can defend Dirk
And its cool to have 5 big men in the rotation. Just look at boston. Kendrick perkins get injury in the finals!!!
July 8th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Again- let’s be clear. Shaq, regardless of his star persona and name, is no longer a difference maker, at least not at the price he would demand. He does not improve this team.
In fact, I would argue that a guy like that is actually counterproductive because he sucks up so much oxygen. It’s less objectionable if a guy like Kobe or LeBron sucks ups all the air in the room. They are doing things on the court to justify it, to the degree that it can be justified. But Shaq isn’t on of those anymore- not for a long time. But he can still be a locker room problem.
In pure basketball terms, he is little more than a gimmick these days. This is not a man who would be quietly accepting of being told by Pop: “We’re going to play you in about 60 games, you’ll average 12-15 minutes and we want you to focus on rebounding, blocking shots and being a low -post decoy for Manu and James Anderson.”
Even if h could do thos things, I don’t think he would.
He is a black hole offensively and a liability on defense.
Instead, let’s sign, oh I don’t know, a 6-11, 25 year old Eurpoean League MVP with 6 to 8 years of solid upside. Anybody like that an option for us?
We don’t have the resources to pursue both players and frnakly, I don’t want both. Even if we had the resources to sign both, I’d rather have someone like Brad Miller than Shaq. He can knock people over six times a night too and at least he can extend the floor.
This kind of rumor really irks me because it’s so antithetical to what the Spurs are about. It’s the kind of thing Mark Cuban or Dan Snyder would do. Ooh, shiny big name player past his prime. Must have on team! Give money!
When July 15th rolls around, I’m hoping Splitter is a Spur and this Shaq thing was just one big bad dream.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Jim Henderson,
The thing about selling tix the old fashioned way by getting to the Finals repeatedly is easier said than done. Whereas selling tickets through a star show such as described here is just sales and brand building, and if the opportunity is genuinely there, then it’s a good business move. The more money Holt makes, the better it is for us fans in the long run, because the more potential there is for him to spend over the cap during his tenure as owner.
That said, I don’t expect this organization to make a move like this Shaq one unless they see at as a good basketball move. The only way that happens is if we sign Splitter first, and Shaq is a role-player.
When mac first commented on these scenarios in the other thread, he said “I am not saying that this [Shaq acquisition] is the best roster we could parlay an RJ to Miami trade into” and he also mentioned a scenario netting us Morrow and Wright instead of Shaq and Wright.
In my past posts, I have stated a preference for 2 out of 3 from Morrow, Childress, and Wright. So I would prefer that deal to the Shaq one. I have also repeatedly stated that I don’t expect much to happen (unless we get flat-out outbid on RJ, which would be great by me). On paper, mac’s fantasy roster (who knows what’s doable) is something that approaches the value that the GS trade of weeks past offered the Spurs. Does it make us older? Yes. But with so many high IQ vets on the team, we could see accelerated development of the younger guys, including Anderson. I think mac has a point there. If we maximized the Duncan era, and Anderson, Wright, Hill, Splitter, and Blair all became championship-tested vets, we would be in fairly good shape going forward. You and I have always disagreed on this point: the Spurs aren’t gonna open up a post Tim & Manu championship era without an intervening, and extremely lucky, trip to the lottery. I say stack the deck if we can. Though I doubt we can.
(And of course if LBJ goes to Miami, then their interest in RJ vanishes, leaving only NJ, NY, and maybe Cleveland to throw money at RJ.)
July 8th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
What about TD in this discussion? Shaq’s comments refer to a farewell season after the next. How does this relate to Tim’s time line for his career end? Are the Spurs going to usurp Tim’s alignment alongside Shaq and throw that curve out the window by signing O’Neal?
If Tim approves of the deal, sobeit. I would hope that these factors are accounted for prior to any suggestion of signing Shaq. He has constantly taunted Tim through out his career and beaten the path that Tim is partially inferior to his own. From a Spurs’ fan’s eyes it has appeared to be one of Shaq’s inferiority complexes. That is to say he criticizes Tim for sake of the reality that Tim’s function over his form is better in the long run and more appreciated by most purists of the game.
The great shame would be to not only sign Shaq but also diminish Tim’s career achievements in the process. It seems inevitable that comparison’s will be made and given Shaq’s need for the big lights he would take away from Tim’s just applause.
That, more than anything, would be unacceptable.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
I really really don’t like that deal Jim. I would be on board with bringing in Wright somehow…some..how…don’t ask me I just don’t see us getting anyone.
To be brutally honest I think right now our development of a small forward internally is how the franchise is looking at moving forward this season.
Pietrus is a hell of a player when healthy and focused, but he is very rarely both at the same time.
Great athlete but constantly missing games. Weird thing is i keep picking him up in fantasy leagues and tearing my hair out with his fluctuating performances despite already knowing this.
As far as the shaq thing goes, I feel more inclined that it’s shaq using us for leverage.
One thing about Shaq that stands out is the necessity for him to feel like he is the big show. Taking the mid level exception must kill him. Having very little interest in his services at all is probably more humble pie than he will happily consume.
Trying to leverage further offers from Atlanta or maybe let other contenders see that he is available at a discount is what he is all about.
Anyone that promotes their services by offering to fill stadiums on his farewell tour smacks of a towering arrogance.
The kind of towering edifice to ego in which humans like Shaq and L.B.J are well ensconced.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Iv when Jackson was available we’d already swung for the fences with Jefferson.
You don’t like Manu? Because if we had of pulled Jackson in as well we were 100% not resigning Manu.
The way Jefferson was crashing and burning there was no way we were going to get a taker for 2 years at nearly $30 million to take him off our hands.
I am not saying the front office picked right.
I am saying that when they traded for Jefferson they gave away bugger all and the move was lauded around the league as an absolute home run smash.
It started the whole arms race in the West mentality.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
@ Jim
Interesting…. Is there any way that the Knicks would be dumping Lee? That would be a terrible move for the Knicks. They would just gain another 20/10 guy that fits the up tempo system but is injury prone. I certainly dont’ want to see Lee in a Suns uni.
As far as Shaq we can sum up the whole thread with this: “If he’s willing to take the LLE or vet min (means Tiago is still coming) and check his ego at the door… why not?”
Likelyhood of all of that happening??? Slim and none. that’s not in his nature. If this was 2005, sure I’m all over it. His P&R defense is horrible, he only played like 50 games last season. How many games did we flame out with free throws? Yeah that’ll help… His minutes would hamper Blair’s development unless he took a really unselfish attitude and came off the bench like our other superstars have (he won’t he’s got an uberpseronality). He’d probably nickname himself the Big Jalapeno or somethign like that. He was great but so were Nique and Moses Malone. We signed them and they brought zero championships our way. If you are getting schooled by Noah in the playoffs, the magic 8 ball says “outlook not so good.” No thanks unless we get Splitter and the Big Fiesta. The Celtics are expressing interest in him now so maybe it’s off the table. It would be a media circus and how long till that gets on Pop’s last nerve?
July 8th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Okay, I’ll go out on a limb. I just don’t buy the rumors streaming across the internet that LeBrons going to the Heat to play with Wade & Bosh. They’re a long ways off from winning a title with those two anyway. I say he stays in Cleveland.
Here’s my point: LeBron is really into enhancing his marketing potential. What bigger PR blunder could you make than to go on national TV to stick a knife into the back of a “sports-world demoralized city”?? That doesn’t ring true to me. And second, LeBron is a MAJOR capitalist. He’s NOT going to leave 30 million on the table to go rotate Batman & Robin roles with Wade in south Beach. No way, LeBron likes to be THE man. And he REALLY likes money, he LOVES “image”, and he’s going to want to come out of this like a HERO. What better way than to go on national TV to turn down the HEAT offer to stay with the downtrodden city of Cleveland, AND, having the benefits of his “dog & pony show” go to the boy’s & girl’s club of America? And it’s not like LeBron would be staying with a crappy team or anything. The Cavs won 60+ games last year. No, the ruse is just about over:
LeBRON STAYS IN CLEVELAND!
July 8th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Shaq is a 300lb rock who will sink whichever ship he gets on to. Yeah you can not pound this rock. AI, Tmac, Shaq: all should retire. that would be the best free agent class to retire simultaneously.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Jim you are missing one very salient point.
Lebrons also an exhibitionist wanker.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
That he is Bushka. And a game 5 tanker.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Regarding Jim Henderson’s list of potential Spurs:
Most of those guys wouldn’t help us become a truly elite team, but nevermind that.
Tim Thomas shouldn’t even be on this list. He is gonna be well paid by Charlotte, who doesn’t need RJ. So, I guess this is a TP to Charlotte scenario. Anyway, given Larry Brown’s and Thomas’ mutual desire to work together, I don’t see him leaving, unless somehow they get outbid by NJ or Mia. All the other teams with money have starting PFs already, but the still have more money and more PT than the Spurs. For similar reasons, I think Amundson is as equally out of reach as all the other PFs listed.
I’m not saying this just to be critical of Jim, but sadly, I don’t see any way in the world that Utah doesn’t retain W. Mathews. And worse, there is a very strong possibility that both Chicago (esp. if they don’t get LBJ) and NJ bid very high on Anthony Morrow and make him their starting SG… how does Morrow sign for the LLE?
July 8th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
I was with you about Lebron staying in Cleveland. No way he puts on a dog and pony show just to stick it to every loyal fan there. However… I did say yesterday that if his press conference is in his home town he stays, if it’s at a neutral site… then all bets are off. If it’s in south beach then it’s a no brainer. SO his conference is in Greenwich Conn. Supposedly it’s pretty darn close to Madison Square Garden. So my bet is New York. Which is what I thought was the most inconceivable place for him. I swore up and down he’d never end up in NY. Now… well I just might be eating some crow.
P.S. David Lee is reported to do a sign and trade with the Warriors for Anthony Randolph IF Lebron doesn’t go to New York.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
sydneylla
July 8th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Well said!
td4life
July 8th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
“The more money Holt makes, the better it is for us fans in the long run, because the more potential there is for him to spend over the cap during his tenure as owner.”
Yeah, well, the ends don’t justify the means for me, as a fan, or even as a businessman. I’m not participating in a circus just to sell some extra tickets. The franchise/owner isn’t hurting that bad.
Bushka
July 8th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
“I really really don’t like that deal Jim.”
You really don’t think Gortat could be a MAJOR boon to our front line? Duncan - Blair, and Splitter - Gortat. That line could deal with the Lakers, our major competitor in the West.
Dr. Who
July 8th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
“Interesting…. Is there any way that the Knicks would be dumping Lee? That would be a terrible move for the Knicks. They would just gain another 20/10 guy that fits the up tempo system but is injury prone. I certainly dont’ want to see Lee in a Suns uni.”
What would be a terrible move? The Knicks got Amare, now there’s talks that the Knick’s are going to get Randolph, Azubuike, & Turiaf for Lee in a sign & trade. That would be a very good start for the Knicks to show dramatic improvement. They would still need to make another move to shore up their guard rotation, and they’re too top-heavy at the SF spot.
“As far as Shaq we can sum up the whole thread with this: “If he’s willing to take the LLE or vet min (means Tiago is still coming) and check his ego at the door… why not?” ”
True, but that’s a big if, isn’t it? And then you have the risk of distraction. After all, Shaq is a BIG personality.
The rest of your post was pretty much spot on.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
@ Bushka,
I get the vibe that the front office after trading for Jefferson, signing McDyess, drafting Blair, purposely decided no matter what happens, don’t do anything. (Especially since Holt is negotiating the new CBA).
The front office knew with 6 expiring contracts, moving them would be the only way to get better. That if they all 6 left, the Spurs would be over the salary cap and unable to improve the team. Plus the opting out by Jefferson was foreseeable due to new CBA crackdown.
So, yes, they would’ve resigned Ginobili.(Contract is cheap relative to production) Again, if they hadn’t remained inactive, the team salary would only be at salary tax threshold of $70 mil by resigning Ginobili!
Now the team is literally forced to do absolutely nothing because they have no wiggle room except for Parker’s contract.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
But if they were on the hook for Jackson, Jefferson & Gino that is what 30 million for 2 slots? Not including Parker & George Hill?
With Tony, Jack, Jefferson, Manu you are at nearly $50 million.
You need to get minutes for George in there somewhere as well.
That’s without 20 mill for Tim.
You have 5 guys under contract and you are already well past the cap and the luxury line.
That’s too much money for this franchise to support mate.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Shaq has always admired the FT shooting prowess of Tim Duncan.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Bushka
July 8th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
“Jim you are missing one very salient point.
Lebrons also an exhibitionist wanker.”
Got a chuckle on that one.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
To: lvmainman- about Mahinmi, Jones- And who makes the decisions about playing time?- the coach. Mahinmi had 8 games where he logged 10+ min and had somewhat decent stats in most of them. Jones- 3 games, 20 min in 2007-08 for the Spurs. U state: “The Spurs have proven the ability to help players grow and improve.” Until Hill last year, the staff hasn’t done that since TP and Manu. (I thougt Ime Udoka was coming along in ’08-09, but he’s not here.) The FO has been asleep for some time now (since ’06), settling for past-their prime 4s & 5s and but drafting Euro bigs and marinating them 5 years (Scola, Mahinmi, Splitter-he’s on year 3 of this plan). This is a major reason the team is in this predicament today on how to contend with the back-to-back NBA champion.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
@Jim
“What would be a terrible move?”
The terrible move would have been if the sign and trade for Amare was with Lee. It wouldn’t make any sense. They would be getting the same player except Amare is injury prone as opposed to Lee (thus far in his career). Knicks have made some horrible moves in the past so I put it in the possibilities category. Looks like Lee isn’t the S&T guy for Amare since he’s linked to other deals which should make them (Knicks) better. If Lebron lands there Lee will stay… curiouser and curiouser.
“True, but that’s a big if, isn’t it?”
Yep that’s why I wrote… “Likelihood of all of that happening??? Slim and none.” Shaq can’t check his ego at the door. His personality is bigger than life. Last person we had in town with that kind of personality had green hair and fit in like a turd in a punch bowl. Plus General Popovich wasn’t coaching either. Not a good fit those two. Plus wouldn’t’ it be a shame to have a media circus around Shaq when Tim is in the last few years of his career. We’d remember the spectacle that was Shaq’s farewell tour and not the class that was TD in his final years. Perhaps Timmy would prefer it that way (to go off in the sunset un-noticed) but I’d hate for that to happen.
@td4life
I hate to agree with you but I do. Kinda bleak as far as FA’s go… gotta hope Tiago is NBA ready and a real steal. Maybe we can get the better part of a strong trade. Not sure how quick the FO will be to pull the trigger on a trade seeing the debacle that was RJ.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
The only team in the way of San Antonio is LA. Would Shaq help against Bynum? Yes. Will Splitter help. I don’t know. Is Splitter to Spurs a done deal? No.
Do the math.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
why in the world do they need shaq?..spurs needs to get tougher and younger to compensate with the league that is becoming younger and faster..
July 8th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Mason
Nicely said.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
td4life
July 8th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
If you read what I said, I said the list was a list of FA’s that were expected to “move” soon after the LeBron spectacle is unleashed, and that that the Spurs MAY still have some interest in JUST the players with an asterisk next to their name. Ty Thomas DOES NOT have an asterisk next to his name.
“For similar reasons, I think Amundson is as equally out of reach as all the other PFs listed.”
We may not be able to get Amundson, but he’s by no means out of reach at this point. He’s got some good qualities, but he has NO offensive game. He won’t be commanding a very high salary. If it’s above the LLE, it probably won’t be by much (maybe 3 mil. for 4 years should be his ceiling).
“how does Morrow sign for the LLE?”
I didn’t say all these guys could potentially be gotten by just using the LLE. I also said that trades could be involved to acquire any of the players with an asterisk next to their name. And of course, the odds aren’t high that we sign any or most of these guys, but are you saying we might as well pack up now - we’re simply not “players”, at all in this off-season market?
Dr. Who
July 8th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
“I did say yesterday that if his press conference is in his home town he stays, if it’s at a neutral site… then all bets are off.”
Perhaps, but making the announcement at a home site would take some of the drama out, don’t you think? And we all know, LeBron is all about drama!
“P.S. David Lee is reported to do a sign and trade with the Warriors for Anthony Randolph IF Lebron doesn’t go to New York.”
That’s correct, and if I was a betting man, I would NOT bet on NY. Not out of it, but I’d be surprised.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
@DorieStreet
Ime Udoka was coming along in ’08-09, but he’s not here.) The FO has been asleep for some time now (since ’06), settling for past-their prime 4s & 5s and but drafting Euro bigs
I agree with most of the post but Udoka is not a good example to use. He was pretty horrible before the Spurs let him go. He was a D-Leaguer brought in to be a semi-Bowen and it didn’t pan out. The corner threes were not falling and his D was not solid before his exit. He’s in Sacramento with Beno and doing a whole lot of nothing there. You are correct that we haven’t developed any talent and don’t get me started on the fossil and man love that existed between Pop and Finley (how he got minutes I never knew)… But we do need to give the FO some credit. Keep in mind how good we’ve had it year after year. It’s hard to develop talent when you keep getting draft picks way outside of the lottery since the season was a championship one or close to it. Searching in Europe is a good plan when you are drafting in the late 1st and second rounds in consecutive drafts. How strong would the Lakers have been without the Gasol trade? Odom and Kobe were on a boat to nowhere before the trade. It’s very difficult for a small market team to stay competitive with such late draft picks. Hill has emerged as a player worth developing and credit goes to the FO for the faith in Blair as well who shows promise. It’s a tall order to find d-leaguers aka Udoka/Devin Brown and develop them into Manu or TP. I think it’s a case of doing the best with what they had.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
With NJ throwing money at the streaky and unfocused Travis Outlaw, they just took themselves out of the “Richard Jefferson Sweepstakes”.
The good news/bad news is that almost every team in the league is deep at SF. If LBJ goes to Mia, Wright is expendable. Hopefully Cleveland doesn’t S&T for him. If LBJ doesn’t go to South Beach, Miami is maybe the only team that’s targeting RJ.
Wright may be attainable by SA, and we could offer him the starter’s job. Is he worth it? I don’t know. But I think we can make a better pitch than the Clippers, Cavs, and Wizards. Though he might be swayed by the PG talents of Jazz, Suns, & Hornets.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
@ Bushka,
Exactly, the Spurs ARE @ the salary cap without Jefferson now, without Bonner/Mason or Jackson! But, adding Jackson, Splitter, Mahinmi, Jones would have left the team @ the salary cap tax threshold of $70 million.
If Jefferson was on the team for the $15 million, the Spurs would pay the tax only for him!!!! If he’d opted out, which he did, the Spurs would be exempt from the tax and have a much improved team!
The team if the Spurs front office were on their game, the team would be the following:
PG – Parker, Hill
SG – Jackson, Ginobili, Anderson
SF – Jones, Gee, Hairston
PF – Duncan, Blair
C – Splitter?, McDyess, Mahinmi
Team Salary?
Assuming the full MLE for Splitter, $70 mil – right @ the salary cap penalty threshold
Expensive(over $8 mil per) – Parker, Jackson, Ginobili, Duncan
Mid($3-$7 mil per) – Splitter, McDyess
Cheap(under $2 mil per) – Anderson, Blair, Jones, Gee, Hairston, Mahinmi, Hill
Old(27 & up) – Parker, Jackson, Ginobili, McDyess, Duncan
Young(26 & under) – Anderson, Blair, Hill, Splitter, Jones, Gee, Hairston, Mahinmi
That team would be able to compete for a championship, unlike now.
Bigs - for Lakers - Splitter, Duncan, Mahinmi, McDyess, Blair
3 headed matchup for Kobe - Jackson, Ginobili, Jones
July 8th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
@Mason
The only team in the way of San Antonio is LA. Would Shaq help against Bynum? Yes. Will Splitter help. I don’t know. Is Splitter to Spurs a done deal? No.
Do the math.
Really? So you’d give the MLE to Shaq over Tiago? Shaq was the most dominant big man of his era and was lazy and didn’t want to work. Now he’s 50 cheesburgers heavier and still lazy. Is he big? Yep… would he love to put the screws to LA and Kobe? Yep. But you seriously think he’d come to SA, check his ego at the door and listen to Pop rip him apart in practice like he does the rest of his stars for missing their defensive rotations? That wouldn’t last long. It could be ugly in SA if he were here. The only way I’d even entertain the offer is if Tiago was a done deal. Even with Tiago here the risk with Shaq would be huge. He worked out awesome in Phoenix when he was past his prime and went out and got Lebron a championshi…. oh wait no he didn’t. He couldn’t handle Noah in the playoffs. Could he pound on Gasol and Bynum for a while, sure. But would it really be worth it to have a media circus in this town and another aging vet who was slow of defensive rotations? He’d have to come for very very little money and agree to “play nice.” Tall order for Shaq.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Dark horse pick for where LeBron ends up:
CHICAGO
If he actually wants to win a title quickly & be the main MAN, that’s where he goes. Then he apologizes profusely to the fans of Cleveland, and makes a pledge to erect a statue of himself at the city square.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
td4life
July 8th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
“The good news/bad news is that almost every team in the league is deep at SF.”
Not the Clippers, Heat or Magic.
July 8th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
“He’d have to come for very very little money and agree to “play nice.” Tall order for Shaq.”
Agreed. The odds are not good that he would do what is necessary.
The only reason it might be worth it is because of Kobe. Kobe has five rings and Shaq might get motivated out of sheer rage. I know it sounds a bit far fetched but Shaq could get really serious about winning just to stick it to Phil, Kobe and Buss.
Otherwise, I’m sure he was thinking that TD and himself were the greatest big men of the decade. What fun it would be to play with him before retirement. Not good.
If Shaq is serious about getting thumb rings for himself, TD and screwing LA in the process than he will sign for the vets minimum. He should have more than enough money.
July 8th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
Jim,
First you say, “the ruse is just about over:
LeBRON STAYS IN CLEVELAND!” Then you later post, “CHICAGO”
Who the heck knows what he’s decided! All season long I’ve been of the very very few saying that he stays at home. But after the postseason they’ve had and the moves by other teams, and the fact that Bosh (and perhaps Boozer) spurned Cleveland outright, I am found myself in the minority again, with people crawling out of the woodwork to say he stays in Cleveland, just as I have changed my mind and said he leaves.
Miami 44%
Chicago 43%
New York 10%
Cleveland 3%
“are you saying we might as well pack up now – we’re simply not “players”, at all in this off-season market?”
Yes. To the extend that it changes our playoff outlook next spring, yes, that is what I have been saying for awhile. The caveat is if we are outbid on RJ and pull off a S&T, which I still don’t see putting us over. I don’t see upgrades over McD and TP, and I don’t see swapping either of them making any us better next year.
“Not the Clippers, Heat or Magic.”
I addressed the Heat and Clips in my post, saying that we can offer Wright a better situation as a starter (if Heat have either LBJ or RJ starting). But you are right, I overlooked Orlando.
July 8th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
ATTN QUINCYSCOTT , keep DREAMING your crappy lil spurs team will never get your filthy hands on KOBE !!! Keep dreaming !! Spurs dethrone Lakers LMAO !!
July 8th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
LeBron to Miami
What a FAG FAG FAG FAG FAG FAG FAG FAG
Did Jordan ever consider teaming up with Barkley, Ewing, Malone or Thomas? HELL NO.
Sellout wussy thy name is lebron.
July 8th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
He’s never going to win a championship. Simmons was right when he said LeBron was more Dr. J and less Jordan.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
Well, td4life, looks like you called it.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
Sadly, I think this makes the Heat prohibitive favorites going forward. If D-Wade can stay healthy through the playoffs that is.
There’s a lot of talk about how the Heat spent all their money on three guys and the rest of the team they’ll be able to put together won’t be enough. That they’ll be a 50 win team. No way.
First off, we’re talking about the best player, stat wise, since MJ in Lebron and one of the current best in D-Wade. Then you add a great big in Bosh and you have far and away the best core in the league. Sure they’ll detract from each other somewhat. They all can’t grab every rebound and score every point, but they will still all put up great numbers.
The thing is, you don’t have to surround these guys with great players. You need tough rebounding defending types. 3 point shooting would be nice too, but Wade and Lebron have proven they can create without it. Other teams need better role players because (like the Spurs) because their stars aren’t nearly as good.
Also, I bet they end up with some good deals because players won’t to join these 3 guys on the court so the cap situation is probably a little better than it looks.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
just an fyi.. projectspurs.com is a 10X better spurs blog out of all the spurs blogs. They have soooo many more spurs related posts, at a much quicker rate.. just some food for thought
July 8th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
mac,
now watch and see my other predictions come true… among them, that Amare’s Knicks do not win ANY championships. All those years of ESPN saying Lebron and Bosh were going to New York. New York media believes their own reflections are puppet masters and prophets. I hope Dolan and company trade D Lee for Monta Ellis, just to show how stupid they really are. But then again, at least they will sell some tickets and (sort of ) put the Isiah era behind them.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
It will be VERY annoying if Mahinmi thrives in Miami.
I expect Udoka and Tolliver to play in Miami as well.
Oberto, too.
Possibly even Bogans, and maybe even Devin Brown has an outside chance.
Oh, and that kid Bobby Brown. (I know his agent is a Spurs’ fan who posts here on 48MoH, so that it’ll piss him off… then again, if he’s B Brown’s agent, he’ll be getting paid and happy.)
July 8th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Splitter options are the same as richard jefferson we can sign him for whatever, we don’t have to give him the mle. I see him getting 4or5 the 1st year and more in the years to come. Shaq can get the mle. Then the spurs will have 3 seven footers to contend with the lakers.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
If you asked me the Cleveland Cavs had it coming. They traded Andre Miller for Darius Miles as soon as they won the LeBron lottery. Then they handled the Carlos Boozer contract as rank amateurs. If they hadn’t done those two things this would never have happened.
No, Jordon didn’t leave the Bulls, but he had a legitimate sidekick, for one. Also, it was a different time. The ’08 Celtics laid the precedent for this. Nobody was crucifying Clyde Drexler. Or Bosh, for that matter, for leaving a crappy organization. Shaq left Orlando. Barkley left. Nash and Nowitzki have showed too much loyalty. Houston threw Hakeem under the bus, and the Spurs almost didn’t resign David Robinson in favor of Chris Webber, except for his injury history. Tim Duncan was soooo close to joining Hill and T-Mac in Orlando. Soooo close.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
The amount of players who remain true to a lousy team are very few indeed. I can’t really blame LeBron but I hoped for loyalty, especially because Cleveland needed him to succeed. But who wants that pressure anyways? I’ll be upset unless it’s Miami beating the Lakers in the Finals.
So let’s put together a Spurs team that will beat both!
GO SPURS GO!!!!
July 8th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
3 seven footers!!!!
July 8th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
Shaq even at the advance age of 38 is a space eater. If he can report in decent shape, play a few minutes ala Kevin Willis, it would be a welcome addition. The Lakers’s twin towers want no part of Shaquille. Look at the games where Shaq played against them and they are nowhere nearly as effective. They back down, specially Gasol,because of Shaq’s physicality. With the departure of Stoudemire the Spurs move up by default. The only real concern is the Lakers front line size and Shaq would be a plus against it. It all depends on his condition and willingness to do the little things like boxing out, occasional shot blocking, rebounding and passing.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
So whose left after all this mess? Wade, James and Bosh in Miami. J. O’Neal to Boston, Outlaw to the Nets, Lee to GS, Boozer to Chicago, Duhon to Magic…
I’m sure the list goes on, I’m just trying to sort out who we could possibly make trades with for S&T (if we could still pull one off that is).
Also, I know NY is going to come fast and furious after Tony now… this is gonna get crazy here in about a day or two.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
The Celts did make the precedent with signing 2 FA “stars” to go with their best player. James is supposed to be the king, the best, the top dog.
He folded in game 6 in the East semi’s.
He is now leaving his hometown team. He is joining a team that already has an established star and leader.
In my wildest nightmares, Jordan would not have done that. I know there can be only one Jordan. James is supposed to be the chosen one, the future of the NBA. There is no way “the best player in the NBA” should/would do what James just did.
I actually have respect for Kobe when I think about queen james.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
Let’s not be to hard on James. He’s a 25 year old who decided to move to a fun town and to a great job and be with a couple of good friends. He’s not Cleveland’s saviour and he doesn’t have a MJ mindset which honestly is better for him even if it’s worse for basketball.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
@ td4life,
I agree Mahinmi thriving in Miami will be annoying!
The Heat will add Jason Williams as a point guard, since Chris Duhon took his place with the Magic.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
/Threadjack (do we do that here?)
David Lee will be traded to the Warriors for Randolph, Turiaf, and Azubuike.
Think this move was done to acquire some pieces to trade for Parker?
/End Threadjack
July 8th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
I’m amazed at Lebron’s decision. He and Wade do not compliment each other they duplicate each others skills. Bosh is good but I never see him as being a dominant low post player. If Lebron was going to leave Cleveland then the Bulls would have made more sense especially after adding Boozer. With Boozer and Noah he would have had two guys who are capable of doing the dirty work of defending and rebounding without demanding the ball. In addition he would benefit from playing with an all-star caliber point guard who can break down a defense and create a lot of open shots.
I think Wade, James and Bosh bought into all the hype and wrongly believe they are good enough to carry a bunch of scrubs. Kobe and Gasol have had a pretty decent supporting cast the last few years and it’s still been a struggle for them to win championships with the exception of 2009.
It was interesting how all the reporters and couple of former players were ready to anoint the Heat as the best team in the East but Van Gundy the only guy on BSPN tonight who I think can be objective and has some credibility sounded skeptical that it will work.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
ugh, shaq. i don’t hate him, but i sure don’t love him either. i think it’s a fail without splitter.
good riddance to the lebron hype. i hope miami fills its roster with scrubs and gets taken down in the finals time after time. t’would serve them right. again, i want to see if a suit could be brought for collusion. just saying.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
@Lenneezz
“He folded in game 6 in the East semi’s. ”
27 pts., 19 Rebs., 10 assists- Yeah he really folded!
July 8th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
I have been thinking about this, this offseason it would be a very good pickup but not at the cost of Splitter. I always like Duncan playing with an actual center. I will really like it if we can have Splitter and Shaq and have a big rotation of Duncan, Splitter, McD, Blair and Shaq. This would give the spurs a very good big rotation that is very versatile. Shaq would represent the physical beefy center and Splitter more the guy with the quickness and length to be able to guard in the pick and roll. I am for this as long as it does not cost Splitter.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
@lvmainman
good stuff i get where you are coming from now.
At the time I don’t think it made as much sense. But right now yeah it’d be a nice spot to be in, obviously we didn’t see (hardly anyone did) R.J opting out.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
wait im confused did Ian Mahinmi go to Miami?
July 8th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
Shaq made $21 mil last season he ain’t coming for anything less than the MLE and that would preclude the Spurs from signing Splitter.
I for one don’t see Shaq signing with the Spurs and I don’t think the Spurs would be interested even it was only for the veteran’s minimum which Shaq would never play for, he’s simply throwing out junk to drive up his price from the likes of ATL and Boston.
So I believe any talk about adding Splitter and Shaq is pointless it would be one or the other and most likely they wouldn’t sign Shaq even if Splitter refuses to sign.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Shaq is a cool guy, I like him over Kobi. But Pop, please understand do not let other teams take Raja Bell, we need Bell for long range shooting and Defending. So without forgetting Raja Bell and if we add Shaq thats nice.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Lenneezz,
you lost me with that respect for Kobe thing.
Kobe had 40 times better management in his organization. He did his prima donna act to drive Phil Jackson, O’Neal, and Malone out of town after he himself underperformed in the Finals versus Detroit, where Shaq played quite well. Then he threatens to go to the Clips where he was demanding they play some games in Anaheim so he has a shorter commute, what a doosh. So Buss accommodates him completely, and gives him his max contract and they end up in the lottery. How often do Conference champs follow that up with a trip to the Lottery? Care to answer that one, Mr. Bryant aka “the greatest of all time”? After 2 more years of 1st round defeats to D’Antoni and Nash, he whines some more and threatens to leave again.
And would have! If not for the miraculous gift of Pau Gasol, who has taken the Lakers to the Finals ever since he arrived mid-season.
MVP Garnett turned his back on a crap team. Robinson had to fly out and plead Timmy to stay only one year AFTER they’d already won a title… just imagine if they hadn’t won in ’99. Terrible for us.
Lebron begged Bosh to come to Cleveland and was denied… the writing was on the wall, no sidekick was ever gonna come to Cleveland. Garnett didn’t want to go to LA to play with the world’s most arrogant teammate, and neither did Ray Allen. Because of Bryant, not because of LA. All accounts and evidence with the Cavs, and his Team USA pals, are that LBJ is a great guy and inspiring teammate. Kobe was bailed out by Kupchak and West. Lebron would be a “hero” if he was as lucky to get the talent around him that Bryant had. Cleveland is what it is, it has it’s own dharma or something. Lebron was never gonna change that. Chicago is a different city, and it always was, and always will be. Jordon was lucky he landed there and had the situation he had. Luck is always involved. My dad, a former Division 1 QB, winning HS football coach, and lifelong die-hard Cowboys fan saying each and every of Lebron’s 7 year career, “That team and that city will NEVER win an NBA championship. Never. NO WAY.” He was always so adamant about it, and he woulddn’t bother to explain. I always thought it was a strange position, and kind of silly, but maybe he’s spot on.
I’m not even a Lebron fan.
Think Bosh is a bit over-rated (but now respect his decision to be the 3rd option, which speaks to his awareness of his limitations).
I do like Wade, though.
But to say that Bron is a doosh that makes Kobe respectable? What crack are you smokin!
July 8th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
bduran
July 8th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
Sadly, I think this makes the Heat prohibitive favorites going forward. If D-Wade can stay healthy through the playoffs that is.
I disagree. In the final analysis, this is a TEAM game, so unless the HUGE three are willing to each play for about 10-12 million, the HEAT have a MASSIVE challenge on their hands to assemble (afford) a TEAM of 13 players that are good enough as a group to defeat the best teams around the NBA. Whatever Miami decides to do about filling out a roster with TEN more players for a total of about 13 million, I’ll take the Lakers against the Heat in 2011 (that’s if the Heat get past Orlando & Boston), assuming that all key players on both teams stay healthy most of the year.
“First off, we’re talking about the best player, stat wise, since MJ in Lebron and one of the current best in D-Wade.”
Stats don’t win championships.
“They all can’t grab every rebound and score every point, but they will still all put up great numbers.”
Numbers won’t get it done, and that’s just for THREE players that you’re talking about; proper production & teamwork from at least eight or nine players is critical to winning championships.
“….3 point shooting would be nice too….”
Unfortunately for the Heat, REAL, clutch 3-point shooters don’t come cheap. Not by a long shot in today’s market. And the lure of playing with the HUGE three will have only a minor effect on bringing in “useful” but cheap players. The great majority of good players are simply not going to play for cheap.
Finally, I’m NOT suggesting that the Heat won’t be a better TEAM than last year. They almost assuredly will. But win a championship, in their first year, with their given payroll predicament? Unlikely. In fact, as things stand right now, I’d still only give them about a one in five chance of winning one or more titles in the next 4 years. And that’s if they have that something special underneath (“true grit”), which I don’t really see. Sure, a strong & talented CORE is great, but not at the expense of the rest of the team.
Wade had the chance of being near his kids & winning a title in Chicago (a very talented team). Lebron had a chance of doing something really special by persevering, and having a legitimate chance of lifting the “sports ghosts” out of an entire city, to the glee of true fans from Cleveland that are old enough to be his great grandfather. And Bosh may have had the opportunity to come to a franchise that has always been all about winning, having strong character, and is unafraid of the work it requires to reach the pinnacle: the San Antonio Spurs; and with the opportunity to play with the great Tim Duncan, winning a title before he TD leaves, while leading the Spurs into a new era of greatness. But the three buddies didn’t make such choices. No, they wanted their selfish & personal desires consummated now, and their egos are big enough to think that it only takes three stars to give prosperous life to an entire planet. Let’s see if we can satisfy our egos, “the easy way”, as they nod in agreement.
Indeed, there’s something a bit unnerving about the whole thing, something that suggests that these guys don’t really have the “character” to do what it takes to win a championship. Their antics throughout all of this congers the eerie specter of three school-age kids in a bicycle shop all wanting to buy three shiny sting ray bikes so that they can take this long awaited bike ride together to a special river with an amazing waterfall that they have all wanted to visit for so long. But instead of each of them saving up for it by working the lemonade stand all summer out in the hot sun with some more “nerdy” boys from their own separate neighborhoods, they decide that they deserve that ride together, NOW, and so they hatch a plan to steal the bikes. They’re not really concerned about what they leave in their wake; each of them believes that they deserve those bikes NOW, and they were bound & determined to make it happen, together.
As you might imagine though, their “bike trips” never did turn out as favorably as they had expected. And there were consequences. Indeed, there’s no “easy” route to “true” greatness, and personal fulfillment. For example, in my opinion it is very unlikely that Michael Jordan would have agreed to steal a bike so that he could join his friends on a cool trip of supposed glory. He would have taken it as a challenge to work that lemonade stand, and to learn how to help his more “nerdy” neighbors become better lemonade “salesmen”. He would have taken the time to save his money to buy that bike. And he would have eventually had six wonderful and glorious rides ahead of him, that spanned six amazing summers. And he would have found some great new friends to go along for the ride.
That is ultimately the road that gets one close to greatness. It is a road where the means justifies the ends, not the other way around. Obviously, the HUGE three don’t see it that way.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
idahospur
July 8th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
“The amount of players who remain true to a lousy team are very few indeed.”
Surely you aren’t referring to the Cavs of the past few years. They won 60+ games in the past two seasons and got to the finals four years ago. Lebron wanted Shaq. They got him Shaq. Lebron wanted Antawn. They got him Antawn. Lebron wanted a BJ so they did that. They’ve been smooching his ringless arse for the past 7 years. As much as some love to bitch that Lebron had no help, it is simply not true. Mo Williams, Jamison, Shaq, and Varejao are all good players. For those that watched Lebrons last playoff games, it became evident that he quit.
este
July 8th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
“If Lebron was going to leave Cleveland then the Bulls would have made more sense especially after adding Boozer.”
I agree 100% with your post. So they now have 3 great players and a bench full of clowns. How are they going to win against a team like Boston who has 4 big players and a decent supporting cast. How will Orlando’s depth wear on them in a 7 game series. What about a team like the Bulls who have Rose, Boozer, Deng, and Noah plus a decent supporting cast?
None of these guys have proven themselves to be able to single handedly will a team to a championship. With this in mind, one thing that I haven’t seen ANYBODY mention is the fact that all three will have to play heavy minutes ALL season long if their little team of 3 is to win. How will this affect them in the playoffs when they’ve all had to play 42 min/game in the regular season?
I remember watching the 2004 lakers with Shaq, Kobe, Payton, and Malone. Now granted, 2 players were well past their prime, but that little experiment of an All Star team failed. There were too many egos in the locker room and not enough shots to go around on the court. Will this team be much the same? I hear some say Lebron can swallow his ego and sacrifice for the good of the team. Have these people listened to Lebron talk!? He is one of the most egotistical, narcissistic, and self deluded players I’ve ever heard (and I have been a Lebron fan in the past). I won’t go on with Wade and Bosh, but this whole experiment will be very interesting to say the least…
July 8th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
[...] All in all, BiE reckons the Lakers need to fear a certain Texas-based team leagues more than their would-be dethroners on the East Coast, particularly if ol’ Mr. Splitter comes aboard but not if they land (giggle) Shaq… [...]
July 8th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
“I got one more than Shaq.” - Kobe Bryant, circa 3 weeks ago.
Get Splitter and GET SHAQ!! Big if, but IF he’s motivated, we can use him. Fo sho!
July 8th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
“He folded in game 6 in the East semi’s. ”
27 pts., 19 Rebs., 10 assists- Yeah he really folde
Ahh Este, obviously it was a typo and I meant game 5.
Game 6 letdown was last year in east finals.
Don’t get too excited now.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:22 pm
@este
“he’s simply throwing out junk to drive up his price from the likes of ATL and Boston”
The Celtics stated they have zero interest in Shaq and made the point even clearer when they signed the other O’Neal. Duh
July 8th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
@ este
actually turning the ball over 6 times in the last two minutes and having 9 turnovers in game 6 is kinda the definition of “folding” you played a great game and shot 8-21 to get your stats but when it mattered you made bad decisions. oh and game 5 he went 3-14 and had 6 to’s so yeah he quit.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
my friend is from elyria ohio and his heart was broke when LBJ quit last year.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
david lee gets 13.3 a year from GS sounds like to much to me.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
“Cleveland is what it is, it has it’s own dharma or something. Lebron was never gonna change that. Chicago is a different city, and it always was, and always will be. Jordon was lucky he landed there and had the situation he had. Luck is always involved.”
Jordan was lucky to land in Chicago?????What crack are YOU smoking. Chicago basketball was horrible before MJ landed. The star was Orlando Woolridge. Jordan has given many interviews stating that the only thing he learned about winning from Woolridge was TO DO THE OPPOSITE. MJ had no support for quite a while. Pete Meyers, Dave Corzine and Brad Sellers ring a bell? In 87, Pippen and Grant came on board and promptly SUCKED. They were horrible as rookies.
Jordan carried the Bulls until their 3rd year. It wasn’t until 1989-90 season did Cartwright, Pippen and Grant made significant contributions. LBJ had it better than Jordan. He had an owner that was more than willing to spend money and try to bring in talent. Unlike Jordan, who had Jerry Reinsdorf. So please, don’t talk about chit you obviously don’t know about.
I made the statement that Kobe looked good compared to Lebron because I think tonight Lebron can’t sink any lower. At 25, he has left a top 5-6 team to partner up with 2 other all stars. He showed zero character tonight. He left his hometown organization that is starved for a championship. He feels no responsibility for his collapse vs the Celtics. A championship for the Cavs would mean infinite more than a championship in Miami. His legacy is tarnished horribly. He is not the king or the chosen one.
I know how horrible Kobe is. That is why I used him as a really bad benchmark. DUH
July 8th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
td4life
July 8th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
“I expect Udoka and Tolliver to play in Miami as well.
Oberto, too.
Possibly even Bogans, and maybe even Devin Brown has an outside chance.”
The Heat ain’t gonna win no title with those players.
idahospur
July 8th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
“The amount of players who remain true to a lousy team are very few indeed. I can’t really blame LeBron but I hoped for loyalty, especially because Cleveland needed him to succeed.”
A “lousy team?” A TEAM that won 127 games in just the last 2 seasons?! And please, don’t tell me that it was just LeBron. Don’t even attempt to validate his over-sized ego. What a pathetic display LeBron put on. Maybe worse than his “tanking” in the playoffs. This guy is afraid of failure. The cancer is gone in Cleveland. Hurray! They’ll lose more games next year, but they’ll be better off in the long run without that prima donna putting the ultimate lid on the franchise.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:52 pm
I hate thinking this and don’t completely believe it yet, but with this new “big 3″ landing in Miami and with all the other power teams out there , maybe the spurs should be looking for more long term talent now instead of immediate pieces. Not saying blow up the team , but maybe trade for a little more youth and see if they can make the grade quickly whilst we still have 2 or 3 Hof ers on the team to guide them. Maybe we should trade Tony now….but no way ny is gonna nett us the right amount of value
July 8th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
If you ignore the outside elements (like personality and the “coin” he would generate) and look at it in how it effects the way the Spurs actually play basketball - it is without a doubt, a horrible idea. Our biggest problem last year was pick and roll defence, with O’Neal it would only get worse. If Splitter was already a Spur, it would be worth considering, as he’s not its isn’t worth considering.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
Our biggest problem last year was pick and roll defence, with O’Neal it would only get worse
I agree in a particular way
The pick & roll didnt kill the spurs agains phoenix. Actually The bench of the phoenix kill the spurs
First Sign Splitter For a good salarie
Then look for shaq for the minimum salarie. The idea of shaq is to stop Howard and Bynum
July 9th, 2010 at 12:01 am
Just Think
Who is the only player that can dunk on D. Howard? Shaq
Who is the only player with Hi IQ that can stop Bynum? Shaq
Sign Splitter First because he is the future
Then look for shaq
July 9th, 2010 at 12:05 am
Lenneezz
July 8th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
Excellent post!
este
July 8th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
“I’m amazed at Lebron’s decision. He and Wade do not compliment each other they duplicate each others skills.”
Exactly! Well put.
“If Lebron was going to leave Cleveland then the Bulls would have made more sense especially after adding Boozer.”
IF LeBron truly wants to win, you’re exactly right. If LeBron’s not going to stay loyal & accept the challenge to persevere in Cleveland, how can he not want to play as the SG in this lineup:
Rose
James
Deng
Boozer
Noah
How, I ask you? Plus, they have Gibson as well, and would still have about 8 mil. in cap space to fill out their roster with a couple decent role players & and a few vet minimum players.
este
July 8th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
@Lenneezz
“He folded in game 6 in the East semi’s. ”
“27 pts., 19 Rebs., 10 assists- Yeah he really folded!”
Yeah, but you have to remember, he almost had a quadruple double that game — NINE turnovers! That is completely unacceptable from a superstar player in a big game. Having an off shooting night would be one thing, but having that many turnovers is ridiculous. It was like watching the Keystone Cops with the ball. That’s got to be the worst triple double that I’ve ever scene. LeBron was clearly part of what blew that game. And I don’t care about his stat line. He sucked, they sucked, and they lost!
Hobson13
July 8th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
idahospur
July 8th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
“The amount of players who remain true to a lousy team are very few indeed.”
“Surely you aren’t referring to the Cavs of the past few years. They won 60+ games in the past two seasons and got to the finals four years ago. Lebron wanted Shaq. They got him Shaq. Lebron wanted Antawn. They got him Antawn. Lebron wanted a BJ so they did that. They’ve been smooching his ringless arse for the past 7 years. As much as some love to bitch that Lebron had no help, it is simply not true. Mo Williams, Jamison, Shaq, and Varejao are all good players. For those that watched Lebrons last playoff games, it became evident that he quit.”
Couldn’t agree more, Hobson. Way to tell it like it is!
#
bigtee34
July 8th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
“@ este
actually turning the ball over 6 times in the last two minutes and having 9 turnovers in game 6 is kinda the definition of “folding” you played a great game and shot 8-21 to get your stats but when it mattered you made bad decisions. oh and game 5 he went 3-14 and had 6 to’s so yeah he quit.”
Exactly, bigtree!
Lenneezz
July 8th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
You have the LeBron issued pegged. Nice job.
July 9th, 2010 at 12:57 am
Llennezz,
I only smoke the best crack.
And when I’m loaded I think about what a fun city Chicago is, and how they have created not just winning teams, but dominant and exciting teams in many sports and in many decades. Even when I am really tweaked out of my mind I still think how truly shitty the Browns were last year, and what a bum stroke of luck Colt McCoy got, and I start to wonder if this good crack high must be some kinda crystal meth. Cleveland’ll do that to a high.
Hey, maybe things will turn around for the “Mistake by the Lake” and Dan Gilbert is right, that Bron’s taking the Cleveland Curse with him. That’d be friggin’ great.
I ain’t no Lebron fan, and will never root for any Heat team. Now these boys get to figure out if it’s just really fun to play together, or what it means to pound that rock and discover something within themselves as yet undeveloped. Still a steep, indomitable mountain to climb to become a champion, except now they have a fighting chance, and Pat Riley on their side. I root against them, for sure. But nobody is a bigger jerk than Bryant. If LBJ is Mussolini, KB is the Hitler. Do I respect Hitler more? No and never. And I’d know that even if I were sober.
He ain’t the first player to leave a playoff team, so what. He ain’t no Manu. Praise Manu, he’s a Jedi, man. That makes him a saint and a hero. I’m just glad David persuaded Timmy to stick around.
July 9th, 2010 at 1:30 am
About the Heat, let’s all remember that James, Wade, and Bosh all signed up for five years together, not just one. The first year might have its problems, but by adding players each year through things like the LLE and MLE (which are supplemented through increased marketability, Florida’s lack of an income tax, South Beach, and Miami’s excellent organization) they could be really tough. And, by the way, did you notice some of those players they picked up in the draft? Varnado and Pittman could be really tough. (Surrounding Pittman with those three, coached by Spoelstra, and managed by Riley, really maximizes the chance that he’ll tap some of that considerable talent.) Varnado in particular would pair nicely with Bosh.
Additionally, they’ll have Chalmers at PG. He’s not great but he’s not bad, especially as a complementary player. And I’m certain they’ll re-sign Haslem, who loves playing for the Heat. Now there’s a lot of talk that Miller will join them. Suddenly, that’s a pretty good lineup. All they need is a couple of muscular big men who don’t need the ball and a spare shooter interested in a ring. They don’t have much to offer in the way of salary, but there are plenty of guys who fit those descriptions who would do it for a shot at a championship and a slice of the Holy Trinity’s marketing pie. Wouldn’t you?
About the Spurs, I’m dubious about the whole Shaq thing. But I actually think they’re still in pretty good shape to bring back Jefferson, especially now that NJ, Miami, and Minnesota are out of the SF market. It’s difficult to see RJ leaving the Spurs for the Clippers or the Knicks at this stage. So regardless of what happens in Miami, I still basically see the Spurs as a similar team to last year, with Bonner and Jefferson at lower cost, minus Bogans, Mason, and Mahinmi, plus Splitter and Anderson. If they can find a cheap, serviceable PF/C to play some defense and a wing player to play some defense and hit a couple of shots, they could be very good. If not, though, they’ll simply be good. Considering they’re trying to do the impossible-rebuilding while contending-that’s not bad.
July 9th, 2010 at 1:56 am
“If LeBron’s not going to stay loyal & accept the challenge to persevere in Cleveland, how can he not want to play as the SG in this lineup:
Rose
James
Deng
Boozer
Noah”
Yep, this decision by LeBron shows he’ll make a typical nba-star-turned-GM someday.
But what if Wade and Lebron do play well off each other, now that they each have someone to pass to, and feed them in the lane? Maybe they’ll even groom some young talents into solid role players, as they have promised? Not by year one, but then again, I’m not necessarily thinking the Bulls are ever going to dominate the East really.
But the whole “loyalty” backlash thing has been blown out of proportion.
J Johnson is wanker for robbing his team and calling it loyalty, when we all know better.
Nash and Nowitzki are honorable fools for taking less money to play for chaotic organizations, because it means more.
Nobody faults Bosh for leaving his team. Or for not going to Cleveland.
Dwayne Wade? Did he just pull off a Paul Pierce, or did he blackmail his F.O. a la Kobe Bryant?
This Top Trio of guys are smarter than Carmelo, they negotiated opt-out clauses, whereas KG, Gary The Glove, Bryant and countless others just whined and asked for or demanded to be traded throughout the actual damn season.
If Lebron just disqualified himself from being the best in the game, as some posters argue. And Chris Paul is disqualified because his franchise can’t build a team properly, then I guess it’s down to Kevin Durant. That guy dominates the ball, but is one heck of nice kid, committed team leader, and has the right GM hooking him up. Too bad for Super Sonics fans.
July 9th, 2010 at 1:57 am
LeBron is a dick and this move simply made Kobe look like MJ#2.
Here are things Lebron didnt think about when making his decision.
1. If Titles make you the player then WADE will always be better than Lebron. So really LeBron can never be “the best.”
2. If/when Kobe beats Miami in the finals it will lock him up as GOAT.
3. Chicago was the place to go to “win multiples.”
I find Lebron to be a huge piece of shit. He shows no loyalty or respect for himself. Hes a cry-baby and a quitter. There could have been a totally different way to go about this situation, but he had to parade it around and rub it in everyones face.
Its too bad he has to be such a pussy. I was almost rooting for him to be “the best.”
July 9th, 2010 at 2:02 am
Oh, and about LeBron and Wade duplicating each other’s skills-yes, of course. That’s why it’s a potential NIGHTMARE.
Let’s all remember, the only way NBA teams could stop Wade was by swarming him and leaving the likes of Beasley or Haslem to make them pay. Even so, Miami still won more than they lost. But now Wade is the number two option! And Bosh is number three! The fact that they duplicate each other’s skills-when the skills in question are those needed to shred any NBA defensive scheme-is exactly the problem.
How the hell are you going to stop them now? Seriously. Explain to me exactly how to stop LeBron James when he has the ball, with Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade to pass it to? (Not to mention Mike Miller spotting up in the corner for a three?) How are you going to stop a Wade/Bosh pick and roll, with LeBron James as the weak-side option? Who’s going to guard Chris Bosh? Your PF? Too slow. Your SF? He already needs help with James. Do you close out with your PF and rotate your C? Oops, you just left two of the five best players in the world single covered. Like I said, this could be a NIGHTMARE.
The problem for Miami is going to be on the defensive end. They are going to have a very hard time handling players like Howard, Duncan, Yao, Bogut, and Garnett. And then there’s that front line in LA (along with Bryant and Artest, who are probably already relishing the chance to guard Wade and James). That’s why Miami is probably going to have some defensive struggles, especially in slower games. But they’ll adjust. Spoelstra’s very smart.
And also… Pat Riley has been planning for something like this for, literally, decades. Remember who his point guard in LA was? Riley hasn’t been been able to find a strong, quick 6’8″ ball handler since Magic retired. Until now. And this guy knows exactly what to do with one. Late in Magic’s days in LA, Riley talked about his dream of fielding a team of five 6’8″ players, who could all shoot, dribble, pass, rebound, and defend. He got pretty close with Magic (6’8″), Byron Scott (6’5″), Michael Cooper (6’6″), James Worthy (6’9″), A.C. Green (6’9″), and Mychal Thompson (6’10″) as his main guys. They were all long, quick, versatile, strong enough to hold their own, and each capable of playing at least two positions (or five, in Magic’s case). In many ways, Chicago’s best teams (with Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc, and Rodman) were similar, with a more emphasis on quickness and less on muscle. Wade, of course, isn’t quite as tall as the LA or Chicago wing players. But his wingspan, strength, and athleticism allow him to play more like a 6’6″ player. (Remember how many blocked shots and rebounds he gets?) With Wade, James, Bosh, Miller, and Haslem, Miami already has the basic ingredients for a Riley-style dream team. If Varnado pans out, that’s another one. Personally, I think they’re going to be very, very good, especially after a year or two.
July 9th, 2010 at 2:29 am
I agree with you Tim about the duplication thing. A physical defensive team would beat these guys though. None of them like contact and play like girls for the most part. Get some mean dudes, I know its almost impossible in this day and age with the queens that are produced on the court, and they fold.
Lebron is a choke artist, and Bosh has done nothing. These girls just want the attention
July 9th, 2010 at 2:45 am
TradeTP,
Point taken. You have to admit, though, that Wade likes contact.
It’s revealing that the other two went to HIS team. Wade will be the real leader of the Heat.
July 9th, 2010 at 3:07 am
“But the whole “loyalty” backlash thing has been blown out of proportion.”
Nah, it’s simple really.
A marriage made in heaven turns
into a divorce made in hell.
It was a dream fit. High school hero gets drafted #1 by his local NBA team. Ced team is starved for a championship. Finals appearance, 66 wins, 61 wins, 2 MVP trophies. Desperate fans thinking “This is it, we are so close” and then BANG it’s over.
July 9th, 2010 at 3:07 am
TradeTP
July 9th, 2010 at 1:57 am
I agree with your post about LeBron.
Tim in Surrey
July 9th, 2010 at 2:02 am
“With Wade, James, Bosh, Miller, and Haslem, Miami already has the basic ingredients for a Riley-style dream team. If Varnado pans out, that’s another one.”
They don’t have Miller, and they don’t have Haslem, and they literally can’t afford both & still legally fill out their roster to the minimum number of players required. Neither Miller nor Haslem are going to play for less than 5-6 million per year. Miami’s only about 12 million under the cap right now with the max contracts of the HUGE three in place. Varnado is a nice looking LATE 1st round pick, but he’s a long ways off from being a successful & dependable NBA player (if he EVER gets there). Pittman was always considered one of the biggest projects in the draft, and was projected by most to go late in the 2nd round. Again, he has some talent, but he’s a long ways from being even a player deep in their rotation (if he ever gets there). No, I wouldn’t get too excited about the Heat becoming a great team, winning the title, or even winning the East. As it stands right now, the Lakers would kick their ass. You think they have anyone to stop Gasol? Bynum? I don’t think so. And the Lakers actually have a solid supporting cast, an awesome defender in Artest, and others who have played together for several years (Fisher, Odom, etc.). The Heat have a LONG ways to go to get close to that as a TEAM. Plus, the whole attitude the HUGE three had during this free agency season was disgusting. TOO narcissistic, NO character. A team’s leaders have to have character & true grit to be able to lead a stable of relatively low-salaried players to a title. I really don’t think their stars really have what it takes in this regard. Just for example, look at LeBron’s performance in the playoffs with the Cavs this year. He tanked, and I swear it was deliberate. He did not play like a superstar. He probably already had his mind made up that he wanted to leave Cleveland. He’s afraid of failure. Not a good sign. I don’t think Bosh has ever won a playoff series. And D-Wade, had the most dominant center of at least the past 15-20 years on his team in 2006, a solid supporting cast, and they beat a perennial playoff choker: the Mavs.
And this is the closest by far that we’ve ever come to “buying” a title, if they ever win one. That is NOT good for professional basketball, and it makes large markets even more dominant than they already are.
July 9th, 2010 at 3:09 am
The East is now the power conference.
Who woulda thunk it?
July 9th, 2010 at 3:16 am
Tim in Surrey
July 9th, 2010 at 2:45 am
“It’s revealing that the other two went to HIS team. Wade will be the real leader of the Heat.”
If they all really wanted to play together (which appears to be the case), whose team could they have possibly gone to other than Wades? The Heat had the most cap space in the entire league to support all their fat ego’s, ..er… I mean, contracts.
July 9th, 2010 at 3:19 am
Lenneezz
July 9th, 2010 at 3:09 am
“The East is now the power conference.”
I wouldn’t say that. The Lakers are still the champs, and are likely to three-peat. Plus, the West is still deeper.
July 9th, 2010 at 3:43 am
So, now that the Knicks got (stole) Randolph, Azubuwke and Turiaf from GS. I think there might be a possible trade for Tony.
I could see Gali/Azubuike, Douglas/Walker & Turiaf. I don’t see Randolph going anywhere. Ny really has three or even four shooting forwards now.
Of course, Turiaf would eliminate any chance for the Big Thinker.
July 9th, 2010 at 4:10 am
I wonder about Shaq’s Spurs aspirations: maybe he wants to join an orginization that does things right? To join players who give their best and don’t quit on each other.
The way things ended in Cleveland this year had to leave a bad taste for Shaq. Take it or leave it Shaq was a part of that team, that set of moments which will be remembered. He wasn’t the team leader but given all of his Shaqness and proclaimations to help deliver a championship to Cleveland, he certainly appeared humbled by James’ lack of leadership during the Celtics series. He looked like a regular person caught up in the runaway train that LeBron was steering.
If I was involved in a poor situation like that I would seek out that which works versus that which does not.
July 9th, 2010 at 4:21 am
Jim,
First of all, Miami already HAS Miller, thanks to the trade exception they got from Minnesota. It hasn’t been officially announced, but there are reports on multiple sites about it. It’s 5 years for $30 million, which is just about exactly what Beasley’s trade exception would get you. As for Haslem, it’s not a done deal but I expect it soon. Haslem has long publicly stated how much he wants to remain with the Heat and play with Wade. Plus there is some indication that the three FAs would take less money if it would help bring in a few players. They only said they were signing with the Heat, not that they were signing for the max. Wade at least has publicly said that it’s not about maximizing money, implying that they would take a bit less money if it helped the team. You add the extra room from the salary cap to a proportional sacrifice from each of the big three and you probably have enough to keep Haslem where he would really rather be in the first place.
As for the rest of your post, first of all I’m not excited about the Heat, one way or another. And if you’ll re-read what I wrote, you are only echoing what I already said about the Lakers. Hell, with Splitter along they’ll have a tough time stopping the Spurs. They’ll also have problems with Orlando, Chicago, Boston, Portland, Houston, and several other teams with quality big men. But then again, how are any of those teams going to guard Miami? Sure, they can’t stop Dwight Howard. But do you really think Vince Carter, Matt Barnes (or whomever), and Rashard Lewis can guard Wade, LeBron, and Bosh? Please. Really only LA has a good answer, with Kobe on Wade, Artest on LeBron, and Gasol or Odom on Bosh, with Bynum to help out. So for the short term, Miami will be very tough on offense but vulnerable to interior scoring on defense. But that will change as they add players.
As for the whole “team” thing? Says who? These guys have ALREADY played together as a team, quite effectively. And they liked it so much, they arranged to do it in the NBA and not just in the Olympics. If Bosh and James had stayed where they were, they would’ve a) made as much or more money, b) been treated like heroes simply for staying put, and c) continued NOT to win championships. As it is, both are gambling their money and their public images so that they can play together and have a shot at a title. Is it really that ego-centric? Or was Joe Johnson the selfless one, taking as much money as possible and wrecking the future of his team in the process?
Let’s remember that NONE of these guys volunteered to join their original teams. The NBA uses its monopoly to force players to sign with the team that drafts them. Why do we feel a sense of betrayal when they leave those teams? Certainly LeBron was immature in the way he handled it-particularly in comparison to Durant. But all this talk about betrayal is absurd. Frankly, if I had the choice between staying in Cleveland with the hopes of an entire state perpetually on my shoulders versus moving to South Florida and playing with my friends, for a little less money, frankly I might choose Miami too. I just wouldn’t do it on TV after two months of public deliberating.
July 9th, 2010 at 4:28 am
BTW, the Clippers are signing Ryan Gomes and Randy Foye, so they’re unlikely to be in the market for Jefferson. New Jersey got Outlaw, Miami got Miller, and New York may be getting half of the Warriors. (And according to the Express-News, they were never interested anyway: http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/decision_made_spurs_plans_for_roster_can_move_forward_98087024.html?showFullArticle=y).
I’m not sure who will bid against San Antonio for him now, other than possibly Utah (who got a $13 million trade exception by signing-and-trading Boozer to Chicago). So it’s looking more and more like Jefferson will be back.
July 9th, 2010 at 4:42 am
“And this is the closest by far that we’ve ever come to “buying” a title, if they ever win one. That is NOT good for professional basketball, and it makes large markets even more dominant than they already are.”
That’s all very true. But it is the future. The Lakers and others have their blueprint for all their future dynasties. The greatest challenge to such big-market dream teams are gonna be the occasional group of several great talents drafted in subsequent years, or in both rounds, by a top-notch GM, probably with a first-time head coach who is equally gifted. A.k.a., OKC. NJ, with Pritchard on board, maybe a cross between the two, though they are a big market. Towns like Indianapolis and Cleveland, and organizations like the Hawks are just as screwed as they ever were. Life just got a lot harder for Detroit Pistons fans. The Spurs went 23 years before raising a trophy. How long will it be until the next one?
The best case scenario is that this talented trio never wins a single title. Thankfully, Orlando gave that absurd contract to R Lewis, I’d hate to sit back and watch Chris Paul and Carmelo go sign there.
July 9th, 2010 at 5:15 am
There is an outside chance that the Warriors, Magic, and Cavs might bid on RJ.
But the way things are shaping up around the league, the Spurs have the thinnest SF depth of anybody.
I don’t know what was arranged behind the scenes, if anything, or if RJ was just hedging against the next CBA and betting on the ultimate free agent summer. But someone posted earlier that the Spurs should pull a “Boozer in reverse” on RJ, AND THEY SHOULD! The down-side is any potential trade value would decrease even more. But RJ isn’t worth much more than $6M, if that, and the Spurs shouldn’t pay one nickle more than market value.
I mean if RJ made a bad decision, so what. It wouldn’t be the first time (last summer’s wedding debacle, for one, which also cost him some coin). Heck if they want to be really nice, the Spurs can offer him huge bonus incentives for each title we win with him in the fold, maybe then he’ll play with real commitment.
July 9th, 2010 at 5:50 am
Jim,
“I disagree. In the final analysis, this is a TEAM game, so unless the HUGE three are willing to each play for about 10-12 million, the HEAT have a MASSIVE challenge on their hands to assemble (afford) a TEAM of 13 players that are good enough as a group to defeat the best teams around the NBA.”
It is a team game, but I it’s well established that most of the production comes from a teams top 1-3 players. Miami has the best top 3 of anyone, so of course they need less from the rest than anyone else. Unless you disagree those 3 are the best top 3? That’s a different argument. Also, you cares about 13 players? They need to worry about the top 6 or 7. The truth is, if one of their big 3 gets hurt in the playoffs, who cares how deep they are. They put all their eggs in that basket. If all 3 are healthy, then they don’t need to be that deep.
Also, I believe that they’ll catch something of a break because players will be willing to play for somewhat less to join the hype. Lots of top teams have taken advantage of this over the years, including the Spurs. I believe they have made themselves the number 1 destination team. I think they can add a couple of decent players with the MLE and LLE (do they have this?) and fill the rest out with resigns and guys coming for the vet min.
One last thing, why is everyone so anti Lebron? I agree that it’s worse for basketball that Lebron is going to Miami. However, would we critize someone for moving to a fun job somewhere else? I’ve always thought that people should spend some time living in another place for awhile. However, we expect Lebron to spend his whole life to Ohio? I would mind getting paid millions to play basketball with my friends in Miami.
I know he likes attention and hype, but I think the media is more concerned with his legacy than he is. He is not Michael Jordan, he does not have his mentality. When he gets into the HOF he will probably not give a bitter speech despite being declared the GOAT. Why is this a bad thing?
July 9th, 2010 at 5:54 am
Oops, of course they dont’ have the MLE, LLE this season. They were way under
. Next season though.
Also, it looks like Mike Miller is signing with them.
July 9th, 2010 at 6:49 am
@bigtee34
“my friend is from elyria ohio and his heart was broke when LBJ quit last year.”
Well he won’t have to worry about that happening next yr.
July 9th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Bduran-
LeBron is a dick because it goes against everything a true FIGHTER or COMPETITOR would do. He will never be considered GOAT. Only some punk ass kid who ran when things werent going good.
Its not about moving. Its about what LeBron said he was, and turned out to be. Pussy.
I think people want their superstars to rise up to the occassion and fight. As we see now, and have seen the last (couple) playoffs LeBron is nothing more than a quitter. My second favorite team is WHOEVER PLAYS MIAMI.
Trade Parker to NY for GS players.
July 9th, 2010 at 7:46 am
Go Spurs Go!!
July 9th, 2010 at 7:47 am
Don’t forget that Wade had Shaq when he won a championship. Nobody does it without help.
I do not begrudge Lebron James’ decision to go to Miami. But the way he went about it was truly foolish. He should spend a little of his money to hire some handlers to talk him out of making stupid decisions like this. Before yesterday, there may have been plenty of fans who would root against James, but there probably weren’t too many fans who hated him. Now, he is hated, deeply, by a lot of fans in Ohio, and will be forever. That’s his home, too. He will never be able to go home without being booed. People in his home town are burning his jersey. Is all that really worth a stupid one hour publicity stunt?
If Duncan had left for Orlando way back when, he would have done so with class and dignity. I know this, because even as a young guy, Duncan had character. We have been very lucky in San Antonio, not only to have talented guys, but guys that we don’t mind having our sons and daughters look up to. If Tim had left then, Spurs fans would have been very disappointed, but we would have wished him well. James is now a villain in Cleveland, and I’m sure even a lot of people who don’t root for the Cavs have soured on him. I know I have.
Maybe he came from a rough environment, and maybe he got too famous too fast, and maybe he has never had to grow up, and maybe he is surrounded by an entourage that does nothing but stroke his ego. It’s probably all true, and I do want to take those factors into account. Still, he’s twenty-five years old now, and by now he should be a little wiser. At some point, James needs to grow up a little bit.
Yes, it’s a business. Loyalty comes in a distant second, and that’s the way it has to be. After all, a team will trade away a player in a heartbeat to improve its chances or its finances. Fine. But there’s a right way and a wrong way to go about things, and the respect for the fans who support you should also be considered. James failed on so many levels last night. Even if he wins ten rings, he will not earn my respect as a man.
July 9th, 2010 at 7:55 am
Guys let’s face it! It used to take 2 superstars to win a championship! Nowadays it takes 3 superstars and great supporting cast.
I am not opposed to Shaq coming to the spurs, I think his size and experience in invaluable. I also don’t appreciate Tiago Splitter’s attitude towards the spurs. I really think he is overrated, and he is no franchise savor! I doubt that his addition will help contend with the Lakers!
The good news is that the West is getting weaker and weaker and that means more rest for Timmy during the regular season. I am concerned about perimeter defense. I think that is more important and the big man on the pick and rolls! Our best perimeter defender is an undersized shooting guard (George), which can not guard everybody. I would try to lure in Raja Bell and make that my priority! I would give the MLE to Bell, he is a better offensive version of Bruce Bowen! Last season, we did not lose the series because of Pick & roll defense, if you remember Spurs did and excellent job of taking Amare and Steve’s pick & roll away. We just couldn’t make enough 3 pointers!
we get a guy like Raja Bell and we will be just fine! Can we compete with the Lakers? Of course we can,It is Tony Parker’s contract year, we know he’ll be playing at a much higher level. Manu if not injured doesn’t age, and we know what Timmy is going to give us. We don’t need another star, just great role players!
July 9th, 2010 at 8:14 am
Now that Cleveland will be having a fire sale;
Parker for Varajao and pieces???
July 9th, 2010 at 8:29 am
“Parker for varejao and pieces???”
I think its crazy how we all 4get how good Parker really is. Im not saying hes the best pg in the league but he is truly one of a kind. He finishes at the rim like other and alway shoots %50 and is a better passer/creator than people give him credit for. Fast as hell. there truly isnt a similar pg in the league. IF we trade TP we better get another ALL STAR!! 4get these trash package deals PLEASE
July 9th, 2010 at 8:31 am
Now that Lebron has added ‘Deserter’ and ‘Frontrunner’ to the tags of ‘Quitter’ and ‘Poor Sport’ that he already had, let us go after Cleveland’s pieces if we can, without giving up Parker.Blood in the water…Time to be sharks. Even if it does sound callous. BTW, loved Dan Gilbert’s letter reeking with attitude…But if he really wanted to destroy Lebron’s image a kind, nice letter thanking him for everything he did to Cleveland over the last 7 years would have served better
July 9th, 2010 at 8:32 am
Makes me thankful for TIMMY DUNCAN…the GOAT!!!
July 9th, 2010 at 8:35 am
this is an utter abomination.
lebron is a coward. rather than stand tall in his home state and fight off the 2 headed hydra of bosh and wade, he joined. pure cowardice. this wonderful for the NBA, but terrible for competitve sport. if lebron was good enough on his own, he would have titles already. anyone remember when tim duncan got us passed the lakers with a young tony p and a rookie manu ginobili? lebron had an ample supporting cast this year, but is a leadership lacking, self-indulging narcissit that couldn’t be depended on to carry a team when it mattered most.
lebron is an ignorant, classes slob of a human being. miami will be a reincarnation of sodom and gamorra.
if their is any justice in this world, this experiment will fail miserably.
but this is just basketball..
i hope the spurs don’t panic themselves into signing shaq and we can allow ourselves to rebuild without big band miami in mind.
i really hate this. as a fan of competitive sports, i am utterly appauled
July 9th, 2010 at 9:00 am
This may get interesting with Richard Jefferson.
Miami is no longer an option
Chicago doesn’t need him with Deng
NY doesn’t need him with their recent trades
The Clippers just signed Ryan Gomes
The Nets signed Travis Outlaw
Minny just used up their cap space with the Beasley trade
The only places I could see him going are Cleveland and Golden State. Perhaps we will simply resign him for less money. I don’t think that either the Cavs or W’s have any pieces we would want unless we just get a trade exception in return for him.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:16 am
Hobson13,
“Perhaps we will simply resign him for less money. I don’t think that either the Cavs or W’s have any pieces we would want unless we just get a trade exception in return for him.”
I’d be fine with either. The fewer options he has the cheaper we can get him and with our cap space it’s not like we have a lot of SF options.
Also, since he’s not that good, I’d take a trade exception. I’m starting to feel better about the RJ situation. Now if only we’d hear something on Splitter.
On a side note, I saw on True Hoop that all the stat geeks are predicting wins in the low to mid 60s for the Miami Big 3 and a bunch of scrubs. This will be interesting to watch. A lot of the media is saying 3 great player aren’t enough with out decent role players and the stat guys are saying they are. I guess we’ll see who’s right unless, of course, Miami makes some more Mike Miller esque signings. Then it won’t exactly be a bunch of scrubs.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:29 am
i wouldn’t be surprised if mahinmi ends up on miami. miami? mahinmi? if been his biggest fan, but if he goes over there, i’m burning my homemade #28 jersey (i don’t have a homemade #28 jersey)
July 9th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Please Miami sign Matt Bonner. Pat Riley you will love him he could be your new Kurt Rambis.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:44 am
Why are we so intent on a S&T with Jefferson? Unless he brings back several young, cheap prospects and/or draft picks, a large trade exception or a bonafide All-Star, why not simply let him walk and save the tax money? At some point, we need to get his salary off the books and now is that time.
At this point in their careers, in order for the young guys to get better (Malik, Gee, Temple, Jerrels) they need to be in an NBA setting, either playing or getting evaluated by those that make the player personel decisions. Sending them back down to the D-League will probably only make them marginally better (you don’t get a whole lot better by playing with/against guys who are on your level or inferior; the improvement comes when you play with/against guys who are better than you), whereas in an NBA setting day in day out, they’ll be afforded the opportunty to get drastically better. We’ve spent a lot of time and money developing talent in Austin. At some point, we need to figure out if it is worth it. Sink or swim time.
If I was making the decision, I’d let RJ go and replace them with a combination of Anderson, Hairston, Gee, and Temple. Based on RJ’s production last year, and the production of the young guys in the D-League and the NBA last season, I think as a unit, they can more than make up for the loss of RJ.
The last thing I would want to do is a S&T for another long term, guaranteed contract for a marginal player. And based on the fact that acquiring an All-Star for RJ probably isn’t in the cards, I think it wise to choose the cheapest option, while also getting younger.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:49 am
I want Tim to finish with more rings than Shaq, so Shaq can’t be on our squad when we win the next two.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:49 am
I don’t understand the doubt of the Heat being able to compete for a championship.
After Lebron on the Cavs, who could help him win? Mo Williams? please, Jamison? no way, Varejo? a role player. It is easier to get a championship with stars and then add role players. The Spurs have done that for a decade with the big 3.
Role players are a dime a dozen. That’s why Travis Fisher playing along Shaq was made to seem like a superstar (see the free agent contract he signed with the Celtics at the time).
Heat have Mike Miller, Jason Williams, Udonis Haslem, Shaun Livingston and plenty more hungry players looking to join. Maybe even Shaq.
I’ll be surprised if the Heat don’t eventually win a championship.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:52 am
How do you stop Miami now? Zone defense. LeBron and Wade can’t shoot the 3 ball. Pack it in, be physical with Bosh and take him out of the game, then let LeBron and Wade shoot 3′s all night. There’s no way they can win more than 45 games that way.
July 9th, 2010 at 10:22 am
Miami has already sold out season tickets. They were 15th in ticket sales last year.
July 9th, 2010 at 10:22 am
Check out my thoughts on the fallout from LeBron’s decision, the Randolph-Lee trade and NBA Summer League.
sportsaccordingtome.com
July 9th, 2010 at 10:32 am
So I heard from a friend about a quote that was said by Coach Pop. I think t went something like this I…. ” I Can’t get you much money but I can guarantee a championship”. Did Pop really say this and who was this directed to? Also, is there somewhere I can read about it or see the video?
July 9th, 2010 at 11:28 am
Watching all this crap go down over the last day sure makes me glad to be a Spurs fan. What a great team, a great star in TD and a great orginization.
One of the best reads on this mess http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmddE3QcJVWok.xuRYYlgXq8vLYF?slug=aw-lebrondecision070910
July 9th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
Tim in Surrey
July 9th, 2010 at 4:21 am
Let’s put it this way, I don’t call what LeBron did “immature”. I call it a “fear of failure”, I call it “selfish” (he’ll have plenty of tax advantages in Florida), I call it “narcissistic”, I call it “heartless” (his “Truman Show” number), and I call it exploiting and brandishing a pathetic trend in professional basketball, which if continued, could end up corrupting the entire league.
As far as salaries, all three of them have been promised MAX contracts, which means the Heat have to dedicate close to 23 mil. per year to each player over the next 6 years. That will inevitably crowd out other talented players that simply won’t play for a salary considerably under their market value to play with three megalomaniacs. Nobody knows yet how the deals will be structured, but even if they’re back-loaded to some extent, the Heat have just 58 million to deal with this season. The Heat basically got rid of Beasley to open up an additional 4-5 million to sign other players, but my understanding is that “trade exceptions” can only be used to acquire other players through trade that are already under contract, and cannot be used to sign other free agents.
Thus, as an example, if the HUGE three agree to play for 15 mil. each in year one, Miller is paid 6 million, and Chalmers is collecting the 1 million called for under his contract, that leaves just 6 million to sign at least 8 players. If they have a trade exception in the Beasley deal, as you claim, then they can use that to trade for another player that has a contract at the value of the trade exemption or lower at any time over the next year. Either way, Miami could be in a salary cap mess for awhile, particularly with the new CBA on the horizon. Too much stardom can be overrated, and ultimately backfire.
Anyway, I say good luck fielding a “real” team (not really!).
July 9th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Tim in Surrey
July 9th, 2010 at 4:28 am
I’m not discounting your general point in this post, but that article you cited was quoting Matt Bonner’s agent as its main source. Not what I would call an objective source.
td4life
July 9th, 2010 at 4:42 am
“That’s all very true. But it is the future.”
No, we ALL make our own futures. The future is not indelibly carved into a stone pallet. The league needs to come together and make appropriate changes in the CBA to get a grip on all this nonsense. It’s going to ruin the sport.
“The best case scenario is that this talented trio never wins a single title.”
Yes, that would set a good precedent.
“There is an outside chance that the Warriors, Magic, and Cavs might bid on RJ.”
I agree.
“But RJ isn’t worth much more than $6M, if that, and the Spurs shouldn’t pay one nickle more than market value.”
Agreed.
“It is a team game, but I it’s well established that most of the production comes from a teams top 1-3 players.”
“Production” is not all she wrote when it comes to winning championships. For example, many of the role players during the Spur championship years were simply irreplaceable (e.g., Horry, Bowen, etc.), and these were teams whose production was dominated by a handful of players (e.g., TD, TP, Manu, Admiral, S. Jax).
“They need to worry about the top 6 or 7.”
No, they need to “worry” about at least the top 8-9. You HAVE to factor in injury issues, etc. You have to account for bad luck as much as possible. It’s part of how teams end up persevering to a championship.
“Also, I believe that they’ll catch something of a break because players will be willing to play for somewhat less to join the hype.”
Who wants to play under-market value with a trio of megalomaniacs? Do we all want the easy, bought & paid for way to a supposed title opportunity? Have we really turned into a league of sycophants and enablers just to get a shot at the limelight?
“I think they can add a couple of decent players with the MLE and LLE (do they have this?) and fill the rest out with resigns and guys coming for the vet min.”
No, teams under the cap DO NOT have MLE or LLE’s. They are likely to have about 6 million to sign players 6 through 13, with the standard minimum being about 600k for a young 2nd round or undrafted player with no real NBA experience, and 1.4 million for an older mostly washed up vet.
“One last thing, why is everyone so anti Lebron? I agree that it’s worse for basketball that Lebron is going to Miami. However, would we critize someone for moving to a fun job somewhere else? I’ve always thought that people should spend some time living in another place for awhile. However, we expect Lebron to spend his whole life to Ohio? I would mind getting paid millions to play basketball with my friends in Miami.”
I guess moral relativism has finally taken over our culture. Your comment is to far out their for me to explain any further.
July 9th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
TradeTP
July 9th, 2010 at 7:32 am
“My second favorite team is WHOEVER PLAYS MIAMI.”
I laughed at that one TradeTp. Nice one!
July 9th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
DieHardSpur
July 9th, 2010 at 8:14 am
Now that Cleveland will be having a fire sale;
Parker for Varajao and pieces???
Well, I don’t know, but Cleveland should be one of the teams that we’re looking at for trade partners.
Hobson13
July 9th, 2010 at 9:00 am
“The only places I could see him going are Cleveland and Golden State.”
Perhaps Orlando is a possibility as well.
bduran
July 9th, 2010 at 9:16 am
“On a side note, I saw on True Hoop that all the stat geeks are predicting wins in the low to mid 60s for the Miami Big 3 and a bunch of scrubs.”
They obviously have NO idea what they’re talking about.
“I guess we’ll see who’s right unless, of course, Miami makes some more Mike Miller esque signings. Then it won’t exactly be a bunch of scrubs.”
They won’t have the money to.
July 9th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Tyler
July 9th, 2010 at 9:44 am
“Why are we so intent on a S&T with Jefferson? Unless he brings back several young, cheap prospects and/or draft picks, a large trade exception or a bonafide All-Star, why not simply let him walk and save the tax money?”
I’m fine with letting him walk if I have to. But I would much prefer this part of what you said: “brings back several young, cheap prospects and/or draft picks, a large trade exception….” Otherwise we’re very likely to be even slightly worse than we were last year, which is not too appealing to me.
“We’ve spent a lot of time and money developing talent in Austin. At some point, we need to figure out if it is worth it. Sink or swim time.”
Apparently Pop doesn’t think they’re capable of being at least solid rotation players, based on their performances in various venues, and in various roles. Players don’t always get a chance to play a lot of NBA game time before player personnel decision is made. Thus, at this point, we appear to have two choices that make any sense: (1) starting playing them for more regular minutes in the 9-man rotation; or (2) waive them, or trade them. I’m not convinced that any of them offer enough to either start or be a main rotation player at the SG/SF spot, and in my view, we must upgrade at that position to have any chance at truly contending for the WCF championship. Thus, I’m more interested in making deals now for players that should clearly upgrade our roster, as opposed to making money-saving decisions as it pertains to RJ. He fits better with a number of other teams, and we still may be able to unload him in a sign & trade deal with teams like Cleveland, GSW, or Orlando. I just hope we can find the right suitor before too long.
“The last thing I would want to do is a S&T for another long term, guaranteed contract for a marginal player.”
Fine, but you seem resigned to the idea that there are only “marginal” players within our grasp through free agency and trade. I don’t believe that to be the case. And the SF by committee idea is not going to allow us to contend in the near-term, and probably not even in the long-term. It will allow us to essentially stand in place for too long under the guise of organic development. It is over-worrying about the owners money, and over-relying on “hope”, rather than taking an appropriate level of risk by engaging in a fully proactive approach.
lvmainman
July 9th, 2010 at 9:49 am
“After Lebron on the Cavs, who could help him win? Mo Williams? please, Jamison? no way, Varejo? a role player.”
Let me ask you a question: How the hell did that team win 127 games in the last 2 years? Don’t even feed into LeBron’s massive ego and suggest that their wins were mainly about him. I’m willing to bet that the Cavs win at least 45 games this year without LeBron, 50+ the second year. However great Kobe is, the Lakers would win 45+ games without him as well. The idea that “stars” are so great is ridiculous. It’s a TEAM sport. Cleveland comes nowhere close to winning those 127 games with LeBron, Dick, & Harry…. Let’s get real here. LeBron is a great player, but the hype over his value to a team winning, especially winning it all, is way too much. The same with Wade & Bosh. Stars AND very good “role” players are absolutely necessary to win a championship. Now that he has his “stars” next to him he better win, right? Don’t count on it. They’re a long ways away. The Lakers would still kick their ass, probably win in 5 or 6 games — as it stands right now, with the money they have left to sign a shooter (Miller, I guess), some 2nd rd. picks with no experience, and some washed-up vets. Good luck. This whole experiment will just prove how important and uncommon it is to have “key” role players to win a championship. Think of Horry, Bowen, Kerr, Barry, etc. Those guys don’t grow on trees, and they aren’t very cheap.
“Role players are a dime a dozen.”
NOT THE GOOD ONES THAT WIN YOU CHAMPIONSHIPS!
“Jason Williams, Udonis Haslem, Shaun Livingston and plenty more hungry players looking to join. Maybe even Shaq.”
Most of these players are not very good anymore due to age or injury, and most of them are not going to sign with the Heat.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
thats freakin awesome - tim, splitter, anderson shaq, parker, ginobli, jefferson?, hill + whatever
i like our chances
July 9th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
I don’t.
July 9th, 2010 at 10:47 pm
bduran
July 9th, 2010 at 5:50 am
“It is a team game, but I it’s well established that most of the production comes from a teams top 1-3 players.”
“Production” is not all she wrote when it comes to winning championships. For example, many of the role players during the Spur championship years were simply irreplaceable (e.g., Horry, Bowen, etc.), and these were teams whose production was dominated by a handful of players (e.g., TD, TP, Manu, Admiral, S. Jax).
“They need to worry about the top 6 or 7.”
No, they need to “worry” about at least the top 8-9. You HAVE to factor in injury issues, etc. You have to account for bad luck as much as possible. It’s part of how teams end up persevering to a championship.
“Also, I believe that they’ll catch something of a break because players will be willing to play for somewhat less to join the hype.”
Who wants to play under-market value with a trio of megalomaniacs? Do we all want the easy, bought & paid for way to a supposed title opportunity? Have we really turned into a league of sycophants and enablers just to get a shot at the limelight?
“I think they can add a couple of decent players with the MLE and LLE (do they have this?) and fill the rest out with resigns and guys coming for the vet min.”
No, teams under the cap DO NOT have MLE or LLE’s. They are likely to have about 6 million to sign players 6 through 13, with the standard minimum being about 600k for a young 2nd round or undrafted player with no real NBA experience, and 1.4 million for an older mostly washed up vet.
“One last thing, why is everyone so anti Lebron? I agree that it’s worse for basketball that Lebron is going to Miami. However, would we critize someone for moving to a fun job somewhere else? I’ve always thought that people should spend some time living in another place for awhile. However, we expect Lebron to spend his whole life to Ohio? I would mind getting paid millions to play basketball with my friends in Miami.”
I guess moral relativism has finally taken over our culture. Your comment is to far out their for me to explain any further.
July 10th, 2010 at 9:06 am
Shaq will probably join the Heat again.
Imagine if their starting 5 was Jason Williams, Dwayne Wade, Lebron James, Chris Bosh, and Shaquille O’Neal!!
They’ve already got Mario Chalmers, Mike Miller, Joel Anthony, Dexter Pittman, Jarvis Varnado, and D’Sean Butler on the bench.
The Heat have to be the NBA favorites next year.
July 10th, 2010 at 10:50 am
lvmainman
July 10th, 2010 at 9:06 am
“Shaq will probably join the Heat again.
Imagine if their starting 5 was Jason Williams, Dwayne Wade, Lebron James, Chris Bosh, and Shaquille O’Neal!!
They’ve already got Mario Chalmers, Mike Miller, Joel Anthony, Dexter Pittman, Jarvis Varnado, and D’Sean Butler on the bench.
The Heat have to be the NBA favorites next year.”
BALONEY!
You guys are in to “star worship” and imaginary teams. Stop buying the hype, and start thinking.
July 10th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
If Shaq & Timmy are both in at the end of a close game for the Silver and Black, which big guy does the opposing team foul?
Sorry, I couldna resist… seriously though, we’d been saying all last season that the Spurs needed another 7 footer to help Timmy and their defense. I think the team could make it work with Shaq, and his slow foot speed may not be as evident with the Spurs than it was with Phoenix or Cleveland. Our fast-break pretty much consists of one or two players on rocket fuel anyway…
But if the Spurs sign Splitter, adding Shaq as well would make for some interesting decisions about who gets the minutes. The good news would be that Timmy and Shaq should be well-rested come playoff time…
July 11th, 2010 at 12:28 am
Shaq should be
SIGNED!!!
AS IN REALLY SIGNED!
Sign TIAGO SPLITTER for the mid-level
then DONT SIGN RICHARD JEFFERSON
then SIGN SHAQ ONEAL! THEN ANOTHER SMALL FORWARD…….. it can be TRACY MACGRADY or other Small Forwards who is well-known in scoring and in defense like T-MAC…
and if it will happen the SAN ANTONIO SPURS WILL HAVE A 76% in winning over the new MIAMI HEAT, LOS ANGELES LAKERS, AND THE BOSTON CELTICS!
I hope you will do my comments!
DO IT
DO IT
DO IT!
IT will really make the Spurs Fans wild then the other teams amazed/ scared to SAN ANTONIO SPURS
JUST
DO
THIS
COMMENT
RC BUFORD
AND MR. Buldenhozer!
DO IT
PLEASE
DO IT!
July 11th, 2010 at 12:44 am
Tim Duncan, Shak, and while we are at it David Robinson. Now that would be a great line-up
July 11th, 2010 at 10:12 am
I never thought about Shaq coming to the Spurs. If the price is right and we don’t have to sacrifice anyone or especially Splitter, go ahead an let him finish his career with the Spurs. No state income tax. The Spurs with Splitter aboard suddenly become a big team with height. All fat boy Shaq Can do is rebound and put a few back in but rebounds with a taller team, that can still run could really help the Spurs. I just don’t think Pop will want to go for it because he’d immmediately put Shaq on a diet but a leaner Shaq may surprise everyone. I doubt Shaq has the resolve to drop 25-50 pounds. There are better players out there to be had by the Spurs and Shaq would be more of a distraction that’d what he brings to the game.
Any team that will be able to beat the Heat consistantly will be celebrated around the league! A taller, 3 point shooting team, that can play better defense, is just what the Spurs need. GO SPURS GO!
July 12th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Shaquille is at the end of his career. Who needs him?
July 12th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Even though Shaq is at the end of his career, he still has some value that he could bring to a team. It would be funny if the Spurs still ended up with Shaq, even after signing Splitter.
July 12th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
I wouldn’t put it past them to still sign him, they have been in talks.
July 12th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
I didn’t mean to have so many posts, but for the right price Shaq could be an insurance policy for us at center. Besides, even though we got Splitter, he still won’t be enough. We still need another big body to be able to help us against the lakers.
July 12th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
Why would you want Shaq when Lou Amundson, Ilgauskas, J. Anthony, & J. Jefferies are still available? Not only that, do you “Shaq guys” have a plan to usefully utilize a SIX man front line?
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